View Full Version : Re: OT: Constitutional Amendment discovered this week
dustoyevsky@mac.com
12-31-1969, 08:00 PM
On Jun 27, 4:21?am, Gunner <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
(I wrote):
>Tet cost too many American (all we Americans really worry about)
> >lives, too close together.
(Gunner answered)
> During the entire month of January in 1968..we lost a total of 1163.
> Actually down a bit from the previous months.
The exact "numbers" don't matter. The fact that Tet was a disaster for
the North didn't matter. The fact that a supposedly beaten enemy could
seemingly rise from all corners at once mattered.
Similarly, the VA hospital scandals during the Iraq "war' (undeclared,
end run around the Constitution), matter.
(I wrote):
Ho was right about what would happen with USA involvement.
(reply):
> Again you show your true colors..stupid.
Ho was right, I quoted him, and I'm stupid?
(more apparently willful misunderstanding):
> Blink blink..the military leadership doesnt have anything to do with the
> funding, you ****wit. They can only fight with what they are given.
No picking fights according to what you have to fight with?
That was a little unfair. I understand a big part of the reason for
the humiliating defeat in Vietnam was the militar's being forced to
fight a "war of dipomacy", where, as in the previous humiliating
defeat, the Korean "war" (undeclared, end run around the
Constitution), the enemy was chased into safe hiding (one example);
Hanoi was not bombed until well after they had set up AA defences,
etc.
> After 40 yrs of ever increasing taxes from the Left..it [Cheney-Bush >tax cut] was quite refreshing.
And the torturers and secret detainers were given free rein. That's
the "selling your soul" part.
> Vietnam was all about oil? Really?
That's not one bit what I said.
> Btw..JFK and LBJ were Demonrats.
Who cares?
(I wrote):
> >Loved the section on Hitler and labor relations, fine resonance there.
> >Complain, disappear. The skids are being greased. All very fine and
> >necessary until they come for Gunner.
> Snicker..shiney side out, ****tard..and I suggest two layers.
"Gunner thinks he is safe". --D-y
Bill C
01-03-1970, 07:12 AM
On Jun 28, 10:02 am, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com>
wrote:
> On Jun 27, 4:21?am, Gunner <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
> (I wrote):
>
..
> (more apparently willful misunderstanding):
>
> > Blink blink..the military leadership doesnt have anything to do with the
> > funding, you ****wit. They can only fight with what they are given.
>
> No picking fights according to what you have to fight with?
The leadership at the Pentagon insisted that they could do this on
the cheap, out quickly, no need for large numbers of troops and anyone
who dared to speak against this was run out of town and retired, or
reassigned by the duo of Rumsfeld Cheney.
Same deal as cooking the intel. The Pentagon leadership told them
whatever they wanted to hear as it related to troops levels, funding,
and the course of operations. It was all BS and the troops on the
ground are paying for it, along with those Iraqis who would've been
with us if the had a little security, jobs, and the necessities of
life.
>
>
> "Gunner thinks he is safe". --D-y
It absolutely amazes me that these so called "military professionals"
continue to support screwing our troops every which way possible, and
praise the people doing it. They've gotta be bootlicking, ass-kissing,
political REMFs who don't give a **** about their troops, just their
"Career Paths" and "ticket punching".
Hackworth called the Pentagon weasels "Perfumed Princes" because they
were, and totally out of touch with the reality on the ground.
There's a lot more **** flying around "rumor control" about the
troops that were kidnapped from the roadblock and killed. Lots of
people who were with the unit are saying flat out that the commanders
are lieing their asses off when they deny they left them out there way
too long with no support. It appears this was SOP for other units in
that area earlier also. Seems to be a pretty standard practice, though
they are denying it. The guys on the ground are saying they are
stretched WAY too thin. The Iraqi forces are mostly useless or worse.
Most of the units officers above O-3 only come out of their basecamps
to do photo-ops, and damge control after **** happens. No actual
checking on the troops and their positions.
Guess all the grunts are lieing sacks of **** like their commanders
keep saying after every fiasco or when they file Congressional
complaints.
