Announcement - Frank Krygowski defeated in prolonged debate

[Greens]

Frank throws in the towel...
"Not that there's much point to this. The anonymous "Greens" is
absolutely intent on ignoring any and all data, and on mocking anyone
who knows more than he does - which, it seems, is a huge number of
people."


""Greens," if you want to discuss something more substantial than your
phobias and your weird videos, let me know.
!!!!>>>>>>Until then, I'm hoping to
bow out.<<<<<< !!!!emphasis by Greens

Oh, and good luck on designing your odd little gizmo. Let us know
when you've got it working. ;-)

- Frank Krygowski"

He ignores my reply which was...

"128 dead per million hours of sky diving. Sky diving is done for very brief
periods. Probably 2 minutes from jumping out of the plane to touching down.
Bicycling can and is done for up to 8 hours a day or up to 240 times longer
per incident.

Look at it another way. I would think a lifetime skydiver might have a
thousand jumps. At 2 minutes each that means 2000 minutes. That's 33.333
hours of skydiving in his whole life and he's a prolific sky diver.

A cyclist is probably going to go for at least a 2 hour ride per event. In
one 3 month summer period he might rack up 180 hours on the bike. In 40
years of riding that would be 7200 hours of cycling in an active cylist's
lifetime. It would take the cyclist about 555.555 lifetimes of riding that
way to get killed. Of course they don't mention how Failure analysis
associates came to those numbers and I'm suspicious of them as they're not
from a university or government agency.

The skydiver would have to live 30,000 lifetimes to get a million hours of
skydiving. He only has to skydive 7769 hours to die skydiving. That would be
233 lifetimes to die skydiving and that makes skydiving a little more than
twice as dangerous as cycling. Of course all these numbers go to **** if the
skydiving period per jump is more or less than 2 minutes and I'd need to
know how that engineering firm came up with those numbers. "

Using Frank's own statistics, I've shown that cycling is indeed dangerous.
With a few adjustments to key numbers like length in minutes of individual
jumps or hours bicycles ridden, any sport's dangerousness can be adjusted to
suit whoever it serves. Frank consistently avoids this fact. There's an old
saying regarding stats. "Figures don't lie, but liars can figure."

Frank Krygowski defeated 9-5-2007 using his own favorite tool, statistics.

[landotter]

On Sep 7, 10:08 am, "Greens" <p...@adelphia.net> wrote:
> [wankery snip]

/plonk

[_]

On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 11:08:00 -0400, Greens wrote:

> Frank throws in the towel...
> "Not that there's much point to this. The anonymous "Greens" is
> absolutely intent on ignoring any and all data, and on mocking anyone
> who knows more than he does - which, it seems, is a huge number of
> people."
>
>
> ""Greens," if you want to discuss something more substantial than your
> phobias and your weird videos, let me know.
> !!!!>>>>>>Until then, I'm hoping to
> bow out.<<<<<< !!!!emphasis by Greens
>
> Oh, and good luck on designing your odd little gizmo. Let us know
> when you've got it working. ;-)
>
> - Frank Krygowski"
>
> He ignores my reply which was...
>
> "128 dead per million hours of sky diving. Sky diving is done for very brief
> periods. Probably 2 minutes from jumping out of the plane to touching down.
> Bicycling can and is done for up to 8 hours a day or up to 240 times longer
> per incident.
>
> Look at it another way. I would think a lifetime skydiver might have a
> thousand jumps. At 2 minutes each that means 2000 minutes. That's 33.333
> hours of skydiving in his whole life and he's a prolific sky diver.
>
> A cyclist is probably going to go for at least a 2 hour ride per event. In
> one 3 month summer period he might rack up 180 hours on the bike. In 40
> years of riding that would be 7200 hours of cycling in an active cylist's
> lifetime. It would take the cyclist about 555.555 lifetimes of riding that
> way to get killed. Of course they don't mention how Failure analysis
> associates came to those numbers and I'm suspicious of them as they're not
> from a university or government agency.
>
> The skydiver would have to live 30,000 lifetimes to get a million hours of
> skydiving. He only has to skydive 7769 hours to die skydiving. That would be
> 233 lifetimes to die skydiving and that makes skydiving a little more than
> twice as dangerous as cycling. Of course all these numbers go to **** if the
> skydiving period per jump is more or less than 2 minutes and I'd need to
> know how that engineering firm came up with those numbers. "
>
> Using Frank's own statistics, I've shown that cycling is indeed dangerous.
> With a few adjustments to key numbers like length in minutes of individual
> jumps or hours bicycles ridden, any sport's dangerousness can be adjusted to
> suit whoever it serves. Frank consistently avoids this fact. There's an old
> saying regarding stats. "Figures don't lie, but liars can figure."
>
> Frank Krygowski defeated 9-5-2007 using his own favorite tool, statistics.

