More California [Archive] - Triangle Cycling

SLAVE of THE STATE

01-03-1970, 11:51 AM

cyclintom@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 11:51 AM

On Aug 21, 2:03 pm, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> My relocation plans are starting to take shape. I am going to
> California next week to have a look around. No bike riding, but plenty
> of driving. The plan is for me to see as much as I can so I can make a
> "short list" of potential areas which I will visit again in October
> with my wife and kids so they can see and make a final descision
> later.
>
> I have I beileve enough info for most of the places I will check out,
> but I recently became interested in Santa Maria. Can someone fill me
> in on what the racing/riding scene is like there? How far do you have
> to ride to be out of range of stop signs, etc. In general what is it
> like? Any suggestions on particular things/places I should check out
> when I am in the area?

As Slave says, northern California is a great place to ride but a
particularly nasty area to work in. The commies are intent on
destroying any businesses and slowly managing to kill the goose that
laid the golden egg. If you have a good job it is sometimes funny to
watch them building their own nooses to hang themselves with. For
instance, Berkeley insisted on giving students at Cal the right to
vote in Berkeley elections. Berkeley was really a hotbed of
electronics and biotech development. The numbers of startups there
were probably the highest in the nation and maybe the world. Now there
are essentially no startups there, all of the electronics firms and
all of the biotech firms are gone. One company I worked for was
threatened closure for having "dangerous chemicals on site". What were
these "dangerous chemicals"? Two unopened cans of motor oil used in
the machine shop to lubricate the lath and mill bearings.

Santa Maria is a strange place. It varies from decade to decade as a
good place or not to raise children. Of course good parents can raise
good kids anywhere but it helps if all of the local kids aren't
thieves, druggies or worse (think of Moab). The riding is good but
somewhat limited because there are so many cars down there and so few
roads. But even the old farts are faster than hell. And the length of
rides is sort of farther than I'm used to because most of the routes
are flat though often windy.

Up here in northern California we do 30-50 miles usually with a good
deal of climbing. Down there a 50 mile ride isn't any big deal.

Santa Rosa is pretty much the ideal country if you have a job though
the roads are narrow without shoulder and the drivers ought to be
ripped from their cars and beaten to a pulp about every other trip.
San Francisco bay area is absolutely spectacular with any kind of
riding you could want. But the cost of living is high, the local
governments are looney tunes and the population never stops growing.
On the other hand the racing is first rate, the good thing about
looney tunes governments is that they discourage land development in
the best places - such as Tunitas Creek Rd and west Old LaHonda Rd
etc.

So, there's good and bad about just about any place in California. The
central valley around Sacramento is a good place to live and work but
it is hot. SF bay area is a good place to live and work but you have
to be ready to change jobs at a moments notice (since '67 I've worked
at 41 jobs in electronics! My favorite was a company that hired me on
Friday and when I came to work on Monday the building was empty.)

Southern California is a great deal more stable, the weather is better
for most of the year but the riding isn't nearly as varied or scenic.
You makes your choice and you takes what you get.

Mark Fennell

01-03-1970, 11:51 AM

joseph santaniello wrote:
> I have I beileve enough info for most of the places I will check out,
> but I recently became interested in Santa Maria. Can someone fill me
> in on what the racing/riding scene is like there?

I hope you like wind! Seriously though, Santa Maria is a great place for
riding.

As for racing, it's good news/bad news... there's a somewhat active racing
community right in Santa Maria, but not as big as nearby San Luis Obispo (to
the north) or Santa Barbara (to the south). But the main drawback is that
you'll generally be at least 2-3 hours drive from most of the races. Santa
Maria, just like the rest of Central California, is in between the racing
hotbeds of LA/OC/San Diego and the Bay Area. But you could turn that around
and recognize that you usually have two equidistant race options every
weekend. Also, I'm pretty sure there are regular group rides and training
races in Santa Maria, but certainly you could find rides of any level ride
you wanted by going to SLO or SB. Plus, if you're into centuries, the
world-famous Solvang Century goes right through Santa Maria (it even has a
start location there).

> How far do you have to ride to be out of range of stop signs, etc.

Not far at all. Couple miles at most and you're in the Santa Ynez Valley
which has some of the best riding in the state. Like I've mentioned before
to someone in rbr, there's a reason many pro teams hold training camps
there.

> In general what is it like?

The town or the cycling? The town is growing fast, with lots of housing
tracts sprouting up. It's an agricultural economy mostly. Lot's of vineyards
and strawberry fields. The riding is really good and the weather over most
of the winter is better than the rest of the state.

> Any suggestions on particular things/places I should check out
> when I am in the area?

Go climb Figueroa Mtn. Visit some wineries. Go to Los Alamos and eat at
American Flat Bread Pizza (only open Fri/Sat nights). Visit SLO and SB. Go
to the beach.

Here are some cycling resources for the area....
http://www.slocycling.org
http://www.teamtailwinds.com
http://ridesb.com

Good luck!

Mark
http://marcofanelli.blogspot.com

Mark Fennell

01-03-1970, 11:51 AM

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 11:51 AM

One of the things I like best about Berkeley is that it drives Tom
nuts.

Just sayin'.

BFWG

01-03-1970, 11:51 AM

www.SharonFund.com

<joseph.santaniello@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1187730226.291138.324700@g4g2000hsf.googlegro ups.com...
> Hi All,
>
> My relocation plans are starting to take shape. I am going to
> California next week to have a look around. No bike riding, but plenty
> of driving. The plan is for me to see as much as I can so I can make a
> "short list" of potential areas which I will visit again in October
> with my wife and kids so they can see and make a final descision
> later.
>
> I have I beileve enough info for most of the places I will check out,
> but I recently became interested in Santa Maria. Can someone fill me
> in on what the racing/riding scene is like there? How far do you have
> to ride to be out of range of stop signs, etc. In general what is it
> like? Any suggestions on particular things/places I should check out
> when I am in the area?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Joseph
>

Lots of great riding in and around Santa Maria. And you'll be just 30
minutes south of San Luis Obispo, so even more options there, both road and
MTB (however, I've heard that most of the best single track riding on
Montana d'Oro and other locations is being closed to bikes lately). Beaches
are close (Pismo, Shell and Avila (I used to live in Avila Beach and love it
there... no matter the weather elsewhere, Avila almost always clears by
around noon... south facing beach I guess)) and lots of golf too (if that's
your bag). And one of THE best steak houses EVER, called the Hitching Post
out in Casmalia, about 20 minutes south and west of Santa Maria in the
middle of nowhere, but great open fire, red oak grilled beef
flesh....mmmm...

We used to ride out to the coast quite often, or down to Lompoc, or up to
Nipomo. Hwy 1 is just west out of town and leads to all sorts of nice
rides. But the wind is merciless... just get used to it, that's really the
only choice if you want to ride...

joseph.santaniello@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 11:51 AM

Thanks for all the info everyone. Some of it was even pertinent and
useful!

I'm back from my scouting trip. I drove over 2,600 miles (4,100km) all
over the place. I also went for about 10 hours of bike rides using a
folding 5 speed Dahon I borrowed. I wasn't planning on borrowing the
bike, so I brought no cycling clothes, but that was just as well. I
went on one ride in 110F (44C) for 2.5 hours in the hills north of
Fresno. The other rides were shorter and in slightly less demanding
conditions. I didn't go on any group rides, but I went on rides
recommended by local bike shops.

Here are a few observations (backed up by rigorous statistical
analysis and sound scientific reasoning, and as such incontrovertible
fact):

Riding on wide bike lanes is comforting in some ways, but something
I'd need getting used to. I am used to hearing the cars (and trucks!)
approching from the rear slow down when they get close. When they keep
their speed it triggers a panic response I'll need to retrain.

4-way stop signs blow. Stop signs in general blow. I'm used to yeild
signs. Something else to get used to.

On the highway in cars, lane discipline is a foreign concept of which
almost everyone seems completely oblivious.

On 2-lane roads, despite having cars with bags of power, most people
are very timid about passing. I drive a 1.4 liter Fiat at home, so the
3 liter BMW I borrowed was a dream for getting around slow pokes,
often as many as 5 or 6 at a time.

People who can't see over the steering wheel ought not drive huge
SUVs.

People from Oregon are morons.

Mexican people in mexican restarants, taco trucks, etc are exceedingly
friendly and talkative with Anglos like myself. I take this to mean
these places are infrequenlty (never?) visited by Anglos. The women in
these places were also particulary flirtatious.

Chrome 22's are apparently more desirable than not living in the
ghetto.

I now really now what the term Fatty Master means. I have realized
that I'm actually not that fat, nor particularly slow.

I saw very few cyclists, even though I made a point of testing
virtually all the local riding roads recommended by shops. My price
range keeps me out of the Bay Area and some of the more rideable LA
areas so I didn't even bother looking there. Perhaps I would have seen
more cyclists in those places.

Apart from the immediated downtown areas or by looking around at the
surrounding hills (if there are any), almost all the smaller cities
and towns are indistinguishable from one another. This means that
price and proximity to good riding roads (irrespective of the riding
scene) will probably guide my ultimate choice.

Joseph

Bret

01-03-1970, 11:56 AM

On Aug 22, 9:27 am, cyclin...@gmail.com wrote:

> Berkeley was really a hotbed of
> electronics and biotech development. The numbers of startups there
> were probably the highest in the nation and maybe the world. Now there
> are essentially no startups there, all of the electronics firms and
> all of the biotech firms are gone.