Almost total leadership failure combined with piss poor planning.
Good troops are getting screwed by their own leaders(nothing new) and
Gunners cheering it on and pretending it's not happening, but I must
be an ignorant commie too for saying it.
Bill C
Cliff
01-03-1970, 07:12 AM
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 07:02:42 -0700, "dustoyevsky@mac.com" <dustoyevsky@mac.com>
wrote:
>(more apparently willful misunderstanding):
>> Blink blink..the military leadership doesnt have anything to do with the
>> funding, you ****wit. They can only fight with what they are given.
>
>No picking fights according to what you have to fight with?
"Never Enter Into a Battle of Wits with a Person Who is Unarmed!"
--
Cliff
Cliff
01-03-1970, 07:12 AM
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 07:02:42 -0700, "dustoyevsky@mac.com" <dustoyevsky@mac.com>
wrote:
>> After 40 yrs of ever increasing taxes from the Left..it [Cheney-Bush >tax cut] was quite refreshing.
Not a tax cut. A huge increase in your debts, at best. Plus compounded
interest. Those making less than ~ $150,000/Year saw no real decrease
in taxes IIRC.
>And the torturers and secret detainers were given free rein. That's
>the "selling your soul" part.
http://www.markfiore.com/animation/intel.html
http://www.markfiore.com/animation/knuckles.html
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0547,fiore,70175,9.html
http://www.markfiore.com/animation/see.html
--
Cliff
Gunner
01-03-1970, 07:12 AM
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 07:02:42 -0700, "dustoyevsky@mac.com"
<dustoyevsky@mac.com> wrote:
>On Jun 27, 4:21?am, Gunner <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>(I wrote):
>
> >Tet cost too many American (all we Americans really worry about)
>> >lives, too close together.
>
>(Gunner answered)
>> During the entire month of January in 1968..we lost a total of 1163.
>> Actually down a bit from the previous months.
>
>The exact "numbers" don't matter. The fact that Tet was a disaster for
>the North didn't matter. The fact that a supposedly beaten enemy could
>seemingly rise from all corners at once mattered.
>
Son..they didnt "rise from all corners" all at once. It was a desperate
Hail Mary attempt before Giap tossed in the towel. They had illusions
that the poor bastards who were the citizens, would rise with them.
Oooops. They didnt. If anyone had thought the VC had a chinamans <G>
chance in hell..the villagers Would have risen up. The fact that they
didnt indicated that the VC was beaten and was on its last legs. And
because of their miscalculation...not only did it come to naught..but
after Tet..there were few surviving VC anywhere in the South.
We. Killed. Them. All.
No matter how desperately you try to spin the fact that the Libtards and
the Libtard media created the will to continue to fight..costing at
least ANOTHER 25,000 American dead, and at least another half million
Vietnamese dead..its still the facts.
The Left, then, as today, has a long long history of giving comfort,
support and strength to the enemies of the US, and in doing so...ALWAYS
prolong the bloodshed. It seems af if you fuctards on the Left WANT
more dead and carnage. Gods know you use the same ploy time after time
after time.
Snip buffoonery
>> Blink blink..the military leadership doesnt have anything to do with the
>> funding, you ****wit. They can only fight with what they are given.
>
>No picking fights according to what you have to fight with?
No one "picks fights". You have objectives and make missions to reach
those objectives. You traitorous Leftards prevent the means to reach
those objectives, and then blame it on the miltiary.
>
>That was a little unfair. I understand a big part of the reason for
>the humiliating defeat in Vietnam was the militar's being forced to
>fight a "war of dipomacy", where, as in the previous humiliating
>defeat, the Korean "war" (undeclared, end run around the
>Constitution), the enemy was chased into safe hiding (one example);
>Hanoi was not bombed until well after they had set up AA defences,
>etc.
What humilitating defeat? We had WON. The South was firmly in control
of the South when we left in 1973. Then the Dems cut off funding. Ive
already provided the citations, which you obviously dont want anyone to
read, as you have not even attempted to refute them, let along post them
to refute.
Which just shows that your revisionism is so heinious that nothing you
write can have any shred of legitimacy.
