Ride 05/23/07, 6:00 p.m. Cary/MacGregor Village, Oh Melo Velo, RSVP

[Zonda]

There is a strict start time of 6:00 by the ride organizer Ed. Be ready and line up in your groups by 5:55.

RSVP by Tuesday, 5:00 p.m. with your choice of ride pace if you want to be put in a riding group.

When: Wednesdays, 6:00 p.m.

Where:
MacGregor Village (http://www.ncbikeclub.org/calendar/ncbcstrt.htm#mcgvl) Cary

Meet in parking lot between Wachovia Bank and Bistro Restaurant. Try to avoid parking near the bank.

Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=101+Edinburgh+Dr+S+Cary+NC)

Distance:
Any distance. Ride ½ your time and U-turn, finish at sunset.

Pace:
10-12 mph beginners
13-18 mph

No drop. Me, Michelle or Rick each will lead the beginner group once a month riding behind the slowest rider. Rick will lead from the back this week. There are several subgroups for ride paces and distances.

Cue Sheet (provided at ride)

Contact Person: Zonda

Comments:

RSVP requested to help plan riding groups. RSVP by replying to ride announcement thread.
Slow Spokes join the fast Oh Melo Velo (http://ohmelovelo.dnsalias.org/) riders to lead a slow group. See Ed's website Bicycling 2007 section.
Beginners are welcome to join this ride.
Please arrive in time to prepare your bike to leave promptly at 6:00 p.m. If you arrive late, David or Ed will leave cue sheets on their car back window under the wiper blade.
All riders should carry proper equipment in case they have a flat (spare tube, pump or CO2 cartridge).
It is strongly recommended that you carry your driver’s license and health insurance card in case of an emergency. You may also want to program your cell phone with an emergency contact number under the name “ICE” In Case of Emergency.
New riders should read Bicycling Hand Signals and Safety Pointers (http://www.trianglecycling.com/showthread.php?t=17385)

[Pugslyyy]

Thanks Zonda - I'll see you there!

[Zonda]

Thanks Zonda - I'll see you there!

16-18 mph group or 18+ this week?

[Pugslyyy]

Probably 16-18, most likely it will be my second ride of the day again.

[BetsyW]

Brian and I will be there. Brian in 16+ and me in the 13-15 group trying to keep up with speedy Zonda:D

[fvncgal]

Count me in the 14mph group...

Rebekah

[besslb]

I'm in! 13-15 group...

[CharleyM3]

I'll be there riding 14-15.

[sportingfool]

I plan on riding w/the 13-15 group.
Andrea

[RickF]

I wil be there. If we have any definie riders for an under 13 mph group, I will ride my hybrid. I have not ridden it since March. If I have to go faster than 14 mph, though, I need my road bike.

[lsommer2005]

This is Lisa and I plan to ride this week. Last week, my average speed was 12.6mph. So I better stick with the 10-12mph group ~ although I hope to improve my speed to be able to hang with the 13-15mph group soon.

[esther-l]

I am a maybe for the 10-12 mph group.

I have a deadline at work, and am not sure if I can escape at 5pm to get to the ride start.
Esther

[Dajuan]

Hi Zonda, count me in for the 16+ group. I can't wait. It's been two weeks since I've been on my bike.

[MikeD]

I plan on coming out to ride. :) Life had gotten in the way of having fun again and I've been away for the last two weeks so I'm looking forward to riding with the SS again. See you then! 16+ for me.

[jibrantl]

I will be there...I am a beginner cyclist, so I will probably join the 10-12 mph group.

[CharleyM3]

Oh bring the "brid" Rick. It'll be good for you.

[RickF]

Oh bring the "brid" Rick. It'll be good for you.Now that I see we have several riders in the under 13 mph group, I will bring the 'brid. It will make yours look svelte. I will just have to remember to bring a spare tube for the 38mm tires. I only have a 23 mm tube in my wedge.

[MarkS]

I'll be there -- 16+

[KathyB]

You need to be nice to that hybrid, Rick....she's been awfully good to you ;-).

I'm a newbie - thanks to a conversation with Rick and Zonda at the Exxon rest stop last Saturday - and would love to join you. Either the 14-ish group or the 10-12 group would be fine.

