Headset not staying set.

[Kenny]

Installed my Easton 90 SL fork about 3 weeks ago. Got the expansion
plug into the steerer about an inch from the end of the steerer tube
and torqued down the headset until there was no play. I then torqued
down the stem bolts using a Richey TorqueKey until it clicked which
occurs at 5Nm. Because the stem bolts should keep the headset set, I
loosen the stem cap bolt so I can align the printing on the stem cap
to be inline with the top tube for aesthetic reasons. The headset
didn't give me any problems until today's ride. I could feel the
headset begin to get wobbly. At the rest stop, I borrow some tools and
re tighten the headset until the excess play is removed and continue
on the ride. After about another 9ks it goes loose again. I decide to
crank it down again and add a little more oomf. No good. Came loose
again. Came home and took off the stem cap to see if the expansion
plug has moved. It has not. The only thing I can think of that would
cause the headset to loosen is that the stem bolts were not torqued
down tight enough. Come to think of it, even if the expansion plug
came loose it shouldn't have caused the headset to loosen. Would under
torqued stem bolts cause the headset to loosen? Would leaving the stem
cap torqued down help keep the headset set? Any ideas?

[Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com]

Kenny wrote:
> Installed my Easton 90 SL fork about 3 weeks ago. Got the expansion
> plug into the steerer about an inch from the end of the steerer tube
> and torqued down the headset until there was no play. I then torqued
> down the stem bolts using a Richey TorqueKey until it clicked which
> occurs at 5Nm. Because the stem bolts should keep the headset set, I
> loosen the stem cap bolt so I can align the printing on the stem cap
> to be inline with the top tube for aesthetic reasons. The headset
> didn't give me any problems until today's ride. I could feel the
> headset begin to get wobbly. At the rest stop, I borrow some tools and
> re tighten the headset until the excess play is removed and continue
> on the ride. After about another 9ks it goes loose again. I decide to
> crank it down again and add a little more oomf. No good. Came loose
> again. Came home and took off the stem cap to see if the expansion
> plug has moved. It has not. The only thing I can think of that would
> cause the headset to loosen is that the stem bolts were not torqued
> down tight enough. Come to think of it, even if the expansion plug
> came loose it shouldn't have caused the headset to loosen. Would under
> torqued stem bolts cause the headset to loosen? Would leaving the stem
> cap torqued down help keep the headset set? Any ideas?

Have the headtube faced if possible, and ensure the fork steerer is
not greased in any way. The expansion plug loosening cannot make the
HS get loose. Having the stem move up the steerer after adjustment,
while riding is the only thing that cause the HS to get loose.

[unforgiven99@juno.com]

On Sep 9, 8:04 am, Kenny <Postoas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Installed my Easton 90 SL fork about 3 weeks ago. Got the expansion
> plug into the steerer about an inch from the end of the steerer tube
> and torqued down the headset until there was no play. I then torqued
> down the stem bolts using a Richey TorqueKey until it clicked which
> occurs at 5Nm. Because the stem bolts should keep the headset set, I
> loosen the stem cap bolt so I can align the printing on the stem cap
> to be inline with the top tube for aesthetic reasons. The headset
> didn't give me any problems until today's ride. I could feel the
> headset begin to get wobbly. At the rest stop, I borrow some tools and
> re tighten the headset until the excess play is removed and continue
> on the ride. After about another 9ks it goes loose again. I decide to
> crank it down again and add a little more oomf. No good. Came loose
> again. Came home and took off the stem cap to see if the expansion
> plug has moved. It has not. The only thing I can think of that would
> cause the headset to loosen is that the stem bolts were not torqued
> down tight enough. Come to think of it, even if the expansion plug
> came loose it shouldn't have caused the headset to loosen. Would under
> torqued stem bolts cause the headset to loosen? Would leaving the stem
> cap torqued down help keep the headset set? Any ideas?

