More on 25 or bigger...

[marian.rosenberg@gmail.com]

Okay, so 27 inch wheels are bigger than 700c wheels and switching to
them would only make my problem of wanting wider tires worse.

Mountain bike 26" wheels are smaller than 700c but bigger than 650b.
They're also available.

The little bike shop has heard of 650b. They've never actually seen
them.

I'm not sure about the big bike shop yet. They're officially opening
a second store so it will no longer be necessary to travel 300km to
see them anymore but even if I did take the mechanic/branch manager
out for dinner on Saturday evening there is no stock in stock yet and
he's a bit busy with the move and promotion for me to be asking him to
look into special project stuff right now.

We were too tired after yesterday's mountain climb to actually put the
bike on the workstand and limited ourselves to talking theory. The
mechanic/owner of the little shop thinks if I go with mountain bike
wheels that even a new pair of long reach brakes with the brake pads
all the way down won't be long enough. Obviously, since 650b wheels
are a tad smaller than 26" wheels this is wrong. Equally obvious is
that new brakes will be necessary. And that I should keep the same
kind of brakes I have now because I don't have mounting points on my
frame for any other kind of brakes.

So, realizing that if I change my wheelset to make this bike work the
way I want it to work will mean becoming the sort of person who keeps
a spare tire (or three) in her closet, and in full cognizance that I'm
going to need new brakes whatever I do... but that 650b is likely to
be a more troublesome conversion than 26" mountain bike wheels...

What do I need?

-M

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

Marian Rosenberg wrote:
> Okay, so 27 inch wheels are bigger than 700c wheels and switching to
> them would only make my problem of wanting wider tires worse.
>
> Mountain bike 26" wheels are smaller than 700c but bigger than 650b....

Er, no. 650B rims are ISO 584-mm, while 26-inch MTB rims are ISO 559-
mm.

See <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire_sizing.html>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

[Forbes B-Black]

On Jul 29, 11:18 pm, "marian.rosenb...@gmail.com"
<marian.rosenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Okay, so 27 inch wheels are bigger than 700c wheels and switching to
> them would only make my problem of wanting wider tires worse.
>
> Mountain bike 26" wheels are smaller than 700c but bigger than 650b.
> They're also available.
>
> The little bike shop has heard of 650b. They've never actually seen
> them.
>
> I'm not sure about the big bike shop yet. They're officially opening
> a second store so it will no longer be necessary to travel 300km to
> see them anymore but even if I did take the mechanic/branch manager
> out for dinner on Saturday evening there is no stock in stock yet and
> he's a bit busy with the move and promotion for me to be asking him to
> look into special project stuff right now.
>
> We were too tired after yesterday's mountain climb to actually put the
> bike on the workstand and limited ourselves to talking theory. The
> mechanic/owner of the little shop thinks if I go with mountain bike
> wheels that even a new pair of long reach brakes with the brake pads
> all the way down won't be long enough. Obviously, since 650b wheels
> are a tad smaller than 26" wheels this is wrong. Equally obvious is
> that new brakes will be necessary. And that I should keep the same
> kind of brakes I have now because I don't have mounting points on my
> frame for any other kind of brakes.
>
> So, realizing that if I change my wheelset to make this bike work the
> way I want it to work will mean becoming the sort of person who keeps
> a spare tire (or three) in her closet, and in full cognizance that I'm
> going to need new brakes whatever I do... but that 650b is likely to
> be a more troublesome conversion than 26" mountain bike wheels...
>
> What do I need?
>
> -M

What Johnny/Tom said... 650B rims are a bit bigger than "standard" 26"
mountain bike rims, radius/diameter-wise.

BUT, if you are looking for a nice, wide set of 650B tires, you could
go with the "Super Chubby" tires from Cycles Valhalla:

http://cyclesvalhalla.com/650btires.html

These are 42mm wide and extremely rugged. They have a "semi knobby"
tread pattern. And they are pretty cheap at $27/PAIR or $15/EACH.