[williamtash]

Nice to see you back Mike D

[RickF]

Welcome, Kathy. Yes, that hybrid has been good to me. It was the only thing that I could ride when I was 265 pounds, and even at that weight and riding on the American Tobacco Trail, in two years I never had a flat or a wheel go out of true. Now that I am down to 180 pounds, I have more options, but I still use the hybrid when I expect to be riding under 13 mph or when I am riding on trails. It is a nice change of pace from the road bike, but it is very difficult to average greater than 14 mph on the hybrid.

The next summer that neither of my daughters who live in Baltimore are pregnant, I plan to ride the C&O Canal with them on the hybrid. http://bikewashington.org/canal/ At the rate things are going, though, I might end up riding with my grandchildren before we have a summer where none of my daughters are pregnant :rolleyes:

[williamtash]

Let me tell you riding with grand kids is a plus rick They can show you what having fun on a bike really is

[Michelle W]

Hey Kathy B. Welcome to the group. Great to ride with you on Sat with GSK ride. You can do 13-14 on these routes.

[JimH]

I'll be there - 15-16 mph group

[BetsyW]

I plan to ride the C&O Canal with them on the hybrid. http://bikewashington.org/canal/ At the rate things are going, though, I might end up riding with my grandchildren before we have a summer where none of my daughters are pregnant :rolleyes:

I would love to ride the whole canal - I grew up (and my entire family still lives there) in Cumberland, MD at the far western end of the canal. I grew up riding that end of it but I've never done the whole thing - great place to ride if you have the kind of bike.

[mproctor]

I am new to the group and beginner rider. Put me in the 10-12 group.

[williamtash]

welcome to the group you will have a great time with this group

[amac]

I'm a beginner rider and just found this thread looking for more opportunities to ride - if the ride is open to anybody I'd love to ride in the 10-12 group tomorrow - if I need to register for the group or anything like that I'd love any information anybody could send my way. Thanks!

[Zonda]

if I need to register for the group or anything like that I'd love any information anybody could send my way. Thanks!

Welcome Kathy B., mproctor, Jessica (jibrantl) and Amy (amac)!!!

The group is open to everyone. No fees, no special RSVP buttons to let us know you want to ride. Just reply to the ride announcement thread and let us know your pace or distance preference. See Slow Spokes Riding Group (http://www.trianglecycling.com/showthread.php?t=17384) thread for information about our group. Also, read the thread on Safety and Bicycling Hand Signals (http://www.trianglecycling.com/showthread.php?t=17385).

Rick is leading the beginner route tomorrow. Please feel free to come to the ride! I take it as a compliment that folks ask if we have membership fees, etc. Guess we look more organized than we are...;)

[Zonda]

Riders: 18

10-12 mph
Rick
Lisa
Esther (maybe)
Jessica (jibrantl)
Mproctor
Amy (amac)

13-15 mph
Betsy
Rebekah
Bess
Charley
Andrea
Kathy B.

16-18 mph
Jon T.
Brian J.
Dajuan
Mike D.
Mark S.
Jim H.

18+ mph
none

I’m not riding tomorrow. You can post your stats after the ride if you want. Have a good ride!

[williamtash]

Look at the size of that ss group that is is riding that is fantastic Zonda Wen is getting bigger than the weekend rides by the look of it

[Zonda]

Look at the size of that ss group that is is riding that is fantastic Zonda Wen is getting bigger than the weekend rides by the look of it

We usually have 20-25 riders on Wednesday. I think the Sat. rides have less attendance since we moved it to 8:00 a.m.

[Gerard]

I plan to be there. 16-18mph.

[xflow]

Im planning on ridding. Going to keep it 16-18 for this ride. (fred)

[Elaine]

Being unemployed is great now I can ride my bike more, we will be there Ms. Zonda.

Elaine and Boyd

[Dasa]

Count me in .. perhaps 13 - 14 mph

[Perry]

Hi Zonda,

I think I'm going to get there, but I'm moving a bit slow this week. Better book me for any 14 to 15 mph group.

[CharleyM3]

...but it is very difficult to average greater than 14 mph on the hybrid.
Why is that? When I was in the grove last summer I was averaging 15-16 on the Frankenbike. Yesterday I biked to work on the Tank and had a round trip average of 16.2 (29.1 miles total). Switching to a road bike has only brought me up 1 mph

...At the rate things are going, though, I might end up riding with my grandchildren before we have a summer where none of my daughters are pregnant.

A friend of mine went on RAGBRAI last year 3 months pregnant. She wasn't fast but she made the distance every day.

