Switchbike - The best of both worlds

[Grolsch]

The switchbike was shown at the Holland Innovation show, although it's
not currently in production. By flipping a switch on the handle, it
converts quickly from a regular city bike into a recumbent bicycle.
Ron de Jong, the designer is still looking for a company to take his
bike into production. Wow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H39NiWbeOw

[A Muzi]

> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>> What's the point?
>> "Just because something can be done doesn't mean it
>> should be done." - W. H. "Bill" Bell

DougC wrote:
> One problem that recumbents can have for urban users is that many urban
> buses with bike racks only allow them for use with upright bikes that
> have conventional-length wheelbases.
> Also it can be difficult to carry recumbents up and down narrow
> stairwells, due to their longer overall lengths.
> I think the seat base might be odd for upright riding, but then, if you
> didn't use it that way much it might be useful.
> The whole point of recumbents is greater comfort, the importance of this
> matter being proportional to the distance of the ride, however--and most
> Euro city-bike users tend not to ride real far at any one trip.
> Also, .nl bikes tend to cost a fortune, a basic city bike easily costs
> $500-$700 USD. You might end up paying a lot more for a bike that is
> (comparatively) neither a very good recumbent or a very good city bike.

You're riding around in traffic with your head just below bumper height
and you see bus racks as the problem??
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Chalo]

DougC wrote:
>
> Also I don't live in an urban area, and hope I /never/ do.
>
> What city people call "urban culture" is what country people scrape off
> their boots after wandering in the cow pasture.

You know, that explains a lot. Most inscrutable, less-than-rational
religious movements seem to get much improved traction in the
hinterlands. And the reality-based community seems to coalesce around
metropolitan areas.

The recumbent faithful appear to be almost as resistant to things that
should be nakedly obvious as Holy Rollers are.

Chalo

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Oct 15, 9:48 pm, "Grolsch" <nos...@telus.net> wrote:
> The switchbike was shown at the Holland Innovation show, although it's
> not currently in production. By flipping a switch on the handle, it
> converts quickly from a regular city bike into a recumbent bicycle.
> Ron de Jong, the designer is still looking for a company to take his
> bike into production. Wow.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H39NiWbeOw


What's the point?

"Just because something can be done doesn't mean it
should be done." - W. H. "Bill" Bell

[Chalo]

Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
> Grolsch wrote:
> >
> > The switchbike was shown at the Holland Innovation show, although it's
> > not currently in production. By flipping a switch on the handle, it
> > converts quickly from a regular city bike into a recumbent bicycle.
> > Ron de Jong, the designer is still looking for a company to take his
> > bike into production. Wow.
> >
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H39NiWbeOw
>
> What's the point?

Don't you see? It's a floor wax AND a dessert topping!

My Seattle friend Joe Kochanowski made a proudly bisexual machine
along those general lines, but without any process necessary to
convert from one orientation to the other. He just used whichever
suited him and the conditions.

http://www.outsideconnection.com/gallant/hpv/joe/2position_2.mpg

That Dutch bike thinks it can pass for straight, but it can't.
Someone should tell it.

Chalo

[Bob]

On Oct 15, 9:48 pm, "Grolsch" <nos...@telus.net> wrote:
> The switchbike was shown at the Holland Innovation show, although it's
> not currently in production. By flipping a switch on the handle, it
> converts quickly from a regular city bike into a recumbent bicycle.
> Ron de Jong, the designer is still looking for a company to take his
> bike into production. Wow.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H39NiWbeOw

It's an interesting novelty but I'm not sure what niche market the
designer thinks it will find. City bike riders aren't going to pay
what I'd guess would be the substantial added cost for the
"convertibility" and I doubt 'bent riders will beat a path to his door
for what looks like could be the world's heaviest recumbent. The drive
train alone looks like it could top 20 pounds. Then again, "auto
shift" bikes sold. Maybe not well but they *did* sell.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

[Tom Sherman]

Grolsch wrote:
> The switchbike was shown at the Holland Innovation show, although it's
> not currently in production. By flipping a switch on the handle, it
> converts quickly from a regular city bike into a recumbent bicycle.
> Ron de Jong, the designer is still looking for a company to take his
> bike into production. Wow.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H39NiWbeOw

Others have been there, done that, years ago:
<http://www.outsideconnection.com/gallant/hpv/joe/>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!

