Recumbent owners

[Just A User]

Any feed back on either the Bacchetta Giro 20 or the Volae tour? I am
thinking about plunking down some cash for a better recumbent. I think I
will opt for the carbon seat for the one I end up buying.

[Roger Zoul]

bentrideronline.com

Just A User wrote:
:: Any feed back on either the Bacchetta Giro 20 or the Volae tour? I am
:: thinking about plunking down some cash for a better recumbent. I
:: think I will opt for the carbon seat for the one I end up buying.

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

"Just A User"? wrote:
> Any feed back on either the Bacchetta Giro 20 or the Volae tour? I am
> thinking about plunking down some cash for a better recumbent. I think I
> will opt for the carbon seat for the one I end up buying.

Keep in mind that the Volae frames are built by Waterford Precision
Cycles in Waterford (where else?), Wisconsin [1], while the Bacchetta
steel frames are (the last time I checked) made in Taiwan [2]. While
there is nothing wrong quality-wise with any Taiwanese frame sold
through a LBS (that I am aware of), Waterford builds to a very high
standard.

[1] I must admit to some bias, since the workers at Waterford are
practically my neighbors.
[2] Non-mainland China for Jobst. ;)

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

[Zebee Johnstone]

In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on Sun, 29 Jul 2007 13:04:25 -0400
Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
> Any feed back on either the Bacchetta Giro 20 or the Volae tour? I am
> thinking about plunking down some cash for a better recumbent. I think I
> will opt for the carbon seat for the one I end up buying.

Why opt for the carbon seat?

The recurve is better for more upright (which is how I like it) most
folk find the euromesh an excellent compromise between comfort and
performance for the more laid back types.

I find my Giro a damn nice bike. Not that I've got much to compare it
with, only other bents I've ridden have been an early taiwanese one
and a Greenspeed trike.

Zebee

[Just A User]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> bentrideronline.com
>
> Just A User wrote:
> :: Any feed back on either the Bacchetta Giro 20 or the Volae tour? I am
> :: thinking about plunking down some cash for a better recumbent. I
> :: think I will opt for the carbon seat for the one I end up buying.
>
>
Yeah I have already posted a message there about these two bikes. Seems
to be limited feedback about them so I thought I would post here as well.

[Michael Warner]

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 13:23:14 -0400, Roger Zoul wrote:

> bentrideronline.com

Sounds like diverse competition for that cyclingsingles site.

[Just A User]

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
> "Just A User"? wrote:
>> Any feed back on either the Bacchetta Giro 20 or the Volae tour? I am
>> thinking about plunking down some cash for a better recumbent. I think I
>> will opt for the carbon seat for the one I end up buying.
>
> Keep in mind that the Volae frames are built by Waterford Precision
> Cycles in Waterford (where else?), Wisconsin [1], while the Bacchetta
> steel frames are (the last time I checked) made in Taiwan [2]. While
> there is nothing wrong quality-wise with any Taiwanese frame sold
> through a LBS (that I am aware of), Waterford builds to a very high
> standard.
>
> [1] I must admit to some bias, since the workers at Waterford are
> practically my neighbors.
> [2] Non-mainland China for Jobst. ;)
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
>
>
>

I was curious about where the Bacchetta frames are made. Thanks for that
bit of info.

[Roger Zoul]

Just A User wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: bentrideronline.com
:::
::: Just A User wrote:
::::: Any feed back on either the Bacchetta Giro 20 or the Volae tour?
::::: I am thinking about plunking down some cash for a better
::::: recumbent. I think I will opt for the carbon seat for the one I
::::: end up buying.
:::
:::
:: Yeah I have already posted a message there about these two bikes.
:: Seems to be limited feedback about them so I thought I would post
:: here as well.

Any reason not to consider some other bike?

[Just A User]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> Just A User wrote:
> :: Roger Zoul wrote:
> ::: bentrideronline.com
> :::
> ::: Just A User wrote:
> ::::: Any feed back on either the Bacchetta Giro 20 or the Volae tour?
> ::::: I am thinking about plunking down some cash for a better
> ::::: recumbent. I think I will opt for the carbon seat for the one I
> ::::: end up buying.
> :::
> :::
> :: Yeah I have already posted a message there about these two bikes.
> :: Seems to be limited feedback about them so I thought I would post
> :: here as well.
>
> Any reason not to consider some other bike?
>
>

PING! I test rode two swb bents yesterday. Then the shop also had a
customer with a Tour Easy who let me ride that around the parking area.
I rode the swb and felt a bit uneasy about the way my legs were over the
front wheel. Then I rode the T.E. and felt so at home in that cockpit, I
guess I am just a LWB rider. So the swb might be a bad choice. Might
have to go with another lwb, but way better than the EZ-1 I have now.
Thinking maybe a regular Stratus or the Stratus XP.

[Just A User]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> Just A User wrote:
> :: Roger Zoul wrote:
> ::: bentrideronline.com
> :::
> ::: Just A User wrote:
> ::::: Any feed back on either the Bacchetta Giro 20 or the Volae tour?
> ::::: I am thinking about plunking down some cash for a better
> ::::: recumbent. I think I will opt for the carbon seat for the one I
> ::::: end up buying.
> :::
> :::
> :: Yeah I have already posted a message there about these two bikes.
> :: Seems to be limited feedback about them so I thought I would post
> :: here as well.
>
> Any reason not to consider some other bike?
>
>
No not really, just those two are just the two that look best in my eye.
I also have the Lighting Phantom, Rans V-Rex and Barcroft Virgina GT on
my list. Although I think the Barcroft is a little out of my price bracket.

[Roger Zoul]

Just A User wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Just A User wrote:
::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::::: bentrideronline.com
::::::
:::::: Just A User wrote:
:::::::: Any feed back on either the Bacchetta Giro 20 or the Volae
:::::::: tour? I am thinking about plunking down some cash for a better
:::::::: recumbent. I think I will opt for the carbon seat for the one I
:::::::: end up buying.
::::::
::::::
::::: Yeah I have already posted a message there about these two bikes.
::::: Seems to be limited feedback about them so I thought I would post
::::: here as well.
:::
::: Any reason not to consider some other bike?
:::
:::
:: No not really, just those two are just the two that look best in my
:: eye.
:: I also have the Lighting Phantom, Rans V-Rex and Barcroft Virgina GT
:: on
:: my list. Although I think the Barcroft is a little out of my price
:: bracket.

Don't you find having two wheel sizes to be a pain?

[Just A User]

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on Sun, 29 Jul 2007 13:04:25 -0400
> Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
>> Any feed back on either the Bacchetta Giro 20 or the Volae tour? I am
>> thinking about plunking down some cash for a better recumbent. I think I
>> will opt for the carbon seat for the one I end up buying.
>
> Why opt for the carbon seat?
>
> The recurve is better for more upright (which is how I like it) most
> folk find the euromesh an excellent compromise between comfort and
> performance for the more laid back types.
>
> I find my Giro a damn nice bike. Not that I've got much to compare it
> with, only other bents I've ridden have been an early taiwanese one
> and a Greenspeed trike.
>
> Zebee
From what I have read the carbon seat allows for a better transfer of
power. About the taiwanese frame, all three bikes currently in my stable
are asian made and all have been fine so far. So that fact doesn't scare me.

[DougC]

Roger Zoul wrote:
>
> Don't you find having two wheel sizes to be a pain?
>

Generally, no.
All it means (to me) is that one carries two spare tubes instead of just
one. Unless you're determined to travel ultra-light, it's generally not
a problem. -But then, if you want a light weight ride, it would be using
narrower tires and rims anyway, and carrying an extra 1" wide tube is
nothing--especially if it's a 20" diameter tube.

It did worry me when I bought my first recumbent [a 20f/26r wheel bike]
but I keep a spare set of tires at home and order another whenever I
destroy one. I tend to ruin them a lot slower than the U.P.S. truck can
bring them, so it's no problem.

What I think is more of a problem is if you buy a bike that uses a
relatively odd size wheel, like 451mm or 650(any!). This can become a
bothersome issue if you are touring and suddenly rip through your last
good tire in the middle of nowhere. ....If you buy a bike that uses 559
or 406mm wheels, you can walk into just about anywhere that sells
bicycle tires and find something that you can use (both in tubes and
tires). Even places like Wal-Mart and many hardware stores will have
something there.
~

[Just A User]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> Just A User wrote:
> :: Roger Zoul wrote:
> ::: Just A User wrote:
> ::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
> :::::: bentrideronline.com
> ::::::
> :::::: Just A User wrote:
> :::::::: Any feed back on either the Bacchetta Giro 20 or the Volae
> :::::::: tour? I am thinking about plunking down some cash for a better
> :::::::: recumbent. I think I will opt for the carbon seat for the one I
> :::::::: end up buying.
> ::::::
> ::::::
> ::::: Yeah I have already posted a message there about these two bikes.
> ::::: Seems to be limited feedback about them so I thought I would post
> ::::: here as well.
> :::
> ::: Any reason not to consider some other bike?
> :::
> :::
> :: No not really, just those two are just the two that look best in my
> :: eye.
> :: I also have the Lighting Phantom, Rans V-Rex and Barcroft Virgina GT
> :: on
> :: my list. Although I think the Barcroft is a little out of my price
> :: bracket.
>
> Don't you find having two wheel sizes to be a pain?
>
>
No not really. I usually always have a set of spares at home. Plus the
spares that stay in my seatbag. And I always ride with a patch kit too.

[Just A User]

Michael Warner wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 13:23:14 -0400, Roger Zoul wrote:
>
>> bentrideronline.com
>
> Sounds like diverse competition for that cyclingsingles site.
No, it's a really good site for recumbent enthusiasts. No trolls like
the recumbent newsgroup.

[Roger Zoul]

Michael Warner wrote:
:: On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 13:23:14 -0400, Roger Zoul wrote:
::
::: bentrideronline.com
::
:: Sounds like diverse competition for that cyclingsingles site.

haha!

[Roger Zoul]

DougC wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::
::: Don't you find having two wheel sizes to be a pain?
:::
::
:: Generally, no.
:: All it means (to me) is that one carries two spare tubes instead of
:: just one. Unless you're determined to travel ultra-light, it's
:: generally not a problem. -But then, if you want a light weight ride,
:: it would be using narrower tires and rims anyway, and carrying an
:: extra 1" wide tube is nothing--especially if it's a 20" diameter
:: tube.

