Re: 650B update - Its coming!

[Tim McNamara]

In article <95n193la1lcusp2sed6vjq3gb1higjg94u@4ax.com>,
still me <wheeledBob@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 00:53:34 -0500, Tim McNamara
> <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> >http://www.rivbike.com/v/misc/seatlug.jpg.html
> >
> >The nut fits into a recess in the lug to keep it form turning. The
> >head of the allen bolt fits into a similar recess on the other side.
>
> You can use a standard bolt, nut, and a couple of washers on most any
> frame I ride. A couple of wrenches and you're all set, allen head not
> even needed. That's even better than the proprietary design from Riv.
> But, a "seatpost bolt" looks a lot nicer. Same with the Riv bike -
> the bolt and nut thing is so "ug".
>
> Not to mention, while you can probably find a replacement bolt if you
> look in the right places, you won't find them in the right length,
> with the allen head, and in the right material and finish at every
> hardware store. I know my local hardware store has an extensive
> selection of small hardware but there's only a box or two of allen
> head bolts and hitting the right length, material, and finish would
> be unlikely. Chances are I'd be ordering from McMaster Carr or
> calling Riv.
>
> So, it is just another non-standard part that has to be stocked
> because Riv wanted to fix a problem that didn't exist.

Ya just can't make some people happy, I guess.

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Jul 8, 10:52 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> In article <95n193la1lcusp2sed6vjq3gb1higjg...@4ax.com>,
> still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 00:53:34 -0500, Tim McNamara
> > <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > >http://www.rivbike.com/v/misc/seatlug.jpg.html
>
> > >The nut fits into a recess in the lug to keep it form turning. The
> > >head of the allen bolt fits into a similar recess on the other side.
>
> > You can use a standard bolt, nut, and a couple of washers on most any
> > frame I ride. A couple of wrenches and you're all set, allen head not
> > even needed. That's even better than the proprietary design from Riv.
> > But, a "seatpost bolt" looks a lot nicer. Same with the Riv bike -
> > the bolt and nut thing is so "ug".
>
> > Not to mention, while you can probably find a replacement bolt if you
> > look in the right places, you won't find them in the right length,
> > with the allen head, and in the right material and finish at every
> > hardware store. I know my local hardware store has an extensive
> > selection of small hardware but there's only a box or two of allen
> > head bolts and hitting the right length, material, and finish would
> > be unlikely. Chances are I'd be ordering from McMaster Carr or
> > calling Riv.
>
> > So, it is just another non-standard part that has to be stocked
> > because Riv wanted to fix a problem that didn't exist.
>
> Ya just can't make some people happy, I guess.-


Oh ya.....lessee now, Riv is so concerned about the welfare of their
customers that they provide an easy-to-find-anywhere binder bolt, but
want them to buy hard-to-find-anywhere wheels and tires!

Silly me, I keep forgetting that binder bolts are routinely replaced,
but tires last the life of the frame! ;-)

[Luigi de Guzman]

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 09:46:46 -0700, Ozark Bicycle wrote:

>
> Oh ya.....lessee now, Riv is so concerned about the welfare of their
> customers that they provide an easy-to-find-anywhere binder bolt, but
> want them to buy hard-to-find-anywhere wheels and tires!

I really don't understand where the antipathy is coming from. If the
wheel/tire combination solves one rider's problem, and that rider isn't
too fussed about the spotty availability, so what?



>
> Silly me, I keep forgetting that binder bolts are routinely replaced,
> but tires last the life of the frame! ;-)



--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Jul 8, 1:32 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 09:46:46 -0700, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
> > Oh ya.....lessee now, Riv is so concerned about the welfare of their
> > customers that they provide an easy-to-find-anywhere binder bolt, but
> > want them to buy hard-to-find-anywhere wheels and tires!
>
> I really don't understand where the antipathy is coming from. If the
> wheel/tire combination solves one rider's problem

What problem is being solved in a *new* frame "designed" to use the
moribund 650B wheel size v. 559 ("26 inch") or 622 ("700C")?