What did Berkeley actually do? Are you sure this wasn't a result of
market pressures? It must be expensive to set up shop in Berkeley. I
know someone who thinks their favorite BBQ restaurant in Longmont went
out of business because of a plot to Boulderize Longmont.

> One company I worked for was
> threatened closure for having "dangerous chemicals on site". What were
> these "dangerous chemicals"? Two unopened cans of motor oil used in
> the machine shop to lubricate the lath and mill bearings.

This isn't a commie plot, it's life in a litigious society and
someone's just covering their ass. When I worked at IBM in the late
70's, 3-in-1 oil was supposed to be handled with goggles and gloves.
When the department moved to a new building, it took a ride in the
"chemical safety truck".

Bret

Bleet Norf

01-03-1970, 11:56 AM

Oh, MEW MEW MEW

Whatever, a$$bite. You have no money, no clue, and no future. Enjoy
your time in hell.

> As Slave says, northern California is a great place to ride but a
> particularly nasty area to work in. The commies are intent on
> destroying any businesses and slowly managing to kill the goose that
> laid the golden egg. If you have a good job it is sometimes funny to
> watch them building their own nooses to hang themselves with. For
> instance, Berkeley insisted on giving students at Cal the right to
> vote in Berkeley elections. Berkeley was really a hotbed of
> electronics and biotech development. The numbers of startups there
> were probably the highest in the nation and maybe the world. Now there
> are essentially no startups there, all of the electronics firms and
> all of the biotech firms are gone. One company I worked for was
> threatened closure for having "dangerous chemicals on site". What were
> these "dangerous chemicals"? Two unopened cans of motor oil used in
> the machine shop to lubricate the lath and mill bearings.
>

Howard Kveck

01-03-1970, 12:01 PM

In article <1187843237.190623.174520@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.c om>,
rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:

> One of the things I like best about Berkeley is that it drives Tom
> nuts.
>
> Just sayin'.

Just for that, it's gonna be Double Guantanamo for you.

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

cyclintom@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 12:01 PM

On Aug 22, 9:27 pm, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> One of the things I like best about Berkeley is that it drives Tom
> nuts.
>
> Just sayin'.

This from someone that doesn't live or work there.

joseph.santaniello@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 12:01 PM

On Aug 23, 6:31 am, "BFWG" <B...@Comcast.net> wrote:
> www.SharonFund.com
>
> <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1187730226.291138.324700@g4g2000hsf.googlegro ups.com...
>
>
>
> > Hi All,
>
> > My relocation plans are starting to take shape. I am going to
> > California next week to have a look around. No bike riding, but plenty
> > of driving. The plan is for me to see as much as I can so I can make a
> > "short list" of potential areas which I will visit again in October
> > with my wife and kids so they can see and make a final descision
> > later.
>
> > I have I beileve enough info for most of the places I will check out,
> > but I recently became interested in Santa Maria. Can someone fill me
> > in on what the racing/riding scene is like there? How far do you have
> > to ride to be out of range of stop signs, etc. In general what is it
> > like? Any suggestions on particular things/places I should check out
> > when I am in the area?
>
> > Thanks!
>
> > Joseph
>
> Lots of great riding in and around Santa Maria. And you'll be just 30
> minutes south of San Luis Obispo, so even more options there, both road and
> MTB (however, I've heard that most of the best single track riding on
> Montana d'Oro and other locations is being closed to bikes lately). Beaches
> are close (Pismo, Shell and Avila (I used to live in Avila Beach and love it
> there... no matter the weather elsewhere, Avila almost always clears by
> around noon... south facing beach I guess)) and lots of golf too (if that's
> your bag). And one of THE best steak houses EVER, called the Hitching Post
> out in Casmalia, about 20 minutes south and west of Santa Maria in the
> middle of nowhere, but great open fire, red oak grilled beef
> flesh....mmmm...
>
> We used to ride out to the coast quite often, or down to Lompoc, or up to
> Nipomo. Hwy 1 is just west out of town and leads to all sorts of nice
> rides. But the wind is merciless... just get used to it, that's really the
> only choice if you want to ride...

Sounds nice. As far as wind goes, this weather station is about 5km
from my house:

http://tinyurl.com/258xmh

I'm looking forward to a steak...

Joseph

datakoll

01-03-1970, 12:01 PM

how long have you been in Norway?

Donald Munro

01-03-1970, 12:01 PM

Howard Kveck wrote:
> Just for that, it's gonna be Double Guantanamo for you.

Is Double Guantanamo some fiendish new LIVEDRUNK(tm) cocktail ?

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 12:01 PM

On Aug 22, 11:39 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com>

> > One of the things I like best about Berkeley is that it drives Tom
> > nuts.
>
> > Just sayin'.
>
> Just for that, it's gonna be Double Guantanamo for you.

I understand the health care there is excellent and I'd get to eat
lemon chicken.

joseph.santaniello@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 12:02 PM

On Aug 23, 2:51 pm, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Aug 22, 11:39 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com>
>
> > > One of the things I like best about Berkeley is that it drives Tom
> > > nuts.
>
> > > Just sayin'.
>
> > Just for that, it's gonna be Double Guantanamo for you.
>
> I understand the health care there is excellent and I'd get to eat
> lemon chicken.

Everyone in Cuba has great healthcare, right?

Joseph

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 12:02 PM

On Aug 23, 7:05 am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 23, 2:51 pm, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > On Aug 22, 11:39 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com>
>
> > > > One of the things I like best about Berkeley is that it drives Tom
> > > > nuts.
>
> > > > Just sayin'.
>
> > > Just for that, it's gonna be Double Guantanamo for you.
>
> > I understand the health care there is excellent and I'd get to eat
> > lemon chicken.
>
> Everyone in Cuba has great healthcare, right?

Of course not. Only detainees at Guantanamo get great healthcare and
lemon chicken.

Besides,
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/scpo/e0-d5-2.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/scpo/e0-d5-state.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/scpo/gdp-exp-percap.png

joseph.santaniello@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 12:02 PM

On Aug 23, 4:28 pm, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> how long have you been in Norway?

10+ years total.

Joseph

joseph.santaniello@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 12:02 PM

On Aug 23, 4:49 pm, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Aug 23, 7:05 am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
>
>
>
> <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 23, 2:51 pm, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 22, 11:39 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com>
>
> > > > > One of the things I like best about Berkeley is that it drives Tom
> > > > > nuts.
>
> > > > > Just sayin'.
>
> > > > Just for that, it's gonna be Double Guantanamo for you.
>
> > > I understand the health care there is excellent and I'd get to eat
> > > lemon chicken.
>
> > Everyone in Cuba has great healthcare, right?
>
> Of course not. Only detainees at Guantanamo get great healthcare and
> lemon chicken.
>
> Besides,http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/scpo/e0-d5-2.pnghttp://anonymous.coward.free.fr/scpo/e0-d5-state.pnghttp://anonymous.coward.free.fr/scpo/gdp-exp-percap.png

They get free haircuts too.

The by state plot was interesting. Can you make a per capita
expenditure one by state?

Joseph

Dan Connelly

01-03-1970, 12:02 PM

Shouldn't that be life expectancy at death?

Dan
> Besides,
> http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/scpo/e0-d5-2.png

datakoll

01-03-1970, 12:03 PM

On Aug 23, 12:26 pm, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 23, 4:28 pm, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > how long have you been in Norway?
>
> 10+ years total.
>
> Joseph

is that geographical or sexual? if geo you have training afoot caws it
is freaking HOT.
frankly, IMHO habitable california ends somewhere going south between
Mendocino and Jenner unless you factor coming (geo) from SA or have
access to cubic money.

SLAVE of THE STATE

01-03-1970, 12:03 PM

On Aug 23, 9:28 am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The by state plot was interesting. Can you make a per capita
> expenditure one by state?

"If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything." --
BF, 1759

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 12:03 PM

On Aug 23, 9:28 am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 23, 4:49 pm, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 23, 7:05 am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
>
> > <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Aug 23, 2:51 pm, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 22, 11:39 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com>
>
> > > > > > One of the things I like best about Berkeley is that it drives Tom
> > > > > > nuts.
>
> > > > > > Just sayin'.
>
> > > > > Just for that, it's gonna be Double Guantanamo for you.
>
> > > > I understand the health care there is excellent and I'd get to eat
> > > > lemon chicken.
>
> > > Everyone in Cuba has great healthcare, right?
>
> > Of course not. Only detainees at Guantanamo get great healthcare and
> > lemon chicken.
>
> > Besides,http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/scpo/e0-d5-2.pnghttp://anonymous.cowa...
>
> They get free haircuts too.
>
> The by state plot was interesting. Can you make a per capita
> expenditure one by state?

Can you supply the data?

Meanwhile,
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/scpo/insured.png

And, of course, the Weiner chart:
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/scpo/fat-vote.png

Jim Flom

01-03-1970, 12:03 PM

"Dan Connelly" <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m> wrote in message
news:bzjzi.21104$eY.4357@newssvr13.news.prodigy.ne t...
> Shouldn't that be life expectancy at death?

Is this a serious question?