I see. I guess I worry that if you're having a really bad day, and get a
flat twice on the same wheel....

Also, you might grab the wrong size before some trip, only to find out
later. That one reason I got a 26/26. Another was the smaller front just
didnt seem to feel right to me....

With my DF (which I need to show love to too) and a 26/26, I already have
two sizes of tires and tubes to keep. Oh, I have two sizes of tires 1.25 and
1.5 inch) for my 26/26. It gets complicated after a while. If/when I had a
trike in here.... :)

::
:: It did worry me when I bought my first recumbent [a 20f/26r wheel
:: bike] but I keep a spare set of tires at home and order another
:: whenever I destroy one. I tend to ruin them a lot slower than the
:: U.P.S. truck can bring them, so it's no problem.
::
:: What I think is more of a problem is if you buy a bike that uses a
:: relatively odd size wheel, like 451mm or 650(any!). This can become a
:: bothersome issue if you are touring and suddenly rip through your
:: last good tire in the middle of nowhere. ....If you buy a bike that
:: uses 559 or 406mm wheels, you can walk into just about anywhere that
:: sells bicycle tires and find something that you can use (both in
:: tubes and tires). Even places like Wal-Mart and many hardware stores
:: will have something there.
:: ~

That makes sense.

[Roger Zoul]

Just A User wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Just A User wrote:
::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::::: Just A User wrote:
:::::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
::::::::: bentrideronline.com
:::::::::
::::::::: Just A User wrote:
::::::::::: Any feed back on either the Bacchetta Giro 20 or the Volae
::::::::::: tour? I am thinking about plunking down some cash for a
::::::::::: better recumbent. I think I will opt for the carbon seat
::::::::::: for the one I end up buying.
:::::::::
:::::::::
:::::::: Yeah I have already posted a message there about these two
:::::::: bikes. Seems to be limited feedback about them so I thought I
:::::::: would post here as well.
::::::
:::::: Any reason not to consider some other bike?
::::::
::::::
::::: No not really, just those two are just the two that look best in
::::: my eye.
::::: I also have the Lighting Phantom, Rans V-Rex and Barcroft Virgina
::::: GT on
::::: my list. Although I think the Barcroft is a little out of my price
::::: bracket.
:::
::: Don't you find having two wheel sizes to be a pain?
:::
:::
:: No not really. I usually always have a set of spares at home. Plus
:: the spares that stay in my seatbag. And I always ride with a patch
:: kit too.

Me too. I guess I like to feel prepared for a nightmare when I'm out in the
middle of nowhere...less hassles....

[victor.kan@gmail.com]

On Jul 30, 8:46 am, "Roger Zoul" <rogerzo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
....
> Also, you might grab the wrong size before some trip, only to find out
> later....

What's to grab? I leave my 571/650c spare tube in the seat bag I use
on the dual-571.

I leave a 622/700c spare tube in the seat wedge or pannier for my DF
road bikes.

I leave a 559/26" spare tube in the "bento box" attached to my 26"
wheeled fixed gear bike (or single speed MTB if I flip the rear wheel
and put knobbies on it :-).

The tool pod that I move bike to bike has a patch kit if I get more
than one flat on a ride.

[DougC]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> ....
> I see. I guess I worry that if you're having a really bad day, and get a
> flat twice on the same wheel....
>
I always carry a patch kit also, and if the weather's nice I tend to try
patching first. The spare tube is only if I'm desperate or in a hurry.

> Also, you might grab the wrong size before some trip, only to find out
> later. That one reason I got a 26/26. Another was the smaller front just
> didnt seem to feel right to me....
>

I had my mistakes surgically removed when I was a small boy, so that's
not a concern for me. Ever since, I've been Godlike and omnipotent.

I suspect that remote steering is the only way to go for best results
(get the correct head tube angle and also no steering tiller). Not a lot
of bikes these days use it though, at least in the US. The Longbikes
Slipstream is one, but it's got underseat steering that I'm not too wild
about.... Well that, and the ~$2700 price tag.
~

[Just A User]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> Just A User wrote:
> :: Roger Zoul wrote:
> ::: Just A User wrote:
> ::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
> :::::: Just A User wrote:
> :::::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
> ::::::::: bentrideronline.com
> :::::::::
> ::::::::: Just A User wrote:
> ::::::::::: Any feed back on either the Bacchetta Giro 20 or the Volae
> ::::::::::: tour? I am thinking about plunking down some cash for a
> ::::::::::: better recumbent. I think I will opt for the carbon seat
> ::::::::::: for the one I end up buying.
> :::::::::
> :::::::::
> :::::::: Yeah I have already posted a message there about these two
> :::::::: bikes. Seems to be limited feedback about them so I thought I
> :::::::: would post here as well.
> ::::::
> :::::: Any reason not to consider some other bike?
> ::::::
> ::::::
> ::::: No not really, just those two are just the two that look best in
> ::::: my eye.
> ::::: I also have the Lighting Phantom, Rans V-Rex and Barcroft Virgina
> ::::: GT on
> ::::: my list. Although I think the Barcroft is a little out of my price
> ::::: bracket.
> :::
> ::: Don't you find having two wheel sizes to be a pain?
> :::
> :::
> :: No not really. I usually always have a set of spares at home. Plus
> :: the spares that stay in my seatbag. And I always ride with a patch
> :: kit too.
>
> Me too. I guess I like to feel prepared for a nightmare when I'm out in the
> middle of nowhere...less hassles....
>
>
Yeah well I haven't had any "out in the middle of nowhere" incidents yet
(knock on wood) but I do believe in being prepared.

[Just A User]

victor.kan@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 30, 8:46 am, "Roger Zoul" <rogerzo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> ...
>> Also, you might grab the wrong size before some trip, only to find out
>> later....
>
> What's to grab? I leave my 571/650c spare tube in the seat bag I use
> on the dual-571.
>
> I leave a 622/700c spare tube in the seat wedge or pannier for my DF
> road bikes.
>
> I leave a 559/26" spare tube in the "bento box" attached to my 26"
> wheeled fixed gear bike (or single speed MTB if I flip the rear wheel
> and put knobbies on it :-).
>
> The tool pod that I move bike to bike has a patch kit if I get more
> than one flat on a ride.
>

Same here, the only thing that changes from one bike to another is the
park multi-tool. Each bike has its own tire patch kit and spare tubes.

[Roger Zoul]

victor.kan@gmail.com wrote:
:: On Jul 30, 8:46 am, "Roger Zoul" <rogerzo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
:: ...
::: Also, you might grab the wrong size before some trip, only to find
::: out later....
::
:: What's to grab? I leave my 571/650c spare tube in the seat bag I use
:: on the dual-571.
::
:: I leave a 622/700c spare tube in the seat wedge or pannier for my DF
:: road bikes.
::
:: I leave a 559/26" spare tube in the "bento box" attached to my 26"
:: wheeled fixed gear bike (or single speed MTB if I flip the rear wheel
:: and put knobbies on it :-).

Those things you just mentioned! What happens when you go to get a
replacement and grab the wrong one and put it in the wrong place!

::
:: The tool pod that I move bike to bike has a patch kit if I get more
:: than one flat on a ride.

I like to have one for each, so there is no moving.

[victor.kan@gmail.com]

On Jul 30, 2:04 pm, "Roger Zoul" <rogerzo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
....
> Those things you just mentioned! What happens when you go to get a
> replacement and grab the wrong one and put it in the wrong place!

Maybe it's because I'm a gear head or something, but it never occurred
to me that I would make such a mistake. If I take the time to bother
putting/carrying a spare tube on my bike, I'll take the half a second
to note whether it's a 650c, 700c or 26" tube, all of which are
clearly written on the box, and my bikes aren't changing wheel sizes
(or changing tire widths sufficient to require different tubes).

I suppose I get flats on the road so infrequently (three in my entire
adult life over I don't know how many thousands of miles) that I can
afford to be deliberate when I do "grab" a replacement tube to put in
a bag that goes with the bike.

[Roger Zoul]

victor.kan@gmail.com wrote:
:: On Jul 30, 2:04 pm, "Roger Zoul" <rogerzo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
:: ...
::: Those things you just mentioned! What happens when you go to get a
::: replacement and grab the wrong one and put it in the wrong place!
::
:: Maybe it's because I'm a gear head or something, but it never
:: occurred to me that I would make such a mistake. If I take the time
:: to bother putting/carrying a spare tube on my bike, I'll take the
:: half a second to note whether it's a 650c, 700c or 26" tube, all of
:: which are clearly written on the box, and my bikes aren't changing
:: wheel sizes (or changing tire widths sufficient to require different
:: tubes).
::
:: I suppose I get flats on the road so infrequently (three in my entire
:: adult life over I don't know how many thousands of miles) that I can
:: afford to be deliberate when I do "grab" a replacement tube to put in
:: a bag that goes with the bike.

Or because you simply haven't had enough flats to need to make replacements
enough to see that you can accidently grab the wrong tube.

[victor.kan@gmail.com]

On Jul 30, 5:26 pm, "Roger Zoul" <rogerzo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Or because you simply haven't had enough flats to need to make replacements
> enough to see that you can accidently grab the wrong tube.

That may well be. But then someone with multiple bikes of the same
rim size could also grab the wrong size from their stash at home.

Let's say you have a 35-622 tires on your rain/commuter bike and
23-622 tires on your sunny day bike. You grab the tube appropriate
for the 35-622 for your spare, which is just as likely as me grabbing
the 571 tube rather than the 559 tube, if not more so. It's a lot
easier to misread 700x23 vs. 700x35 on a tube box than it is 650x23 vs
26x1 1/2"

Are you going to fit that 35mm tube into your 23mm tire without
getting the tube pinched by the bead? Good luck with that. If you're
careful enough not to to that, you're careful enough not to grab the
wrong tube in the first place.

And maybe your 700c rain/commuter bike has Schrader valves and your
fast 700c bike has Presta. Good luck with that too.