>
>> After 40 yrs of ever increasing taxes from the Left..it [Cheney-Bush >tax cut] was quite refreshing.
>
>And the torturers and secret detainers were given free rein. That's
>the "selling your soul" part.
Snicker...wow..thats a stretch..putting womens panties on combatants
heads is somehow linked to the Bush tax cuts.
Your utter buffoonery and bull**** is writ large..with a crayon.
>
>> Vietnam was all about oil? Really?
>
>That's not one bit what I said.
Yes, it was.
>
>> Btw..JFK and LBJ were Demonrats.
>
>Who cares?
ROFLMAO!! Not a Leftard. Such data points are completely ignored.
Which just goes to further reinforce the depths of hypocrasy you Useful
Idiots will stoop to.
>
>(I wrote):
>> >Loved the section on Hitler and labor relations, fine resonance there.
>> >Complain, disappear. The skids are being greased. All very fine and
>> >necessary until they come for Gunner.
>
>> Snicker..shiney side out, ****tard..and I suggest two layers.
>
>"Gunner thinks he is safe". --D-y
Watch out for those Vast RightWing Conspriacy mind control rays being
beamed at you from those black helicopters flown by New World Order
pilots and chartered by the Masons and the Illuminati.
Laugh laugh laugh
Gunner
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dustoyevsky@mac.com
01-03-1970, 07:13 AM
On Jun 28, 11:07 pm, Gunner <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
> Son..
Praise to the orgnizing forces of the Universe (if any) I am not your
"son".
Besides being approx. your same age.
> they didnt "rise from all corners" all at once. It was a desperate
> Hail Mary attempt before Giap tossed in the towel. They had illusions
> that the poor bastards who were the citizens, would rise with them.
> Oooops. They didnt.
Like being met with flowers in Iraq... ? Oops???
> If anyone had thought the VC had a chinamans <G>
> chance in hell..the villagers Would have risen up. The fact that they
> didnt indicated that the VC was beaten and was on its last legs. And
> because of their miscalculation...not only did it come to naught..but
> after Tet..there were few surviving VC anywhere in the South.
>
> We. Killed. Them. All.
Not what Wiki says:
<Although US public opinion polls continued to show a majority
supporting involvement in the war, this support continued to
deteriorate and the nation became increasingly polarized over the war.
[18] President Lyndon Johnson saw his popularity fall sharply after
the Offensive, and he withdrew as a candidate for re-election in March
of 1968. The Tet Offensive is frequently seen as an example of the
value of media influence and popular opinion in the pursuit of
military objectives. That the Communists were able to mount a major,
country-wide assault at all was a blow to U.S. hopes of winning the
war rapidly, and starkly called into question General Westmoreland's
earlier public reports of progress in the War. Likewise, the
optimistic assessments of the Johnson administration and The Pentagon
came under heavy criticism and ridicule.>
Maybe it took awhile for the correct info to "settle", but in spite of
heavy losses esp. in their city and army base attacks, the VC
consolidated power in the countryside (same Wiki article, <http://
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tet_Offensive>).
Or, if you want to disallow Wiki on that point, the above humilation
of the Johnson administration is exactly what I'm talking about--
after Tet, it was much harder for the civilian/military authorities to
do whatever they wanted (incl. bombing those phone booths) in Viet
Nam.
The "numbers" (kill ratio) didn't carry the day in the court of public
opinion.
> No matter how desperately you try to spin the fact that the Libtards and
> the Libtard media created the will to continue to fight..costing at
> least ANOTHER 25,000 American dead, and at least another half million
> Vietnamese dead..its still the facts.
The Hawks had control of the country (USA). They should have gone in
there to win, instead of fighting a war of "diplomacy".
> The Left, then, as today, has a long long history of giving comfort,
> support and strength to the enemies of the US, and in doing so...ALWAYS
> prolong the bloodshed. It seems af if you fuctards on the Left WANT
> more dead and carnage. Gods know you use the same ploy time after time
> after time.
Like Nixon's bombing of rice paddies? Seen rightfully as an act of
cowardice, giving great "comfort and aid".