The very small number of riders seeking to convert a very small number
of supposedly narrow clearance frames from 700C to 650B is another
matter entirely. Those numbers are a flyspeck in the ocean.


>, and that rider isn't
> too fussed about the spotty availability, so what?


Ask a Raleigh Portage owner....
>
>
>
> > Silly me, I keep forgetting that binder bolts are routinely replaced,
> > but tires last the life of the frame! ;-)
>
> --

[Tim McNamara]

In article <X4aki.242048$dC2.139604@newsfe13.lga>,
Luigi de Guzman <luigi12081@cox.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 09:46:46 -0700, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> >
> > Oh ya.....lessee now, Riv is so concerned about the welfare of
> > their customers that they provide an easy-to-find-anywhere binder
> > bolt, but want them to buy hard-to-find-anywhere wheels and tires!

I can go to my LBS and have my choice of two different model of 650B
rims and four models of 650B tires not to mention three models of
bicycles, so they are not "hard-to-find-anywhere" (except maybe at
Ozark's shop).

Ozark- who generally acts like an idiot on r.b.t. and is best ignored-
is obviously not able to get an account with QBP, or he'd know that 650B
is now an easy-to-get size. Whether or not shops *want* to stock 650B
is of course up to them, but at least they *can* stock 650B quite
easily. Anybody in the US can obtain 650B equipment pretty much
overnight now, even if their LBS doesn't stock it.

> I really don't understand where the antipathy is coming from. If the
> wheel/tire combination solves one rider's problem, and that rider
> isn't too fussed about the spotty availability, so what?

There is an astonishing hostility towards Grant Petersen on Usenet. It
started when Petersen was at Bridgestone and has continued since. I
find it quite amusing that there is so much negative energy focused on a
guy who runs a tiny bike business in a suburb of San Francisco, who
basically just sells the stuff he likes to use. I particularly enjoy
the attempts to label Rivendell customers as a "cult" that comes from
the cult of newer-better-lighter members. Of course, every good cultist
believes that their particular religion is the One Truth.

[* * Chas]

"Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in message
news:1183920884.378347.264450@c77g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
> On Jul 8, 1:32 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net> wrote:
> > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 09:46:46 -0700, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> >
> > > Oh ya.....lessee now, Riv is so concerned about the welfare of their
> > > customers that they provide an easy-to-find-anywhere binder bolt,
but
> > > want them to buy hard-to-find-anywhere wheels and tires!
> >
> > I really don't understand where the antipathy is coming from. If the
> > wheel/tire combination solves one rider's problem
>
> What problem is being solved in a *new* frame "designed" to use the
> moribund 650B wheel size v. 559 ("26 inch") or 622 ("700C")?
>
> The very small number of riders seeking to convert a very small number
> of supposedly narrow clearance frames from 700C to 650B is another
> matter entirely. Those numbers are a flyspeck in the ocean.
>
>
> >, and that rider isn't
> > too fussed about the spotty availability, so what?
>
>
> Ask a Raleigh Portage owner....
> >

I can see folks needing 650B tires on small sized frames or frames with
minimal clearance with 700Cs but come on....

700C tires or tyres are available in sizes from 18mm to 52mm with just
about any kind of tread from slicks to humongous MTB knobbies.

What more could you want?

Chas.

[Luigi de Guzman]

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 11:54:44 -0700, Ozark Bicycle wrote:

>
> What problem is being solved in a *new* frame "designed" to use the
> moribund 650B wheel size v. 559 ("26 inch") or 622 ("700C")?
>
> The very small number of riders seeking to convert a very small number
> of supposedly narrow clearance frames from 700C to 650B is another
> matter entirely. Those numbers are a flyspeck in the ocean.

And once again-- so what?