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 12:03 PM

On Aug 23, 10:35 am, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
wrote:
> Shouldn't that be life expectancy at death?

Nope. It's a period measure, not a cohort measure.

Ewoud Dronkert

01-03-1970, 12:03 PM

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com schreef:
> Nope. It's a period measure, not a cohort measure.

Is that like: the average age of everyone that died in the last year?

--
E. Dronkert

Dan Connelly

01-03-1970, 12:03 PM

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
> On Aug 23, 10:35 am, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
> wrote:
>> Shouldn't that be life expectancy at death?
>
> Nope. It's a period measure, not a cohort measure.
>

Not many who were born in 2007 have as yet lived to be 80 years old. So for what year?

Dan

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 12:03 PM

On Aug 23, 11:01 am, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
wrote:
> rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Aug 23, 10:35 am, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
> > wrote:
> >> Shouldn't that be life expectancy at death?
>
> > Nope. It's a period measure, not a cohort measure.
>
> Not many who were born in 2007 have as yet lived to be 80 years old. So for what year?

Take the first course here to find out:
http://www.demog.berkeley.edu/courses/Fall2007courses.html

Donald Munro

01-03-1970, 12:03 PM

Dan Connelly
>> Not many who were born in 2007 have as yet lived to be 80 years old. So for what year?

rechungREMOVETHIS wrote:
> Take the first course here to find out:
> http://www.demog.berkeley.edu/courses/Fall2007courses.html

One more academic for the poor SLAVE to support.

Dan Connelly

01-03-1970, 12:03 PM

Jim Flom wrote:
> "Dan Connelly" <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m> wrote in message
> news:bzjzi.21104$eY.4357@newssvr13.news.prodigy.ne t...
>> Shouldn't that be life expectancy at death?
>
> Is this a serious question?
>
>

Well, I suppose I'll have to take Robert's course, after I enroll at Berkeley.

But the problem is there is no information for how long those born in 2007 are expected to live. There is, however, full information on how long those who died in 2006 were expected to live. But this is a problem: it includes those born all the way from, say, 1896 to 2006, hardly similar circumstances. You can track how long those who were born in, say, 1896 lived, then make educated guesses for successive years, with successively less complete data, until 2007, when you have essentially only infant mortality data, a small component.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy

Note that no allowance has been made in this calculation for expected changes in life expectancy in the future. Usually when life expectancy figures are quoted, they have been calculated like this with no allowance for expected future changes. This means that quoted life expectancy figures are not generally appropriate for calculating how long any given individual of a particular age is expected to live, as they effectively assume that current death rates will be "frozen" and not change in the future. Instead, life expectancy figures can be thought of as a useful statistic to summarize the current health status of a population. Some models do exist to account for the evolution of mortality (e.g., the Lee-Carter model[10]).

--------

So basically, "life expectency at birth" is not the expectation (barring outlier events like nuclear war) value of someone born today. It's of "an extinct cohort".

Dan

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 12:03 PM

Ah. Yes. I guess I'll amend what I wrote earlier.

Two of the things I like best about living and working in Berkeley
are: 1) it drives Tom nuts; and 2) Tom and Greg are paying my salary.
Thanks, guys.

SLAVE of THE STATE

01-03-1970, 12:04 PM

On Aug 23, 1:09 pm, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:

> Two of the things I like best about living and working in Berkeley
> are: 1) it drives Tom nuts; and 2) Tom and Greg are paying my salary.
> Thanks, guys.

*******!!! lol I don't care that much -- at least you're funny when
you're cruel.

Does your salary count in GDP estimates? I remember an old political
editorial cartoon that had a crane holding a football field sized
bolt. The crane said "Soviet Economy" and the bolt was "Soviet
GDP."

At least this bang-for-the-buck doesn't last a career lifetime:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070817/ap_on_re_us/bush_protesters_lawsuit_2

"They say don't sweat the small stuff. The small stuff is the only
stuff you can do anything about." -- BF, 1759

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 12:04 PM

On Aug 23, 2:10 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
wrote:

> From:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy

Oh dear. I'll have to edit that when I get a chance.

> So basically, "life expectency at birth" is not the expectation [...] value of
> someone born today. It's of "an extinct cohort".

Oh dear. I'll have to correct that when I get a chance.

SLAVE of THE STATE

01-03-1970, 12:04 PM

On Aug 23, 2:10 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
wrote:

> But the problem is there is no information for how long those born in 2007 are expected to live.

That isn't a problem unless (possibly) one is an actuary. But if
voluntarily paid actuaries aren't doing it, then you can make a
reasonable assumption it is problem not worth solving.

Why would you even care about such a thing?

What does this have to do with rbr getting up to its weekly "commie"
quota by Thursday evening, or riding/racing in CA?

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 12:04 PM

On Aug 23, 2:26 pm, Ewoud Dronkert <firstn...@lastname.net.invalid>
wrote:
> rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com schreef:
>
> > Nope. It's a period measure, not a cohort measure.
>
> Is that like: the average age of everyone that died in the last year?

Sorta, but not exactly. The simplest way (and the historical way) to
calculate life expectancy looks at the mortality of people born in the
same year who died in different years. This produces a cohort life
expectancy. The more complicated way looks at the mortality of people
born in different years who died in the same year. That's a period
measure, sometimes called a synthetic cohort measure.

It's not quite the average age of everyone who died in the last year
because populations can grow and (sometimes) shrink. The period life
expectancy is related to the weighted average age of death last year
(or any other period of time you're interested in).

Life expectancy is a conditional expectation.

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 12:04 PM

On Aug 23, 2:27 pm, I wrote:
> On Aug 23, 2:10 pm, Dan Connelly wrote:
>
> > From:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy
>
> Oh dear. I'll have to edit that when I get a chance.

Last night I asked more than 1% of the world's PhD demographers to
rate the section of the Wikipedia entry that Dan cited for content and
accuracy. The average rating was a just a bit higher than 6 out of 10.

Donald Munro

01-03-1970, 12:04 PM

SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
> "If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything." --
> BF, 1759

BF must have been aboard the starship Enterprise at some stage.

Dan Connelly

01-03-1970, 12:04 PM

SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
> On Aug 23, 2:10 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
> wrote:
>
>> But the problem is there is no information for how long those born in 2007 are expected to live.
>
> That isn't a problem unless (possibly) one is an actuary. But if
> voluntarily paid actuaries aren't doing it, then you can make a
> reasonable assumption it is problem not worth solving.
>
> Why would you even care about such a thing?

Because I care how long I am expected to live, not previous generations.

Jim Flom

01-03-1970, 12:06 PM

"Dan Connelly" <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m> wrote in message
news:4kszi.1612$vU4.1325@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...
> SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
>>
>> Why would you even care about such a thing?
>
> Because I care how long I am expected to live, not previous generations.

http://www.nmfn.com/tn/learnctr--lifeevents--longevity_end

JF

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org

01-03-1970, 12:06 PM

On Aug 23, 8:33 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
wrote:
> SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
>
> > On Aug 23, 2:10 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
> > wrote:
>
> >> But the problem is there is no information for how long those born in 2007 are expected to live.
>
> > That isn't a problem unless (possibly) one is an actuary. But if
> > voluntarily paid actuaries aren't doing it, then you can make a
> > reasonable assumption it is problem not worth solving.
>
> > Why would you even care about such a thing?
>
> Because I care how long I am expected to live, not previous generations.

If you really want a 100% accurate answer to that
question, I know a non-statistical method, but I don't
think you're going to like it.

Ben
Humming the M*A*S*H theme

SLAVE of THE STATE

01-03-1970, 12:06 PM

On Aug 23, 8:33 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
wrote:
> SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
>
> > On Aug 23, 2:10 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
> > wrote:
>
> >> But the problem is there is no information for how long those born in 2007 are expected to live.
>
> > That isn't a problem unless (possibly) one is an actuary. But if
> > voluntarily paid actuaries aren't doing it, then you can make a
> > reasonable assumption it is problem not worth solving.
>
> > Why would you even care about such a thing?
>
> Because I care how long I am expected to live, not previous generations.

There might be other things you could look at to give just as good an
idea, and maybe better, since sweeping data can as much obscure (for
the individual) as reveal.

I think I'm ready to start signing Ol' Man River.

Ah gits weary,
An' sick o' tryin',
Ah'm tired o' livin',
And skeered o' dyin',
But Ol' Man River,
He jes' keeps rollin' along!

Jim Flom

01-03-1970, 12:06 PM

"Jim Flom" <jim.flomREMOVE@telus.net> wrote in message
news:Xitzi.649$bO6.340@edtnps89...
> "Dan Connelly" <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m> wrote in message
> news:4kszi.1612$vU4.1325@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
>>>
>>> Why would you even care about such a thing?
>>
>> Because I care how long I am expected to live, not previous generations.
>
> http://www.nmfn.com/tn/learnctr--lifeevents--longevity_end

More specifically

http://www.nmfn.com/tn/learnctr--lifeevents--longevity

SLAVE of THE STATE

01-03-1970, 12:06 PM

On Aug 23, 9:40 pm, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
> "Dan Connelly" <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m> wrote in message
>
> news:4kszi.1612$vU4.1325@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...
>
> > SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
>
> >> Why would you even care about such a thing?
>
> > Because I care how long I am expected to live, not previous generations.
>
> http://www.nmfn.com/tn/learnctr--lifeevents--longevity_end

Maybe Dan's epitaph will be:

"BURIED BY THE LAW OF AVERAGES"

Sorry for the morbid humor.

