The Great Don Quijote of RBM!

[Edward Dolan]

I like to read posts by such as Don Quijote. He is pure and I am not. Yea, I
KNOW what scoundrels all the rest of you are and I treat you accordingly.
Unfortunately, in the process, I become as bad as any of you.

But Don Quijote presses on pure and innocent and occasionally quite naive.
He is like a breath of fresh air after all our vituperations. I am mostly in
a rage every time I come on these freaking cycling newsgroups. I only want
to kill all of you. Sometimes I think I am going crazy from the frustration
of it all.

But then I read a message from the Great Don Quijote and I realize that all
is not lost after all. We need to become like children in order to go on
living. I mourn my lost innocence. It was Tom Sherman of ARBR who soured me
for Usenet. Aye, I hold him responsible for my dour disposition.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[dh]

"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
news:Wf-dnb4U9YZuWDPbnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@prairiewave.com...
>I like to read posts by such as Don Quijote. He is pure and I am not. Yea,
>I KNOW what scoundrels all the rest of you are and I treat you accordingly.
>Unfortunately, in the process, I become as bad as any of you.
>
> But Don Quijote presses on pure and innocent and occasionally quite naive.
> He is like a breath of fresh air after all our vituperations. I am mostly
> in a rage every time I come on these freaking cycling newsgroups. I only
> want to kill all of you. Sometimes I think I am going crazy from the
> frustration of it all.
>
> But then I read a message from the Great Don Quijote and I realize that
> all is not lost after all. We need to become like children in order to go
> on living. I mourn my lost innocence. It was Tom Sherman of ARBR who
> soured me for Usenet. Aye, I hold him responsible for my dour disposition.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Maybe you'd be happier in California?



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[donquijote1954]

On Jul 31, 1:17 am, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
> I like to read posts by such as Don Quijote. He is pure and I am not. Yea, I
> KNOW what scoundrels all the rest of you are and I treat you accordingly.
> Unfortunately, in the process, I become as bad as any of you.
>
> But Don Quijote presses on pure and innocent and occasionally quite naive.
> He is like a breath of fresh air after all our vituperations. I am mostly in
> a rage every time I come on these freaking cycling newsgroups. I only want
> to kill all of you. Sometimes I think I am going crazy from the frustration
> of it all.
>
> But then I read a message from the Great Don Quijote and I realize that all
> is not lost after all. We need to become like children in order to go on
> living. I mourn my lost innocence. It was Tom Sherman of ARBR who soured me
> for Usenet. Aye, I hold him responsible for my dour disposition.
>

That's real nice of you, Great Ed. There's some real bad people here.
But there's no need to kill them. I mean, we don't need to kill them
when we can torture them. And besides, there's a bunch people waking
up to the need of bike lanes, bike paths and other facilities. We just
got to lead the way, "Sancho, let's go for it!"

[donquijote1954]

On Aug 2, 11:42 am, "Keats" <ke...@nospam.com> wrote:

> > Maybe he's having a good time riding bike between cocktail and
> > cocktail, but most American don't feel any safer riding a bike than
> > the troops he sent to Iraq.
>
> Something tells me you aren't exactly all squared away. Were you whacked in
> the head by a windmill blade somewhere along the line?-

No, I'm afraid of being whacked by an SUV. These giants are really
dangerous.

Windmills don't mess with you if you don't mess with them.

[donquijote1954]

dh wrote:
> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
> news:Wf-dnb4U9YZuWDPbnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@prairiewave.com...
> >I like to read posts by such as Don Quijote. He is pure and I am not. Yea,
> >I KNOW what scoundrels all the rest of you are and I treat you accordingly.
> >Unfortunately, in the process, I become as bad as any of you.
> >
> > But Don Quijote presses on pure and innocent and occasionally quite naive.
> > He is like a breath of fresh air after all our vituperations. I am mostly
> > in a rage every time I come on these freaking cycling newsgroups. I only
> > want to kill all of you. Sometimes I think I am going crazy from the
> > frustration of it all.
> >
> > But then I read a message from the Great Don Quijote and I realize that
> > all is not lost after all. We need to become like children in order to go
> > on living. I mourn my lost innocence. It was Tom Sherman of ARBR who
> > soured me for Usenet. Aye, I hold him responsible for my dour disposition.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> > aka
> > Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>
> Maybe you'd be happier in California?

In California they may have a barbarian governor, but at least he's
open to change. His Hummer is hydrogen powered. Well, it could be
worst.

Next thing we need is a president who rides a bike.

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

"donquijote1954" who? wrote:
> On Jul 31, 1:17 am, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>> I like to read posts by such as Don Quijote. He is pure and I am not. Yea, I
>> KNOW what scoundrels all the rest of you are and I treat you accordingly.
>> Unfortunately, in the process, I become as bad as any of you.
>>
>> But Don Quijote presses on pure and innocent and occasionally quite naive.
>> He is like a breath of fresh air after all our vituperations. I am mostly in
>> a rage every time I come on these freaking cycling newsgroups. I only want
>> to kill all of you. Sometimes I think I am going crazy from the frustration
>> of it all.
>>
>> But then I read a message from the Great Don Quijote and I realize that all
>> is not lost after all. We need to become like children in order to go on
>> living. I mourn my lost innocence. It was Tom Sherman of ARBR who soured me
>> for Usenet. Aye, I hold him responsible for my dour disposition.
>>
>
> That's real nice of you, Great Ed. There's some real bad people here.
> But there's no need to kill them. I mean, we don't need to kill them
> when we can torture them. And besides, there's a bunch people waking
> up to the need of bike lanes, bike paths and other facilities. We just
> got to lead the way, "Sancho, let's go for it!"

Who needs Usama bin Laden when we have promoters of second class
citizenship for cyclists?

What we need is SHOWERS and BIKE LOCKERS at work so cycle commuting is
practical. I propose a tax on employee parking spaces that could be
offset by adding REAL cyclist friendly facilities.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Hank Wirtz]

On Aug 1, 2:26 pm, donquijote1954 <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> dh wrote:
> > "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote in message
> >news:Wf-dnb4U9YZuWDPbnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@prairiewave.com...
> > >I like to read posts by such as Don Quijote. He is pure and I am not. Yea,
> > >I KNOW what scoundrels all the rest of you are and I treat you accordingly.
> > >Unfortunately, in the process, I become as bad as any of you.
>
> > > But Don Quijote presses on pure and innocent and occasionally quite naive.
> > > He is like a breath of fresh air after all our vituperations. I am mostly
> > > in a rage every time I come on these freaking cycling newsgroups. I only
> > > want to kill all of you. Sometimes I think I am going crazy from the
> > > frustration of it all.
>
> > > But then I read a message from the Great Don Quijote and I realize that
> > > all is not lost after all. We need to become like children in order to go
> > > on living. I mourn my lost innocence. It was Tom Sherman of ARBR who
> > > soured me for Usenet. Aye, I hold him responsible for my dour disposition.
>
> > > Regards,
>
> > > Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> > > aka
> > > Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>
> > Maybe you'd be happier in California?
>
> In California they may have a barbarian governor, but at least he's
> open to change. His Hummer is hydrogen powered. Well, it could be
> worst.
>
> Next thing we need is a president who rides a bike.

"A" president who rides a bike is fine. Just not "The" president who
rides a bike.

[Victor Kan]

On Aug 1, 5:26 pm, donquijote1954 <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Next thing we need is a president who rides a bike.

We currently do. Don't you remember the key issue of the 2004
election wrt to Kerry vs. Bush?

Kerry's a road rider, Bush is a MTB rider.

http://outside.away.com/outside/decision04/index_1.html

[donquijote1954]

On Aug 1, 7:29 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> On Aug 1, 2:26 pm, donquijote1954 <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > dh wrote:
> > > "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote in message
> > >news:Wf-dnb4U9YZuWDPbnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@prairiewave.com...
> > > >I like to read posts by such as Don Quijote. He is pure and I am not. Yea,
> > > >I KNOW what scoundrels all the rest of you are and I treat you accordingly.
> > > >Unfortunately, in the process, I become as bad as any of you.
>
> > > > But Don Quijote presses on pure and innocent and occasionally quite naive.
> > > > He is like a breath of fresh air after all our vituperations. I am mostly
> > > > in a rage every time I come on these freaking cycling newsgroups. I only
> > > > want to kill all of you. Sometimes I think I am going crazy from the
> > > > frustration of it all.
>
> > > > But then I read a message from the Great Don Quijote and I realize that
> > > > all is not lost after all. We need to become like children in order to go
> > > > on living. I mourn my lost innocence. It was Tom Sherman of ARBR who
> > > > soured me for Usenet. Aye, I hold him responsible for my dour disposition.
>
> > > > Regards,
>
> > > > Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> > > > aka
> > > > Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>
> > > Maybe you'd be happier in California?
>
> > In California they may have a barbarian governor, but at least he's
> > open to change. His Hummer is hydrogen powered. Well, it could be
> > worst.
>
> > Next thing we need is a president who rides a bike.
>
> "A" president who rides a bike is fine. Just not "The" president who
> rides a bike.-

After having a president by and for the SUVs, we need a chance for our
humble bikes. Maybe we need to come up with a bicycle party, since
they have a Big Oil party.

[donquijote1954]

On Aug 1, 8:16 pm, Victor Kan <victor....@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 1, 5:26 pm, donquijote1954 <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Next thing we need is a president who rides a bike.
>
> We currently do. Don't you remember the key issue of the 2004
> election wrt to Kerry vs. Bush?
>
> Kerry's a road rider, Bush is a MTB rider.
>
> http://outside.away.com/outside/decision04/index_1.html

Maybe good for photo ops, but we need the real thing. Someone who
rides to and from the White House, and who makes our roads safe. Safer
than Iraq at least.

