Saddle advice

[Perry]

Looks like I need a better saddle. I'm relatively new to road biking. My current seat came with my bike. Its been fine for short rides, but about thirty miles into a long ride this last weekend my nether regions started feeling a bit numb.

Anyone have a recommendation for a good ergonomic saddle (male specific). Price is important, name brand is not.

[Zonda]

Hey, I temporarily moved this thread in case it was over looked. Can anyone else help out Perry?

Last year I had the same problem. Jackie T. recommended I eat more Hagen Daas!! I opted to buy better bike shorts and a gel seat…:D

First suggestion is to use chamois butt’r (http://www.pacelineproducts.com/products/chamois.html). I use A&D (http://www.myadbaby.com/) ointment you can find it in the baby section, which works the same and is a lot cheaper. There are plenty of generic brands, Eckerd, Walmart, etc.

Second suggestion is to have good bike shorts. The best ones I’ve found are the Sugoi RS Flex Short (http://sugoi.com/prod.php?p=SUG38377U.661&k=65651). They are expensive, but worth it for rides over 30 miles. The technology is explained here, http://sugoi.com/tech_chamois.php?c_id=352 (http://sugoi.com/tech_chamois.php?c_id=352) You can usually find last year’s version at a cheaper price.

Men’s 2006 version (https://shop.sunrisecyclery.com/item/12943/)
Women’s 2006 version (http://www.teamestrogen.com/products.asp?pID=17585)
Women’s 2007 version (http://www.teamestrogen.com/products.asp?pID=22800)

If you already are using chamois butt’r and have good bike shorts then you need a different seat. I had a Terry Butterfly saddle, which hurt after 30 miles. I switched to a cheap Serfas EZ gel seat and that resolved the problem. I paid $30 at REI (http://www.rei.com/bike/TOC/Components/Bike+Saddles?cm_re=toc*toc*bike_saddles&vcat=REI_SSHP_CYCLING_TOC). They have men’s and women’s version. Kelly (screen name Wyld) has the men’s version. Most people say not to use a gel seat, but that’s the only seat that works for me so far. It looks like they changed the name from EZ gel to Full Suspension Hybrid Saddle, $35.

Also, The Spin Cycle (http://www.thespincycle.com/) has a saddle program. You pay a small deposit to try out various used seats until you find the right one. Then you purchase a new one.

Hope this helps.

[KarenG]

2nd suggestion: Queen Helene's Cocoa Butter found at Wal-Mart is the best stuff. 100x better than chamois butt'r. I use it every ride and dont' really have much issues with the soreness I was experiencing last fall.

+1 on the Sugoi RS Flex Shorts. Well worth the $100 bucks I paid for mine last year. will be getting another pair in the near future.

[JayC]

Terry Fly

And maybe a bike refit.

[MikeD]

I have the Terry Fly Ti saddle and like it very much. It's a harder saddle but that very fact is what keeps your soft tissue from getting compressed. You're propped right up on your "sit bones" which relieves the pressure. That's my 2 cents.

[RickF]

Saddles are a very personal thing. What works well for one person does not work at all for another. The most important thing, though, is that the saddle position is correct. Even the best saddle will not work if you are not sitting on it properly. The ischeal tuberosities (aka the "sit bones") need to be planted firmly on the widest part of the saddle. If the saddle is too far back, you end up sitting too far forward on the saddle, and all the pressure is on the soft tissue of the perineum, and not on the sit bones.

Numbness in the nether regions is a sure sign of pressure being in the wrong place. If the problem is chafing, then Chamois Butt'r or cocoa butter will help. If the problem is soreness in the region of the sit bones, that will only go away with more miles in the saddle. If the problem is numbness, that can be serious, and can only be fixed by finding the proper position on the saddle or by finding the right saddle.

I am beginning to find that most things with bike fit and pain are counterintuitive. A soft saddle, or worse yet, the gel pads that fit over the saddle, will cause more pressure on the perineum and make the numbness worse. A hard saddle, with or without a cut-out down the middle, will reduce pressure on the perineum and improve circulation.

Body weight is distributed across the butt, feet, and hands. If the saddle is too low, there will be too much weight on the butt, and not enough on the hands and feet. If the saddle is at the right height, but the bars are too high, there still will be too much weight on the butt, and not enough on the hands. Small changes can make a big difference.