[Tosspot]

Grolsch wrote:
> The switchbike was shown at the Holland Innovation show, although it's
> not currently in production. By flipping a switch on the handle, it
> converts quickly from a regular city bike into a recumbent bicycle.
> Ron de Jong, the designer is still looking for a company to take his
> bike into production. Wow.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H39NiWbeOw

Christ ona bike, I can see me coming out of the pub on that going "Look
guys!", <click> <SPLAT!>

[JeffWills]

On Oct 15, 6:56 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> On Oct 15, 9:48 pm, "Grolsch" <nos...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > The switchbike was shown at the Holland Innovation show, although it's
> > not currently in production. By flipping a switch on the handle, it
> > converts quickly from a regular city bike into a recumbent bicycle.
> > Ron de Jong, the designer is still looking for a company to take his
> > bike into production. Wow.
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H39NiWbeOw
>
> What's the point?
>

Attracting cool chicks, man!

Jeff

[landotter]

On Oct 15, 9:56 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> On Oct 15, 9:48 pm, "Grolsch" <nos...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > The switchbike was shown at the Holland Innovation show, although it's
> > not currently in production. By flipping a switch on the handle, it
> > converts quickly from a regular city bike into a recumbent bicycle.
> > Ron de Jong, the designer is still looking for a company to take his
> > bike into production. Wow.
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H39NiWbeOw
>
> What's the point?
>

Recumbent for cruising out of town on country lanes amongst the
tulips, and upright for better confidence when riding in from ****hole
airport.

[Chalo]

Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
> Grolsch wrote:
> >
> > The switchbike was shown at the Holland Innovation show, although it's
> > not currently in production. By flipping a switch on the handle, it
> > converts quickly from a regular city bike into a recumbent bicycle.
> > Ron de Jong, the designer is still looking for a company to take his
> > bike into production. Wow.
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H39NiWbeOw
>
> What's the point?

Don't you see? It's a floor wax AND a dessert topping!

My Seattle friend Joe Kochanowski made a proudly bisexual machine
along those general lines, but without any process necessary to
convert from one orientation to the other. He just used whichever
suited him and the conditions.

http://www.outsideconnection.com/gallant/hpv/joe/2position_2.mpg

That Dutch bike thinks it can pass for straight, but it can't.
Someone should tell it.

Chalo


Chalo

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Oct 16, 12:44 am, JeffWills <jwi...@pacifier.com> wrote:
> On Oct 15, 6:56 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 15, 9:48 pm, "Grolsch" <nos...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > > The switchbike was shown at the Holland Innovation show, although it's
> > > not currently in production. By flipping a switch on the handle, it
> > > converts quickly from a regular city bike into a recumbent bicycle.
> > > Ron de Jong, the designer is still looking for a company to take his
> > > bike into production. Wow.
>
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H39NiWbeOw
>
> > What's the point?
>
> Attracting cool chicks, man!
>
> Jeff

Start out upright and wind up recumbent?

[datakoll]

> - DO NOT Show quoted text -

big improvement in that clip if a large safe fell from the ceiling,
crushing the inventor

[Ed Pirrero]

On Oct 16, 3:32 am, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> On Oct 16, 12:44 am, JeffWills <jwi...@pacifier.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 15, 6:56 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > On Oct 15, 9:48 pm, "Grolsch" <nos...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > > > The switchbike was shown at the Holland Innovation show, although it's
> > > > not currently in production. By flipping a switch on the handle, it
> > > > converts quickly from a regular city bike into a recumbent bicycle.
> > > > Ron de Jong, the designer is still looking for a company to take his
> > > > bike into production. Wow.
>
> > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H39NiWbeOw
>
> > > What's the point?
>
> > Attracting cool chicks, man!
>
> > Jeff
>
> Start out upright and wind up recumbent?- Hide quoted text -
>

You can do that without a bicycle.