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Aug 1, 7:44 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
<sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "donquijote1954" who? wrote:
> > On Jul 31, 1:17 am, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
> >> I like to read posts by such as Don Quijote. He is pure and I am not. Yea, I
> >> KNOW what scoundrels all the rest of you are and I treat you accordingly.
> >> Unfortunately, in the process, I become as bad as any of you.
>
> >> But Don Quijote presses on pure and innocent and occasionally quite naive.
> >> He is like a breath of fresh air after all our vituperations. I am mostly in
> >> a rage every time I come on these freaking cycling newsgroups. I only want
> >> to kill all of you. Sometimes I think I am going crazy from the frustration
> >> of it all.
>
> >> But then I read a message from the Great Don Quijote and I realize that all
> >> is not lost after all. We need to become like children in order to go on
> >> living. I mourn my lost innocence. It was Tom Sherman of ARBR who soured me
> >> for Usenet. Aye, I hold him responsible for my dour disposition.
>
> > That's real nice of you, Great Ed. There's some real bad people here.
> > But there's no need to kill them. I mean, we don't need to kill them
> > when we can torture them. And besides, there's a bunch people waking
> > up to the need of bike lanes, bike paths and other facilities. We just
> > got to lead the way, "Sancho, let's go for it!"
>
> Who needs Usama bin Laden when we have promoters of second class
> citizenship for cyclists?
>
> What we need is SHOWERS and BIKE LOCKERS at work so cycle commuting is
> practical. I propose a tax on employee parking spaces that could be
> offset by adding REAL cyclist friendly facilities.
>

Have another toke, Tom.

[donquijote1954]

On Aug 1, 8:44 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
<sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "donquijote1954" who? wrote:
> > On Jul 31, 1:17 am, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
> >> I like to read posts by such as Don Quijote. He is pure and I am not. Yea, I
> >> KNOW what scoundrels all the rest of you are and I treat you accordingly.
> >> Unfortunately, in the process, I become as bad as any of you.
>
> >> But Don Quijote presses on pure and innocent and occasionally quite naive.
> >> He is like a breath of fresh air after all our vituperations. I am mostly in
> >> a rage every time I come on these freaking cycling newsgroups. I only want
> >> to kill all of you. Sometimes I think I am going crazy from the frustration
> >> of it all.
>
> >> But then I read a message from the Great Don Quijote and I realize that all
> >> is not lost after all. We need to become like children in order to go on
> >> living. I mourn my lost innocence. It was Tom Sherman of ARBR who soured me
> >> for Usenet. Aye, I hold him responsible for my dour disposition.
>
> > That's real nice of you, Great Ed. There's some real bad people here.
> > But there's no need to kill them. I mean, we don't need to kill them
> > when we can torture them. And besides, there's a bunch people waking
> > up to the need of bike lanes, bike paths and other facilities. We just
> > got to lead the way, "Sancho, let's go for it!"
>
> Who needs Usama bin Laden when we have promoters of second class
> citizenship for cyclists?
>
> What we need is SHOWERS and BIKE LOCKERS at work so cycle commuting is
> practical. I propose a tax on employee parking spaces that could be
> offset by adding REAL cyclist friendly facilities.
>

OK, OK, that makes sense. Nobody should say that bikers stink.

But we also need lanes for bikes only. Or if not we just restrict cars
like they did in London and Italy --for one day. No car no problem!

Italian cities ban cars from streets
Independent, The (London), Jan 29, 2007
ROME Cars and motor scooters were banned in Rome, Milan and other
Italian cities yesterday, leaving residents to walk, ride bikes or use
public transport. The ban, lasting most of the day, was put in place
to lower pollution levels. Other cities banning cars were Brescia,
Como and Varese in the Lombardy region. The ban is often implemented
during winter.

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

"Ozark Bicycle" wrote:
> On Aug 1, 7:44 pm, Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
>> "donquijote1954" who? wrote:
>>> On Jul 31, 1:17 am, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>>>> I like to read posts by such as Don Quijote. He is pure and I am not. Yea, I
>>>> KNOW what scoundrels all the rest of you are and I treat you accordingly.
>>>> Unfortunately, in the process, I become as bad as any of you.
>>>> But Don Quijote presses on pure and innocent and occasionally quite naive.
>>>> He is like a breath of fresh air after all our vituperations. I am mostly in
>>>> a rage every time I come on these freaking cycling newsgroups. I only want
>>>> to kill all of you. Sometimes I think I am going crazy from the frustration
>>>> of it all.
>>>> But then I read a message from the Great Don Quijote and I realize that all
>>>> is not lost after all. We need to become like children in order to go on
>>>> living. I mourn my lost innocence. It was Tom Sherman of ARBR who soured me
>>>> for Usenet. Aye, I hold him responsible for my dour disposition.
>>> That's real nice of you, Great Ed. There's some real bad people here.
>>> But there's no need to kill them. I mean, we don't need to kill them
>>> when we can torture them. And besides, there's a bunch people waking
>>> up to the need of bike lanes, bike paths and other facilities. We just
>>> got to lead the way, "Sancho, let's go for it!"
>> Who needs Usama bin Laden when we have promoters of second class
>> citizenship for cyclists?
>>
>> What we need is SHOWERS and BIKE LOCKERS at work so cycle commuting is
>> practical. I propose a tax on employee parking spaces that could be
>> offset by adding REAL cyclist friendly facilities.
>>
>
> Have another toke, Tom.

That reminds me that it is ridiculous that consumable ethanol beverages
can legally be made, advertised on television and sold, but cannabis is
illegal (in most countries). Ten of thousands of deaths and many more
incidents of violence are due to excess alcohol consumption, yet none
are attributable to cannabis use.

Hell, even too low THC content to get high industrial hemp can not be
legally grown in the U.S., even though George Washington was an advocate
of its cultivation, and the U.S. Constitution is written on hemp paper.
Instead, we cut down softwood forests and contaminate the environment
with sulfuric acid to make paper, instead of using annually renewable hemp.

Cycling content: I have two (2) bicycles and one (1) trike with
industrial hemp (Product of Canada) seat covers.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Keats]

"donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1186022053.090421.177180@q75g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
> On Aug 1, 7:29 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>> On Aug 1, 2:26 pm, donquijote1954 <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > dh wrote:
>> > > "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote in message
>> > >news:Wf-dnb4U9YZuWDPbnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@prairiewave.com...
>> > > >I like to read posts by such as Don Quijote. He is pure and I am
>> > > >not. Yea,
>> > > >I KNOW what scoundrels all the rest of you are and I treat you
>> > > >accordingly.
>> > > >Unfortunately, in the process, I become as bad as any of you.
>>
>> > > > But Don Quijote presses on pure and innocent and occasionally quite
>> > > > naive.
>> > > > He is like a breath of fresh air after all our vituperations. I am
>> > > > mostly
>> > > > in a rage every time I come on these freaking cycling newsgroups. I
>> > > > only
>> > > > want to kill all of you. Sometimes I think I am going crazy from
>> > > > the
>> > > > frustration of it all.
>>
>> > > > But then I read a message from the Great Don Quijote and I realize
>> > > > that
>> > > > all is not lost after all. We need to become like children in order
>> > > > to go
>> > > > on living. I mourn my lost innocence. It was Tom Sherman of ARBR
>> > > > who
>> > > > soured me for Usenet. Aye, I hold him responsible for my dour
>> > > > disposition.
>>
>> > > > Regards,
>>
>> > > > Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
>> > > > aka
>> > > > Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>>
>> > > Maybe you'd be happier in California?
>>
>> > In California they may have a barbarian governor, but at least he's
>> > open to change. His Hummer is hydrogen powered. Well, it could be
>> > worst.
>>
>> > Next thing we need is a president who rides a bike.
>>
>> "A" president who rides a bike is fine. Just not "The" president who
>> rides a bike.-
>
> After having a president by and for the SUVs, we need a chance for our
> humble bikes. Maybe we need to come up with a bicycle party, since
> they have a Big Oil party.
>

George Bush regularly rides a mountain bike for recreation and exercise.
And his modest personal home is a model of energy efficiency (unlike Al
Gore's four homes, for example)[Google it]. I think it safe to say that he
has spent more time on a bicycle and that his home is the greenest of any
candidate who has ever run for president of the USA since electricity and
home heating oil came into widespread use.

Perhaps you need to introduce your agenda from a different and more truthful
angle.

[still me]

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 19:34:13 -0700, donquijote1954
<nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote:

>After having a president by and for the SUVs, we need a chance for our
>humble bikes. Maybe we need to come up with a bicycle party, since
>they have a Big Oil party.

Somehow I think the oil party might exercise a bit more power.

