How much will Rqasmussen Sue For [Archive]

Davey Crockett

01-03-1970, 08:39 AM

anton2468@aol.com writes:

> On Jul 26, 2:03 pm, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
> wrote:
>> Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> writes:
>> > On Jul 26, 10:29 am, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >> It seems that Rasmussen denies he was in Italy and isn't going to take
>> >> the recent situation Cassani provoked lying down
>>
>> > I'll speculate that he wasn't in Mexico.
>>
>> I sort of agree there
>>
>> But it would be one Heck of a Gas if he was right
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply
>
> He has not once since his departure suggested his team are in error
> and that he was as suspected in Mexico all along.
>
> So, stop dreaming because he was NOT in Mexico.
>

You must have been watching a different feed than I

--
Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply

Davey Crockett

01-03-1970, 08:39 AM

anton2468@aol.com writes:

> On Jul 26, 2:03 pm, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
> wrote:
>> Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> writes:
>> > On Jul 26, 10:29 am, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >> It seems that Rasmussen denies he was in Italy and isn't going to take
>> >> the recent situation Cassani provoked lying down
>>
>> > I'll speculate that he wasn't in Mexico.
>>
>> I sort of agree there
>>
>> But it would be one Heck of a Gas if he was right
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply
>
> He has not once since his departure suggested his team are in error
> and that he was as suspected in Mexico all along.
>
> So, stop dreaming because he was NOT in Mexico.
>

"It's the work of a desperate man who is at the end of his nerves,"
Rasmussen told the paper's website. "My boss is mad. I wasn't in
Italy, no way. That's the story of one man (former cyclist and now an
Italian television presenter Davide Cassani) who thinks he saw me. But
there's not the slightest proof." -- Rasmussen Today

--
Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply

Simon Brooke

01-03-1970, 08:39 AM

in message <1185473981.871479.104520@l70g2000hse.googlegroups. com>,
anton2468@aol.com (' anton2468@aol.com') wrote:

> On Jul 26, 2:03 pm, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
> wrote:
>> Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> writes:
>> > On Jul 26, 10:29 am, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >> It seems that Rasmussen denies he was in Italy and isn't going to
>> >> take the recent situation Cassani provoked lying down
>>
>> > I'll speculate that he wasn't in Mexico.
>>
>> I sort of agree there
>>
>> But it would be one Heck of a Gas if he was right
>
> He has not once since his departure suggested his team are in error
> and that he was as suspected in Mexico all along.

On the contrary, I have watched and heard him say - today - that he was
exactly where he said he would be, in Mexico, on the days when Cassani
says he saw him. And as I've pointed out, it won't be hard to prove it,
one way or the other.

Personally, I suspect Rasmussen was in Mexico - from what I've heard,
Cassani thought he saw him on the other side of the road in the rain while
going in the opposite direction. So it can't be a very solid ID, even if
Cassani knows Rasmussen. If Cassani says he spoke to Rasmussen, of course,
that's different. But does he?

--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Age equals angst multiplied by the speed of fright squared.
;; the Worlock

cyclintom@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 08:39 AM

On Jul 26, 11:21 am, "Fabrizio Mazzoleni" <jma...@comcast.com> wrote:
> "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1185471889.174195.155460@j4g2000prf.googlegro ups.com...
>
>
>
> > I'll speculate that he wasn't in Mexico.
>
> My guess is Annunziata Hotel on the Piazza Repubblica 5.
> That's just off the Via Garibaldi in Ferrara Italy.

The real question is - where were you Fabrizio?

Ivar Hesselager

01-03-1970, 08:39 AM

Den 26.07.2007 kl. 20:24 skrev Davey Crockett
<d4Qaveycrockett@azurservers.com>:

> anton2468@aol.com writes:
>
>> He has not once since his departure suggested his team are in error
>> and that he was as suspected in Mexico all along.
>>
>> So, stop dreaming because he was NOT in Mexico.
>>
>
> You must have been watching a different feed than I
>

Yes, Rasmussen insist thursday evening, that he was in Mexico in june, and
that it is untrue that he should have admitted to beeing in Italy.
He also says to a Danish newspaper, that further statements about his
whereabouts now will be given from his lawier.

Ivar of denmark

--
Sendt med Operas banebrydende postklient:
http://www.opera.com/mail/

gds

01-03-1970, 08:39 AM

On Jul 26, 11:29 am, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
wrote:
> anton2...@aol.com writes:
> > On Jul 26, 2:03 pm, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
> > wrote:
> >> Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> writes:
> >> > On Jul 26, 10:29 am, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> It seems that Rasmussen denies he was in Italy and isn't going to take
> >> >> the recent situation Cassani provoked lying down
>
> >> > I'll speculate that he wasn't in Mexico.
>
> >> I sort of agree there
>
> >> But it would be one Heck of a Gas if he was right
>
> >> --
> >> Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply
>
> > He has not once since his departure suggested his team are in error
> > and that he was as suspected in Mexico all along.
>
> > So, stop dreaming because he was NOT in Mexico.
>
> "It's the work of a desperate man who is at the end of his nerves,"
> Rasmussen told the paper's website. "My boss is mad. I wasn't in
> Italy, no way. That's the story of one man (former cyclist and now an
> Italian television presenter Davide Cassani) who thinks he saw me. But
> there's not the slightest proof." -- Rasmussen Today
>
> --
> Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

No matter. President Bush just pardoned him and ordered him not to
testify anywhere under executive privilege.

Bret

01-03-1970, 08:39 AM

On Jul 26, 12:29 pm, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
wrote:
> anton2...@aol.com writes:
> > On Jul 26, 2:03 pm, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
> > wrote:
> >> Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> writes:
> >> > On Jul 26, 10:29 am, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> It seems that Rasmussen denies he was in Italy and isn't going to take
> >> >> the recent situation Cassani provoked lying down
>
> >> > I'll speculate that he wasn't in Mexico.
>
> >> I sort of agree there
>
> >> But it would be one Heck of a Gas if he was right
>
> >> --
> >> Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply
>
> > He has not once since his departure suggested his team are in error
> > and that he was as suspected in Mexico all along.
>
> > So, stop dreaming because he was NOT in Mexico.
>
> "It's the work of a desperate man who is at the end of his nerves,"
> Rasmussen told the paper's website. "My boss is mad. I wasn't in
> Italy, no way. That's the story of one man (former cyclist and now an
> Italian television presenter Davide Cassani) who thinks he saw me. But
> there's not the slightest proof." -- Rasmussen Today
>
> --
> Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply

If I were falsely accused of being in a certain country at a certain
time, I would be showing my passport to anyone willing to look at it.
I don't think that's going to happen in this case.

Bret

Stu Fleming

01-03-1970, 08:39 AM

Davey Crockett wrote:

> "It's the work of a desperate man who is at the end of his nerves,"
> Rasmussen told the paper's website. "My boss is mad. I wasn't in
> Italy, no way. That's the story of one man (former cyclist and now an
> Italian television presenter Davide Cassani) who thinks he saw me. But
> there's not the slightest proof." -- Rasmussen Today
>

In other news, descendants of Occam sue Gilette for the false claim to
have the world's sharpest razor.

cyclintom@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 08:39 AM

On Jul 26, 11:34 am, benn.trov...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 26, 10:29 am, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
> wrote:
>
> > It seems that Rasmussen denies he was in Italy and isn't going to take
> > the recent situation Cassani provoked lying down
>
> > He'll most probably be suing for damages
>
> > And Davey hopes he gets plenty
>
> Interesting... who will he sue? On what grounds? And in which
> jurisdiction?
>
> I expect we'll hear some periodic harrumphing, diminishing in
> frequency, with Rasmussen promising that he'll eventually get it all
> off his chest, because he has much to say... when Denmark is ready to
> hear (or someone is interested enough to pay good money).