I use a Specialized Avatar saddle. It comes in three different widths to fit different butt sizes. I have the 143 mm, which is the middle size, and find it to be very comfortable. I also like the Trek Race Lite Lux. The Terry Fly, Selle Italia Flite, Selle SMP Strike, Brooks B17, and Fi'z;ik Arione are also very popular. If there was one saddle that fit everyone, then it would be the only saddle on the market.

There is no correlation between price and comfort. There is some correlation between price and weight, but the $300 Selle San Marco Aspide at 100 grams is not likely to be any more comfortable than the $120, 240 gram Terry Fly or the $75, 340 gram Specialized Avatar.

[Perry]

Great suggestions you guys. Just what I was looking for.

My problem is definitely numbness. Since I haven't had problems except on long rides I think I'll try some small adjustments to the seat position. See what the sit bones think of that. A new seat may be in order but I'm not in any hurry until my next big ride, probably Raven Rock Ramble.

I think my shorts are good, but the Sugoi do look nice!! I could probably use a little more glide, but Queen Helene's Cocoa Butter? I dont know if my male ego could take that. But come to think of it I would have used just about anything at mile 39 last weekend.

Thanks for moving my post Zonda.

[RickF]

That sounds like a good plan. Sore sit bones will get better with time. The lubricants (Glide, Chamois Butt'r, A&D Ointment, Queen Helene's Cocoa Butter, etc) help with chafing. The shorts will help both with the sore sit bones and chafing. When you start cycling, the first things to improve are the legs. The next are the heart and lungs. The butt is the last thing to get used to the stress of cycling, but again, this applies only if the symptoms are sore sit bones or chafing.

When the primary problem is numbness, finding the correct saddle and saddle position are a must. Riding out of the saddle for a minute every five to ten minutes will also help, but the best aproach is to make sure there is no compression of the nerves and blood vessels that run through the perineum.

[CharleyM3]

I have used Terry Liberator Y for some time. After 40-50 miles it's tiring because it has a little too much padding. I'm trying out a Specialize Avatar now. So far I'm impressed. I have the widest butt on the planet and need a 155mm saddle. The Avatar suites me.
If you want something more exotic, I have a ISM Road saddle that, despite the shape is very comfortable when I'm riding a pure road bike. My normal ride is a hibrid with aero bars. Stange combination, but I love it.
Soft is the enemy. I prefer deep cutouts and short noses. Ahh if I were king...

[JayC]

If you want a hard saddle with cutouts, you should look at the Toupe. I had one on my bike for a few days and hated it. It was like riding on a board.

Also, to the OP, if you are having numbness issues, you need to look at a saddle with a cutout. That will relieve the pressure and stop things from going numb down there.

Also, if you didnt get your bike fit by a professional, do it. Its worth the money.

[esther-l]

I use a Terry Liberator Y on 2 bikes, and it works for me.
When I had numbness issues, it was from a saddle that was too soft and the shape was wrong for me. I need a narrow pointy triangle, as opposed to a wide short triangle.

My husband loves the Performance E3 saddle line. Those are very firm. They worked for me for a while early last year, but turned out to be too firm for my tuberosities. We may well have a spare in our saddle collection, since I bought enough for more than 1 bike before determining that those did not work for me. My husband is thrilled to have plenty of his favorite saddle on hand!

I agree with other folks about looking at your bike fit to pinpoint the cause of numbness. It could turn out that you have too much weight on the saddle, and not enough on the bars due to the wrong length stem on the bike. Or the saddle may be at the wrong height, or too far forward/backward.

I use A+D store-brand diaper rash cream.
Esther

[CharleyM3]

I just finished a 41 mile ride on the Avatar. It was "different". It was a very firm sit, but I never got uncomfortable.
In a perfect world my saddle would be concave with about a 1 meter radius with elongated gel pads, oval about 3 inces long. The reason is that I have a hibrid bike with aero bars. So I go from about 75-80 degrees when upright to 30 degrees when I'm in the aero bars. Being comfortable at both extremes is a lot to ask.

Sorry, I ramble. I'm tired.

[kidderd@bellsouth.net]

Ok - so I bought the Sugoi RS Flex Shorts that came so highly recommended because my upper thighs tend to get a rash on long rides. Tried them on and realized you can see through them. Are they supposed to be worn UNDER something? or are you supposed to wear them commando? I'm thinking I can't wear flowers or stripes but might get away with plain pink :-).