[Keats]

"donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1186022964.039253.222200@k79g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
> On Aug 1, 8:44 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> "donquijote1954" who? wrote:
>> > On Jul 31, 1:17 am, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>> >> I like to read posts by such as Don Quijote. He is pure and I am not.
>> >> Yea, I
>> >> KNOW what scoundrels all the rest of you are and I treat you
>> >> accordingly.
>> >> Unfortunately, in the process, I become as bad as any of you.
>>
>> >> But Don Quijote presses on pure and innocent and occasionally quite
>> >> naive.
>> >> He is like a breath of fresh air after all our vituperations. I am
>> >> mostly in
>> >> a rage every time I come on these freaking cycling newsgroups. I only
>> >> want
>> >> to kill all of you. Sometimes I think I am going crazy from the
>> >> frustration
>> >> of it all.
>>
>> >> But then I read a message from the Great Don Quijote and I realize
>> >> that all
>> >> is not lost after all. We need to become like children in order to go
>> >> on
>> >> living. I mourn my lost innocence. It was Tom Sherman of ARBR who
>> >> soured me
>> >> for Usenet. Aye, I hold him responsible for my dour disposition.
>>
>> > That's real nice of you, Great Ed. There's some real bad people here.
>> > But there's no need to kill them. I mean, we don't need to kill them
>> > when we can torture them. And besides, there's a bunch people waking
>> > up to the need of bike lanes, bike paths and other facilities. We just
>> > got to lead the way, "Sancho, let's go for it!"
>>
>> Who needs Usama bin Laden when we have promoters of second class
>> citizenship for cyclists?
>>
>> What we need is SHOWERS and BIKE LOCKERS at work so cycle commuting is
>> practical. I propose a tax on employee parking spaces that could be
>> offset by adding REAL cyclist friendly facilities.
>>
>
> OK, OK, that makes sense. Nobody should say that bikers stink.
>
> But we also need lanes for bikes only. Or if not we just restrict cars
> like they did in London and Italy --for one day. No car no problem!
>
> Italian cities ban cars from streets
> Independent, The (London), Jan 29, 2007
> ROME Cars and motor scooters were banned in Rome, Milan and other
> Italian cities yesterday, leaving residents to walk, ride bikes or use
> public transport. The ban, lasting most of the day, was put in place
> to lower pollution levels. Other cities banning cars were Brescia,
> Como and Varese in the Lombardy region. The ban is often implemented
> during winter.
>
>

No offense intended (hehe) donquijote1954, but I think you've been smoking
some of Johnny Sunset's hemp bike seat cover.

What would you think about a stiff graduated luxury tax on bicycles costing
over $150.00 (US) and bicycle accessories to help pay for the things you
demand? Why should my eighty year old mother, who has trouble paying for
her prescription drugs, need to help pay for your shower and locker located
in a business somewhere?

As long as you're still toking on Johnny's bike seat cover think about
cyclists building their own cities with money they've raised themselves so
they could live and work in their own bicycling utopia?

[donquijote1954]

On Aug 1, 11:17 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
<sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Ozark Bicycle" wrote:
> > On Aug 1, 7:44 pm, Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
> >> "donquijote1954" who? wrote:
> >>> On Jul 31, 1:17 am, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
> >>>> I like to read posts by such as Don Quijote. He is pure and I am not. Yea, I
> >>>> KNOW what scoundrels all the rest of you are and I treat you accordingly.
> >>>> Unfortunately, in the process, I become as bad as any of you.
> >>>> But Don Quijote presses on pure and innocent and occasionally quite naive.
> >>>> He is like a breath of fresh air after all our vituperations. I am mostly in
> >>>> a rage every time I come on these freaking cycling newsgroups. I only want
> >>>> to kill all of you. Sometimes I think I am going crazy from the frustration
> >>>> of it all.
> >>>> But then I read a message from the Great Don Quijote and I realize that all
> >>>> is not lost after all. We need to become like children in order to go on
> >>>> living. I mourn my lost innocence. It was Tom Sherman of ARBR who soured me
> >>>> for Usenet. Aye, I hold him responsible for my dour disposition.
> >>> That's real nice of you, Great Ed. There's some real bad people here.
> >>> But there's no need to kill them. I mean, we don't need to kill them
> >>> when we can torture them. And besides, there's a bunch people waking
> >>> up to the need of bike lanes, bike paths and other facilities. We just
> >>> got to lead the way, "Sancho, let's go for it!"
> >> Who needs Usama bin Laden when we have promoters of second class
> >> citizenship for cyclists?
>
> >> What we need is SHOWERS and BIKE LOCKERS at work so cycle commuting is
> >> practical. I propose a tax on employee parking spaces that could be
> >> offset by adding REAL cyclist friendly facilities.
>
> > Have another toke, Tom.
>
> That reminds me that it is ridiculous that consumable ethanol beverages
> can legally be made, advertised on television and sold, but cannabis is
> illegal (in most countries). Ten of thousands of deaths and many more
> incidents of violence are due to excess alcohol consumption, yet none
> are attributable to cannabis use.
>
> Hell, even too low THC content to get high industrial hemp can not be
> legally grown in the U.S., even though George Washington was an advocate
> of its cultivation, and the U.S. Constitution is written on hemp paper.
> Instead, we cut down softwood forests and contaminate the environment
> with sulfuric acid to make paper, instead of using annually renewable hemp.
>
> Cycling content: I have two (2) bicycles and one (1) trike with
> industrial hemp (Product of Canada) seat covers.
>

Well, the revolution is not only taking care of bike lanes, but other
ways to pursuit happiness...

"While the prohibition of drugs has been largely ineffective and
costly (in money, prison overpopulation, crime), regulated
legalization --like that of Holland-- can be a better solution to both
addiction and crime."

See OUR MAN TO THE WHITE HOUSE
http://webspawner.com/users/elections2008

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:46b140d2$0$16353$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. .
> "Ozark Bicycle" wrote:
>> On Aug 1, 7:44 pm, Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
>>> "donquijote1954" who? wrote:
>>>> On Jul 31, 1:17 am, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>>>>> I like to read posts by such as Don Quijote. He is pure and I am not.
>>>>> Yea, I
>>>>> KNOW what scoundrels all the rest of you are and I treat you
>>>>> accordingly.
>>>>> Unfortunately, in the process, I become as bad as any of you.
>>>>> But Don Quijote presses on pure and innocent and occasionally quite
>>>>> naive.
>>>>> He is like a breath of fresh air after all our vituperations. I am
>>>>> mostly in
>>>>> a rage every time I come on these freaking cycling newsgroups. I only
>>>>> want
>>>>> to kill all of you. Sometimes I think I am going crazy from the
>>>>> frustration
>>>>> of it all.
>>>>> But then I read a message from the Great Don Quijote and I realize
>>>>> that all
>>>>> is not lost after all. We need to become like children in order to go
>>>>> on
>>>>> living. I mourn my lost innocence. It was Tom Sherman of ARBR who
>>>>> soured me
>>>>> for Usenet. Aye, I hold him responsible for my dour disposition.
>>>> That's real nice of you, Great Ed. There's some real bad people here.
>>>> But there's no need to kill them. I mean, we don't need to kill them
>>>> when we can torture them. And besides, there's a bunch people waking
>>>> up to the need of bike lanes, bike paths and other facilities. We just
>>>> got to lead the way, "Sancho, let's go for it!"
>>> Who needs Usama bin Laden when we have promoters of second class
>>> citizenship for cyclists?
>>>
>>> What we need is SHOWERS and BIKE LOCKERS at work so cycle commuting is
>>> practical. I propose a tax on employee parking spaces that could be
>>> offset by adding REAL cyclist friendly facilities.
>>>
>>
>> Have another toke, Tom.
>
> That reminds me that it is ridiculous that consumable ethanol beverages
> can legally be made, advertised on television and sold, but cannabis is
> illegal (in most countries). Ten of thousands of deaths and many more
> incidents of violence are due to excess alcohol consumption, yet none are
> attributable to cannabis use.

Hey, Tom, I could not even come on these freaking-cycling-newsgroups (all
one word) if I had not had my gallon of Livingston Red Rose Vino. My God, to
live sober is un-Irish!

> Hell, even too low THC content to get high industrial hemp can not be
> legally grown in the U.S., even though George Washington was an advocate
> of its cultivation, and the U.S. Constitution is written on hemp paper.
> Instead, we cut down softwood forests and contaminate the environment with
> sulfuric acid to make paper, instead of using annually renewable hemp.
>
> Cycling content: I have two (2) bicycles and one (1) trike with industrial
> hemp (Product of Canada) seat covers.

Screw it! Who gives a good god damn if everyone wants to get high. This
world is such a miserable place that there is something wrong with you if
you do not want to get high.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[donquijote1954]

On Aug 2, 9:25 am, "Keats" <ke...@nospam.com> wrote:
> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1186022053.090421.177180@q75g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 1, 7:29 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> >> On Aug 1, 2:26 pm, donquijote1954 <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > dh wrote:
> >> > > "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote in message
> >> > >news:Wf-dnb4U9YZuWDPbnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@prairiewave.com...
> >> > > >I like to read posts by such as Don Quijote. He is pure and I am
> >> > > >not. Yea,
> >> > > >I KNOW what scoundrels all the rest of you are and I treat you
> >> > > >accordingly.
> >> > > >Unfortunately, in the process, I become as bad as any of you.
>
> >> > > > But Don Quijote presses on pure and innocent and occasionally quite
> >> > > > naive.
> >> > > > He is like a breath of fresh air after all our vituperations. I am
> >> > > > mostly
> >> > > > in a rage every time I come on these freaking cycling newsgroups. I
> >> > > > only
> >> > > > want to kill all of you. Sometimes I think I am going crazy from
> >> > > > the
> >> > > > frustration of it all.
>
> >> > > > But then I read a message from the Great Don Quijote and I realize
> >> > > > that
> >> > > > all is not lost after all. We need to become like children in order
> >> > > > to go
> >> > > > on living. I mourn my lost innocence. It was Tom Sherman of ARBR
> >> > > > who
> >> > > > soured me for Usenet. Aye, I hold him responsible for my dour
> >> > > > disposition.
>
> >> > > > Regards,
>
> >> > > > Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> >> > > > aka
> >> > > > Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>
> >> > > Maybe you'd be happier in California?
>
> >> > In California they may have a barbarian governor, but at least he's
> >> > open to change. His Hummer is hydrogen powered. Well, it could be
> >> > worst.
>
> >> > Next thing we need is a president who rides a bike.
>
> >> "A" president who rides a bike is fine. Just not "The" president who
> >> rides a bike.-
>
> > After having a president by and for the SUVs, we need a chance for our
> > humble bikes. Maybe we need to come up with a bicycle party, since
> > they have a Big Oil party.
>
> George Bush regularly rides a mountain bike for recreation and exercise.
> And his modest personal home is a model of energy efficiency (unlike Al
> Gore's four homes, for example)[Google it]. I think it safe to say that he
> has spent more time on a bicycle and that his home is the greenest of any
> candidate who has ever run for president of the USA since electricity and
> home heating oil came into widespread use.
>
> Perhaps you need to introduce your agenda from a different and more truthful
> angle.-

Maybe he's having a good time riding bike between cocktail and
cocktail, but most American don't feel any safer riding a bike than
the troops he sent to Iraq.

