Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

[Dane Buson]

Review for: Solidlights 1203d
Found at: http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php
Cost: 155 GBP

Note: TLDR summary at the bottom of article.

For the last two years, I've been using a Lumotec Oval Plus and have
been quite happy with it. Still, I can admit to a small amount of envy
for my batteried brethren who spray the darkness indiscriminately with
decawatts of light. On the other hand, no amount of shininess could
compel me to use one again considering I often go on night time rides
that last longer than five hours.

While lurking in the uk.rec.cycling newsgroup I heard discussion of a
company Solidlights that made LED dynamo headlights with dual LEDs.
Dual 3 watt LEDs. Evidently the Audaxers and commuters who had stumped
up the cash for it were delighted with it.

A dynamo light with two 3 watt LEDs that ramped up as your speed did? A
flashing and a solid mode? A five minute standlight using the same
LEDs (thus making adjusting the beam angle much easier).

With one thing and another, I finally decided to jump in and buy it July
1st. A short week later it had been shipped across the pond to sunny
Seattle and was sitting in my grubby hands.

I first attempted to mount it on the fork. Previously with the Lumotec
mounting there wasn't a problem, even with cantilever brakes.
Unfortunately with the lower boxier shape of the 1203d, the front brake
cable was rubbing the power cable and would have sawed through in time.
[1] A *loooong* fork mount bracket and a spacer later I was happier with
it.

I went on a ride with some friends that night that lasted until after
midnight. I was quite happy with the light, though the limited
stretches of darkness (it was mostly urban riding except for a short
stretch) forbade a really good test. One thing to note is that at low
speeds (6-8 mph) it cast a *much* larger degree of light than my old
lights.

Oh, that mounting bracket? It broke the very next day. Damn potmetal.
Currently the light is attached to a handlebar mounting bracket, and I
haven't had any problems with it.

I went on a longer ride with more stretches of real darkness, and this
is where the light really shined. When I was catching up with a lead
group, one of them commented that he thought I was a car coming from
behind [3]. The light outperformed every battery headlight I have used
previously (including a dual 6w / 12w halogen system). It was
definitely not better than some of the 20-25W HID systems I've seen, but
I was certainly carrying the brightest light of anyone there.

Ease of use: It has a sealed button on the side. Press once to turn
on, once more to change to blinking, once more to turn off. Dead
simple.

Quality of construction: It's a box. A nice sealed, gasketed, sturdy
box. I have a feeling it will last quite a while, though it will win no
awards for style. It has a locking style connector leading to the
dynamo, very nice.

Mounting: Available with a standard fork crown mounting or set up for a
handlebar bracket.

Drag: When it's in blink mode, the drag is unnoticeable. This makes it
particularly attractive for cloudy days and see-me urban riding. The
drag is barely perceptible when on, though I have no doubt it's there.
Theoretically at max speed, I'm losing approximately 12 watts [4]. It's
probably a touch more. On the other hand, I weigh 200 pounds, and I'm
only losing those watts when I'm already near top speed. Smaller riders
might not be so sanguine about that.

Some impressions: This is definitely the product of a small engineering
company. The serial number on my light is 000214, so they're not many
out there. On the other hand, the dynamo lights are evidently an
outgrowth of their battery lights IIRC, so it is a tested design.

Conclusion: I love the light, and really look forward to using it for
my winter commute. It was expensive, but I'm very satisfied with it so
far. I'll see if I can't write a followup review once the darkness has
fallen over our fair city.

TLDR [2]: Light is awesome, but expensive. It is the ne plus ultra of
dynamo headlights. I would absolutely buy it again.

[1] A side or bottom exit for the cable would have alleviated this
problem.
[2] Too Long Didn't Read
[3] This was on a closed bike trail, so I think I scared him.
[4] Shimano DH-3N71 - reputedly about 50% efficient

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
The party adjourned to a hot tub, yes. Fully clothed, I might add.
-- IBM employee, testifying in California State Supreme Court

[Nate Knutson]

On Sep 7, 12:55 pm, Dane Buson <d...@unseen.edu> wrote:
> Review for: Solidlights 1203d
> Found at:http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php
> Cost: 155 GBP
>
> Note: TLDR summary at the bottom of article.
>
> For the last two years, I've been using a Lumotec Oval Plus and have
> been quite happy with it. Still, I can admit to a small amount of envy
> for my batteried brethren who spray the darkness indiscriminately with
> decawatts of light. On the other hand, no amount of shininess could
> compel me to use one again considering I often go on night time rides
> that last longer than five hours.
>
> While lurking in the uk.rec.cycling newsgroup I heard discussion of a
> company Solidlights that made LED dynamo headlights with dual LEDs.
> Dual 3 watt LEDs. Evidently the Audaxers and commuters who had stumped
> up the cash for it were delighted with it.
>
> A dynamo light with two 3 watt LEDs that ramped up as your speed did? A
> flashing and a solid mode? A five minute standlight using the same
> LEDs (thus making adjusting the beam angle much easier).
>
> With one thing and another, I finally decided to jump in and buy it July
> 1st. A short week later it had been shipped across the pond to sunny
> Seattle and was sitting in my grubby hands.
>
> I first attempted to mount it on the fork. Previously with the Lumotec
> mounting there wasn't a problem, even with cantilever brakes.
> Unfortunately with the lower boxier shape of the 1203d, the front brake
> cable was rubbing the power cable and would have sawed through in time.
> [1] A *loooong* fork mount bracket and a spacer later I was happier with
> it.
>
> I went on a ride with some friends that night that lasted until after
> midnight. I was quite happy with the light, though the limited
> stretches of darkness (it was mostly urban riding except for a short
> stretch) forbade a really good test. One thing to note is that at low
> speeds (6-8 mph) it cast a *much* larger degree of light than my old
> lights.
>
> Oh, that mounting bracket? It broke the very next day. Damn potmetal.
> Currently the light is attached to a handlebar mounting bracket, and I
> haven't had any problems with it.
>
> I went on a longer ride with more stretches of real darkness, and this
> is where the light really shined. When I was catching up with a lead
> group, one of them commented that he thought I was a car coming from
> behind [3]. The light outperformed every battery headlight I have used
> previously (including a dual 6w / 12w halogen system). It was
> definitely not better than some of the 20-25W HID systems I've seen, but
> I was certainly carrying the brightest light of anyone there.
>
> Ease of use: It has a sealed button on the side. Press once to turn
> on, once more to change to blinking, once more to turn off. Dead
> simple.
>
> Quality of construction: It's a box. A nice sealed, gasketed, sturdy
> box. I have a feeling it will last quite a while, though it will win no
> awards for style. It has a locking style connector leading to the
> dynamo, very nice.
>
> Mounting: Available with a standard fork crown mounting or set up for a
> handlebar bracket.
>
> Drag: When it's in blink mode, the drag is unnoticeable. This makes it
> particularly attractive for cloudy days and see-me urban riding. The
> drag is barely perceptible when on, though I have no doubt it's there.
> Theoretically at max speed, I'm losing approximately 12 watts [4]. It's
> probably a touch more. On the other hand, I weigh 200 pounds, and I'm
> only losing those watts when I'm already near top speed. Smaller riders
> might not be so sanguine about that.
>
> Some impressions: This is definitely the product of a small engineering
> company. The serial number on my light is 000214, so they're not many
> out there. On the other hand, the dynamo lights are evidently an
> outgrowth of their battery lights IIRC, so it is a tested design.
>
> Conclusion: I love the light, and really look forward to using it for
> my winter commute. It was expensive, but I'm very satisfied with it so
> far. I'll see if I can't write a followup review once the darkness has
> fallen over our fair city.
>
> TLDR [2]: Light is awesome, but expensive. It is the ne plus ultra of
> dynamo headlights. I would absolutely buy it again.
>
> [1] A side or bottom exit for the cable would have alleviated this
> problem.
> [2] Too Long Didn't Read
> [3] This was on a closed bike trail, so I think I scared him.
> [4] Shimano DH-3N71 - reputedly about 50% efficient
>
> --
> Dane Buson - sigd...@unixbigots.org
> The party adjourned to a hot tub, yes. Fully clothed, I might add.
> -- IBM employee, testifying in California State Supreme Court


sounds like a winner, and thanks for posting this.

it's kinda cool that they're simplifying things by making both schmidt
and shimano versions, but i see there's no shimano version with a rear
light output. could you just use the schmidt one for which there is a
rear output and use a shimano connector?
any idea how this compares directly to the other blingbling high
output setups like dual e6s or dual inoled 20+'s?

how much variance could there really be in drag between the different
lights? (i really have no idea about these kinds of generator
questions; i mostly just use the stuff.)

[Zog The Undeniable]

Dane Buson wrote:
> Review for: Solidlights 1203d
> Found at: http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php
> Cost: 155 GBP

> TLDR [2]: Light is awesome, but expensive. It is the ne plus ultra of
> dynamo headlights. I would absolutely buy it again.

What does the gasket look like? I hear too many tales of light failure,
perishing gaskets and water ingress even on fairly new units to swap my
E6 for one at the moment.

[pureheart@pacbell.net]

