"cow horn" handlebars stem question [Archive]

joseph.santaniello@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 11:33 AM

On Aug 19, 5:48 pm, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
> Would I want to go with a shorter stem length if I switched off to say,
> Nitto time trial handlebars from regular road bars?

I'd say it depends on whether you use the tops or the hoods most
often, and how the bars you choose match up to your existing road bar
reach.

I have a set of nashbar cow-horns on my fixed gear bike. I opted to
have a stem that makes the tops be in the same place as on my road
bike. This means the cow-horn part is a little further out than the
hoods are on my road bike, but not much. I find that while the cow-
horns don't have as many positions as the regular road bars, the
comfort of the forward position makes up fo this. My hands feel
cramped on the hoods of my road bike in a way they don't with cow-
horns. If you are just swapping bars, the existing stem length is
probably fine. I also don't miss the drops position because I ride my
fixed gear in a more relaxed manner than my road bike, so even if the
bike had drops, I would probably never use them.

Gratuitous link to pic of my bike pre-frame swap:

http://arbitrary.org/black.JPG

Joseph

Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com

01-03-1970, 11:33 AM

On Aug 19, 9:48 am, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
> Would I want to go with a shorter stem length if I switched off to say,
> Nitto time trial handlebars from regular road bars?

Probably just the opposite since where your hands live on a cowhorn is
farther forward than a drop handlebar on the hoods. But use the
present stem and see before you change both.

Paul Myron Hobson

01-03-1970, 11:33 AM

Jim Flom wrote:
> Would I want to go with a shorter stem length if I switched off to say,
> Nitto time trial handlebars from regular road bars?
>
>

I've a bike with drop bars and a bike with Syntace bullhorns (1 cm
drop). The cock pit length is the same and both bikes are very
comfortable. You really don't need a shorter stem b/c you can put your
hands right at or just past the bend forward, giving a very relaxed "on
the hoods" position that is a nice alternative to the "tops" of the
bars. The middle of bars analogous to the actual hoods on a set of drop
bars.

I find the bars to be very comfortable and perfect for commuting...3
relaxed hand positions, and one that's a little more aggressive.
Basically the sweet spot between drop bars and flat bars. I have Tektro
TT levers that are long enough that I don't have to be completely
stretched out to get very good stopping power as well. YMMV.

\\paul

andresmuro@aol.com

01-03-1970, 11:33 AM

On Aug 19, 9:48 am, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
> Would I want to go with a shorter stem length if I switched off to say,
> Nitto time trial handlebars from regular road bars?

It depends on how you will be using them. In theory, TT handlebars are
used to get you more aerodynamic. Find the most aero position that you
can comfortably get on you current road bars. Try to place your TT
bars in a position in which your hands, while near that brake levers,
will be just as aerodynamic or more so. On the other hand, if you are
going to use them as a base for some bolt on tri type aerobars, Then
you need to figure out what is the ideal position for bolt ons a and
then, Adjusting the stem accordingly.

A TT handlebar will place you hands slightly further forward than on
road bars. However, they may not place them as low as in the drops of
a road bar. so you need to decide also if you want to be more
stretched or lower. So, you may keep the same stem and be a little
more stretched. or you may want to get a shorter stem and place it
lower.

What is your objective for getting TT bars? Saving weight? More
aerodynamic position? Base for bolt-on tri bars? Looks? comfort?

Andres

Jim Flom

01-03-1970, 11:33 AM

<andresmuro@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1187539843.649593.42150@r34g2000hsd.googlegro ups.com...
> On Aug 19, 9:48 am, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
>> Would I want to go with a shorter stem length if I switched off to say,
>> Nitto time trial handlebars from regular road bars?
>
> It depends on how you will be using them. In theory, TT handlebars are
> used to get you more aerodynamic. Find the most aero position that you
> can comfortably get on you current road bars. Try to place your TT
> bars in a position in which your hands, while near that brake levers,
> will be just as aerodynamic or more so. On the other hand, if you are
> going to use them as a base for some bolt on tri type aerobars, Then
> you need to figure out what is the ideal position for bolt ons a and
> then, Adjusting the stem accordingly.
>
> A TT handlebar will place you hands slightly further forward than on
> road bars. However, they may not place them as low as in the drops of
> a road bar. so you need to decide also if you want to be more
> stretched or lower. So, you may keep the same stem and be a little
> more stretched. or you may want to get a shorter stem and place it
> lower.
>
> What is your objective for getting TT bars? Saving weight? More
> aerodynamic position? Base for bolt-on tri bars? Looks? comfort?

I'm switching off the road bars from the fixed gear that I use mostly for
in-town riding. I don't want to use the road bars, and looking at the
available options, I see that bike messengers sometimes prefer them. I am
after a more upright ride than if I were in the drops. Given what you're
saying it sounds like I don't want the additional stretch, but don't want to
ride lower either. I have a shorter stem that I can switch out if need be.

A Muzi

01-03-1970, 11:34 AM

> "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
>> Would I want to go with a shorter stem length if I switched off to say,
>> Nitto time trial handlebars from regular road bars?

sergio wrote:
> Take notice.
> A TT handlebar never allows a variaty of grip positions as a regular
> racing bar. That may be a serious disadvantage.

