PC-1 chain junk, or is it my sprocket?

[landotter]

Maybe 3K on this drivetrain, fixed gear. Measured chain yesterday,
there was 1/16" of stretch, so I grabbed an SRAM PC-1 at the LBS and
swapped it out this morning. There is no tension and no slack--dialed
in perfectly, but it's LOUD when it meshes with the cog.

Could it be that I wore out the cog in 3K?? It doesn't look worn short
of the plating being chipped a little. Also, the SS chain I took off
looks to be a 3/16" model and the PC-1 is a 1/4"--but shouldn't really
matter, should it? Or does this low end chain simply suck?

This is one of those times I wished I had a Miche system and could
just flip the dang thing over.

[landotter]

> This is one of those times I wished I had a Miche system and could
> just flip the dang thing over.

D'oh! Can't flip it over, but I can certainly pedal it in reverse, and
it's equally noisy, thus unlikely to be the cog. I tried relubing with
WL (hey, only use it on cheap SS chains) and it's still sounds like
steam-punk animatronics. I guess I'll just have to get another nickel
plated KMC--cheap and decent.

[Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com]

landotter wrote:
> Maybe 3K on this drivetrain, fixed gear. Measured chain yesterday,
> there was 1/16" of stretch, so I grabbed an SRAM PC-1 at the LBS and
> swapped it out this morning. There is no tension and no slack--dialed
> in perfectly, but it's LOUD when it meshes with the cog.
>
> Could it be that I wore out the cog in 3K?? It doesn't look worn short
> of the plating being chipped a little. Also, the SS chain I took off
> looks to be a 3/16" model and the PC-1 is a 1/4"--but shouldn't really
> matter, should it? Or does this low end chain simply suck?
>
> This is one of those times I wished I had a Miche system and could
> just flip the dang thing over.

All fixie systems have a tight, then loose section. None provide the
same chain tension thruout the pedal cycle. I'm suspecting that the
'tight' section is a wee bit too tight, but I can't hear it. PLUS
using an 1/8 inch chain on a 3/32 cog CAN make for some noise as the
chain moves left/right. I would try a 3/32 chain and make sure the
tight section isn't too tight.

[A Muzi]

landotter wrote:
> Maybe 3K on this drivetrain, fixed gear. Measured chain yesterday,
> there was 1/16" of stretch, so I grabbed an SRAM PC-1 at the LBS and
> swapped it out this morning. There is no tension and no slack--dialed
> in perfectly, but it's LOUD when it meshes with the cog.
>
> Could it be that I wore out the cog in 3K?? It doesn't look worn short
> of the plating being chipped a little. Also, the SS chain I took off
> looks to be a 3/16" model and the PC-1 is a 1/4"--but shouldn't really
> matter, should it? Or does this low end chain simply suck?
>
> This is one of those times I wished I had a Miche system and could
> just flip the dang thing over.

1/2 x 3/16 chain is commonly used on 1/2 x 1/8 standard cogs. That's not
specifically the problem.
If you look at the cog face-on, especially if you have a new cog next to
it, extreme wear should be visible as an asymmetric tooth profile, a
wave form.
Then there are tight links, bent chainring teeth, etc.
Did you oil the new chain? That quiets them too.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[David L. Johnson]

landotter wrote:
> Maybe 3K on this drivetrain, fixed gear. Measured chain yesterday,
> there was 1/16" of stretch, so I grabbed an SRAM PC-1 at the LBS and
> swapped it out this morning. There is no tension and no slack--dialed
> in perfectly, but it's LOUD when it meshes with the cog.
>
> Could it be that I wore out the cog in 3K??

Doesn't seem likely, but I was having noise problems with one sprocket
on my road bike. I looked at it, and looked at my spare, and could not
see any significant difference. But I put the new one on, anyway, and
it was a huge improvement.

Also, the SS chain I took off
> looks to be a 3/16" model and the PC-1 is a 1/4"

You mean 3/32" and 1/8" (the PC-1 is a 1/8").