On Sep 7, 12:55 pm, Dane Buson <d...@unseen.edu> wrote:
> Review for: Solidlights 1203d
> Found at:http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php
> Cost: 155 GBP
>
> Note: TLDR summary at the bottom of article.
>
> For the last two years, I've been using a Lumotec Oval Plus and have
> been quite happy with it. Still, I can admit to a small amount of envy
> for my batteried brethren who spray the darkness indiscriminately with
> decawatts of light. On the other hand, no amount of shininess could
> compel me to use one again considering I often go on night time rides
> that last longer than five hours.
>
> While lurking in the uk.rec.cycling newsgroup I heard discussion of a
> company Solidlights that made LED dynamo headlights with dual LEDs.
> Dual 3 watt LEDs. Evidently the Audaxers and commuters who had stumped
> up the cash for it were delighted with it.
>
> A dynamo light with two 3 watt LEDs that ramped up as your speed did? A
> flashing and a solid mode? A five minute standlight using the same
> LEDs (thus making adjusting the beam angle much easier).
>
> With one thing and another, I finally decided to jump in and buy it July
> 1st. A short week later it had been shipped across the pond to sunny
> Seattle and was sitting in my grubby hands.
>
> I first attempted to mount it on the fork. Previously with the Lumotec
> mounting there wasn't a problem, even with cantilever brakes.
> Unfortunately with the lower boxier shape of the 1203d, the front brake
> cable was rubbing the power cable and would have sawed through in time.
> [1] A *loooong* fork mount bracket and a spacer later I was happier with
> it.
>
> I went on a ride with some friends that night that lasted until after
> midnight. I was quite happy with the light, though the limited
> stretches of darkness (it was mostly urban riding except for a short
> stretch) forbade a really good test. One thing to note is that at low
> speeds (6-8 mph) it cast a *much* larger degree of light than my old
> lights.
>
> Oh, that mounting bracket? It broke the very next day. Damn potmetal.
> Currently the light is attached to a handlebar mounting bracket, and I
> haven't had any problems with it.
>
> I went on a longer ride with more stretches of real darkness, and this
> is where the light really shined. When I was catching up with a lead
> group, one of them commented that he thought I was a car coming from
> behind [3]. The light outperformed every battery headlight I have used
> previously (including a dual 6w / 12w halogen system). It was
> definitely not better than some of the 20-25W HID systems I've seen, but
> I was certainly carrying the brightest light of anyone there.
>
> Ease of use: It has a sealed button on the side. Press once to turn
> on, once more to change to blinking, once more to turn off. Dead
> simple.
>
> Quality of construction: It's a box. A nice sealed, gasketed, sturdy
> box. I have a feeling it will last quite a while, though it will win no
> awards for style. It has a locking style connector leading to the
> dynamo, very nice.
>
> Mounting: Available with a standard fork crown mounting or set up for a
> handlebar bracket.
>
> Drag: When it's in blink mode, the drag is unnoticeable. This makes it
> particularly attractive for cloudy days and see-me urban riding. The
> drag is barely perceptible when on, though I have no doubt it's there.
> Theoretically at max speed, I'm losing approximately 12 watts [4]. It's
> probably a touch more. On the other hand, I weigh 200 pounds, and I'm
> only losing those watts when I'm already near top speed. Smaller riders
> might not be so sanguine about that.
>
> Some impressions: This is definitely the product of a small engineering
> company. The serial number on my light is 000214, so they're not many
> out there. On the other hand, the dynamo lights are evidently an
> outgrowth of their battery lights IIRC, so it is a tested design.
>
> Conclusion: I love the light, and really look forward to using it for
> my winter commute. It was expensive, but I'm very satisfied with it so
> far. I'll see if I can't write a followup review once the darkness has
> fallen over our fair city.
>
> TLDR [2]: Light is awesome, but expensive. It is the ne plus ultra of
> dynamo headlights. I would absolutely buy it again.
>
> [1] A side or bottom exit for the cable would have alleviated this
> problem.
> [2] Too Long Didn't Read
> [3] This was on a closed bike trail, so I think I scared him.
> [4] Shimano DH-3N71 - reputedly about 50% efficient
>
> --
> Dane Buson - sigd...@unixbigots.org
> The party adjourned to a hot tub, yes. Fully clothed, I might add.
> -- IBM employee, testifying in California State Supreme Court


Thank you very much for this review. I am planning to buy another
light to supplement my
1W LED in the next year...I've been looking at the DeNotte (sp?) line,
but like dynamos besides. (Dynamos, AA and D batteries are what I've
standardized on in my life and bicycling life, so the DeNotte use of
AA's is like a siren call to me.)

Pureheart
Aptos, CA

[pureheart@pacbell.net]

Dane Buson wrote:
> Review for: Solidlights 1203d
> Found at: http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php
> Cost: 155 GBP
>
<snip>

> A dynamo light with two 3 watt LEDs that ramped up as your speed did? A
> flashing and a solid mode? A five minute standlight using the same
> LEDs (thus making adjusting the beam angle much easier).
>
<snip>
> --
> Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
> The party adjourned to a hot tub, yes. Fully clothed, I might add.
> -- IBM employee, testifying in California State Supreme Court

Apropos dynamos, do you have an opinion regarding the SON dynamo re:
the quality of the bearings? If I were to convert to one it would
mean giving up my beloved Phil Wood Hub which as served me well for
many years (at least during my 'lighting season'). Do they come in 40
and 48H versions and do you find the quality adequate?
(following up my own previous post)

Pureheart

[Zoot Katz]

On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 12:55:16 -0700, Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu>
wrote:

>A dynamo light with two 3 watt LEDs that ramped up as your speed did? A
>flashing and a solid mode? A five minute standlight using the same
>LEDs (thus making adjusting the beam angle much easier).

Thanks for the review. It sounds like the best light around for those
of us who prefer to grind our own lumens.

The website pics are impressive.

Ugly or not, it sure beats a desk lamp or flashlight.
--
zk

[Dane Buson]

In rec.bicycles.misc Nate Knutson <bikenate@riseup.net> wrote:
>
> sounds like a winner, and thanks for posting this.
>
> it's kinda cool that they're simplifying things by making both schmidt
> and shimano versions, but i see there's no shimano version with a rear
> light output. could you just use the schmidt one for which there is a
> rear output and use a shimano connector?

I haven't the foggiest idea for that one. I've gone with just using
blinkies for my rear, as I've never liked the idea of stringing another
wire the length of my frame.

> any idea how this compares directly to the other blingbling high
> output setups like dual e6s or dual inoled 20+'s?

Not reallly, other than looking at the specs. The Inoled 20+ has one 2
watt LED, versus the dual 3 watt LEDs in the 1203d. Just looking at the
beam patterns on Peter White's site, I'd say the 1203d beam is a touch
wider since it stacks the LEDs side by side.

> how much variance could there really be in drag between the different
> lights? (i really have no idea about these kinds of generator
> questions; i mostly just use the stuff.)

I'd say the 1203d probably has three times as much drag as the Inoled
20+. It's pretty linear as you ramp up.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
A novice was trying to fix a broken lisp machine by turning the
power off and on. Knight, seeing what the student was doing spoke sternly,
"You cannot fix a machine by just power-cycling it with no understanding
of what is going wrong." Knight turned the machine off and on. The
machine worked.

[dkahn400]

On Sep 8, 7:28 am, Zog The Undeniable <hrothga...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
> > Review for: Solidlights 1203d
> > Found at:http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php
> > Cost: 155 GBP
> > TLDR [2]: Light is awesome, but expensive. It is the ne plus ultra of
> > dynamo headlights. I would absolutely buy it again.
>
> What does the gasket look like? I hear too many tales of light failure,
> perishing gaskets and water ingress even on fairly new units to swap my
> E6 for one at the moment.

I used a fairly new one on PBP. It was ideal for that but the O rings
were slightly perished, though the unit was new, and the unit got
quite moist inside. It continued to work well throughout PBP and the
ride home to Twickenham but failed a few days later while JRA.

The company's service was superb and they had the unit repaired and
back to me within 5 days, including a weekend. The included worksheet
mentioned the water ingress and the perished O rings, now renewed of
course, but also referred to an unspecied "unusual component failure".
In spite of my disappointment at the early failure I still have
confidence in the unit though not quite as much as previously, but the
lesson is always to have a backup of some kind and not rely on a
single lighting source no matter how good. So if using a Solidlight
with a dynamo the backup should really be a battery unit of some kind
as either the light or the dynamo could fail.

--
Dave...

[Dane Buson]

In rec.bicycles.misc Zog The Undeniable <hrothgar19@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
>> Review for: Solidlights 1203d
>> Found at: http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php
>> Cost: 155 GBP
>
>> TLDR [2]: Light is awesome, but expensive. It is the ne plus ultra of
>> dynamo headlights. I would absolutely buy it again.
>
> What does the gasket look like? I hear too many tales of light failure,
> perishing gaskets and water ingress even on fairly new units to swap my
> E6 for one at the moment.

I'll see if I can't take a picture later. It's a gasket around the side
plate, and a gasket for each screw. I'm pretty much eminently
unqualified to judge it's efficacy, but it does look better sealed than
some other lights I've had that have succumbed to Seattle rains.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"France is the only country where the money falls apart and you
can't tear the toilet paper." -Billy Wilder

[Crescentius Vespasianus]

> Thank you very much for this review. I am planning to buy another
> light to supplement my
> 1W LED in the next year...I've been looking at the DeNotte (sp?) line,
> but like dynamos besides. (Dynamos, AA and D batteries are what I've
> standardized on in my life and bicycling life, so the DeNotte use of
> AA's is like a siren call to me.)
>
> Pureheart
> Aptos, CA
---------------
I have a Dinotte, and the AA
rechargeble's are the way to go. I
tried Lithium AA's and they went dark
way to quick. Sometimes the bumping
will knock an AA loose, and you lose the
light, but I solved it easily by putting
a rubber band around the holder and the
bats, so they can't shake loose. The
only thing about the DiNotte light, is
that it is a flood, and the spot doesn't
go out very far. So you still need a
spot way out front. I'm planning on
getting a fenix L2d-ce flashlight, with
a twofish cyclopblock to hold it, to put
a spot way out there. Presently I use a
cateye el-500 to get a spot, but that
light is barely adequate in my opinion.

[Dane Buson]

In rec.bicycles.misc pureheart@pacbell.net wrote:
>
> Dane Buson wrote:
>> Review for: Solidlights 1203d
>> Found at: http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php
>> Cost: 155 GBP
>>
> <snip>
>
>> A dynamo light with two 3 watt LEDs that ramped up as your speed did? A
>> flashing and a solid mode? A five minute standlight using the same
>> LEDs (thus making adjusting the beam angle much easier).
>
> Apropos dynamos, do you have an opinion regarding the SON dynamo re:
> the quality of the bearings?

Are you interested in the service life, or the drag when when it's
on/off? Because the bearings don't have much to do with dynamo drag,
that has more to do with the hub's design.

I belive the SON hubs have sealed cartridge bearings.

> If I were to convert to one it would mean giving up my beloved Phil Wood Hub
> which as served me well for many years (at least during my 'lighting
> season'). Do they come in 40 and 48H versions and do you find the quality
> adequate? (following up my own previous post)

I believe the SON does come in 40 and 48 hole versions, though I
wouldn't know where to get them. I went with the Shimano as the frugal
and 'good enough' option. The Shimano only comes in 32H and 36H.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"You are welcome to visit the cemetery where famous
Russian and Soviet composers, artists, and writers
are buried daily except Thursday."
-In the Lobby of a Moscow Hotel Across from a Russian Orthodox Monastary

[Zog The Undeniable]

pureheart@pacbell.net wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
>> Review for: Solidlights 1203d
>> Found at: http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php
>> Cost: 155 GBP
>>
> <snip>
>
>> A dynamo light with two 3 watt LEDs that ramped up as your speed did? A
>> flashing and a solid mode? A five minute standlight using the same
>> LEDs (thus making adjusting the beam angle much easier).
>>
> <snip>
>> --
>> Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
>> The party adjourned to a hot tub, yes. Fully clothed, I might add.
>> -- IBM employee, testifying in California State Supreme Court
>
> Apropos dynamos, do you have an opinion regarding the SON dynamo re:
> the quality of the bearings? If I were to convert to one it would
> mean giving up my beloved Phil Wood Hub which as served me well for
> many years (at least during my 'lighting season'). Do they come in 40
> and 48H versions and do you find the quality adequate?
> (following up my own previous post)
>
> Pureheart
>
SON failures are incredibly rare. The bearings should be good for
30,000 miles or so, then you can either send the whole wheel to Schmidt
(or, in the US, Peter White) for service, or just buy a new one. It
probably doesn't owe you anything by then.

