Update on Zonda

[JayC]

Jon called me on the way home after he had talked to Zonda. They've checked her for head or neck injuries and she has none. She is complaining of shoulder pain but Jon said she went over the handlebars so that was probably the point of impact. She also has the usual roadrash. Im not sure to what degree. They think she has a mild conscussion but at this point I dont know if they were keeping her overnight or not. She is at Rex.

[Michelle W]

Hey Everyone. On behalf of Zonda, let me thank you for your concern and a special thanks to all of those that made things happen after the accident. As Jay posted, Zonda does not have any neck or head injuries and that is a very good thing. Her shoulder was xrayed. I'm not a doctor, but she was able to move it and use it and didn't complain of any pain with the shoulder prior to them taking her off the back board. When the rolled her on that shoulder to remove the back board, that is when she felt the pain. I'm hoping its just bruised or straianed. The results of shoulder xray had not come back before I had to leave. She is still in the ER and they only allow 1 person to be there with her. I was able to sneak in for some of the time, but the nurses finally asked me to leave. Her sister IS with her and will be staying a few days. Not sure if she will be kept overnight or released after an observation period. That had not been discussed as they were still doing their assessment when I left.

I consider it a good sign that she wanted to know where her bike was and that she was pissed they had to cut off all her cycling clothes.. including her new SS jersey. I would suggest that before a gift certificate is purchased for a bike shop that we ask Zonda if she would prefer the gift certicate or to be able to order from catalogs?? Everyone has their own personal prefrences. The contributions could also go toward the purchase of another SS jersey.

Her sister is going to call me with any updates and I'll post them here when I hear from her. Thanks again everyone. Be safe out there.

[JayC]

I hope she had a waiver on file.

[Michelle W]

Sorry for not calling those that had asked for a call, it was much easier to post it all here for everyone to see.

[williamtash]

Ok Jay I forgot about them having to cut off the shirt that might be am idea what does everyone what to do I will collect the money The shirts are $58.00 let me know what you all want to do

[Michelle W]

I say we collect the $ and let Zonda decide what to do with it. Could be presented to her as cashiers check/money order with a card and the names of those that contributed on the inside. Just my 2 cents worth.

[RickF]

I say we collect the $ and let Zonda decide what to do with it. Could be presented to her as cashiers check/money order with a card and the names of those that contributed on the inside. Just my 2 cents worth.
That sounds like a good idea. As large as our group is becoming, we should be able to give her enough for both a helmet and a jersey.

[williamtash]

I am going to get card and cashiers check that way it looks nice and everyone that gives will have their name in it. That way she can get what ever bike stuff she wants with it. But she can only get cycling things

[Gerard]

Let us know where to send the contribution.
She is a lucky lady if she has no other injuries.

Gerard

[williamtash]

Slow spokes I am collecting money for us to get Zonda a get well we are thinking of you gift If you would like to contribute

Email williamtash@yahoo.com

Then I will e mail you back with my address

[Pugslyyy]

I decided not to go by the hospital, since Michelle said they were limiting visitors (maybe because of the norovirus outbreak). I'm glad that Zonda's sister is able to be there with her - no fun to be injured and alone in the hospital.

I guess today is a good reminder of why we ride together - there's a certain inevitability to some sort of road mishap, no matter how careful you are. When it happens (a puncture, breakdown, or worse) it's always good to have friends around to help you out.

[TracyW]

Zonda called me a little while ago. They are keeping her overnight for observation, but she is fighting it. Other than that, her face is swollen up and they have her on some pretty good pain killers :).

She also said that she has no idea what happened. She remembers getting in the drop and that's pretty much it.

She was a little upset that they cut her jersey so I told her we were collecting money to buy her another............Sorry if you didn't want her to know right now.

[MikeD]

Was there anyone who actually saw what happened? Or was Zonda riding sweep ? Did she endo into the road or the shoulder of the road? Jen and I are really sorry to hear that this happened but are very glad to hear she has no serious injuries. Our thoughts are with you Zonda.

[TracyW]

she said someone was behind her but she couldn't think of who it was.

[Dajuan]

Count me in for the donation. I've only been riding for 3 weeks, but I couldn't image not seeing Zonda lead us off. She truly is fabulous. I pray she recovers quickly and takes it easy.