[RickF]

Why is that? When I was in the grove last summer I was averaging 15-16 on the Frankenbike. Yesterday I biked to work on the Tank and had a round trip average of 16.2 (29.1 miles total). As I recall, your Frankenbike is based on the Specialized Sirrus and has aerobars. My hybrid is the Specialized Crossroads. The Crossroads is about 10 pounds heavier than the Sirrus, has 38mm tires instead of 28mm, and sits extremely upright compared to your aerobars. Top speed on the Crossroads and the Roubaix is the same, but accelleration on the Crossroads is very poor. I average at least 3 mph faster on the Roubaix than the Crossroads, but I would think one mph difference between the Sirrus and the Roubaix is probably about right.

[esther-l]

The next summer that neither of my daughters who live in Baltimore are pregnant, I plan to ride the C&O Canal with them on the hybrid. http://bikewashington.org/canal/

Scott and I went on a tour of the C&O Canal on my first biking trip, in 2003. We didn't ride the entire trail, but covered most of it in 5 days.

The tour company had a luggage minivan, and we stayed in hotels. I don't know if I would try to carry camping gear on the bike and camp if I were pregnant. There are a TON of mosquitoes and gnats on the canal. There is no cell phone signal on a lot of the canal. There are lots of stinging nettles, too.

The least maintained part of the C&O canal is between mileposts 25 and 50. We had the misfortune to hit that portion of the trip right after the remnants of a tropical storm. Scott, the avid mountain biker, has never ridden in such deep mud because you're not supposed to ride wet trails.
Esther

[apxrider]

i will join your ride. 13-15 I think I can handle.

greg

[Bikecruiser]

Zonda, put me in for the 13-15 group.

Mike H.

[RickF]

Riders - too numerous to count. I hope everyone will identify themselves or the group they were in, because I sure cannot remember everyone who was there.

I road with Jessica. Our stats were:

Distance 25.8 miles
Time 2:08
Average 12.1 mph

[Zonda]

Sorry there was so much chaos tonight. Not a good night for me to take off. Welcome to the new riders.

Jessica, I hope you are o.k. and don't give up on cycling.

David will update us tomorrow on Ed's broken femur.

[KarenG]

please post when you or someone knows more about ed's condition.

karen

[JayC]

So exactly what happened? Sounds like chaos abounded tonight :(

[Zonda]

So exactly what happened? Sounds like chaos abounded tonight :(

Rick can tell you more about Jessica's accident. He said a car passed her then made a right turn in front of her. She is o.k.

I called David and he said Ed was u-turning slowly. He didn't think anyone was behind him. When he turned, a cyclist from Inside-Out-Sports t-boned him. Ed broke his femur. The other guy was o.k.

26 people RSVP'd to ride tonight. We need more leaders to help with the groups since attendance has gotten so large. Anyone interested in helping with the 10-12 mph and 13-15 mph groups? You don't have to lead at the front. You make sure each person is accounted for in your group and ride with the slowest person so no one gets dropped.

Most new riders only need a helping hand a few rides then they are on their own. This is something unique that our group offers, but we are getting so large we need more people to help. If you think you aren't a leader, know that I was slightly past beginner level when I created this group February 2005. Look where we are now. Please consider helping out.

[KarenG]

i'm gonna say it in the forum this time....this is not a ride for beginners! i don't know if this had anything to do with the accident, but OMV rides are not for beginner riders. cary just aint the place for beginners.

beginner riders should ride on the "used to be" sunday rides in cary on the bike lanes or come out to the Cyclepaths rides, which have VERY little traffic.

my $0.02

[Pugslyyy]

It was definitely a crazy night. For those of us that were at the scene with Ed we had a bit of a scramble to get back before dark.

Distance: 36.5
Time: 2:05
Avg: 17.5

[RickF]

Fortunately, Jessica's accident, although terrifying for her (and me, because I see my children in all of the beginner riders, and there was nothing I could have done to prevent it), ended up not being as bad as it could have been. We were on our way back on Old Raleigh Road. A minivan passed us as we approached Buckingham Way, and then the minivan turned into Buckingham Way right in front of Jessica. I was behind Jessica, so I had room to stop, but there was nothing that either of us could have done to prevent Jessica from hitting the van. The driver of the van was clearly at fault, since he was turning right when he was already to the left of us, and we were going straight, but this is one of those cases where being in the right is not enough. A girl on a bike is no match for a minivan.

