New Cue Sheet Committee

[Zonda]

Tuesday at the social we established a Cue Sheet Committe to help prepare and revise routes. ScottC is helping spearhead this effort. Several people volunteered (o.k., with a little arm twisting)...:D

The CSC Team is:

Mike H.
CharleyM3
Jay
Tracy
Kelly??
RickF - can help verify directions
Scott
Me
Karen

I can't find my paper where I wrote down the names. If I left you off, added you by mistake or you want to join, please let me know.

The purpose of the committe is to revise routes to correct problem roads, add rest stops, provide GPS routes and have a variety of routes available for us. Thanks

[CharleyM3]

Let me be the first to confirm that I volunteered.

[KarenG]

i'll volunteer to help, if needed. just let me know. K

[TracyW]

:p My arm was twisted

[Zonda]

Thanks guys. Yes, Tracy, your arm was twisted a bit...;) Mike H. has already started working on cue sheets for Wendell. I hope the weather warms up!!

[TracyW]

So, what are our goals for the cue sheets? Simply 20,40,60 miles?

[Zonda]

So, what are our goals for the cue sheets? Simply 20,40,60 miles?

Scott can add to this, but I see it as having several groups of routes available for rides for beginners, D and C paced riders.

Early spring probably 10, 20, 30, 40 mile routes for each ride. Late summer, 20, 35-40, 50-62, 75-100 mile routes for each ride. That might be overly optimistic, but I hope we can offer something shorter for beginners all year and something longer for anyone else interested.

Beginners filter in all year, but July and August are the busiest months for beginners. Maybe the Tour de France sparks interest?? This is not a good time for new riders due to the heat and that we have all been riding all year. Still haven't figured out how to deal with this, but a lot of new riders join our group then and need shorter routes available.

Anyone else with visions for the CSC team or cue sheets?

[Winnie]

Formally requesting that cue sheets be posted in more than one format.

[Michelle W]

There is a free program at http://pdf995.com/ that allows you to create a pdf file. This might be helpful to those on the cue sheet committee to provide in a format that most should be able to access and print

[skiffrun]

If you haven't made cue sheets before, there is a decent primer on cue sheet design one of the triangle club / riding group websites, but I can't remember where / can't find it now. I'm not on the committee (& don't want to be), but suggest:

Use Excel - it is easy to modify to make a route longer (or shorter) & most would have access. Excel can add and subtract to get the intermediate distances to add up correctly. The primer says to record the total distance @ turns & let the program determine the distance between turns - something about an out & back course should have the same total miles in each direction.

Don't alternate colors of the lines - that makes it hard for some to read.

Draw boxes around each item on each line. Excel great at this.

Design long and narrow - so can be folded / turned over inside a protective plastic envelope.

Can always import (or whatever) into / onto a .pdf file for those that don't have Excel or those that need pretty more than need accurate info.

[Zonda]

Formally requesting that cue sheets be posted in more than one format.

What format do you prefer?

Would you like to volunteer to be on the committee to convert Excel files to an alternative format? :rolleyes:

[Winnie]

PDF will work. I do not have Excel. I do not think I can convert any file without it.

[Zonda]

PDF will work. I do not have Excel. I do not think I can convert any file without it.

You should be able to convert it to pdf from the free program link Michelle mentioned without needing to have Excel.

[Winnie]

I thought that was simply a "free" version of Adobe Acrobat, which I already have.

What about a Word file, since they seem to be convertible to almost anything?

[JayC]

You could download Open Office and use that. It works with Excel spreadsheet files perfectly and it's free.

[Winnie]

I don't want a lot of software cluttering up my computer which I am only going to use to access cue sheets.

[RickF]

I can convert Excel to PDF. Since Zonda already volunteered me for the que sheet committee, my contribution will be to convert the Excel sheets to PDF and post the PDF files.

[RickF]

You should be able to convert it to pdf from the free program link Michelle mentioned without needing to have Excel.The link Michelle pointed to is a free PDF maker. Once installed, that program acts like a printer driver. Anything you send to that driver comes out as a PDF file. You still would need something that can read the Excel file before you can make a PDF file from it. As I said in my previous note, I am willing to convert any Excel, Word, or text file to PDF and post the PDF format.