[Roger Zoul]

victor.kan@gmail.com wrote:
:: On Jul 30, 5:26 pm, "Roger Zoul" <rogerzo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
::: Or because you simply haven't had enough flats to need to make
::: replacements enough to see that you can accidently grab the wrong
::: tube.
::
:: That may well be. But then someone with multiple bikes of the same
:: rim size could also grab the wrong size from their stash at home.
::
:: Let's say you have a 35-622 tires on your rain/commuter bike and
:: 23-622 tires on your sunny day bike. You grab the tube appropriate
:: for the 35-622 for your spare, which is just as likely as me grabbing
:: the 571 tube rather than the 559 tube, if not more so. It's a lot
:: easier to misread 700x23 vs. 700x35 on a tube box than it is 650x23
:: vs 26x1 1/2"
::
:: Are you going to fit that 35mm tube into your 23mm tire without
:: getting the tube pinched by the bead? Good luck with that. If
:: you're careful enough not to to that, you're careful enough not to
:: grab the wrong tube in the first place.
::
:: And maybe your 700c rain/commuter bike has Schrader valves and your
:: fast 700c bike has Presta. Good luck with that too.

Agreed! (mostly - not so sure about the 4th paragraph). You have to admit,
as the number of wheels go up, so do the headaches associated with managing
flats.

[Roger Zoul]

DougC wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: ....
::: I see. I guess I worry that if you're having a really bad day, and
::: get a flat twice on the same wheel....
:::
:: I always carry a patch kit also, and if the weather's nice I tend to
:: try patching first. The spare tube is only if I'm desperate or in a
:: hurry.
::

Perhaps it's because I don't change that many flats, but patching would be
the last option I'd take...doing that only if I didn't have another tube. I
haven't patched since I was a kid, many years ago when I couldn't afford
tubes since I didn't have income of my own. Can one patch a tude without
actually removing it completely? Where I ride, patching would mean being
out in the grass somewhere on the side of the road, hunting for the
hole...I'd rather spend that time riding....and I'd hope that I could change
a tube quicker than I could patch one.


::: Also, you might grab the wrong size before some trip, only to find
::: out later. That one reason I got a 26/26. Another was the smaller
::: front just didnt seem to feel right to me....
:::
::
:: I had my mistakes surgically removed when I was a small boy, so
:: that's not a concern for me. Ever since, I've been Godlike and
:: omnipotent.

:)

::
:: I suspect that remote steering is the only way to go for best results
:: (get the correct head tube angle and also no steering tiller). Not a
:: lot of bikes these days use it though, at least in the US. The
:: Longbikes Slipstream is one, but it's got underseat steering that
:: I'm not too wild about.... Well that, and the ~$2700 price tag.
::

I don't get this in relation to the rest of your post.

~

[DougC]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> ::
> :: I suspect that remote steering is the only way to go for best results
> :: (get the correct head tube angle and also no steering tiller).....
>
> I don't get this in relation to the rest of your post.
>

You said that "small front wheels didn't feel right to you".
,,,,,
With most recumbents you end up with floppy chopper-style steering
because the front wheel needs to be placed further forwards than where a
~73-degree angle would extend downwards from your hands.
~

[Roger Zoul]

Just A User wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Just A User wrote:
::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::::: bentrideronline.com
::::::
:::::: Just A User wrote:
:::::::: Any feed back on either the Bacchetta Giro 20 or the Volae
:::::::: tour? I am thinking about plunking down some cash for a better
:::::::: recumbent. I think I will opt for the carbon seat for the one I
:::::::: end up buying.
::::::
::::::
::::: Yeah I have already posted a message there about these two bikes.
::::: Seems to be limited feedback about them so I thought I would post
::::: here as well.
:::
::: Any reason not to consider some other bike?
:::
:::
::
:: PING! I test rode two swb bents yesterday. Then the shop also had a
:: customer with a Tour Easy who let me ride that around the parking
:: area. I rode the swb and felt a bit uneasy about the way my legs
:: were over the front wheel. Then I rode the T.E. and felt so at home
:: in that cockpit, I guess I am just a LWB rider. So the swb might be
:: a bad choice. Might have to go with another lwb, but way better than
:: the EZ-1 I have now. Thinking maybe a regular Stratus or the Stratus
:: XP.

I have the XP. I preferred the feel of it to that of the Stratus. Now, my
main reason for getting a bent is to ride centuries - and the XP seems to be
great for that purpose. At speed, it flies down the road with great
stability and comfort. I rode 3 centuries back when it was cooler without
any training (as on my DF - I have to let the hands, butt get tough). I
think the front 26 has something to do with its ride

The downside of the XP for me is starting on a hill. That can be a bit
tricky. I think the front 26 is the reason, by and large. Keep in mind that
I've been riding 'bent for less than a year, still. Another issue is
crawling slowly up a hill. There can lots of flop in the steering on a 4mph
hill. I have found that riding it has improved my balance greatly (I didn't
previously think I had a problem w/ balance!). Now, while I'm riding my DF
almost exclusively in the early am before work, I can ride with no hands -
as I did back when I was twelve.

Warning: the XP is a big bike! I have an XL and probably could have done
with an XXL. It's long. Remember I told you that. That said, I've had it in
hotel rooms. I had to have a hitch mount added to my car and got a two bike
rack for it. The rack itself has to be modded so I could get the XP on it
even without the front wheel. I have a friend with a TE and he has a special
built rack, but I don't recall him telling me why he got it.

TE owners rave about their machines. They seem to be a very passionate
group.

Regarding 'bents in general: Ride, ride, ride, before you buy. I spent
probably 3 hours riding various ones before I got my XP. Just because it
doesn't feel right the first time, try it again on a different day, and ride
the bikes in a different order. If you ride a SWB after riding a LWB, you
might come away with a different impression than if you ride the SWB first.

If/when I get a third bike (no, I'm never giving up my DF - I still enjoy
riding it very much), it might be a dual (26/26, or whatever) highracer! Or
a trike! :)

I urge you to try again on 'bentrideronline. You might have just posted at a
time when the ride folks were engaged elsewhere. I hear them talking about
Giros all the time over there. I'm still a 'bent noob so I think you'll get
the a greater range of advice over there (DougC posts over there too, I
think).

[DougC]

Just A User wrote:
> PING! I test rode two swb bents yesterday. Then the shop also had a
> customer with a Tour Easy who let me ride that around the parking area.
> I rode the swb and felt a bit uneasy about the way my legs were over the
> front wheel. Then I rode the T.E. and felt so at home in that cockpit, I
> guess I am just a LWB rider. So the swb might be a bad choice. Might
> have to go with another lwb, but way better than the EZ-1 I have now.
> Thinking maybe a regular Stratus or the Stratus XP.

My first bent was a SWB, but I found I didn't like the jittery handling.
I also got numb feet on it, but that may have had to do with the
particular seat base used. On this bike the BB was not especially high,
only about level with the seat base.

After a couple years of trying to live with the SWB, I test-rode and
bought a LWB after that, a Cycle Genius Falcon. I had to change the stem
and handlebars out but overall it's much more comfortable than the SWB
was. No numb feet at all, and the handling is steadier too. It is more
hassle to transport being rather long overall, but the riding is simply
wonderful.
~

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

Just A User who? wrote:
> Roger Zoul wrote:
>> Just A User wrote:
>> :: Roger Zoul wrote:
>> ::: bentrideronline.com
>> :::
>> ::: Just A User wrote:
>> ::::: Any feed back on either the Bacchetta Giro 20 or the Volae tour?
>> ::::: I am thinking about plunking down some cash for a better
>> ::::: recumbent. I think I will opt for the carbon seat for the one I
>> ::::: end up buying.
>> :::
>> :::
>> :: Yeah I have already posted a message there about these two bikes.
>> :: Seems to be limited feedback about them so I thought I would post
>> :: here as well.
>>
>> Any reason not to consider some other bike?
>>
>
> PING! I test rode two swb bents yesterday. Then the shop also had a
> customer with a Tour Easy who let me ride that around the parking area.
> I rode the swb and felt a bit uneasy about the way my legs were over the
> front wheel. Then I rode the T.E. and felt so at home in that cockpit, I
> guess I am just a LWB rider. So the swb might be a bad choice. Might
> have to go with another lwb, but way better than the EZ-1 I have now.
> Thinking maybe a regular Stratus or the Stratus XP.

Don't give up on the SWB bikes. They take more acclimation for someone
coming from uprights, but they might end up being your preference in the
long run. Of course, the optimum is having both SWB and LWB bikes, and a
trike. :)

As far as the Stratus versus Tour Easy, all other factors are close
enough that you should just buy the one you like better.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Just A User]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> Just A User wrote:
> :: Roger Zoul wrote:
> ::: Just A User wrote:
> ::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
> :::::: bentrideronline.com
> ::::::
> :::::: Just A User wrote:
> :::::::: Any feed back on either the Bacchetta Giro 20 or the Volae
> :::::::: tour? I am thinking about plunking down some cash for a better
> :::::::: recumbent. I think I will opt for the carbon seat for the one I
> :::::::: end up buying.
> ::::::
> ::::::
> ::::: Yeah I have already posted a message there about these two bikes.
> ::::: Seems to be limited feedback about them so I thought I would post
> ::::: here as well.
> :::
> ::: Any reason not to consider some other bike?
> :::
> :::
> ::
> :: PING! I test rode two swb bents yesterday. Then the shop also had a
> :: customer with a Tour Easy who let me ride that around the parking
> :: area. I rode the swb and felt a bit uneasy about the way my legs
> :: were over the front wheel. Then I rode the T.E. and felt so at home
> :: in that cockpit, I guess I am just a LWB rider. So the swb might be
> :: a bad choice. Might have to go with another lwb, but way better than
> :: the EZ-1 I have now. Thinking maybe a regular Stratus or the Stratus
> :: XP.
>
> I have the XP. I preferred the feel of it to that of the Stratus. Now, my
> main reason for getting a bent is to ride centuries - and the XP seems to be
> great for that purpose. At speed, it flies down the road with great
> stability and comfort. I rode 3 centuries back when it was cooler without
> any training (as on my DF - I have to let the hands, butt get tough). I
> think the front 26 has something to do with its ride
>
Yeah I remember you posting about the XP, that's why I brought it up. I
have heard it was fast. I have done centuries on my DFs' But not on a bent.