[Edward Dolan]

"Keats" <keats@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:vMKdnTC3kuqsRizbnZ2dnUVZ_oCvnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1186022053.090421.177180@q75g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
[...]
>> After having a president by and for the SUVs, we need a chance for our
>> humble bikes. Maybe we need to come up with a bicycle party, since
>> they have a Big Oil party.
>>
>
> George Bush regularly rides a mountain bike for recreation and exercise.
> And his modest personal home is a model of energy efficiency (unlike Al
> Gore's four homes, for example)[Google it]. I think it safe to say that
> he has spent more time on a bicycle and that his home is the greenest of
> any candidate who has ever run for president of the USA since electricity
> and home heating oil came into widespread use.
>
> Perhaps you need to introduce your agenda from a different and more
> truthful angle.

Tom Keats of Vancouver, British Columbia is known far and wide on these
cycling newsgroups as a liberal. He is a working stiff on the docks of
Vancouver, yet here he is being fair. I have enormous respect for anyone who
is fair. I may have to evaluate Mr. Keats if he keeps this up.

By the way, I agree with everything he says above. My God, it always scares
me half to death whenever I agree with my worst enemies!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Ed_Zep]

> George Bush regularly rides a mountain bike for recreation and exercise.
> And his modest personal home is a model of energy efficiency (unlike Al
> Gore's four homes, for example)[Google it]. I think it safe to say that he
> has spent more time on a bicycle and that his home is the greenest of any
> candidate who has ever run for president of the USA since electricity and
> home heating oil came into widespread use.
>
> Perhaps you need to introduce your agenda from a different and more truthful
> angle.- Hide quoted text -
>
Your logic would be perfect if his family hadn't made huge profits
from oil, he hadn't rejected Kyoto, hadn't been in denial about
climate change and oh yes, hadn't invaded Iraq for the, er, oil.

Apart from that...

[donquijote1954]

On Aug 2, 9:58 am, "Keats" <ke...@nospam.com> wrote:
> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1186022964.039253.222200@k79g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 1, 8:44 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
> > <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> "donquijote1954" who? wrote:
> >> > On Jul 31, 1:17 am, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
> >> >> I like to read posts by such as Don Quijote. He is pure and I am not.
> >> >> Yea, I
> >> >> KNOW what scoundrels all the rest of you are and I treat you
> >> >> accordingly.
> >> >> Unfortunately, in the process, I become as bad as any of you.
>
> >> >> But Don Quijote presses on pure and innocent and occasionally quite
> >> >> naive.
> >> >> He is like a breath of fresh air after all our vituperations. I am
> >> >> mostly in
> >> >> a rage every time I come on these freaking cycling newsgroups. I only
> >> >> want
> >> >> to kill all of you. Sometimes I think I am going crazy from the
> >> >> frustration
> >> >> of it all.
>
> >> >> But then I read a message from the Great Don Quijote and I realize
> >> >> that all
> >> >> is not lost after all. We need to become like children in order to go
> >> >> on
> >> >> living. I mourn my lost innocence. It was Tom Sherman of ARBR who
> >> >> soured me
> >> >> for Usenet. Aye, I hold him responsible for my dour disposition.
>
> >> > That's real nice of you, Great Ed. There's some real bad people here.
> >> > But there's no need to kill them. I mean, we don't need to kill them
> >> > when we can torture them. And besides, there's a bunch people waking
> >> > up to the need of bike lanes, bike paths and other facilities. We just
> >> > got to lead the way, "Sancho, let's go for it!"
>
> >> Who needs Usama bin Laden when we have promoters of second class
> >> citizenship for cyclists?
>
> >> What we need is SHOWERS and BIKE LOCKERS at work so cycle commuting is
> >> practical. I propose a tax on employee parking spaces that could be
> >> offset by adding REAL cyclist friendly facilities.
>
> > OK, OK, that makes sense. Nobody should say that bikers stink.
>
> > But we also need lanes for bikes only. Or if not we just restrict cars
> > like they did in London and Italy --for one day. No car no problem!
>
> > Italian cities ban cars from streets
> > Independent, The (London), Jan 29, 2007
> > ROME Cars and motor scooters were banned in Rome, Milan and other
> > Italian cities yesterday, leaving residents to walk, ride bikes or use
> > public transport. The ban, lasting most of the day, was put in place
> > to lower pollution levels. Other cities banning cars were Brescia,
> > Como and Varese in the Lombardy region. The ban is often implemented
> > during winter.
>
> No offense intended (hehe) donquijote1954, but I think you've been smoking
> some of Johnny Sunset's hemp bike seat cover.
>
> What would you think about a stiff graduated luxury tax on bicycles costing
> over $150.00 (US) and bicycle accessories to help pay for the things you
> demand? Why should my eighty year old mother, who has trouble paying for
> her prescription drugs, need to help pay for your shower and locker located
> in a business somewhere?
>
> As long as you're still toking on Johnny's bike seat cover think about
> cyclists building their own cities with money they've raised themselves so
> they could live and work in their own bicycling utopia?-

And WHO you think is paying that OIL WAR in Iraq? We would only need
1% of that and the rest you can spend in healthcare and other luxuries
(you call them luxuries, right?)

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

Keats WHO? wrote:
> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1186022964.039253.222200@k79g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
>> On Aug 1, 8:44 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman" wrote:

Why does Google add the back-slashes adjacent to the quote marks?

Why doesn't Google honor the signature separator?

The world wonders.

>>> Who needs Usama bin Laden when we have promoters of second class
>>> citizenship for cyclists?
>>>
>>> What we need is SHOWERS and BIKE LOCKERS at work so cycle commuting is
>>> practical. I propose a tax on employee parking spaces that could be
>>> offset by adding REAL cyclist friendly facilities.
>>>
>> OK, OK, that makes sense. Nobody should say that bikers stink.
>>
>> But we also need lanes for bikes only. Or if not we just restrict cars
>> like they did in London and Italy --for one day. No car no problem!
>>
>> Italian cities ban cars from streets
>> Independent, The (London), Jan 29, 2007
>> ROME Cars and motor scooters were banned in Rome, Milan and other
>> Italian cities yesterday, leaving residents to walk, ride bikes or use
>> public transport. The ban, lasting most of the day, was put in place
>> to lower pollution levels. Other cities banning cars were Brescia,
>> Como and Varese in the Lombardy region. The ban is often implemented
>> during winter.
>>
>>
>
> No offense intended (hehe) donquijote1954, but I think you've been smoking
> some of Johnny Sunset's hemp bike seat cover.

Nope, all three are intact.

> What would you think about a stiff graduated luxury tax on bicycles costing
> over $150.00 (US) and bicycle accessories to help pay for the things you
> demand? Why should my eighty year old mother, who has trouble paying for
> her prescription drugs, need to help pay for your shower and locker located
> in a business somewhere?...

The railroads were given free land by the federal government, barges and
riverboats do not pay the full costs of locks and dredging, airports and
air traffic control are subsided by the federal government, fuel taxes,
licensing fees and tolls do not pay the full cost of the roadways (in
the U.S.). Why should cyclists be singled out, especially where there is
an externality BENEFIT to society if more people commute by bicycle?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Keats]

"donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1186063284.497820.112140@o61g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
> On Aug 2, 9:25 am, "Keats" <ke...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> > After having a president by and for the SUVs, we need a chance for our
>> > humble bikes. Maybe we need to come up with a bicycle party, since
>> > they have a Big Oil party.
>>
>> George Bush regularly rides a mountain bike for recreation and exercise.
>> And his modest personal home is a model of energy efficiency (unlike Al
>> Gore's four homes, for example)[Google it]. I think it safe to say that
>> he
>> has spent more time on a bicycle and that his home is the greenest of any
>> candidate who has ever run for president of the USA since electricity and
>> home heating oil came into widespread use.
>>
>> Perhaps you need to introduce your agenda from a different and more
>> truthful
>> angle.-
>
> Maybe he's having a good time riding bike between cocktail and
> cocktail, but most American don't feel any safer riding a bike than
> the troops he sent to Iraq.
>

Something tells me you aren't exactly all squared away. Were you whacked in
the head by a windmill blade somewhere along the line?

[donquijote1954]

On Aug 2, 10:12 am, still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 19:34:13 -0700, donquijote1954
>
> <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >After having a president by and for the SUVs, we need a chance for our
> >humble bikes. Maybe we need to come up with a bicycle party, since
> >they have a Big Oil party.
>
> Somehow I think the oil party might exercise a bit more power.

Yes, in a system where money talks and bull****... But the ratio
shouldn't be greater than 100 to 1.

[datakoll]

On Aug 2, 11:42 am, "Keats" <ke...@nospam.com> wrote:
> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1186063284.497820.112140@o61g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 2, 9:25 am, "Keats" <ke...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >> > After having a president by and for the SUVs, we need a chance for our
> >> > humble bikes. Maybe we need to come up with a bicycle party, since
> >> > they have a Big Oil party.
>
> >> George Bush regularly rides a mountain bike for recreation and exercise.
> >> And his modest personal home is a model of energy efficiency (unlike Al
> >> Gore's four homes, for example)[Google it]. I think it safe to say that
> >> he
> >> has spent more time on a bicycle and that his home is the greenest of any
> >> candidate who has ever run for president of the USA since electricity and
> >> home heating oil came into widespread use.
>
> >> Perhaps you need to introduce your agenda from a different and more
> >> truthful
> >> angle.-
>
> > Maybe he's having a good time riding bike between cocktail and
> > cocktail, but most American don't feel any safer riding a bike than
> > the troops he sent to Iraq.
>
> Something tells me you aren't exactly all squared away. Were you whacked in
> the head by a windmill blade somewhere along the line?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

its beyond comprehension: today he said ima told wera not gonna print
money. 2-3 hours later they started printing money. i usta think he
was joking, today i believe they set him out on the lawn and set him
on fire.