I did explain the rules of the road in no uncertain terms to the driver of the minivan. Neither Jessica nor her bike were damaged, but that was the type of encounter from which it takes time to regain one's composure. Jessica was concerned that she had done something wrong, but she did not. It would have been no different from a car turning right from the left hand lane when there was already a car in the right hand lane. The car in the right hand lane has the right of way. In this case, there was only one lane, but the car passed to the left of the cyclist, then turned right, cutting off the cyclist.

[KarenG]

ok...i understand that ed's accident coulda been his fault...but, 26 riders with some who are just beginners, the cary area doesn't seem very conducive to safe riding for those beginners...

my $0.02

i sincerely hope ed makes a full recovery and that i can ride with him again.

karen

[JayC]

Fortunately, Jessica's accident, although terrifying for her (and me, because I see my children in all of the beginner riders, and there was nothing I could have done to prevent it), ended up not being as bad as it could have been. We were on our way back on Old Raleigh Road. A minivan passed us as we approached Buckingham Way, and then the minivan turned into Buckingham Way right in front of Jessica. I was behind Jessica, so I had room to stop, but there was nothing that either of us could have done to prevent Jessica from hitting the van. The driver of the van was clearly at fault, since he was turning right when he was already to the left of us, and we were going straight, but this is one of those cases where being in the right is not enough. A girl on a bike is no match for a minivan.

I did explain the rules of the road in no uncertain terms to the driver of the minivan. Neither Jessica nor her bike were damaged, but that was the type of encounter from which it takes time to regain one's composure. Jessica was concerned that she had done something wrong, but she did not. It would have been no different from a car turning right from the left hand lane when there was already a car in the right hand lane. The car in the right hand lane has the right of way. In this case, there was only one lane, but the car passed to the left of the cyclist, then turned right, cutting off the cyclist.
Im glad she wasnt hurt. I hope you guys filed a police report.

[williamtash]

Jessica Those of us that have been hit by car as beginner know how you feel
Rick is right you were doing everything right to be safe. I will tell you this you need to get back out there as soon as you can on another ride. Each ride after this one will help you put this behind you and build your determination to ride you bike. I am so glad you were both ok. Sorry to here about Ed let us know how he is doing as soon as anyone knows.

[Perry]

Rick can tell you more about Jessica's accident. He said a car passed her then made a right turn in front of her. She is o.k.

I called David and he said Ed was u-turning slowly. He didn't think anyone was behind him. When he turned, a cyclist from Inside-Out-Sports t-boned him. Ed broke his femur. The other guy was o.k.

26 people RSVP'd to ride tonight. We need more leaders to help with the groups since attendance has gotten so large. Anyone interested in helping with the 10-12 mph and 13-15 mph groups? You don't have to lead at the front. You make sure each person is accounted for in your group and ride with the slowest person so no one gets dropped.

Most new riders only need a helping hand a few rides then they are on their own. This is something unique that our group offers, but we are getting so large we need more people to help. If you think you aren't a leader, know that I was slightly past beginner level when I created this group February 2005. Look where we are now. Please consider helping out.


Zonda, I'll be glad to help with a group, but as you can see from my recent attendance I'm not there on a regular basis. I"ll try to let you know a little more in advance if I will be at an OMV ride to help as a leader.

Concerning the safety of the OMV ride, I'd have to agree it isn't the safest for beginners. But its difficult to find any ride that combines a convenient starting place and a good mix of paces and experience to help beginners. It has occured to me several times that the beginning of the OMV rides are the worst part. Traffic is always a problem in Apex at that hour. There are several schools and grocery stores on the other side of Apex that might provide an easier starting place with quicker access to the rural roads.

[CharleyM3]

...We need more leaders to help with the groups since attendance has gotten so large. Anyone interested in helping with the 10-12 mph and 13-15 mph groups?...

I thought we talked about this before. I'll take a group once a month.

Jessica Those of us that have been hit by car as beginner know how you feel...

Or even as an experienced rider. I was hit last year the same way. My wife was also hit last year though her crash was her fault

Time to harpe If you have a crash with a car, call 911. If you have an altercation with a driver, call 911. Get the police involved immediately. It will heigten the awarness of every motorist that sees the scene, and it is the job of first responders to sort out these things.

Very sorry to hear about Ed. Does anyone know if the passing rider announced? Many passing riders are too cool or proud for that.