That still doesn't answer the question of why he missed 4 out of
competition tests. And as Lance said - EVERYONE has cell phones,
internet connections or Blackberries these day. Why is it Rassmussen
couldn't be reached?

Simon Brooke

01-03-1970, 08:39 AM

in message <1185474850.390345.326450@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.c om>,
benn.trovato@hotmail.com (' benn.trovato@hotmail.com') wrote:

> On Jul 26, 10:29 am, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
> wrote:
>> It seems that Rasmussen denies he was in Italy and isn't going to take
>> the recent situation Cassani provoked lying down
>>
>> He'll most probably be suing for damages
>
> Interesting... who will he sue?
> On what grounds?

If Rasmussen was telling the truth, and if my understanding of what has
happened is correct:

Rabobank, the team: Unjustified dismissal.
Rabobank, the bank: Slander <- this is the big one.
Cassani: Slander.

My guess is that he won't persue Cassani, because Cassani stated what he
believed to be true and meant no malice. The bank, however, clearly did
intend malice, and their exposure seems to me pretty much unlimited.

> And in which jurisdiction?

The Netherlands. It's where both the employer and the sponsor are
registered.

--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; All in all you're just another nick in the ball
-- Think Droid

Carl Sundquist

01-03-1970, 08:39 AM

"Bret" <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1185476196.478596.60440@w3g2000hsg.googlegrou ps.com...

>
> If I were falsely accused of being in a certain country at a certain
> time, I would be showing my passport to anyone willing to look at it.
> I don't think that's going to happen in this case.
>

Passports probably get stamped less than 1/2 the time you go through
passport control, unless you are a tourist and like to get your passport
stamped.

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org

01-03-1970, 08:39 AM

On Jul 26, 11:56 am, Bret <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "It's the work of a desperate man who is at the end of his nerves,"
> > Rasmussen told the paper's website. "My boss is mad. I wasn't in
> > Italy, no way. That's the story of one man (former cyclist and now an
> > Italian television presenter Davide Cassani) who thinks he saw me. But
> > there's not the slightest proof." -- Rasmussen Today
>
> If I were falsely accused of being in a certain country at a certain
> time, I would be showing my passport to anyone willing to look at it.
> I don't think that's going to happen in this case.

He's an EU citizen, so he probably wouldn't get a
passport stamp on going to Italy (Could an EU
citizen confirm?) Last time I went to Mexico,
we drove over the border and they didn't look at
our passports, but that was a long time ago at
a very small border crossing in the middle of
nowhere. (It was at midnight and the border guard
just stuck his head into the car and asked
"Pistolas?" while making a gun shape with his thumb
and index finger. It was pretty funny. And
although this story makes it sound like we were
driving a camper van made out of pot, we weren't,
honest.) I would expect things to be a little
more rigorous at an international airport.

Anyway, if he was in Mexico, it shouldn't be hard
to prove - credit cards, phone records, and so on.
Like you, I doubt it will happen.

Ben

Donald Munro

01-03-1970, 08:39 AM

Bret wrote:
> If I were falsely accused of being in a certain country at a certain
> time, I would be showing my passport to anyone willing to look at it.
> I don't think that's going to happen in this case.

He lost it ?

Morten Reippuert Knudsen

01-03-1970, 08:39 AM

chester <chester@hotmeal.com> wrote:

> He missed 4 random doping tests. He failed to notify teams of his
> whereabouts. He has no grounds. He violated the UCI rules and probably
> should not have started the tour.

You should tject your facts, he didn't miss 4 out of competition
tests!

1. written warning from UCI
Recived 24/03/2006 for not sending 2. quarter wherabouts in due
time. Due time was 15/03/2006. Rasmussen took part in criterium
international when the warening was issued. Rasmussen send the
whereabouts to UCI on 03/04/06. The warning will expire on
24/09/2007.*

2. written warning from ADD
Recived 08/05/2007 for not beeing pressent for out-of--competition
test on 06/04/2007 by ADD.

3. written warning from ADD
Recived 28/06/2007 for not beeing pressent for out-of-competition
test on 28/06/2007 by ADD.

4. recorded warning from UCI
Recived 29/06/2007 for failing to update whereabouts for the period
04/06/2007 to 12/06/2007. The UCI didn't recived the update until
11/06/2007. Rasmussen raced Giro d'Italia from 18/05/2007 to
03/06/2007.

It takes 3 warnings from the _same_ agency in order to build a doping
case for missed out-of-competition tests or faulty whereabouts (which
can lead to a 3-12 month quarenten).

The fact is that rasmussen failed 2, _not_ 4 out-of-competition-tests
under ADD. For both of them Rasmussen recived a written warning, It is
not enough to build a case according to current rules.

Additionaly Rasmussen recived a written _and_ a recorded warning for
faulty whereabouts from UCI, those warnings are not enough to build a
doping case either.

(*)Rasmussen and Rabobank states that warning number #1 should
have been erased. A written warning would will automaticly be
errased if Rasmussen had sendt in the updated whereabouts
within 7 days after the warning was issued. Rasmussen sendt the
updated after he came home from Critterium international, 9
days late. The whereabout period startede 01/04/2007 and
Rasmussen took part in an UCI race from 31/03/2007 to
01/04/2007.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

Simon Brooke

01-03-1970, 08:39 AM

in message <f8as8l$alp$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu>, chester
('chester@hotmeal.com') wrote:

> Davey Crockett wrote:
>> It seems that Rasmussen denies he was in Italy and isn't going to take
>> the recent situation Cassani provoked lying down
>>
>> He'll most probably be suing for damages
>
> He missed 4 random doping tests.

True.

> He failed to notify teams of his
> whereabouts.

He apparently told his team that he was (at a specific place) in Mexico.
His team now believes he wasn't - but this can easily be proved, and if he
was there, then he told his team the truth.

> He has no grounds. He violated the UCI rules and probably
> should not have started the tour.

No, he didn't. He violated a procedure. If he had missed three UCI tests,
he would have broken the rule - but he didn't.

> There seems to be very little support
> for him amongst other riders.

True, but he is at best a fairly abrasive personality, not someone easy to
like. You wouldn't expect him to be popular in the peloton.

> If the other riders have to submit for the
> tests, why should he not have to?
>
> The only suit I can seem him winning is suing the team for letting him
> start the tour and getting his hopes up.

Certainly the only people he can sue are the team and the sponsor. But if
he was telling the truth then I wouldn't want to be that sponsor - the
damage both in financial terms and in bad publicity is going to be
enormous.

--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; All in all you're just another hick in the mall
-- Drink C'lloid

Davey Crockett

01-03-1970, 08:39 AM

Donald Munro <fat-dumbass@hotmail.com> writes:

> Bret wrote:
>> If I were falsely accused of being in a certain country at a certain
>> time, I would be showing my passport to anyone willing to look at it.
>> I don't think that's going to happen in this case.
>
> He lost it ?
>

I travel quite frequently

I also don't have a single stamp in my passport although they are
sometimes scanned electronically

--
Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply

anton2468@aol.com

01-03-1970, 08:39 AM

On Jul 26, 3:44 pm, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
wrote:
> Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> writes:
> > Bret wrote:
> >> If I were falsely accused of being in a certain country at a certain
> >> time, I would be showing my passport to anyone willing to look at it.
> >> I don't think that's going to happen in this case.
>
> > He lost it ?
>
> I travel quite frequently
>
> I also don't have a single stamp in my passport although they are
> sometimes scanned electronically
>
> --
> Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply

You obviously have not been to mexico.

And did you not think that a scan would be recorded?

or post 9-11 Everyone flying anywhere is recorded?

Donald Munro

01-03-1970, 08:40 AM

cyclintom wrote:
> That still doesn't answer the question of why he missed 4 out of
> competition tests. And as Lance said - EVERYONE has cell phones,
> internet connections or Blackberries these day. Why is it Rassmussen
> couldn't be reached?

LANCE would be better served by shutting up given the amount of time he
spent in the company of Ferrari himself.