[Keats]

"donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1186084947.420552.220170@j4g2000prf.googlegro ups.com...
> And WHO you think is paying that OIL WAR in Iraq? >We would only need
> 1% of that and the rest you can spend in healthcare and other luxuries
> (you call them luxuries, right?)
>

What are you trying to say? How much of Johnny Sunset's hemp seat have you
smoked already today?
This could turn into a HEMP WAR if you aren't careful.

[still me]

On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 20:06:41 -0000, donquijote1954
<nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >After having a president by and for the SUVs, we need a chance for our
>> >humble bikes. Maybe we need to come up with a bicycle party, since
>> >they have a Big Oil party.
>>
>> Somehow I think the oil party might exercise a bit more power.
>
>Yes, in a system where money talks and bull****... But the ratio
>shouldn't be greater than 100 to 1.

I don't think the bicycle party could rally even the money for a bike
path, let alone a $400b war.

[donquijote1954]

On Aug 2, 5:18 pm, "Keats" <ke...@nospam.com> wrote:
> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1186084947.420552.220170@j4g2000prf.googlegro ups.com...
>
> > And WHO you think is paying that OIL WAR in Iraq? >We would only need
> > 1% of that and the rest you can spend in healthcare and other luxuries
> > (you call them luxuries, right?)
>
> What are you trying to say? How much of Johnny Sunset's hemp seat have you
> smoked already today?
> This could turn into a HEMP WAR if you aren't careful.

Hemp war? No, no and no. We got to MAKE LOVE NOT WAR. Well hemp leads
no love, right?

(Once upon the time in the land of predators the little animals had to
run for their lives. Well, it's not fair because the world needs to
evolve --and the stupid beasts must become vegetarian)

I bet you know a character like this lion...

THE LAW OF THE JUNGLE
Once upon a time, in the deep jungle, lived a Lion and a Monkey... One
day the Monkey, tired of the Lion always taking the LION'S SHARE, and
seeing that such injustice represented a danger to all, demanded
JUSTICE... The Lion, yawning and stretching, said, "You would have to
have paws and sharp teeth..." Then the Monkey, who was very clever,
devised a plan: He would go to the costume store, and look like a
lion...

When the HUNGRY LION saw him, noticing that the new lion wasn't a
match for him, and fearing COMPETITION, killed him on the spot --
before the indifferent look of the little animals of the jungle... And
that's how the Law of the Jungle was re-established one more time...
(NOTE: Other monkeys survived him...)

***

But to tell you the truth, this monkey wasn't very clever in dressing
like a lion. The real smart monkey knows better and would do this...

(Based on the slogan:
MAKE LOVE, NOT WAR?
"Make love, not war," was not just a protest against the indifference
and lack of humaneness in Vietnam; it was also a positive statement
that love between parent and child, teacher and pupil, fiance and
fiancee, and husband and wife is an activity we should try to pursue
in the house when work is not necessary. It is the one real source of
truth, beauty, and salvation in a community where deceit, corruption,
and impersonality seem to be rampant. -Jerome Kagan)

The smart monkey shows his cleverness...

And what better way to make love than to give the banana to the
roaring lion? The monkey knows that the lion is more powerful than
him, and knows he better use his own weapons, so he decides to be
funny, that being his natural gift. The story goes like this: The
Hungry Lion roars: "Monkey, I'm made to eat meat, so you better come
down right now." And the monkey replies very cool: "HUNGRY? YOU CAN
EAT MY BANANA!"

T-SHIRTS TO CHANGE THE WORLD (while some of these products may not
seem related to a revolution, they emphasize the slogan above: MAKE
LOVE, NOT WAR)

http://cafepress.com/peacebanana

[donquijote1954]

On Aug 2, 7:37 pm, still me <wheeled...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 20:06:41 -0000, donquijote1954
>
> <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >After having a president by and for the SUVs, we need a chance for our
> >> >humble bikes. Maybe we need to come up with a bicycle party, since
> >> >they have a Big Oil party.
>
> >> Somehow I think the oil party might exercise a bit more power.
>
> >Yes, in a system where money talks and bull****... But the ratio
> >shouldn't be greater than 100 to 1.
>
> I don't think the bicycle party could rally even the money for a bike
> path, let alone a $400b war.

That's why we need the bicycle party.

[Keats]

"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:46b278db$0$16288$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. .
> Keats WHO? wrote:
>> What would you think about a stiff graduated luxury tax on bicycles
>> costing over $150.00 (US) and bicycle accessories to help pay for the
>> things you demand? Why should my eighty year old mother, who has trouble
>> paying for her prescription drugs, need to help pay for your shower and
>> locker located in a business somewhere?...
>
> The railroads were given free land by the federal government, barges and
> riverboats do not pay the full costs of locks and dredging, airports and
> air traffic control are subsided by the federal government, fuel taxes,
> licensing fees and tolls do not pay the full cost of the roadways (in the
> U.S.). Why should cyclists be singled out, especially where there is an
> externality BENEFIT to society if more people commute by bicycle?
>
> --

I take it you don't like the idea of the wealthiest Americans who possess
multiple bicycles costing $3000, $5,000, and even $7,000.00 (USA) and up
having to pay a luxury tax on these bikes to offset a small portion of the
cost of all the freebies you want. Yeah, I know the routine, once upon a
time someone got something from the government without paying for it so the
things you want should be paid for by someone else too. And so it goes.

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:46b278db$0$16288$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. .
[...]
> The railroads were given free land by the federal government, barges and
> riverboats do not pay the full costs of locks and dredging, airports and
> air traffic control are subsided by the federal government, fuel taxes,
> licensing fees and tolls do not pay the full cost of the roadways (in the
> U.S.). Why should cyclists be singled out, especially where there is an
> externality BENEFIT to society if more people commute by bicycle?

Mr. Sherman is quite right about this. In my long lost youth I was once a
public librarian. Most folks have no use for a public library whatsoever,
but it has been determined that society as a whole will benefit from such an
institution. And so everyone ends up paying for it whether they use it or
not.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

Keats wrote:
> "Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:46b278db$0$16288$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. .
>> Keats WHO? wrote:
>>> What would you think about a stiff graduated luxury tax on bicycles
>>> costing over $150.00 (US) and bicycle accessories to help pay for the
>>> things you demand? Why should my eighty year old mother, who has trouble
>>> paying for her prescription drugs, need to help pay for your shower and
>>> locker located in a business somewhere?...
>> The railroads were given free land by the federal government, barges and
>> riverboats do not pay the full costs of locks and dredging, airports and
>> air traffic control are subsided by the federal government, fuel taxes,
>> licensing fees and tolls do not pay the full cost of the roadways (in the
>> U.S.). Why should cyclists be singled out, especially where there is an
>> externality BENEFIT to society if more people commute by bicycle?
>>
>> --
>
> I take it you don't like the idea of the wealthiest Americans who possess
> multiple bicycles costing $3000, $5,000, and even $7,000.00 (USA) and up
> having to pay a luxury tax on these bikes to offset a small portion of the
> cost of all the freebies you want. Yeah, I know the routine, once upon a
> time someone got something from the government without paying for it so the
> things you want should be paid for by someone else too. And so it goes.

The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other
countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to encourage
behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common policy
tool.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[donquijote1954]

On Aug 2, 10:48 pm, "Keats" <ke...@nospam.com> wrote:
> "Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:46b278db$0$16288$88260bb3@free.teranew s.com...
>
> > Keats WHO? wrote:
> >> What would you think about a stiff graduated luxury tax on bicycles
> >> costing over $150.00 (US) and bicycle accessories to help pay for the
> >> things you demand? Why should my eighty year old mother, who has trouble
> >> paying for her prescription drugs, need to help pay for your shower and
> >> locker located in a business somewhere?...
>
> > The railroads were given free land by the federal government, barges and
> > riverboats do not pay the full costs of locks and dredging, airports and
> > air traffic control are subsided by the federal government, fuel taxes,
> > licensing fees and tolls do not pay the full cost of the roadways (in the
> > U.S.). Why should cyclists be singled out, especially where there is an
> > externality BENEFIT to society if more people commute by bicycle?
>
> > --
>
> I take it you don't like the idea of the wealthiest Americans who possess
> multiple bicycles costing $3000, $5,000, and even $7,000.00 (USA) and up
> having to pay a luxury tax on these bikes to offset a small portion of the
> cost of all the freebies you want. Yeah, I know the routine, once upon a
> time someone got something from the government without paying for it so the
> things you want should be paid for by someone else too. And so it goes.

That bicycling remains an elitist hobby is the damned fault of a
system that doesn't know how to put together democracy and bicycles.
That we see so many SUVs out there, shows that we live in an elitist
society, where those at the bottom are f...d.

We need someone like...

"As mayor of Bogota, Colombia, Enrique Penalosa accomplished
remarkable changes of monumental proportions for the people of his
country in just three years.

Peñalosa changed the way Bogota treated its non-driving citizens by
restricting automobile use and instituting a bus rapid transit system
which now carries a 1/2 million residents daily. Among other
improvements: he widened and rebuilt sidewalks, created grand public
spaces, and implemented over one hundred miles of bicycle paths."