I haven't seen any of this stuff before, but the number of hours a person
has to cycle per death does equal something around 400 to 500 years of
cycling non-stop, 24 hours per day. If the poster is correct that one
skydiver dies for every 7769 hours of skydiving, then skydiving is indeed
much more dangerous than cycling, and Krygowski (as usual) is correct.
This seems to be borne out by typical figures which show that the death
rate for skydivers is something like 125 per million hours (cycling is 0.25
or so per million hours).

(He might well also be correct in deciding that arguing with the "Greens"
entity is a waste of time; anyone who is so innumerate is unlikely to be
capable of persuasion through reason. I wonder if this is a nym-shift by
our other Krygowski anklebiter, also known for his innumeracy and happy
dismissal of data that disagrees with his opinion.)

[SMS]

Greens wrote:

<snip>

> Frank Krygowski defeated 9-5-2007 using his own favorite tool, statistics.

Uh, what make you think that comparisons of skydiving versus bicycling
are any more statistically relevant than comparisons of injuries from
driving, deaths from cancer, injuries from falling at home, etc.

You spent a lot of effort for nothing. Frank has no credibility when it
comes to using statistics, you've not shown anything that all of us on
this group haven't known for many years.

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Sep 7, 10:07 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 7, 10:08 am, "Greens" <p...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
> > [wankery snip]
>
> /plonk

Aw, c'mon, it's amusing to see Gasbag Krygowski get a dose of his own
BS.

[Paul Myron Hobson]

> On Sep 7, 10:08 am, "Greens" <p...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>> [wankery snip]

landotter wrote:
> /plonk
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Uhhh...yeah. What he said

[Patrick Lamb]

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 15:07:23 -0000, landotter <landotter@gmail.com>
wrote:
>On Sep 7, 10:08 am, "Greens" <p...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>> [wankery snip]
>
>/plonk
>

Beat ya to it -- I killfiled this guy last week.

Email address works as is.

[Greens]

"_" <jtayNOSPAMlor@hfDONTSENDMESPAMx.andara.com> wrote in message
news:ln3h9fpnwom3$.1xwk0j3o4onjk$.dlg@40tude.net.. .
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 11:08:00 -0400, Greens wrote:
>
>> Frank throws in the towel...
>> "Not that there's much point to this. The anonymous "Greens" is
>> absolutely intent on ignoring any and all data, and on mocking anyone
>> who knows more than he does - which, it seems, is a huge number of
>> people."
>>
>>
>> ""Greens," if you want to discuss something more substantial than your
>> phobias and your weird videos, let me know.
>> !!!!>>>>>>Until then, I'm hoping to
>> bow out.<<<<<< !!!!emphasis by Greens
>>
>> Oh, and good luck on designing your odd little gizmo. Let us know
>> when you've got it working. ;-)
>>
>> - Frank Krygowski"
>>
>> He ignores my reply which was...
>>
>> "128 dead per million hours of sky diving. Sky diving is done for very
>> brief
>> periods. Probably 2 minutes from jumping out of the plane to touching
>> down.
>> Bicycling can and is done for up to 8 hours a day or up to 240 times
>> longer
>> per incident.
>>
>> Look at it another way. I would think a lifetime skydiver might have a
>> thousand jumps. At 2 minutes each that means 2000 minutes. That's 33.333
>> hours of skydiving in his whole life and he's a prolific sky diver.
>>
>> A cyclist is probably going to go for at least a 2 hour ride per event.
>> In
>> one 3 month summer period he might rack up 180 hours on the bike. In 40
>> years of riding that would be 7200 hours of cycling in an active cylist's
>> lifetime. It would take the cyclist about 555.555 lifetimes of riding
>> that
>> way to get killed. Of course they don't mention how Failure analysis
>> associates came to those numbers and I'm suspicious of them as they're
>> not
>> from a university or government agency.
>>
>> The skydiver would have to live 30,000 lifetimes to get a million hours
>> of
>> skydiving. He only has to skydive 7769 hours to die skydiving. That would
>> be
>> 233 lifetimes to die skydiving and that makes skydiving a little more
>> than
>> twice as dangerous as cycling. Of course all these numbers go to **** if
>> the
>> skydiving period per jump is more or less than 2 minutes and I'd need to
>> know how that engineering firm came up with those numbers. "
>>
>> Using Frank's own statistics, I've shown that cycling is indeed
>> dangerous.
>> With a few adjustments to key numbers like length in minutes of
>> individual
>> jumps or hours bicycles ridden, any sport's dangerousness can be adjusted
>> to
>> suit whoever it serves. Frank consistently avoids this fact. There's an
>> old
>> saying regarding stats. "Figures don't lie, but liars can figure."
>>
>> Frank Krygowski defeated 9-5-2007 using his own favorite tool,
>> statistics.
>
> I haven't seen any of this stuff before, but the number of hours a person
> has to cycle per death does equal something around 400 to 500 years of
> cycling non-stop, 24 hours per day. If the poster is correct that one
> skydiver dies for every 7769 hours of skydiving, then skydiving is indeed
> much more dangerous than cycling, and Krygowski (as usual) is correct.
> This seems to be borne out by typical figures which show that the death
> rate for skydivers is something like 125 per million hours (cycling is
> 0.25
> or so per million hours).
>
> (He might well also be correct in deciding that arguing with the "Greens"
> entity is a waste of time; anyone who is so innumerate is unlikely to be
> capable of persuasion through reason. I wonder if this is a nym-shift by
> our other Krygowski anklebiter, also known for his innumeracy and happy
> dismissal of data that disagrees with his opinion.)