> The downside of the XP for me is starting on a hill. That can be a bit
> tricky. I think the front 26 is the reason, by and large. Keep in mind that
> I've been riding 'bent for less than a year, still. Another issue is
> crawling slowly up a hill. There can lots of flop in the steering on a 4mph
> hill. I have found that riding it has improved my balance greatly (I didn't
> previously think I had a problem w/ balance!). Now, while I'm riding my DF
> almost exclusively in the early am before work, I can ride with no hands -
> as I did back when I was twelve.
>
Balance, yeah it's very different on a bent than a df. Yes starting on a
hill can be difficult, especially with clipless pedals.

> Warning: the XP is a big bike! I have an XL and probably could have done
> with an XXL. It's long. Remember I told you that. That said, I've had it in
> hotel rooms. I had to have a hitch mount added to my car and got a two bike
> rack for it. The rack itself has to be modded so I could get the XP on it
> even without the front wheel. I have a friend with a TE and he has a special
> built rack, but I don't recall him telling me why he got it.
>
They call them "Monster" bents for a reason. They just /look/ huge.

> TE owners rave about their machines. They seem to be a very passionate
> group.
>
I have noticed that as well. I surfed over to the Easy Racer site and
checked out their bikes. They all seem very similar except for the
newest one, the Javelin. I guess when you have a winner their is no
reason to mess with it. I like Easy Racers because they are made in
California.

> Regarding 'bents in general: Ride, ride, ride, before you buy. I spent
> probably 3 hours riding various ones before I got my XP. Just because it
> doesn't feel right the first time, try it again on a different day, and ride
> the bikes in a different order. If you ride a SWB after riding a LWB, you
> might come away with a different impression than if you ride the SWB first.
>
Well I rode a bunch before I bought my EZ-1. SWB and LWB. Even then I
felt a little funny about the swb models. Then yesterday I rode the Giro
20 and the P-38 and then the T.E.

> If/when I get a third bike (no, I'm never giving up my DF - I still enjoy
> riding it very much), it might be a dual (26/26, or whatever) highracer! Or
> a trike! :)
>
I think my preference on lwb vs swb is because of my height. I am on the
smaller than average side (5 foot 6 inches) And from all my reading it
seems that many smaller riders prefer lwb bikes. And not too many high
racers are built for small riders. Trikes seem cool, but I am not ready
to go three wheeled yet.

> I urge you to try again on 'bentrideronline. You might have just posted at a
> time when the ride folks were engaged elsewhere. I hear them talking about
> Giros all the time over there. I'm still a 'bent noob so I think you'll get
> the a greater range of advice over there (DougC posts over there too, I
> think).
>
>
I am on betrideronline too (user name: kencmjr) Yeah I have found
several thread over there about the Giro 20. And lots on the T.E. and
Rans bikes.

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> ...
> I urge you to try again on 'bentrideronline. You might have just posted at a
> time when the ride folks were engaged elsewhere. I hear them talking about
> Giros all the time over there. I'm still a 'bent noob so I think you'll get
> the a greater range of advice over there (DougC posts over there too, I
> think)....

Too many butt kissers and censorship for my taste.

POST FREE OR DIE!

--
Tom "Free Range" Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Roger Zoul]

Just A User wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Just A User wrote:
::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::::: Just A User wrote:
:::::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
::::::::: bentrideronline.com
:::::::::
::::::::: Just A User wrote:
::::::::::: Any feed back on either the Bacchetta Giro 20 or the Volae
::::::::::: tour? I am thinking about plunking down some cash for a
::::::::::: better recumbent. I think I will opt for the carbon seat
::::::::::: for the one I end up buying.
:::::::::
:::::::::
:::::::: Yeah I have already posted a message there about these two
:::::::: bikes. Seems to be limited feedback about them so I thought I
:::::::: would post here as well.
::::::
:::::: Any reason not to consider some other bike?
::::::
::::::
:::::
::::: PING! I test rode two swb bents yesterday. Then the shop also had
::::: a customer with a Tour Easy who let me ride that around the
::::: parking area. I rode the swb and felt a bit uneasy about the way
::::: my legs were over the front wheel. Then I rode the T.E. and felt
::::: so at home in that cockpit, I guess I am just a LWB rider. So the
::::: swb might be a bad choice. Might have to go with another lwb, but
::::: way better than the EZ-1 I have now. Thinking maybe a regular
::::: Stratus or the Stratus XP.
:::
::: I have the XP. I preferred the feel of it to that of the Stratus.
::: Now, my main reason for getting a bent is to ride centuries - and
::: the XP seems to be great for that purpose. At speed, it flies down
::: the road with great stability and comfort. I rode 3 centuries back
::: when it was cooler without any training (as on my DF - I have to
::: let the hands, butt get tough). I think the front 26 has something
::: to do with its ride
:::
:: Yeah I remember you posting about the XP, that's why I brought it
:: up. I have heard it was fast. I have done centuries on my DFs' But
:: not on a bent.

It would seem that riding the XP uses leg muscles slightly differently than
riding my DF. On my 'bent, after a long ride with not much training, my
"tear drop" muscles would get sore...and might even cramp up. On my DF, the
outer part of my quads get sore, not so the "tear drop" parts. Must be
something about the relative positions on the two bikes.

::
::: The downside of the XP for me is starting on a hill. That can be a
::: bit tricky. I think the front 26 is the reason, by and large. Keep
::: in mind that I've been riding 'bent for less than a year, still.
::: Another issue is crawling slowly up a hill. There can lots of flop
::: in the steering on a 4mph hill. I have found that riding it has
::: improved my balance greatly (I didn't previously think I had a
::: problem w/ balance!). Now, while I'm riding my DF almost
::: exclusively in the early am before work, I can ride with no hands -
::: as I did back when I was twelve.
:::
:: Balance, yeah it's very different on a bent than a df. Yes starting
:: on a hill can be difficult, especially with clipless pedals.

I ride my bent with platforms. I ride my DF with clipless pedals (SDPs).
Others claim that clipless makes starting on a hill easier, but I find it
very hard to believe.

::
::: Warning: the XP is a big bike! I have an XL and probably could
::: have done with an XXL. It's long. Remember I told you that. That
::: said, I've had it in hotel rooms. I had to have a hitch mount added
::: to my car and got a two bike rack for it. The rack itself has to
::: be modded so I could get the XP on it even without the front wheel.
::: I have a friend with a TE and he has a special built rack, but I
::: don't recall him telling me why he got it.
:::
:: They call them "Monster" bents for a reason. They just /look/ huge.
::

Yeah, mine is a "monster" for sure! I think it weighs close to 35 lbs
unloaded.

::: TE owners rave about their machines. They seem to be a very
::: passionate group.
:::
:: I have noticed that as well. I surfed over to the Easy Racer site and
:: checked out their bikes. They all seem very similar except for the
:: newest one, the Javelin. I guess when you have a winner their is no
:: reason to mess with it. I like Easy Racers because they are made in
:: California.

RANS are USA-made too. Is it Kansas?

::
::: Regarding 'bents in general: Ride, ride, ride, before you buy. I
::: spent probably 3 hours riding various ones before I got my XP.
::: Just because it doesn't feel right the first time, try it again on
::: a different day, and ride the bikes in a different order. If you
::: ride a SWB after riding a LWB, you might come away with a different
::: impression than if you ride the SWB first.
:::
:: Well I rode a bunch before I bought my EZ-1. SWB and LWB. Even then I
:: felt a little funny about the swb models. Then yesterday I rode the
:: Giro 20 and the P-38 and then the T.E.

As long as you feel confident about which you prefer...

::
::: If/when I get a third bike (no, I'm never giving up my DF - I still
::: enjoy riding it very much), it might be a dual (26/26, or whatever)
::: highracer! Or a trike! :)
:::
:: I think my preference on lwb vs swb is because of my height. I am on
:: the smaller than average side (5 foot 6 inches) And from all my
:: reading it seems that many smaller riders prefer lwb bikes. And not
:: too many high racers are built for small riders.

Yeah, I know one lady who had her dual 26 converted into a dual 24. I think
it was a Giro 26/26.

:: Trikes seem cool,
:: but I am not ready
:: to go three wheeled yet.
::

Same there. I need to get a lot more miles on my current two bikes before I
go buying another one! :)

::: I urge you to try again on 'bentrideronline. You might have just
::: posted at a time when the ride folks were engaged elsewhere. I hear
::: them talking about Giros all the time over there. I'm still a
::: 'bent noob so I think you'll get the a greater range of advice over
::: there (DougC posts over there too, I think).
:::
:::
:: I am on betrideronline too (user name: kencmjr) Yeah I have found
:: several thread over there about the Giro 20. And lots on the T.E. and
:: Rans bikes.

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

Just A User ? wrote:
> ...
> I think my preference on lwb vs swb is because of my height. I am on the
> smaller than average side (5 foot 6 inches) And from all my reading it
> seems that many smaller riders prefer lwb bikes. And not too many high
> racers are built for small riders....

Building a highracer for short riders is practically impossible, unless
ISO 520-mm wheels are used, which severely limits tire choices. Shorter
riders typically need SWB bicycles with wheels in the ISO 349-369 mm
range, which has its own drawbacks for tire selection and rough road
use. Conversely, LWB bicycles for tall riders are either really long or
have too much weight on the rear wheel.

> ...And lots on the T.E. and Rans [SIC] bikes.

NO NO NO!!!

RANS is ALWAYS in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS!

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Just A User]

DougC wrote:
> Just A User wrote:
>> PING! I test rode two swb bents yesterday. Then the shop also had a
>> customer with a Tour Easy who let me ride that around the parking
>> area. I rode the swb and felt a bit uneasy about the way my legs were
>> over the front wheel. Then I rode the T.E. and felt so at home in that
>> cockpit, I guess I am just a LWB rider. So the swb might be a bad
>> choice. Might have to go with another lwb, but way better than the
>> EZ-1 I have now. Thinking maybe a regular Stratus or the Stratus XP.
>
> My first bent was a SWB, but I found I didn't like the jittery handling.
> I also got numb feet on it, but that may have had to do with the
> particular seat base used. On this bike the BB was not especially high,
> only about level with the seat base.
>
> After a couple years of trying to live with the SWB, I test-rode and
> bought a LWB after that, a Cycle Genius Falcon. I had to change the stem
> and handlebars out but overall it's much more comfortable than the SWB
> was. No numb feet at all, and the handling is steadier too. It is more
> hassle to transport being rather long overall, but the riding is simply
> wonderful.
> ~
Well my very first bent, was a bad attempt at a home built swb. I didn't
under stand about head tube geometry so I made it way to steep which
made it really jittery. But even on production bikes the handling is
jittery compared to the LWB bikes. Yeah transporting a long bike is more
difficult. But I don't do it too often so not really much of an issue.

