Michael Press
12-31-1969, 08:00 PM
In article
<1182906649.336715.164180@k79g2000hse.googlegroups. com>
,
"bjw@mambo.ucolick.org" <bjw@mambo.ucolick.org>
wrote:
> On Jun 26, 9:36 am, RonSonic <ronso...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 23:07:37 -0700, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >On Jun 26, 4:38 am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > >> Look at what's happening to Zabel for admitting to a long past
> > >> offense.:http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jun07/jun26news
> > >> Makes it real clear that the only policy is to keep
> > >> your mouth shut and deny everything no matter what.
> >
> > >Those voluntary admissions? That policy doesn't seem to be working out
> > >very well.
> >
> > It's working perfectly, in a few more weeks even dumbass bike racers are going
> > to figure out that in this world there are things that one does not ****ing talk
> > about. One of the more surreal moments of the Flandis hearing was Greg Lemond
> > talking about just how horrible it is to keep things secret and then presenting
> > as an example exactly the sort of thing that one does not burden strangers with.
> > No good comes of talking about dope, Oprah lied and Greg's an idiot, so STFU and
> > get back on the bike. It's like Fight Club.
> >
> > Confession is good for the soul - so if you need that, do it the way the experts
> > decided upon centuries ago and keep it private with someone whose privelege and
> > confidentiality are assured.
>
> I don't really agree, I think there are a lot of things
> that most of us would rather people don't talk about,
> because it makes it easier for us to not have to think
> about them. Both pressure to dope and child sexual abuse
> fall in this category, though of radically different
> seriousness. Zabel's admission didn't harm himself or
> the fans; it only harmed the authorities and they are
> the ones retaliating against him.
>
> I wouldn't have had a problem with Greg's public airing
> of his abuse either, except that he somehow attached them
> to the Flandis doping proceedings (and like an attractive
> nuisance, Flandis and his manager then foolishly managed
> to step in it deeper). I don't feel like a stranger
> burdened by the knowledge. I mean, I might feel burdened
> if Greg came up to me and started crying on my shoulder,
> but I only read about it in the newspaper. It's not a
> big burden to carry. Terrible things happen and it's
> worth acknowledging them. And people who feel compelled
> to shut it all up inside sometimes do terrible things.
When someone does not want to think about something,
they will find a way not to think about it, so there is
no benefit of public confession here. Another problem
with public confession is that it invariably drags into
public people who are rightfully entitled to remain
undiscovered.
> Yeah, it would be nice if they'd just go to a psychologist
> or a minister instead of spilling it to the paper, but
> I'd rather they go to the papers than go back to repression
> and the closet.
Logical fallacy of the false dilemma.
> The Oprah confessional and therapy culture is distasteful
> to me, but I think it's a reaction to something that was
> worse. Ditto Zabel's confession versus omerta.
>
> Actually both the confessional culture and omerta share
> one critical assumption, which is that the secret being
> kept is a shameful thing that you have to bust into tears
> if you reveal it. This keeps both therapy-quacks and
> dope-pushers in business.
--
Michael Press
<1182906649.336715.164180@k79g2000hse.googlegroups. com>
,
"bjw@mambo.ucolick.org" <bjw@mambo.ucolick.org>
wrote:
> On Jun 26, 9:36 am, RonSonic <ronso...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 23:07:37 -0700, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >On Jun 26, 4:38 am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > >> Look at what's happening to Zabel for admitting to a long past
> > >> offense.:http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jun07/jun26news
> > >> Makes it real clear that the only policy is to keep
> > >> your mouth shut and deny everything no matter what.
> >
> > >Those voluntary admissions? That policy doesn't seem to be working out
> > >very well.
> >
> > It's working perfectly, in a few more weeks even dumbass bike racers are going
> > to figure out that in this world there are things that one does not ****ing talk
> > about. One of the more surreal moments of the Flandis hearing was Greg Lemond
> > talking about just how horrible it is to keep things secret and then presenting
> > as an example exactly the sort of thing that one does not burden strangers with.
> > No good comes of talking about dope, Oprah lied and Greg's an idiot, so STFU and
> > get back on the bike. It's like Fight Club.
> >
> > Confession is good for the soul - so if you need that, do it the way the experts
> > decided upon centuries ago and keep it private with someone whose privelege and
> > confidentiality are assured.
>
> I don't really agree, I think there are a lot of things
> that most of us would rather people don't talk about,
> because it makes it easier for us to not have to think
> about them. Both pressure to dope and child sexual abuse
> fall in this category, though of radically different
> seriousness. Zabel's admission didn't harm himself or
> the fans; it only harmed the authorities and they are
> the ones retaliating against him.
>
> I wouldn't have had a problem with Greg's public airing
> of his abuse either, except that he somehow attached them
> to the Flandis doping proceedings (and like an attractive
> nuisance, Flandis and his manager then foolishly managed
> to step in it deeper). I don't feel like a stranger
> burdened by the knowledge. I mean, I might feel burdened
> if Greg came up to me and started crying on my shoulder,
> but I only read about it in the newspaper. It's not a
> big burden to carry. Terrible things happen and it's
> worth acknowledging them. And people who feel compelled
> to shut it all up inside sometimes do terrible things.
When someone does not want to think about something,
they will find a way not to think about it, so there is
no benefit of public confession here. Another problem
with public confession is that it invariably drags into
public people who are rightfully entitled to remain
undiscovered.
> Yeah, it would be nice if they'd just go to a psychologist
> or a minister instead of spilling it to the paper, but
> I'd rather they go to the papers than go back to repression
> and the closet.
Logical fallacy of the false dilemma.
> The Oprah confessional and therapy culture is distasteful
> to me, but I think it's a reaction to something that was
> worse. Ditto Zabel's confession versus omerta.
>
> Actually both the confessional culture and omerta share
> one critical assumption, which is that the secret being
> kept is a shameful thing that you have to bust into tears
> if you reveal it. This keeps both therapy-quacks and
> dope-pushers in business.
--
Michael Press