--but shouldn't really
> matter, should it? Or does this low end chain simply suck?

PC-1 is a pretty good chain. Most 1/8" chains are junk, unless you pay
for Wipperman or some such. But the PC-1 is good quality.

--

David L. Johnson

A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems.
-- Paul Erdos

[Duncan]

"landotter" <landotter@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189618655.983680.30240@y42g2000hsy.googlegro ups.com...
> Maybe 3K on this drivetrain, fixed gear. Measured chain yesterday,
> there was 1/16" of stretch, so I grabbed an SRAM PC-1 at the LBS and
> swapped it out this morning. There is no tension and no slack--dialed
> in perfectly, but it's LOUD when it meshes with the cog.
>
> Could it be that I wore out the cog in 3K?? It doesn't look worn short
> of the plating being chipped a little. Also, the SS chain I took off
> looks to be a 3/16" model and the PC-1 is a 1/4"--but shouldn't really
> matter, should it? Or does this low end chain simply suck?

PC-1 chains are terrible. But as you've already found out that noise goes
away pretty quickly. I've had it on my bike and heard it on other bikes.
My last PC-1 lasted barely 5 weeks (1000km?) before it was out of spec even
for my steel chainring. It was ridden in pretty muddy conditions but the
subsequent KMC 'kool' 1/8th chain for a little more cash has lasted twice as
long in similair conditions.
Previous PC-1 chains on a 3/32 sprocket were notorious for coming off .
Racing fixed off road does have a tendency to throw chains but the PC-1s
would come off with only the slightest amount of slack. Losing a chain on a
fixie can be very messy...

[David L. Johnson]

landotter wrote:
>> This is one of those times I wished I had a Miche system and could
>> just flip the dang thing over.
>
> D'oh! Can't flip it over, but I can certainly pedal it in reverse, and
> it's equally noisy, thus unlikely to be the cog. I tried relubing with
> WL (hey, only use it on cheap SS chains) and it's still sounds like
> steam-punk animatronics. I guess I'll just have to get another nickel
> plated KMC--cheap and decent.
>
Did you check the chainline? 1/8" chains are fussier about chainline
than 3/32" chains (which are intended for multi-gear use, so need to
deal with bad chainlines). If it is hugging one side of the chainring,
maybe you need to adjust the chainline.

--

David L. Johnson

A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems.
-- Paul Erdos

[landotter]

On Sep 12, 1:36 pm, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
<pe...@vecchios.com> wrote:
> landotter wrote:
> > Maybe 3K on this drivetrain, fixed gear. Measured chain yesterday,
> > there was 1/16" of stretch, so I grabbed an SRAM PC-1 at the LBS and
> > swapped it out this morning. There is no tension and no slack--dialed
> > in perfectly, but it's LOUD when it meshes with the cog.
>
> > Could it be that I wore out the cog in 3K?? It doesn't look worn short
> > of the plating being chipped a little. Also, the SS chain I took off
> > looks to be a 3/16" model and the PC-1 is a 1/4"--but shouldn't really
> > matter, should it? Or does this low end chain simply suck?
>
> > This is one of those times I wished I had a Miche system and could
> > just flip the dang thing over.
>
> All fixie systems have a tight, then loose section. None provide the
> same chain tension thruout the pedal cycle. I'm suspecting that the
> 'tight' section is a wee bit too tight, but I can't hear it. PLUS
> using an 1/8 inch chain on a 3/32 cog CAN make for some noise as the
> chain moves left/right. I would try a 3/32 chain and make sure the
> tight section isn't too tight.

Yeah, I'm betting it's just the chain width causing slop. The chain is
tensioned on the money, I'm stickler. I tried it a bit slacker than
I'm comfortable with and it made the same noise. Funny, I didn't even
think about checking to see if it was a narrow system.