What about Style Points?
They are considered so daring and cool when parked outside the coffee
shop on an (often brakeless) urban fixie!
http://www.yellowjersey.org/FIXJOHA.JPG
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

andresmuro@aol.com

01-03-1970, 11:34 AM

On Aug 19, 11:02 am, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
> <andresm...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1187539843.649593.42150@r34g2000hsd.googlegro ups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Aug 19, 9:48 am, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
> >> Would I want to go with a shorter stem length if I switched off to say,
> >> Nitto time trial handlebars from regular road bars?
>
> > It depends on how you will be using them. In theory, TT handlebars are
> > used to get you more aerodynamic. Find the most aero position that you
> > can comfortably get on you current road bars. Try to place your TT
> > bars in a position in which your hands, while near that brake levers,
> > will be just as aerodynamic or more so. On the other hand, if you are
> > going to use them as a base for some bolt on tri type aerobars, Then
> > you need to figure out what is the ideal position for bolt ons a and
> > then, Adjusting the stem accordingly.
>
> > A TT handlebar will place you hands slightly further forward than on
> > road bars. However, they may not place them as low as in the drops of
> > a road bar. so you need to decide also if you want to be more
> > stretched or lower. So, you may keep the same stem and be a little
> > more stretched. or you may want to get a shorter stem and place it
> > lower.
>
> > What is your objective for getting TT bars? Saving weight? More
> > aerodynamic position? Base for bolt-on tri bars? Looks? comfort?
>
> I'm switching off the road bars from the fixed gear that I use mostly for
> in-town riding. I don't want to use the road bars, and looking at the
> available options, I see that bike messengers sometimes prefer them. I am
> after a more upright ride than if I were in the drops. Given what you're
> saying it sounds like I don't want the additional stretch, but don't want to
> ride lower either. I have a shorter stem that I can switch out if need be.

As JT suggests, you can find a comfortable position in your current
setup. Measure the distance where you would place your hands to the
saddle. Place the TTs so that the your hands on the TTs will be at the
same distance. Note that some cownhorns have very long ends, and some
are shorter. when you put the break levers, they may be too far
forward. and hence your hands will be really far forward. You can
either use a shorted stem, or chop a couple of inches of the
cowhorns.

Sergio points to something obvious, but important. Road bars have four
or five hand positions. TTs have only two to three. a very comfortable
position that you end up losing with the TTs is the ability to rest
your hands on your brake levers. some people chop the Road bars below
the levers and end up with a set up which is similar to the TTs and
the brake levers to rest your hands. You end up with the cleaner look
that some bike couriers and commuters favor. Once you chopped the road
bar ends, you can flip them and end up with cowhorns. That is what
Road racers used to do in the olden days. Cowhorns were essentially
flipped road bars with the ends chopped of. Note that this is a money
saving altenative too. cheap roadbars can be found on ebay for peanuts
sometimes. TT bars are often more expensive.

I rambled a lot, but to answer your specific question, measure the
distance from the tip of your saddle and where you would want your
hands to be. You can also lay the tts right on top of your roadbars.
See where the position of your hands will be on the TTs in comparison
to where they are on your roadbars. You may need a shorter stem as you
suggest.

Andres

sergio

01-03-1970, 11:34 AM

On 19 Ago, 19:23, "andresm...@aol.com"
> Sergio points to something obvious, but important. Road bars have four
> or five hand positions. TTs have only two to three.

Not to take back my previous warning, by all means!, let me add the
following.
Just for the change1, I have in the past acquired and built up a
Benotto TT machine, an excellent 26" front wheel frameset, with what
you call a cow-horn handelbar.
As a matter of fact it turned out to be so comfortable that I happily
take it out also on rather long outings, up to five hours so far, with
no inconvenience whatsoever.
Going uphill or downhill I never feel the need to sit up nor farther
back on the saddle.
A marvel!

Sergio
Pisa

Jim Flom

01-03-1970, 11:34 AM

"Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" <peter@vecchios.com> wrote in
message news:1187544329.345011.40790@i38g2000prf.googlegro ups.com...
> On Aug 19, 9:48 am, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
>> Would I want to go with a shorter stem length if I switched off to say,
>> Nitto time trial handlebars from regular road bars?
>
> Probably just the opposite since where your hands live on a cowhorn is
> farther forward than a drop handlebar on the hoods. But use the
> present stem and see before you change both.

Present stem does the trick.

Jim Flom

01-03-1970, 11:35 AM

<joseph.santaniello@gmail.com> wrote...
>
> I'd say it depends on whether you use the tops or the hoods most
> often, and how the bars you choose match up to your existing road bar
> reach.
>
> I have a set of nashbar cow-horns on my fixed gear bike. I opted to
> have a stem that makes the tops be in the same place as on my road
> bike. This means the cow-horn part is a little further out than the
> hoods are on my road bike, but not much. I find that while the cow-
> horns don't have as many positions as the regular road bars, the
> comfort of the forward position makes up fo this. My hands feel
> cramped on the hoods of my road bike in a way they don't with cow-
> horns. If you are just swapping bars, the existing stem length is
> probably fine. I also don't miss the drops position because I ride my
> fixed gear in a more relaxed manner than my road bike, so even if the
> bike had drops, I would probably never use them.
>
> Gratuitous link to pic of my bike pre-frame swap:
>
> http://arbitrary.org/black.JPG

Cool bike. It looks like mine's gonna look. I'm after the same basic idea
you were after. I mostly ride on the hoods, but want what looks like the
more comfortable stance that the cow horns offer. I also looked at the $20
nashbar handlebars,

http://tinyurl.com/26umga

but while I like the black, the $40 Nittos

http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=1833

look more comfortable to me and better able to take a set of brakes. For my
purposes I'm not worried about any loss of hand positions. I'm not going so
far on any given trip with this bike that I'm worried about it. I'm
expecting the comfort you describe. They just look like the position I'm
after.

datakoll

01-03-1970, 11:36 AM

in the process of acquiring parts for a still unchosen 29er frame, i
bought 2 different bars at $12.50 each to experiment with-as deviating
from the DOWN THE ROAD drop bars sole experience
as the situation certainly seems impossible to hypothezise with a base
line experience
see universal cycles for the bars layout.
I asked the lower back muscles but they said noooooooooooooooooo
comment without a handson tryout.