Are you doing a 700C to 650B conversion? If so, what frame/fork are
you using? Are you sure you have clearance for wider tires?

Yours,

- FBB

[Booker C. Bense]

In article <1185776318.664385.287850@z24g2000prh.googlegroups. com>,
marian.rosenberg@gmail.com <marian.rosenberg@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>What do I need?
>

You need a new frame designed to deal with wide tires and
carrying a load. This one is dirt cheap by USA standards

http://tinyurl.com/2k2pe7

and probably made a lot closer to you than me.
Bodging bikes is fun, but dealing with the bodge
hundreds of km's away from the nearest source of the
part you need is not.

_ Booker C. Bense

[marian.rosenberg@gmail.com]

On Jul 31, 6:56 am, Forbes B-Black <diarma...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 29, 11:18 pm, "marian.rosenb...@gmail.com"
>
>
>
> <marian.rosenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Okay, so 27 inch wheels are bigger than 700c wheels and switching to
> > them would only make my problem of wanting wider tires worse.
>
> > Mountain bike 26" wheels are smaller than 700c but bigger than 650b.
> > They're also available.
>
> > The little bike shop has heard of 650b. They've never actually seen
> > them.
>
> > I'm not sure about the big bike shop yet. They're officially opening
> > a second store so it will no longer be necessary to travel 300km to
> > see them anymore but even if I did take the mechanic/branch manager
> > out for dinner on Saturday evening there is no stock in stock yet and
> > he's a bit busy with the move and promotion for me to be asking him to
> > look into special project stuff right now.
>
> > We were too tired after yesterday's mountain climb to actually put the
> > bike on the workstand and limited ourselves to talking theory. The
> > mechanic/owner of the little shop thinks if I go with mountain bike
> > wheels that even a new pair of long reach brakes with the brake pads
> > all the way down won't be long enough. Obviously, since 650b wheels
> > are a tad smaller than 26" wheels this is wrong. Equally obvious is
> > that new brakes will be necessary. And that I should keep the same
> > kind of brakes I have now because I don't have mounting points on my
> > frame for any other kind of brakes.
>
> > So, realizing that if I change my wheelset to make this bike work the
> > way I want it to work will mean becoming the sort of person who keeps
> > a spare tire (or three) in her closet, and in full cognizance that I'm
> > going to need new brakes whatever I do... but that 650b is likely to
> > be a more troublesome conversion than 26" mountain bike wheels...
>
> > What do I need?
>
> > -M
>
> What Johnny/Tom said... 650B rims are a bit bigger than "standard" 26"
> mountain bike rims, radius/diameter-wise.
>
> BUT, if you are looking for a nice, wide set of 650B tires, you could
> go with the "Super Chubby" tires from Cycles Valhalla:
>
> http://cyclesvalhalla.com/650btires.html
>
> These are 42mm wide and extremely rugged. They have a "semi knobby"
> tread pattern. And they are pretty cheap at $27/PAIR or $15/EACH.
>
> Are you doing a 700C to 650B conversion? If so, what frame/fork are
> you using? Are you sure you have clearance for wider tires?

I have added a race bike to my stable and am looking to make my
current road bike more of a tour bike. It is currently my daily ride
and, when all three bikes are in the same city at the same time, my
training bike on rest days.

I currently have 700C x 23 tires on the road bike. There is enough
clearance for 700C x 25 but it appears that there will not be enough
clearance for 700C x 28. Since 28 tires would have to be special
ordered we're eyeballing it.

The solution is smaller wheels.

>From Sheldon's

630 mm = 27 x anything
622 mm = 700 C

So switching to 27" rims would make my problem worse.