18 Comments (leave a comment)
"Enrique Penalosa is GOD!"

Comment by James L. - February 27, 2007 @ 11:54 pm | Link

"OMG! Please clone Mr. Penalosa and send the copies everywhere!"

Comment by pb - February 28, 2007 @ 3:08 pm | Link

"Viva Senor Penalosa. He truly is a visionary, and one who has
actually seen his dreams become reality!"

Comment by Steve K. - March 1, 2007 @ 11:13 pm | Link

"Bring Mr. Penalosa to Cleveland please! Seriously, how can you get a
hold off him? Is there any way?"

Comment by GaryE - March 2, 2007 @ 3:19 am | Link

"Another great example of the power of possibility and creativity.
Just because it had never been done before doesn't mean it couldn't be
done!"

Comment by Clarissa - March 2, 2007 @ 3:04 pm | Link

http://www.streetfilms.org/archives/interview-with-enrique-penalosa-long/

[Jeff Grippe]

> The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other
> countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to encourage
> behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common policy
> tool.
>

Wow! A real discussion with substance.

Part of the problem is that taxes (and tax breaks) are used for too many
things.

Some taxes are obviously used to fund the basic operations of government and
the services it provides.

Other taxes are used to specifically discourage behavior such as cigarette.

Some tax breaks are used to encourage behavior.

The problem is that all of these things get jumbled up. The bean counters
come to rely on the revenue generated by the "sin taxes" and want to keep
the breaks to a minimum so that they can balance the books. You can say
something like "We are going to tax all X's in order to provide Y's" (cars
for bike lanes, etc.) but the X's are going to complain and the Y's are
going to view what they've got as an entitlement. You will get the X lobby
fighting for the repeal of the tax and the Y lobby insisting that their
service must continue to be provided. The people whose job it is to make the
budge work try to please as many as possible (being part of a political
system) but ultimately the stronger lobby wins.

As liberal as I am, I can see some of the arguements for smaller government.
Government is a grossly inefficient thing. The problem is that there are
gaps a mile wide in what the free market will provide in terms of basic
human services. If food, clothing, shelter, education, and health care are
basic human rights, then the free market will not, of its own accord,
provide a basic level of these things to everyone. Why should it?
Corporations are supposed to make profits not provide basic human services.
It took workers organizing for companies to provide good working conditions,
shorter hours, higher pay, benefits, etc.

The revolution isn't coming, however. So the system that we've got is one in
which those who can push hardest might be able to get what they want. You
want lockers and showers? Find a way to deliver a large block of votes and
you might get them. Or find a philanthropist who believes in lockers and
showers and get a foundation started. Be careful, however. Foundations can
be almost as inefficient as governments.

Jeff

[donquijote1954]

On Aug 2, 10:56 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
<sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Keats wrote:
> > "Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:46b278db$0$16288$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. .
> >> Keats WHO? wrote:
> >>> What would you think about a stiff graduated luxury tax on bicycles
> >>> costing over $150.00 (US) and bicycle accessories to help pay for the
> >>> things you demand? Why should my eighty year old mother, who has trouble
> >>> paying for her prescription drugs, need to help pay for your shower and
> >>> locker located in a business somewhere?...
> >> The railroads were given free land by the federal government, barges and
> >> riverboats do not pay the full costs of locks and dredging, airports and
> >> air traffic control are subsided by the federal government, fuel taxes,
> >> licensing fees and tolls do not pay the full cost of the roadways (in the
> >> U.S.). Why should cyclists be singled out, especially where there is an
> >> externality BENEFIT to society if more people commute by bicycle?
>
> >> --
>
> > I take it you don't like the idea of the wealthiest Americans who possess
> > multiple bicycles costing $3000, $5,000, and even $7,000.00 (USA) and up
> > having to pay a luxury tax on these bikes to offset a small portion of the
> > cost of all the freebies you want. Yeah, I know the routine, once upon a
> > time someone got something from the government without paying for it so the
> > things you want should be paid for by someone else too. And so it goes.
>
> The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other
> countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to encourage
> behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common policy
> tool.

The use it here too! Just that they give tax breaks and all kinds of
facilities to those at the top. Have you noticed that 99% fo the bike
paths are concentrated where the big people live?

[Keats]

"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com> wrote in message
news:13b5tu7hqurqabc@news.supernews.com...
>> The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other
>> countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to encourage
>> behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common policy
>> tool.
>>
>
> Wow! A real discussion with substance.
>
> Part of the problem is that taxes (and tax breaks) are used for too many
> things.
>
> Some taxes are obviously used to fund the basic operations of government
> and the services it provides.
>
> Other taxes are used to specifically discourage behavior such as
> cigarette.
>
> Some tax breaks are used to encourage behavior.
>
> The problem is that all of these things get jumbled up. The bean counters
> come to rely on the revenue generated by the "sin taxes" and want to keep
> the breaks to a minimum so that they can balance the books. You can say
> something like "We are going to tax all X's in order to provide Y's" (cars
> for bike lanes, etc.) but the X's are going to complain and the Y's are
> going to view what they've got as an entitlement. You will get the X lobby
> fighting for the repeal of the tax and the Y lobby insisting that their
> service must continue to be provided. The people whose job it is to make
> the budge work try to please as many as possible (being part of a
> political system) but ultimately the stronger lobby wins.
>
> As liberal as I am, I can see some of the arguements for smaller
> government. Government is a grossly inefficient thing. The problem is that
> there are gaps a mile wide in what the free market will provide in terms
> of basic human services. If food, clothing, shelter, education, and health
> care are basic human rights, then the free market will not, of its own
> accord, provide a basic level of these things to everyone. Why should it?
> Corporations are supposed to make profits not provide basic human
> services. It took workers organizing for companies to provide good working
> conditions, shorter hours, higher pay, benefits, etc.
>
> The revolution isn't coming, however. So the system that we've got is one
> in which those who can push hardest might be able to get what they want.
> You want lockers and showers? Find a way to deliver a large block of votes
> and you might get them. Or find a philanthropist who believes in lockers
> and showers and get a foundation started. Be careful, however. Foundations
> can be almost as inefficient as governments.
>
> Jeff
>

The idea of entitlements knows no limits. Therefore the inefficient use of
tax money knows no practical limits other than the amount of money in the
government coffers at any given time. Once citizens discovered they could
vote themselves money out of the public weal entitlements were off and
running to the point that someone who doesn't reach the work place in an air
conditioned car wants the government to force the installation of a shower
and locker on private property for their private use. The cost is not only
the actual cost, but is also the cost of lost opportunity for a better and
more efficient use of this money.

How did anyone on this planet survive for those millions of years before the
invention of under arm deodorant and automobile air conditioners? Wouldn't
they too seem to be a basic human right, Jeff?

[donquijote1954]

On Aug 3, 5:39 am, "Jeff Grippe" <j...@door7.com> wrote:
> > The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other
> > countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to encourage
> > behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common policy
> > tool.
>
> Wow! A real discussion with substance.
>
> Part of the problem is that taxes (and tax breaks) are used for too many
> things.
>
> Some taxes are obviously used to fund the basic operations of government and
> the services it provides.
>
> Other taxes are used to specifically discourage behavior such as cigarette.
>
> Some tax breaks are used to encourage behavior.
>
> The problem is that all of these things get jumbled up. The bean counters
> come to rely on the revenue generated by the "sin taxes" and want to keep
> the breaks to a minimum so that they can balance the books.

But most civilized countries consider wasting gas a sin, not a sign of
patriotism. Maybe they believe that being dependent on foreign oil is
a dangerous idea, thus they tax gas to pay for public transportation
and bike facilities... Pretty stupid, aren't they?

> The revolution isn't coming, however.

Sorry, I thought it was coming soon...

http://atom.smasher.org/streetparty/?l1=Coming+Soon%3A&l2=the&l3=Banana+Revolution%21&l4=

Well, maybe before Armageddon anyway. ;)

[Jeff Grippe]

"Keats" <keats@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uLKdnT35efPfiy7bnZ2dnUVZ_sCtnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
> "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com> wrote in message
> news:13b5tu7hqurqabc@news.supernews.com...
>>> The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other
>>> countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to encourage
>>> behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common policy
>>> tool.
>>>
>>
>> Wow! A real discussion with substance.
>>
>> Part of the problem is that taxes (and tax breaks) are used for too many
>> things.
>>
>> Some taxes are obviously used to fund the basic operations of government
>> and the services it provides.
>>
>> Other taxes are used to specifically discourage behavior such as
>> cigarette.
>>
>> Some tax breaks are used to encourage behavior.
>>
>> The problem is that all of these things get jumbled up. The bean counters
>> come to rely on the revenue generated by the "sin taxes" and want to keep
>> the breaks to a minimum so that they can balance the books. You can say
>> something like "We are going to tax all X's in order to provide Y's"
>> (cars for bike lanes, etc.) but the X's are going to complain and the Y's
>> are going to view what they've got as an entitlement. You will get the X
>> lobby fighting for the repeal of the tax and the Y lobby insisting that
>> their service must continue to be provided. The people whose job it is to
>> make the budge work try to please as many as possible (being part of a
>> political system) but ultimately the stronger lobby wins.
>>
>> As liberal as I am, I can see some of the arguements for smaller
>> government. Government is a grossly inefficient thing. The problem is
>> that there are gaps a mile wide in what the free market will provide in
>> terms of basic human services. If food, clothing, shelter, education, and
>> health care are basic human rights, then the free market will not, of its
>> own accord, provide a basic level of these things to everyone. Why should
>> it? Corporations are supposed to make profits not provide basic human
>> services. It took workers organizing for companies to provide good
>> working conditions, shorter hours, higher pay, benefits, etc.
>>
>> The revolution isn't coming, however. So the system that we've got is one
>> in which those who can push hardest might be able to get what they want.
>> You want lockers and showers? Find a way to deliver a large block of
>> votes and you might get them. Or find a philanthropist who believes in
>> lockers and showers and get a foundation started. Be careful, however.
>> Foundations can be almost as inefficient as governments.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>
> The idea of entitlements knows no limits. Therefore the inefficient use
> of tax money knows no practical limits other than the amount of money in
> the government coffers at any given time. Once citizens discovered they
> could vote themselves money out of the public weal entitlements were off
> and running to the point that someone who doesn't reach the work place in
> an air conditioned car wants the government to force the installation of a
> shower and locker on private property for their private use. The cost is
> not only the actual cost, but is also the cost of lost opportunity for a
> better and more efficient use of this money.
>
> How did anyone on this planet survive for those millions of years before
> the invention of under arm deodorant and automobile air conditioners?
> Wouldn't they too seem to be a basic human right, Jeff?
>

Here's the problem with this discussion. We can talk fantasy or reality.
Fantasy is always great because it bypasses reality. So here goes:

Fantasy:

Define what are basic human rights (food, shelter, etc) and what functions
we think are best handled by the government (waging war, international
affairs, etc.). Everything else is left to the free market. I love this idea
but it is alas a fantasy.