Paul Myron Hobson

01-03-1970, 11:36 AM

> <joseph.santaniello@gmail.com> wrote...
>>
>> Gratuitous link to pic of my bike pre-frame swap:
>>
>> http://arbitrary.org/black.JPG

Jim Flom wrote:
> Cool bike. It looks like mine's gonna look. I'm after the same basic idea
> you were after. I mostly ride on the hoods, but want what looks like the
> more comfortable stance that the cow horns offer. I also looked at the $20
> nashbar handlebars,
>
> http://tinyurl.com/26umga
>
> but while I like the black, the $40 Nittos
>
> http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=1833
>
> look more comfortable to me and better able to take a set of brakes. For my
> purposes I'm not worried about any loss of hand positions. I'm not going so
> far on any given trip with this bike that I'm worried about it. I'm
> expecting the comfort you describe. They just look like the position I'm
> after.

The Nashbar and Syntace bars that I use are AFAIK, identical with the
exception of internal cable routing. My bars have had both Tektro and
Dia-Compe TT levers and both worked fine (the Tektro levers match the
routing better).

\\paul

G.T.

01-03-1970, 11:36 AM

Jim Flom wrote:
> <joseph.santaniello@gmail.com> wrote...
>> I'd say it depends on whether you use the tops or the hoods most
>> often, and how the bars you choose match up to your existing road bar
>> reach.
>>
>> I have a set of nashbar cow-horns on my fixed gear bike. I opted to
>> have a stem that makes the tops be in the same place as on my road
>> bike. This means the cow-horn part is a little further out than the
>> hoods are on my road bike, but not much. I find that while the cow-
>> horns don't have as many positions as the regular road bars, the
>> comfort of the forward position makes up fo this. My hands feel
>> cramped on the hoods of my road bike in a way they don't with cow-
>> horns. If you are just swapping bars, the existing stem length is
>> probably fine. I also don't miss the drops position because I ride my
>> fixed gear in a more relaxed manner than my road bike, so even if the
>> bike had drops, I would probably never use them.
>>
>> Gratuitous link to pic of my bike pre-frame swap:
>>
>> http://arbitrary.org/black.JPG
>

Very cool.

> Cool bike. It looks like mine's gonna look. I'm after the same basic idea
> you were after. I mostly ride on the hoods, but want what looks like the
> more comfortable stance that the cow horns offer.

Yeah, I'm looking for a cheap pair of non-grooved, non-ergo road bars to
cut. On my road bikes I ride on the hoods 80% of the time, the flats
15%, and the drops 5%. On my mtn bike I spend all non-technical time on
the bar ends. I'd get some time trial bars but I think cut and
flipped road bars will work better for me.

Greg

--
Ticketmaster and Ticketweb suck, but everyone knows that:
http://www.ticketmastersucks.org

Dethink to survive - Mclusky

autopi

01-03-1970, 11:36 AM

i've used both the nashbar and the nitto bars. i found the nashbar
ones more comfortable, actually, b/c the nitto ones have a bit more
drop than i like. i found that i could ride with my hands on the ends
of the nashbar bars more comfortably and w/more control than with the
nitto ones.

on the nashbar bars i had a TT brake, whereas on the nittos i have a
cyclocross interrupter lever mounted up closer to the stem. i assume
that setup would work on the nashbar's as well, so i don't see that
there's any difference b/w the two as far as brakes go.

on the other hand, one difference was that i could not for the life of
me get the nashbar's through a typical quill stem--i had to get an
icon stem w/a removable face plate to use w/the nashbar's. that stem
was so ugly that i eventually got the nittos so i could use a normal
quill stem. (if you have threadless i suppose it doesn't matter.)

joseph.santaniello@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 11:36 AM

On Aug 20, 12:28 am, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
> <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote...
>
> > I'd say it depends on whether you use the tops or the hoods most
> > often, and how the bars you choose match up to your existing road bar
> > reach.
>
> > I have a set of nashbar cow-horns on my fixed gear bike. I opted to
> > have a stem that makes the tops be in the same place as on my road
> > bike. This means the cow-horn part is a little further out than the
> > hoods are on my road bike, but not much. I find that while the cow-
> > horns don't have as many positions as the regular road bars, the
> > comfort of the forward position makes up fo this. My hands feel
> > cramped on the hoods of my road bike in a way they don't with cow-
> > horns. If you are just swapping bars, the existing stem length is
> > probably fine. I also don't miss the drops position because I ride my
> > fixed gear in a more relaxed manner than my road bike, so even if the
> > bike had drops, I would probably never use them.
>
> > Gratuitous link to pic of my bike pre-frame swap:
>
> >http://arbitrary.org/black.JPG
>
> Cool bike. It looks like mine's gonna look. I'm after the same basic idea
> you were after. I mostly ride on the hoods, but want what looks like the
> more comfortable stance that the cow horns offer. I also looked at the $20
> nashbar handlebars,
>
> http://tinyurl.com/26umga
>
> but while I like the black, the $40 Nittos
>
> http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=1833
>
> look more comfortable to me and better able to take a set of brakes. For my
> purposes I'm not worried about any loss of hand positions. I'm not going so
> far on any given trip with this bike that I'm worried about it. I'm
> expecting the comfort you describe. They just look like the position I'm
> after.

I have big hands, so I think I prefer the Nashbar ones because they
have a longer straight section so I don't have the cramped hand
problem that I get on road hoods. As far as brake levers, some TT ones
work fine on the nashbars.

I actually think they are so comfortable I have toyed with the idea of
using them with TT brake levers on the ends and twistshifters in the
middle for a long distance road bike. I've ridden that fixed gear on
160km rides with no discomfort at all.