A word of advice - if you ride where they use salt on the roads in
winter, get the black powdercoated one. The polished one gets a bit
mottled in those conditions.

[David Damerell]

Quoting <pureheart@pacbell.net>:
>many years (at least during my 'lighting season'). Do they come in 40
>and 48H versions and do you find the quality adequate?

The SON does come in 40/48 hole versions, but unless you're looking to use
only one rim drilling, 36 should be enough for a front. I've put a lot of
miles on a 36h SON wheel (albeit on a Sun Rhyno) on the tandem, and it's
fine.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Today is Stilday, August - a weekend.

[Tim McNamara]

I saw several photos of bikes on PBP that had these weird looking square
boxed headlamps with two lenses. This is what those are. Too bad that
the Web site doesn't include the beam pattern for this particular unit.
It looks quite interesting.

[Dane Buson]

In rec.bicycles.misc Zoot Katz <zootkatz@operamail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 12:55:16 -0700, Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu>
> wrote:
>
>>A dynamo light with two 3 watt LEDs that ramped up as your speed did? A
>>flashing and a solid mode? A five minute standlight using the same
>>LEDs (thus making adjusting the beam angle much easier).
>
> Thanks for the review. It sounds like the best light around for those
> of us who prefer to grind our own lumens.

It is really nice. The only thing I'm concerned about is the
weatherproofing. I've toasted too many (battery) lights from moisture
to be less than leary. [1]
>
> The website pics are impressive.
>
> Ugly or not, it sure beats a desk lamp or flashlight.

True, true.

[1] Planet bike, I'm looking at you!

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
E = MC ** 2 +- 3db

[dkahn400]

On Sep 9, 3:06 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> I saw several photos of bikes on PBP that had these weird looking square
> boxed headlamps with two lenses. This is what those are. Too bad that
> the Web site doesn't include the beam pattern for this particular unit.
> It looks quite interesting.

The unit gives a general wash of light with a very bright central
area. Best results seem to be obtained by angling the unit down far
more than you would with most lights so the bright spot is 4 - 5 yards
in front of the bike. The road beyond the bright spot will still be
lit well enough to travel confidently at 30 mph, both verges will be
plainly visible, and distant signposts will light up. With the unit
angled down like this oncoming vehicles will not be dazzled but you
will still get comments from people about how bright the lights seem.

Because of the lack of a defined beam pattern the unit is much more
impressive on very dark roads than well lit ones. Under good street
lighting, and in a car headlight beam, the effect of illuminating the
road almost disappears although of course you are still highly visible
to oncoming traffic. In good street lighting I think it makes sense to
switch to flashing mode, reverting to steady mode when ambient light
is low.

--
Dave...

[SMS]

Crescentius Vespasianus wrote:
>
>> Thank you very much for this review. I am planning to buy another
>> light to supplement my
>> 1W LED in the next year...I've been looking at the DeNotte (sp?) line,
>> but like dynamos besides. (Dynamos, AA and D batteries are what I've
>> standardized on in my life and bicycling life, so the DeNotte use of
>> AA's is like a siren call to me.)
>>
>> Pureheart
>> Aptos, CA
> ---------------
> I have a Dinotte, and the AA rechargeble's are the way to go. I tried
> Lithium AA's and they went dark way to quick. Sometimes the bumping
> will knock an AA loose, and you lose the light, but I solved it easily
> by putting a rubber band around the holder and the bats, so they can't
> shake loose. The only thing about the DiNotte light, is that it is a
> flood, and the spot doesn't go out very far. So you still need a spot
> way out front. I'm planning on getting a fenix L2d-ce flashlight, with
> a twofish cyclopblock to hold it, to put a spot way out there.
> Presently I use a cateye el-500 to get a spot, but that light is barely
> adequate in my opinion.

Does the Fenix have an adjustable spot to flood lens like the Maglite?

[Luke]

On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 04:12:06 -0700, Crescentius Vespasianus
<jazzyboss@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>> Thank you very much for this review. I am planning to buy another
>> light to supplement my
>> 1W LED in the next year...I've been looking at the DeNotte (sp?) line,
>> but like dynamos besides. (Dynamos, AA and D batteries are what I've
>> standardized on in my life and bicycling life, so the DeNotte use of
>> AA's is like a siren call to me.)
>>
>> Pureheart
>> Aptos, CA
>---------------
>I have a Dinotte, and the AA
>rechargeble's are the way to go. I
>tried Lithium AA's and they went dark
>way to quick. Sometimes the bumping
>will knock an AA loose, and you lose the
>light, but I solved it easily by putting
>a rubber band around the holder and the
>bats, so they can't shake loose. The
>only thing about the DiNotte light, is
>that it is a flood, and the spot doesn't
>go out very far. So you still need a
>spot way out front. I'm planning on
>getting a fenix L2d-ce flashlight, with
>a twofish cyclopblock to hold it, to put
>a spot way out there. Presently I use a
>cateye el-500 to get a spot, but that
>light is barely adequate in my opinion.


Count me among those pleased with the Dinotte (Ultra 5).

A rubber band round the battery pack and connector is a workaround I
resort to as well. The only other modification to my Dinotte package
was replacing the less than waterproof battery case holder with a
neoprene (Topeak) multitool case that had been bouncing about my spare
parts bin. Although it also is not completely waterproof it affords
better protection during downpours than the stock item.

And the convenience of the AA batteries is a bonus. With NiMH AAs of
over 2500 milli-amp hours readily available the Dinotte Ultra 5 will
easily last 2+ hours on 'high' mode before automatically kicking into
energy saver mode.

[SMS]

Crescentius Vespasianus wrote:

> I have a Dinotte, and the AA rechargeble's are the way to go. I tried
> Lithium AA's and they went dark way to quick. Sometimes the bumping
> will knock an AA loose, and you lose the light, but I solved it easily
> by putting a rubber band around the holder and the bats, so they can't
> shake loose. The only thing about the DiNotte light, is that it is a
> flood, and the spot doesn't go out very far. So you still need a spot
> way out front. I'm planning on getting a fenix L2d-ce flashlight, with
> a twofish cyclopblock to hold it, to put a spot way out there.
> Presently I use a cateye el-500 to get a spot, but that light is barely
> adequate in my opinion.

It's great that Fenix is also selling the Twofish Cycloblock, for some
reason these have become very hard to find. No bike shops seem to carry
them anymore.

Also take a look at
"http://www.eliteled.com/products/accessory/flholder.html". This company
sells the Fenix flashlights, and their flashlight holder looks a little
better than the TwoFish method because it swivels.

[Dane Buson]

In rec.bicycles.misc dkahn400 <dkahn400@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 8, 7:28 am, Zog The Undeniable <hrothga...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Dane Buson wrote:
>> > Review for: Solidlights 1203d
>> > Found at:http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php
>> > Cost: 155 GBP
>> > TLDR [2]: Light is awesome, but expensive. It is the ne plus ultra of
>> > dynamo headlights. I would absolutely buy it again.
>>
>> What does the gasket look like? I hear too many tales of light failure,
>> perishing gaskets and water ingress even on fairly new units to swap my
>> E6 for one at the moment.
>
> I used a fairly new one on PBP. It was ideal for that but the O rings
> were slightly perished, though the unit was new, and the unit got
> quite moist inside. It continued to work well throughout PBP and the
> ride home to Twickenham but failed a few days later while JRA.
>
> The company's service was superb and they had the unit repaired and
> back to me within 5 days, including a weekend. The included worksheet
> mentioned the water ingress and the perished O rings, now renewed of
> course, but also referred to an unspecied "unusual component failure".
> In spite of my disappointment at the early failure I still have
> confidence in the unit though not quite as much as previously, but the
> lesson is always to have a backup of some kind and not rely on a
> single lighting source no matter how good. So if using a Solidlight
> with a dynamo the backup should really be a battery unit of some kind
> as either the light or the dynamo could fail.

Sounds like I should start carrying my extra light on my fork mount this
winter. I'm dreading the idea of shipping it back and forth across the
ocean.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"Contrary to popular belief, penguins are not the salvation of modern
technology. Neither do they throw parties for the urban proletariat."

[Tim McNamara]

In article <1189342502.910750.194750@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.c om>,
dkahn400 <dkahn400@googlemail.com> wrote:

> On Sep 9, 3:06 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > I saw several photos of bikes on PBP that had these weird looking
> > square boxed headlamps with two lenses. This is what those are.
> > Too bad that the Web site doesn't include the beam pattern for this
> > particular unit. It looks quite interesting.
>
> The unit gives a general wash of light with a very bright central
> area. Best results seem to be obtained by angling the unit down far
> more than you would with most lights so the bright spot is 4 - 5
> yards in front of the bike. The road beyond the bright spot will
> still be lit well enough to travel confidently at 30 mph, both verges
> will be plainly visible, and distant signposts will light up. With
> the unit angled down like this oncoming vehicles will not be dazzled
> but you will still get comments from people about how bright the
> lights seem.

Is this mounted at the handlebar or lower? I mount my lights about
level with the top of the tire.

> Because of the lack of a defined beam pattern the unit is much more
> impressive on very dark roads than well lit ones. Under good street
> lighting, and in a car headlight beam, the effect of illuminating the
> road almost disappears although of course you are still highly
> visible to oncoming traffic. In good street lighting I think it makes
> sense to switch to flashing mode, reverting to steady mode when
> ambient light is low.

Thanks for the further information.

[Andy M-S]

On Sep 9, 7:55 am, dkahn400 <dkahn...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> The unit gives a general wash of light with a very bright central
> area. Best results seem to be obtained by angling the unit down far
> more than you would with most lights so the bright spot is 4 - 5 yards
> in front of the bike. The road beyond the bright spot will still be
> lit well enough to travel confidently at 30 mph, both verges will be
> plainly visible, and distant signposts will light up. With the unit
> angled down like this oncoming vehicles will not be dazzled but you
> will still get comments from people about how bright the lights seem.
>
> Because of the lack of a defined beam pattern the unit is much more
> impressive on very dark roads than well lit ones. Under good street
> lighting, and in a car headlight beam, the effect of illuminating the
> road almost disappears although of course you are still highly visible
> to oncoming traffic. In good street lighting I think it makes sense to
> switch to flashing mode, reverting to steady mode when ambient light
> is low.