Howard Kveck

01-03-1970, 12:06 PM

In article <1187931329.024872.231610@r23g2000prd.googlegroups. com>,
Bret <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Aug 22, 9:27 am, cyclin...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Berkeley was really a hotbed of
> > electronics and biotech development. The numbers of startups there
> > were probably the highest in the nation and maybe the world. Now there
> > are essentially no startups there, all of the electronics firms and
> > all of the biotech firms are gone.
>
> What did Berkeley actually do? Are you sure this wasn't a result of
> market pressures? It must be expensive to set up shop in Berkeley. I
> know someone who thinks their favorite BBQ restaurant in Longmont went
> out of business because of a plot to Boulderize Longmont.
>
> > One company I worked for was
> > threatened closure for having "dangerous chemicals on site". What were
> > these "dangerous chemicals"? Two unopened cans of motor oil used in
> > the machine shop to lubricate the lath and mill bearings.
>
> This isn't a commie plot, it's life in a litigious society and
> someone's just covering their ass. When I worked at IBM in the late
> 70's, 3-in-1 oil was supposed to be handled with goggles and gloves.
> When the department moved to a new building, it took a ride in the
> "chemical safety truck".

Alternately, this could have been a bit of overstating the actual event (I know
that'd be hard to believe). The county (and sometimes the fire department) come
around and do inspections to see how people are handling various materials, like
oils. They recognize that oil is (1) flammable and (2) possibly damaging to the
ground water and/or the soil if it's spilled (both reasons for oil qualifying as a
"dangerous chemical"). So they prefer that it's in a fire cabinet or on containment
platforms (plastic tray that will catch oil spills). It's highly unlikely that those
people would threaten anyone with being "threatened closure" on a first visit.
Perhaps after a few repeated infractions they might but it's still unlikely. At least
that's been my experience in all the machine shops I've worked at (in three different
counties here in the Bay Area) and that of friends in other shops. The inspectors are
very flexible.

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Dan Connelly

01-03-1970, 12:06 PM

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:

> It's not quite the average age of everyone who died in the last year
> because populations can grow and (sometimes) shrink. The period life
> expectancy is related to the weighted average age of death last year
> (or any other period of time you're interested in).

Consider:

p(t, t0) dt = number of people born between time t0 and t0 + dt who are alive at time t

then I can evaluate:

rd(t, t0) = -del p(t, t0) / del t (the present death rate of people born at time t0)

(del: partial derivative)

then the probability that someone born at time t0 will die between t and t + dt is:

f(t, t0) dt = [rd(t, t0) / p(t, t0)] dt

If I assume this rate is time-independent, I assume it represents a universal death rate for age (t - t0). Then

f'(age) = f(t, t - age)

Then I can calculate a life expectancy:

y = integral(0 to infinity) age * f'(age) d age

Which obviously differs from the life expectancy of someone born at any moment of time, including today.

Dan

datakoll

01-03-1970, 12:07 PM

read the herein materail carefully, Joseph. These are Californians
talkin' not Norwegans

Dan Connelly

01-03-1970, 12:07 PM

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:

> Humming the M*A*S*H theme
>

My threshold for pain is even lower, so this method doesn't work for me.

Ryan Cousineau

01-03-1970, 12:07 PM

In article <1187963108.034208.77190@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.c om>,
rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:

> On Aug 23, 2:27 pm, I wrote:
> > On Aug 23, 2:10 pm, Dan Connelly wrote:
> >
> > > From:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy
> >
> > Oh dear. I'll have to edit that when I get a chance.
>
> Last night I asked more than 1% of the world's PhD demographers to
> rate the section of the Wikipedia entry that Dan cited for content and
> accuracy. The average rating was a just a bit higher than 6 out of 10.

I recently learned that sample size is much more important than sample
proportion. 60% sounds like a fairly good mark.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Doug Anderson

01-03-1970, 12:07 PM

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com writes:

> On Aug 23, 2:27 pm, I wrote:
> > On Aug 23, 2:10 pm, Dan Connelly wrote:
> >
> > > From:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy
> >
> > Oh dear. I'll have to edit that when I get a chance.
>
> Last night I asked more than 1% of the world's PhD demographers to
> rate the section of the Wikipedia entry that Dan cited for content and
> accuracy. The average rating was a just a bit higher than 6 out of 10.

Was it a randomly chosen sample of slightly more than 1% of the
world's Ph.D. demographers?

If not, then surely those same demographers can tell you that their
opinions don't necessarily reflect those of the other 99%.

Bob Schwartz

01-03-1970, 12:07 PM

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
> Last night I asked more than 1% of the world's PhD demographers to
> rate the section of the Wikipedia entry that Dan cited for content and
> accuracy. The average rating was a just a bit higher than 6 out of 10.

As dumbasses go, you're one in a billion. Approximately.

Bob Schwartz

Donald Munro

01-03-1970, 12:08 PM

Dan Connelly wrote:
> My threshold for pain is even lower, so this method doesn't work for me.

Its a problem if testing your lactate threshold exceeds your
pain threshold.

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 12:08 PM

On Aug 24, 10:49 am, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
wrote:
> If I assume this rate is time-independent,

> y = integral(0 to infinity) age * f'(age) d age

> Which obviously differs from the life expectancy of someone born at any moment of
> time, including today.

You assumed this rate is time-independent.

But your math is, of course, correct. We distinguish between a cohort
life expectancy and a period life expectancy and the context is
generally so clear that we don't specify it. When we write "the life
expectancy at birth in 2000" and "life expectancy at birth in 2001"
we're talking about period rates. When we write "the life expectancy
at birth for the cohort of 1857" we're talking about the cohort rate.

It's sort of like the convention for saying "life expectancy" instead
of "life expectancy at birth." Notice in your equation "integral(0 to
infinity)". If you took integral(X to infinity) that would be
expectation of life at age X, conditional on having survived to age X.
That's why I referred to life expectancy as a conditional expected
value.

Your partial derivative is the hazard rate. Your p(t,t0)dt is the
survivorship function. Life expectancy calculations are the same as
MTBF calculations. Your issue is congruent with what are called
censored observations.

I think we went over this a couple of years ago.

Dan Connelly

01-03-1970, 12:08 PM

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
> On Aug 24, 10:49 am, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
> wrote:
>> If I assume this rate is time-independent,
>
>> y = integral(0 to infinity) age * f'(age) d age
>
>> Which obviously differs from the life expectancy of someone born at any moment of
>> time, including today.
>
> You assumed this rate is time-independent.
>
> But your math is, of course, correct. We distinguish between a cohort
> life expectancy and a period life expectancy and the context is
> generally so clear that we don't specify it. When we write "the life
> expectancy at birth in 2000" and "life expectancy at birth in 2001"
> we're talking about period rates. When we write "the life expectancy
> at birth for the cohort of 1857" we're talking about the cohort rate.
>
> It's sort of like the convention for saying "life expectancy" instead
> of "life expectancy at birth." Notice in your equation "integral(0 to
> infinity)". If you took integral(X to infinity) that would be
> expectation of life at age X, conditional on having survived to age X.
> That's why I referred to life expectancy as a conditional expected
> value.
>
> Your partial derivative is the hazard rate. Your p(t,t0)dt is the
> survivorship function. Life expectancy calculations are the same as
> MTBF calculations. Your issue is congruent with what are called
> censored observations.

Okay, now we're aligned.

>
> I think we went over this a couple of years ago.
>

I think we did....

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 12:09 PM

On Aug 24, 2:09 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
>
> > Last night I asked more than 1% of the world's PhD demographers to
> > rate the section of the Wikipedia entry that Dan cited for content and
> > accuracy. The average rating was a just a bit higher than 6 out of 10.
>
> I recently learned that sample size is much more important than sample
> proportion. 60% sounds like a fairly good mark.

We agreed 6 out of 10 is a D.

You're right about sample size, but my dining room table is only so
big.

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 12:09 PM

On Aug 24, 2:06 pm, Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovet...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Was it a randomly chosen sample of slightly more than 1% of the
> world's Ph.D. demographers?

Hell no.

> If not, then surely those same demographers can tell you that their
> opinions don't necessarily reflect those of the other 99%.

That's surely true. We disproportionately represent the PhD
demographers who train other demographers.

SLAVE of THE STATE

01-03-1970, 12:09 PM

On Aug 24, 2:32 pm, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Aug 24, 2:09 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > Last night I asked more than 1% of the world's PhD demographers to
> > > rate the section of the Wikipedia entry that Dan cited for content and
> > > accuracy. The average rating was a just a bit higher than 6 out of 10.
>
> > I recently learned that sample size is much more important than sample
> > proportion. 60% sounds like a fairly good mark.
>
> We agreed 6 out of 10 is a D.

If "60%" is a D, how do you test/grade to uncover exceptional
performers?

I'm guessing "the last points" have increasing difficulty and are very
hard to get -- that is the way I've seen it done sometimes. When I
went to school, point scoring was often more "linear in points,"
meaning harder questions simply had more total points available. 60%
was often a solid A. I suppose either way can work fine.