I'll just pick up a narrow chain next time this one looks filthy. I've
had great luck with nickel KMC bmx chains, despite what people say
about them.

[landotter]

On Sep 12, 3:37 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

> Then there are tight links, bent chainring teeth, etc.
> Did you oil the new chain? That quiets them too.
> --

All the teeth are fine, short of some nickel plate chipped off here or
there. I went ahead and double WL-'ed it, as I like to keep this guy
clean and SS chains are cheap. Quieted a bit. Still pretty annoying. I
usually run those cheapo KMCs and simply wipe out the "cosmoline" from
the outer plates with solvent, then ride for a couple months till it
gets noisy, then a degrease and a WL'ing. (I save the oil for
derailleur bikes ;-))

Thanks, Andrew, I'll just live with it till I can scrounge for a more
appropriate $10 chain. :-P

[A Muzi]

landotter wrote:
-chain noise-

> A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> Then there are tight links, bent chainring teeth, etc.
>> Did you oil the new chain? That quiets them too.

landotter wrote:
> All the teeth are fine, short of some nickel plate chipped off here or
> there. I went ahead and double WL-'ed it, as I like to keep this guy
> clean and SS chains are cheap. Quieted a bit. Still pretty annoying. I
> usually run those cheapo KMCs and simply wipe out the "cosmoline" from
> the outer plates with solvent, then ride for a couple months till it
> gets noisy, then a degrease and a WL'ing. (I save the oil for
> derailleur bikes ;-))
> Thanks, Andrew, I'll just live with it till I can scrounge for a more
> appropriate $10 chain. :-P

We're big on KMC 1/8 chain here, no complaints.
With Nickel, Gold, Blue, Red, Pink, Purple, White, Silver-Black and Navy
Grey, today's trendy fixie riders have elevated chain to a fashion
accessory. Waiting list for new Yellow , btw!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[landotter]

On Sep 12, 4:24 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> landotter wrote:
>
> -chain noise-
>
> > A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >> Then there are tight links, bent chainring teeth, etc.
> >> Did you oil the new chain? That quiets them too.
> landotter wrote:
> > All the teeth are fine, short of some nickel plate chipped off here or
> > there. I went ahead and double WL-'ed it, as I like to keep this guy
> > clean and SS chains are cheap. Quieted a bit. Still pretty annoying. I
> > usually run those cheapo KMCs and simply wipe out the "cosmoline" from
> > the outer plates with solvent, then ride for a couple months till it
> > gets noisy, then a degrease and a WL'ing. (I save the oil for
> > derailleur bikes ;-))
> > Thanks, Andrew, I'll just live with it till I can scrounge for a more
> > appropriate $10 chain. :-P
>
> We're big on KMC 1/8 chain here, no complaints.
> With Nickel, Gold, Blue, Red, Pink, Purple, White, Silver-Black and Navy
> Grey, today's trendy fixie riders have elevated chain to a fashion
> accessory. Waiting list for new Yellow , btw!

With two brakes, a stem raiser, and full spandex kit still on after my
20 miler--I'm about as far from hip as ya can get. But I probably will
stop by the BMX shop and get the nickel one. They've done me right
forever. I do like the idea of mixed colors as well, as those chains
play nice with a Rivoli.

BTW, the chain "bedded" in on my ride, a lovely mix of pavement and
some wannabe crosser fire road action. I gotta snug it up now, but
it's quiet enough. It's gonna need a good full turn on the tugnuts.
Who'da thunk it?

[David L. Johnson]

A Muzi wrote:

> We're big on KMC 1/8 chain here, no complaints.
> With Nickel, Gold, Blue, Red, Pink, Purple, White, Silver-Black and Navy
> Grey, today's trendy fixie riders have elevated chain to a fashion
> accessory. Waiting list for new Yellow , btw!

There was "chain fashion" way back in the day, too. Remember the Regina
oro? Gold was a lot cooler than plain old silver.