Tom Kunich

01-03-1970, 08:40 AM

<anton2468@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1185481658.382203.205740@q75g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
> On Jul 26, 3:44 pm, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
> wrote:
>> Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> writes:
>> > Bret wrote:
>> >> If I were falsely accused of being in a certain country at a certain
>> >> time, I would be showing my passport to anyone willing to look at it.
>> >> I don't think that's going to happen in this case.
>>
>> > He lost it ?
>>
>> I travel quite frequently
>>
>> I also don't have a single stamp in my passport although they are
>> sometimes scanned electronically
>>
>> --
>> Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply
>
> You obviously have not been to mexico.
>
> And did you not think that a scan would be recorded?
>
> or post 9-11 Everyone flying anywhere is recorded?

I've been to Mexico and they didn't stamp my passport. I've been to France
and Switzerland and Japan and Canada and the only place they wanted a
passport was Canada.

Davey Crockett

01-03-1970, 08:40 AM

anton2468@aol.com writes:

> On Jul 26, 3:44 pm, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
> wrote:
>> Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> writes:
>> > Bret wrote:
>> >> If I were falsely accused of being in a certain country at a certain
>> >> time, I would be showing my passport to anyone willing to look at it.
>> >> I don't think that's going to happen in this case.
>>
>> > He lost it ?
>>
>> I travel quite frequently
>>
>> I also don't have a single stamp in my passport although they are
>> sometimes scanned electronically
>>
>> --
>> Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply
>
> You obviously have not been to mexico.

Wrong, and Peru, Bolivia, Brazil and Argentina too

>
> And did you not think that a scan would be recorded?
>
The thought never crossed my mind ;)

> or post 9-11 Everyone flying anywhere is recorded?

What makes 9-11 different? I thought a record of all flights from
regular airports on regular carriers had always been recorded

--
Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply

Tom Kunich

01-03-1970, 08:40 AM

"Donald Munro" <fat-dumbass@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:46a90598$0$4365$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.c om...
> cyclintom wrote:
>> That still doesn't answer the question of why he missed 4 out of
>> competition tests. And as Lance said - EVERYONE has cell phones,
>> internet connections or Blackberries these day. Why is it Rassmussen
>> couldn't be reached?
>
> LANCE would be better served by shutting up given the amount of time he
> spent in the company of Ferrari himself.

You'd be a lot better served shutting your piehole what with your vast
experiences in gay bars.

Davey Crockett

01-03-1970, 08:41 AM

"bjw@mambo.ucolick.org" <bjw@mambo.ucolick.org> writes:

> On Jul 26, 11:56 am, Bret <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > "It's the work of a desperate man who is at the end of his nerves,"
>> > Rasmussen told the paper's website. "My boss is mad. I wasn't in
>> > Italy, no way. That's the story of one man (former cyclist and now an
>> > Italian television presenter Davide Cassani) who thinks he saw me. But
>> > there's not the slightest proof." -- Rasmussen Today
>>
>> If I were falsely accused of being in a certain country at a certain
>> time, I would be showing my passport to anyone willing to look at it.
>> I don't think that's going to happen in this case.
>
> He's an EU citizen, so he probably wouldn't get a
> passport stamp on going to Italy (Could an EU
> citizen confirm?)

Usually they don't stamp passports anywhere where the holder does not
require a visa for entry

Stamping an EU passport upon entering an EU country I have never seen
although it may happen. I don't know.

However, passports are _sometimes_ scanned, but not always, and of
course the scan will be recorded.

I do have more than one passport though, but it doesn't seem to
matter. The only places, in my experience, that they really seem to
make more than a superficial attempt to check anything are anglophone
countries where ridiculously 90 per cent of the Immigration, Customs
and Security personnel appear to be Hyphenated citizens.

A few weeks ago I flew into Nice on my way home, and followed the "EU
Citizens" signs. This was mid afternoon. There was no one on the
Passport Desk and no one on the Customs Desk either. A straight
walkthrough

In the UK the lines are long and ridiculously slow moving and Canada
is an absolute nightmare.

That's my experience. Others may have different impressions.

--
Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply

Davey Crockett

01-03-1970, 08:41 AM

Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> writes:

> in message <877ion13bw.fsf@azurservers.com>, Davey Crockett
> ('d4Qaveycrockett@azurservers.com') wrote:
>
>> It seems that Rasmussen denies he was in Italy and isn't going to take
>> the recent situation Cassani provoked lying down
>>
>> He'll most probably be suing for damages
>>
>> And Davey hopes he gets plenty
>
> /If/ he's telling the truth - and it shouldn't be very hard to prove - I
> would think the sky was the limit.
>

I have mixed feelings on whether Rasmussen is telling the truth or
not.

I really hope he is because this whole situation has a nasty smell and
I'd love to see him put the Financial and Credibility Boots to the
whole sorry lot of the Scumbags that are dissing him now and
Grandstanding with self serving statements to the press when they should
be keeping their yaps shut and resume sticking their Snouts and both
Trotters into the Pork Barrel

--
Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply

Bill C

01-03-1970, 08:41 AM

On Jul 26, 5:40 pm, Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
> in message <f8as8l$al...@gnus01.u.washington.edu>, chester
>
> ('ches...@hotmeal.com') wrote:
> > Davey Crockett wrote:
> >> It seems that Rasmussen denies he was in Italy and isn't going to take
> >> the recent situation Cassani provoked lying down
>
> >> He'll most probably be suing for damages
>
> > He missed 4 random doping tests.
>
> True.
>
> > He failed to notify teams of his
> > whereabouts.
>
> He apparently told his team that he was (at a specific place) in Mexico.
> His team now believes he wasn't - but this can easily be proved, and if he
> was there, then he told his team the truth.
>
> > He has no grounds. He violated the UCI rules and probably
> > should not have started the tour.
>
> No, he didn't. He violated a procedure. If he had missed three UCI tests,
> he would have broken the rule - but he didn't.
>
> > There seems to be very little support
> > for him amongst other riders.
>
> True, but he is at best a fairly abrasive personality, not someone easy to
> like. You wouldn't expect him to be popular in the peloton.
>
> > If the other riders have to submit for the
> > tests, why should he not have to?
>
> > The only suit I can seem him winning is suing the team for letting him
> > start the tour and getting his hopes up.
>
> Certainly the only people he can sue are the team and the sponsor. But if
> he was telling the truth then I wouldn't want to be that sponsor - the
> damage both in financial terms and in bad publicity is going to be
> enormous.
>
> --
> si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke)http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
>
> ;; All in all you're just another hick in the mall
> -- Drink C'lloid

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6918186.stm

Huge payout for men framed by FBI
By Kim Ghattas
BBC News, Washington

The convictions date from 1965
A federal judge in Boston has ordered the US government to pay out
more than $100m (£50m) in the case of four wrongly convicted men.

Bill C

Bike Mike

01-03-1970, 08:41 AM

Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:

>in message <f8as8l$alp$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu>, chester
>('chester@hotmeal.com') wrote:
>
>> Davey Crockett wrote:

>
>> He has no grounds. He violated the UCI rules and probably
>> should not have started the tour.
>
>No, he didn't. He violated a procedure. If he had missed three UCI tests,
>he would have broken the rule - but he didn't.
>

If you missed a drug test within 45 days when the tour begins, you are
not allowed to the start in it.