I remember the first midterm in one of the required upper division
major classes (over 100 students). There were oddly two humps in the
distribution, and the upper one was around 30%. There was one person
in the 80's, and another one in the 90's. I remember that test in
particular because it woke a lot of people up. I think it was the
lowest average score exam that I ever took (or where I actually knew
the dist/avg).

Ryan Cousineau

01-03-1970, 12:09 PM

In article <1187991134.778419.30670@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.c om>,
rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:

> On Aug 24, 2:09 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
> >
> > > Last night I asked more than 1% of the world's PhD demographers to
> > > rate the section of the Wikipedia entry that Dan cited for content and
> > > accuracy. The average rating was a just a bit higher than 6 out of 10.
> >
> > I recently learned that sample size is much more important than sample
> > proportion. 60% sounds like a fairly good mark.
>
> We agreed 6 out of 10 is a D.
>
> You're right about sample size, but my dining room table is only so
> big.

I smell a grant application...

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Doug Anderson

01-03-1970, 12:09 PM

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com writes:

> On Aug 24, 2:06 pm, Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovet...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Was it a randomly chosen sample of slightly more than 1% of the
> > world's Ph.D. demographers?
>
> Hell no.
>
> > If not, then surely those same demographers can tell you that their
> > opinions don't necessarily reflect those of the other 99%.
>
> That's surely true. We disproportionately represent the PhD
> demographers who train other demographers.

That's unlikely to be the _only_ bias in your sample!

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 12:09 PM

On Aug 24, 3:17 pm, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
wrote:

> As dumbasses go, you're one in a billion. Approximately.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/903260cec15a69a3

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org

01-03-1970, 12:10 PM

On Aug 24, 3:29 pm, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Aug 24, 3:17 pm, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
> > As dumbasses go, you're one in a billion. Approximately.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/903260cec15a69a3

Please. Enough with the boasting about your 6000 girlfriends,
5 in the Bay Area alone.

Bob Schwartz

01-03-1970, 12:10 PM

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
> On Aug 24, 3:17 pm, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>> As dumbasses go, you're one in a billion. Approximately.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/903260cec15a69a3

Yes, it is important to get the scale right.

The estimate of the world population during the 2007 Tour was
6.6 billion(1). How many PhD demographers did you have around
your dining room table discussing an inaccurate (imagine that!)
Wikipedia entry. I'll let Connelly complete the math, including
estimates as a function of time.

Bob Schwartz

(1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population - The Gold
Standard for accuracy.

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 12:10 PM

On Aug 24, 3:45 pm, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org>
wrote:

> Please. Enough with the boasting about your 6000 girlfriends,
> 5 in the Bay Area alone.

http://www.canoe.ca/BasketballChamberlain/oct13_wil2.html

datakoll

01-03-1970, 12:10 PM

having recently returned to mediaville after a long abcess
i was intrigued by the California Angels mlb annucking team speaking
babytalk and turning common wording like seams into seami drool drool
like two common street whores standing in an alley hustling drunks.

Donald Munro

01-03-1970, 12:13 PM

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> I smell a grant application...

The Amsterdam breweries and brothels must have enhanced
your senses.

Ryan Cousineau

01-03-1970, 12:13 PM

In article <46d052e5$0$22313$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com>,
Donald Munro <fat-dumbass@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > I smell a grant application...
>
> The Amsterdam breweries and brothels must have enhanced
> your senses.

Greece was awesome. I hardly did any riding, but I drank a lot of beer.

Oddly, Heineken is one of the most popular brands,

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Bob Schwartz

01-03-1970, 12:15 PM

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> Greece was awesome. I hardly did any riding, but I drank a lot of beer.
>
> Oddly, Heineken is one of the most popular brands,

One sip of Retsina will tell you why foreign products are preferred.

Shame you didn't go anyplace that served andouillette.

Bob Schwartz

Howard Kveck

01-03-1970, 12:15 PM

In article <M35Ai.50759$YL5.27735@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>,
Bob Schwartz <bob.schwartz@REMOVEsbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > Greece was awesome. I hardly did any riding, but I drank a lot of beer.
> >
> > Oddly, Heineken is one of the most popular brands,
>
> One sip of Retsina will tell you why foreign products are preferred.
>
> Shame you didn't go anyplace that served andouillette.

I'd think you could get it in Amsterdam. After all, ED's description of typical
Dutch food is, "Pretty much like French, only with more mayonnaise."

--
tanx,
Howard

Fabergé eggs are elegant but I prefer Fabergé bacon.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Michael Press

01-03-1970, 12:15 PM

In article
<M35Ai.50759$YL5.27735@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>,
Bob Schwartz <bob.schwartz@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > Greece was awesome. I hardly did any riding, but I drank a lot of beer.
> >
> > Oddly, Heineken is one of the most popular brands,
>
> One sip of Retsina will tell you why foreign products are preferred.

I enjoy retsina wine. Best served ~10 deg C.

The story I hear is that straight grain wood was dear,
so wine casks were made with whatever and caulked with resin.

> Shame you didn't go anyplace that served andouillette.

This news group is permanently scarred.

--
Michael Press

datakoll

01-03-1970, 12:15 PM

I said, "It smells like Asia"
She said, " that's kelp stupid."

Ryan Cousineau

01-03-1970, 12:15 PM

In article <YOURhoward-0018D6.19162425082007@comcast.dca.giganews.com>,
Howard Kveck <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:

> In article <M35Ai.50759$YL5.27735@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>,
> Bob Schwartz <bob.schwartz@REMOVEsbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > > Greece was awesome. I hardly did any riding, but I drank a lot of beer.
> > >
> > > Oddly, Heineken is one of the most popular brands,
> >
> > One sip of Retsina will tell you why foreign products are preferred.

You don't know the half of it. First off, let me say that the local
brew, Mythos, is a perfectly nice lager.

Second, as part of the Feast of the Assumption celebrations, there was a
mass at the local church dedicated to Mary. In a very civilized
tradition, after church there were cookies and hard liquor. In a
profoundly insane tradition, the liquor in question was mastica.

It's mastic-flavoured liquor.

Now, I'll drink an awful lot, and it is true that I drank two different
cups of this stuff on two different occasions. Maybe three. But it's not
very good at all.

> > Shame you didn't go anyplace that served andouillette.

I ate "local sausage" about 5 times. Not really spicy, but really
flavourful. One of my favourite meals, though I had so much good food in
Greece it beggared the mind. There was this grilled octopus at a cafe in
Athens....

> I'd think you could get it in Amsterdam. After all, ED's description of
> typical
> Dutch food is, "Pretty much like French, only with more mayonnaise."

True story: we stayed with my wife's cousin, the well-traveled, urbane
Malou, on our short overnight layover in Amsterdam. She asked where we
wanted to eat, and I said something like "I'd like to have a traditional
Dutch dinner." She looked at me like I had two heads and said there
hardly was such a thing. We had some wonderful Spanish food, instead.

Greece is pretty much the opposite: all Greek food, all the time.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Ewoud Dronkert

01-03-1970, 12:15 PM

Ryan Cousineau schreef:
> Howard Kveck <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>> I'd think you could get it in Amsterdam. After all, ED's description of
>> typical
>> Dutch food is, "Pretty much like French, only with more mayonnaise."
>
> True story: we stayed with my wife's cousin, the well-traveled, urbane
> Malou, on our short overnight layover in Amsterdam. She asked where we
> wanted to eat, and I said something like "I'd like to have a traditional
> Dutch dinner." She looked at me like I had two heads and said there
> hardly was such a thing. We had some wonderful Spanish food, instead.

"Dutch cuisine" is usually associated with rich, fat winterfood for
farmers. A highlight would be: mashed kale and potatoes with gravy,
bacon and sausage. See
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afbeelding:Boerenkool_stamppot.jpg

And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dutch_cuisine

--
E. Dronkert

Jim Flom

01-03-1970, 12:17 PM

"SLAVE of THE STATE" <gwhite@ti.com> wrote...
>
> Maybe Dan's epitaph will be:
>
> "BURIED BY THE LAW OF AVERAGES"

Better: "He beat the odds."

Tom Kunich

01-03-1970, 12:17 PM

"Jim Flom" <jim.flomREMOVE@telus.net> wrote in message
news:DFhAi.2085$bO6.1835@edtnps89...
> "SLAVE of THE STATE" <gwhite@ti.com> wrote...
>>
>> Maybe Dan's epitaph will be:
>>
>> "BURIED BY THE LAW OF AVERAGES"
>
> Better: "He beat the odds."

Knowing Dan that probably wasn't what he was beating........

Tom Kunich

01-03-1970, 12:17 PM

"SLAVE of THE STATE" <gwhite@ti.com> wrote in message
news:1188146513.741170.240820@r23g2000prd.googlegr oups.com...
>>
>> We agreed 6 out of 10 is a D.
>
> If "60%" is a D, how do you test/grade to uncover exceptional
> performers?

The problem is that on multiple choice tests 60% is usually the average
score for those who simply pick more or less randomly.

Ewoud Dronkert

01-03-1970, 12:17 PM

SLAVE of THE STATE schreef:
> 60% was often a solid A.

Huh. Our grades are always 1-10: 10 is perfect, 1 for showing up. Six
means sufficient to pass, a 5 is not.