Joseph

Jim Flom

01-03-1970, 11:38 AM

"autopi" <iamnetflix@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1187570828.145086.316620@50g2000hsm.googlegro ups.com...
> i've used both the nashbar and the nitto bars. i found the nashbar
> ones more comfortable, actually, b/c the nitto ones have a bit more
> drop than i like. i found that i could ride with my hands on the ends
> of the nashbar bars more comfortably and w/more control than with the
> nitto ones.
>
> on the nashbar bars i had a TT brake, whereas on the nittos i have a
> cyclocross interrupter lever mounted up closer to the stem. i assume
> that setup would work on the nashbar's as well, so i don't see that
> there's any difference b/w the two as far as brakes go.
>
> on the other hand, one difference was that i could not for the life of
> me get the nashbar's through a typical quill stem--i had to get an
> icon stem w/a removable face plate to use w/the nashbar's. that stem
> was so ugly that i eventually got the nittos so i could use a normal
> quill stem. (if you have threadless i suppose it doesn't matter.)

Sounds like you used them for time trialing?

My stem on the bike right now is one of those ugly ones with the faceplate,
but the shorter stem is an older style quill. Gets me thinking.

JF

Jim Flom

01-03-1970, 11:38 AM

"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote...
>
> What about Style Points?
> They are considered so daring and cool when parked outside the coffee shop
> on an (often brakeless) urban fixie!
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/FIXJOHA.JPG

I had no idea...

Paul Myron Hobson

01-03-1970, 11:38 AM

A Muzi wrote:
>> "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
>>> Would I want to go with a shorter stem length if I switched off to say,
>>> Nitto time trial handlebars from regular road bars?
>
> sergio wrote:
>> Take notice.
>> A TT handlebar never allows a variaty of grip positions as a regular
>> racing bar. That may be a serious disadvantage.
>
> What about Style Points?
> They are considered so daring and cool when parked outside the coffee
> shop on an (often brakeless) urban fixie!
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/FIXJOHA.JPG

May I inquire about the cottered BB spindle device-a-ma-bobber in the
lower right hand corner of the photo?

\\paul

G.T.

01-03-1970, 11:38 AM

A Muzi wrote:
>> "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
>>> Would I want to go with a shorter stem length if I switched off to say,
>>> Nitto time trial handlebars from regular road bars?
>
> sergio wrote:
>> Take notice.
>> A TT handlebar never allows a variaty of grip positions as a regular
>> racing bar. That may be a serious disadvantage.
>
> What about Style Points?
> They are considered so daring and cool when parked outside the coffee
> shop on an (often brakeless) urban fixie!
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/FIXJOHA.JPG

Nice. I LOVE these guys:

http://www.myspace.com/fixedgearsareforjerksandlesbians

hahahahahahahahah

Greg

--
Ticketmaster and Ticketweb suck, but everyone knows that:
http://www.ticketmastersucks.org

Dethink to survive - Mclusky

autopi

01-03-1970, 11:38 AM

no, this is on my commuter-fixed gear bike. also it occurs to me that
when researching the nitto's i discovered that there are 2 types, that
kind of look similar, except one will take a TT brake and one won't.
perhaps you are already aware of that, but fyi if not.

A Muzi

01-03-1970, 11:38 AM

>>> "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
>>>> Would I want to go with a shorter stem length if I switched off to say,
>>>> Nitto time trial handlebars from regular road bars?

>> sergio wrote:
>>> Take notice.
>>> A TT handlebar never allows a variaty of grip positions as a regular
>>> racing bar. That may be a serious disadvantage.

> A Muzi wrote:
>> What about Style Points?
>> They are considered so daring and cool when parked outside the coffee
>> shop on an (often brakeless) urban fixie!
>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/FIXJOHA.JPG

Paul Myron Hobson wrote:
> May I inquire about the cottered BB spindle device-a-ma-bobber in the
> lower right hand corner of the photo?

Replaces the broken plastic handle on our Ultimate USA work stand.
hey, we had one handy at the moment so we used it!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Jim Flom

01-03-1970, 11:41 AM

<joseph.santaniello@gmail.com> wrote...
>>
>> > I have a set of nashbar cow-horns on my fixed gear bike.
>>
>> > Gratuitous link to pic of my bike pre-frame swap:
>>
>> >http://arbitrary.org/black.JPG

Are your Nashbar bars are the same as the Nashbar bars pictured here?

>> http://tinyurl.com/26umga

Yours looks like they drop down more, like the Nittos, but not quite as far,
and as you say, more room for your hands. .

>> http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=1833
>
> I have big hands, so I think I prefer the Nashbar ones because they
> have a longer straight section so I don't have the cramped hand
> problem that I get on road hoods. As far as brake levers, some TT ones
> work fine on the nashbars.

I wonder if my road brake calipers would work with the TT bars. I'd like to
keep it fairly crappy looking.

joseph.santaniello@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 11:41 AM

On Aug 20, 12:43 pm, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
> <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote...
>
> >> > I have a set of nashbar cow-horns on my fixed gear bike.
>
> >> > Gratuitous link to pic of my bike pre-frame swap:
>
> >> >http://arbitrary.org/black.JPG
>
> Are your Nashbar bars are the same as the Nashbar bars pictured here?
>
> >>http://tinyurl.com/26umga

I think so. I got mine on eBay for $12 and I didn't realize they were
Nashbar until I saw the logo.

>
> Yours looks like they drop down more, like the Nittos, but not quite as far,
> and as you say, more room for your hands. .

The drop is pretty minimal. Maybe 25-30mm difference between palm
height between the two hand positions.

> >>http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=1833
>
> > I have big hands, so I think I prefer the Nashbar ones because they
> > have a longer straight section so I don't have the cramped hand
> > problem that I get on road hoods. As far as brake levers, some TT ones
> > work fine on the nashbars.
>
> I wonder if my road brake calipers would work with the TT bars. I'd like to
> keep it fairly crappy looking.

You mean levers I assume. There is room for them (and it would look
crappy!) but I like using the way-forward hand position sometimes, and
levers there would get in the way.