The only guys offering new, purpose-built 650B frames are low-volume,
high-price framebuilders, whose target market has both the money to pay
for their products and a full understanding of its potential shortcomings
and risks.

A flyspeck in the ocean, as you say. So why get your blood pressure up
worrying about it? It's not as if the 650B "movement" is being rammed
down the throats of the consuming masses, or that the existing 559 and 622
wheel sizes are being withdrawn.

>>, and that rider isn't
>> too fussed about the spotty availability, so what?
>
>
> Ask a Raleigh Portage owner....

Sure; tires for the Raleigh DL-1 aren't too available in the U.S. either.
But plenty of rod-brake "sit-up-and-beg" roadsters are still running
reliably everywhere in the world.

It's a big ocean--why get worked-up about a flyspeck?


--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com

[still me]

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 11:54:44 -0700, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:

>What problem is being solved in a *new* frame "designed" to use the
>moribund 650B wheel size v. 559 ("26 inch") or 622 ("700C")?


At least we can all take solace in the fact that there's no 800 lb
gorilla in the industry like Microsoft who can simply adopt some new
"standard" that they've developed specifically to make another area of
their industry proprietary, force it down the throats of users, and
thereby move further along their path to world domination.

[Tim McNamara]

In article <Qqbki.10191$K73.672@newsfe13.lga>,
Luigi de Guzman <luigi12081@cox.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 11:54:44 -0700, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
> >
> > What problem is being solved in a *new* frame "designed" to use the
> > moribund 650B wheel size v. 559 ("26 inch") or 622 ("700C")?
> >
> > The very small number of riders seeking to convert a very small
> > number of supposedly narrow clearance frames from 700C to 650B is
> > another matter entirely. Those numbers are a flyspeck in the ocean.
>
> And once again-- so what?
>
> The only guys offering new, purpose-built 650B frames are low-volume,
> high-price framebuilders, whose target market has both the money to
> pay for their products and a full understanding of its potential
> shortcomings and risks.

Is Quality Bicycle Products a "low volume, high price framebuilder?"
They distribute the Bleriot 650B frame which will set you back $750
(very high priced as far as most people are concerned, as most people
don't want to spend that much for a whole bike). Any bike shop with a
QBP account can stock them. Or you can buy a Kogswell P/R 650B frame
which is $540. For the more parsimonious or people who enjoy tinkering,
it's quite straightforward to convert many 700C frames to take 650Bs.

> A flyspeck in the ocean, as you say. So why get your blood pressure
> up worrying about it? It's not as if the 650B "movement" is being
> rammed down the throats of the consuming masses, or that the existing
> 559 and 622 wheel sizes are being withdrawn.
>
> >> and that rider isn't too fussed about the spotty availability, so
> >> what?
> >
> > Ask a Raleigh Portage owner....
>
> Sure; tires for the Raleigh DL-1 aren't too available in the U.S.
> either. But plenty of rod-brake "sit-up-and-beg" roadsters are still
> running reliably everywhere in the world.
>
> It's a big ocean--why get worked-up about a flyspeck?

Exactly. But people do, lots of the time. You'd think Grant Petersen
was personally inoculating mosquitos with West Nile virus.

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Jul 8, 4:09 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> In article <X4aki.242048$dC2.139...@newsfe13.lga>,
> Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 09:46:46 -0700, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
> > > Oh ya.....lessee now, Riv is so concerned about the welfare of
> > > their customers that they provide an easy-to-find-anywhere binder
> > > bolt, but want them to buy hard-to-find-anywhere wheels and tires!
>
> I can go to my LBS and have my choice of two different model of 650B
> rims

Wow!!! *Two*!!!! different rims!

>and four models of 650B tires

WOW!!! *Four, count 'em _four_ * models of tires!!!!


>not to mention three models of
> bicycles, so they are not "hard-to-find-anywhere" (except maybe at
> Ozark's shop).


Not one (count 'em, not one!) shop *anywhere* around here stocks any
650B.