[RickF]

Team GSK has some good guidelines for cue sheets and an example Excel template on their web site:
http://team.gsk.com/index.asp?fuseaction=team.rides#five

If people who come up with the routes want to send me the information, I can put it into the Excel and PDF file and make them look pretty.

[Winnie]

Thanks Rick.

[Zonda]

Thanks Rick for volunteering your time to do this. And, thanks for sharing the GSK info about cue sheets. That is very helpful.

I appreciate all who are stepping up to share the workload. The group has gotten so large that it takes more people to meet the needs of the group.

[RickF]

Here are the four Wendell routes in PDF format. I have added a column for how long between each turn. Let me know if these work, and I will go back and do the others or change these to meet everyone's needs.

Jay, if you like these, you can move or copy them to the ride cue sheet section. I was not sure how to do that.

Regards,
Rick

[CharleyM3]

I can ride one of the routes next weekend, weather permitting. Probably the 40 since I need a warmup for the frostbite tour.

Current conditions where I am is 4` winds out of the west at 10. Forecast, 13` winds from he SSW at 10-20. Y'all enjoy the ride!

[TracyW]

So the burning question right now is how do we organize these files onto the site? We will most likely have a *.crs file, a *.xls and a *.pdf for each. I guess possibly a gmap (or similar) also.

[RickF]

So the burning question right now is how do we organize these files onto the site? We will most likely have a *.crs file, a *.xls and a *.pdf for each. I guess possibly a gmap (or similar) also.That is a good question, Tracy. I guess Jay is the resident expert on organization. One thought I had would be to have a topic for each route with the three or four (or however many formats there might be) links under each route. As I said when I posted the PDF files, I can make the files, but I do not know what the best way to post them would be.

The other thing we need is a naming convention so that it is easy to recognize all of the files that pertain to the same route and all of the distance options for the same starting points.

[TracyW]

My opinion: I think it would be nice if we could have some sort of header for each area. Sorta like

CLAYTON
Karens25.crs
Karens25.xls
so on
North Raleigh
BlueJaypoint20.crs
Bluejaypoint40.crs
CycleSpokenHere-Cary
You get the picture.

I don't know if there would be an advantage to doing it this way or even if it could. If I felt like riding up to North Raleigh some Sunday (or whenever) this would enable me to chose a route easily.

[RickF]

Here are the Excel and PDF files for Jay's 48 mile loop that leaves from Saunders Rd and Hwy 50 in Garner. As time permits, I will work convert the other routes that are posted under "Slow Spokes Cue Sheets" to a standardized Excel and PDF format. If you do not like the format I have for this route, let me know what you would prefer. I do not have strong attachments to any one format, but I think it is easier for everyone if all of the cue sheets are in the same format.

Regards,
Rick

[JayC]

The simpliest way to do it would be just to have a forum for cue sheets and start a thread for each route, add the cue sheets and lock it. Using the Download manager, its going to be a little more difficult because you cant attach multiple files for each entry.

[RickF]

The simpliest way to do it would be just to have a forum for cue sheets and start a thread for each route, add the cue sheets and lock it. Using the Download manager, its going to be a little more difficult because you cant attach multiple files for each entry.
If you create the forum, I can create a thread for each route and upload the PDF and Excel files. I have standard format Excel and PDF files for all of the routes that have been posted so far (except for Karen's loop - I cannot read Gamin files). Someone else can put up the Gamin files and any other format files people need, then you can lock the threads.

[JayC]

Well, the problem with that is it makes the Links and Downloads manager basically moot. I dont mind doing that but it will make cue sheet management a bit more clunky if any other groups decide they want to use this forum.

[Zonda]

My first choice is similar to Tracy's suggestion. If I'm looking for a ride in Clayton, I would like to open one thread and find all routes for Clayton rather than opening a thread for each route. Then have a subsection of routes for excel, pdf and crs. See below. Any pitfalls to this?