[JayC]

I must just suck.. she doesnt answer the phone for me and didnt call me back. My feelings are hurt.

[sportingfool]

Sandy,
Count me in! You can e-mail your mailing address to me at andrea.daniel@pgnmail.com

[JayC]

Sandy,
Count me in! You can e-mail your mailing address to me at andrea.daniel@pgnmail.com


Best.. avatar... ever!

[TracyW]

I must just suck.. she doesnt answer the phone for me and didnt call me back. My feelings are hurt.
She said not to say anything.:D

[Zonda]

Hey everyone,

I got home from the hospital about 11:00 last night. Sorry information was so sketchy. It took forever to get checked out for head injuries, broken bones, etc. Jay got a nice pic of the road rash on my face sent to him to make up for not returning his calls...:) Also, no liability waiver on file other than the one for NCBC membership. MMhh...!

I have no idea what happened. I think I was riding with Ann and someone else. I remember moving to the left, going to the drops for a fast descent. The next thing I remember is being put in the ambulance and asking the EMT if Rex Hospital was Blue Cross Blue Shield provider...:) Was coherent enought to worry about being sent to a non-provider!!

Ann or anyone, did you see what happended?

I'm glad I don't recall scraping my face across the pavement or my knees, elbows or shoulders. My neck is so sore it hurts to hold up my head. I must have hyper extended my writsts because I can hardly move them. My left shoulder is very sore and scraped up. The doc recommended I not go back to work until Thursday. I think I will have to take off because I feel like I've been hit by a truck.

My Giro Atmos helmet cracked and is unusable. They said it was a good helmet and saved me. Also, I had all my personal info on me in my front pocket, driver's license, health insurance card, list of emergency contacts, drug allergies, DOB, SSN. It was very helpful to the EMTs to pass on to the hospital on the way there.

Not sure how to care for the road rash. I got about 3 different versions last night from the emergency room personnel. Any suggestions? I might have to see a plastic surgeon to find out how to avoid scarring on my face from the deep abrasions. My guess is my face hit first :eek:

It is so nice of you to offer to take a collection. I was very upset that they cut off all my clothes and made me wear one of those skimpy gowns with 50 degree temperatures in ER. I lost my helmet, my favorite pair of tights, my new red underarmour, my new SS jersey and a new sports bra, gasp! All cut to shreads. I did get them to spare my neon vest, but it has two big holes in back! You don't have to collect any money for me. I'll replace those items eventually, but I do appreciate the thought.

Guess that's it. Sorry for the delay of info.

[TracyW]

Glad you're ok. It's an awful reminder of exactly how quickly things can go wrong.

[Zonda]

Pic of road rash on my face, http://www.trianglecycling.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=183&c=5

Needless to say, this hurts!!:eek:

[RickF]

For the road rash, Neosporin ointment, and do not go out into the sun, even briefly, without a high SPF sunscreen. Neosporin has been shown in clinical trials to reduce the time to heal and to reduce scar formation.

Exposure to UV light will cause the healing tissue to become darker than the surrounding skin. Sunscreen will help to prevent that. The discoloration will fade over time, but without the sunscreen, it might take a couple of years for it to fade. It is best to prevent the discoloration in the first place.

[CharleyM3]

Wow. I'm so very sorry Zonda. My prayers are with you.

[TracyW]

Arnica will help with the bruising and muscle soreness.

Of course, as always, check with the pharmacist concerning interaction with other medications/pain killers.

[CharleyM3]

What repairs need to be done to your bike Zonda? It needs to be ready to ride again when you are.

[williamtash]

Just for the record everyone we are doning the gift even though I have talk to Zonda and she told me not to . This what our group is all about this is the person that made the slow spokes happen and a friend. I hope that we also would do it foe anyone else in the group that this happens to. Thanks to all that are donating I will let you all know the amount we it is all here. Each person will have their name on card.

[KarenG]

Hey Zonda,

I'm really glad to hear that you are relatively ok. My biggest question: girl, how's the bike?? (you know I'm just kidding :) ). I, like many others, have heard of different things to do for the road rash, so I won't give any advice there...I'm sure there will be something you can do to avoid any major scaring. Damn. What a way to get a reminder out to all our riders on the necessity of helmets, ID, and the like. I left home yesterday without my Road ID, but I did have my DL and insurance card. Scary, because some of those decents were rough and I was usually tucked to go as fast as possible.