I suspect that the 'wash of light' effect is likely due to the use of
lenses rather than reflectors. My dual LED headlight (homemade with 2
Luxeon K2s, one 15-degree and one wide-angle lens, running off a
Shimano dynohub) has the same wash effect. It works very well...but
an inexpensive 1W LED I recently put on my son's bike has a nice sharp
beam--it's using a reflector.

OTOH, I really liked the wash effect the other night when I had to
ride home through near-total darkness!

[Crescentius Vespasianus]

> Does the Fenix have an adjustable spot to flood lens like the Maglite?

Don't even mention a maglite in
comparison to a fenix. That's like
comparing a candle to the landing lights
of a 747.
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/fenix_l1dce-l2dce.htm

[dkahn400]

On Sep 10, 12:48 am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> dkahn400 <dkahn...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > The unit gives a general wash of light with a very bright central
> > area. Best results seem to be obtained by angling the unit down far
> > more than you would with most lights so the bright spot is 4 - 5
> > yards in front of the bike. The road beyond the bright spot will
> > still be lit well enough to travel confidently at 30 mph, both verges
> > will be plainly visible, and distant signposts will light up. With
> > the unit angled down like this oncoming vehicles will not be dazzled
> > but you will still get comments from people about how bright the
> > lights seem.
>
> Is this mounted at the handlebar or lower? I mount my lights about
> level with the top of the tire.

Mounted on the fork crown in my case.

--
Dave...

[pureheart@pacbell.net]

On Sep 10, 9:26 am, Dane Buson <d...@unseen.edu> wrote:
> In rec.bicycles.misc purehe...@pacbell.net wrote:
>
> > Dane Buson wrote:
> >> Review for: Solidlights 1203d
> >> Found at:http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php
> >> Cost: 155 GBP
>
> > <snip>
>
> >> A dynamo light with two 3 watt LEDs that ramped up as your speed did? A
> >> flashing and a solid mode? A five minute standlight using the same
> >> LEDs (thus making adjusting the beam angle much easier).
>
> > Apropos dynamos, do you have an opinion regarding the SON dynamo re:
> > the quality of the bearings?
>
> Are you interested in the service life, or the drag when when it's
> on/off? Because the bearings don't have much to do with dynamo drag,
> that has more to do with the hub's design.

Service life. I've got so much junk I carry to/from work that drag is
the least of my worries.

> I belive the SON hubs have sealed cartridge bearings.
>
> > If I were to convert to one it would mean giving up my beloved Phil Wood Hub
> > which as served me well for many years (at least during my 'lighting
> > season'). Do they come in 40 and 48H versions and do you find the quality
> > adequate? (following up my own previous post)
>
> I believe the SON does come in 40 and 48 hole versions, though I
> wouldn't know where to get them. I went with the Shimano as the frugal
> and 'good enough' option. The Shimano only comes in 32H and 36H.
>
I since saw on Peter White's site that it is available in 40H and 48H,
at an extra cost. (Gee, what is this, like women's clothing where you
pay more for less? You'd think that they'd be *cheaper* since there's
less metal! <insert smiley here>)

> --
> Dane Buson - sigd...@unixbigots.org
> "You are welcome to visit the cemetery where famous
> Russian and Soviet composers, artists, and writers
> are buried daily except Thursday."
> -In the Lobby of a Moscow Hotel Across from a Russian Orthodox Monastary

pH

[Zoot Katz]

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 09:27:47 -0700, Dane Buson <dane@unseen.edu>
wrote:

>> Thanks for the review. It sounds like the best light around for those
>> of us who prefer to grind our own lumens.
>
>It is really nice. The only thing I'm concerned about is the
>weatherproofing. I've toasted too many (battery) lights from moisture
>to be less than leary. [1]

Silicone caulk holds together the parts of the globe not already
secured by duct tape.

It might cause warranty issues but it won't leak.
\
>[1] Planet bike, I'm looking at you!

I usually end up sealing the joint of their red 7 LED blinkies with
clear surgical tape.* It keeps the unit from coming apart and blocks
the ingress of water. Their Beamer 3 and Dual Spot headlights never
had problems.

*After losing the last PB 7 LED rear lamp, for half its price, I
replaced it with a 5 LED MEC brand light that uses the cheaper AA
batteries instead of AAA. It also neatly bolts directly to the
reflector bracket of the rack. I've not yet had to tape it.
--
zk

[frkrygow@gmail.com]

On Sep 10, 12:42 pm, purehe...@pacbell.net wrote:
> On Sep 10, 9:26 am, Dane Buson <d...@unseen.edu> wrote:
>
>
> > I believe the SON does come in 40 and 48 hole versions, though I
> > wouldn't know where to get them. I went with the Shimano as the frugal
> > and 'good enough' option. The Shimano only comes in 32H and 36H.
>
> I since saw on Peter White's site that it is available in 40H and 48H,
> at an extra cost. (Gee, what is this, like women's clothing where you
> pay more for less? You'd think that they'd be *cheaper* since there's
> less metal! <insert smiley here>)

You're forgetting that the versions with more holes are lighter! And
lighter bike components _always_ cost more! It's a law, isn't
it? ;-)

- Frank Krygowski

[M-gineering]

pureheart@pacbell.net wrote:

>>
> I since saw on Peter White's site that it is available in 40H and 48H,
> at an extra cost. (Gee, what is this, like women's clothing where you
> pay more for less? You'd think that they'd be *cheaper* since there's
> less metal! <insert smiley here>)

The surcharge just about covers the cost for sweeping up the extra
aluminium chips and carting them over to the metal recycling facility ;)
--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

[Crescentius Vespasianus]

>
> Count me among those pleased with the Dinotte (Ultra 5).
>
> A rubber band round the battery pack and connector is a workaround I
> resort to as well. The only other modification to my Dinotte package
> was replacing the less than waterproof battery case holder with a
> neoprene (Topeak) multitool case that had been bouncing about my spare
> parts bin. Although it also is not completely waterproof it affords
> better protection during downpours than the stock item.
>
> And the convenience of the AA batteries is a bonus. With NiMH AAs of
> over 2500 milli-amp hours readily available the Dinotte Ultra 5 will
> easily last 2+ hours on 'high' mode before automatically kicking into
> energy saver mode.
---------------
I've never had mine in the rain. Is the
light waterproof? For the bat pack, a
less elegant solution is simply to
double rap the pack with a plastic bag
and rubber bands. But I always wondered
about the light, it's waterproofness. I
have done some all night rides, so a
recharging is out of the question, so
the AA setup of the DiNotte works
perfect for me. If it goes dim, just
either put some more Nimh bats in, or
carry some alkaline's with you.

[Tim McNamara]

In article <13eeh561k351o24@corp.supernews.com>,
Crescentius Vespasianus <jazzyboss@hotmail.com> wrote:

> >
> > Count me among those pleased with the Dinotte (Ultra 5).
> >
> > A rubber band round the battery pack and connector is a workaround
> > I resort to as well. The only other modification to my Dinotte
> > package was replacing the less than waterproof battery case holder
> > with a neoprene (Topeak) multitool case that had been bouncing
> > about my spare parts bin. Although it also is not completely
> > waterproof it affords better protection during downpours than the
> > stock item.
> >
> > And the convenience of the AA batteries is a bonus. With NiMH AAs
> > of over 2500 milli-amp hours readily available the Dinotte Ultra 5
> > will easily last 2+ hours on 'high' mode before automatically
> > kicking into energy saver mode.
>
> ---------------
>
> I've never had mine in the rain. Is the light waterproof? For the
> bat pack, a less elegant solution is simply to double rap the pack
> with a plastic bag and rubber bands. But I always wondered about the
> light, it's waterproofness. I have done some all night rides, so a
> recharging is out of the question, so the AA setup of the DiNotte
> works perfect for me. If it goes dim, just either put some more Nimh
> bats in, or carry some alkaline's with you.

Good grief, what a blessed nuisance to have to carry four sets of
batteries and swap them out every two hours. Why not just use a
generator system?

[SMS]

Crescentius Vespasianus wrote:
>
>> Does the Fenix have an adjustable spot to flood lens like the Maglite?
>
> Don't even mention a maglite in comparison to a fenix. That's like
> comparing a candle to the landing lights of a 747.
> http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/fenix_l1dce-l2dce.htm

Argh, sorry.

It does look good. I may get one to replace my defective Streamlight
Strion. The Fenix isn't as bright, but it's more convenient. One of the
e-tailers of the Fenix is just a mile from my house, maybe he'll sell me
one without shipping.

[SMS]

Crescentius Vespasianus wrote:
>
>> Does the Fenix have an adjustable spot to flood lens like the Maglite?
>
> Don't even mention a maglite in comparison to a fenix. That's like
> comparing a candle to the landing lights of a 747.
> http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/fenix_l1dce-l2dce.htm

I went and picked up the L2DCE earlier tonight. It is an incredible
light. You're absolutely right about the comparison with a Mag-Lite LED
version being almost sac religious.

The pictures of it do not really give a good perspective of how small it
is. The guy from eLite was asking me if I was sure I wanted the bicycle
holders he sells
("http://www.eliteled.com/products/accessory/flholder.html") because the
Fenix diameter isn't wide enough for it to hold it. I bought it anyway,
as I can use a rubber spacer around the body of the flashlight. He was a
good guy, meeting me locally rather than insisting on shipping it the
mile from where he is located to my house.

The beam is very good for bicycling, with a strong spot beam but with
sufficient flood to illuminate to the sides.

I had been using a Streamlight Strion, and while slightly brighter in
spot mode than the Fenix (even though rated at only 116 lumens) it was
not as convenient as it used a proprietary Li-Ion battery, and the bulb
did not last all that long, only a few hundred hours.

I certainly can't see the advantage of the DiNotte over the Fenix L2D CE
which is rated at 135 Lumens at highest power (the L2D CE at mid power
is rated at 80 lumens). The DiNotte with the Luxeon 5W bulb is rated at
120 lumens. I know that DiNotte is using Cree LEDs in some new products,
but it apparently hasn't made it to their existing products.

I especially like the different available power levels and modes, as it
isn't necessary to use it at full power all the time.

The reviews I've read of the SolidLights indicate that they have optics
very much similar to what two Fenix lights would look like, a
symmetrical beam that doesn't have the issues that most lights designed
for dynamos have by necessity.

[SMS]

Crescentius Vespasianus wrote:
>
>> Does the Fenix have an adjustable spot to flood lens like the Maglite?
>
> Don't even mention a maglite in comparison to a fenix. That's like
> comparing a candle to the landing lights of a 747.
> http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/fenix_l1dce-l2dce.htm

(Not sure if this got posted before, I didn't see it on my newsreader)

I went and picked up the L2DCE earlier tonight. It is an incredible
light. You're absolutely right about the comparison with a Mag-Lite LED
version being almost sac religious.