Carl Sundquist

01-03-1970, 08:41 AM

"Simon Brooke" <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in message
news:mbhnn4-7ab.ln1@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk...
> in message <1185474850.390345.326450@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.c om>,
> benn.trovato@hotmail.com (' benn.trovato@hotmail.com') wrote:
>
>> On Jul 26, 10:29 am, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
>> wrote:
>>> It seems that Rasmussen denies he was in Italy and isn't going to take
>>> the recent situation Cassani provoked lying down
>>>
>>> He'll most probably be suing for damages
>>
>> Interesting... who will he sue?
>> On what grounds?
>
> If Rasmussen was telling the truth, and if my understanding of what has
> happened is correct:
>
> Rabobank, the team: Unjustified dismissal.
> Rabobank, the bank: Slander <- this is the big one.
> Cassani: Slander.
>
> My guess is that he won't persue Cassani, because Cassani stated what he
> believed to be true and meant no malice. The bank, however, clearly did
> intend malice, and their exposure seems to me pretty much unlimited.
>
>> And in which jurisdiction?
>
> The Netherlands. It's where both the employer and the sponsor are
> registered.

Ah. Justin Lewis territory.
> --
> simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
>
> ;; All in all you're just another nick in the ball
> -- Think Droid
>

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org

01-03-1970, 08:41 AM

On Jul 26, 2:47 pm, Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
> benn.trov...@hotmail.com (' benn.trov...@hotmail.com') wrote:
> > Interesting... who will he sue?
> > On what grounds?
>
> If Rasmussen was telling the truth, and if my understanding of what has
> happened is correct:
>
> Rabobank, the team: Unjustified dismissal.
> Rabobank, the bank: Slander <- this is the big one.
> Cassani: Slander.
>
> My guess is that he won't persue Cassani, because Cassani stated what he
> believed to be true and meant no malice. The bank, however, clearly did
> intend malice, and their exposure seems to me pretty much unlimited.

I hear that after he wins this suit he's going to
help O.J. find the real killers.

Ben

Bike Mike

01-03-1970, 08:41 AM

Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:

>in message <1185474850.390345.326450@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.c om>,
>benn.trovato@hotmail.com (' benn.trovato@hotmail.com') wrote:
>
>> On Jul 26, 10:29 am, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
>> wrote:
>>> It seems that Rasmussen denies he was in Italy and isn't going to take
>>> the recent situation Cassani provoked lying down
>>>
>>> He'll most probably be suing for damages
>>
>> Interesting... who will he sue?
>> On what grounds?
>
>If Rasmussen was telling the truth, and if my understanding of what has
>happened is correct:
>
>Rabobank, the team: Unjustified dismissal.

No way to know this. It depends on the terms of his contract and the
offical reasons given to him. Evading 4 drug tests or the attendant
bad publicity could very well be sufficient cause.

Certainly, Rabobank has spoken to Cassani. Some reports indicate
actually spoke to MR in Italy, in which case there is a pretty clear
case of lying.

>Rabobank, the bank: Slander <- this is the big one.

Not likely. They havent accused him of anything like child
molestation or doping. Most of all. I havent seen them specifically
mention dope. Quite the opposite:

"I think this decision is not directly linked to doping. He has not
been tested positive."
- Helen Crielaard, head of sponsorship at Rabobank

>Cassani: Slander.
>

Ivar Hesselager

01-03-1970, 08:41 AM

Den 26.07.2007 kl. 23:52 skrev Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk>:

>
> Personally, I suspect Rasmussen was in Mexico - from what I've heard,
> Cassani thought he saw him on the other side of the road in the rain
> while
> going in the opposite direction. So it can't be a very solid ID, even if
> Cassani knows Rasmussen. If Cassani says he spoke to Rasmussen, of
> course,
> that's different. But does he?
>

Althou I want so much to believe in Rasmussen, there ARE good reasons to
believe Cassani is right. As a commentator for an Italian TV station
Cassani was telling his viewers about how he admired Rasmussen's
determination in his training, and describing how he with his own eyes had
seen Rasmussen gooing on training during a thunder storm in the Dolomite
mountains, when every sensible person would seek shelter. He described
how he talked to Rasmussen, whom he knows (well), on this day in june.
Cassani is reported to have no intention of squeeling on Rasmussen, but
when a journalist from the Danish Broadcast Corporation heard about his
anecdote, he asked Cassani to testify, that he had met Rasmussen in Italy
in june, and he accepted reluctantly. I have read this I have from a
danish journalist, who has for several days insisted, that Rasmussen is
innocent untill prooven guilty.

I still hope Rasmussen will present evidence, that he was actually in
Mexico, but I am not very optimistic.

Ivar of Denmark

--
Sendt med Operas banebrydende postklient:
http://www.opera.com/mail/

Davey Crockett

01-03-1970, 08:41 AM

Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> writes:

> Personally, I suspect Rasmussen was in Mexico - from what I've heard,
> Cassani thought he saw him on the other side of the road in the rain while
> going in the opposite direction. So it can't be a very solid ID, even if
> Cassani knows Rasmussen. If Cassani says he spoke to Rasmussen, of course,
> that's different. But does he?
>

Right on

--
Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply

kaiser

01-03-1970, 08:42 AM

On Jul 26, 4:11 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Jul 26, 5:40 pm, Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> > in message <f8as8l$al...@gnus01.u.washington.edu>, chester
>
> > ('ches...@hotmeal.com') wrote:
> > > Davey Crockett wrote:
> > >> It seems that Rasmussen denies he was in Italy and isn't going to take
> > >> the recent situation Cassani provoked lying down
>
> > >> He'll most probably be suing for damages
>
> > > He missed 4 random doping tests.
>
> > True.
>
> > > He failed to notify teams of his
> > > whereabouts.
>
> > He apparently told his team that he was (at a specific place) in Mexico.
> > His team now believes he wasn't - but this can easily be proved, and if he
> > was there, then he told his team the truth.
>
> > > He has no grounds. He violated the UCI rules and probably
> > > should not have started the tour.
>
> > No, he didn't. He violated a procedure. If he had missed three UCI tests,
> > he would have broken the rule - but he didn't.
>
> > > There seems to be very little support
> > > for him amongst other riders.
>
> > True, but he is at best a fairly abrasive personality, not someone easy to
> > like. You wouldn't expect him to be popular in the peloton.
>
> > > If the other riders have to submit for the
> > > tests, why should he not have to?
>
> > > The only suit I can seem him winning is suing the team for letting him
> > > start the tour and getting his hopes up.
>
> > Certainly the only people he can sue are the team and the sponsor. But if
> > he was telling the truth then I wouldn't want to be that sponsor - the
> > damage both in financial terms and in bad publicity is going to be
> > enormous.
>
> > --
> > si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke)http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
>
> > ;; All in all you're just another hick in the mall
> > -- Drink C'lloid
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6918186.stm
>
> Huge payout for men framed by FBI
> By Kim Ghattas
> BBC News, Washington
>
> The convictions date from 1965
> A federal judge in Boston has ordered the US government to pay out
> more than $100m (£50m) in the case of four wrongly convicted men.
>
> Bill C

Do you honestly think Rabobank tossed the TDF and their rider because
of a mere passing remark by a former professional cyclist? Give them
just a little more credit please. Perhaps it was the totality of his
deceptions within the team that caused them to lose faith in him.
It's easy for Rasmussen to attack this ONE circumstance, because
frankly, that's about all he has to attack.

Simon Brooke

01-03-1970, 08:42 AM

in message <op.tv3jlxx41c91w4@d3q5wk2j>, Ivar Hesselager
('ivar.hesselager@medie.dk') wrote:

> Althou I want so much to believe in Rasmussen, there ARE good reasons to
> believe Cassani is right. As a commentator for an Italian TV station
> Cassani was telling his viewers about how he admired Rasmussen's
> determination in his training, and describing how he with his own eyes
> had seen Rasmussen gooing on training during a thunder storm in the
> Dolomite
> mountains, when every sensible person would seek shelter. He described
> how he talked to Rasmussen, whom he knows (well), on this day in june.
> Cassani is reported to have no intention of squeeling on Rasmussen, but
> when a journalist from the Danish Broadcast Corporation heard about his
> anecdote, he asked Cassani to testify, that he had met Rasmussen in Italy
> in june, and he accepted reluctantly. I have read this I have from a
> danish journalist, who has for several days insisted, that Rasmussen is
> innocent untill prooven guilty.
>
> I still hope Rasmussen will present evidence, that he was actually in
> Mexico, but I am not very optimistic.