Tequila.

E.P.

[datakoll]

On Oct 16, 7:47 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > - DO NOT Show quoted text -
>
> big improvement in that clip if a large safe fell from the ceiling,
> crushing the inventor

sorry. i was out roding my naybor's nomad.
here's a relevant clip

http://www.bilstein.com

JB, where are Bils coming from?

[Chalo]

datakoll wrote:
>
> big improvement in that clip if a large safe fell from the ceiling,
> crushing the inventor

This looks like a job for Life Size Mousetrap!

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=2030828940

Chalo

[Tom Sherman]

datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
>> - DO NOT Show quoted text -
>
> big improvement in that clip if a large safe fell from the ceiling,
> crushing the inventor
>
no no no! It is supposed to be a weight that is clearly marked "16 Tons".

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!

[datakoll]

On Oct 16, 8:00 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Oct 16, 7:47 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > - DO NOT Show quoted text -



http://news.yahoo.com/comics/arloandjanis;_ylt=Auv2DM_k3Ybeklu9sfadcOgDwLAF

http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2007/10/16/

[datakoll]

On Oct 16, 9:12 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Oct 16, 8:00 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 16, 7:47 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > - DO NOT Show quoted text -


http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2007/10/16/world/16iran.ms.html

[A Muzi]

> On Oct 16, 9:12 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Oct 16, 8:00 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On Oct 16, 7:47 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> - DO NOT Show quoted text -

datakoll wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2007/10/16/world/16iran.ms.html

Photo shows "The Best of the One-Worlders" which may be different.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Oct 16, 9:22 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 15, 9:56 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 15, 9:48 pm, "Grolsch" <nos...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > > The switchbike was shown at the Holland Innovation show, although it's
> > > not currently in production. By flipping a switch on the handle, it
> > > converts quickly from a regular city bike into a recumbent bicycle.
> > > Ron de Jong, the designer is still looking for a company to take his
> > > bike into production. Wow.
>
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H39NiWbeOw
>
> > What's the point?
>
> Recumbent for cruising out of town on country lanes amongst the
> tulips, and upright for better confidence when riding in from ****hole
> airport.

Sure, but wouldn't you rather have one competent, simple bike good for
both tasks over a complex, gimmicky POS?

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <1192544545.259429.183520@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.c om>,
landotter <landotter@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Oct 15, 9:56 pm, Ozark Bicycle
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 15, 9:48 pm, "Grolsch" <nos...@telus.net> wrote:
> >
> > > The switchbike was shown at the Holland Innovation show, although it's
> > > not currently in production. By flipping a switch on the handle, it
> > > converts quickly from a regular city bike into a recumbent bicycle.
> > > Ron de Jong, the designer is still looking for a company to take his
> > > bike into production. Wow.
> >
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H39NiWbeOw
> >
> > What's the point?
> >
>
> Recumbent for cruising out of town on country lanes amongst the
> tulips, and upright for better confidence when riding in from ****hole
> airport.

Hey, if you know of an airport in the world that has a better art
gallery than Schipol's, I invite you to fly there instead.

I mean, seriously. 7 years ago, I flew from lovely Schipol to the crappy
purgatory that was the old Athens International airport.

Then, this August, I took the same routing, only now it was into the
brand new Athens "El Vez" airport.

Schipol still makes it look like a dump. And also, the Netherlands being
an English-speaking country, it's the easiest airport in Europe to land
in.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

[Leo Lichtman]

It's ingenious and "gimicky." I would love to try one, just as a matter of
interest, but...
1.) It's bound to be heavy, just as folding bikes have to be heavy to cope
with the moving joints.
2.) The fork goes through a large change in angle in converting
upright/recumbent. What does this do to the handling? Increasing the
wheelbase and trail both act to decrease maneuverability.
3.) My guess is that the owner would find one configuration more useful
than the other, and then stop switching. So, wouldn't it be better to just
own the appropriate bike?