Re. "1 for showing up", in the first year of secondary school I had a
French teacher who gave short, unexpected dictations (dictées) where
every error cost a point. She usually stopped counting at 0, or -1 if
you had the nerve to protest or were otherwise disruptive.

--
E. Dronkert

SLAVE of THE STATE

01-03-1970, 12:17 PM

On Aug 26, 10:21 am, Ewoud Dronkert <firstn...@lastname.net.invalid>
wrote:
> SLAVE of THE STATE schreef:
>
> > 60% was often a solid A.
>
> Huh. Our grades are always 1-10: 10 is perfect, 1 for showing up. Six
> means sufficient to pass, a 5 is not.

The connection between % on exams to grade varied by particular test
and instructor. I was pointing out about where it came out on the
average. There was also (often) a volume aspect to difficulty -- some
tests simply could not be finished in the time allotted by "C" or even
"B" students.

Anyway, if Robert had answered that the tests simply examine the
students grasp of all the material presented, and there is no explicit
attempt to "sort out high performers," then he would have gotten an
"A." An "oh dear" would have been a "B," since I know what that
means, but it is less precise.

> Re. "1 for showing up", in the first year of secondary school I had a
> French teacher who gave short, unexpected dictations (dictées) where
> every error cost a point. She usually stopped counting at 0, or -1 if
> you had the nerve to protest or were otherwise disruptive.

Is French a required class? (I had to take English -- I really
struggled and still do to this day.)

Michael Press

01-03-1970, 12:17 PM

In article <46d1b820$0$236$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>,
Ewoud Dronkert <firstname@lastname.net.invalid>
wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau schreef:
> > Howard Kveck <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> >> I'd think you could get it in Amsterdam. After all, ED's description of
> >> typical
> >> Dutch food is, "Pretty much like French, only with more mayonnaise."
> >
> > True story: we stayed with my wife's cousin, the well-traveled, urbane
> > Malou, on our short overnight layover in Amsterdam. She asked where we
> > wanted to eat, and I said something like "I'd like to have a traditional
> > Dutch dinner." She looked at me like I had two heads and said there
> > hardly was such a thing. We had some wonderful Spanish food, instead.
>
> "Dutch cuisine" is usually associated with rich, fat winterfood for
> farmers.

This reminded me of the novel The Rattle-Rat by
Jan Willem van de Wetering.
Grijpstra and de Gier are detached to investigate
a murder in Friesland. Memorably funny. The author's
take on Frieslanders is dry, vivid, and scandalous.

> A highlight would be: mashed kale and potatoes with gravy,
> bacon and sausage. See
> http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afbeelding:Boerenkool_stamppot.jpg
>
> And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dutch_cuisine

--
Michael Press

Bob Schwartz

01-03-1970, 12:17 PM

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau schreef:
>> Howard Kveck <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>>> I'd think you could get it in Amsterdam. After all, ED's description
>>> of typical Dutch food is, "Pretty much like French, only with more
>>> mayonnaise."
>>
>> True story: we stayed with my wife's cousin, the well-traveled, urbane
>> Malou, on our short overnight layover in Amsterdam. She asked where we
>> wanted to eat, and I said something like "I'd like to have a
>> traditional Dutch dinner." She looked at me like I had two heads and
>> said there hardly was such a thing. We had some wonderful Spanish
>> food, instead.
>
> "Dutch cuisine" is usually associated with rich, fat winterfood for
> farmers. A highlight would be: mashed kale and potatoes with gravy,
> bacon and sausage. See
> http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afbeelding:Boerenkool_stamppot.jpg
>
> And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dutch_cuisine

At last, someone takes pictures if their food. Even if it is
Wikipedia.

The one meal I've had in Holland was at the airport. Our daughter
picked the restaurant. The potatoes were served with fritessaus.

http://www.cvccbike.com/food/fritessaus.jpg

Bob Schwartz

Ryan Cousineau

01-03-1970, 12:17 PM

In article <13d3m4asqcbbm8f@corp.supernews.com>,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> "SLAVE of THE STATE" <gwhite@ti.com> wrote in message
> news:1188146513.741170.240820@r23g2000prd.googlegr oups.com...
> >>
> >> We agreed 6 out of 10 is a D.
> >
> > If "60%" is a D, how do you test/grade to uncover exceptional
> > performers?
>
> The problem is that on multiple choice tests 60% is usually the average
> score for those who simply pick more or less randomly.

Tom, I think you're writing a bit imprecisely here.

Assuming a typical 4-answer test with each question worth the same, the
random score is 25%.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Donald Munro

01-03-1970, 12:19 PM

Tom Kunich wrote:
>> The problem is that on multiple choice tests 60% is usually the average
>> score for those who simply pick more or less randomly.

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> Tom, I think you're writing a bit imprecisely here.
> Assuming a typical 4-answer test with each question worth the same, the
> random score is 25%.

I seem to recall the new field of Kunichian (im)probability theory
has been discussed before on rbr.

SLAVE of THE STATE

01-03-1970, 12:19 PM

On Aug 26, 8:03 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
> In article <13d3m4asqcbb...@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> > "SLAVE of THE STATE" <gwh...@ti.com> wrote in message
> >news:1188146513.741170.240820@r23g2000prd.googlegr oups.com...
>
> > >> We agreed 6 out of 10 is a D.
>
> > > If "60%" is a D, how do you test/grade to uncover exceptional
> > > performers?
>
> > The problem is that on multiple choice tests 60% is usually the average
> > score for those who simply pick more or less randomly.
>
> Tom, I think you're writing a bit imprecisely here.
>
> Assuming a typical 4-answer test with each question worth the same, the
> random score is 25%.

None of the classes (in my major) were multiple guess, even the lower
division stuff.

Tom Kunich

01-03-1970, 12:19 PM

"Ryan Cousineau" <rcousine@sfu.ca> wrote in message
news:rcousine-64A83B.20032826082007@news.telus.net...
> In article <13d3m4asqcbbm8f@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>> "SLAVE of THE STATE" <gwhite@ti.com> wrote in message
>> news:1188146513.741170.240820@r23g2000prd.googlegr oups.com...
>> >>
>> >> We agreed 6 out of 10 is a D.
>> >
>> > If "60%" is a D, how do you test/grade to uncover exceptional
>> > performers?
>>
>> The problem is that on multiple choice tests 60% is usually the average
>> score for those who simply pick more or less randomly.
>
> Tom, I think you're writing a bit imprecisely here.
>
> Assuming a typical 4-answer test with each question worth the same, the
> random score is 25%.

For crying out loud Ryan. Have you ever taken a test? If you have a
correctly written multiple choice question you'd be correct. But how many
tests like that have you seen? In most college level courses the multiple
choice answers usually are two completely incorrect and another two, often
there's no question about which one of those it is even if you haven't
studied the subject at all.

Why do you suppose all of the technology is leaving the USA?

Ryan Cousineau

01-03-1970, 12:20 PM

In article <13sAi.3734$JD.3308@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net>,
Bob Schwartz <bob.schwartz@REMOVEsbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> > Ryan Cousineau schreef:
> >> Howard Kveck <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> >>> I'd think you could get it in Amsterdam. After all, ED's description
> >>> of typical Dutch food is, "Pretty much like French, only with more
> >>> mayonnaise."
> >>
> >> True story: we stayed with my wife's cousin, the well-traveled, urbane
> >> Malou, on our short overnight layover in Amsterdam. She asked where we
> >> wanted to eat, and I said something like "I'd like to have a
> >> traditional Dutch dinner." She looked at me like I had two heads and
> >> said there hardly was such a thing. We had some wonderful Spanish
> >> food, instead.
> >
> > "Dutch cuisine" is usually associated with rich, fat winterfood for
> > farmers. A highlight would be: mashed kale and potatoes with gravy,
> > bacon and sausage. See
> > http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afbeelding:Boerenkool_stamppot.jpg

Holy Regrettable Food, Batman!

http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/spec.html

An old favourite, courtesy James Lileks:

(if you only have time to visit one gallery, you could do worse than
this one):

http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/10PM/index.html

> > And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dutch_cuisine
>
> At last, someone takes pictures if their food. Even if it is
> Wikipedia.

http://www.airlinemeals.net/

What I ate for lunch on August 5th:

http://flickr.com/photos/rcousine/1069137107/

> The one meal I've had in Holland was at the airport. Our daughter
> picked the restaurant. The potatoes were served with fritessaus.
>
> http://www.cvccbike.com/food/fritessaus.jpg

Bob, I'm thinking you haven't been using enough corporal punishment on
your children.

My parenting skills? Best summed up thus: my 15-pound dog gave me four
stitches and was allowed to live.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Howard Kveck

01-03-1970, 12:20 PM

In article <13sAi.3734$JD.3308@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net>,
Bob Schwartz <bob.schwartz@REMOVEsbcglobal.net> wrote:

> The one meal I've had in Holland was at the airport. Our daughter
> picked the restaurant. The potatoes were served with fritessaus.
>
> http://www.cvccbike.com/food/fritessaus.jpg

I thought fritessaus went extinct around the time the liopleurodon did. Sadly, no.

--
tanx,
Howard

Fabergé eggs are elegant but I prefer Fabergé bacon.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Donald Munro

01-03-1970, 12:20 PM

Howard Kveck wrote:
> I thought fritessaus went extinct around the time the liopleurodon did.
> Sadly, no.

Its like the abominable snowman, it keeps coming back.