The pictures of it do not really give a good perspective of how small it
is. The guy from eLite was asking me if I was sure I wanted the bicycle
holders he sells
("http://www.eliteled.com/products/accessory/flholder.html") because the
Fenix diameter isn't wide enough for it to hold it. I bought it anyway,
as I can use a rubber spacer around the body of the flashlight. He was a
good guy, meeting me locally rather than insisting on shipping it the
mile from where he is located to my house.

The beam is very good for bicycling, with a strong spot beam but with
sufficient flood to illuminate to the sides.

I had been using a Streamlight Strion, and while slightly brighter in
spot mode than the Fenix (even though rated at only 116 lumens) it was
not as convenient as it used a proprietary Li-Ion battery, and the bulb
did not last all that long, only a few hundred hours.

I certainly can't see the advantage of the DiNotte over the Fenix L2D CE
which is rated at 135 Lumens at highest power (the L2D CE at mid power
is rated at 80 lumens). The DiNotte with the Luxeon 5W bulb is rated at
120 lumens. I know that DiNotte is using Cree LEDs in some new products,
but it apparently hasn't made it to their existing products.

I especially like the different available power levels and modes, as it
isn't necessary to use it at full power all the time.

The reviews I've read of the SolidLights indicate that they have optics
very much similar to what two Fenix lights would look like, a
symmetrical beam that doesn't have the issues that most lights designed
for dynamos have by necessity.

[Luke]

In article <timmcn-149CE9.23122611092007@news.iphouse.com>, Tim
McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:

> In article <13eeh561k351o24@corp.supernews.com>,
> Crescentius Vespasianus <jazzyboss@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Count me among those pleased with the Dinotte (Ultra 5).
> > >
> > > A rubber band round the battery pack and connector is a workaround
> > > I resort to as well. The only other modification to my Dinotte
> > > package was replacing the less than waterproof battery case holder
> > > with a neoprene (Topeak) multitool case that had been bouncing
> > > about my spare parts bin. Although it also is not completely
> > > waterproof it affords better protection during downpours than the
> > > stock item.
> > >
> > > And the convenience of the AA batteries is a bonus. With NiMH AAs
> > > of over 2500 milli-amp hours readily available the Dinotte Ultra 5
> > > will easily last 2+ hours on 'high' mode before automatically
> > > kicking into energy saver mode.
> >
> > ---------------
> >
> > I've never had mine in the rain. Is the light waterproof? For the
> > bat pack, a less elegant solution is simply to double rap the pack
> > with a plastic bag and rubber bands. But I always wondered about the
> > light, it's waterproofness. I have done some all night rides, so a
> > recharging is out of the question, so the AA setup of the DiNotte
> > works perfect for me. If it goes dim, just either put some more Nimh
> > bats in, or carry some alkaline's with you.
>

I can't vouch that the Dinotte will survive complete submersion --
perhaps you can experiment in the kitchen sink and let us know ;-) But
it has performed perfectly in several *very heavy* deluges, and
numerous drizzly affairs.

> Good grief, what a blessed nuisance to have to carry four sets of
> batteries and swap them out every two hours. Why not just use a
> generator system?

My regular nocturnal ramblings -- well, at least those that require
illumination -- are yet to commonly exceed the discharge span of the
Dinottes.

Until a generator system offers comparable convenience and power --
5W/200 lumens -- at the Dinotte's price I'll gladly bear the occasional
extra burden of 4 AAs. I mean it's a payload smaller than a chocolate
bar, how much of a nuisance can it be?

Consider: a significant benefit of the Dinotte is that it can be
switched between my several bikes in less than 2 minutes - no
exaggeration; it's also relatively cheap, (on sale the Dinotte Ultra
5, complete with 4 NiMH AAs and charger, cost IIRC $120 @
westernbikeworks.com), lightweight, durable and waterproof (so far!).

Arguably the light is not for randonneuring or touring but I consider
it supreme for my needs.

[Dave Larrington]

In news:timmcn-149CE9.23122611092007@news.iphouse.com,
Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

> Good grief, what a blessed nuisance to have to carry four sets of
> batteries and swap them out every two hours. Why not just use a
> generator system?

Tch! You're just being silly, Tim. Surely /everybody/ knows that neither
LED lights nor dynamo systems are suitable for actually seeing where one is
going at night.
</thudding_irony>

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
uck Wa

[CoyoteBoy]

On 12 Sep, 05:12, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> In article <13eeh561k351...@corp.supernews.com>,
> Crescentius Vespasianus <jazzyb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > Count me among those pleased with the Dinotte (Ultra 5).
>
> > > A rubber band round the battery pack and connector is a workaround
> > > I resort to as well. The only other modification to my Dinotte
> > > package was replacing the less than waterproof battery case holder
> > > with a neoprene (Topeak) multitool case that had been bouncing
> > > about my spare parts bin. Although it also is not completely
> > > waterproof it affords better protection during downpours than the
> > > stock item.
>
> > > And the convenience of the AA batteries is a bonus. With NiMH AAs
> > > of over 2500 milli-amp hours readily available the Dinotte Ultra 5
> > > will easily last 2+ hours on 'high' mode before automatically
> > > kicking into energy saver mode.
>
> > ---------------
>
> > I've never had mine in the rain. Is the light waterproof? For the
> > bat pack, a less elegant solution is simply to double rap the pack
> > with a plastic bag and rubber bands. But I always wondered about the
> > light, it's waterproofness. I have done some all night rides, so a
> > recharging is out of the question, so the AA setup of the DiNotte
> > works perfect for me. If it goes dim, just either put some more Nimh
> > bats in, or carry some alkaline's with you.
>
> Good grief, what a blessed nuisance to have to carry four sets of
> batteries and swap them out every two hours. Why not just use a
> generator system?

I have no issues carrying extra batteries and swapping them. I'd like
a dynamo but they dont do 40w 12v ones for less than the price of my
lights and several sets of fairly lightweight batteries so it just
isnt sensible.

[Tim McNamara]

In article <120920070250342985%lucasiragusa@rogers.com>,
Luke <lucasiragusa@rogers.com> wrote:

> In article <timmcn-149CE9.23122611092007@news.iphouse.com>, Tim
> McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > Good grief, what a blessed nuisance to have to carry four sets of
> > batteries and swap them out every two hours. Why not just use a
> > generator system?
>
> My regular nocturnal ramblings -- well, at least those that require
> illumination -- are yet to commonly exceed the discharge span of the
> Dinottes.
>
> Until a generator system offers comparable convenience and power --
> 5W/200 lumens --

This has been debated at length in other threads and doesn't need to be
repeated here. Basically, enough light is enough light and more is not
necessarily better. Most battery powered lights have suboptimal optics
for cycling, since the lamps they use are not designed for that
application (I can't speak for the DiNottes since I haven't seen one in
person); this isn't the case with decent generator lights such as the
B&M Lumotec lights or the BiSY or Schmidt E6. I'm also interested in
the Solidlight 1203D but there are no unfortunately photos of the beam
on their Web site. It'd be nice to not have to think about blowing out
bulbs (the one downside of generator systems using halogen bulbs- for me
anyway since I don't do mountain biking at night. Generator systems
don't work well for mountain biking because of the low speeds).

> at the Dinotte's price I'll gladly bear the occasional extra burden
> of 4 AAs. I mean it's a payload smaller than a chocolate bar, how
> much of a nuisance can it be?

As a randonneur it's a hassle I don't need. I enjoy riding dusk to dawn
but I don't want to have to keep stopping every two hours to fumble
about replacing batteries. In that scenario it's four to six sets of
batteries to swap out in order to get through the night.

I also like the reliability of a generator system. I don't have to make
sure I have fresh batteries (which create adverse environmental issues
in manufacture, transportation to the point of sale and disposal) or to
be certain to have recharged the batteries. I can spontaneously head
out the door, flip and switch and have light for as long as I need. If
I get accidentally caught out in the dark for one reason or another, I
have light again at the flip of a switch.

> Consider: a significant benefit of the Dinotte is that it can be
> switched between my several bikes in less than 2 minutes - no
> exaggeration; it's also relatively cheap, (on sale the Dinotte Ultra
> 5, complete with 4 NiMH AAs and charger, cost IIRC $120 @
> westernbikeworks.com), lightweight, durable and waterproof (so far!).

At the risk of it being on the wrong bike if you get caught out at night
when you weren't planning on it.

> Arguably the light is not for randonneuring or touring but I consider
> it supreme for my needs.

And that of course is the calculus.

[SMS]

Luke wrote:

> Until a generator system offers comparable convenience and power --
> 5W/200 lumens -- at the Dinotte's price I'll gladly bear the occasional
> extra burden of 4 AAs. I mean it's a payload smaller than a chocolate
> bar, how much of a nuisance can it be?
>
> Consider: a significant benefit of the Dinotte is that it can be
> switched between my several bikes in less than 2 minutes - no
> exaggeration; it's also relatively cheap, (on sale the Dinotte Ultra
> 5, complete with 4 NiMH AAs and charger, cost IIRC $120 @
> westernbikeworks.com), lightweight, durable and waterproof (so far!).
>
> Arguably the light is not for randonneuring or touring but I consider
> it supreme for my needs.

It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
anyway.

There is one 12V/6W tire driven dynamo from Busch & Muller but it's
$300. Peter White's site states: "Only Busch & Muller makes a 12 volt
dynamo that meets the German StVZO requirements for safe and efficient
bicycle lighting system."

Maybe the company that makes the Joule hub dynamo for Dahon could be
convinced to do a 12 volt/6W version in more hub types at a reasonable
price. In Singapore, the Joule hub dynamo including an excellent Hella
light sells for $30 (but of course you have to rebuild your wheel).

Still you'd run into the problem that it's often desirable to be able to
move the lights from bicycle to bicycle.

For now, if you want a "safe and efficient bicycle lighting system"
that's reasonably priced you have to go the battery route.

[Tim McNamara]

In article <5kppe6F4veilU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Dave Larrington" <smert.spamionam@privacy.net> wrote:

> In news:timmcn-149CE9.23122611092007@news.iphouse.com, Tim McNamara
> <timmcn@bitstream.net> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:
>
> > Good grief, what a blessed nuisance to have to carry four sets of
> > batteries and swap them out every two hours. Why not just use a
> > generator system?
>
> Tch! You're just being silly, Tim. Surely /everybody/ knows that
> neither LED lights nor dynamo systems are suitable for actually
> seeing where one is going at night. </thudding_irony>

Well, I have been known to be a bit silly at times.