And, don't you worry a bit about the helmet & jersey...your peeps are gonna take care of you. It's the least we can do. I hope you feel better soon, but I know it's gonna be a while most likely.

Please let us know if there's anything we can help you with as you recover. I'm speaking for myself, but I'm sure that others feel the same way and will help you any way we can. Just let us know. That's what your friends are for.

Take care and keep us informed of your recovery.

Karen.

[williamtash]

Here is something I told Zonda Instead of having
the real Driver and insurance card make a copy of them and laminate them for rain cand carry this in your bag or on you then you. Hospital can use copies in em and then you don't have to worry about the real ones getting lost l

[JayC]

Tegaderm.. put some Tegaderm on it. That is THE stuff for roadrash.

Did you have a waiver on file? I dont want you sueing yourself.

[Bob S.]

Zonda, Doris and I are out of town for a reunion, and were both shocked to see this news about your accident. Thanks for all you have done for Slow Spokes and heal up soon.
Bob

[Zonda]

Visually my bike looks o.k. with some scratches on the rubber on the shifters. Looks like my body shielded it!! I'm taking it in this week to be looked at for cracks. I'm really getting sore today and everything hurts.

Thanks for your well wishes and offers to help. I can't remember who all to thank, but Mike D drove my car to the hospital, Donna took my bike, etc., Michelle made decisions while I will incoherent, but everyone rallied to help me out. I'm still a little foggy today, so excuse me. I need to lie down and sleep. I'm exhausted!

[mindymagrath]

Zonda,
I am glad your doing to hear you are not seriously injured. Ann was the one riding behind you. She said you dropped down to go fast and then you might of hit a pot hole we saw on the road, you went head first over your handle bars and landed right on top of your head. Your helmet did save you. She said you then kind of crumple up. Email me at my yahoo account and I will give you some more of the details unless you want me to give them to you on this posting, I can also give you Ann's phone number if want to contact her for the most accurate account. Mindy

[Pugslyyy]

Visually my bike looks o.k. with some scratches on the rubber on the shifters. Looks like my body shielded it!!

I'm glad you had your priorities straight, protecting the bike from damage! :D

Being more serious, glad to hear that your injuries are minor compared to what could have been. Best wishes for a speedy recovery!

I went flying over the handlebars once, it is not an experience I remember with pleasure. A piece of road debris got caught in my front wheel spokes, causing my front wheel to immediately and catastrophically stop moving. As I flew through the air, I remember having one thought before I hit the asphalt - "boy, this is going to hurt"

After an accident I found it can take a little time to get your confidence back - it's natural to be cautious. Just get out and ride when you are ready and it will come back.

[TracyW]

And to think I saw a rider out yesterday without a helmet.

[CharleyM3]

Save your helmet Zonda and contact the manufacturer. I'm sure that they will want to analyze it. They may send you a free replacement. You never know.

[Zonda]

Hey Neighbor (Charley),

That's a great idea! Thanks for the homemade vegetable soup and bread. It was so good! It was just what I needed since I can't open my mouth or chew very well.

[KarenG]

what are you doing for the road rash Zonda? have you gotten anything to put on it yet?

[Zonda]

I'm supposed to clean it 3-4 times a day. I haven't done it yet because I can't stand the thought of touching it. I'm getting ready to clean it with steril water and .9% sodium chloride irriagation, USP, the ER gave me. Then I will put on bacitracin. The instructions say to keep it covered with guaze.

My face is all dark now and oozing, yuck... Under my left eye is very swollen and black. I'll have a nice shiner:cool: . I won't be able to wear a helmet with a strap on that area for a while. I'm very sore all over, muscles and joints.

Can't wait to talk to Mindy or Ann to find out what they know. I just don't remember anything, which is probably a good thing.

[jjg39069]

Stay strong Zonda....just think, a little pain now (ok, a lot of pain) but a good story for life. :) You'll have the best story of everyone next time you're on an over-night bike trip sitting around the camp fire!

I was telling Michelle I thought you could've done a better job planning your accident....I mean, the season is just getting started!

Can I ask what road this all happened on so I'm sure to avoid it myself since I primarily ride in N. Raleigh?