Clayton Routes

Excel
Karen20.xls
Karen40.xls
Jay45.xls

PDF
Karen20.pdf
Karen40.pdf
Jay45.pdf

CRS
Karen20.?
Karen40.?
Jay45.?

[JayC]

Thats way too much work. Youre talking about a lot of nested forums. It would be a nightmare for the most part to navigate.

[RickF]

Well, the problem with that is it makes the Links and Downloads manager basically moot. I dont mind doing that but it will make cue sheet management a bit more clunky if any other groups decide they want to use this forum.I am open to other suggestions.

[JayC]

Rick, I think you and I are on the same page and Zonda is trying to complicate it :)

[RickF]

Rick, I think you and I are on the same page and Zonda is trying to complicate it :)
Just tell me where you want me to post the files. Alternatively, I can e-mail them to you, and you can post them.

[Zonda]

O.K. then you and Rick figure it out.

[TracyW]

I think we should have a website just for cue sheets :D

OK, I have no suggestions

[JayC]

Okay.. let me ask this.. this will help me get a better understanding of what we're trying to do.

Do we want a general "Cue Sheet" section where cue sheet files can be added or do we want a SS specific cue sheet section. Personally I think a general one would be better.

I'm going to restrict posting access to people who are doing the cue sheets and CRS files. Everyone will be able to reply to threads but only a few people will actually be able to start threads.

[KarenG]

my vote is for general. if it gets too complicated, the whiners will start coming out of the woodwork :)

[Zonda]

General cue sheet section

[Winnie]

Yeah, a shame about those whiners. If it weren't for them, we wouldn't have to deal with the legitimate concerns of the many interfering with the wishes of the few.

[KarenG]

for those who ride every weekend and just about every day during the week (summer time), a general section seems to be more practical than a bunch of nested stuff.....

[JayC]

Let me put up an example and see what everyone thinks.

[esther-l]

Google offers free web-based software for reading .xls spreadsheet files.
See
http://docs.google.com/

You will need to create a google account, if you don't have a google/gmail account already.
I realize that Rick has volunteered to convert files, but this is an option if there's a bottleneck, or if you want to look at an .xls file from some other source.
Esther ( estheraauw@gmail.com )

[williamtash]

I like what I saw in the cue sheet section looks like you have some good routes out there. To all that have posted thanks you are doing a great job. I think I like the idea of a general site.

[RickF]

The general site should start taking shape tonight.

[RickF]

I have several routes posted in Excel and PDF format in the Cue Sheet forum (http://www.trianglecycling.com/forumdisplay.php?f=27). If you have Garmin files that you would like me to attach to these routes, please e-mail them to me, and I will add them to the appropriate routes. Use the sticky thread at the top of the Cue Sheet forum to comment on the way that section is organized.

[CharleyM3]

Okay, I'm back in town and still trying to get caught up on the discussion. Rick are you doing the converting to PDF and XLS files? How do you want the data?
I can also use the queue sheets to generate routes in Garmin gdb or gpx files.

Do you have routes that you want ridden?

[RickF]

I have been taking Excel, Word, and HTML files and converting them to a standard Excel format and making a PDF file from that. I post the Excel and PDF files. I do not have a Garmin (or any other GPS) system, but if someone sends me the appropriate file for any of the routes, I can attach the file to the appropriate route.

I have not been involved with creating new routes. I have just been trying to standardize the way the cue sheets are presented.

[CharleyM3]

I like the general site. Looks good, easy to find stuff. Are you interested in organized, paid rides?

[RickF]

I have posted some of those event rides (e.g., Biking with the Band, Tarwheels Century, AIDS Walk and Ride, Sea Gull Century, etc) on the calendar, but not in our cue sheet forum. If it is good route in the area that others might want to ride on their own (outside of the organized ride), I do not see why we would not want to post the route on our forum.

[CharleyM3]

Works for me as long as there are not legal issues.
I'll get you what I have.

[Zonda]

Looks good! Thanks Rick!