[RickF]

You are not supposed to wear anything under cycling shorts. It sort of defeats the purpose of having the close fit and flat seams to prevent chafing to then wear panties that will bunch up underneath and cause more chafing. Wearing panties under cycling shorts would be like wearing panties under a swim suit.

There are two reasons that most cycling shorts are black. The first is that leather saddles will leave black marks on the shorts. The second, and more important, is that most other colors of lycra are see-through.

[CharleyM3]

Yeah, what Rick said. Nothing between you and the chamoise in the shorts.
When my wife used to ride I wore cotton gym shorts over my riding shorts. It was for her comfort rather than mine. Sometimes I wear a long sleeveless tee shirts under my jersey and tuck the tail in deep.
We had a discussion about the relative transparancy of cycling shorts on the ride Saturday. Think about this. How many times have you been concerned with, or for that matter even noticed, what you can or cannot see on the rider ahead of you. Everyone wears them and no-one cares. It's part of riding. That said, if you have to make an adjustment, consider a fanny pack.

[KarenG]

both Zonda and I were the RS shorts. i don't think that you can see through them, although it sorta seems like you can if you put your hand under the leg. maybe the tush area has a little more material?

i try not to look that close at the rider's butt in front of me, but (haha) if the shorts were see-through on the guy in front of me, i'm sure i'd notice :D. never really thought about anyone seeing through my shorts, tho :rolleyes:

[RickF]

This is why all cycling shorts should be black:

[Pugslyyy]

i try not to look that close at the rider's butt in front of me, but (haha) if the shorts were see-through on the guy in front of me, i'm sure i'd notice :D. never really thought about anyone seeing through my shorts, tho :rolleyes:
What's that saying - "unless you're the lead dog the view never changes"

[KarenG]

What's that saying - "unless you're the lead dog the view never changes"

LOL. i'm hardly ever the "lead dog", so my view almost never changes. i'm always the chaser :p and we know who i'm usually chasing...that darn Elephant on a tricycle:D

[CharleyM3]

Gee Rick, uhh thanks ... I think. :eek: That certainly puts things in a different light, so to speak.

[Zonda]

I have asked several people and they say you can’t see through the shorts. I know they seem sheer when you stretch your hand through the leg, but I don’t think you can see through them or at least I hope you can’t.:eek: Riding at the back has its benefits!!

[CharleyM3]

Hmmm how to phrase this with out getting into too much trouble. I spent some time behind Zonda and didn't notice that I could see anything I shouldn't. I wasn't trying to either.
Don't worry about it, really. Wear quality dark shorts and enjoy the ride. If you think someone is lingering on your tail, get a friend between you until they go away or invite them to pass you.

[Pugslyyy]

Hmmm how to phrase this with out getting into too much trouble. I spent some time behind Zonda and didn't notice that I could see anything I shouldn't.

...I'm not sure there is a way to say what you just did without getting into trouble. :D

Sooo what you are saying is that whatever you saw is only what Zonda intended for you to see? :eek:

[CharleyM3]

Right and I want to be damn quick to point out that all I saw was clothing.

[Pugslyyy]

http://pugsly.bechange.com/forum_fodder/bwahahah.jpg

[Zonda]

Now we know why Charley was so eager to ride with me at the back!!

See the Red Sonja attachment for what I want you to think you see! The other is what I hope you don't see!

[CharleyM3]

Now we know why Charley was so eager to ride with me at the back!!

I'm hurt, I'm insulted, I'm... I'm... I'm... Busted!;)

[Perry]

Now we know why Charley was so eager to ride with me at the back!!

See the Red Sonja attachment for what I want you to think you see! The other is what I hope you don't see!

I think that's chain mail on Sonja there. Probably not the most comfortable clothing option on a bike, but certainly not see through. That Queen Whoever Coco butter you guys suggested for chafing would definitely be advisable for Sonja.

[williamtash]

Man come back after being out you all are talking dirty to each other out here. ha ha I have a pair of white and pink short and the white is on the sides only. I put my hand in them to see If you could see through them you can a little That when I decided white would never be a color solely for me. I have even seen some black ones on some guys the leave nothing to emagineHave you all seen the shorts with the big red heart on the back( butt) and the rest is white

[CharleyM3]

This is what she probably thought I saw.

[Zonda]

Ouch...:eek:

[KarenG]

you mean these :D

[williamtash]

yes those are the ones The white leave nothing to anything and man can you see Charley riding behind that for 30 miles. But then It may get some to ride a lot faster