[victor.kan@gmail.com]

On Aug 1, 6:10 pm, "Roger Zoul" <rogerzo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Just A User wrote:
>> I like Easy Racers because they are made in California.

> RANS are USA-made too. Is it Kansas?

It depends on the model and the vintage.

RANS has shifted production between Kansas and Taiwan for years,
interestingly in both directions if I recall correctly.

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> ...
> RANS are USA-made too. Is it Kansas?

RANS is located in Hays (not Hayes) Kansas.

My two RANS bikes were made in Taiwan. However, it appears that after
moving almost all bicycle production to Taiwan in the late 1990's, the
process has been reversed.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Just A User]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> Just A User wrote:
> :: Roger Zoul wrote:
> ::: Just A User wrote:
> ::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
> :::::: Just A User wrote:
> :::::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
> ::::::::: bentrideronline.com
> :::::::::
> ::::::::: Just A User wrote:
> ::::::::::: Any feed back on either the Bacchetta Giro 20 or the Volae
> ::::::::::: tour? I am thinking about plunking down some cash for a
> ::::::::::: better recumbent. I think I will opt for the carbon seat
> ::::::::::: for the one I end up buying.
> :::::::::
> :::::::::
> :::::::: Yeah I have already posted a message there about these two
> :::::::: bikes. Seems to be limited feedback about them so I thought I
> :::::::: would post here as well.
> ::::::
> :::::: Any reason not to consider some other bike?
> ::::::
> ::::::
> :::::
> ::::: PING! I test rode two swb bents yesterday. Then the shop also had
> ::::: a customer with a Tour Easy who let me ride that around the
> ::::: parking area. I rode the swb and felt a bit uneasy about the way
> ::::: my legs were over the front wheel. Then I rode the T.E. and felt
> ::::: so at home in that cockpit, I guess I am just a LWB rider. So the
> ::::: swb might be a bad choice. Might have to go with another lwb, but
> ::::: way better than the EZ-1 I have now. Thinking maybe a regular
> ::::: Stratus or the Stratus XP.
> :::
> ::: I have the XP. I preferred the feel of it to that of the Stratus.
> ::: Now, my main reason for getting a bent is to ride centuries - and
> ::: the XP seems to be great for that purpose. At speed, it flies down
> ::: the road with great stability and comfort. I rode 3 centuries back
> ::: when it was cooler without any training (as on my DF - I have to
> ::: let the hands, butt get tough). I think the front 26 has something
> ::: to do with its ride
> :::
> :: Yeah I remember you posting about the XP, that's why I brought it
> :: up. I have heard it was fast. I have done centuries on my DFs' But
> :: not on a bent.
>
> It would seem that riding the XP uses leg muscles slightly differently than
> riding my DF. On my 'bent, after a long ride with not much training, my
> "tear drop" muscles would get sore...and might even cramp up. On my DF, the
> outer part of my quads get sore, not so the "tear drop" parts. Must be
> something about the relative positions on the two bikes.
>
> ::
> ::: The downside of the XP for me is starting on a hill. That can be a
> ::: bit tricky. I think the front 26 is the reason, by and large. Keep
> ::: in mind that I've been riding 'bent for less than a year, still.
> ::: Another issue is crawling slowly up a hill. There can lots of flop
> ::: in the steering on a 4mph hill. I have found that riding it has
> ::: improved my balance greatly (I didn't previously think I had a
> ::: problem w/ balance!). Now, while I'm riding my DF almost
> ::: exclusively in the early am before work, I can ride with no hands -
> ::: as I did back when I was twelve.
> :::
> :: Balance, yeah it's very different on a bent than a df. Yes starting
> :: on a hill can be difficult, especially with clipless pedals.
>
> I ride my bent with platforms. I ride my DF with clipless pedals (SDPs).
> Others claim that clipless makes starting on a hill easier, but I find it
> very hard to believe.
>
I have tried every type of pedal I have on the bent, platforms, toe clip
s and straps, looks, and crank brothers. I find platforms to be okay,
but I like the feel of my crank brothers best, but not really sure about
starting on a hill in them, that might prove to be difficult. But not
many hills in south FL anyway.

> ::
> ::: Warning: the XP is a big bike! I have an XL and probably could
> ::: have done with an XXL. It's long. Remember I told you that. That
> ::: said, I've had it in hotel rooms. I had to have a hitch mount added
> ::: to my car and got a two bike rack for it. The rack itself has to
> ::: be modded so I could get the XP on it even without the front wheel.
> ::: I have a friend with a TE and he has a special built rack, but I
> ::: don't recall him telling me why he got it.
> :::
> :: They call them "Monster" bents for a reason. They just /look/ huge.
> ::
>
> Yeah, mine is a "monster" for sure! I think it weighs close to 35 lbs
> unloaded.
Hey that is a lightweight compared to the 40 lbs for the EZ-1

>
> ::: TE owners rave about their machines. They seem to be a very
> ::: passionate group.
> :::
> :: I have noticed that as well. I surfed over to the Easy Racer site and
> :: checked out their bikes. They all seem very similar except for the
> :: newest one, the Javelin. I guess when you have a winner their is no
> :: reason to mess with it. I like Easy Racers because they are made in
> :: California.
>
> RANS are USA-made too. Is it Kansas?
>
Seems like some of them must be made in Asia for what RANS is charging
for them. But some of them must still be made in KS.

> ::
> ::: Regarding 'bents in general: Ride, ride, ride, before you buy. I
> ::: spent probably 3 hours riding various ones before I got my XP.
> ::: Just because it doesn't feel right the first time, try it again on
> ::: a different day, and ride the bikes in a different order. If you
> ::: ride a SWB after riding a LWB, you might come away with a different
> ::: impression than if you ride the SWB first.
> :::
> :: Well I rode a bunch before I bought my EZ-1. SWB and LWB. Even then I
> :: felt a little funny about the swb models. Then yesterday I rode the
> :: Giro 20 and the P-38 and then the T.E.
>
> As long as you feel confident about which you prefer...
>
Well I am going this morning to another bent dealer, a RANS shop. Going
to try the V-Rex again and the lwb products.

> ::
> ::: If/when I get a third bike (no, I'm never giving up my DF - I still
> ::: enjoy riding it very much), it might be a dual (26/26, or whatever)
> ::: highracer! Or a trike! :)
> :::
> :: I think my preference on lwb vs swb is because of my height. I am on
> :: the smaller than average side (5 foot 6 inches) And from all my
> :: reading it seems that many smaller riders prefer lwb bikes. And not
> :: too many high racers are built for small riders.
>
> Yeah, I know one lady who had her dual 26 converted into a dual 24. I think
> it was a Giro 26/26.
>
Interesting. I remember reading something somewhere about a 24/24 bike


> :: Trikes seem cool,
> :: but I am not ready
> :: to go three wheeled yet.
> ::
>
> Same there. I need to get a lot more miles on my current two bikes before I
> go buying another one! :)
>
Well trike owners seem to be considerably more aged than myself.

> ::: I urge you to try again on 'bentrideronline. You might have just
> ::: posted at a time when the ride folks were engaged elsewhere. I hear
> ::: them talking about Giros all the time over there. I'm still a
> ::: 'bent noob so I think you'll get the a greater range of advice over
> ::: there (DougC posts over there too, I think).
> :::
> :::
> :: I am on betrideronline too (user name: kencmjr) Yeah I have found
> :: several thread over there about the Giro 20. And lots on the T.E. and
> :: Rans bikes.
>
>

[Roger Zoul]

victor.kan@gmail.com wrote:
:: On Aug 1, 6:10 pm, "Roger Zoul" <rogerzo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
::: Just A User wrote:
:::: I like Easy Racers because they are made in California.
::
::: RANS are USA-made too. Is it Kansas?
::
:: It depends on the model and the vintage.
::
:: RANS has shifted production between Kansas and Taiwan for years,
:: interestingly in both directions if I recall correctly.

Thanks for the info. I've seen pics of their plant in Kansas and just
assumed they did all of their stuff there.

[Just A User]

Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
> Roger Zoul wrote:
>> ...
>> I urge you to try again on 'bentrideronline. You might have just
>> posted at a time when the ride folks were engaged elsewhere. I hear
>> them talking about Giros all the time over there. I'm still a 'bent
>> noob so I think you'll get the a greater range of advice over there
>> (DougC posts over there too, I think)....
>
> Too many butt kissers and censorship for my taste.
>
> POST FREE OR DIE!
>
Yes there is censorship there, but A.R.B.R. suffers too much.

[Just A User]

Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
> Just A User who? wrote:
>> Roger Zoul wrote:
>>> Just A User wrote:
>>> :: Roger Zoul wrote:
>>> ::: bentrideronline.com
>>> :::
>>> ::: Just A User wrote:
>>> ::::: Any feed back on either the Bacchetta Giro 20 or the Volae tour?
>>> ::::: I am thinking about plunking down some cash for a better
>>> ::::: recumbent. I think I will opt for the carbon seat for the one I
>>> ::::: end up buying.
>>> :::
>>> :::
>>> :: Yeah I have already posted a message there about these two bikes.
>>> :: Seems to be limited feedback about them so I thought I would post
>>> :: here as well.
>>>
>>> Any reason not to consider some other bike?
>>>
>>
>> PING! I test rode two swb bents yesterday. Then the shop also had a
>> customer with a Tour Easy who let me ride that around the parking
>> area. I rode the swb and felt a bit uneasy about the way my legs were
>> over the front wheel. Then I rode the T.E. and felt so at home in that
>> cockpit, I guess I am just a LWB rider. So the swb might be a bad
>> choice. Might have to go with another lwb, but way better than the
>> EZ-1 I have now. Thinking maybe a regular Stratus or the Stratus XP.
>
> Don't give up on the SWB bikes. They take more acclimation for someone
> coming from uprights, but they might end up being your preference in the
> long run. Of course, the optimum is having both SWB and LWB bikes, and a
> trike. :)
>
> As far as the Stratus versus Tour Easy, all other factors are close
> enough that you should just buy the one you like better.
>

No I am not giving up on swb bikes, I can see that they do have
advantages. I guess it might just be something that you have to get used
to. Going today to re-ride the V-Rex.