[Dane Buson]

In rec.bicycles.misc Dave Larrington <smert.spamionam@privacy.net> wrote:
> In news:timmcn-149CE9.23122611092007@news.iphouse.com,
> Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:
>
>> Good grief, what a blessed nuisance to have to carry four sets of
>> batteries and swap them out every two hours. Why not just use a
>> generator system?
>
> Tch! You're just being silly, Tim. Surely /everybody/ knows that neither
> LED lights nor dynamo systems are suitable for actually seeing where one is
> going at night.
> </thudding_irony>

Funny. That's not the opinion of the fellow who flipped me off last
night and yelled at me "Dim your lights *******!". I didn't think it
was *that* bright, but evidently I was mistaken. I'll have to be much
more careful of other cyclists on the commute this winter than with my
old light.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"We don't care. We don't have to. We're the Phone Company."

[Tim McNamara]

In article <1189595430.029136.185950@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups. com>,
CoyoteBoy <james.buckle@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 12 Sep, 05:12, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > Good grief, what a blessed nuisance to have to carry four sets of
> > batteries and swap them out every two hours. Why not just use a
> > generator system?
>
> I have no issues carrying extra batteries and swapping them. I'd like
> a dynamo but they dont do 40w 12v ones for less than the price of my
> lights and several sets of fairly lightweight batteries so it just
> isnt sensible.

Why the bloody hell do you think you need a 12V 40W lighting system on a
bike? Unless you have night blindness that is major overkill. 10W
lights are already bright enough to screw up your vision at night, 40W
would just be much worse.

[Alan Braggins]

In article <timmcn-9FF907.07142312092007@news.iphouse.com>, Tim McNamara wrote:
>>
>> Until a generator system offers comparable convenience and power --
>> 5W/200 lumens --
>
>This has been debated at length in other threads and doesn't need to be
>repeated here. Basically, enough light is enough light and more is not
>necessarily better.

That's not the issue. You can get a 5W/200 lumens generator system, what
you can't easily get is one _at the same price as a comparable battery
system_ (and Luke did say "at the Dinotte's price"), at least so long as
you can usually use rechargeables in the battery system. The dynamo system
will be less hassle, but different people with different riding habits will
value that differently.


> I'm also interested in
>the Solidlight 1203D but there are no unfortunately photos of the beam
>on their Web site.

http://www.meiring.org.uk/pdm/Audax/SolidLights_Review.shtml has some
beam photos of the 1203D.


>> Consider: a significant benefit of the Dinotte is that it can be
>> switched between my several bikes in less than 2 minutes - no
>> exaggeration; it's also relatively cheap, (on sale the Dinotte Ultra
>> 5, complete with 4 NiMH AAs and charger, cost IIRC $120 @
>> westernbikeworks.com), lightweight, durable and waterproof (so far!).
>
>At the risk of it being on the wrong bike if you get caught out at night
>when you weren't planning on it.

A dynamo system is harder to swap from bike to bike, and if you put one
on all your bikes the cost goes up further.

[Dane Buson]

In rec.bicycles.misc Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
> In article <120920070250342985%lucasiragusa@rogers.com>,
>
>> at the Dinotte's price I'll gladly bear the occasional extra burden
>> of 4 AAs. I mean it's a payload smaller than a chocolate bar, how
>> much of a nuisance can it be?
>
> As a randonneur it's a hassle I don't need. I enjoy riding dusk to dawn
> but I don't want to have to keep stopping every two hours to fumble
> about replacing batteries. In that scenario it's four to six sets of
> batteries to swap out in order to get through the night.

I have the same problems. I commute in darkness a lot, and I also do
night rides year round with friends. A battery light isn't even close
to tempting until it can last ten hours on a charge and is lighter,
cheaper and more convenient than the dynamo. I don't see that happening
in the next decade or two.

> At the risk of it being on the wrong bike if you get caught out at night
> when you weren't planning on it.

Eh. For myself, the majority of miles are on my commuter. The grocery
bike is only out at night in urban areas, so it just needs see-me lights
- which cheap LEDs do very well. The fixed gear is also usually a day
bike, or urban nights. I suppose I could swap the dynamo lighting
setup fairly easily to it. It would take more time to get the stupid
handlebar clamp moved than the wheel honestly.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
..NET is basically Bill Gates' snake-oil solution to all those registry/DLL hell
problems. Bill Gates is a true genius. He's made installing and maintaining
windows apps so ridiculously difficult and expensive that businesses and
consumers will actually buy into the idea of having their applications on
someone else's server. --Ukab the Great

[Luke]

In article <timmcn-9FF907.07142312092007@news.iphouse.com>, Tim
McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:

> This has been debated at length in other threads and doesn't need to be
> repeated here. Basically, enough light is enough light and more is not
> necessarily better. Most battery powered lights have suboptimal optics
> for cycling, since the lamps they use are not designed for that
> application (I can't speak for the DiNottes since I haven't seen one in
> person);

<snip>

This is just an open request. I used to have a link to a site
comprising night photos of the Dinotte's as well as other LED and IIRC
HID and Halogen light beam profiles. I remember the site was the work
of an enthusiast (not affliated with magazines) and the photos were
part of a comprehensive review of 4 or 5 battery powered lights. Does
anyone have a link to such a site?

[CoyoteBoy]

On 12 Sep, 13:17, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> In article <1189595430.029136.185...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups. com>,
>
> CoyoteBoy <james.buc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 12 Sep, 05:12, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > > Good grief, what a blessed nuisance to have to carry four sets of
> > > batteries and swap them out every two hours. Why not just use a
> > > generator system?
>
> > I have no issues carrying extra batteries and swapping them. I'd like
> > a dynamo but they dont do 40w 12v ones for less than the price of my
> > lights and several sets of fairly lightweight batteries so it just
> > isnt sensible.
>
> Why the bloody hell do you think you need a 12V 40W lighting system on a
> bike? Unless you have night blindness that is major overkill. 10W
> lights are already bright enough to screw up your vision at night, 40W
> would just be much worse.

At 30-40mph off-road with jumps I like being able to see. It screws up
other peoples night sight, sure, but they all crowd in behind me on
descents so they can see better :)

[Peter Clinch]

SMS wrote:

> It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
> anyway.

If there is such a thing it's slipped past me too.

> Maybe the company that makes the Joule hub dynamo for Dahon could be
> convinced to do a 12 volt/6W version in more hub types at a reasonable
> price. In Singapore, the Joule hub dynamo including an excellent Hella
> light sells for $30 (but of course you have to rebuild your wheel).

The SON web site gives some pretty sound technical reasoning for it not
really being a viable thing, at least with current technology. If
Schmidt can't build what they see as a viable unit I doubt that anyone
else can, unless they're using some significantly lateral thinking on
how to go about it.

> Still you'd run into the problem that it's often desirable to be able to
> move the lights from bicycle to bicycle.
>
> For now, if you want a "safe and efficient bicycle lighting system"
> that's reasonably priced you have to go the battery route.

With the caveat of moving them about between bikes noted, the above
sentence is very much For Some Values Of "have to". I have a safe and
efficient bicycle lighting system using a 6V/3W dynohub. I think it was
reasonably priced. Sufficiently reasonable that I got another one for
another bike. My wife has a couple more. "Reasonable" is not an
absolute value, it depends on how much you've got, how much of it you're
willing to spend, and the exact way it meets your needs. Never having
the batteries go flat, carrying around lights but always having them if
I need them meets /my/ particular needs better than my old 10V
rechargeable battery system, which I could have kept using for the
/eminently/ reasonable cost of *nothing* (since I already had them), but
I still found it preferable to buy multiple dynohubs. Mileage varies
(unless you're Scharf, of course).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[frkrygow@gmail.com]

On Sep 12, 8:55 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>
> It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
> anyway.

That makes no sense.

The bicyclist riding at night should not care whether he's got a 12
Volt system, or a 6 Volt system, or a 3 Volt system. As proof, a
Luxeon Star LED uses about 3 Volts.

More to the point, a bicyclist riding at night should not care whether
he's got 6 Watts, or 3 Watts or 20 Watts. Why? Because he should
care about how well he can see the road. "Watts" does not measure
that. "Watts" does not even measure the total amount of light
output. It measures the input electrical power.

I learned this years ago, by comparing headlights with my cycling
friends. My best friend bought a 10 Watt rechargeable halogen unit
that was grossly inferior to my 3 Watt generator light - so much so
that he used it only a couple times before retiring it.

I confirmed this by giving a technical talk on lights at my bike
club. I brought in a 6 Watt rechargeable unit I owned. When we
compared beams, it threw more useful light than a 20 Watt unit owned
by a different friend.

Part of the problem is optics, and another part is bulb (or emitter)
efficiency. Regarding efficiency, you want the bulb or emitter to
give a suitably large number of lumens output per Watt input. LEDs
are making great strides in that efficiency. Regarding optics, you
want those lumens to be directed properly onto the road surface.
AFAIK, there is nothing on the market that beats a good generator
headlamp's optics.

So what you want are enough lumens directed properly on the road.
Voltage doesn't really matter, and given the rapid improvements in
LEDs, Wattage is only vaguely related.

> For now, if you want a "safe and efficient bicycle lighting system"
> that's reasonably priced you have to go the battery route.

Of course, Steven M. Scharf (AKA "SMS"), you insist on ignoring the
millions upon millions of cyclists who ride, safely and efficiently,
using the most popular means of bike lighting in the world - the
generator set.

- Frank Krygowski

[David Damerell]

Quoting SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>:
>It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
>anyway.

Liar. As you've been told several times before, many of the hub dynamos
already out there will do 12V/6W quite happily.
--
OPTIONS=name:Kirsty,menustyle:C,female,lit_corrido r,standout,time,showexp,hilit
e_pet,catname:Akane,dogname:Ryoga,fruit:okonomiyak i,pickup_types:"!$?=/,scores:
5 top/2 around,color,boulder:0,autoquiver,autodig,disclose :yiyayvygyc,pickup_bu
rden:burdened,!cmdassist,msg_window:reversed,!spar kle,horsename:Rumiko,showrace

[M-gineering]

SMS wrote:

> It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
> anyway.

Of course you /could/ Google on '12v/6w AND dynamo', but that wouldn't
be sporting


--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

[Alan Braggins]

In article <46e7e17d$0$27207$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, SMS wrote:
>
>It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
>anyway.

Most if not all hub dynamos will put 12V across a 6W load.

[Dane Buson]

In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> For now, if you want a "safe and efficient bicycle lighting system"
> that's reasonably priced you have to go the battery route.

Funny, that's not the conclusion any of the rest of us actual dynamo
users is. Find me a battery light that gives ten hours of light on one
charge and we might be able to talk.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
clone, n:
1. An exact duplicate, as in "our product is a clone of their
product." 2. A shoddy, spurious copy, as in "their product
is a clone of our product."