Thanks, Ivar. That's helpful.

Depressing. If Rasmussen did turn out to have been telling the truth, it
might have made the witch-hunters think twice, which would in my opinion
be a good thing. It's still possible for Cassani to have been honestly
mistaken, but much less likely.

--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; may contain traces of nuts, bolts or washers.

Bike Mike

01-03-1970, 08:42 AM

Morten Reippuert Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk> wrote:

>chester <chester@hotmeal.com> wrote:
>
>> He missed 4 random doping tests. He failed to notify teams of his
>> whereabouts. He has no grounds. He violated the UCI rules and probably
>> should not have started the tour.
>
>You should tject your facts, he didn't miss 4 out of competition
>tests!
>
>1. written warning from UCI
> Recived 24/03/2006 for not sending 2. quarter wherabouts in due
> time. Due time was 15/03/2006. Rasmussen took part in criterium
> international when the warening was issued. Rasmussen send the
> whereabouts to UCI on 03/04/06. The warning will expire on
> 24/09/2007.*

The mainstream press is reporting this as a missed test.

>
>2. written warning from ADD
> Recived 08/05/2007 for not beeing pressent for out-of--competition
> test on 06/04/2007 by ADD.
>
>3. written warning from ADD
> Recived 28/06/2007 for not beeing pressent for out-of-competition
> test on 28/06/2007 by ADD.

This one is interesting. He did miss a test within 45 days of the
start. The Tour wanted to use that as a means to exlude MR from the
race. UCI disagrees indicating that they had been able to test him on
the 29th (same day they gave him a warning).

It depends on how you want to interpret rule 220. The Tour wants to
be aggressive and count the missed test as a disqualifier. The UCI
says this is mitigated by the fact he was available for a different
test. He was both available and unavailable in the period.

>
>4. recorded warning from UCI
> Recived 29/06/2007 for failing to update whereabouts for the period
> 04/06/2007 to 12/06/2007. The UCI didn't recived the update until
> 11/06/2007. Rasmussen raced Giro d'Italia from 18/05/2007 to
> 03/06/2007.

This stinks. Notified them the day before.

>

Donald Munro

01-03-1970, 08:42 AM

cyclintom wrote:
>>> That still doesn't answer the question of why he missed 4 out of
>>> competition tests. And as Lance said - EVERYONE has cell phones,
>>> internet connections or Blackberries these day. Why is it Rassmussen
>>> couldn't be reached?

Donald Munro wrote:
>> LANCE would be better served by shutting up given the amount of time he
>> spent in the company of Ferrari himself.

Tom Kunich wrote:
> You'd be a lot better served shutting your piehole what with your vast
> experiences in gay bars.

I was hoping you would be able to point out any that I may have missed.

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org

01-03-1970, 08:43 AM

On Jul 26, 7:07 pm, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
wrote:
> "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org> writes:

> > He's an EU citizen, so he probably wouldn't get a
> > passport stamp on going to Italy (Could an EU
> > citizen confirm?)
>
> Usually they don't stamp passports anywhere where the holder does not
> require a visa for entry
>
> Stamping an EU passport upon entering an EU country I have never seen
> although it may happen. I don't know.
>
> However, passports are _sometimes_ scanned, but not always, and of
> course the scan will be recorded.

Thanks. The not-stamping differs from my experience
though (I am not an EU citizen). I have stamps from
Chile, Italy, Germany, Australia, and the United States
in my passport, and I didn't need a visa for any of them.
Chile, Germany, and Australia stamped on both entry and
exit. The US only stamped on entrance, saying
"Immigration Admitted," which was generous of them
since they were stamping a US passport. (This was not
long after 9/11 and I've not heard of the US stamping
a US passport at other times.) I haven't been to
Mexico, or as we are now calling it here, "Baja Italy,"
recently.

Ben

RonSonic

01-03-1970, 08:44 AM

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 04:26:01 +0200, Davey Crockett
<d4Qaveycrockett@azurservers.com> wrote:

>Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> writes:
>
>> in message <877ion13bw.fsf@azurservers.com>, Davey Crockett
>> ('d4Qaveycrockett@azurservers.com') wrote:
>>
>>> It seems that Rasmussen denies he was in Italy and isn't going to take
>>> the recent situation Cassani provoked lying down
>>>
>>> He'll most probably be suing for damages
>>>
>>> And Davey hopes he gets plenty
>>
>> /If/ he's telling the truth - and it shouldn't be very hard to prove - I
>> would think the sky was the limit.
>>
>
>I have mixed feelings on whether Rasmussen is telling the truth or
>not.
>
>I really hope he is because this whole situation has a nasty smell and
>I'd love to see him put the Financial and Credibility Boots to the
>whole sorry lot of the Scumbags that are dissing him now and
>Grandstanding with self serving statements to the press when they should
>be keeping their yaps shut and resume sticking their Snouts and both
>Trotters into the Pork Barrel

If and if and iff. But I'd suspect the primary target would be Rabobank which
would be sad. There probably isn't a sponsor involved in more branches and
disciplines of the sport than they. I'd hate to see them put off from that.

There is no suing the screech-mob.

Ron

Simon Brooke

01-03-1970, 08:45 AM

in message <84via3t1gi21sa3no2ict6eh3u5l2ssi3h@4ax.com>, Bike Mike
('none@') wrote:

> Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>If Rasmussen was telling the truth, and if my understanding of what has
>>happened is correct:
>>
>>Rabobank, the team: Unjustified dismissal.
>
> No way to know this. It depends on the terms of his contract and the
> offical reasons given to him. Evading 4 drug tests or the attendant
> bad publicity could very well be sufficient cause.

In Europe, one can know this. If he's been sacked for lying, and he didn't
lie, they're toast. You can't put into an employment contract in Europe
clauses which go against the employment law of the particular country,
because if you do the whole contract is likely to be void.

> Certainly, Rabobank has spoken to Cassani. Some reports indicate
> actually spoke to MR in Italy, in which case there is a pretty clear
> case of lying.

Yup. If Cassani knows Rasmussen, and if he claims he spoke to him, then
that makes it a much stronger story.

>>Rabobank, the bank: Slander <- this is the big one.
>
> Not likely. They havent accused him of anything like child
> molestation or doping. Most of all. I havent seen them specifically
> mention dope. Quite the opposite:
>
> "I think this decision is not directly linked to doping. He has not
> been tested positive."
> - Helen Crielaard, head of sponsorship at Rabobank

They have, however, told their sponsored team that they want him dropped,
and the reason they appear to have given is dishonesty. Which, if he
wasn't dishonest, is the most serious kind of slander, because it cost him
not just his job but his career.

It's not what you're accused of, but how much damage the allegation does to
you, that matters.

--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Diplomacy, American: see Intelligence, Military

Kurgan Gringioni

01-03-1970, 08:45 AM

On Jul 26, 11:38 pm, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org>
wrote:
> On Jul 26, 7:07 pm, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
> wrote:
>
> > "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org> writes:
> > > He's an EU citizen, so he probably wouldn't get a
> > > passport stamp on going to Italy (Could an EU
> > > citizen confirm?)
>
> > Usually they don't stamp passports anywhere where the holder does not
> > require a visa for entry
>
> > Stamping an EU passport upon entering an EU country I have never seen
> > although it may happen. I don't know.
>
> > However, passports are _sometimes_ scanned, but not always, and of
> > course the scan will be recorded.
>
> Thanks. The not-stamping differs from my experience
> though (I am not an EU citizen). I have stamps from
> Chile, Italy, Germany, Australia, and the United States
> in my passport, and I didn't need a visa for any of them.
> Chile, Germany, and Australia stamped on both entry and
> exit. The US only stamped on entrance, saying
> "Immigration Admitted," which was generous of them
> since they were stamping a US passport. (This was not
> long after 9/11 and I've not heard of the US stamping
> a US passport at other times.) I haven't been to
> Mexico, or as we are now calling it here, "Baja Italy,"
> recently.