>
> Ozark- who generally acts like an idiot on r.b.t. and is best ignored-


....and screw you, Timmy McNamara - clear enough for ya?

[Michael Press]

In article
<timmcn-1A8986.16172408072007@news.iphouse.com>,
Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:

> Exactly. But people do, lots of the time. You'd think Grant Petersen
> was personally inoculating mosquitos with West Nile virus.

He is?

--
Michael Press

[Luigi de Guzman]

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 20:15:10 -0700, Michael Press wrote:

> In article
> <timmcn-1A8986.16172408072007@news.iphouse.com>,
> Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
>> Exactly. But people do, lots of the time. You'd think Grant Petersen
>> was personally inoculating mosquitos with West Nile virus.
>
> He is?
>

The same way Jobst Brandt eats children.

/hides.

--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Jul 10, 2:25 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 20:15:10 -0700, Michael Press wrote:
> > In article
> > <timmcn-1A8986.16172408072...@news.iphouse.com>,
> > Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> >> Exactly. But people do, lots of the time. You'd think Grant Petersen
> >> was personally inoculating mosquitos with West Nile virus.
>
> > He is?
>
> The same way Jobst Brandt eats children.
>

Roasted in a 350F oven, 15 minutes per pound and served au jus?

[Luigi de Guzman]

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:33:30 -0700, Ozark Bicycle wrote:

> On Jul 10, 2:25 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 20:15:10 -0700, Michael Press wrote:
>> > In article
>> > <timmcn-1A8986.16172408072...@news.iphouse.com>,
>> > Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>>
>> >> Exactly. But people do, lots of the time. You'd think Grant Petersen
>> >> was personally inoculating mosquitos with West Nile virus.
>>
>> > He is?
>>
>> The same way Jobst Brandt eats children.
>>
>
> Roasted in a 350F oven, 15 minutes per pound and served au jus?


Please. That's 177 C, 30 minutes per kilo. Serve with a good Bordeaux.

-Luigi

whose sense of humor (sometimes) holds up well to flames.
--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com

[landotter]

On Jul 10, 2:33 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> On Jul 10, 2:25 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 20:15:10 -0700, Michael Press wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <timmcn-1A8986.16172408072...@news.iphouse.com>,
> > > Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > >> Exactly. But people do, lots of the time. You'd think Grant Petersen
> > >> was personally inoculating mosquitos with West Nile virus.
>
> > > He is?
>
> > The same way Jobst Brandt eats children.
>
> Roasted in a 350F oven, 15 minutes per pound and served au jus?

I always wondered about his collection of little shoes.

[bfd]

On Jul 10, 1:56 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:33:30 -0700, Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > On Jul 10, 2:25 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 20:15:10 -0700, Michael Press wrote:
> >> > In article
> >> > <timmcn-1A8986.16172408072...@news.iphouse.com>,
> >> > Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> >> >> Exactly. But people do, lots of the time. You'd think Grant Petersen
> >> >> was personally inoculating mosquitos with West Nile virus.
>
> >> > He is?
>
> >> The same way Jobst Brandt eats children.
>
> > Roasted in a 350F oven, 15 minutes per pound and served au jus?
>
> Please. That's 177 C, 30 minutes per kilo. Serve with a good Bordeaux.
>
A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava
beans and a nice Chianti. - Silence of the Lamb

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Jul 10, 5:07 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 10, 2:33 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 10, 2:25 pm, Luigi de Guzman <luigi12...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 20:15:10 -0700, Michael Press wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > <timmcn-1A8986.16172408072...@news.iphouse.com>,
> > > > Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > >> Exactly. But people do, lots of the time. You'd think Grant Petersen
> > > >> was personally inoculating mosquitos with West Nile virus.
>
> > > > He is?
>
> > > The same way Jobst Brandt eats children.
>
> > Roasted in a 350F oven, 15 minutes per pound and served au jus?
>
> I always wondered about his collection of little shoes.-


And the lil' step stool in front of the oven?