[SMS]

Peter Clinch wrote:

>> For now, if you want a "safe and efficient bicycle lighting system"
>> that's reasonably priced you have to go the battery route.
>
> With the caveat of moving them about between bikes noted, the above
> sentence is very much For Some Values Of "have to".

I tend to agree with the statement on Peter White's web site "Only Busch
& Muller makes a 12 volt dynamo that meets the German StVZO requirements
for safe and efficient bicycle lighting system."

I guess it depends on whether you believe that the German requirements
are reasonable. In my extensive experience with German safety agencies,
Germany is very stringent about this sort of product, much more so than
agencies such as British Standards or the U.S. and Canadian agencies.
I've only worked with TUV, not the StVZO (Germany's traffic safety
department), but the thoroughness extends across agencies.

[Tim McNamara]

In article <1189604115.178468.273820@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.c om>,
CoyoteBoy <james.buckle@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 12 Sep, 13:17, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > In article <1189595430.029136.185...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups. com>,
> >
> > CoyoteBoy <james.buc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 12 Sep, 05:12, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> >
> > > > Good grief, what a blessed nuisance to have to carry four sets
> > > > of batteries and swap them out every two hours. Why not just
> > > > use a generator system?
> >
> > > I have no issues carrying extra batteries and swapping them. I'd
> > > like a dynamo but they dont do 40w 12v ones for less than the
> > > price of my lights and several sets of fairly lightweight
> > > batteries so it just isnt sensible.
> >
> > Why the bloody hell do you think you need a 12V 40W lighting system
> > on a bike? Unless you have night blindness that is major overkill.
> > 10W lights are already bright enough to screw up your vision at
> > night, 40W would just be much worse.
>
> At 30-40mph off-road with jumps I like being able to see. It screws
> up other peoples night sight, sure, but they all crowd in behind me
> on descents so they can see better :)

Testosterone poisoning must adversely affect one's eyesight.

[SMS]

M-gineering wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>
>> It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
>> anyway.
>
> Of course you /could/ Google on '12v/6w AND dynamo', but that wouldn't
> be sporting

Which would show you 12V/6W bottle dynamos. Sure the SON can be pushed
to that at higher speeds, but it's not practical for many users.

[Peter Clinch]

SMS wrote:

> I tend to agree with the statement on Peter White's web site "Only Busch
> & Muller makes a 12 volt dynamo that meets the German StVZO requirements
> for safe and efficient bicycle lighting system."

But is that "safe, efficient, and meets the standards, period", or
"safe, efficient, meets the standards *and* that happens to be a 12V
dynamo"? I think it's the latter. Plenty of non-12W systems are quite
safe, /and/ pass German standards.

> I guess it depends on whether you believe that the German requirements
> are reasonable. In my extensive experience with German safety agencies,
> Germany is very stringent about this sort of product, much more so than
> agencies such as British Standards or the U.S. and Canadian agencies.
> I've only worked with TUV, not the StVZO (Germany's traffic safety
> department), but the thoroughness extends across agencies.

So how come it's considered perfectly reasonable by the Germans to go
around with 6V dynamos, as practically all of their cycling population
do? Looks as though you've mis-read the statement above to fit your
preconceptions.

Why do I think a standard Schmidt SON is safe and efficient? Because I
never have any problems when I'm riding around with it running my lights
so I can see where I'm going. Still, when did direct empirical evidence
ever help anyone?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[M-gineering]

SMS wrote:

> I guess it depends on whether you believe that the German requirements
> are reasonable.


they are very detailed, but not well suited to current technology. And
they are not written as a minimum requirement only but do limit
lightoutput too. I can't see the point in worrying about them on the
other side of the globe!
--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

[A R:nen]

SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> writes:

> I've only worked with TUV, not the StVZO (Germany's
> traffic safety department), but the thoroughness extends across
> agencies.

StVZO is the German Road Vehicles Act (or something to that effect,
not a literal translation), not an organization.

[Tim McNamara]

In article <46e7ec80$0$27201$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> I tend to agree with the statement on Peter White's web site "Only
> Busch & Muller makes a 12 volt dynamo that meets the German StVZO
> requirements for safe and efficient bicycle lighting system."

Bully for you. I am sure that B&M will be delighted to hear it.
Unfortunately this is one of those statements that only sounds like it
means something.

[SMS]

Alan Braggins wrote:

> A dynamo system is harder to swap from bike to bike, and if you put one
> on all your bikes the cost goes up further.

For very long night rides, i.e. randonneuring, the expense of a good
dynamo system makes sense.

For commuting, you usually want a brighter, safer system, and it's easy
to get into the habit of charging your battery pack (or batteries) when
you get home.

The Cree LED flashlights look to be a very good choice for an
economical, bright bicycle light. They provide about 2.5x the
illumination of a halogen 3W lamp that is typically used with a dynamo
system.

As to the SolidLight, it looks like there is finally a very good
headlight for dynamo _or_ battery powered systems, though it's very
expensive.

Peter White's site states "The DH-3N70/71 hub can power either a single
headlight with a 3 watt bulb, or a 2.4 watt headlight and .6 watt
taillight combination." I presume that this is not correct if the
SolidLight has two LEDs, each drawing 3 watts.

While the SON hub can power two 3W lamps, you have to be going at least
10mph to have adequate light output.

[David Damerell]

Quoting Alan Braggins <armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk>:
>Tim McNamara wrote:
>>>Until a generator system offers comparable convenience and power --
>>>5W/200 lumens --
>>This has been debated at length in other threads and doesn't need to be
>>repeated here. Basically, enough light is enough light and more is not
>>necessarily better.
>That's not the issue. You can get a 5W/200 lumens generator system, what
>you can't easily get is one _at the same price as a comparable battery
>system_ (and Luke did say "at the Dinotte's price"),

That's not quite what Tim is saying, though; what he's saying (which I
agree with) is if you don't mind abandoning the headline 5W figure you can
get just as many photons in useful places for the same price.
--
OPTIONS=name:Kirsty,menustyle:C,female,lit_corrido r,standout,time,showexp,hilit
e_pet,catname:Akane,dogname:Ryoga,fruit:okonomiyak i,pickup_types:"!$?=/,scores:
5 top/2 around,color,boulder:0,autoquiver,autodig,disclose :yiyayvygyc,pickup_bu
rden:burdened,!cmdassist,msg_window:reversed,!spar kle,horsename:Rumiko,showrace

[Tim McNamara]

In article <slrnfefr8q.uls.armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote:

> In article <timmcn-9FF907.07142312092007@news.iphouse.com>, Tim
> McNamara wrote:
> >>
> >> Until a generator system offers comparable convenience and power
> >> -- 5W/200 lumens --
> >
> >This has been debated at length in other threads and doesn't need to
> >be repeated here. Basically, enough light is enough light and more
> >is not necessarily better.
>
> That's not the issue. You can get a 5W/200 lumens generator system,
> what you can't easily get is one _at the same price as a comparable
> battery system_ (and Luke did say "at the Dinotte's price"), at least
> so long as you can usually use rechargeables in the battery system.
> The dynamo system will be less hassle, but different people with
> different riding habits will value that differently.

As I said in reply to another post, that's the calculus.

> >I'm also interested in the Solidlight 1203D but there are no
> >unfortunately photos of the beam on their Web site.
>
> http://www.meiring.org.uk/pdm/Audax/SolidLights_Review.shtml has some
> beam photos of the 1203D.

Thanks! That's very useful.

> >> Consider: a significant benefit of the Dinotte is that it can be
> >> switched between my several bikes in less than 2 minutes - no
> >> exaggeration; it's also relatively cheap, (on sale the Dinotte
> >> Ultra 5, complete with 4 NiMH AAs and charger, cost IIRC $120 @
> >> westernbikeworks.com), lightweight, durable and waterproof (so
> >> far!).
> >
> >At the risk of it being on the wrong bike if you get caught out at
> >night when you weren't planning on it.
>
> A dynamo system is harder to swap from bike to bike, and if you put
> one on all your bikes the cost goes up further.

It's easy to put a lamp on each bike and just swap the wheel (this of
course means a hub generator). That's been my solution. The one bike
with a different wheel size has its own generator which I happened to
get for free.

[SMS]

Alan Braggins wrote:
> In article <46e7e17d$0$27207$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, SMS wrote:
>> It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
>> anyway.
>
> Most if not all hub dynamos will put 12V across a 6W load.

Right, but at what rpm for the hub, and speed for the bicycle? Maybe
it'd work great on a Brompton!

[Clive George]

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:46e7f311$0$27182$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...

> For very long night rides, i.e. randonneuring, the expense of a good
> dynamo system makes sense.
>
> For commuting, you usually want a brighter, safer system, and it's easy to
> get into the habit of charging your battery pack (or batteries) when you
> get home.

<snort> I've got a bright, safe system on a bike which gets commuting-type
use, and I don't need to charge it. Ever. Suits me very well.

> Peter White's site states "The DH-3N70/71 hub can power either a single
> headlight with a 3 watt bulb, or a 2.4 watt headlight and .6 watt
> taillight combination." I presume that this is not correct if the
> SolidLight has two LEDs, each drawing 3 watts.

The dynamos are designed to provice at a minimum 3W at 6 volts, as Peter
White's site says. However, as I believe he mentions (ooh yes - look, it's
even on the same page as the bit you quoted), they can produce higher power
too - they're essentially current-limited devices, not voltage-limited. Do
you understand the electrics stuff here, or do you need it explaining?

> While the SON hub can power two 3W lamps, you have to be going at least
> 10mph to have adequate light output.

German rules state adequte light output from 5.5 mph - you appear to have
selective vision wrt Peter White's site, as he says it there. The SON is
German, and legal over there, so it can provide that output.

The SolidLight only draws what power is available - so as you slow down your
light will dim from "more than adequate" to "adequate".

clive

[Peter Clinch]

SMS wrote:

> For commuting, you usually want a brighter, safer system, and it's easy
> to get into the habit of charging your battery pack (or batteries) when
> you get home.

Well, you say "you", so i'll take that as "me". And I don't, actually.
I want something that doesn't require me to bugger about with charging
anything, ever, and is bright /enough/ for the job. I used to have a
brighter rechargeable 10W system and I gave it away because it turns out
I didn't "usually" want it.

> While the SON hub can power two 3W lamps, you have to be going at least
> 10mph to have adequate light output.

Well that's not really a problem, because below 10 mph you need damn all
light to be safe except in a "be seen" manner, and you'll get quite
enough for that.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Alan Braggins]

In article <46e7f311$0$27182$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, SMS wrote:
>
>The Cree LED flashlights look to be a very good choice for an
>economical, bright bicycle light. They provide about 2.5x the
>illumination of a halogen 3W lamp that is typically used with a dynamo
>system.