Joseph

Jim Flom

01-03-1970, 11:42 AM

<joseph.santaniello@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1187610208.812845.86930@w3g2000hsg.googlegrou ps.com...
> On Aug 20, 12:43 pm, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
>> <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote...
>>
>> >> > I have a set of nashbar cow-horns on my fixed gear bike.
>>
>> >> > Gratuitous link to pic of my bike pre-frame swap:
>>
>> >> >http://arbitrary.org/black.JPG
>>
>> Are your Nashbar bars are the same as the Nashbar bars pictured here?
>>
>> >>http://tinyurl.com/26umga
>
> I think so. I got mine on eBay for $12 and I didn't realize they were
> Nashbar until I saw the logo.
>
>>
>> Yours looks like they drop down more, like the Nittos, but not quite as
>> far,
>> and as you say, more room for your hands. .
>
> The drop is pretty minimal. Maybe 25-30mm difference between palm
> height between the two hand positions.
>
>> >>http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=1833
>>
>> > I have big hands, so I think I prefer the Nashbar ones because they
>> > have a longer straight section so I don't have the cramped hand
>> > problem that I get on road hoods. As far as brake levers, some TT ones
>> > work fine on the nashbars.
>>
>> I wonder if my road brake calipers would work with the TT bars. I'd like
>> to
>> keep it fairly crappy looking.
>
> You mean levers I assume. There is room for them (and it would look
> crappy!) but I like using the way-forward hand position sometimes, and
> levers there would get in the way.

Yes, levers.

J "oops" F

andresmuro@aol.com

01-03-1970, 11:43 AM

On Aug 20, 9:43 am, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
> <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1187610208.812845.86930@w3g2000hsg.googlegrou ps.com...
>
>
>
> > On Aug 20, 12:43 pm, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
> >> <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote...
>
> >> >> > I have a set of nashbar cow-horns on my fixed gear bike.
>
> >> >> > Gratuitous link to pic of my bike pre-frame swap:
>
> >> >> >http://arbitrary.org/black.JPG
>
> >> Are your Nashbar bars are the same as the Nashbar bars pictured here?
>
> >> >>http://tinyurl.com/26umga
>
> > I think so. I got mine on eBay for $12 and I didn't realize they were
> > Nashbar until I saw the logo.
>
> >> Yours looks like they drop down more, like the Nittos, but not quite as
> >> far,
> >> and as you say, more room for your hands. .
>
> > The drop is pretty minimal. Maybe 25-30mm difference between palm
> > height between the two hand positions.
>
> >> >>http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=1833
>
> >> > I have big hands, so I think I prefer the Nashbar ones because they
> >> > have a longer straight section so I don't have the cramped hand
> >> > problem that I get on road hoods. As far as brake levers, some TT ones
> >> > work fine on the nashbars.
>
> >> I wonder if my road brake calipers would work with the TT bars. I'd like
> >> to
> >> keep it fairly crappy looking.
>
> > You mean levers I assume. There is room for them (and it would look
> > crappy!) but I like using the way-forward hand position sometimes, and
> > levers there would get in the way.
>
> Yes, levers.
>
> J "oops" F

You can use standard road levers. If you place them with the lever
pointing back and down, the cable has to be bent in a weird way to be
under the bar tape. It reduces braking effectiveness. If, on the other
hand, you place the levers pointing facing, then, the cable runs
straight back on the bars. They look fine and are easy to use use.
Triathletes use to place the levers this way in the olden times. At
some point they forbade the practice because the levers pointing
forward could hurt another rider in the case of an accident. Basically
you would place the lever under the bar with the hood going in first,
and the lever pointing forward and slightly up in the case of the
Nitto bar. Place levers so that they will be under your hand in the
most comfortable location for your hands. They'll be easy to use.

Andres

Jim Flom

01-03-1970, 11:43 AM

<andresmuro@aol.com> wrote...
>
> You can use standard road levers. If you place them with the lever
> pointing back and down, the cable has to be bent in a weird way to be
> under the bar tape. It reduces braking effectiveness. If, on the other
> hand, you place the levers pointing facing, then, the cable runs
> straight back on the bars. They look fine and are easy to use use.
> Triathletes use to place the levers this way in the olden times. At
> some point they forbade the practice because the levers pointing
> forward could hurt another rider in the case of an accident. Basically
> you would place the lever under the bar with the hood going in first,
> and the lever pointing forward and slightly up in the case of the
> Nitto bar. Place levers so that they will be under your hand in the
> most comfortable location for your hands. They'll be easy to use.

The olden times must've been after Dia Compe brakes or else I'm doing it
wrong. My LBS had perfect (black!) cow horn TT bars, and I tried mounting
the brakes as you describe, but when I squeezed hard on the brake levers,
the front cable pops out of its catch under the brake lever. Must be the
angle. I can always try the brakeless approach till my TT brake levers get
in. This is a 27 year old brake system anyway.