Reality:

We are part of a system that is essentially political. The system attempts
to provide what those in power have become convinced are basic human rights
and affairs of govermment. The system also allows a free market unless those
in power decide that certain markets should be entirely free. Laws can even
be amended on a one time basis such as Disney getting a copyright extension
a few years back.

In addition to politics, the system also has institutions that are
"entrenched" and have a life of their own. While this is still politics, the
root run deep.

If you can coax the political will for lockers and showers, and maintain it,
then lockers and showers you shall have.

Here in NYC there is a plan in place to have bike lanes that run through all
five boroughs.

In White Plains, where I live, they couldn't get the votes for bike lanes.
The compromise was putting up signs that say "Bike Route". Some of these
signs are in the absolute worst place to cycle. I was on the "Bike Route"
when I got hit and sustained an injury which essentially ended my cycling.

[donquijote1954]

On Aug 3, 7:49 am, "Keats" <ke...@nospam.com> wrote:

> How did anyone on this planet survive for those millions of years before the
> invention of under arm deodorant and automobile air conditioners? Wouldn't
> they too seem to be a basic human right, Jeff?-

I don't know about those, but the right to ride a bike in safety
should be a human right. Or we want the bicycle people to go out on
the road and paint bike lanes, install bike racks at shops and showers
at work? It would be funny...

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

Keats WHO? wrote:
> "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com> wrote in message
> news:13b5tu7hqurqabc@news.supernews.com...
>>> The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other
>>> countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to encourage
>>> behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common policy
>>> tool.
>>>
>> Wow! A real discussion with substance.
>>
>> Part of the problem is that taxes (and tax breaks) are used for too many
>> things.
>>
>> Some taxes are obviously used to fund the basic operations of government
>> and the services it provides.
>>
>> Other taxes are used to specifically discourage behavior such as
>> cigarette.
>>
>> Some tax breaks are used to encourage behavior.
>>
>> The problem is that all of these things get jumbled up. The bean counters
>> come to rely on the revenue generated by the "sin taxes" and want to keep
>> the breaks to a minimum so that they can balance the books. You can say
>> something like "We are going to tax all X's in order to provide Y's" (cars
>> for bike lanes, etc.) but the X's are going to complain and the Y's are
>> going to view what they've got as an entitlement. You will get the X lobby
>> fighting for the repeal of the tax and the Y lobby insisting that their
>> service must continue to be provided. The people whose job it is to make
>> the budge work try to please as many as possible (being part of a
>> political system) but ultimately the stronger lobby wins.
>>
>> As liberal as I am, I can see some of the arguements for smaller
>> government. Government is a grossly inefficient thing. The problem is that
>> there are gaps a mile wide in what the free market will provide in terms
>> of basic human services. If food, clothing, shelter, education, and health
>> care are basic human rights, then the free market will not, of its own
>> accord, provide a basic level of these things to everyone. Why should it?
>> Corporations are supposed to make profits not provide basic human
>> services. It took workers organizing for companies to provide good working
>> conditions, shorter hours, higher pay, benefits, etc.
>>
>> The revolution isn't coming, however. So the system that we've got is one
>> in which those who can push hardest might be able to get what they want.
>> You want lockers and showers? Find a way to deliver a large block of votes
>> and you might get them. Or find a philanthropist who believes in lockers
>> and showers and get a foundation started. Be careful, however. Foundations
>> can be almost as inefficient as governments.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>
> The idea of entitlements knows no limits. Therefore the inefficient use of
> tax money knows no practical limits other than the amount of money in the
> government coffers at any given time. Once citizens discovered they could
> vote themselves money out of the public weal entitlements were off and
> running to the point that someone who doesn't reach the work place in an air
> conditioned car wants the government to force the installation of a shower
> and locker on private property for their private use. The cost is not only
> the actual cost, but is also the cost of lost opportunity for a better and
> more efficient use of this money.

And the better use of tax money is subsidizing NON-SUSTAINABLE,
ENVIRONMENTALLY DEGRADING, CONGESTING CAUSING, individual fossil-fuel
powered transport? SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESH!!!!!!!

Not to mention that showers and bicycle lockers are MUCH LESS EXPENSIVE
than all the fossil-fuel powered subsidies (including the bill to come
for $2,000,000,000,000.00 for the adventure in Mess-O-Potamia), to which
we can add the costs of environmental damage.

By the way, since I first brought up the idea, I own an air-conditioned
automobile and use it for commuting. HAH! However; I wish I could afford
to live close enough to work to cycle commute and had a shower there.

> How did anyone on this planet survive for those millions of years before the
> invention of under arm deodorant and automobile air conditioners? Wouldn't
> they too seem to be a basic human right, Jeff?

Life in those times, to borrow a phrase from Hobbes, was poor, nasty,
brutish, and short. We can do better.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[mark@drumbent.com]

On Aug 3, 7:49 am, "Keats" <ke...@nospam.com> wrote:

(snip)

> How did anyone on this planet survive for those millions of years before the
> invention of under arm deodorant and automobile air conditioners?

So THAT'S why the dinosaurs died out...

Mark

[Keats]

"donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1186152217.928154.308960@k79g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
> On Aug 2, 10:56 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>


>> The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other
>> countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to encourage
>> behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common policy
>> tool.
>
> The use it here too! Just that they give tax breaks and all kinds of
> facilities to those at the top. Have you noticed that 99% fo the bike
> paths are concentrated where the big people live?
>

If the midgets aren't complaining, then so what?

[Keats]

"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com> wrote in message
news:13b6gctae298e30@news.supernews.com...
>
>
> Here in NYC there is a plan in place to have bike lanes that run through
> all five boroughs.
>

Most of the urban bike lanes I've seen don't seem to make sense and look
dangerous to me. I avoid them when I can.


> In White Plains, where I live, they couldn't get the votes for bike lanes.
> The compromise was putting up signs that say "Bike Route". Some of these
> signs are in the absolute worst place to cycle. I was on the "Bike Route"
> when I got hit and sustained an injury which essentially ended my cycling.
>


To what extent I wonder do non-cyclist pay attention to Bike Route signs.
As a cyclist they don't make me feel safer.

[T. Ling Yu]

donquijote1954 <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1186153023.855815.196390@l70g2000hse.googlegr oups.com:

> On Aug 3, 7:49 am, "Keats" <ke...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> How did anyone on this planet survive for those millions of years
>> before the invention of under arm deodorant and automobile air
>> conditioners? Wouldn't they too seem to be a basic human right,
>> Jeff?-
>
> I don't know about those, but the right to ride a bike in safety
> should be a human right.

I think it's covered in the UDHR, under article 3, and to some
extent, article 5 with regard to roadies vs freds and lycra vs
denim.

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

[donquijote1954]

On Aug 3, 12:26 pm, "Keats" <ke...@nospam.com> wrote:
> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1186152217.928154.308960@k79g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
>
> > On Aug 2, 10:56 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
> > <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other
> >> countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to encourage
> >> behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common policy
> >> tool.
>
> > The use it here too! Just that they give tax breaks and all kinds of
> > facilities to those at the top. Have you noticed that 99% fo the bike
> > paths are concentrated where the big people live?
>
> If the midgets aren't complaining, then so what?

"Democracy is when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the
rulers" -Aristotle

The midgets are what defines "democracy"... Or should be define it
anyway. :(

[Bill Sornson]

Keats wrote:
> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1186152217.928154.308960@k79g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
\

>> The use it here too! Just that they give tax breaks and all kinds of
>> facilities to those at the top. Have you noticed that 99% fo the bike
>> paths are concentrated where the big people live?

> If the midgets aren't complaining, then so what?

POTW!

[Keats]

"donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1186166703.282779.264740@o61g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
> On Aug 3, 12:26 pm, "Keats" <ke...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1186152217.928154.308960@k79g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
>>
>> > On Aug 2, 10:56 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
>> > <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other
>> >> countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to
>> >> encourage
>> >> behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common
>> >> policy
>> >> tool.
>>
>> > The use it here too! Just that they give tax breaks and all kinds of
>> > facilities to those at the top. Have you noticed that 99% fo the bike
>> > paths are concentrated where the big people live?
>>
>> If the midgets aren't complaining, then so what?
>
> "Democracy is when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the
> rulers" -Aristotle
>
> The midgets are what defines "democracy"... Or should be define it
> anyway. :(
>

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the
average voter."