Did I actually see the rider go from upright to recumbent while actually
riding? Wow!

[landotter]

On Oct 16, 10:01 am, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> On Oct 16, 9:22 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 15, 9:56 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > On Oct 15, 9:48 pm, "Grolsch" <nos...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > > > The switchbike was shown at the Holland Innovation show, although it's
> > > > not currently in production. By flipping a switch on the handle, it
> > > > converts quickly from a regular city bike into a recumbent bicycle.
> > > > Ron de Jong, the designer is still looking for a company to take his
> > > > bike into production. Wow.
>
> > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H39NiWbeOw
>
> > > What's the point?
>
> > Recumbent for cruising out of town on country lanes amongst the
> > tulips, and upright for better confidence when riding in from ****hole
> > airport.
>
> Sure, but wouldn't you rather have one competent, simple bike good for
> both tasks over a complex, gimmicky POS?

You don't get the ladies with a putty colored Cavalier.

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Oct 16, 12:12 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 16, 10:01 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 16, 9:22 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 15, 9:56 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > On Oct 15, 9:48 pm, "Grolsch" <nos...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > The switchbike was shown at the Holland Innovation show, although it's
> > > > > not currently in production. By flipping a switch on the handle, it
> > > > > converts quickly from a regular city bike into a recumbent bicycle.
> > > > > Ron de Jong, the designer is still looking for a company to take his
> > > > > bike into production. Wow.
>
> > > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H39NiWbeOw
>
> > > > What's the point?
>
> > > Recumbent for cruising out of town on country lanes amongst the
> > > tulips, and upright for better confidence when riding in from ****hole
> > > airport.
>
> > Sure, but wouldn't you rather have one competent, simple bike good for
> > both tasks over a complex, gimmicky POS?
>
> You don't get the ladies with a putty colored Cavalier.

Hey! The color of your cavilier is a personal matter! (some coppertone
might help, though ;-> )

[datakoll]

arrhg snort harheheheh

yeah I thought maybe AA in Holland but the mousetrap? serious ludes?
where are they? deMoine?
maybe the inventor has hemrhoids or shingles.

[DennisTheBald]

I can understand why one would want to switch their bike to a
recumbent, I'm a little unclear on why they would ever switch back,
tho.

[Tom Sherman]

DennisTheBald wrote:
> I can understand why one would want to switch their bike to a
> recumbent, I'm a little unclear on why they would ever switch back,
> tho.

If you want to pass quietly by without being noticed, a tatty upright is
excellent. A recumbent is not, particularly a lowracer or tadpole trike.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Oct 16, 6:23 pm, Ed Pirrero <gcmschem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 16, 3:32 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 16, 12:44 am, JeffWills <jwi...@pacifier.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 15, 6:56 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > On Oct 15, 9:48 pm, "Grolsch" <nos...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > The switchbike was shown at the Holland Innovation show, although it's
> > > > > not currently in production. By flipping a switch on the handle, it
> > > > > converts quickly from a regular city bike into a recumbent bicycle.
> > > > > Ron de Jong, the designer is still looking for a company to take his
> > > > > bike into production. Wow.
>
> > > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H39NiWbeOw
>
> > > > What's the point?
>
> > > Attracting cool chicks, man!
>
> > > Jeff
>
> > Start out upright and wind up recumbent?- Hide quoted text -
>
> You can do that without a bicycle.
>
> Tequila.

9-to-1* Martinis work, too.