andresmuro@aol.com

01-03-1970, 11:43 AM

On Aug 20, 11:21 am, "andresm...@aol.com" <andresm...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Aug 20, 9:43 am, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:1187610208.812845.86930@w3g2000hsg.googlegrou ps.com...
>
> > > On Aug 20, 12:43 pm, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
> > >> <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote...
>
> > >> >> > I have a set of nashbar cow-horns on my fixed gear bike.
>
> > >> >> > Gratuitous link to pic of my bike pre-frame swap:
>
> > >> >> >http://arbitrary.org/black.JPG
>
> > >> Are your Nashbar bars are the same as the Nashbar bars pictured here?
>
> > >> >>http://tinyurl.com/26umga
>
> > > I think so. I got mine on eBay for $12 and I didn't realize they were
> > > Nashbar until I saw the logo.
>
> > >> Yours looks like they drop down more, like the Nittos, but not quite as
> > >> far,
> > >> and as you say, more room for your hands. .
>
> > > The drop is pretty minimal. Maybe 25-30mm difference between palm
> > > height between the two hand positions.
>
> > >> >>http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=1833
>
> > >> > I have big hands, so I think I prefer the Nashbar ones because they
> > >> > have a longer straight section so I don't have the cramped hand
> > >> > problem that I get on road hoods. As far as brake levers, some TT ones
> > >> > work fine on the nashbars.
>
> > >> I wonder if my road brake calipers would work with the TT bars. I'd like
> > >> to
> > >> keep it fairly crappy looking.
>
> > > You mean levers I assume. There is room for them (and it would look
> > > crappy!) but I like using the way-forward hand position sometimes, and
> > > levers there would get in the way.
>
> > Yes, levers.
>
> > J "oops" F
>
> You can use standard road levers. If you place them with the lever
> pointing back and down, the cable has to be bent in a weird way to be
> under the bar tape. It reduces braking effectiveness. If, on the other
> hand, you place the levers pointing facing, then, the cable runs
> straight back on the bars. They look fine and are easy to use use.
> Triathletes use to place the levers this way in the olden times. At
> some point they forbade the practice because the levers pointing
> forward could hurt another rider in the case of an accident. Basically
> you would place the lever under the bar with the hood going in first,
> and the lever pointing forward and slightly up in the case of the
> Nitto bar. Place levers so that they will be under your hand in the
> most comfortable location for your hands. They'll be easy to use.
>
> Andres

One more thing, road brake levers have the return spring that makes
them more snappy. Some TT levers don't have the return spring and the
brakes may feel a little squishy.

Andres

sergio

01-03-1970, 11:47 AM

On Aug 21, 5:26 am, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
when I squeezed hard on the
brake levers,
> the front cable pops out of its catch under the brake lever. Must be the
> angle.

Assuming you have installed properly, it is the levers' fault, or the
cables', or of both that don't match..

Sergio
Pisa

andresmuro@aol.com

01-03-1970, 11:47 AM

On Aug 20, 9:26 pm, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
> <andresm...@aol.com> wrote...
>
> > You can use standard road levers. If you place them with the lever
> > pointing back and down, the cable has to be bent in a weird way to be
> > under the bar tape. It reduces braking effectiveness. If, on the other
> > hand, you place the levers pointing facing, then, the cable runs
> > straight back on the bars. They look fine and are easy to use use.
> > Triathletes use to place the levers this way in the olden times. At
> > some point they forbade the practice because the levers pointing
> > forward could hurt another rider in the case of an accident. Basically
> > you would place the lever under the bar with the hood going in first,
> > and the lever pointing forward and slightly up in the case of the
> > Nitto bar. Place levers so that they will be under your hand in the
> > most comfortable location for your hands. They'll be easy to use.
>
> The olden times must've been after Dia Compe brakes or else I'm doing it
> wrong. My LBS had perfect (black!) cow horn TT bars, and I tried mounting
> the brakes as you describe, but when I squeezed hard on the brake levers,
> the front cable pops out of its catch under the brake lever. Must be the
> angle. I can always try the brakeless approach till my TT brake levers get
> in. This is a 27 year old brake system anyway.

You must be doing something wrong. I have a TT bar that was set up
with tektro road brake levers until about a month ago. I had it set up
with brake levers pointing forward. The brake cables sometimes have
two ends. a bigger one that you use in brake levers and a smaller one
that you can use on shifters. If you chop off the bigger end, the
smaller shifter end will pop out of the brake lever. The proper size
brake cable end will fit into to lever slot and it will not pop out.

Andres

Jim Flom

01-03-1970, 11:49 AM

"sergio" <servadio@df.unipi.it> wrote in message
news:1187682117.208551.23530@22g2000hsm.googlegrou ps.com...
> On Aug 21, 5:26 am, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
> when I squeezed hard on the
> brake levers,
>> the front cable pops out of its catch under the brake lever. Must be the
>> angle.
>
> Assuming you have installed properly, it is the levers' fault, or the
> cables', or of both that don't match..

Thanks for the photo, Sergio. I had it wrong. I had the tips of the levers
literally pointing forward. I interpreted Adres'...

"If you place them with the lever
pointing back and down, the cable has to be bent in a weird way to be
under the bar tape. It reduces braking effectiveness. If, on the other
hand, you place the levers pointing facing [forward], then, the cable runs
straight back on the bars."

I supplied the "forward," since it seemed like a word is missing, and
installed the brakes upside down, since it seemed like the only way a
triathlete could be hurt with them, and the only way the cable could run
straight back to the bars. Seems from the photo you sent that you have the
exact same brake levers I have, and that they're really just installed
"normally."

A Muzi

01-03-1970, 11:49 AM

>> "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
>> when I squeezed hard on the brake levers,
>>> the front cable pops out of its catch under the brake lever. Must be the
>>> angle.

> "sergio" <servadio@df.unipi.it> wrote
>> Assuming you have installed properly, it is the levers' fault, or the
>> cables', or of both that don't match..

Jim Flom wrote:
> Thanks for the photo, Sergio. I had it wrong. I had the tips of the levers
> literally pointing forward. I interpreted Adres'...
>
> "If you place them with the lever
> pointing back and down, the cable has to be bent in a weird way to be
> under the bar tape. It reduces braking effectiveness. If, on the other
> hand, you place the levers pointing facing [forward], then, the cable runs
> straight back on the bars."
>
> I supplied the "forward," since it seemed like a word is missing, and
> installed the brakes upside down, since it seemed like the only way a
> triathlete could be hurt with them, and the only way the cable could run
> straight back to the bars. Seems from the photo you sent that you have the
> exact same brake levers I have, and that they're really just installed
> "normally."