Dumbass -

It's all moot. If he went to Mexico, he should be able to say which
flight(s) he took to get there.

The airlines keep records of all that.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Howard Kveck

01-03-1970, 08:45 AM

In article <1185518389.176174.275000@g12g2000prg.googlegroups. com>,
"bjw@mambo.ucolick.org" <bjw@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote:

> On Jul 26, 2:47 pm, Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
> > benn.trov...@hotmail.com (' benn.trov...@hotmail.com') wrote:

> > Cassani: Slander.
> >
> > My guess is that he won't persue Cassani, because Cassani stated what he
> > believed to be true and meant no malice. The bank, however, clearly did
> > intend malice, and their exposure seems to me pretty much unlimited.
>
> I hear that after he wins this suit he's going to
> help O.J. find the real killers.

Can Rasmussen golf?

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Tom Kunich

01-03-1970, 08:46 AM

"Donald Munro" <fat-dumbass@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:46a9a9d6$0$4358$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.c om...
> cyclintom wrote:
>>>> That still doesn't answer the question of why he missed 4 out of
>>>> competition tests. And as Lance said - EVERYONE has cell phones,
>>>> internet connections or Blackberries these day. Why is it Rassmussen
>>>> couldn't be reached?
>
> Donald Munro wrote:
>>> LANCE would be better served by shutting up given the amount of time he
>>> spent in the company of Ferrari himself.
>
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>> You'd be a lot better served shutting your piehole what with your vast
>> experiences in gay bars.
>
> I was hoping you would be able to point out any that I may have missed.

I was hoping you'd comment about me not knowing that you were gay so that I
could point out that you don't have the slightest idea about Dr. Ferrari.
But then I've noticed that you often can't remember what the hell the
conversation is all about.

Michael Press

01-03-1970, 08:46 AM

In article
<46a9a9d6$0$4358$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com>,
Donald Munro <fat-dumbass@hotmail.com> wrote:

> cyclintom wrote:
> >>> That still doesn't answer the question of why he missed 4 out of
> >>> competition tests. And as Lance said - EVERYONE has cell phones,
> >>> internet connections or Blackberries these day. Why is it Rassmussen
> >>> couldn't be reached?
>
> Donald Munro wrote:
> >> LANCE would be better served by shutting up given the amount of time he
> >> spent in the company of Ferrari himself.
>
> Tom Kunich wrote:
> > You'd be a lot better served shutting your piehole what with your vast
> > experiences in gay bars.
>
> I was hoping you would be able to point out any that I may have missed.

Gilded Lily? Boys R Us? The Laughing Peruke?

--
Michael Press

Mark

01-03-1970, 08:46 AM

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> On Jul 26, 11:38 pm, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org>
> wrote:
>> On Jul 26, 7:07 pm, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org> writes:
>>>> He's an EU citizen, so he probably wouldn't get a
>>>> passport stamp on going to Italy (Could an EU
>>>> citizen confirm?)
>>> Usually they don't stamp passports anywhere where the holder does not
>>> require a visa for entry
>>> Stamping an EU passport upon entering an EU country I have never seen
>>> although it may happen. I don't know.
>>> However, passports are _sometimes_ scanned, but not always, and of
>>> course the scan will be recorded.
>> Thanks. The not-stamping differs from my experience
>> though (I am not an EU citizen). I have stamps from
>> Chile, Italy, Germany, Australia, and the United States
>> in my passport, and I didn't need a visa for any of them.
>> Chile, Germany, and Australia stamped on both entry and
>> exit. The US only stamped on entrance, saying
>> "Immigration Admitted," which was generous of them
>> since they were stamping a US passport. (This was not
>> long after 9/11 and I've not heard of the US stamping
>> a US passport at other times.) I haven't been to
>> Mexico, or as we are now calling it here, "Baja Italy,"
>> recently.
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> It's all moot. If he went to Mexico, he should be able to say which
> flight(s) he took to get there.
>
> The airlines keep records of all that.

No, see, he stowed away on a cargo ship with a mag trainer, and, um, the
dog ate his boarding pass, and besides, that airline is out of business now.

I'm impressed with how quickly the story changes from day to day. Sadly
reminiscent of FLandis last year.

Mark J.

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org

01-03-1970, 08:46 AM

On Jul 27, 1:24 am, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dumbass -
>
> It's all moot. If he went to Mexico, he should be able to say which
> flight(s) he took to get there.
>
> The airlines keep records of all that.

Dumbass,

Yes, and furthermore, he could prove it quite quickly
by getting to the airline website and printing out his
Frequent Flyer statement for June. A guy in his
profession with a wife from Mexico surely keeps track
of his frequent flyer miles, and if he doesn't, he
should be DQ'ed just for being an idiot.

I just like the passport argument because it's quite
direct, without the intermediate step of consulting
an airline:
- Show us your passport, then.
- No, that's private.
- Okay, then I guess you aren't serious about this.

Maybe it will all be a gross misunderstanding and
it's actually Tyler's twin that Cassani saw in Italy.
Nevertheless, I agree that there is likely something
stinky underneath and this was just the catalyst
and/or public cover reason.

Ben

Donald Munro

01-03-1970, 08:46 AM

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> Maybe it will all be a gross misunderstanding and
> it's actually Tyler's twin that Cassani saw in Italy.
> Nevertheless, I agree that there is likely something
> stinky underneath and this was just the catalyst
> and/or public cover reason.

Dumbass,
It was Rasmussen's chimera. He acquired one back when it was fashionable
and now its come back to haunt him.

Bike Mike

01-03-1970, 08:46 AM

Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:

>in message <84via3t1gi21sa3no2ict6eh3u5l2ssi3h@4ax.com>, Bike Mike
>('none@') wrote:
>
>> Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>If Rasmussen was telling the truth, and if my understanding of what has
>>>happened is correct:
>>>
>>>Rabobank, the team: Unjustified dismissal.
>>
>> No way to know this. It depends on the terms of his contract and the
>> offical reasons given to him. Evading 4 drug tests or the attendant
>> bad publicity could very well be sufficient cause.
>
>In Europe, one can know this. If he's been sacked for lying, and he didn't

No, I meant we dont know whats in his contract. His *various* actions
could be anywhere from mildly to flagrantly in violation. Since Rabo
undertakes the sponsorship in the interest of good publicity, it
almost certainly includes clauses requiring MR to represent Rabo in
the best possible light and complying with cycling federation rules
including drug tests.

>
>> Certainly, Rabobank has spoken to Cassani. Some reports indicate
>> actually spoke to MR in Italy, in which case there is a pretty clear
>> case of lying.
>
>Yup. If Cassani knows Rasmussen, and if he claims he spoke to him, then
>that makes it a much stronger story.

More recent reports indicate even more. Cassani didnt rat on MR, he
just mentioned in his broadcast what a hard worker he was, 'why, I
even saw him riding in the mountains in Italy, in the driving rain,
just a few weeks ago!'

A Dutch journalist herad this and investigated further which let the
cat (or chicken) out of the bag.

When confronted with this by Rabo, MR admitted he had been in Italy.

At the same time, the tour appears to have been pressuring Rabo to
drop him since he should not have been allowed to start. With the lie
exposed they could no longer stand behind him and fired him.

>
>>>Rabobank, the bank: Slander <- this is the big one.
>>
>> Not likely. They havent accused him of anything like child
>> molestation or doping. Most of all. I havent seen them specifically
>> mention dope. Quite the opposite:
>>
>> "I think this decision is not directly linked to doping. He has not
>> been tested positive."
>> - Helen Crielaard, head of sponsorship at Rabobank
>
>They have, however, told their sponsored team that they want him dropped,
>and the reason they appear to have given is dishonesty. Which, if he
>wasn't dishonest, is the most serious kind of slander,

They have been careful to only accuse him of what he has admitted to.
On top of which, in most places it is exceedingly difficult for public
persona to win slander suits. Thats why so few are brought.