Judy

[RickF]

Bacitracin is good stuff, too. Neosporin is a triple antibiotic - neomycin, polymyxin B, and bacitracin. Some people are allergic to topical neomycin, so Polymycin (polymyxin B and bacitracin), and plain Bacitracin are also available.

The old wives tale of letting a scrape dry so it will heal might have been a good idea back in the days before antibiotics and the days when the alternative was some lard or whale oil based product that was probably loaded with bacteria. Letting the wound dry under those conditions might have prevented infection, but it led to more scarring. Keeping the wound covered with an antibiotic ointment like Neosporin, Polysporin, or Bacitracin, will prevent infection and keep the wound moist so that it will heal faster and with less chance of scarring.

[ScottCh]

Hi Zonda,

Esther and I are really sorry to hear about your accident. I've had a few hard falls in my cycling career but yours may have me beat :( I encourage you to follow those instructions as well as possible, despite the pain. One of my falls gave me a scar on my chin, thus eliminating my plans for a life of crime - I'm too easy to identify now.

I'm not sure how much road rash you have. For areas other than the face, I have found large area transparent bandages to be very helpful. They can remain in place for days and are much easier to install and remove than gauze & tape. Most well stocked pharmacies have them in various sizes.

Our hopes and good wishes are with you.

Scott & Esther

[CharleyM3]

Hey Neighbor (Charley),
Thanks for the homemade vegetable soup and bread.


Happy to do it. I did the mixing, but Julie was the culinary advisor. Let us know if we can do anything for you.

Coming to the NCBC meeting tonight?

[Forsyth]

Zonda,

I'm so sorry that you had an accident and I hope you feel better soon. I can't imagine a Slow Spokes ride without you.

Your friend,
Forsyth

[Zonda]

Thanks for the kind words. It really means alot.

I'm doing o.k. today. Was really sore when I tried to get out of bed. Every joint and muscle ached.

Jay, I found the tegaderm bandages, $63 a box. They better be good. It's just like saran wrap and very hard to keep on, but if it speeds up healing, I'll deal with it.

I talked to Ann and she told me what she saw. Poor Ann has post traumatic stress from seeing me go over the handlebars. Ann and Mindy, please ride with us again. We ususally have uneventful rides, but we had a flat and a crash. We can learn something from this and I'm very lucky my injuries weren't more serious. Sorry you had to see this on your first ride.

[TracyW]

I talked to Ann and she told me what she saw. Poor Ann has post traumatic stress from seeing me go over the handlebars. Ann and Mindy, please ride with us again. We ususally have uneventful rides, but we had a flat and a crash. We can learn something from this and I'm very lucky my injuries weren't more serious. Sorry you had to see this on your first ride.There you go running newcommers off. How many times do we have to talk to you about that? :D

[Zonda]

I took my bike to the Spin Cycle. I had emailed Kevin a photo taken today. When he saw me, he said I looked better in the photo!

It looks like there is minimal damage to my bike. The brake hoods are scraped up and the Bonrager dampers are gone. The handle bars were in a different location. They are going to check for cracks in the frame, broken spokes, etc. I should get it back on Thursday if there is nothing major.

I called Giro. They have a crash replacement program. I can buy another helmet at 30% off, so I ordered one.

I don't know if I can ride Sat. since it may be hard to put a helmet strap near my face, but we'll see...:p

[Zonda]

There you go running newcommers off. How many times do we have to talk to you about that? :D

Behave Head Separatist Spoke...:D

[Zonda]

Can I ask what road this all happened on so I'm sure to avoid it myself since I primarily ride in N. Raleigh?

Boyce Mill Road...:eek:

[williamtash]

We are going to change it to the Zonda zone road

[Wyld]

Zonda.. I am sorry I was unavailable to ride with you. I was called into work while on my way to north Raleigh. I would have much preferred it having been me hitting the hole instead of you. I have the experience with crashing from racing mountain bikes hehe.

Im not sure of what I can do for you but all you have to do is ask and if its in my ability to do it will be done.

If you can not lead the next couple of rides don’t worry and if im able to I will lead them for you.

Concentrate on getting well and remember for road rash the best fix is swimming at the beach. Hurts like hell but sure heals up nicely.