With 'normal' road levers, it's possible to mount the cable end in a
ferrule on the top and run the casing (with another ferrule seated in
the lever carrier) out the bottom. Give a good hard pull on the lever
before riding.

re: 'cable popping out':
Many road levers have a directional cable carrier inside the lever
blade. Ensure you aren't upside down there! A kinked or damaged brake
wire/ head should absolutely be replaced ($1).
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Jim Flom

01-03-1970, 11:52 AM

"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
news:13cmsunql7fft54@corp.supernews.com...
>>> "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
>>> when I squeezed hard on the brake levers,
>>>> the front cable pops out of its catch under the brake lever. Must be
>>>> the
>>>> angle.
>
>> "sergio" <servadio@df.unipi.it> wrote
>>> Assuming you have installed properly, it is the levers' fault, or the
>>> cables', or of both that don't match..
>
> Jim Flom wrote:
>> Thanks for the photo, Sergio. I had it wrong. I had the tips of the
>> levers literally pointing forward. I interpreted Adres'...
>>
>> "If you place them with the lever
>> pointing back and down, the cable has to be bent in a weird way to be
>> under the bar tape. It reduces braking effectiveness. If, on the other
>> hand, you place the levers pointing facing [forward], then, the cable
>> runs
>> straight back on the bars."
>>
>> I supplied the "forward," since it seemed like a word is missing, and
>> installed the brakes upside down, since it seemed like the only way a
>> triathlete could be hurt with them, and the only way the cable could run
>> straight back to the bars. Seems from the photo you sent that you have
>> the exact same brake levers I have, and that they're really just
>> installed "normally."
>
> With 'normal' road levers, it's possible to mount the cable end in a
> ferrule on the top and run the casing (with another ferrule seated in the
> lever carrier) out the bottom. Give a good hard pull on the lever before
> riding.
>
> re: 'cable popping out':
> Many road levers have a directional cable carrier inside the lever blade.
> Ensure you aren't upside down there! A kinked or damaged brake wire/ head
> should absolutely be replaced ($1).

http://tinyurl.com/29md62

or

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=233211391&albumID=0&imageID=299843

A Muzi

01-03-1970, 11:53 AM

>>>> "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
>>>> when I squeezed hard on the brake levers,
>>>>> the front cable pops out of its catch under the brake lever. Must be
>>>>> the angle.

>>> "sergio" <servadio@df.unipi.it> wrote
>>>> Assuming you have installed properly, it is the levers' fault, or the
>>>> cables', or of both that don't match..

>> Jim Flom wrote:
>>> Thanks for the photo, Sergio. I had it wrong. I had the tips of the
>>> levers literally pointing forward. I interpreted Adres'...
>>> "If you place them with the lever
>>> pointing back and down, the cable has to be bent in a weird way to be
>>> under the bar tape. It reduces braking effectiveness. If, on the other
>>> hand, you place the levers pointing facing [forward], then, the cable
>>> runs
>>> straight back on the bars."
>>> I supplied the "forward," since it seemed like a word is missing, and
>>> installed the brakes upside down, since it seemed like the only way a
>>> triathlete could be hurt with them, and the only way the cable could run
>>> straight back to the bars. Seems from the photo you sent that you have
>>> the exact same brake levers I have, and that they're really just
>>> installed "normally."

> "A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote
>> With 'normal' road levers, it's possible to mount the cable end in a
>> ferrule on the top and run the casing (with another ferrule seated in the
>> lever carrier) out the bottom. Give a good hard pull on the lever before
>> riding.
>>
>> re: 'cable popping out':
>> Many road levers have a directional cable carrier inside the lever blade.
>> Ensure you aren't upside down there! A kinked or damaged brake wire/ head
>> should absolutely be replaced ($1).

Jim Flom wrote:
> http://tinyurl.com/29md62
> or
> http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=233211391&albumID=0&imageID=299843

Huh? Paris Hilton? Glacier Surfing? Rilo Kiley? What?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Jim Flom

01-03-1970, 11:53 AM

"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
news:13cn8sjfoc3mrc4@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>> "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
>>>>> when I squeezed hard on the brake levers,
>>>>>> the front cable pops out of its catch under the brake lever. Must be
>>>>>> the angle.
>
>>>> "sergio" <servadio@df.unipi.it> wrote
>>>>> Assuming you have installed properly, it is the levers' fault, or the
>>>>> cables', or of both that don't match..
>
>>> Jim Flom wrote:
>>>> Thanks for the photo, Sergio. I had it wrong. I had the tips of the
>>>> levers literally pointing forward. I interpreted Adres'...
>>>> "If you place them with the lever
>>>> pointing back and down, the cable has to be bent in a weird way to be
>>>> under the bar tape. It reduces braking effectiveness. If, on the other
>>>> hand, you place the levers pointing facing [forward], then, the cable
>>>> runs
>>>> straight back on the bars."
>>>> I supplied the "forward," since it seemed like a word is missing, and
>>>> installed the brakes upside down, since it seemed like the only way a
>>>> triathlete could be hurt with them, and the only way the cable could
>>>> run straight back to the bars. Seems from the photo you sent that you
>>>> have the exact same brake levers I have, and that they're really just
>>>> installed "normally."
>
>> "A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote
>>> With 'normal' road levers, it's possible to mount the cable end in a
>>> ferrule on the top and run the casing (with another ferrule seated in
>>> the lever carrier) out the bottom. Give a good hard pull on the lever
>>> before riding.
>>>
>>> re: 'cable popping out':
>>> Many road levers have a directional cable carrier inside the lever
>>> blade. Ensure you aren't upside down there! A kinked or damaged brake
>>> wire/ head should absolutely be replaced ($1).
>
> Jim Flom wrote:
>> http://tinyurl.com/29md62
>> or
>> http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=233211391&albumID=0&imageID=299843
>
> Huh? Paris Hilton? Glacier Surfing? Rilo Kiley? What?