Donald Munro

01-03-1970, 12:20 PM

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> My parenting skills? Best summed up thus: my 15-pound dog gave me four
> stitches and was allowed to live.

You can hardly blame it if attach stuff like this to the poor thing
when you take it for a walk:

http://www.baronbob.com/hopsholster.htm

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org

01-03-1970, 12:20 PM

On Aug 27, 12:29 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:

> Holy Regrettable Food, Batman!
>
> http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/spec.html
>
> An old favourite, courtesy James Lileks:
>
> (if you only have time to visit one gallery, you could do worse than
> this one):
>
> http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/10PM/index.html
>

http://www.amalah.com/photos/the_company_cookbook/index.html

Although semi-inspired by Lileks, I actually
like this one better. Among other things, the
cookbook is contemporary, not a 1962 horrorshow.
People are making this stuff RIGHT NOW.
They may even be eating it.

The truly frightening thing is how many ways there
are to combine sausage, eggs, and cheese, each of
which is yummy in its own right, into something
which looks utterly disgusting.

Ben

Ryan Cousineau

01-03-1970, 12:20 PM

In article <46d28934$0$31162$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com>,
Donald Munro <fat-dumbass@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > My parenting skills? Best summed up thus: my 15-pound dog gave me four
> > stitches and was allowed to live.
>
> You can hardly blame it if attach stuff like this to the poor thing
> when you take it for a walk:
>
> http://www.baronbob.com/hopsholster.htm

I only do that as training!

Official party game of rbr:

http://www.baronbob.com/lightning-game.htm

I bet it's even more fun after a few drinks.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Ewoud Dronkert

01-03-1970, 12:23 PM

SLAVE of THE STATE schreef:
> Is French a required class?

In my day it was, for the first 3 years. I don't think there is such a
distinction in America but in Holland there are 3 levels of secondary
education, taking 4, 5 and 6 years. The first year usually comprises
level 1/2 and level 2/3 combined classes. Completely separate classes
are formed after the first year. I was competent enough to take the 6 yr
version, the one giving direct access to university education. In the
other levels, I don't think any language other than Dutch and English
was compulsory after the 2nd year.

Today, the whole system has changed and I'm afraid I don't know much
about it.

--
E. Dronkert

Ryan Cousineau

01-03-1970, 12:23 PM

In article <46d312fe$0$227$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>,
Ewoud Dronkert <firstname@lastname.net.invalid> wrote:

> SLAVE of THE STATE schreef:
> > Is French a required class?
>
> In my day it was, for the first 3 years. I don't think there is such a
> distinction in America but in Holland there are 3 levels of secondary
> education, taking 4, 5 and 6 years. The first year usually comprises
> level 1/2 and level 2/3 combined classes. Completely separate classes
> are formed after the first year. I was competent enough to take the 6 yr
> version, the one giving direct access to university education. In the
> other levels, I don't think any language other than Dutch and English
> was compulsory after the 2nd year.
>
> Today, the whole system has changed and I'm afraid I don't know much
> about it.

As for the modern Dutch educational system, I can only say that the
level of English proficiency it almost universally confers seems to be
so impressive as to render the Dutch language redundant.

There were English-only signs at key points in Schipol, as well as
places where the English was more prominent than the Dutch. The
people-movers said "mind your step" in English only. I think the guy who
sold me an outrageously priced sandwich and grape soda spoke better
English than I did, though I hesitate to assess his Dutch.

I would like to congratulate the Netherlands on becoming a member of the
Anglosphere, and I have to say that my general impression is that your
country is just cute as a button.

If I could afford to do so, I would be happy to live there,

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Steven L. Sheffield

01-03-1970, 12:25 PM

On 08/27/2007 07:36 PM, in article 13d6v1o52erpaae@corp.supernews.com, "Tom
Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> "Ryan Cousineau" <rcousine@sfu.ca> wrote in message
> news:rcousine-64A83B.20032826082007@news.telus.net...
>> In article <13d3m4asqcbbm8f@corp.supernews.com>,
>> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>
>>> "SLAVE of THE STATE" <gwhite@ti.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1188146513.741170.240820@r23g2000prd.googlegr oups.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> We agreed 6 out of 10 is a D.
>>>>
>>>> If "60%" is a D, how do you test/grade to uncover exceptional
>>>> performers?
>>>
>>> The problem is that on multiple choice tests 60% is usually the average
>>> score for those who simply pick more or less randomly.
>>
>> Tom, I think you're writing a bit imprecisely here.
>>
>> Assuming a typical 4-answer test with each question worth the same, the
>> random score is 25%.
>
> For crying out loud Ryan. Have you ever taken a test? If you have a
> correctly written multiple choice question you'd be correct. But how many
> tests like that have you seen? In most college level courses the multiple
> choice answers usually are two completely incorrect and another two, often
> there's no question about which one of those it is even if you haven't
> studied the subject at all.

But Tom ... If the test takers are eliminating 2 of the 4 answers right off
the bat, and then choosing between the other two, then it's not a RANDOM
score ...

> Why do you suppose all of the technology is leaving the USA?

Because people like you keep demonstrating how incompetent the United States
really is?

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot flahute dot com [foreword] slash

Tom Kunich

01-03-1970, 12:25 PM

"Steven L. Sheffield" <stevens@veloworks.com> wrote in message
news:C2F8EAC8.61EBC%stevens@veloworks.com...
> On 08/27/2007 07:36 PM, in article 13d6v1o52erpaae@corp.supernews.com,
> "Tom
> Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>> Why do you suppose all of the technology is leaving the USA?
>
> Because people like you keep demonstrating how incompetent the United
> States
> really is?

What is it that YOU do for a living again - help me here - I'm sure it is
something productive.

Steven L. Sheffield

01-03-1970, 12:25 PM

On 08/27/2007 09:00 PM, in article 13d73u4hb6sa681@corp.supernews.com, "Tom
Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> "Steven L. Sheffield" <stevens@veloworks.com> wrote in message
> news:C2F8EAC8.61EBC%stevens@veloworks.com...
>> On 08/27/2007 07:36 PM, in article 13d6v1o52erpaae@corp.supernews.com,
>> "Tom
>> Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>
>>> Why do you suppose all of the technology is leaving the USA?
>>
>> Because people like you keep demonstrating how incompetent the United
>> States
>> really is?
>
> What is it that YOU do for a living again - help me here - I'm sure it is
> something productive.

I make money out of red and green numbers.

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot flahute dot com [foreword] slash

datakoll

01-03-1970, 12:25 PM

well, I'm going this winter. My 544 and I drove out several years ago
and down Route One. I rather like Medocino, the Lost Coast and the
Mtns but Monterey Bay area may be more entertaining.
Joseph's ideal is rolling out and down onto the surface to go. Ace
move. I have that here in Florida, 365 and flat.
I lived in northern PA before moving south. I ran 8000 miles on the
beach (I counted) curing a lung infection. Went without AC and ice.
The internal AC, blood circulation under the skin surface, increased
capacity so running in 100 degree heat is no big deal. My body fat
quotient is a negative 10%. It's hot but the heat doesn't overwhelm my
function. I'm not sure if I can walk barefoot in the snow now.
Rig up a foil hot box with infrared, an ex bike, and try it!
stock up on polyester clothing.

SLAVE of THE STATE

01-03-1970, 12:25 PM

On Aug 27, 8:00 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "Steven L. Sheffield" <stev...@veloworks.com> wrote in messagenews:C2F8EAC8.61EBC%stevens@veloworks.com.. .
>
> > On 08/27/2007 07:36 PM, in article 13d6v1o52erp...@corp.supernews.com,
> > "Tom
> > Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> >> Why do you suppose all of the technology is leaving the USA?
>
> > Because people like you keep demonstrating how incompetent the United
> > States
> > really is?
>
> What is it that YOU do for a living again - help me here - I'm sure it is
> something productive.

There may be hope for Steven. I don't think he is a demographer or
stargazer.

I haven't found a taker for my pets. When I took Anthro, the
professor told the class to never have a primate as a pet. I wouldn't
listen and had to learn the hard way.

Howard Kveck

01-03-1970, 12:28 PM

In article <1188323802.178586.219540@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups. com>,
SLAVE of THE STATE <gwhite@ti.com> wrote:

> I haven't found a taker for my pets. When I took Anthro, the
> professor told the class to never have a primate as a pet. I wouldn't
> listen and had to learn the hard way.

'Ave you got a lissence fer yer minkey?

--
tanx,
Howard

Faberge eggs are elegant but I prefer Faberge bacon.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Donald Munro

01-03-1970, 12:28 PM

SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
> I haven't found a taker for my pets. When I took Anthro, the
> professor told the class to never have a primate as a pet. I wouldn't
> listen and had to learn the hard way.

Yes, but you'd need an awful lot of monkeys and a herring or two
to produce a power/cadence chart randomly.

Tom Kunich

01-03-1970, 12:31 PM

"Michael Press" <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:rubrum-BF7CAB.18034028082007@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com ...
>
> This reminded me of the novel The Rattle-Rat by
> Jan Willem van de Wetering.
> Grijpstra and de Gier are detached to investigate
> a murder in Friesland. Memorably funny. The author's
> take on Frieslanders is dry, vivid, and scandalous.