> because it cost him not just his job but his career.

And, as yet, it hasnt cost him anything but this year's TdF. He isnt
suspended cycling nor excluded from next year's tour.

Simon Brooke

01-03-1970, 08:47 AM

in message <j3rja3dgp6stfklt8tmqkft6evs7bctsqg@4ax.com>, Bike Mike
('none@') wrote:

> Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>in message <84via3t1gi21sa3no2ict6eh3u5l2ssi3h@4ax.com>, Bike Mike
>>('none@') wrote:
>>
>>> Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>If Rasmussen was telling the truth, and if my understanding of what has
>>>>happened is correct:
>>>>
>>>>Rabobank, the team: Unjustified dismissal.
>>>
>>> No way to know this. It depends on the terms of his contract and the
>>> offical reasons given to him. Evading 4 drug tests or the attendant
>>> bad publicity could very well be sufficient cause.
>>
>>In Europe, one can know this. If he's been sacked for lying, and he
>>didn't
>
> No, I meant we dont know whats in his contract.

We know the limits of what could be in his contract, because in Europe
employment law trumps employment contracts every time. If a single clause
in a contract of employment violates employment law, the whole contract is
likely to be void.

The reason that has been given for dismissing Rasmussen is that he lied.
But if it is not true that he lied, then that is unfair dismissal - open
and shut - and he is entitled to damages equal to what he could have been
expected to earn if he had remained in his job, plus legal costs. Which in
his case is a big hill of money, as it will include the personal
sponsorship contracts which he might have been expected to get as a tour
winner, as well as many years of substantially enhanced salary as tour
winner.

Rabobank (the team) better be right that he was lying; either that, or call
in the receivers.

> His *various* actions
> could be anywhere from mildly to flagrantly in violation. Since Rabo
> undertakes the sponsorship in the interest of good publicity, it
> almost certainly includes clauses requiring MR to represent Rabo in
> the best possible light and complying with cycling federation rules
> including drug tests.
>
>>
>>> Certainly, Rabobank has spoken to Cassani. Some reports indicate
>>> actually spoke to MR in Italy, in which case there is a pretty clear
>>> case of lying.
>>
>>Yup. If Cassani knows Rasmussen, and if he claims he spoke to him, then
>>that makes it a much stronger story.
>
> More recent reports indicate even more. Cassani didnt rat on MR, he
> just mentioned in his broadcast what a hard worker he was, 'why, I
> even saw him riding in the mountains in Italy, in the driving rain,
> just a few weeks ago!'

Yup. Which sounds a very credible story. And if it's true, Rasmussen has
got what he deserved.

> When confronted with this by Rabo, MR admitted he had been in Italy.

So says Theo de Rooij. Rasmussen says the opposite - and no-one else was
present.

>>They have, however, told their sponsored team that they want him dropped,
>>and the reason they appear to have given is dishonesty. Which, if he
>>wasn't dishonest, is the most serious kind of slander,
>
> They have been careful to only accuse him of what he has admitted to.

They've accused him of lying; he denies lying. They've accused him of being
in Italy in June; he denies he was in Italy in June. If he's right and
they're wrong, they are in a heap of trouble.

>> because it cost him not just his job but his career.
>
> And, as yet, it hasnt cost him anything but this year's TdF. He isnt
> suspended cycling nor excluded from next year's tour.

It's cost him being winner of the tour. Furthermore, if he does not fight
this and win, he'll never get a job in cycling again (and I suspect if he
does fight in and win, he'll still never get another job... but he won't
need to).

--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; lovely alternative to rice.

Morten Reippuert Knudsen

01-03-1970, 08:47 AM

Bike Mike <none@> wrote:
> Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:

> >in message <f8as8l$alp$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu>, chester
> >('chester@hotmeal.com') wrote:
> >
> >> Davey Crockett wrote:

> >
> >> He has no grounds. He violated the UCI rules and probably
> >> should not have started the tour.
> >
> >No, he didn't. He violated a procedure. If he had missed three UCI tests,
> >he would have broken the rule - but he didn't.
> >

> If you missed a drug test within 45 days when the tour begins, you are
> not allowed to the start in it.

Shure you are. If it hasn't been posible to test a rider within 45 days
prior to the tour you are not allowed to start.
Rasmussen has been available within the 45 days and was endeed testet
within those 45 days. However durring the 45 day period, there where
22 days where he wasn't available for testing.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

Bike Mike

01-03-1970, 08:50 AM

Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:

>in message <j3rja3dgp6stfklt8tmqkft6evs7bctsqg@4ax.com>, Bike Mike
>('none@') wrote:
>
>> Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>in message <84via3t1gi21sa3no2ict6eh3u5l2ssi3h@4ax.com>, Bike Mike
>>>('none@') wrote:
>>>
>>>> Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>If Rasmussen was telling the truth, and if my understanding of what has
>>>>>happened is correct:
>>>>>
>>>>>Rabobank, the team: Unjustified dismissal.
>>>>
>>>> No way to know this. It depends on the terms of his contract and the
>>>> offical reasons given to him. Evading 4 drug tests or the attendant
>>>> bad publicity could very well be sufficient cause.
>>>
>>>In Europe, one can know this. If he's been sacked for lying, and he
>>>didn't
>>
>> No, I meant we dont know whats in his contract.
>
>We know the limits of what could be in his contract, because in Europe
>employment law trumps employment contracts every time. If a single clause
>in a contract of employment violates employment law, the whole contract is
>likely to be void.

Still a very large differnce between knowing the terms and
conjecturing what /might/ be in it.

>>>
>>>Yup. If Cassani knows Rasmussen, and if he claims he spoke to him, then
>>>that makes it a much stronger story.
>>
>> More recent reports indicate even more. Cassani didnt rat on MR, he
>> just mentioned in his broadcast what a hard worker he was, 'why, I
>> even saw him riding in the mountains in Italy, in the driving rain,
>> just a few weeks ago!'
>
>Yup. Which sounds a very credible story. And if it's true, Rasmussen has
>got what he deserved.
>
>> When confronted with this by Rabo, MR admitted he had been in Italy.
>
>So says Theo de Rooij. Rasmussen says the opposite - and no-one else was
>present.

Where did you get that no one else was present? There werent likely
to be other riders or journalists, but hard to believe when this stuff
started that Rabo didnt send someone to France having a bit more
authority than the team manager.

If it was just them, it hardly helps any hypothetical case since it
would be MR's word against Theo.

>
>>> because it cost him not just his job but his career.
>>
>> And, as yet, it hasnt cost him anything but this year's TdF. He isnt
>> suspended cycling nor excluded from next year's tour.
>
>It's cost him being winner of the tour. Furthermore, if he does not fight
>this and win, he'll never get a job in cycling again

You cant possibly know that. He hasnt tested positive after all. A
little humilty and some well planned image building and a team could
easily pick him up.

Simon Brooke

01-03-1970, 08:50 AM

in message <9jaka3122eogvrc3r380n84g15hbruav40@4ax.com>, Bike Mike
('none@') wrote:

> Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>in message <j3rja3dgp6stfklt8tmqkft6evs7bctsqg@4ax.com>, Bike Mike
>>('none@') wrote:
>>
>>> No, I meant we dont know whats in his contract.
>>
>>We know the limits of what could be in his contract, because in Europe
>>employment law trumps employment contracts every time. If a single clause
>>in a contract of employment violates employment law, the whole contract
>>is likely to be void.
>
> Still a very large differnce between knowing the terms and
> conjecturing what /might/ be in it.

We do know, however, that if they sacked him for lying and he wasn't lying,
they're in **** so deep you'll need a bathyscathe to reach them.