It didn't give you an image of my handlebars?

RonSonic

01-03-1970, 11:53 AM

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 02:50:02 GMT, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREMOVE@telus.net> wrote:

>"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
>news:13cn8sjfoc3mrc4@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>>> "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
>>>>>> when I squeezed hard on the brake levers,
>>>>>>> the front cable pops out of its catch under the brake lever. Must be
>>>>>>> the angle.
>>
>>>>> "sergio" <servadio@df.unipi.it> wrote
>>>>>> Assuming you have installed properly, it is the levers' fault, or the
>>>>>> cables', or of both that don't match..
>>
>>>> Jim Flom wrote:
>>>>> Thanks for the photo, Sergio. I had it wrong. I had the tips of the
>>>>> levers literally pointing forward. I interpreted Adres'...
>>>>> "If you place them with the lever
>>>>> pointing back and down, the cable has to be bent in a weird way to be
>>>>> under the bar tape. It reduces braking effectiveness. If, on the other
>>>>> hand, you place the levers pointing facing [forward], then, the cable
>>>>> runs
>>>>> straight back on the bars."
>>>>> I supplied the "forward," since it seemed like a word is missing, and
>>>>> installed the brakes upside down, since it seemed like the only way a
>>>>> triathlete could be hurt with them, and the only way the cable could
>>>>> run straight back to the bars. Seems from the photo you sent that you
>>>>> have the exact same brake levers I have, and that they're really just
>>>>> installed "normally."
>>
>>> "A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote
>>>> With 'normal' road levers, it's possible to mount the cable end in a
>>>> ferrule on the top and run the casing (with another ferrule seated in
>>>> the lever carrier) out the bottom. Give a good hard pull on the lever
>>>> before riding.
>>>>
>>>> re: 'cable popping out':
>>>> Many road levers have a directional cable carrier inside the lever
>>>> blade. Ensure you aren't upside down there! A kinked or damaged brake
>>>> wire/ head should absolutely be replaced ($1).
>>
>> Jim Flom wrote:
>>> http://tinyurl.com/29md62
>>> or
>>> http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=233211391&albumID=0&imageID=299843
>>
>> Huh? Paris Hilton? Glacier Surfing? Rilo Kiley? What?
>
>It didn't give you an image of my handlebars?

It only shows them to people who have a myspace account and sign in.

Ron

Paul Myron Hobson

01-03-1970, 11:53 AM

>> Jim Flom wrote:
>>> http://tinyurl.com/29md62
>>> or
>>> http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=233211391&albumID=0&imageID=299843

> "A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
>> Huh? Paris Hilton? Glacier Surfing? Rilo Kiley? What?

Jim Flom wrote:
> It didn't give you an image of my handlebars?

You have to log in to see them and it'll be a cold day in hell when I'm
signed up for myspace. Get flickr, bro.

\\paul

A Muzi

01-03-1970, 11:53 AM

>> Jim Flom wrote:
>>> http://tinyurl.com/29md62
>>> or
>>> http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=233211391&albumID=0&imageID=299843

> "A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
>> Huh? Paris Hilton? Glacier Surfing? Rilo Kiley? What?

Jim Flom wrote:
> It didn't give you an image of my handlebars?

I just see a lot of ads and a login/password box. What's your password?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Jim Flom

01-03-1970, 11:53 AM

"Paul Myron Hobson" <phobson@gatech.edu> wrote in message
news:fag97t$1hf$1@news-int2.gatech.edu...
>>> Jim Flom wrote:
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/29md62
>>>> or
>>>> http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=233211391&albumID=0&imageID=299843
>
> > "A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
>>> Huh? Paris Hilton? Glacier Surfing? Rilo Kiley? What?
>
> Jim Flom wrote:
>> It didn't give you an image of my handlebars?
>
> You have to log in to see them and it'll be a cold day in hell when I'm
> signed up for myspace. Get flickr, bro.

Fine. How's this?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11893790@N03/

Jim Flom

01-03-1970, 11:53 AM

"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote...
>
> Jim Flom wrote:
>> It didn't give you an image of my handlebars?
>
> I just see a lot of ads and a login/password box. What's your password?

Try this: http://velominator.spaces.live.com/default.aspx

I'll try Flickr next. I only created it to post the phto.

Jim Flom

01-03-1970, 11:54 AM

"Jim Flom" <jim.flomREMOVE@telus.net> wrote in message
news:heOyi.277$Pd4.205@edtnps82...
> "A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote...
>>
>> Jim Flom wrote:
>>> It didn't give you an image of my handlebars?
>>
>> I just see a lot of ads and a login/password box. What's your password?
>
> Try this: http://velominator.spaces.live.com/default.aspx
>
> I'll try Flickr next. I only created it to post the phto.

I've since removed the right brake lever.

Jim Flom

01-03-1970, 11:54 AM

"Jim Flom" <jim.flomREMOVE@telus.net> wrote in message
news:tpOyi.280$Pd4.104@edtnps82...
> "Paul Myron Hobson" <phobson@gatech.edu> wrote in message
> news:fag97t$1hf$1@news-int2.gatech.edu...
>>>> Jim Flom wrote:
>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/29md62
>>>>> or
>>>>> http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=233211391&albumID=0&imageID=299843
>>
>> > "A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
>>>> Huh? Paris Hilton? Glacier Surfing? Rilo Kiley? What?
>>
>> Jim Flom wrote:
>>> It didn't give you an image of my handlebars?
>>
>> You have to log in to see them and it'll be a cold day in hell when I'm
>> signed up for myspace. Get flickr, bro.
>
> Fine. How's this?
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/11893790@N03/

or maybe http://www.flickr.com/photos/velominator/