[Roger Zoul]

Just A User wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: I ride my bent with platforms. I ride my DF with clipless pedals
::: (SDPs). Others claim that clipless makes starting on a hill easier,
::: but I find it very hard to believe.
:::
:: I have tried every type of pedal I have on the bent, platforms, toe
:: clip s and straps, looks, and crank brothers. I find platforms to be
:: okay, but I like the feel of my crank brothers best, but not really
:: sure about starting on a hill in them, that might prove to be
:: difficult. But not many hills in south FL anyway.

I've only tried SPDs and platforms. I guess I'm too cheap to try out all
the pedals, especially when the take different shoes (I guess some shoes
work with multiple pedal systems). The Crank Brothers, I admit, are one
system that I've been considering for a while now.

If things work out, I'm going to try to do the Ride Across FL next year.

:::
::: RANS are USA-made too. Is it Kansas?
:::
:: Seems like some of them must be made in Asia for what RANS is
:: charging for them. But some of them must still be made in KS.
::

Yes, they do seem expensive, but then so do most of the recumbents. Small
market compared to DF. My XP seems to be very well made, though.

::::::
::::: Well I rode a bunch before I bought my EZ-1. SWB and LWB. Even
::::: then I felt a little funny about the swb models. Then yesterday I
::::: rode the Giro 20 and the P-38 and then the T.E.
:::
::: As long as you feel confident about which you prefer...
:::
:: Well I am going this morning to another bent dealer, a RANS shop.
:: Going to try the V-Rex again and the lwb products.

I've love to hear your report. I don't know why, but I always enjoy it when
someone else gets a new bike. Next best thing to getting a new one myself,
I guess.

::::: I think my preference on lwb vs swb is because of my height. I am
::::: on the smaller than average side (5 foot 6 inches) And from all my
::::: reading it seems that many smaller riders prefer lwb bikes. And
::::: not too many high racers are built for small riders.
:::
::: Yeah, I know one lady who had her dual 26 converted into a dual 24.
::: I think it was a Giro 26/26.
:::
:: Interesting. I remember reading something somewhere about a 24/24
:: bike

It seemed to work really well for this lady. I saw lots of other highracers
that day, too. They are really zippy bikes too. I was amazed at how fast
some of them flew by me.


::
::
::::: Trikes seem cool,
::::: but I am not ready
::::: to go three wheeled yet.
:::::
:::
::: Same there. I need to get a lot more miles on my current two bikes
::: before I go buying another one! :)
:::
:: Well trike owners seem to be considerably more aged than myself.
::

My 'bent buddy Howard is about 65. He has a nice trike that he rode on a
century with me. He also has a high racer and he is much faster on that
than he is on the trike. I can't keep up with him on the high racer. He
does about 8000 miles a year. I only do about 2500 to 3000.

It does seem to be true that a lot of trike owners have aerobellies and
white breads. Curious thing. I even have pics which seem to provide
evidence that this is so.

[Roger Zoul]

Just A User wrote:
:: Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
::: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::: ...
:::: I urge you to try again on 'bentrideronline. You might have just
:::: posted at a time when the ride folks were engaged elsewhere. I hear
:::: them talking about Giros all the time over there. I'm still a
:::: 'bent noob so I think you'll get the a greater range of advice
:::: over there (DougC posts over there too, I think)....
:::
::: Too many butt kissers and censorship for my taste.
:::
::: POST FREE OR DIE!
:::
:: Yes there is censorship there, but A.R.B.R. suffers too much.

I don't think there is any censorship of significant, meaningful ON
TOPICcontent.

[Roger Zoul]

:: Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
::: Don't give up on the SWB bikes. They take more acclimation for
::: someone coming from uprights, but they might end up being your
::: preference in the long run. Of course, the optimum is having both
::: SWB and LWB bikes, and a trike. :)

I hope to get to that optimum, but it will also include a DF upright.

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

Just A User wrote:
> Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
>> Just A User who? wrote:
>>> Roger Zoul wrote:
>>>> Just A User wrote:
>>>> :: Roger Zoul wrote:
>>>> ::: bentrideronline.com
>>>> :::
>>>> ::: Just A User wrote:
>>>> ::::: Any feed back on either the Bacchetta Giro 20 or the Volae tour?
>>>> ::::: I am thinking about plunking down some cash for a better
>>>> ::::: recumbent. I think I will opt for the carbon seat for the one I
>>>> ::::: end up buying.
>>>> :::
>>>> :::
>>>> :: Yeah I have already posted a message there about these two bikes.
>>>> :: Seems to be limited feedback about them so I thought I would post
>>>> :: here as well.
>>>>
>>>> Any reason not to consider some other bike?
>>>>
>>>
>>> PING! I test rode two swb bents yesterday. Then the shop also had a
>>> customer with a Tour Easy who let me ride that around the parking
>>> area. I rode the swb and felt a bit uneasy about the way my legs were
>>> over the front wheel. Then I rode the T.E. and felt so at home in
>>> that cockpit, I guess I am just a LWB rider. So the swb might be a
>>> bad choice. Might have to go with another lwb, but way better than
>>> the EZ-1 I have now. Thinking maybe a regular Stratus or the Stratus XP.
>>
>> Don't give up on the SWB bikes. They take more acclimation for someone
>> coming from uprights, but they might end up being your preference in
>> the long run. Of course, the optimum is having both SWB and LWB bikes,
>> and a trike. :)
>>
>> As far as the Stratus versus Tour Easy, all other factors are close
>> enough that you should just buy the one you like better.
>>
>
> No I am not giving up on swb bikes, I can see that they do have
> advantages. I guess it might just be something that you have to get used
> to. Going today to re-ride the V-Rex.

The V-Rex (both now and in the 2000 model year) has considerably better
components than the RANS Rocket, and a price that has been about half
again as much as the Rocket since the Rocket's introduction. In April
2000, I went to a recumbent dealer expecting to come home with a V-Rex.
However, after several hours of test riding, I came home with a RANS
Rocket, which I liked a lot more for its handling quality.

DO NOT dismiss the RANS Rocket simply because it has a small drive
wheel. The Rocket is one of the best values, and is the most fun bike to
ride this side of the Earth Cycles Sunset Lowracer [1].

[1] Only 20 Sunsets were made, and NEITHER of mine is for sale.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> Just A User wrote:
> :: Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
> ::: Roger Zoul wrote:
> :::: ...
> :::: I urge you to try again on 'bentrideronline. You might have just
> :::: posted at a time when the ride folks were engaged elsewhere. I hear
> :::: them talking about Giros all the time over there. I'm still a
> :::: 'bent noob so I think you'll get the a greater range of advice
> :::: over there (DougC posts over there too, I think)....
> :::
> ::: Too many butt kissers and censorship for my taste.
> :::
> ::: POST FREE OR DIE!
> :::
> :: Yes there is censorship there, but A.R.B.R. suffers too much.
>
> I don't think there is any censorship of significant, meaningful ON
> TOPICcontent.

Yeah, because the regulars have been indoctrinated not to write anything
controversial?

Anyone who tells me in a patronizing way to "tone it down" can kiss my
above seat steering.

A flame war is healthy exercise for the mind.

--
Tom "Free Range" Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> :: Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
> ::: Don't give up on the SWB bikes. They take more acclimation for
> ::: someone coming from uprights, but they might end up being your
> ::: preference in the long run. Of course, the optimum is having both
> ::: SWB and LWB bikes, and a trike. :)
>
> I hope to get to that optimum, but it will also include a DF upright.

The diamond frame (DF) upright has the great advantage of relative
anonymity.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Bill Sornson]

Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:

> Anyone who tells me in a patronizing way to "tone it down" can kiss my
> above seat steering.
>
> A flame war is healthy exercise for the mind.

....and the horse you rode in on!

[Just A User]

Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
> Just A User wrote:
>> Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
>>> Just A User who? wrote:
>>>> Roger Zoul wrote:
>>>>> Just A User wrote:
>>>>> :: Roger Zoul wrote:
>>>>> ::: bentrideronline.com
>>>>> :::
>>>>> ::: Just A User wrote:
>>>>> ::::: Any feed back on either the Bacchetta Giro 20 or the Volae tour?
>>>>> ::::: I am thinking about plunking down some cash for a better
>>>>> ::::: recumbent. I think I will opt for the carbon seat for the one I
>>>>> ::::: end up buying.
>>>>> :::
>>>>> :::
>>>>> :: Yeah I have already posted a message there about these two bikes.
>>>>> :: Seems to be limited feedback about them so I thought I would post
>>>>> :: here as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any reason not to consider some other bike?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> PING! I test rode two swb bents yesterday. Then the shop also had a
>>>> customer with a Tour Easy who let me ride that around the parking
>>>> area. I rode the swb and felt a bit uneasy about the way my legs
>>>> were over the front wheel. Then I rode the T.E. and felt so at home
>>>> in that cockpit, I guess I am just a LWB rider. So the swb might be
>>>> a bad choice. Might have to go with another lwb, but way better than
>>>> the EZ-1 I have now. Thinking maybe a regular Stratus or the Stratus
>>>> XP.
>>>
>>> Don't give up on the SWB bikes. They take more acclimation for
>>> someone coming from uprights, but they might end up being your
>>> preference in the long run. Of course, the optimum is having both SWB
>>> and LWB bikes, and a trike. :)
>>>
>>> As far as the Stratus versus Tour Easy, all other factors are close
>>> enough that you should just buy the one you like better.
>>>
>>
>> No I am not giving up on swb bikes, I can see that they do have
>> advantages. I guess it might just be something that you have to get
>> used to. Going today to re-ride the V-Rex.
>
> The V-Rex (both now and in the 2000 model year) has considerably better
> components than the RANS Rocket, and a price that has been about half
> again as much as the Rocket since the Rocket's introduction. In April
> 2000, I went to a recumbent dealer expecting to come home with a V-Rex.
> However, after several hours of test riding, I came home with a RANS
> Rocket, which I liked a lot more for its handling quality.
>
> DO NOT dismiss the RANS Rocket simply because it has a small drive
> wheel. The Rocket is one of the best values, and is the most fun bike to
> ride this side of the Earth Cycles Sunset Lowracer [1].
>
> [1] Only 20 Sunsets were made, and NEITHER of mine is for sale.
>

Well thanks for all the good advise everyone, I found my new love! I
bought a left over 2006 RANS V2 with the rotor cranks upgrade. I went
yesterday to ride the V-Rex, didn't like it much again. Rode the
standard Stratus and the XP, and the V2 Formula 26 and last but not
least the standard V2. It was love at first ride. The guy at the shop
was a little suprised by the way I just got right on them and started
zipping around the parking lot, even though I told him I already had a
bent. He said most people get on them and are a little skittish.