Kelly

[Pugslyyy]

There you go running newcommers off. How many times do we have to talk to you about that? :D

Well we just had so many people showing up to ride, we had to do something to pare the numbers down. :p

[TracyW]

You have to say one thing, Zonda will stop at nothing to educate others. ;)

[CharleyM3]

Does this incident give a new meaning to the term "fork in the road"?:eek:
Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[CharleyM3]

I'd like to hear what happened that caused the crash. Not the crash itself, but what caused it.

[fvncgal]

Zonda,

Just started reading and saw the postings on your accident. Know I'm thinking of you, feel better very soon. I'm looking forward to more riding events with the group this Spring and expect you to be in the lead...

Take Care...
Rebekah:) :)

[Zonda]

Thanks Rebekah! Looking forward to you joining us soon!

[Zonda]

Concentrate on getting well and remember for road rash the best fix is swimming at the beach. Hurts like hell but sure heals up nicely.
Kelly

Thanks Kelly! Hopefully, I'll be back in the saddle in a week or so!

[Zonda]

It looks like there is minimal damage to my bike. The brake hoods are scraped up and the Bontrager dampers are gone. The handle bars were in a different location. They are going to check for cracks in the frame, broken spokes, etc. I should get it back on Thursday if there is nothing major.

I don't know if I can ride Sat. since it may be hard to put a helmet strap near my face, but we'll see...:p

Got my bike back yesterday. They replaced the brake hoods, trued the back tire and replaced the Bontrager buzzkill thingees. You would think if I hit a pot hole, the front tire and wheel would be damaged. I have a small scratch on the paint.

My left arm is much better. My neck hurts a lot and my face really hurts, but it's getting better each day. I can't ride Sat. I'm hoping to ride Wed., but won't know for a few days if my face heals more. I will be there Wed. at the ride start and end whether I ride or not.

Thanks again for all the support. It's sinking in what happened and kind of freaking me out!! I didn't think I would be nervous about riding, but now I am. I remembered my front wheel feeling wabbly on the last 2 rides. I had it checked when I first noticed it to see if it needed truing, but they said it didn't. I'm wondering if that had something to do with the crash.:confused:

[ScottCh]

I remembered my front wheel feeling wabbly on the last 2 rides. I had it checked when I first noticed it to see if it needed truing, but they said it didn't. I'm wondering if that had something to do with the crash.:confused:

Hi Zonda,

There is a combination of factors that can occur when riding downhill that can cause the front wheel on a bicycle to shimmy. It is most noticable when coasting and riding no-hands, but can also occur with hands on the bars. There's a description of it here:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part4/section-23.html

It looks like there are a few things that can be done to keep it from happening. Continuing to pedal instead of coasting helps. When coasting, holding one leg against the top tube reduces it. To stop it completely they recommend lifting off the saddle - this seems a little odd but that's what the article says.

There's a more technical description of the problem here, but it does not have much practical advice. http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/shimmy.html

Another thing to check for is a tire problem. You and the bike shop probably would have already noticed it though. A defective tire can have a center line that does not stay straight when the wheel rotates; it looks like it moves from side to side. I haven't seen one like this in years though.

Hope this helps,

Scott

[Zonda]

Thanks Scott!

[skiffrun]

Scott's reference to shimmy is interesting. If speed reached critical just as one went to the drops, it is possible only one hand (or even neither) was in contact with the handlebar for a moment, then poof!

I've been up and down Boyce Mill twice in each direction and have found no particularly bad potholes. There are a fair number of patched ones, and of course they are rough, but wouldn't think that by themselves they'd cause a bend in a rim, or an endo. All the patches seem pretty close to the edge and I wouldn't expect anyone to ride all that close to the edge of a no-traffic, patchy road. Most of the patches don't make it to the left edge of the right tire "track". If one were going to the drops, they might drift some and then hit something that came up too quickly to steer around, and that might have a catastrophic chain reaction.

There is a deep ~ 4-5-inch diameter hole in the automobile left wheel track, but it is within sight of the stop sign. I wouldn't imagine anyone going to the drops then; more likely to have begun to slow. Plus I wouldn't think anyone would be that far left in the lane unless riding 2 or 3 abreast.

I had been wondering if accidental left-hand braking before right hand (i.e., front wheel first) could have occurred, or accidental left-hand braking while going to the drops. That could easily result in instant endo given the rapidly increasing slope on BM Rd.

It would all be such interesting supposition if there hadn't been a real, live person on the short end of the stick.

