Spokes: how many can you break?

[Mike Kruger]

How many spokes can you break before a wheel collapses?

Just got back from a brief tour. My daughter, riding behind me, asked how
she could tell if she'd broken a spoke. This, of course, led to the
discovery that she'd broken not just one spoke, but 3. We limped into town,
but by then she'd broken another two and had 5 broken spokes on the rear, 4
of these on the drive side. Three were togethe in one spot; the other two
were about 1/5th of the way around.

This was our last day. We got up extra early the next morning to catch
Amtrak so if the wheel collapsed we had enough time to carry the bike to the
train station -- but the wheel held.

It's replacement time, of course. Who would trust the wheel again? But I'm
wondering if anyone's had a wheel hold with this many -- or more -- spokes
broken.

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

Mike "Happy not to be Freddy" Kruger wrote:
> How many spokes can you break before a wheel collapses?
>
> Just got back from a brief tour. My daughter, riding behind me, asked how
> she could tell if she'd broken a spoke. This, of course, led to the
> discovery that she'd broken not just one spoke, but 3. We limped into town,
> but by then she'd broken another two and had 5 broken spokes on the rear, 4
> of these on the drive side. Three were togethe in one spot; the other two
> were about 1/5th of the way around.
>
> This was our last day. We got up extra early the next morning to catch
> Amtrak so if the wheel collapsed we had enough time to carry the bike to the
> train station -- but the wheel held.
>
> It's replacement time, of course. Who would trust the wheel again? But I'm
> wondering if anyone's had a wheel hold with this many -- or more -- spokes
> broken.

If the rim is decent, re-spoke with quality stainless steel spokes,
tension properly, stress relieve, do final truing and forget about it
until the rim wears out.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

[Peter Cole]

Mike Kruger wrote:
> How many spokes can you break before a wheel collapses?
>
> Just got back from a brief tour. My daughter, riding behind me, asked how
> she could tell if she'd broken a spoke. This, of course, led to the
> discovery that she'd broken not just one spoke, but 3. We limped into town,
> but by then she'd broken another two and had 5 broken spokes on the rear, 4
> of these on the drive side. Three were togethe in one spot; the other two
> were about 1/5th of the way around.
>
> This was our last day. We got up extra early the next morning to catch
> Amtrak so if the wheel collapsed we had enough time to carry the bike to the
> train station -- but the wheel held.
>
> It's replacement time, of course. Who would trust the wheel again? But I'm
> wondering if anyone's had a wheel hold with this many -- or more -- spokes
> broken.
>
>

Never seen that many broken spokes, any idea why? How old was this
wheel, what kind was it, was it ever stress relieved or tensioned?

[Artemisia]

Mike Kruger wrote:
> How many spokes can you break before a wheel collapses?

On a recent tour around Lake Constance, I broke two spokes on the back
wheel of my Dahon. I stopped riding immediately, finished the tour on
the efficient local train service, and took the bike to an excellent LBS
near the Contance station. The mechanic there told me that the spokes
had been outrageously over-tightened, and more or less set up to go pop
in series. Just prior to the trip, I had taken the bike for an overall
tune-up to a mechanic near me in France whom I was beginning, for
reasons connected to another bike, to mistrust. Turns out that in
addition to overtightening the spokes, he had charged me for the
replacement of a brake cable that had _not_ been replaced, and was on
the point of failing. I'm never going back to the local mechanic again.
I thank the Gods for that grumpy but providential German, who proabably
saved me from a nasty accident.

EFR
Ile de France

[Stephen Harding]

Mike Kruger wrote:

> This was our last day. We got up extra early the next morning to catch
> Amtrak so if the wheel collapsed we had enough time to carry the bike to the
> train station -- but the wheel held.

You got your bikes on Amtrak?

I just passed up using Amtrak because on the line I was interested
in, they would only allow true, folding bikes, as carry on to the
train. They took no checked baggage so a folding bike was the only
way to use the bike on tour, combined with Amtrak.

Too bad. Several years ago I took my bike on the Amtrak "Vermonter"
to St Albans, VT and rode it back home. The train ride was a great
part of the trip.

No more I guess.