That's because Cree LEDs are more efficient than 3W halogen bulbs,
nothing to do with whether they are powered by batteries or dynamos,
and ignores the fact that a typical dynamo light has a better beam
pattern for road use than a flashlight.


>Peter White's site states "The DH-3N70/71 hub can power either a single
>headlight with a 3 watt bulb, or a 2.4 watt headlight and .6 watt
>taillight combination." I presume that this is not correct if the
>SolidLight has two LEDs, each drawing 3 watts.

It's correct, but it's not the whole story, which is why Peter's site
goes on to explain secondary light setups.


>While the SON hub can power two 3W lamps, you have to be going at least
>10mph to have adequate light output.

With two unswitched non-LED based lights and no series capacitor
(like that in the E6z), maybe. Don't do that then.

[Dane Buson]

In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> Alan Braggins wrote:
>
>> A dynamo system is harder to swap from bike to bike, and if you put one
>> on all your bikes the cost goes up further.
>
> For very long night rides, i.e. randonneuring, the expense of a good
> dynamo system makes sense.

Or you know, anyone who actually rides their bike transportationally.
If you just ride when the it's bright and sunny out, they're totally
inappropriate.

> For commuting, you usually want a brighter, safer system, and it's easy
> to get into the habit of charging your battery pack (or batteries) when
> you get home.

Nonsense. Charging batteries sucks. The first thing I want to do when
I get home from work is shed my clothes, pull on some dry clean ones and
go spend time with my family. Fiddling with my lights and batteries
sucks.

No, it's not hard. But it's prone to failure (human error) and
annoying.

> The Cree LED flashlights look to be a very good choice for an
> economical, bright bicycle light. They provide about 2.5x the
> illumination of a halogen 3W lamp that is typically used with a dynamo
> system.
>
> As to the SolidLight, it looks like there is finally a very good
> headlight for dynamo _or_ battery powered systems, though it's very
> expensive.

Yup, I think that has more to do with the economies of scale than
anything else though. I think there were already very good dynamo
headlights available (though I know you are constitutionally incapable
of admitting that).

> Peter White's site states "The DH-3N70/71 hub can power either a single
> headlight with a 3 watt bulb, or a 2.4 watt headlight and .6 watt
> taillight combination." I presume that this is not correct if the
> SolidLight has two LEDs, each drawing 3 watts.

Yup, the Shimano hub can easily drive it up to 6 watts, as multiple
people have posted.

> While the SON hub can power two 3W lamps, you have to be going at least
> 10mph to have adequate light output.

So what? Do you need stadium quality lighting at 8 mph? MTBers do, I
don't. Is your commute across an MTB park or something?

Anyway, as I posted earlier, the lighting at 8 mph is outstanding on the
1203d. I had a chance to use it on a very dark area (Interlaken park
drive) and it was amazing how much it lit up.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"High explosives are often applicable
where truth and logic fail."

[Clive George]

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:46e7f365$0$27182$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Alan Braggins wrote:
>> In article <46e7e17d$0$27207$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, SMS wrote:
>>> It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
>>> anyway.
>>
>> Most if not all hub dynamos will put 12V across a 6W load.
>
> Right, but at what rpm for the hub, and speed for the bicycle? Maybe it'd
> work great on a Brompton!

At 12mph plus. Slower than that, eg going uphill, and you don't need the
full 6W - 3W is entirely adequate. Heck, I regularly find 3W adequate at >
30mph on unlit roads...

clive

[Alan Braggins]

In article <46e7f365$0$27182$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, SMS wrote:
>Alan Braggins wrote:
>> In article <46e7e17d$0$27207$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, SMS wrote:
>>> It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
>>> anyway.
>>
>> Most if not all hub dynamos will put 12V across a 6W load.
>
>Right, but at what rpm for the hub, and speed for the bicycle? Maybe
>it'd work great on a Brompton!

Bromptons have narrower than usual hubs, so it would have to be be a
SON XS, which is specifically designed for the higher rpm of smaller
wheels at the same speed. But if you wanted unnecessarily higher output
at lower revs you could build a SON XS with spacers into a large wheel.

[Clive George]

"Alan Braggins" <armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnfeg77s.42r.armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk...

> Bromptons have narrower than usual hubs, so it would have to be be a
> SON XS, which is specifically designed for the higher rpm of smaller
> wheels at the same speed. But if you wanted unnecessarily higher output
> at lower revs you could build a SON XS with spacers into a large wheel.

T'other way round - XS produces less per rpm than the ones designed for big
wheels.

cheers,
clive

[M-gineering]

Alan Braggins wrote:

> Bromptons have narrower than usual hubs, so it would have to be be a
> SON XS, which is specifically designed for the higher rpm of smaller
> wheels at the same speed. But if you wanted unnecessarily higher output
> at lower revs you could build a SON XS with spacers into a large wheel.

All 'normal' SON hubs are available in a version for 20" wheels, and the
XS is available with a 100mm wide axle. Built in a large wheel the
dynamo's for 20" give less output/resistance at a given speed
--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

[Alan Braggins]

In article <13eg8688t7i1s82@corp.supernews.com>, Clive George wrote:
>"Alan Braggins" <armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
>news:slrnfeg77s.42r.armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk...
>
>> Bromptons have narrower than usual hubs, so it would have to be be a
>> SON XS, which is specifically designed for the higher rpm of smaller
>> wheels at the same speed. But if you wanted unnecessarily higher output
>> at lower revs you could build a SON XS with spacers into a large wheel.
>
>T'other way round - XS produces less per rpm than the ones designed for big
>wheels.

So it is. Bother - strike that second bit, and use a non-XS in a small
wheel bike with wider hubs.

[Dane Buson]

In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> M-gineering wrote:
>> SMS wrote:
>>
>>> It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
>>> anyway.
>>
>> Of course you /could/ Google on '12v/6w AND dynamo', but that wouldn't
>> be sporting
>
> Which would show you 12V/6W bottle dynamos. Sure the SON can be pushed
> to that at higher speeds, but it's not practical for many users.

Why not? The only time you need the very top of the watt range is going
downhill. Anyone can coast down a hill.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"Here's something to think about: How come you never see a headline like
`Psychic Wins Lottery'?"
-- Jay Leno

[Chris Gerhard]

SMS wrote:
> M-gineering wrote:
>> SMS wrote:
>>
>>> It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
>>> anyway.
>>
>> Of course you /could/ Google on '12v/6w AND dynamo', but that wouldn't
>> be sporting
>
> Which would show you 12V/6W bottle dynamos. Sure the SON can be pushed
> to that at higher speeds, but it's not practical for many users.

My son is wired for 12V and only when the speed drops below 10mph does
it fade, but then at that speed it is really not a problem.

--chris

[David Damerell]

Quoting SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>:
>M-gineering wrote:
>>Of course you /could/ Google on '12v/6w AND dynamo', but that wouldn't
>>be sporting
>Which would show you 12V/6W bottle dynamos. Sure the SON can be pushed
>to that at higher speeds,

As can the Shimano and S-A models. As you have been told _many times
before_. This isn't forgetfulness; you're just lying.

And while 10mph is technically higher, it's not exactly high.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Today is Potmos, September.

[SMS]

Dane Buson wrote:

> Funny. That's not the opinion of the fellow who flipped me off last
> night and yelled at me "Dim your lights *******!". I didn't think it
> was *that* bright, but evidently I was mistaken. I'll have to be much
> more careful of other cyclists on the commute this winter than with my
> old light.

Sounds like there's finally a decent dynamo light available. I see that
they make similar battery powered lights as well. What's particularly
good is the beam pattern with a center spot, combined with sufficient
beam spread out to the sides; a broad pattern is where most dynamo
lights fall short, but they have to concentrate their limited output in
a center spot.

The Fenix, mentioned earlier, with the 3W Cree LED has a similarly good
beam pattern for cycling. All that needs to be done is to hook up one or
two Fenix flashlights to a dynamo, via a buck/boost regulator.

[frkrygow@gmail.com]

On Sep 12, 1:54 pm, Dane Buson <d...@unseen.edu> wrote:
> In rec.bicycles.misc Dave Larrington <smert.spamio...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>
> > Tch! You're just being silly, Tim. Surely /everybody/ knows that neither
> > LED lights nor dynamo systems are suitable for actually seeing where one is
> > going at night.
> > </thudding_irony>
>
> Funny. That's not the opinion of the fellow who flipped me off last
> night and yelled at me "Dim your lights *******!". I didn't think it
> was *that* bright, but evidently I was mistaken. I'll have to be much
> more careful of other cyclists on the commute this winter than with my
> old light.

Hmm. Sounds like the Solidlights unit could benefit from a proper
front lens! If it's blinding oncoming people, it's definitely wasting
light.

- Frank Krygowski

[Dane Buson]

In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
>
>> Funny. That's not the opinion of the fellow who flipped me off last
>> night and yelled at me "Dim your lights *******!". I didn't think it
>> was *that* bright, but evidently I was mistaken. I'll have to be much
>> more careful of other cyclists on the commute this winter than with my
>> old light.
>
> Sounds like there's finally a decent dynamo light available. I see that
> they make similar battery powered lights as well. What's particularly
> good is the beam pattern with a center spot, combined with sufficient
> beam spread out to the sides; a broad pattern is where most dynamo
> lights fall short, but they have to concentrate their limited output in
> a center spot.

Actually, in some ways, it's too much of a good thing. It has some of
the same problems every battery light I've seen has. It beam is not
shaped as well as the dynamo headlights. The dynamo headlights really
do have better optics.

> The Fenix, mentioned earlier, with the 3W Cree LED has a similarly good
> beam pattern for cycling. All that needs to be done is to hook up one or
> two Fenix flashlights to a dynamo, via a buck/boost regulator.

The newer LEDs are really outstanding. I really wish the companies
would move a little faster getting them into bike products.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
"Ah well, back to the cutting edge on the
coal-face of e-commerce." -- Charlie Stross

[Alan Braggins]

In article <46e838be$0$27158$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, SMS wrote:
>
>The Fenix, mentioned earlier, with the 3W Cree LED has a similarly good
>beam pattern for cycling. All that needs to be done is to hook up one or
>two Fenix flashlights to a dynamo, via a buck/boost regulator.

Hub dynamos are essentially current limited devices, so a buck/boost
regulator is unnecessary, unless you need it to work with more unnecessary
regulation already in the flashlight. (Or you want the light to be regulated
when running off a battery pack on another bike, which I believe is possible
with the Solidlights 1203d.)

[Alan Braggins]

In article <r4slr4-jas.ln1@curare.zuvembi.homelinux.org>, Dane Buson wrote:
>users is. Find me a battery light that gives ten hours of light on o