*9 parts Beefeater, 1 part Noilly Prat

[datakoll]

http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2007/10/17/

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <1192620377.840622.32850@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.co m>,
datakoll <datakoll@yahoo.com> wrote:

> http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2007/10/17/

I need a kickstand for my unicycle.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

[datakoll]

On Oct 17, 4:37 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > On Oct 16, 9:12 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Oct 16, 8:00 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> On Oct 16, 7:47 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>>> - DO NOT Show quoted text -
> datakoll wrote:
> >http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2007/10/16/world/16iran.ms.html
>
> Photo shows "The Best of the One-Worlders" which may be different.
> --
> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

the envelope of chumminess may have spawned the switchback, as calvin
and Hobbes ( 'In the state of nature profit is the measure of right')
cawments. Snot long before we're all carrying cardboard fairings,
again, best we should get to it.
$110 barrel is around the corner and we're still pissing the stuff
into the wind while the ice melts

[Chalo]

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>
> datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2007/10/17/
>
> I need a kickstand for my unicycle.

How about training wheels?

http://www.digitaltutors.com/uploads/gallery/data/513/medium/380Unicycle.gif

Chalo

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <1192681056.177965.282910@i38g2000prf.googlegroups. com>,
Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> >
> > datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2007/10/17/
> >
> > I need a kickstand for my unicycle.
>
> How about training wheels?
>
> http://www.digitaltutors.com/uploads/gallery/data/513/medium/380Unicycle.gif
>
> Chalo

Ah...

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

[DougC]

Chalo wrote:
>
> You know, that explains a lot. Most inscrutable, less-than-rational
> religious movements seem to get much improved traction in the
> hinterlands.

You mean like the hinterlands of the Holy See or Mecca?

And the reality-based community seems to coalesce around
> metropolitan areas.

-Yea--also, the street-gang communities, the pollution communities and
the overcrowding communities. I guess it's not the /city/ I dislike,
it's just all the people who live there.

>
> The recumbent faithful appear to be almost as resistant to things that
> should be nakedly obvious as Holy Rollers are.
>
> Chalo
>

If the main criteria that you judge a bicycle is its ability to "see
over cars", yours is truly a sad riding environment....
~

[Tom Sherman]

Chalo Colina wrote:
> DougC wrote:
>> Also I don't live in an urban area, and hope I /never/ do.
>>
>> What city people call "urban culture" is what country people scrape off
>> their boots after wandering in the cow pasture.
>
> You know, that explains a lot. Most inscrutable, less-than-rational
> religious movements seem to get much improved traction in the
> hinterlands. And the reality-based community seems to coalesce around
> metropolitan areas.

Haven't spent much time in the suburbs, have you? Full of people born on
second base that think they hit a double, that make rural yokels seem
enlightened.

> The recumbent faithful appear to be almost as resistant to things that
> should be nakedly obvious as Holy Rollers are.

Greater speed and comfort - how is that bad?

Not all of us want to ride like a juvenile delinquent/bicycle messenger.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!

[datakoll]

- show irrelevant text -

http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2007/10/18/

[Tom Sherman]

Usenet poster Bob Hunt wrote:
> On Oct 15, 9:48 pm, "Grolsch" <nos...@telus.net> wrote:
>> The switchbike was shown at the Holland Innovation show, although it's
>> not currently in production. By flipping a switch on the handle, it
>> converts quickly from a regular city bike into a recumbent bicycle.
>> Ron de Jong, the designer is still looking for a company to take his
>> bike into production. Wow.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H39NiWbeOw
>
> It's an interesting novelty but I'm not sure what niche market the
> designer thinks it will find. City bike riders aren't going to pay
> what I'd guess would be the substantial added cost for the
> "convertibility" and I doubt 'bent riders will beat a path to his door
> for what looks like could be the world's heaviest recumbent.

Not to mention that anything narrow enough to work as an upright saddle
is going to make a poor recumbent seat base.

Neither fish, not fowl, indeed.

> The drive
> train alone looks like it could top 20 pounds. Then again, "auto
> shift" bikes sold. Maybe not well but they *did* sell.

Will not people buy almost anything if it is advertised on late night
"infomercials"?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!