[RickF]

Let's set the record straight. Neither accident last night had anything to do with heavy traffic or the number or experience level of cyclists. Ed's accident involved one other cyclist and was at the end of the route in rural Chatham County. Traffic, the number of cyclists, and the experience level of the cyclists had nothing to do with causing the accident.

Jessica's mishap was at near the end of the ride. There was only one car on the road and only one other cyclist, experienced or otherwise, anywhere near Jessica (namely me). The driver made a stupid mistake, but it was not a malicious act like the stupid redneck in the pickup truck that ran me off the road while I was riding in Johnston County last year. That idiot knew what he was doing and purposefully swerved across the white line to force me off the road. I think the guy who turned in front of Jessica did not realize how fast we were going and that he had cut us off.

Perhaps it is because I grew up cycling in a big city, but I feel much more comfortable riding in heavy traffic than I do riding on an open country road where I do not know what is going to come flying at me over the next hill or around the next turn. Then there is the dog factor. I have never had a loose dog run in front of me in the city, but I have had it happen on the rural roads several times. If you hit a dog at 25 mph on a bicycle, neither you or the dog are going to come out of it uninjured.

We were all beginners once, and we all had our first time riding in traffic. Of all the cycling accidents I have witnessed over the past two years, Jessica's mishap was the only one that involved a beginner, and it did not happen because she was a beginner. All of the others accidents have involved experienced riders who had a mental lapse (including my spill on the April 21 ride from Cycling Spoken Here).

[Michelle W]

beginner riders should ride on the "used to be" sunday rides in cary on the bike lanes or come out to the Cyclepaths rides, which have VERY little traffic.

my $0.02

Are the Cyclepath rides now no drop? Last time I rode one it wasn't. They had a SAG driver on the course and at rest stops, but no one rode with a new/slower rider. Maybe I was spoiled by riding as a beginner with Slow Spokes, but it was comforting to know someone else was going to ride with me and be there if assistance was needed. Sometimes is was the encouragement that I could do it that was most important.

[Pugslyyy]

Does anyone know if the passing rider announced? Many passing riders are too cool or proud for that.

Huh? If you are passing a rider traveling at a steady speed in a straight line then there are certainly certain circumstances when you would want to announce. I'm not sure this was the case here, since I believe Ed was slowing and turning (possibly without signaling his intent).

I got messed up on a turn last year with some other riders (we had made a wrong turn and were turning around) and ended up going down to avoid hitting another rider. My fault, I thought the folks knew and were all turning, but I certainly didn't signal my intent. Fortunately for me it was low speed and controlled and didn't hurt me or the bike too badly.

Sorry if I'm jumping on you, but your comment seems a little one sided. Accidents happen with a certain inevitability, to even the most experienced riders (complacency?). And at the end of the day I think we are each responsible for being aware of our surroundings.

One of the things that last night showed was the effectiveness of our out-and-back everyone turn at the same time approach to riding. Even though there were many riders at many different paces, our ride format meant that a large group of us collected fairly quickly at the incident location.


Jon

[KarenG]

Are the Cyclepath rides now no drop? Last time I rode one it wasn't. They had a SAG driver on the course and at rest stops, but no one rode with a new/slower rider. Maybe I was spoiled by riding as a beginner with Slow Spokes, but it was comforting to know someone else was going to ride with me and be there if assistance was needed. Sometimes is was the encouragement that I could do it that was most important.

well, no, they aren't no drop, but there is always someone who rides at the pace you are going. i just don't get why people are so against riding with this group (or so it seems) because i'm spoiled by this group. guess you're spoiled by the slow spokes style...

maybe the meeting place for OMV rides should be changed to a different location??? i'm sure that there's somewhere in that area that might be a little further away from the city and have less traffic to deal with at the beginning of the ride.

i guess i don't feel that its as safe to ride over in that area at 6pm is why i don't do every ride. (well, for the past 2wks been out due to my knee, but still). even when the rides get out into the "country" there's still quite a bit of traffic due to all the development in southern wake county or whatever counties we've been riding in. so, although you are getting away from the city, there's still a lot of traffic. and the drivers are all in a hurry to get home and we just slow them up and cause them to become angry. then we have the drivers vs cyclists and people doing stupid things.

i realize Ed's accident didn't involve vehicular traffic, but, how do you signal the intent to u-turn?? enlighten me because i seriously don't know.

the vehicle thing with Jessica is typical of what i've encountered. they're in a hurry to make their turn so they pass us and then quickly make their turn, forgeting that we're going fairly fast and are gonna meet up with them quickly. or going around you in a hurry to make that all important left turn, for which they have to come to a stop and you about rear end them...

i ride mainly in the rural areas, so i'm used to dogs, have the Halt! ready to use. the biggest problem ive had in my area is people who want to pass on blind curves or on hills with oncoming traffic. stupid. risking my life, their life and the other person's life. city riding scares me just the way rural riding scares you Rick :rolleyes:.

anyways....