"Nym shift" - I don't know what that is. I'll assume you think I'm some
person who was familiar with Frank and assumed the name of Greens to be
anonymous. No. I had never heard of Frank before this.

No. I am not modifying the numbers to make cycling seem more dangerous. My
results (and I didn't check them) made cycling look half as dangerous as
skydiving using Frank's supplied data. Frank's data was incomplete. I had to
guess at what the data suppliers called sky diving. (explained in the first
post) Is it the period of planning the jump, the ground school, the flight
and the jump itself or is it just the time from leaving the plane to
landing? I chose that time period and guessed it was 2 minutes to touchdown.
It might be shorter or longer. The data source didn't explain how they came
up with this number.

If you think all this picky stuff is stupid, you, like Frank just don't
understand numbers and stats. In stats it's important to understand how the
numbers are arrived at. If you don't like examining the stats, you really
have no business promoting anything based on your half assed understanding
of them.

My guess is Frank never bothers to truly understand how they get the
numbers. That's why he hangs on to this stuff about cycling deaths per hour
vs driving deaths per hour. It sounds thorough (to halfwits). Is is in fact
half baked. Frank doesn't like to talk about the auto's much more functional
capabilities in western life. Frank doesn't like to compare cycling to other
somewhat dangerous sports like football, soccer, tennis. He compares those
to knitting. All he wants to talk about is driving and swimming.

I haven't examined his stats regarding swimming. For instance are they
including people who fell in the water when they were fishing as swimming?
Swimming may have a bad safety record, but why compare your sport to
something with a bad record. Why hasn't something been done to improve
swimming safety? Probably a lot of drownings happen in unsupervised areas.
Drunkeness is no doubt often involved. Falling overboard - is that in there
as swimming?

[Greens]

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:46e1bd03$0$27217$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Greens wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Frank Krygowski defeated 9-5-2007 using his own favorite tool,
>> statistics.
>
> Uh, what make you think that comparisons of skydiving versus bicycling are
> any more statistically relevant than comparisons of injuries from driving,
> deaths from cancer, injuries from falling at home, etc.
>
> You spent a lot of effort for nothing. Frank has no credibility when it
> comes to using statistics, you've not shown anything that all of us on
> this group haven't known for many years.

Looks to me like your flame took no effort and makes no real statement
except something vague about Frank's credibility. Also you can't figure out
why I bothered to...and blah, blah.

It's a discussion. This is a newsgroup.

[Tim McNamara]

In article <mbCdnYpvQJayXnzbnZ2dnUVZ_oesnZ2d@adelphia.com>,
"Greens" <prbj@adelphia.net> wrote:

> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:46e1bd03$0$27217$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> > Greens wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >> Frank Krygowski defeated 9-5-2007 using his own favorite tool,
> >> statistics.
> >
> > Uh, what make you think that comparisons of skydiving versus
> > bicycling are any more statistically relevant than comparisons of
> > injuries from driving, deaths from cancer, injuries from falling at
> > home, etc.
> >
> > You spent a lot of effort for nothing. Frank has no credibility
> > when it comes to using statistics, you've not shown anything that
> > all of us on this group haven't known for many years.
>
> Looks to me like your flame took no effort and makes no real
> statement except something vague about Frank's credibility. Also you
> can't figure out why I bothered to...and blah, blah.

Looks to me like you're another Internet kook, "Greens."

> It's a discussion. This is a newsgroup.

And you are neither interested in a discussion or in learning something
new.

I join those who say "plonk."