I would try some carbon assembly goo before upping the stem bolt
torque:
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/CM407B09-Fsa+Carbon+Seatpost+Installation+Compoun.aspx

[Lou Holtman]

Kenny wrote:
> Installed my Easton 90 SL fork about 3 weeks ago. Got the expansion
> plug into the steerer about an inch from the end of the steerer tube
> and torqued down the headset until there was no play. I then torqued
> down the stem bolts using a Richey TorqueKey until it clicked which
> occurs at 5Nm. Because the stem bolts should keep the headset set, I
> loosen the stem cap bolt so I can align the printing on the stem cap
> to be inline with the top tube for aesthetic reasons. The headset
> didn't give me any problems until today's ride. I could feel the
> headset begin to get wobbly. At the rest stop, I borrow some tools and
> re tighten the headset until the excess play is removed and continue
> on the ride. After about another 9ks it goes loose again. I decide to
> crank it down again and add a little more oomf. No good. Came loose
> again. Came home and took off the stem cap to see if the expansion
> plug has moved. It has not. The only thing I can think of that would
> cause the headset to loosen is that the stem bolts were not torqued
> down tight enough. Come to think of it, even if the expansion plug
> came loose it shouldn't have caused the headset to loosen. Would under
> torqued stem bolts cause the headset to loosen? Would leaving the stem
> cap torqued down help keep the headset set? Any ideas?
>


My LBS mechanic says 'keep the stem cap bolt torqued'. I asked why. He
said 'because otherwise the headset will become loose'. Again I asked
why. 'Experience' he said.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu (http://www.nb.nu)

[jim beam]

Kenny wrote:
> Installed my Easton 90 SL fork about 3 weeks ago. Got the expansion
> plug into the steerer about an inch from the end of the steerer tube
> and torqued down the headset until there was no play. I then torqued
> down the stem bolts using a Richey TorqueKey until it clicked which
> occurs at 5Nm. Because the stem bolts should keep the headset set, I
> loosen the stem cap bolt so I can align the printing on the stem cap
> to be inline with the top tube for aesthetic reasons. The headset
> didn't give me any problems until today's ride. I could feel the
> headset begin to get wobbly. At the rest stop, I borrow some tools and
> re tighten the headset until the excess play is removed and continue
> on the ride. After about another 9ks it goes loose again. I decide to
> crank it down again and add a little more oomf. No good. Came loose
> again. Came home and took off the stem cap to see if the expansion
> plug has moved. It has not. The only thing I can think of that would
> cause the headset to loosen is that the stem bolts were not torqued
> down tight enough. Come to think of it, even if the expansion plug
> came loose it shouldn't have caused the headset to loosen. Would under
> torqued stem bolts cause the headset to loosen? Would leaving the stem
> cap torqued down help keep the headset set? Any ideas?
>

try a spacer on top of the stem - ensures the tension cap is not
pressing on the top of the tube and is thus not compressing against the
stem fully.

[David L. Johnson]

Kenny wrote:
> Installed my Easton 90 SL fork about 3 weeks ago. ...
> The headset
> didn't give me any problems until today's ride.

> came loose it shouldn't have caused the headset to loosen. Would under
> torqued stem bolts cause the headset to loosen? Would leaving the stem
> cap torqued down help keep the headset set? Any ideas?

I'm fairly certain that the headset cups were not well pressed into the
frame (and maybe the fork crown). They are in the process of seating
themselves. If the frame was not prepped, including facing the
headtube, that could cause the trouble.

You could pull the cups out and re-do it, or just press them in more
now. Or, you could hope that they are now better seated.

--

David L. Johnson

Some people used to claim that, if enough monkeys sat in front of
enough typewriters and typed long enough, eventually one of them would
reproduce the collected works of Shakespeare. The internet has
proven this not to be the case.