[Michelle W]

Karen. My comment wasn't intended to be seen as negative about the Cyclepaths. They are a good group of folks and it is a nice area to ride. I've ridden with Bob (I think that is his name...he has a recumbent) a few times and really enjoyed it. Its nice to have a change of scenery as well as increased average speed once in a while. I just wanted to clarify for any beginners that might be joining their rides that its not a no drop ride. I'm not sure everyone realizes how unique the SS group is in this aspect.

While there seems to be a lot of suggestions out there on how to improve the OMV ride, its not "our" ride. This is a long established ride and we've been invited to join. Perhaps Zonda and Jon could share the ideas about moving the start location, etc with Ed and David. Of course if the start/finish is moved, I'm sure going to miss coming back on Old Raleigh which is mostly downhill. It sure is a nice 'reward' after a good ride :D

PS for Karen..hope your knee is getting better.

[RickF]

It is not that I am against riding with the Cyclepaths, but I do not think their rides are good beginner rides. They tend to be long, flat, and are not no drop. They are perfect for their main purpose - to get experienced riders in shape to ride a long flat MS 150 ride, but they are not designed to teach beginners how to ride in a group.

Team Nortel and Team GSK have true beginner rides on Tuesdays (from Wilson Park in Carrboro) and Thrusdays (from the Circle K on Leesville Rd at Hickory Grove Church Road in NW Raleigh). These rides are slow (12 to 15 mph), short (16 to 20 miles), and no drop. They have leaders who teach basic riding skills such as riding in a group, pace lines, and gearing for hills.

The Cyclepath rides are fine if all you want to do is get in some miles and see how fast you can go, but they are not designed to teach people how to ride. The same is true of the OMV portion of the Wednesday rides. These rides are nothing more than a bunch of individuals who start and finish at the same place, but they do not teach riding skills.

What I try to do when I lead the slow group is teach technique to those who are interested in learning. Most of the folks I have worked with are younger than me and are in far better physical condition than I am, but I can drop them at will because I know what I am doing. I also know that by the end of the summer, these same riders will be dropping me (Dajuan already is, and Andrea will be soon), because their skill will improve much faster than my physical conditioning will. The goal of a beginner ride should be to keep the group together, keep it going as fast as the slowest person can manage, get people used to riding in groups, get people used to using their gears, and get people comfortable on the bike.

[Pugslyyy]

No ride is going to meet the needs of everyone. I enjoy my Wednesday evening OMV ride from Macgregor in Cary, and my Saturday morning CP ride from the Grocery Bag in Clayton.

I like the location and format of both, and don't really think that there are reasons to change either one. Each has its own quirks, pros, and cons. I grew up riding in traffic, so it doesn't bother me as much as it maybe should. The odds are that eventually someone will come too close to me and I'll get clipped by a mirror or run off the road or something. But everything in life has risks, and this is certainly not my most dangerous hobby.

Early in the season, the CP ride might be okay for beginners, but the rides quickly become too long. The circuit is also tougher for beginners - you have to complete the ride, not turn at whatever your personal halfway point is.

Another thing I am increasingly noticing is that every time I want to ride from the Grocery Bag it costs me almost $10 in gas round trip - not counting vehicle wear, etc.

The rides that I have some concerns about are the beginner Cary weekend store rides.

I would also be fine with us restarting the Sunday 7 or 14 mile bike path route in Cary. It is certainly easy enough for me to come out and lead / support and I have no issues with slowing down and enjoying the scenery and conversation for a ride like that. It is a nice safe, casual, enjoyable ride and probably the best way to introduce an _absolute_ beginner to road biking.

[Michelle W]

I also would be willing to help with the Sunday beginner ride. I can ride to/from the start for some extra miles. It sure is a good place to get used to traffic and riding on the road.

[CharleyM3]

Huh? ... Jon

I'm fairly suspicious of every rider I intend to pass so I announce often. I've inadvertently swerved in front of riders. A combination of I wasn't paying attention and they didn't announce. It takes both.