[CharleyM3]

I'm not a reconstruction expert, nor do I play one on TV. Zonda did say that she moved left starting the descent so she could have been in the left wheel track. A close examination of the tire might reveal if a pot hole was hit. Even if there is no damage to the rim the tire might show the evidence in a pinch mark.
I apologize for my curiosity. Its in my nature to solve problems and figure out what caused the problem to begin with. I feel guilty since some one I know was involved and hurt in the event.
The article on shimmy was great. My Frankenbike project is prone to shimmy. Now I understand why and that it cannot be "fixed".

[RickF]

A friend I road with in a Team GSK ride today had an endo on his Lightspeed several years ago. In his case, if his foot is all the way forward (i.e., cranks in the 3:00 or 9:00 position), and he turns his wheel, his toe will touch the wheel. When he had his endo, he said his toe hit the tire hard enough to stop the front wheel and leave a scuff mark on the shoe.

I checked that possibility out on my bike. I have big feet, but I ride a bike with a long wheelbase (Specialized Roubaix), and my toes only clear the tire by less than half an inch. If I had the cleats any farther back, I could see where it would be possible for me to hit the wheel with my toe.

[TracyW]

She meant to do it.

[Zonda]

Actually, now I recall what happened. Tracy buzzed by and caused me to lose control and go over the handlebars...:D Gottcha!

I have no idea what happened. I don't have any marks on my shoes. I don't recall anything other than moving to the left and going to the drops and next being put in an ambulance.

Michelle saw a dip across the road near where I landed. I must have hit it just right and it caused me to fly over the handlebars.:eek:

[TracyW]

Actually, we figured out that David March was hiding in the bushes and had a snag wire strung across the road waiting for you. Once you are eliminated, he and his faithful chimp (Cookie) can rule the Slow Spoke world :D


Michelle saw a dip across the road near where I landed. I must have hit it just right and it caused me to fly over the handlebars.:eek:That's what I figure happened. Sometimes you lean way forward when you are getting in the drop. Yoou were probably way forward and hit that dip........lights out.:eek:

[Pugslyyy]

So are we saying that the dip across the road was David March?

[TracyW]

So are we saying that the dip across the road was David March?lmao :p

[Pugslyyy]

I did a little google searching and it seems like 'David March' was an LA police officer gunned down in the line of duty. Pretty tacky pseudonym for somebody to use for anonymous posting to a blog, if that is the case. :(

http://www.deputydavidmarch.com/DptDavidMarch_4.jpg

[KarenG]

that's just wrong. google brings this guy up as the first reference.

[TracyW]

Maybe this goofball sees himself as a fallen hero.

[RickF]

For a minute, I thought you all were talking about David Marsh. David Marsh used to be the head swim coach at Auburn, and now he is the coach of Mecklenburg Aquatic Club in Charlotte. I am glad to see it is not the sme individual.

[TracyW]

For a minute, I thought you all were talking about David Marsh. David Marsh used to be the head swim coach at Auburn, and now he is the coach of Mecklenburg Aquatic Club in Charlotte. I am glad to see it is not the sme individual.http://blogs.newsobserver.com/joemiller/index.php?title=going_slow_and_gaining_steam&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#comments

[williamtash]

Ok then what marsh are you all talking about just for the asking

[TracyW]

See N&O link I posted. In the comments section

[Zonda]

Karen, you were right. My peeps took good care of me…;)

Forsyth and Kathryn both volunteered to give me their jersey and take one from the next order. Thank you ladies!! Now to see which one I can squeeze into!!:eek:

Thank you all so much for your generous contributions to raise money to replace my helmet and beloved Slow Spokes jersey. I sincerely appreciate your contributions, prayers, words of encouragement and support. Any doubts I had about the time I spend on this group are gone. I’m where I need to be and doing the right thing with a great group of people. Slow Spokes Rule!! Thank you so much.

[CharleyM3]

What you have done for wanna-be cyclists, giving your time, talents, and energy, is nothing short of fantastic. It is rewarding to me to be able to give something back to you. Thank you for all that you've done for all of us. My prayers are with you for a full recovery.
-Charley.

[williamtash]

Charely I should have let you give the speech at the OVM ride. You are a lot better at it than I am. You said everthing that I always think about Zonda and the slow spokes. Next time I am going to hirer you