599 mm = 26 x 1.25, 26 x 1.375
597 mm = 26 x 1 1/4, 26 x 1 3/8 (S-6)
590 mm = 26 x 1 3/8 (E.A.3), 650 A
584 mm - 650B, 26 x 1 1/2
571 mm = 26 x 1, 26 x 1 1/2, 26 x 1 3/4, 650 C
559 mm = 26 x 1.00- x 2.125

So presumably, since 650B rims are a theoretical product which my
mechanic has heard rumors of but never actually seen I should be able
to get 26" rims. Correct?

-M

[Zoot Katz]

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 05:23:07 -0000, "marian.rosenberg@gmail.com"
<marian.rosenberg@gmail.com> wrote:

>I currently have 700C x 23 tires on the road bike. There is enough
>clearance for 700C x 25 but it appears that there will not be enough
>clearance for 700C x 28. Since 28 tires would have to be special
>ordered we're eyeballing it.
>
>The solution is smaller wheels.
>
>>From Sheldon's
>
>630 mm = 27 x anything
>622 mm = 700 C
>
>So switching to 27" rims would make my problem worse.
>
>599 mm = 26 x 1.25, 26 x 1.375
>597 mm = 26 x 1 1/4, 26 x 1 3/8 (S-6)
>590 mm = 26 x 1 3/8 (E.A.3), 650 A
>584 mm - 650B, 26 x 1 1/2
>571 mm = 26 x 1, 26 x 1 1/2, 26 x 1 3/4, 650 C
>559 mm = 26 x 1.00- x 2.125
>
>So presumably, since 650B rims are a theoretical product which my
>mechanic has heard rumors of but never actually seen I should be able
>to get 26" rims. Correct?

Why not go with the 650A?

The good ol' 26 x 1 3/8". They're commonly used on lightweight 3 spd.
English roadsters Tires and tubes are available in most bike shops
worthy of the name. Alloy rims can be had with 40 holes if you're
serious about loaded touring. The tires are usually sturdy.

It should be easier to find a 26 x 1 3/8" wheel in China than some
goofy old French size Grant Peterson is presently touting in his
newsletter/catalogue. Let's get real.

Grab a wheel off a three speed and see if the tire clears your frame.
If so: Scramble for brakes. Save money. Go touring.
--
zk

[Forbes B-Black]

On Jul 30, 10:23 pm, "marian.rosenb...@gmail.com"
> So presumably, since 650B rims are a theoretical product which my
> mechanic has heard rumors of but never actually seen I should be able
> to get 26" rims. Correct?
>
You won't be able to get brakes long enough to make that conversion
work. 650Bs would work with some of the ultra-long reach Tektro
brakes, but standard 26" rims are too small. So it might be time to
edumicate your LBS about 650 wheels.

And the Cycles Valhalla Super Chubbies would definitely be too wide
for your bike.

Good luck with the project!

- FBB

[marian.rosenberg@gmail.com]

On Jul 31, 2:45 pm, Zoot Katz <zootk...@operamail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 05:23:07 -0000, "marian.rosenb...@gmail.com"
>
>
>
> <marian.rosenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >I currently have 700C x 23 tires on the road bike. There is enough
> >clearance for 700C x 25 but it appears that there will not be enough
> >clearance for 700C x 28. Since 28 tires would have to be special
> >ordered we're eyeballing it.
>
> >The solution is smaller wheels.
>
> >>From Sheldon's
>
> >630 mm = 27 x anything
> >622 mm = 700 C
>
> >So switching to 27" rims would make my problem worse.
>
> >599 mm = 26 x 1.25, 26 x 1.375
> >597 mm = 26 x 1 1/4, 26 x 1 3/8 (S-6)
> >590 mm = 26 x 1 3/8 (E.A.3), 650 A
> >584 mm - 650B, 26 x 1 1/2
> >571 mm = 26 x 1, 26 x 1 1/2, 26 x 1 3/4, 650 C
> >559 mm = 26 x 1.00- x 2.125
>
> >So presumably, since 650B rims are a theoretical product which my
> >mechanic has heard rumors of but never actually seen I should be able
> >to get 26" rims. Correct?
>
> Why not go with the 650A?