I have no idea what happened in Ed’s crash since I didn’t see it. My group turned early and we passed Ed still on his way out just short of the turn onto Martha Chapel.

As for changing OMV, Ed and David make that decision.

[Pugslyyy]

Last I checked, cars don't announce and they pass me all the time. You gotta know what is behind you before you make any erratic moves. Including slowing down - I almost messed Andrew up a few weeks ago because I thought he was slowing down with me but he wasn't.

[sportingfool]

You gotta know what is behind you before you make any erratic moves. Including slowing down - I almost messed Andrew up a few weeks ago because I thought he was slowing down with me but he wasn't.

I second that, Jon! I can think of at least 2 big mistakes that I made early in the ride last night, and I'm sure the folks behind me can probably point-out more than 2. Luckily, I had an experienced cyclist behind me who was paying attention (Thanks, Jackie!). Because I tend to fall to the back of the pack very quickly, I have become lazy with my signaling; and on the rare occasion that I end-up leading the pack, I sometimes forget that there are riders behind me. During my next few rides, I will make an extra effort to get back into the habit.
Andrea

[Michelle W]

For those wanting an update on Ed Downing, follow this link to the off topic discussion section

http://trianglecycling.com/showthread.php?p=208200#post208200

[BetsyW]

We need more leaders to help with the groups since attendance has gotten so large. Anyone interested in helping with the 10-12 mph and 13-15 mph groups? You don't have to lead at the front. You make sure each person is accounted for in your group and ride with the slowest person so no one gets dropped.

I am willing to help out with the 13-15 group but we may need to look at realistically who is riding at what speed. There is a big difference between 13 mph and 15 mph. I rode at the back of the 13-15 group this week and I averaged 14.5, Jackie was at the front of the 13-15 group and she averaged 15.1. There were 6 other people in between there, but I think 14.5 was the slowest. We stuck together because everyone waited at turns and we had a great ride, but if someone had been riding 13mph I'm not sure how it would have worked out. It may help to at least pair up in the beginning with one other person that you can ride with. If that person rides slower than you or has a bad night then you hang with them anyway and they would do the same for you if it was you riding slower. Also, if there are any true beginners I think it's a good idea to stick with the slower group for the first ride or so regardless of their pace. It doesn't hurt to get out there at a slower pace and get used to riding with traffic. If you're too busy trying to catch up to a group you thought you could ride with then you may be paying less attention to what's around you.

[RickF]

We stuck together because everyone waited at turns and we had a great ride, but if someone had been riding 13mph I'm not sure how it would have worked out. It may help to at least pair up in the beginning with one other person that you can ride with. If that person rides slower than you or has a bad night then you hang with them anyway and they would do the same for you if it was you riding slower. This is they key to good group rides (as opposed to a group of riders who happen to start and end at the same place). Especially in the slower groups, the group should form at the start, and the riders should stay together as a group. That means that some riders will be going slower than they might be capible of going, and some will be really pushing to keep up with the group, but the group should stay together.

These rides are not races, and they are not individual time trials. Of course, all 26 Slow Spokes plus the OMV riders are not going to stay together in one group, but several groups of three to ten riders should form up based on relative speeds. I do not know what happened to the six people who were supposed to have been in the 10 to 12 mph group last night. I stayed with Jessica, since she was the slowest in the group, and we averaged 12.1 mph!. Unfortunately, we were dropped on the hill on Old Raleigh Road by the rest of our group. It is not my job to chase down those who breakaway, but personally, I think it is poor form to breakaway from a group that you have declared you are going to ride with - at least for that one ride. If you want to ride with a faster group the next time, that is fine, but I think it would be best for everyone if we keep our small subgroups together for the entire ride.

If you look at my stats from this year, I have averaged anywhere from 11.9 mph to 17.2 mph. Those differences are not because I have good days and bad days, but because I choose to stay with my group. I want to ride as fast as the slowest person in my group can manage, but no faster. This is the spirit of a no drop ride.

[CharleyM3]

Last I checked, cars don't announce and they pass me all the time...

Yes they do. They make a hell of a bunch of noise and even I can always hear them before they come up beside me. Not true with bikes. Makes more sense to me to err to the side of caution.

[Pugslyyy]

Yes, but I think where we disagree is that I believe that I err on the side of caution by not expecting that rider/car/tricycle/flying saucer/etc coming up on me to have signaled his or her intent - I always try to visually verify that the way is clear before initiating a maneuver like slowing or especially turning.