SMH

[catzz66]

Mike Kruger wrote:
> How many spokes can you break before a wheel collapses?
>
> Just got back from a brief tour. My daughter, riding behind me, asked how
> she could tell if she'd broken a spoke. This, of course, led to the
> discovery that she'd broken not just one spoke, but 3. We limped into town,
> but by then she'd broken another two and had 5 broken spokes on the rear, 4
> of these on the drive side. Three were togethe in one spot; the other two
> were about 1/5th of the way around.
>
> This was our last day. We got up extra early the next morning to catch
> Amtrak so if the wheel collapsed we had enough time to carry the bike to the
> train station -- but the wheel held.
>
> It's replacement time, of course. Who would trust the wheel again? But I'm
> wondering if anyone's had a wheel hold with this many -- or more -- spokes
> broken.
>
>

My one and only experience with a broken spoke nipple... It only took
one loose spoke for the entire wheel to get so far bent that it would
not even roll. Chances are, the spoke nipple snapped and I rode the
bike home without incident one day and the deformed wheel happened over
the weekend as I was riding another bike. It was a new bike and the
wheel probably was overstressed when I got it. Have put another couple
of hundred miles on it at about 10 miles per day without further problems.

[Hank Wirtz]

On Jul 27, 7:12 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Mike "Happy not to be Freddy" Kruger wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > How many spokes can you break before a wheel collapses?
>
> > Just got back from a brief tour. My daughter, riding behind me, asked how
> > she could tell if she'd broken a spoke. This, of course, led to the
> > discovery that she'd broken not just one spoke, but 3. We limped into town,
> > but by then she'd broken another two and had 5 broken spokes on the rear, 4
> > of these on the drive side. Three were togethe in one spot; the other two
> > were about 1/5th of the way around.
>
> > This was our last day. We got up extra early the next morning to catch
> > Amtrak so if the wheel collapsed we had enough time to carry the bike to the
> > train station -- but the wheel held.
>
> > It's replacement time, of course. Who would trust the wheel again? But I'm
> > wondering if anyone's had a wheel hold with this many -- or more -- spokes
> > broken.
>
> If the rim is decent, re-spoke with quality stainless steel spokes,
> tension properly, stress relieve, do final truing and forget about it
> until the rim wears out.
>

I doubt the rim is OK at this point - that many broken spokes probably
caused some pretty bad potato-chipping, Respoking it will force you to
use uneven tension to get it true, which is probably just going to
cause more broken spokes. I'd cut the spokes out (which you'll need to
do anyway if you want to attempt a rebuild). lay the rim against a
flat surface. If you can rock it back and forthmore than, say, 1/8 of
an inch, replace the rim.

[Mike Kruger]

Peter Cole wrote:
> Mike Kruger wrote:
>> How many spokes can you break before a wheel collapses?
>>
>> Just got back from a brief tour. My daughter, riding behind me,
>> asked how she could tell if she'd broken a spoke. This, of course,
>> led to the discovery that she'd broken not just one spoke, but 3. We
>> limped into town, but by then she'd broken another two and had 5
>> broken spokes on the rear, 4 of these on the drive side. Three were
>> togethe in one spot; the other two were about 1/5th of the way
>> around. This was our last day. We got up extra early the next morning to
>> catch Amtrak so if the wheel collapsed we had enough time to carry
>> the bike to the train station -- but the wheel held.
>>
>> It's replacement time, of course. Who would trust the wheel again? But
>> I'm wondering if anyone's had a wheel hold with this many -- or
>> more -- spokes broken.
>>
>>
>
> Never seen that many broken spokes, any idea why? How old was this
> wheel, what kind was it, was it ever stress relieved or tensioned?

The bike is a Schwinn Caliente from the 1970's. Wheel is aluminum and newer,
but it's an old one of mine that I gave her, probably in 2004. I think this
is the wheel I got at RAGBRAI when my wheel died on the road, and it's
doubtful it was stress relieved.

It's quite likely that better maintenance on her part would not have
prevented this problem. We're just lucky it occurred at the end of the tour.
As to the 5 -- once you break one, it weakens the wheel and makes further
breakage more likely. I'm guessing we were near the point when the wheel
just gives out, although it hadn't gone out of true far enough to rub
against the brakes.

[Mike Kruger]

Stephen Harding wrote:
> Mike Kruger wrote:
>
>> This was our last day. We got up extra early the next morning to
>> catch Amtrak so if the wheel collapsed we had enough time to carry
>> the bike to the train station -- but the wheel held.
>
> You got your bikes on Amtrak?
>
> I just passed up using Amtrak because on the line I was interested
> in, they would only allow true, folding bikes, as carry on to the
> train. They took no checked baggage so a folding bike was the only
> way to use the bike on tour, combined with Amtrak.
>
> Too bad. Several years ago I took my bike on the Amtrak "Vermonter"
> to St Albans, VT and rode it back home. The train ride was a great
> part of the trip.
>
It varies by train. On this particular train (Quincy to Chicago) they have
roll-on service (no need to box or disassemble the bike), and the bike had
its own ticket ($10).

Of the two conductors, one was aware of this and knew what to do. The other
was clueless-headed-toward-hostile.