[Hobbes@spnb&s.com]

On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 05:04:23 -0700, Kenny <Postoasted@gmail.com> wrote:

>Installed my Easton 90 SL fork about 3 weeks ago. Got the expansion
>plug into the steerer about an inch from the end of the steerer tube
>and torqued down the headset until there was no play. I then torqued
>down the stem bolts using a Richey TorqueKey until it clicked which
>occurs at 5Nm. Because the stem bolts should keep the headset set, I
>loosen the stem cap bolt so I can align the printing on the stem cap
>to be inline with the top tube for aesthetic reasons. The headset
>didn't give me any problems until today's ride. I could feel the
>headset begin to get wobbly. At the rest stop, I borrow some tools and
>re tighten the headset until the excess play is removed and continue
>on the ride. After about another 9ks it goes loose again. I decide to
>crank it down again and add a little more oomf. No good. Came loose
>again. Came home and took off the stem cap to see if the expansion
>plug has moved. It has not. The only thing I can think of that would
>cause the headset to loosen is that the stem bolts were not torqued
>down tight enough. Come to think of it, even if the expansion plug
>came loose it shouldn't have caused the headset to loosen. Would under
>torqued stem bolts cause the headset to loosen? Would leaving the stem
>cap torqued down help keep the headset set? Any ideas?

Yes, under torqued stem bolts could be the culprit. The cap isn't expected to
retain the setting and shouldn't be a factor here. It isn't unusual to have to
readjust after the bearing races settle.

Ron

[velodancer]

Aluminum frame? If the head tube has become oval shaped, headsets will
become out of adjustment in just a couple miles as you describe.
Probably the same effect with poor facing as others have mentioned.

[Kenny]

First off, I cut the steerer to a length that left about a 5mm gap
between the top of the steerer and the top of the stem. This would
preclude the the steerer bottoming out into the stem cap. As far as
facing the head tube, well , this is my main steed that I've been
riding for the last five years and I haven't removed the cups in that
period so I don't think it's the culprit. But, when installing the new
fork I had to remove the fork crown bearing race from the old fork and
install it onto the new fork and I could have sworn that I pounded it
down untill it was flush against the fork crown. I don't know if this
matters but my stem is a 1 1/8" Richey WCS stem with 4mm stem bolts
and is installed using a 1" adapter. Anyway, I think I got some good
leads here on what might be causing the problem. Thanks for the
insights.

Kenny

[jim beam]

Kenny wrote:
> First off, I cut the steerer to a length that left about a 5mm gap
> between the top of the steerer and the top of the stem. This would
> preclude the the steerer bottoming out into the stem cap.

that's not guaranteed in practice. that's why most people use a short
spacer on top of the stem. it has an added benefit of the stem clamping
with 100% of its surface area too.


> As far as
> facing the head tube, well , this is my main steed that I've been
> riding for the last five years and I haven't removed the cups in that
> period so I don't think it's the culprit. But, when installing the new
> fork I had to remove the fork crown bearing race from the old fork and
> install it onto the new fork and I could have sworn that I pounded it
> down untill it was flush against the fork crown. I don't know if this
> matters but my stem is a 1 1/8" Richey WCS stem with 4mm stem bolts
> and is installed using a 1" adapter. Anyway, I think I got some good
> leads here on what might be causing the problem. Thanks for the
> insights.
>
> Kenny
>
>

[Kenny]

After adding a quarter inch spacer atop the stem as per JB's
suggestion and as part of my process of elimination to find the
answer, I proceed to really torque down on the stem cap bolt. I torque
it down until the stem cap bolt doesn't want to move anymore. I then
proceed to torque down the stem bolts to 5Nm after which I remove the
stem cap to see where the top of the steerer is in relation to the top
of the stem. Didn't quantify the gap, but it's significant so I don't
think I need the added spacer. But upon more careful inspection I
notice that even though I really give the stem cap bolt some serious
torquing down I could still see a visible gap that has the width of a
piece of paper between the bearing cap and the top bearing cup.
Thinking that this is a harbinger of HS loosening, I again go through
the process of torquing down the stem cap bolt with elimination of the
gap as my goal. I failed. The gap didn't even budge. Am I wrong in
thinking that the gap is a harbinger of HS loosening? Suggestions?

[!Jones]

On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 17:37:03 -0700, in rec.bicycles.tech Kenny
<Postoasted@gmail.com> wrote:

>Suggestions?

I don't know squat 'bout headsets; however... I smell a thread
bottomed out. It ain't "loosening"; there's no torque in that
direction.

That's prolly not a whole lot of help. Check the length of your
bolts.

What helps me is to tell myself: "There is a *reason* this is hapening
and I have control over it."

Jones