[williamtash]

I agree with Rick on the sub groups I think they should stay together during the whole ride that is what the sub groups were for. I am one of the slowest riders and I have been left back by the group. As a matter of fact it happened last saturdays ride I had a chain problem and Bess who was riding with me and Then Zonda stop to wait for us by the man group was still riding and we had not gotten to the split yet into the sub groups. So I think that Ricks stay with the slowest rider in your sub group is the way to go. I might be out of line but i thought That was what the sub group were designed for

[Pugslyyy]

I agree, especially with the lower speed sub groups. It seems like the faster speed groups can be a lot more fluid, with people moving forward and back over the duration of the ride.

If I'm riding with a newer rider I definitely will slow down and ride in with them as they bonk at the end of the ride. I'm much less likely to drop a stranger than a friend!

[CharleyM3]

Yes, but I think where we disagree is that I believe that I err on the side of caution by not expecting that rider/car/tricycle/flying saucer/etc coming up on me to have signaled his or her intent - I always try to visually verify that the way is clear before initiating a maneuver like slowing or especially turning.

I don't think that we disagree. I too try to keep abreast of what's happening around me and check before I move, hold my line, etc., but sometimes I forget or just have a cerebral phase out. It happens.

Courtesy costs nothing, but pays huge dividends in good will. Communication is everything riding in a group. It keeps everyone safer.

[Zonda]

I'll have to comment on this thread over the weekend.

[KathyB]

I rode with the 13-15 group, and really enjoyed myself. Thanks to all of you!

We did let ourselves fan out. I probably contributed to this because I'm a newbie, and didn't really pick up on the protocol. It was also hard to know who was in the group, because we overlapped at times with some 10-12s, and also with riders not connected with the group.

But Jackie did a great job pulling us back together at stops & turns. So for the final half of the ride, we had a pretty solid group of 8.

I think it's fine to agree either 1) that faster riders will wait at stops & turns for slower riders; or 2) to stay together, and ride at the slowest rider's pace. Either way, I would suggest a bit more organization at the ride start. It helps to count noses and make introductions before we roll, so all of us can help be responsible for ensuring that we're all together.

I would be happy to volunteer to lead the 10-12 or the 13-15 occasionally, provided I get enough advance warning, and you also give me a bit of time to get more familiar with the regular routes (I'm a Durhamite, and I get lost in Cary!).

[Zonda]

Thanks for the comments. Sorry this is so late. I've had a very busy week.

I think Jon is correct. No ride is going to meet the needs of everyone.

Frederike has suggested the OMV ride be moved to a different location. It’s Ed’s preference to ride from MacGregor Village. We can ride anywhere, but I accepted their invitation to lead a slow group for OMV. This has been our most highly attended ride (20-25 riders each week), so I’m hesitant to change it. Also, David and Ed provide the cue sheets for us. I think Ed said they have 200 routes for OMV. Changing the location creates additional work for them revising cue sheets. I think riders encounter traffic in most locations riding at 6:00 p.m. during the week.

I agree with Rick about helping new riders learn how to ride better, but our group has grown and we need more people to help with that. I thought it was a good time to solicit additional help with the high attendance Wednesday (26 or more riders). Michelle and I did not ride Wednesday. Having several leaders available fills the gap when one of us has to be away and helps provide more structure and guidance to the slower groups. Thanks to those of you who said you are willing to help.

Charley, I solicited you to help with the Saturday rides because only Sandy and I were leading. Michelle and Rick have been helping with the Wednesday rides.

I have no plans to organize a beginner ride on the Cary/Lochmere beginner route (http://www.trianglecycling.com/showthread.php?t=18177). I’m already overcommitted organizing two rides a week and both of these rides are open to beginners. Those who said you wouldn’t mind leading a beginner ride on Sundays, feel free to do so whenever you can. If more people could help even once a month, that would help a lot. We are providing a great service to the cycling community.

Kathy B., I organize the riding groups. Just ask about my clipboard… :p It was the first time I wasn't there to organize the groups and we had a lot of new riders. It's nice to know that the effort does make a difference. I'll solicit a volunteer to play me next time I can't ride and I'll even loan them my clip board if they want...;)

I heard from Jessica. She will ride again and won't give up...:D She wants to do triathlons, so she's gotta work it out!

I want to continue riding OMV.