But anyway yeah the V2 just /felt/ right. It was a pretty nimble feeling
bike, felt pretty lively as far as acceleration goes. And the RANS seat
felt really comfortable, but still stiff enough good leverage. The
ticket price was about $2100 but I got it for just a tick over $1600
including tax. I thought it was a pretty good deal.

I pick it up next week.

[Roger Zoul]

Just A User wrote:
:: Well thanks for all the good advise everyone, I found my new love! I
:: bought a left over 2006 RANS V2 with the rotor cranks upgrade. I went
:: yesterday to ride the V-Rex, didn't like it much again. Rode the
:: standard Stratus and the XP, and the V2 Formula 26 and last but not
:: least the standard V2. It was love at first ride. The guy at the shop
:: was a little suprised by the way I just got right on them and started
:: zipping around the parking lot, even though I told him I already had
:: a bent. He said most people get on them and are a little skittish.

Cool beans, Man! I was sure skittish, but I had zero 'bent experience.

I wish my LBS had had one for me to ride. The higher BB and lower seat seem
like an interesting option. I'm sure you'll love that baby.

::
:: But anyway yeah the V2 just /felt/ right. It was a pretty nimble
:: feeling bike, felt pretty lively as far as acceleration goes. And
:: the RANS seat felt really comfortable, but still stiff enough good
:: leverage. The ticket price was about $2100 but I got it for just a
:: tick over $1600 including tax. I thought it was a pretty good deal.
::

It seems curious that the website lists it for $1395.00

http://www.ransbikes.com/V2.htm#

Click V2 Specs for price. Perhaps you got some goodies and upgrades - oh,
rotor cranks. What are those about? Any other upgrades?

:: I pick it up next week.

Great!

[Roger Zoul]

Bill Sornson wrote:
:: Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
::
::: Anyone who tells me in a patronizing way to "tone it down" can kiss
::: my above seat steering.
:::
::: A flame war is healthy exercise for the mind.
::
:: ...and the horse you rode in on!

Tom seems like a very knowledgeable (about 'bents) troll.

[Just A User]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> Bill Sornson wrote:
> :: Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
> ::
> ::: Anyone who tells me in a patronizing way to "tone it down" can kiss
> ::: my above seat steering.
> :::
> ::: A flame war is healthy exercise for the mind.
> ::
> :: ...and the horse you rode in on!
>
> Tom seems like a very knowledgeable (about 'bents) troll.
>
>
Well he DOES seem to have a lot of knowledge, but I don't find him to be
the biggest troll of the recumbent ng. That is an honor that belongs to
the OTHER guy over there that claims to be a saint or something like
that. Tom in my opinion is much more tolerable.

[Roger Zoul]

Just A User wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Bill Sornson wrote:
::::: Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
:::::
:::::: Anyone who tells me in a patronizing way to "tone it down" can
:::::: kiss my above seat steering.
::::::
:::::: A flame war is healthy exercise for the mind.
:::::
::::: ...and the horse you rode in on!
:::
::: Tom seems like a very knowledgeable (about 'bents) troll.
:::
:::
:: Well he DOES seem to have a lot of knowledge, but I don't find him
:: to be the biggest troll of the recumbent ng. That is an honor that
:: belongs to the OTHER guy over there that claims to be a saint or
:: something like that. Tom in my opinion is much more tolerable.

I do agree with you...but I had to put Tom to bed too.

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> Just A User wrote:
> :: Roger Zoul wrote:
> ::: Bill Sornson wrote:
> ::::: Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
> :::::
> :::::: Anyone who tells me in a patronizing way to "tone it down" can
> :::::: kiss my above seat steering.
> ::::::
> :::::: A flame war is healthy exercise for the mind.
> :::::
> ::::: ...and the horse you rode in on!
> :::
> ::: Tom seems like a very knowledgeable (about 'bents) troll.
> :::
> :::
> :: Well he DOES seem to have a lot of knowledge, but I don't find him
> :: to be the biggest troll of the recumbent ng. That is an honor that
> :: belongs to the OTHER guy over there that claims to be a saint or
> :: something like that. Tom in my opinion is much more tolerable.
>
> I do agree with you...but I had to put Tom to bed too.

Boo hoo hoo! ;)

Anyone who would kill-file me deserves to be on a nanny moderated
message board, not unmoderated Usenet.

The only posts I would be happy to be rid of are from people (spammers,
certain trolls) who have no interest in interacting with the other
posters. These are DISCUSSION GROUPS, after all.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Just A User]

Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
> Roger Zoul wrote:
>> Just A User wrote:
>> :: Roger Zoul wrote:
>> ::: Bill Sornson wrote:
>> ::::: Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
>> :::::
>> :::::: Anyone who tells me in a patronizing way to "tone it down" can
>> :::::: kiss my above seat steering.
>> ::::::
>> :::::: A flame war is healthy exercise for the mind.
>> :::::
>> ::::: ...and the horse you rode in on!
>> :::
>> ::: Tom seems like a very knowledgeable (about 'bents) troll.
>> :::
>> :::
>> :: Well he DOES seem to have a lot of knowledge, but I don't find him
>> :: to be the biggest troll of the recumbent ng. That is an honor that
>> :: belongs to the OTHER guy over there that claims to be a saint or
>> :: something like that. Tom in my opinion is much more tolerable.
>>
>> I do agree with you...but I had to put Tom to bed too.
>
> Boo hoo hoo! ;)
>
> Anyone who would kill-file me deserves to be on a nanny moderated
> message board, not unmoderated Usenet.
>
> The only posts I would be happy to be rid of are from people (spammers,
> certain trolls) who have no interest in interacting with the other
> posters. These are DISCUSSION GROUPS, after all.
>

Yes they are discussion groups, which is why I don't mind some of the
off topic stuff. but when they get way out there, I exit.

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

Just A User who? wrote:
> Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
>> Roger Zoul wrote:
>>> Just A User wrote:
>>> :: Roger Zoul wrote:
>>> ::: Bill Sornson wrote:
>>> ::::: Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
>>> :::::
>>> :::::: Anyone who tells me in a patronizing way to "tone it down" can
>>> :::::: kiss my above seat steering.
>>> ::::::
>>> :::::: A flame war is healthy exercise for the mind.
>>> :::::
>>> ::::: ...and the horse you rode in on!
>>> :::
>>> ::: Tom seems like a very knowledgeable (about 'bents) troll.
>>> :::
>>> :::
>>> :: Well he DOES seem to have a lot of knowledge, but I don't find him
>>> :: to be the biggest troll of the recumbent ng. That is an honor that
>>> :: belongs to the OTHER guy over there that claims to be a saint or
>>> :: something like that. Tom in my opinion is much more tolerable.
>>>
>>> I do agree with you...but I had to put Tom to bed too.
>>
>> Boo hoo hoo! ;)
>>
>> Anyone who would kill-file me deserves to be on a nanny moderated
>> message board, not unmoderated Usenet.
>>
>> The only posts I would be happy to be rid of are from people
>> (spammers, certain trolls) who have no interest in interacting with
>> the other posters. These are DISCUSSION GROUPS, after all.
>>
>
> Yes they are discussion groups, which is why I don't mind some of the
> off topic stuff. but when they get way out there, I exit.

Get ye a newsreader with an "ignore thread" feature, then.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Roger Zoul]

Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:

::::: I do agree with you...but I had to put Tom to bed too.
::::
:::: Boo hoo hoo! ;)

Why are you crying, Tommyboy?

::::
:::: Anyone who would kill-file me deserves to be on a nanny moderated
:::: message board, not unmoderated Usenet.

You seem to make comments that sound rather like you know who...

::::
:::: The only posts I would be happy to be rid of are from people
:::: (spammers, certain trolls) who have no interest in interacting with
:::: the other posters. These are DISCUSSION GROUPS, after all.
::::

When you're on-topic and not doing silly back-in-forths with you-know-who, I
enjoy reading your posts, since you obviously have lots of knowledge about
bikes. However, you really need to spend your time, IMO, doing other things
rather than keeping troll-talk alive. Still, you're free to do as you
choose as am I, which is why I will be KFing you again on your new handle
that just showed up in my reader. Shame on you -- trying to get out of my
KF. You remind me of the Chung-troll.

:::
::: Yes they are discussion groups, which is why I don't mind some of
::: the off topic stuff. but when they get way out there, I exit.
::
:: Get ye a newsreader with an "ignore thread" feature, then.

KF work just as well.

[Tom \Johnny_Sunset\ Sherman]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> ...
> When you're on-topic and not doing silly back-in-forths with you-know-who, I
> enjoy reading your posts, since you obviously have lots of knowledge about
> bikes. However, you really need to spend your time, IMO, doing other things
> rather than keeping troll-talk alive. Still, you're free to do as you
> choose as am I, which is why I will be KFing you again on your new handle
> that just showed up in my reader. Shame on you -- trying to get out of my
> KF. You remind me of the Chung-troll....

For the record, my news-feed was sending posts into the ether, so I
temporarily reverted to the PITA known as Gurgle Gropes [1].

Ed Dolan is right (in this case). If you kill-fill someone, you should
not comment on them or portions of the postings that are quoted by others.

If I ever find myself in the Carolinas, I will NOT initiate any
conversations with a Stratus XP rider, in case it might be Mr. Zoul.

[1] gdanielsism for Google Groups.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Roger Zoul]

Tom "Johnny_Sunset" Sherman wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: ...
::: When you're on-topic and not doing silly back-in-forths with
::: you-know-who, I enjoy reading your posts, since you obviously have
::: lots of knowledge about bikes. However, you really need to spend
::: your time, IMO, doing other things rather than keeping troll-talk
::: alive. Still, you're free to do as you choose as am I, which is
::: why I will be KFing you again on your new handle that just showed
::: up in my reader. Shame on you -- trying to get out of my KF. You
::: remind me of the Chung-troll....
::
:: For the record, my news-feed was sending posts into the ether, so I
:: temporarily reverted to the PITA known as Gurgle Gropes [1].
::

So with that, every time you post it appears to be coming via another e-mail
address? This one shows up too.