> No one "picks fights". You have objectives and make missions to reach
> those objectives. You traitorous Leftards prevent the means to reach
> those objectives, and then blame it on the miltiary.
OK. "Pick objectives". And so forth.
Traitor? Iran-Contra. There's a collection of traitors for you.
> What humilitating defeat? We had WON. The South was firmly in control
> of the South when we left in 1973. Then the Dems cut off funding. Ive
> already provided the citations, which you obviously dont want anyone to
> read, as you have not even attempted to refute them, let along post them
> to refute.
>
> Which just shows that your revisionism is so heinious that nothing you
> write can have any shred of legitimacy.
Post them again.
>
> Snicker...wow..thats a stretch..putting womens panties on combatants
> heads is somehow linked to the Bush tax cuts.
Tax cuts that helped (big-time) elect the administration that has
secret prisons, and tortures prisoners. Even with rumblings of a wider
problem than Gitmo being heard.
> Your utter buffoonery and bull**** is writ large..with a crayon.
Color me Patriot. I'm teaching my kids not to suffer and die for the
bastards in power. --D-y
Cliff
01-03-1970, 07:13 AM
On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 04:07:04 GMT, Gunner <gunner@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 07:02:42 -0700, "dustoyevsky@mac.com"
><dustoyevsky@mac.com> wrote:
>
>>On Jun 27, 4:21?am, Gunner <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>>(I wrote):
>>
>> >Tet cost too many American (all we Americans really worry about)
>>> >lives, too close together.
>>
>>(Gunner answered)
>>> During the entire month of January in 1968..we lost a total of 1163.
>>> Actually down a bit from the previous months.
>>
>>The exact "numbers" don't matter. The fact that Tet was a disaster for
>>the North didn't matter. The fact that a supposedly beaten enemy could
>>seemingly rise from all corners at once mattered.
>>
>
>Son..they didnt "rise from all corners" all at once. It was a desperate
>Hail Mary attempt before Giap tossed in the towel. They had illusions
>that the poor bastards who were the citizens, would rise with them.
>Oooops. They didnt. If anyone had thought the VC had a chinamans <G>
>chance in hell..the villagers Would have risen up. The fact that they
>didnt indicated that the VC was beaten and was on its last legs. And
>because of their miscalculation...not only did it come to naught..but
>after Tet..there were few surviving VC anywhere in the South.
>
>We. Killed. Them. All.
How odd then that they ended up with control of most of the
rural areas. The dead?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tet_Offensive
[
According to David Schmitz "The Tet Offensive demonstrated that the United
States could not win a limited war of attrition in Vietnam and had to change
policy. In these terms, Tet was, in fact, a defeat. (Schmitz 165)
However to defend from the attacks on urban areas U.S and ARVN forces withdrew
from the countryside allowing the communist to increase control there.
]
--
Cliff
Gunner
01-03-1970, 07:14 AM
On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 08:25:23 -0700, "dustoyevsky@mac.com"
<dustoyevsky@mac.com> wrote:
>> We. Killed. Them. All.
>
>Not what Wiki says:
Why not go straight to the source?
http://www.viet-myths.net/buitin.htm
Thank you for playing, you may pick up your consolation prize on your
way out the door marked Buffoons Exit..
As for teaching your kids anything...snicker....leftards only teach
their kids to be leftards, buffoons and leeches on the nation. Thats
all they can understand, and all they can be. Liberalism is a mental
illness and having mentally ill people as
teachers....shrug....frankly..thats pretty much tantamount to child
abuse.
Gunner
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dustoyevsky@mac.com
01-03-1970, 07:14 AM
On Jun 29, 11:51 am, Gunner <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>
> Why not go straight to the source?
>
> http://www.viet-myths.net/buitin.htm
>
> Thank you for playing, you may pick up your consolation prize on your
> way out the door marked Buffoons Exit..
Your quote repeats exactly what I said and pasted: Johnson (and crew)
lost the war of public opinion. The "numbers" (kill ratio) didn't
matter; a thousand USA casualties (your number) a month was too much.