WINSTON CHURCHILL

[Tom Keats]

In article <v8Wdnf1_D6GePy7bnZ2dnUVZ_q6hnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Keats" <keats@nospam.com> writes:
>
> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1186166703.282779.264740@o61g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
>> On Aug 3, 12:26 pm, "Keats" <ke...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:1186152217.928154.308960@k79g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
>>>
>>> > On Aug 2, 10:56 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
>>> > <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >> The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other
>>> >> countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to
>>> >> encourage
>>> >> behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common
>>> >> policy
>>> >> tool.
>>>
>>> > The use it here too! Just that they give tax breaks and all kinds of
>>> > facilities to those at the top. Have you noticed that 99% fo the bike
>>> > paths are concentrated where the big people live?
>>>
>>> If the midgets aren't complaining, then so what?
>>
>> "Democracy is when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the
>> rulers" -Aristotle
>>
>> The midgets are what defines "democracy"... Or should be define it
>> anyway. :(
>>
>
> "The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the
> average voter."
>
> WINSTON CHURCHILL


"Democracy becomes a government of bullies tempered by editors."
-- R. W. Emerson


--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[donquijote1954]

On Aug 3, 5:45 pm, "Keats" <ke...@nospam.com> wrote:
> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1186166703.282779.264740@o61g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 3, 12:26 pm, "Keats" <ke...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:1186152217.928154.308960@k79g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
>
> >> > On Aug 2, 10:56 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
> >> > <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other
> >> >> countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to
> >> >> encourage
> >> >> behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common
> >> >> policy
> >> >> tool.
>
> >> > The use it here too! Just that they give tax breaks and all kinds of
> >> > facilities to those at the top. Have you noticed that 99% fo the bike
> >> > paths are concentrated where the big people live?
>
> >> If the midgets aren't complaining, then so what?
>
> > "Democracy is when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the
> > rulers" -Aristotle
>
> > The midgets are what defines "democracy"... Or should be define it
> > anyway. :(
>
> "The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the
> average voter."

Luckily, today we only require that the citizen casts a vote every
four years. Any kind of conversation is discouraged, just in case.

[Edward Dolan]

"Keats" <keats@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:v8Wdnf1_D6GePy7bnZ2dnUVZ_q6hnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1186166703.282779.264740@o61g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
>> On Aug 3, 12:26 pm, "Keats" <ke...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:1186152217.928154.308960@k79g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
>>>
>>> > On Aug 2, 10:56 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
>>> > <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >> The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many
>>> >> other
>>> >> countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to
>>> >> encourage
>>> >> behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common
>>> >> policy
>>> >> tool.
>>>
>>> > The use it here too! Just that they give tax breaks and all kinds of
>>> > facilities to those at the top. Have you noticed that 99% fo the bike
>>> > paths are concentrated where the big people live?
>>>
>>> If the midgets aren't complaining, then so what?
>>
>> "Democracy is when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the
>> rulers" -Aristotle
>>
>> The midgets are what defines "democracy"... Or should be define it
>> anyway. :(
>>
>
> "The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with
> the average voter."
>
> WINSTON CHURCHILL

There has hardly ever been a democracy in the history of the world (even the
ancient Greek city states did not give any note to the slaves that made
their society possible). What we have are republican forms of governance
where we elect representatives to govern us. I would not have it any other
way. If you would like to see democracy in action go to a Vermont town hall
meeting sometime and you will come away utterly opposed to true democracy.
It is a recipe for never getting anything done.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Keats]

"Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cb809f.rd2.ln@vcn.bc.ca...
> In article <v8Wdnf1_D6GePy7bnZ2dnUVZ_q6hnZ2d@comcast.com>,
> "Keats" <keats@nospam.com> writes:
>>
>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1186166703.282779.264740@o61g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
>>> On Aug 3, 12:26 pm, "Keats" <ke...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:1186152217.928154.308960@k79g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
>>>>
>>>> > On Aug 2, 10:56 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
>>>> > <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many
>>>> >> other
>>>> >> countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to
>>>> >> encourage
>>>> >> behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common
>>>> >> policy
>>>> >> tool.
>>>>
>>>> > The use it here too! Just that they give tax breaks and all kinds of
>>>> > facilities to those at the top. Have you noticed that 99% fo the bike
>>>> > paths are concentrated where the big people live?
>>>>
>>>> If the midgets aren't complaining, then so what?
>>>
>>> "Democracy is when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the
>>> rulers" -Aristotle
>>>
>>> The midgets are what defines "democracy"... Or should be define it
>>> anyway. :(
>>>
>>
>> "The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with
>> the
>> average voter."
>>
>> WINSTON CHURCHILL
>
>
> "Democracy becomes a government of bullies tempered by editors."
> -- R. W. Emerson
>
>
> --


There seems to be tons of democracy quotes. Rather than doing battling
quotes I suggest all those interested Google "democracy quotes" and groove
on their own personal favorites.

The no relation to Tom Keats Keats

[Tom Keats]

In article <CfKdnXo8Fsq0Iy7bnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Keats" <keats@nospam.com> writes:
>
> "Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:cb809f.rd2.ln@vcn.bc.ca...

>>> "The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with
>>> the
>>> average voter."
>>>
>>> WINSTON CHURCHILL
>>
>>
>> "Democracy becomes a government of bullies tempered by editors."
>> -- R. W. Emerson

> There seems to be tons of democracy quotes. Rather than doing battling
> quotes I suggest all those interested Google "democracy quotes" and groove
> on their own personal favorites.

DonQuijote says he wants democracy and rails against the
status quo; maybe what he really needs is sympathetic
editors/media personnel.

Maybe he should set up a print shop and become real
media personnel himself.

But I guess that would mean he'd have to become a /real/
bike activist and assume the responsibilities thereof,
instead of just being a cheap-talk, Usenet ****-disturber,
lyric cyclist.

> The no relation to Tom Keats Keats

I hope you're sure 'bout that. One of my worst fears is
discovering hitherto unknown progeny.



cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Michael Press]

In article
<CfKdnXo8Fsq0Iy7bnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Keats" <keats@nospam.com> wrote:

> "Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:cb809f.rd2.ln@vcn.bc.ca...
> > In article <v8Wdnf1_D6GePy7bnZ2dnUVZ_q6hnZ2d@comcast.com>,
> > "Keats" <keats@nospam.com> writes:
> >>
> >> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1186166703.282779.264740@o61g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
> >>> On Aug 3, 12:26 pm, "Keats" <ke...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >>>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>
> >>>> news:1186152217.928154.308960@k79g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
> >>>>
> >>>> > On Aug 2, 10:56 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
> >>>> > <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> >> The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many
> >>>> >> other
> >>>> >> countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to
> >>>> >> encourage
> >>>> >> behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common
> >>>> >> policy
> >>>> >> tool.
> >>>>
> >>>> > The use it here too! Just that they give tax breaks and all kinds of
> >>>> > facilities to those at the top. Have you noticed that 99% fo the bike
> >>>> > paths are concentrated where the big people live?
> >>>>
> >>>> If the midgets aren't complaining, then so what?
> >>>
> >>> "Democracy is when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the
> >>> rulers" -Aristotle
> >>>
> >>> The midgets are what defines "democracy"... Or should be define it
> >>> anyway. :(
> >>>
> >>
> >> "The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with
> >> the
> >> average voter."
> >>
> >> WINSTON CHURCHILL
> >
> >
> > "Democracy becomes a government of bullies tempered by editors."
> > -- R. W. Emerson
> >
> >
> > --
>
>
> There seems to be tons of democracy quotes. Rather than doing battling
> quotes I suggest all those interested Google "democracy quotes" and groove
> on their own personal favorites.

People get the government they deserve.

--
Michael Press

[donquijote1954]

On Aug 3, 8:14 pm, tkeats2...@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) wrote:
> In article <CfKdnXo8Fsq0Iy7bnZ2dneKdnZydn...@comcast.com>,
> "Keats" <ke...@nospam.com> writes:
>
>
>
> > "Tom Keats" <tkeats2...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:cb809f.rd2.ln@vcn.bc.ca...
> >>> "The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with
> >>> the
> >>> average voter."
>
> >>> WINSTON CHURCHILL
>
> >> "Democracy becomes a government of bullies tempered by editors."
> >> -- R. W. Emerson
> > There seems to be tons of democracy quotes. Rather than doing battling
> > quotes I suggest all those interested Google "democracy quotes" and groove
> > on their own personal favorites.
>
> DonQuijote says he wants democracy and rails against the
> status quo; maybe what he really needs is sympathetic
> editors/media personnel.

The status quo is a mix of hypocrisy and democracy (notice it rhymes)
in a ratio of 90% to 10%.

> Maybe he should set up a print shop and become real
> media personnel himself.
>
> But I guess that would mean he'd have to become a /real/
> bike activist and assume the responsibilities thereof,
> instead of just being a cheap-talk, Usenet ****-disturber,
> lyric cyclist.

What do you call a /real/ bike activist? Well, let me tell you that a /
dead/ bike activist is not a real bike activist. Particularly those
that practice the activism on busy roads among stupid drivers.

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

donquijote1954 who? wrote:
> On Aug 3, 5:45 pm, "Keats" <ke...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1186166703.282779.264740@o61g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Aug 3, 12:26 pm, "Keats" <ke...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1186152217.928154.308960@k79g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
>>>>> On Aug 2, 10:56 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
>>>>> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other
>>>>>> countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to
>>>>>> encourage
>>>>>> behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common
>>>>>> policy
>>>>>> tool.
>>>>> The use it here too! Just that they give tax breaks and all kinds of
>>>>> facilities to those at the top. Have you noticed that 99% fo the bike
>>>>> paths are concentrated where the big people live?
>>>> If the midgets aren't complaining, then so what?
>>> "Democracy is when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the
>>> rulers" -Aristotle
>>> The midgets are what defines "democracy"... Or should be define it
>>> anyway. :(
>> "The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the
>> average voter."
>
> Luckily, today we only require that the