Ummm... cause most of what I learned about cycling either came from
Chinese speaking racer boys, this newsgroup, and occasional perusing
of Sheldon Brown's website and I've never previously heard of 650A or
road bike conversions thereof (but I'll be spending some quality time
with Mr.Google this afternoon on the subject).

> The good ol' 26 x 1 3/8". They're commonly used on lightweight 3 spd.
> English roadsters Tires and tubes are available in most bike shops
> worthy of the name. Alloy rims can be had with 40 holes if you're
> serious about loaded touring. The tires are usually sturdy.

Roadster = city bike, yes? Step through frame, basket, rack... the
works? Lots of them around here. 3 speeds, on the other hand, are
rarer than racer boys with carbon forks.

> It should be easier to find a 26 x 1 3/8" wheel in China than some
> goofy old French size Grant Peterson is presently touting in his
> newsletter/catalogue. Let's get real.

This is why I was thinking mountain bike wheel. Cause 650B would be
too hard to find and too much harder to keep maintained.

> Grab a wheel off a three speed and see if the tire clears your frame.
> If so: Scramble for brakes. Save money. Go touring.

I like the way you think.

-M

[marian.rosenberg@gmail.com]

On Aug 1, 12:34 am, Booker C. Bense <bbense+rec.bicycles.misc.Jul.
31...@telemark.slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> In article <1185776318.664385.287...@z24g2000prh.googlegroups. com>,
>
> marian.rosenb...@gmail.com <marian.rosenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >What do I need?
>
> You need a new frame designed to deal with wide tires and
> carrying a load. This one is dirt cheap by USA standards
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2k2pe7
>
> and probably made a lot closer to you than me.
> Bodging bikes is fun, but dealing with the bodge
> hundreds of km's away from the nearest source of the
> part you need is not.

I don't want a new frame. I have a highly modified bike that has a
special history and that does a very good job of being an all-
rounder. Now that I have a race bike this bike no longer needs to
fill the race bike niche and I want to move it more in the touring
bike direction.

With smaller wheels, wider tires, new brakes to accomodate the new
wheels, and a taller fork (with mounts for a front rack) it will be as
close to perfect as it can get.

I just need to figure out what modifications to make and exactly what
I need for making those modifications because some of the parts are
going to need to be special ordered.

Personally, I doubt that I'll ever do sufficiently serious touring
such as to need a front rack but if I'm going to make this bike less
racy I need a taller fork and if I'm going to get a new fork I may as
well kill two birds with one stone. The 'big' places to go which
require lots of luggage are basically Tibet and Qinghai and other high
elevation locations and I already know that I don't altitude adapt
well. Even if I were to take a two week journey to Shanghai I
wouldn't need the tent or the cooking supplies or whatnot because
hotels are sufficiently cheap (as low as 30rmb a night if one is so
inclined) and restaurants are too.

-M

[Booker C. Bense]

In article <1185931288.515110.208490@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.c om>,
marian.rosenberg@gmail.com <marian.rosenberg@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Aug 1, 12:34 am, Booker C. Bense <bbense+rec.bicycles.misc.Jul.
>31...@telemark.slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>> In article <1185776318.664385.287...@z24g2000prh.googlegroups. com>,
>>
>> marian.rosenb...@gmail.com <marian.rosenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >What do I need?
>>
>> You need a new frame designed to deal with wide tires and
>> carrying a load. This one is dirt cheap by USA standards
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/2k2pe7
>>
>> and probably made a lot closer to you than me.
>> Bodging bikes is fun, but dealing with the bodge
>> hundreds of km's away from the nearest source of the
>> part you need is not.
>
>I don't want a new frame. I have a highly modified bike that has a
>special history and that does a very good job of being an all-
>rounder. Now that I have a race bike this bike no longer needs to
>fill the race bike niche and I want to move it more in the touring
>bike direction.
>
>With smaller wheels, wider tires, new brakes to accomodate the new
>wheels, and a taller fork (with mounts for a front rack) it will be as
>close to perfect as it can get.