--

David L. Johnson

A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems.
-- Paul Erdos

[David L. Johnson]

landotter wrote:

> some wannabe crosser fire road action. I gotta snug it up now, but
> it's quiet enough. It's gonna need a good full turn on the tugnuts.
> Who'da thunk it?

I never have seen the point of tugnuts. Don't they get in the way more
than anything else?

--

David L. Johnson

A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems.
-- Paul Erdos

[landotter]

On Sep 12, 8:06 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
wrote:
> landotter wrote:
> > Maybe 3K on this drivetrain, fixed gear. Measured chain yesterday,
> > there was 1/16" of stretch, so I grabbed an SRAM PC-1 at the LBS and
> > swapped it out this morning. There is no tension and no slack--dialed
> > in perfectly, but it's LOUD when it meshes with the cog.
>
> > Could it be that I wore out the cog in 3K??
>
> Doesn't seem likely, but I was having noise problems with one sprocket
> on my road bike. I looked at it, and looked at my spare, and could not
> see any significant difference. But I put the new one on, anyway, and
> it was a huge improvement.
>

Well, I know to expect a little noise with this unbranded cog, and
certainly throwing a DA cog on there would be smart. It works well
enough for me not to want to want to mess with removing a cog after 3K
miles that included some brutal sprints and climbs. I'm gonna have to
deal with it some day, just not now. You can tell that the steel has
compressed ever so slightly at the "pull" surface, but not enough to
call it quits. Enough to give a twee bit of buzz is all.


> Also, the SS chain I took off
>
> > looks to be a 3/16" model and the PC-1 is a 1/4"
>
> You mean 3/32" and 1/8" (the PC-1 is a 1/8").

****ing fractions. I'm mainly metric, cept for pornography.

>
> --but shouldn't really
>
> > matter, should it? Or does this low end chain simply suck?
>
> PC-1 is a pretty good chain. Most 1/8" chains are junk, unless you pay
> for Wipperman or some such. But the PC-1 is good quality.

Well it is number one!

TBH, the nicest and smoothest SS chains I've run are 8spd KMC "tandem"
chains I got from Nashbar to pad an order. Wipe the outside with a bit
of solvent, and the damn things are quiet for hundreds of miles.

[landotter]

On Sep 12, 8:08 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
wrote:
> landotter wrote:
> >> This is one of those times I wished I had a Miche system and could
> >> just flip the dang thing over.
>
> > D'oh! Can't flip it over, but I can certainly pedal it in reverse, and
> > it's equally noisy, thus unlikely to be the cog. I tried relubing with
> > WL (hey, only use it on cheap SS chains) and it's still sounds like
> > steam-punk animatronics. I guess I'll just have to get another nickel
> > plated KMC--cheap and decent.
>
> Did you check the chainline? 1/8" chains are fussier about chainline
> than 3/32" chains (which are intended for multi-gear use, so need to
> deal with bad chainlines). If it is hugging one side of the chainring,
> maybe you n
eed to adjust the chainline.
>
Chainline is perfect, everything is sorted, back to your cubicles,
folks. It was simply Srams' cheapest chain needing a flogging.

[landotter]

On Sep 12, 8:12 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
wrote:
> landotter wrote:
> > some wannabe crosser fire road action. I gotta snug it up now, but
> > it's quiet enough. It's gonna need a good full turn on the tugnuts.
> > Who'da thunk it?
>
> I never have seen the point of tugnuts.

Then you've never used them to quickly dial in your tension perfectly.
I love 'em.

> Don't they get in the way more
> than anything else?

Er, no.

[A Muzi]

landotter wrote:
> ****ing fractions. I'm mainly metric, cept for pornography.

Quote (or quip) Of The Day!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[landotter]

On Sep 12, 10:22 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> landotter wrote:
> > ****ing fractions. I'm mainly metric, cept for pornography.
>
> Quote (or quip) Of The Day!

;-)

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