--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

There are no messages. The above is just a random stream of
bytes. Any opinion or meaning you find in it is your own creation.

Morten Reippuert Knudsen

01-03-1970, 08:50 AM

Bike Mike <none@> wrote:

> You cant possibly know that. He hasnt tested positive after all. A
> little humilty and some well planned image building and a team could
> easily pick him up.

With the knowladge of ASO leaving UCI (a quite serious step) next year
its not likely that ASO lets him race in any ASO race again.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

Morten Reippuert Knudsen

01-03-1970, 08:50 AM

Bike Mike <none@> wrote:
> Morten Reippuert Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk> wrote:

> >chester <chester@hotmeal.com> wrote:
> >
> >> He missed 4 random doping tests. He failed to notify teams of his
> >> whereabouts. He has no grounds. He violated the UCI rules and probably
> >> should not have started the tour.
> >
> >You should tject your facts, he didn't miss 4 out of competition
> >tests!
> >
> >1. written warning from UCI
> > Recived 24/03/2006 for not sending 2. quarter wherabouts in due
> > time. Due time was 15/03/2006. Rasmussen took part in criterium
> > international when the warening was issued. Rasmussen send the
> > whereabouts to UCI on 03/04/06. The warning will expire on
> > 24/09/2007.*

> The mainstream press is reporting this as a missed test.

Well acording to ADD and UCI it isn't, if anyone knows it must be
them, right?.

ASO for shure had an interest in claiming it to be a missed test, and
the press where screaming so loud that they couldn't hear themselves.
Sadly most of the English speaking press followed suit. I've been
especially disgusted by Joe Lindsey.

> >2. written warning from ADD
> > Recived 08/05/2007 for not beeing pressent for out-of--competition
> > test on 06/04/2007 by ADD.
> >
> >3. written warning from ADD
> > Recived 28/06/2007 for not beeing pressent for out-of-competition
> > test on 28/06/2007 by ADD.

> This one is interesting. He did miss a test within 45 days of the
> start.

yes, but ADD/UCI _did_ test him durring those 45 days, so according the
rules it's not enough to exclude him. They just didn't test him on
21/06/2007.*

If memory serves me right ADD performed an out-of-competition test on
26/06/2007.

> The Tour wanted to use that as a means to exlude MR from the
> race. UCI disagrees indicating that they had been able to test him on
> the 29th (same day they gave him a warning).

(*) Actually i made an error, the warning issued on 28/06/2007 was for
not beeing pressent for out-of-competition test on 21/06/2007. The
warning was not issued the same day as Rasmussen wasn't pressent.

> It depends on how you want to interpret rule 220. The Tour wants to
> be aggressive and count the missed test as a disqualifier. The UCI
> says this is mitigated by the fact he was available for a different
> test. He was both available and unavailable in the period.

The tour doen't have **** to say about doping tests, it's a matter for
the UCI, WADA and the national federations and their antidoping
agencies.

> >4. recorded warning from UCI
> > Recived 29/06/2007 for failing to update whereabouts for the period
> > 04/06/2007 to 12/06/2007. The UCI didn't recived the update until
> > 11/06/2007. Rasmussen raced Giro d'Italia from 18/05/2007 to
> > 03/06/2007.

> This stinks. Notified them the day before.

Wich is why he recived a recorded warning, however the letter has an
Italian post stamp saying 08/06/2007.

Ramussen took part in Giro d'Italia until 03/06/2007. On 04/06/2007 he
left to Mexico, initially he planed to travel to Mexico on 12/06/2007.

I'ts quite posible that the letter was in the local postoffice for 4
days until beeing proccesed and stamped. Secondly the rules clearly
states that snail mail is a certified method for updating whereabouts.

It should be notet that neither UCI or ADD attempted to test him
between 04/06/2007 and 12/06/2007.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

Donald Munro

01-03-1970, 08:51 AM

cyclintom wrote:
>>>>> That still doesn't answer the question of why he missed 4 out of
>>>>> competition tests. And as Lance said - EVERYONE has cell phones,
>>>>> internet connections or Blackberries these day. Why is it Rassmussen
>>>>> couldn't be reached?

Donald Munro wrote:
>>>> LANCE would be better served by shutting up given the amount of time he
>>>> spent in the company of Ferrari himself.

Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> You'd be a lot better served shutting your piehole what with your vast
>>> experiences in gay bars.

Donald Munro wrote:
>> I was hoping you would be able to point out any that I may have missed.

Tom Kunich wrote:
> I was hoping you'd comment about me not knowing that you were gay so that I
> could point out that you don't have the slightest idea about Dr. Ferrari.
> But then I've noticed that you often can't remember what the hell the
> conversation is all about.

You mean there's a cosy gay bar in Bologna in which you and Ferrari
conduct Conconi tests ?

Bike Mike

01-03-1970, 08:54 AM

Morten Reippuert Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk> wrote:

>Bike Mike <none@> wrote:
>
>> You cant possibly know that. He hasnt tested positive after all. A
>> little humilty and some well planned image building and a team could
>> easily pick him up.
>
>With the knowladge of ASO leaving UCI (a quite serious step) next year
>its not likely that ASO lets him race in any ASO race again.

He hasnt tested positive and no one has leveled sanctions against him.
The rule they wanted to use to exclude him this year applied to this
race only. As far as I know, unlike some of the others they didnt
even raid him hotel room etc.

As it stands /now/ the only thing he lacks is a sponsor. That might
not be as easy as it would be without the controversy, but thats part
of skirting the rules right up to the edge.

Morten Reippuert Knudsen

01-03-1970, 09:00 AM

Bike Mike <none@> wrote:
> Morten Reippuert Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk> wrote:

> >Bike Mike <none@> wrote:
> >
> >> You cant possibly know that. He hasnt tested positive after all. A
> >> little humilty and some well planned image building and a team could
> >> easily pick him up.
> >
> >With the knowladge of ASO leaving UCI (a quite serious step) next year
> >its not likely that ASO lets him race in any ASO race again.

> He hasnt tested positive and no one has leveled sanctions against him.
> The rule they wanted to use to exclude him this year applied to this
> race only.

Rasmussen has become a symbol for ASO. Belive me he won't enter a ASO
race again, with ASO leaving UCI and becomming a showbuiz event it won't
happen.

> As far as I know, unlike some of the others they didnt even raid him
> hotel room etc.

Corect, if UCI/ADD can prove that he was not in Mexico he wil get a
third warning, and UCI will build a _diciplinary_ case against him
(not the same as a doping case). A displinary case can lead to a 3-12
month quarentine.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

RonSonic

01-03-1970, 09:01 AM

On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 22:45:36 +0200, Morten Reippuert Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk>
wrote:

>Bike Mike <none@> wrote:
>> Morten Reippuert Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk> wrote:
>
>> >Bike Mike <none@> wrote:
>> >
>> >> You cant possibly know that. He hasnt tested positive after all. A
>> >> little humilty and some well planned image building and a team could
>> >> easily pick him up.
>> >
>> >With the knowladge of ASO leaving UCI (a quite serious step) next year
>> >its not likely that ASO lets him race in any ASO race again.
>
>> He hasnt tested positive and no one has leveled sanctions against him.
>> The rule they wanted to use to exclude him this year applied to this
>> race only.
>
>Rasmussen has become a symbol for ASO. Belive me he won't enter a ASO
>race again, with ASO leaving UCI and becomming a showbuiz event it won't
>happen.
>
>> As far as I know, unlike some of the others they didnt even raid him
>> hotel room etc.
>
>Corect, if UCI/ADD can prove that he was not in Mexico he wil get a
>third warning, and UCI will build a _diciplinary_ case against him
>(not the same as a doping case). A displinary case can lead to a 3-12
>month quarentine.

Might be a good way for him to get rid of the cooties. Sit out the remainder of
the season and sign with someone for next year after mouthing the expected
pieties.

Ron