There was not only widespread attacking under the name of Tet
Offensive, but fighting that went on for weeks and months in some
places.
>\
> As for teaching your kids anything...snicker....leftards only teach
> their kids to be leftards, buffoons and leeches on the nation. Thats
> all they can understand, and all they can be. Liberalism is a mental
> illness and having mentally ill people as
> teachers....shrug....frankly..thats pretty much tantamount to child
> abuse.
You've tripped on your own quotes and rhetoric at least a couple of
times; as just noted, quoting to support "my" assertions (from memory
of the times, and current wwweb references).
The "leech" comment (and your other general run) reminds me of someone
I worked with close to 30 years ago. Claimed ("let on") to be a
wounded Korea vet, full of a vile and vilolent hatred for anyone who
hadn't seen/experienced the bad things he had. And expecting others to
pull his load for "what they owed him". Not a great way to go through
life, Gunner.
I've also worked with and for at least one Vietnam-era door gunner,
and a tunnel rat. They, just for a couple of examples, long since went
forward with their lives. IOW, not hating the lucky ones (like me) who
escaped the stupidity. --D-y
Howard Kveck
01-03-1970, 07:14 AM
In article <1183163294.338446.140670@c77g2000hse.googlegroups. com>,
"dustoyevsky@mac.com" <dustoyevsky@mac.com> wrote:
> On Jun 29, 11:51 am, Gunner <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
> >
> > Why not go straight to the source?
> >
> > http://www.viet-myths.net/buitin.htm
> >
> > Thank you for playing, you may pick up your consolation prize on your
> > way out the door marked Buffoons Exit..
>
> Your quote repeats exactly what I said and pasted: Johnson (and crew)
> lost the war of public opinion. The "numbers" (kill ratio) didn't
> matter; a thousand USA casualties (your number) a month was too much.
> There was not only widespread attacking under the name of Tet
> Offensive, but fighting that went on for weeks and months in some
> places.
> >\
> > As for teaching your kids anything...snicker....leftards only teach
> > their kids to be leftards, buffoons and leeches on the nation. Thats
> > all they can understand, and all they can be. Liberalism is a mental
> > illness and having mentally ill people as
> > teachers....shrug....frankly..thats pretty much tantamount to child
> > abuse.
>
> You've tripped on your own quotes and rhetoric at least a couple of
> times; as just noted, quoting to support "my" assertions (from memory
> of the times, and current wwweb references).
>
> The "leech" comment (and your other general run) reminds me of someone
> I worked with close to 30 years ago. Claimed ("let on") to be a
> wounded Korea vet, full of a vile and vilolent hatred for anyone who
> hadn't seen/experienced the bad things he had. And expecting others to
> pull his load for "what they owed him". Not a great way to go through
> life, Gunner.
That sounds like a pretty fair assessment. He's mentioned "irrefutable facts" a
few times - the only irrefutable fact that he's shown is that he's an ideological
nutcase. I give him credit for being relentless, though. Anyway, it gets back to the
topic of the thread - the present admin. is merrily breaking the law and ignoring the
Constitution and Gunner not only can't see any problem with that, he can only manage
to blame everyone to the left of A. Hun for any and all problems in the world. Sounds
like SOMS to me: Sour Old Man Syndrome.
--
tanx,
Howard
Never take a tenant with a monkey.
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
Gunner
01-03-1970, 07:14 AM
On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 21:32:00 -0700, Howard Kveck
<YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> That sounds like a pretty fair assessment. He's mentioned "irrefutable facts" a
>few times - the only irrefutable fact that he's shown is that he's an ideological
>nutcase. I give him credit for being relentless, though. Anyway, it gets back to the
>topic of the thread - the present admin. is merrily breaking the law and ignoring the
>Constitution and Gunner not only can't see any problem with that, he can only manage
>to blame everyone to the left of A. Hun for any and all problems in the world. Sounds
>like SOMS to me: Sour Old Man Syndrome.
>
>--
> tanx,
> Howard
Oh looky...its our little friends, Kneel and Bob.