You do realize that you aren't saving money right?

>
>I just need to figure out what modifications to make and exactly what
>I need for making those modifications because some of the parts are
>going to need to be special ordered.
>
>Personally, I doubt that I'll ever do sufficiently serious touring
>such as to need a front rack but if I'm going to make this bike less
>racy I need a taller fork and if I'm going to get a new fork I may as
>well kill two birds with one stone.

Sorry I misunderstood, I thought load touring was the goal. If
you can live with the limitations and are irrationally attached
to a specific frame[1] 650B is probably a reasonable choice.
If you are getting a fork that has a significant difference
in wheel to crown vs. just steerer height, your bike may handle
quite differently.

_ Booker C. Bense

[1]_ that's not meant to be pejorative. I have several frames I'm
irrationally attached to, I've spent way more than a new bikes
worth updating them. It's lot's of fun, but it's doesn't really
save either money or time.

[marian.rosenberg@gmail.com]

On Aug 1, 12:17 pm, Booker C. Bense <bbense+rec.bicycles.misc.Jul.
31...@telemark.slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> In article <1185931288.515110.208...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.c om>,
>
>
>
> marian.rosenb...@gmail.com <marian.rosenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Aug 1, 12:34 am, Booker C. Bense <bbense+rec.bicycles.misc.Jul.
> >31...@telemark.slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> >> In article <1185776318.664385.287...@z24g2000prh.googlegroups. com>,
>
> >> marian.rosenb...@gmail.com <marian.rosenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >What do I need?
>
> >> You need a new frame designed to deal with wide tires and
> >> carrying a load. This one is dirt cheap by USA standards
>
> >>http://tinyurl.com/2k2pe7
>
> >> and probably made a lot closer to you than me.
> >> Bodging bikes is fun, but dealing with the bodge
> >> hundreds of km's away from the nearest source of the
> >> part you need is not.
>
> >I don't want a new frame. I have a highly modified bike that has a
> >special history and that does a very good job of being an all-
> >rounder. Now that I have a race bike this bike no longer needs to
> >fill the race bike niche and I want to move it more in the touring
> >bike direction.
>
> >With smaller wheels, wider tires, new brakes to accomodate the new
> >wheels, and a taller fork (with mounts for a front rack) it will be as
> >close to perfect as it can get.
>
> You do realize that you aren't saving money right?

Although saving money is not my goal, I tend to disagree. If I buy a
new frame I have a frame that has a specific purpose, that purpose,
and no other purpose in mind. It will not be a general purpose bike
that happens to be suitable for touring it will be a touring bike that
can also be used for general purpose but won't be because I'll already
have a general purpose bike in the stable. That or I will have to
strip this bike of all its parts and put it on that frame in which
case I end up with a frame I'm not using.

> >I just need to figure out what modifications to make and exactly what
> >I need for making those modifications because some of the parts are
> >going to need to be special ordered.
>
> >Personally, I doubt that I'll ever do sufficiently serious touring
> >such as to need a front rack but if I'm going to make this bike less
> >racy I need a taller fork and if I'm going to get a new fork I may as
> >well kill two birds with one stone.
>
> Sorry I misunderstood, I thought load touring was the goal. If
> you can live with the limitations and are irrationally attached
> to a specific frame[1] 650B is probably a reasonable choice.
> If you are getting a fork that has a significant difference
> in wheel to crown vs. just steerer height, your bike may handle
> quite differently.

Just changing the steerer height.

The current fork cost 50rmb - $6. The one I'm thinking of will
probably cost 100rmb - $12.
New brakes will run me another 100rmb - $12. Maybe 150rmb.
The wheelset will be the expensive bit. But, not counting the tires,
it should run me under 800rmb for handbuilt stress relieved etceteras
with good hubs (at least 105 quality) and decent rims. And, the
current wheels will become training wheels for the race bike.

-M