Dang, I read that one and can't remember a word of it.

datakoll

01-03-1970, 12:44 PM

dutch food is death: beyond, the ditch eat it for lunch, dinner and
breakfast.

what Joe is needs is Jobst Brandt's guide to scenic California rides!
does this exist?

Michael Press

01-03-1970, 12:44 PM

Ryan Cousineau

01-03-1970, 12:44 PM

In article <1188537630.563555.59150@x40g2000prg.googlegroups.c om>,
"bjw@mambo.ucolick.org" <bjw@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote:

> On Aug 27, 12:29 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
>
> > Holy Regrettable Food, Batman!
> >
> > http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/spec.html
> >
> > An old favourite, courtesy James Lileks:
> >
> > (if you only have time to visit one gallery, you could do worse than
> > this one):
> >
> > http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/10PM/index.html
> >
>
> http://www.amalah.com/photos/the_company_cookbook/index.html
>
> Although semi-inspired by Lileks, I actually
> like this one better. Among other things, the
> cookbook is contemporary, not a 1962 horrorshow.
> People are making this stuff RIGHT NOW.
> They may even be eating it.
>
> The truly frightening thing is how many ways there
> are to combine sausage, eggs, and cheese, each of
> which is yummy in its own right, into something
> which looks utterly disgusting.
>
> Ben

I'm a little confused. I've gotten about 10, 15 pages in, and the only
non-cheese dish is "Green Dessert."

I've also concluded that there's virtually no way to make a casserole
look non-regrettable.

My own contribution to regrettable food is this cake:

http://wiredcola.blogspot.com/2004/03/props-to-our-director-of-non.html

In all its glazed glory:

http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine/wiredcola/pix/pinecake-l.jpg

Tastes as good as it looks,

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

datakoll

01-03-1970, 12:47 PM

I'll have the pork fat garnee and a pitcher of heavy cream

Howard Kveck

01-03-1970, 12:48 PM

In article <rcousine-9AC63D.17565731082007@news.telus.net>,
Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca> wrote:

> My own contribution to regrettable food is this cake:
>
> http://wiredcola.blogspot.com/2004/03/props-to-our-director-of-non.html
>
> In all its glazed glory:
>
> http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine/wiredcola/pix/pinecake-l.jpg
>
> Tastes as good as it looks,

Not regrettable:

http://www.poubelle.com/images/Dec2002/puzzlecake.jpg

Scroll down for more info:
http://www.poubelle.com/butterpig/archives/000004.html

--
tanx,
Howard

Fabergé eggs are elegant but I prefer Fabergé bacon.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

datakoll

01-03-1970, 12:48 PM

is there a cal rides guidebook?
I lost the link to the coast plateau ride? anyone know?
what's the train cost in Holland?
pas the rinds...

Howard Kveck

01-03-1970, 12:54 PM

In article <1188743271.985937.93290@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.co m>,
datakoll <datakoll@yahoo.com> wrote:

> is there a cal rides guidebook?

For northern California, try "Roads to Ride" and "Roads to Ride South" by Grant
Peterson and John Kluge.

--
tanx,
Howard

Faberge eggs are elegant but I prefer Faberge bacon.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

datakoll

01-03-1970, 12:54 PM

On Sep 2, 11:06 am, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> In article <1188743271.985937.93...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.co m>,
>
> datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > is there a cal rides guidebook?
>
> For northern California, try "Roads to Ride" and "Roads to Ride South" by Grant
> Peterson and John Kluge.
>
> --
> tanx,
> Howard
>
> Faberge eggs are elegant but I prefer Faberge bacon.
>
> remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

tanx Howard!
gee, I want to ride the plataeu ride. I believe the route is up around
below Mendocino. Was posted here or in RBT. There's a fairing equiped
recumbent and a map.

anyone know where Joeseph is? was he mugged at the Shasta rest area?

datakoll

01-03-1970, 12:56 PM

BURP!

Joseph! Here's the poop.
World Catalog at the local library in Advanced search:
WorldCat results for: kw: bicycle and kw: California and ((dt= "bks")
or (dt= "map") or (dt= "url")). (Save Search)
Records found: 1,095 Rank by: Number of Libraries
Posted to 100 titles for the malformed-several internet cites and maps
and historic materials published before bridges were invented

Roads to ride :
a bicyclist's topographic guide to Alameda, Contra Costa and Marin
counties /
Author: Petersen, Grant.; Anderson, Mary.
Publication: Berkeley, Calif. : Heyday Books, 1984
Document: English : Book

Roads to ride South : a bicyclist's topographic guide to San Mateo,
Santa Clara and Santa Cruz Counties /
Author: Petersen, Grant.; Kluge, John. Publication: Berkeley, Calif. :
Heyday Books, 1985
Document: English : Map Book
Libraries Worldwide: 46
· NorthernCalifa biking :150 of the best road and trail rides /
Author: Brown, Ann Marie.
· Publication: Emeryville, CA : Avalon Travel Pub., 2003, ©2002

Ho! for Yo-Semite by foot, horseback, horse-stage, horseless
carriage, bicycle & steam locomotive :
eleven original accounts of early day travel to Yosemite Valley /
Author: Johnston, Hank.
Publication: Yosemite National Park, Calif. : Yosemite Association,
2000
Document: English : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 24
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The Asset Forfeiture Program
a case study of the Bicycle Club Casino : hearing before the Permanent
Subcommittee on Investigations of the Committee on Governmental
Affairs, United States Senate, One Hundred Fourth Congress, second
session, March 19, 1996.
Corp Author: United States., Congress., Senate., Committee on
Governmental Affairs., Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations.
Publication: Washington : U.S. G.P.O. : For sale by the U.S. G.P.O.,
Supt. of Docs., Congressional Sales Office, 1996
Document: English : Book : Microform
Libraries Worldwide: 22
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Touring the Los Angeles area by bicycle /
Author: Powers, Peter.
Publication: Eugene, Or. : Terragraphics, 1992
Document: English : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 22
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Road biking, northern California :
road rides for the serious cyclist /
Author: Nagiecki, John.; Grob, Kimberly.; Grob, Kimberly.
Publication: Guilford, Conn. : Falcon, 2002
Document: English : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 21
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Bicycle trails of southern California :
the definitive work on where to bicycle in southern California /
Author: Kurk, David.; Miller, Robert H.
Publication: Los Angeles : Price/Stern/Sloan, 1974
Document: English : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 21
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Sonoma County bike trails /
Author: Neumann, Phyllis L.
Publication: Penngrove, Calif. : Sonoma County Bike Trails, 1978
Document: English : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 21
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A bicyclist's guide to Bay Area history /
Author: O'Hare, Carol.; Olsen, Nancy,
Publication: Sunnyvale, CA : Bear Flag Books, 1985
Document: English : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 21
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Bicycling through the Mother Lode.
Publication: [Sacramento] : California State Dept. of Parks and
Recreation ; [California] : American Revolution Bicentennial
Commission of California, 1975
Document: English : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 21
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Mountain biking the San Francisco Bay Area :
a guide to the Bay Area's greatest off-road bicycle rides /
Author: Jackson, Lorene.
Publication: Guilford, CT : Globe Pequot Press, 2004
Document: English : Book

Mountain biking Southern California /
Author: Ross, Mark A., 1968-; Fine, Brad L.,
Publication: Helena, Mont. : Falcon, 1999
Document: English : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 30
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Mountain bike! Southern California : a guide to the classic
trails /
Author: Story, David, 1962- Publication: Birmingham, Ala. : Menasha
Ridge Press, ; [Guilford Conn] : Distributed by The Globe Pequot
Press. 2001
Document: English : Book Internet Resource
Libraries Worldwide: 27
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Bicycling California's spine :
touring the length of the Sierra Nevada /
Author: Paul, Bil, 1943-
Publication: San Francisco, Calif. : Alchemist/Light Pub., 1981
Document: English : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 26
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The Bay Area Ridge Trail :
ridgetop adventures above San Francisco Bay /
Author: Rusmore, Jean.
Publication: Berkeley : Wilderness Press, 2002
Document: English : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 40
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.. Bicycling Baja :
cyclists' guide to major scenic and historic routes through fabulous
Baja California /
Author: Wong, Bonnie, 1946-
Publication: San Diego : Sunbelt Publications, 1988
Document: English : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 40
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Bay area bike rides /
Author: Hosler, Ray.
Publication: San Francisco : Chronicle Books, 1990
Document: English : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 39
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Pico Street stories & the fortunes of Pedro /
Author: Tufts, Kingsley, 1907-
Publication: Santa Barbara, Calif. : J. Daniel & Co., 1998, 1984
Document: English : Book : Fiction
Libraries Worldwide: 38
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Bay Area bike rides /
Author: Hosler, Ray.
Publication: San Francisco : Chronicle Books, 1994
Document: English : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 37
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Bay Area bike rides /
Author: Hosler, Ray.
Publication: San Francisco : Chronicle Books, 2002
Document: English : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 34
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The best bike rides in California /
Author: Grob, Kimberly.
Publication: Old Saybrook, Conn. : Globe Pequot Press, 1995
Document: English : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 33
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50 southern California bicycle trips /
Author: Schad, Jerry.; Krupp, Don.,
Publication: Beaverton, Or. : Touchstone Press, 1976
Document: English : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 33

Roads to ride South : a bicyclist's topographi