You two work so well together...
snicker
Gunner
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Cliff
01-03-1970, 07:14 AM
On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 21:32:00 -0700, Howard Kveck <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com>
wrote:
>In article <1183163294.338446.140670@c77g2000hse.googlegroups. com>,
> "dustoyevsky@mac.com" <dustoyevsky@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 29, 11:51 am, Gunner <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > Why not go straight to the source?
>> >
>> > http://www.viet-myths.net/buitin.htm
>> >
>> > Thank you for playing, you may pick up your consolation prize on your
>> > way out the door marked Buffoons Exit..
>>
>> Your quote repeats exactly what I said and pasted: Johnson (and crew)
>> lost the war of public opinion. The "numbers" (kill ratio) didn't
>> matter; a thousand USA casualties (your number) a month was too much.
>> There was not only widespread attacking under the name of Tet
>> Offensive, but fighting that went on for weeks and months in some
>> places.
>> >\
>> > As for teaching your kids anything...snicker....leftards only teach
>> > their kids to be leftards, buffoons and leeches on the nation. Thats
>> > all they can understand, and all they can be. Liberalism is a mental
>> > illness and having mentally ill people as
>> > teachers....shrug....frankly..thats pretty much tantamount to child
>> > abuse.
>>
>> You've tripped on your own quotes and rhetoric at least a couple of
>> times; as just noted, quoting to support "my" assertions (from memory
>> of the times, and current wwweb references).
>>
>> The "leech" comment (and your other general run) reminds me of someone
>> I worked with close to 30 years ago. Claimed ("let on") to be a
>> wounded Korea vet, full of a vile and vilolent hatred for anyone who
>> hadn't seen/experienced the bad things he had. And expecting others to
>> pull his load for "what they owed him". Not a great way to go through
>> life, Gunner.
>
> That sounds like a pretty fair assessment. He's mentioned "irrefutable facts" a
>few times - the only irrefutable fact that he's shown is that he's an ideological
>nutcase. I give him credit for being relentless, though. Anyway, it gets back to the
>topic of the thread - the present admin. is merrily breaking the law and ignoring the
>Constitution and Gunner not only can't see any problem with that,
Well, any such (even if true in gummer's opine) would all be poor little
Monica's fault anyway, right? And thus of no concern to a red-blooded
(I admit that's an assumption on my part) person with advanced
Winger's Disease.
>he can only manage
>to blame everyone to the left of A. Hun
That liberal?
>for any and all problems in the world.
The educated cause them with their lack of murdering people IIRC.
>Sounds
>like SOMS to me: Sour Old Man Syndrome.
Consider:
So when the neocons claimed that they knew & had irrefutable proof
and refused to tell any that asked?
When they set up their plans to tell lies?
Can you use this excuse to break into your neighbor's house,
steal his things, murder him & his family, burn the house down,
call all your other neighbors that would not help you "terrorists",
and get off with huge prizes from the police?
"Officer, someday he might have had a BB gun in his basement. If
he ever got one he might have hurt someone's cat or invaded
Antartica with it ."
It's murder, pure & simple. Of about ~ 650,000 ++ ... plus
~ 2,000,000 now homeless IN Iraq and another ~ 2,000,000
(those that could afford it) refugees in other nations. Of those
~ 4,000,000 the US has taken in about 20 over all the years.
"If any one bring an accusation of any crime before the elders, and
does not prove what he has charged, he shall, if it be a capital
offense charged, be put to death." - Third Law, The Code of Hammurabi
written in about 1786 BC. In what is now (or was) Iraq.
The Neocon Menace is worse by far than the Communist Menace
ever was.
http://www.lincoln-ma.com/news_archive/documentpages/peacebuilders.htm
Famous Republican saying: "Everything is fine in politics as long as you
don't get caught in bed with a live man, or a dead woman.”
For 10 Brownie points name the famous republican.
For an added 15 name the dead woman.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different
results." - Albert Einstein
Considering the events of recent years, the US has a long way
to go to regain its credibility and reputation with the world.
"Moogs, would you buy it for a quarter?"
--
Cliff
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