:: Ed Dolan is right (in this case). If you kill-fill someone, you
:: should not comment on them or portions of the postings that are
:: quoted by others.

Er, why?

::
:: If I ever find myself in the Carolinas, I will NOT initiate any
:: conversations with a Stratus XP rider, in case it might be Mr. Zoul.
::

I'd be happy to chat with you and/or ride with you if you ever find yourself
in the Carolinas. I'm sure I could learn a lot from you...and I hope you'd
be a lot less annoying in RL than you can be on USENET.
You seem to take this stuff a bit too personal. Have you been riding?

[Roger Zoul]

Tom "Johnny_Sunset" Sherman wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: ...
::: When you're on-topic and not doing silly back-in-forths with
::: you-know-who, I enjoy reading your posts, since you obviously have
::: lots of knowledge about bikes. However, you really need to spend
::: your time, IMO, doing other things rather than keeping troll-talk
::: alive. Still, you're free to do as you choose as am I, which is
::: why I will be KFing you again on your new handle that just showed
::: up in my reader. Shame on you -- trying to get out of my KF. You
::: remind me of the Chung-troll....
::
:: For the record, my news-feed was sending posts into the ether, so I
:: temporarily reverted to the PITA known as Gurgle Gropes [1].
::
:: Ed Dolan is right (in this case). If you kill-fill someone, you
:: should not comment on them or portions of the postings that are
:: quoted by others.
::
:: If I ever find myself in the Carolinas, I will NOT initiate any
:: conversations with a Stratus XP rider, in case it might be Mr. Zoul.
::
:: [1] gdanielsism for Google Groups.
::
:: --
:: Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
:: The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
::


I didn't notice before I posted the last message that you added the
recumbent ng. I can only consider that as an attempt to draw you-know-who
into this discussion. That seems like a really sleazy thing to go. IMO.

[Tom \Johnny_Sunset\ Sherman]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> Tom "Johnny_Sunset" Sherman wrote:
> :: Roger Zoul wrote:
> ::: ...
> ::: When you're on-topic and not doing silly back-in-forths with
> ::: you-know-who, I enjoy reading your posts, since you obviously have
> ::: lots of knowledge about bikes. However, you really need to spend
> ::: your time, IMO, doing other things rather than keeping troll-talk
> ::: alive. Still, you're free to do as you choose as am I, which is
> ::: why I will be KFing you again on your new handle that just showed
> ::: up in my reader. Shame on you -- trying to get out of my KF. You
> ::: remind me of the Chung-troll....
> ::
> :: For the record, my news-feed was sending posts into the ether, so I
> :: temporarily reverted to the PITA known as Gurgle Gropes [1].
> ::
>
> So with that, every time you post it appears to be coming via another e-mail
> address? This one shows up too.

For someone who wants to kill-file me, it is surprising that he would
click on a post with my user name on it. ;)

> :: Ed Dolan is right (in this case). If you kill-fill someone, you
> :: should not comment on them or portions of the postings that are
> :: quoted by others.
>
> Er, why?

It is only fair that if you wish to comment on a post, you read the
original in its entirety. Quoted posts are often trimmed (acceptable)
and sometimes altered (unacceptable and dishonest, unless alterations
are put in editorial brackets [].

Besides, kill-filing indicates that the kill-filer wishes to pretend
another poster does not exist, so commenting on someone you have
kill-filed is illogical.

> :: If I ever find myself in the Carolinas, I will NOT initiate any
> :: conversations with a Stratus XP rider, in case it might be Mr. Zoul.
> ::
>
> I'd be happy to chat with you and/or ride with you if you ever find yourself
> in the Carolinas.

Several areas do look promising for a WINTER cycling vacation (the heat
and humidity are bad enough here in the Upper Midwest).

> I'm sure I could learn a lot from you...and I hope you'd
> be a lot less annoying in R[eal] L[ife] than you can be on USENET.

Well, that is subject to debate. ;)

> You seem to take this stuff a bit too personal[ly].

Naw, I just enjoy the more spirited discussions, which is why you will
not find me on BROL. (In fact, I observed a thread being locked on BROL
because the participants "were going after each other", while in real
life they get along just fine.

As KK aka nogoslow aka Magilla Gorilla would say, "some of us like to
bark on the Internet".

> Have you been riding?

Not much, since most days I do not feel that good, and I stopped going
to the doctor since I could not afford $500 - $800/month in medical
bills uncovered by insurance.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Edward Dolan]

"Roger Zoul" <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:13b94kf77h19e5e@news.supernews.com...
> Tom "Johnny_Sunset" Sherman wrote:
[...]
> :: Ed Dolan is right (in this case). If you kill-fill someone, you
> :: should not comment on them or portions of the postings that are
> :: quoted by others.
>
> Er, why?

Because there is not one person in a hundred who knows how to properly edit
a post. They will quote me or Mr. Sherman and it will be totally ****ed-up.
And then you will comment on that ****ed-up post. Screw you, you dumb
bastard!

Once you have killed filed someone, then shut up about him!
[...]

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Roger Zoul]

Tom "Johnny_Sunset" Sherman wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Tom "Johnny_Sunset" Sherman wrote:
::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::::: ...
:::::: When you're on-topic and not doing silly back-in-forths with
:::::: you-know-who, I enjoy reading your posts, since you obviously
:::::: have lots of knowledge about bikes. However, you really need to
:::::: spend your time, IMO, doing other things rather than keeping
:::::: troll-talk alive. Still, you're free to do as you choose as am
:::::: I, which is why I will be KFing you again on your new handle
:::::: that just showed up in my reader. Shame on you -- trying to get
:::::: out of my KF. You remind me of the Chung-troll....
:::::
::::: For the record, my news-feed was sending posts into the ether, so
::::: I temporarily reverted to the PITA known as Gurgle Gropes [1].
:::::
:::
::: So with that, every time you post it appears to be coming via
::: another e-mail address? This one shows up too.
::
:: For someone who wants to kill-file me, it is surprising that he would
:: click on a post with my user name on it. ;)

What's so surprising about it? I've told you why I KFed you....given that,
it's not surprising at all.

::
::::: Ed Dolan is right (in this case). If you kill-fill someone, you
::::: should not comment on them or portions of the postings that are
::::: quoted by others.
:::
::: Er, why?
::
:: It is only fair

hehe. Who cares about fair?

that if you wish to comment on a post, you read the
:: original in its entirety. Quoted posts are often trimmed (acceptable)
:: and sometimes altered (unacceptable and dishonest, unless alterations
:: are put in editorial brackets [].

Frankly, that's too much effort for usenet. If I really want to know, I'll
find it. If not, I won't bother. To try to impose some logic or acceptable
norms of behavior here is wasteful of energy, IMO. You seem to put a lot of
energy into usenet.

::
:: Besides, kill-filing indicates that the kill-filer wishes to pretend
:: another poster does not exist, so commenting on someone you have
:: kill-filed is illogical.

KFing indicates that you know the person exists, but for one reason or
another wish not to be subjected to his/her drivel. ;)

::
::::: If I ever find myself in the Carolinas, I will NOT initiate any
::::: conversations with a Stratus XP rider, in case it might be Mr.
::::: Zoul.
:::::
:::
::: I'd be happy to chat with you and/or ride with you if you ever find
::: yourself in the Carolinas.
::
:: Several areas do look promising for a WINTER cycling vacation (the
:: heat and humidity are bad enough here in the Upper Midwest).
::

I think I can ride 11 months of the year here. Feb tends to have many days
that are too cold for how I wish to dress.


::: I'm sure I could learn a lot from you...and I hope you'd
::: be a lot less annoying in R[eal] L[ife] than you can be on USENET.
::
:: Well, that is subject to debate. ;)
::
::: You seem to take this stuff a bit too personal[ly].
::
:: Naw, I just enjoy the more spirited discussions, which is why you
:: will not find me on BROL. (In fact, I observed a thread being locked
:: on BROL because the participants "were going after each other",
:: while in real life they get along just fine.

There can be some very spirited discussion on BROL. You judge spirit by
whether people are going after each other?

::
:: As KK aka nogoslow aka Magilla Gorilla would say, "some of us like to
:: bark on the Internet".
::

I'm one of those...but BROL has good recumbent coverage. I don't see usenet
as being useful in that regard.

::: Have you been riding?
::
:: Not much, since most days I do not feel that good, and I stopped
:: going to the doctor since I could not afford $500 - $800/month in
:: medical bills uncovered by insurance.
::

Sorry for this. In my mind, this could explain your behavoir a bit.
Perhaps you simply have a lot of time to spend on USENET going back-in-forth
with you-know-who and being perfect in your responses -- it can provide a
good distraction. I just like to be short and sweet.

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom "Johnny_Sunset" Sherman" <sunsetss0003@invalida.com> wrote in message
news:46b48c25$0$8173$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
> Roger Zoul wrote:
[...]

Tom Sherman wrote:

>> :: Ed Dolan is right (in this case). If you kill-fill someone, you
>> :: should not comment on them or portions of the postings that are
>> :: quoted by others.
>>
>> Er, why?
>
> It is only fair that if you wish to comment on a post, you read the
> original in its entirety. Quoted posts are often trimmed (acceptable) and
> sometimes altered (unacceptable and dishonest, unless alterations are put
> in editorial brackets [].
>
> Besides, kill-filing indicates that the kill-filer wishes to pretend
> another poster does not exist, so commenting on someone you have
> kill-filed is illogical.

I second everything Tom Sherman says above. The one thing that infuriates me
is when I know a kill-filer wants to get in on the conversation based on
secondary sources. Or worse yet, he just wants to comment on someone without
ever reading the original posts. I got after old Cletus Lee of Texas on ARBR
for committing this mortal sin. He is now thankfully gone from these
newsgroups.

A good rule of thumb is that if you think you will ever want to comment on
someone's posts, then do not kill-file him - and do not crow about it either
one way or the other. This marks you as a jerk, a nerd and a toad!

Just for the record, I have never kill-filed anyone (not even the execrable
Ed Gin, a criminal vandal troll who destroyed ARBR some years ago) and I
never will. Yet I have been called every name in the book. Well, words can't
hurt me, something the rest of you should also learn.
[...]

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota