Flat bar conversion questions [Archive]

Mike Blake

12-31-1969, 08:00 PM

I have a Specialize Allez Sport (2002 vintage I think that I would like to
convert from drop bars to a flat bar configuration. Our riding is all
casual bike path or neighborhood riding and then only 5 to 10 miles a day.

I would appreciate suggestions on cost effective shifting and brake controls
for the bike's existing Tiagra rim brakes, Tiagra 3 ring front derauiller
and 105 9 speed rear derauiller. The shifters do not have to be indexed...
I suspect that bar end shifters would be appropriate but I am not sure.

Tools and skills should not be a problem nor should time as I am retired.
It is also to be a fun project and one which will get the Allez back into
action having been all but replaced with a Giant Suede Coasting cruiser that
both my wife and I ride daily. She did not ride at all prior to getting her
Shimano Coasting equipped Suede.

I digress :) Components and good places to purchase them are both welcome.
Responses from vendors would be most welcome as a handful of you seem to
provide many of the valuable responses on RBT

Mike - K9JRI

landotter

01-03-1970, 05:38 PM

Steve Gravrock

01-03-1970, 05:38 PM

On 2007-10-21, Mike Blake <k9jri@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have a Specialize Allez Sport (2002 vintage I think that I would like to
> convert from drop bars to a flat bar configuration. Our riding is all
> casual bike path or neighborhood riding and then only 5 to 10 miles a day.
>
> I would appreciate suggestions on cost effective shifting and brake controls
> for the bike's existing Tiagra rim brakes, Tiagra 3 ring front derauiller
> and 105 9 speed rear derauiller. The shifters do not have to be indexed...
> I suspect that bar end shifters would be appropriate but I am not sure.

Bear in mind that flat bars are wider than drop bars to begin with.
Adding bar end shifters will make them *really* wide, unless you turn
them into thumb shifters with a set of Paul Thumbies.

Road and mountain bike rear derailers use the same cable pull, so
indexed rear shifting is easy. Just get any Shimano compatible 9 speed
shifter. In front, the cable pull is different so if you want indexed
shifting you'll need one of these:
<http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=964>

Alternately, just get an old set of thumbshifters and run them in
friction mode. As for brake levers, anything intended for use with
cantilevers will work with your brakes. Levers for V-brakes won't.

Ozark Bicycle

01-03-1970, 05:38 PM

On Oct 21, 6:27 pm, "Mike Blake" <k9...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have a Specialize Allez Sport (2002 vintage I think that I would like to
> convert from drop bars to a flat bar configuration. Our riding is all
> casual bike path or neighborhood riding and then only 5 to 10 miles a day.
>
> I would appreciate suggestions on cost effective shifting and brake controls
> for the bike's existing Tiagra rim brakes, Tiagra 3 ring front derauiller
> and 105 9 speed rear derauiller. The shifters do not have to be indexed...
> I suspect that bar end shifters would be appropriate but I am not sure.
>
> Tools and skills should not be a problem nor should time as I am retired.
> It is also to be a fun project and one which will get the Allez back into
> action having been all but replaced with a Giant Suede Coasting cruiser that
> both my wife and I ride daily. She did not ride at all prior to getting her
> Shimano Coasting equipped Suede.
>
> I digress :) Components and good places to purchase them are both welcome.
> Responses from vendors would be most welcome as a handful of you seem to
> provide many of the valuable responses on RBT
>
> Mike - K9JRI

What are trying to accomplish? Are the drop bars too low or the reach
too far (or both) to be comfy? If so, you *might* be able to find a
solution by simply using a different stem, one that allows the drop
bars to be higher and/or closer. Do you just find the flat bars to be
more comfy for those short rides? If so, than moving to a flat bar
might be the better, albeit most expensive, solution.

Michael Press

01-03-1970, 05:38 PM

In article
<igRSi.6195$y21.4096@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net>,
"Mike Blake" <k9jri@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I have a Specialize Allez Sport (2002 vintage I think that I would like to
> convert from drop bars to a flat bar configuration. Our riding is all
> casual bike path or neighborhood riding and then only 5 to 10 miles a day.

It will not be worth the trouble. Get advice on making
the drop bars work for you. What difficulties do you
encounter with the current configuration. Pain or
numbness in the hands? Pain in the lower back? Pain in
the perineum? Pain in the neck. Can you raise the
bars? Do you feel too stretched out, or scrunched up?
For short and long rides a drop bar configuration can
be made ideal. There are more hand and body positions
possible with drop bars than any other configuration.
Flat bars do not provide a bar section where the bar is
parallel to the bicycle axis. Grabbing transverse bars
is typically harder on the wrists than a parallel bar.

Flat bars are fine for strenuous mountain bicycling,
less good for casual riding. If you really must change
away from drop bars, get north road bars.

> I would appreciate suggestions on cost effective shifting and brake controls
> for the bike's existing Tiagra rim brakes, Tiagra 3 ring front derauiller
> and 105 9 speed rear derauiller. The shifters do not have to be indexed...
> I suspect that bar end shifters would be appropriate but I am not sure.
>
> Tools and skills should not be a problem nor should time as I am retired.
> It is also to be a fun project and one which will get the Allez back into
> action having been all but replaced with a Giant Suede Coasting cruiser that
> both my wife and I ride daily. She did not ride at all prior to getting her
> Shimano Coasting equipped Suede.
>
> I digress :) Components and good places to purchase them are both welcome.
> Responses from vendors would be most welcome as a handful of you seem to
> provide many of the valuable responses on RBT
>
> Mike - K9JRI

--
Michael Press

joseph.santaniello@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 05:38 PM

On Oct 22, 1:27 am, "Mike Blake" <k9...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have a Specialize Allez Sport (2002 vintage I think that I would like to
> convert from drop bars to a flat bar configuration. Our riding is all
> casual bike path or neighborhood riding and then only 5 to 10 miles a day.
>
> I would appreciate suggestions on cost effective shifting and brake controls
> for the bike's existing Tiagra rim brakes, Tiagra 3 ring front derauiller
> and 105 9 speed rear derauiller. The shifters do not have to be indexed...
> I suspect that bar end shifters would be appropriate but I am not sure.
>
> Tools and skills should not be a problem nor should time as I am retired.
> It is also to be a fun project and one which will get the Allez back into
> action having been all but replaced with a Giant Suede Coasting cruiser that
> both my wife and I ride daily. She did not ride at all prior to getting her
> Shimano Coasting equipped Suede.
>
> I digress :) Components and good places to purchase them are both welcome.
> Responses from vendors would be most welcome as a handful of you seem to
> provide many of the valuable responses on RBT
>
> Mike - K9JRI

Friction and 9-speed will not be a very satisying experience. You
pretty much need indexed shifting. Something like these would be good:

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?sku=21384

And for bars and stem, anything should work fine. Make sure you think
about how your position will end up!

Have fun.

Joseph

dustoyevsky@mac.com

01-03-1970, 05:38 PM

On Oct 21, 6:27 pm, "Mike Blake" <k9...@hotmail.com> wrote:

(Snipped):

> I have a Specialize Allez Sport (2002 vintage I think

Tiagra rim brakes, Tiagra 3 ring front derauiller
> and 105 9 speed rear derauiller.

> I digress :) Components and good places to purchase them are both welcome.
> Responses from vendors would be most welcome as a handful of you seem to
> provide many of the valuable responses on RBT

The bike I'd like to convert to flat bar is a mid-eighties Japanese
("Zebra" branded, from South Austin Bikes) (Chalo troll... testing
testing 123 pffft pftttt 12 is this thing on?) 6-sp road bike. Works
fine as is but not for the intended rider.

Suntour 5000 derailleurs. Shortie stem that would be fine if there's a
"flat" bar to fit.

For this application, twister shifters would be desired, as they
(Gripshift 7sp) have been found to be satisfactory on a Specialized
Expedition "comfort" (ha ha) bike, in combination with the long-style
brake levers that bike came with.

The object is a stable hand position and leverage at the brake lever
for a rider with hand difficulties that make drop-bar riding dodgy--
even with a long stem raised up, and brakes "tuned" for max power (new
red pads and close adjustment). Changing hand postions is difficult,
and the "vertical" hand orientation around a drop-bar brake lever and
handle is not good for braking power and hold-on strength compared to
the thumb wrap-around and horizontal hand position with flat bars (I'm
guessing this also an issue with the OP).

Thumb shifters? Probably not.

I got a short distance with this at the FLBS but there seemed to be a
similar bias against this conversion as seen here. "Bring it in", what
they seemed to be saying "We really don't know how to do this but we
might figure it out". More than I want to spend <g>.

IOW, the case for drop bars is well understood but in this
application, moot.

(stating the obvious) I'd like to keep the wheels and derailleurs,
change the handlebar but stem only if necessary, put a 7sp freewheel
on, use 7sp twisters with long pattern brake levers, and perhaps
different brake calipers, to ensure maximum "easy" brake power.

Feasible? Hardware suggestions, please?

BTW: There were good indications for Ergo (Campy) during a brief try-
out on one of my bikes, ridden in a stationary trainer. Fine and
dandy, but maybe for a different bike in the future, after some road
time on a skinny-tire road bike that's easy and safe to ride, i.e.,
lighter/more fun (!) than that bomber Expedition which was bought, and
has served well, as a trailer/solo bike for the local dirt-surface
hike n' bike trail. --D-y

peteymills@hotmail.com

01-03-1970, 05:38 PM

On Oct 22, 12:27 am, "Mike Blake" <k9...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have a Specialize Allez Sport (2002 vintage I think that I would like to
> convert from drop bars to a flat bar configuration. Our riding is all
> casual bike path or neighborhood riding and then only 5 to 10 miles a day.
>
> I would appreciate suggestions on cost effective shifting and brake controls
> for the bike's existing Tiagra rim brakes, Tiagra 3 ring front derauiller
> and 105 9 speed rear derauiller. The shifters do not have to be indexed...
> I suspect that bar end shifters would be appropriate but I am not sure.
>
> Tools and skills should not be a problem nor should time as I am retired.
> It is also to be a fun project and one which will get the Allez back into
> action having been all but replaced with a Giant Suede Coasting cruiser that
> both my wife and I ride daily. She did not ride at all prior to getting her
> Shimano Coasting equipped Suede.
>
> I digress :) Components and good places to purchase them are both welcome.
> Responses from vendors would be most welcome as a handful of you seem to
> provide many of the valuable responses on RBT
>
> Mike - K9JRI

A flat bar conversion would be a lot easier if they still had down-
tube levers--no messing around with new shifters and no extra cables
to get in the way. It would also be a lot easier if they still had
top-mount shifters--no worries about the combatibility of the front
indexing. I guess you can always change the front derailleur. Now
they have the push-button shifters--a great technological
improvement. If you can get these without the brake levers attached,
then you're laughing.

Personally I have no problem with a flat bar conversion for a road
bike. I see them all over Bremen--they make great city bikes--
although I'm not sure if the ones I see around here are conversions or
if they're sold that way.

peteymills@hotmail.com

01-03-1970, 05:38 PM

On Oct 22, 12:27 am, "Mike Blake" <k9...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have a Specialize Allez Sport (2002 vintage I think that I would like to
> convert from drop bars to a flat bar configuration. Our riding is all
> casual bike path or neighborhood riding and then only 5 to 10 miles a day.
>
> I would appreciate suggestions on cost effective shifting and brake controls
> for the bike's existing Tiagra rim brakes, Tiagra 3 ring front derauiller
> and 105 9 speed rear derauiller. The shifters do not have to be indexed...
> I suspect that bar end shifters would be appropriate but I am not sure.
>
> Tools and skills should not be a problem nor should time as I am retired.
> It is also to be a fun project and one which will get the Allez back into
> action having been all but replaced with a Giant Suede Coasting cruiser that
> both my wife and I ride daily. She did not ride at all prior to getting her
> Shimano Coasting equipped Suede.
>
> I digress :) Components and good places to purchase them are both welcome.
> Responses from vendors would be most welcome as a handful of you seem to
> provide many of the valuable responses on RBT
>
> Mike - K9JRI

Another point--depending on how stretched out you want to be, you may
want to substitute a longer stem. Generally mountain bikes have more
reach than road bikes because the bars don't have any reach "built
in." I find I am a lot more comfortable with this type of set-up,
although I rarely ride on flat bars. But on the other hand, if it's
comfort you're after, then go for a shorter stem with lots of rise.

landotter

01-03-1970, 05:38 PM

On Oct 21, 8:00 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 21, 6:27 pm, "Mike Blake" <k9...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I have a Specialize Allez Sport (2002 vintage I think that I would like to
> > convert from drop bars to a flat bar configuration. Our riding is all
> > casual bike path or neighborhood riding and then only 5 to 10 miles a day.
>
> Why the heck do you want to go from multi-position bars to flat bars
> that have one very un-ergonomic position? If the bars are too low--
> raise them for $20 with a Delta stem extender. Depending on your
> existing cable length, you may also need new cables/housings.
>
> http://www.deltacycle.com/product.php?g=9

In addition to a stem raiser--if you use a super flared drop like an
On-One Midge--ya might be really comfy and cookin' with gas!

http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/news/images/midge_side_hi.jpg

Mike Blake

01-03-1970, 05:38 PM

"landotter" <landotter@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1193018449.289458.120180@k35g2000prh.googlegr oups.com...
> On Oct 21, 8:00 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Oct 21, 6:27 pm, "Mike Blake" <k9...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I have a Specialize Allez Sport (2002 vintage I think that I would like
>> > to
>> > convert from drop bars to a flat bar configuration. Our riding is all
>> > casual bike path or neighborhood riding and then only 5 to 10 miles a
>> > day.
>>
>> Why the heck do you want to go from multi-position bars to flat bars
>> that have one very un-ergonomic position? If the bars are too low--
>> raise them for $20 with a Delta stem extender. Depending on your
>> existing cable length, you may also need new cables/housings.
>>
>> http://www.deltacycle.com/product.php?g=9
>
> In addition to a stem raiser--if you use a super flared drop like an
> On-One Midge--ya might be really comfy and cookin' with gas!
>
> http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/news/images/midge_side_hi.jpg
>
>
Thanks but I am looking for flat bars or even better yet, standard upright
cruiser bars. Either will be possible with most of the suggestions I have
already received. It appears the brakes are a non issue and that I really
only need to consider the shifters. The friction shifter suggestions look
really inviting.

Drop bars really suck for neighborhood riding where you want to look around
and talk to your riding partner.

Mike

>

Tom Sherman

01-03-1970, 05:39 PM

joseph.santaniello@gmail.com aka Joseph Santaniello wrote:
> ...
> Friction and 9-speed will not be a very satisying experience. You
> pretty much need indexed shifting....

I have no problems when I switch my bar end to friction mode (11-32 XT
cassette and Tiagra rear derailer [1]).

[1] Hey, that is what the manufacturer put on.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!

Hank Wirtz

01-03-1970, 05:40 PM

On Oct 22, 7:18 am, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
> On Oct 21, 6:27 pm, "Mike Blake" <k9...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> (Snipped):
>
> > I have a Specialize Allez Sport (2002 vintage I think
>
> Tiagra rim brakes, Tiagra 3 ring front derauiller
>
> > and 105 9 speed rear derauiller.
> > I digress :) Components and good places to purchase them are both welcome.
> > Responses from vendors would be most welcome as a handful of you seem to
> > provide many of the valuable responses on RBT
>
> The bike I'd like to convert to flat bar is a mid-eighties Japanese
> ("Zebra" branded, from South Austin Bikes) (Chalo troll... testing
> testing 123 pffft pftttt 12 is this thing on?) 6-sp road bike. Works
> fine as is but not for the intended rider.
>
> Suntour 5000 derailleurs. Shortie stem that would be fine if there's a
> "flat" bar to fit.
>
> For this application, twister shifters would be desired, as they
> (Gripshift 7sp) have been found to be satisfactory on a Specialized
> Expedition "comfort" (ha ha) bike, in combination with the long-style
> brake levers that bike came with.
>
> The object is a stable hand position and leverage at the brake lever
> for a rider with hand difficulties that make drop-bar riding dodgy--
> even with a long stem raised up, and brakes "tuned" for max power (new
> red pads and close adjustment). Changing hand postions is difficult,
> and the "vertical" hand orientation around a drop-bar brake lever and
> handle is not good for braking power and hold-on strength compared to
> the thumb wrap-around and horizontal hand position with flat bars (I'm
> guessing this also an issue with the OP).
>
> Thumb shifters? Probably not.
>
> I got a short distance with this at the FLBS but there seemed to be a
> similar bias against this conversion as seen here. "Bring it in", what
> they seemed to be saying "We really don't know how to do this but we
> might figure it out". More than I want to spend <g>.
>
> IOW, the case for drop bars is well understood but in this
> application, moot.
>
> (stating the obvious) I'd like to keep the wheels and derailleurs,
> change the handlebar but stem only if necessary, put a 7sp freewheel
> on, use 7sp twisters with long pattern brake levers, and perhaps
> different brake calipers, to ensure maximum "easy" brake power.
>
> Feasible? Hardware suggestions, please?
>

The RD will need to change, as old Suntours aren't compatible with any
twist-grip shifters. Any Shimano with appropriate wrap capacity will
work.

Here's the shifter set I'd use:
http://aebike.com/page.cfm?action=details&PageID=30&SKU=LD4751

Shimano-compatible 7-speed in the rear, micro-indexed in the front, so
your existing FD is sure to work.

As for brake levers, be sure to get ones that aren't for linear-pull
brakes, because their mechanical advantage will be too low, especially
for someone with hand strength issues. Here's Shimano's 105-level FB
road lever:
http://www.qbike.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?s=5&t=1&st=bl+r550&id=305532

If you want new calipers, figure out the reach you need and get either
the short or long reach dual-pivots at Nashbar.

For a bar, whichever is comfortable will work. If you're keeping the
stem, measure the current bar's stem clamp diameter. If it's 25.4, any
non-OS flat bar will work. If it's 26.0, get a Nitto shim, or make one
out of a few layers of aluminum can. FWIW, I use the Nitto shim on my
cruiser, because being sure it would work was worth the $7 or however
much it cost me.

If the current stem is too low, then just get a Mountain-style riser
stem, and it will already have the right sized clamp for a flat bar.

amakyonin

01-03-1970, 05:40 PM

The OP would do well to heed the advice of others and look into a
solution that retains the drop bars. This will be the least expenive
option. Many comfort and fatigue issues can be fixed by raising the
stem and also by moving the hoods higher up (Think Lance pre DA10).
Frankly, this is too nice a bike to be messing up with an oddball
setup. If one is deadset on having flat bars it would be better to
sell it to an owner that appreciates its merits and get something else
to ride on.

If the OP really wants to keep the bike and must have flat bars,
though, Shimano does make 9-speed road compatible flat bar shifters
(SL-R440-9 and SL-R660). They will be a special order from the LBS and
expensive to boot. Another cheaper option would be a MTB 9-speed
shifter (non-STI) for the rear and a thumbie for the front.

Mike Blake

01-03-1970, 05:41 PM

"Hank Wirtz" <hank@wirtznet.net> wrote in message
news:1193080180.478953.81030@v23g2000prn.googlegro ups.com...
> On Oct 22, 7:18 am, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
>> On Oct 21, 6:27 pm, "Mike Blake" <k9...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> (Snipped):
>>
>> > I have a Specialize Allez Sport (2002 vintage I think
>>
>> Tiagra rim brakes, Tiagra 3 ring front derauiller
>>
>> > and 105 9 speed rear derauiller.
>> > I digress :) Components and good places to purchase them are both
>> > welcome.
>> > Responses from vendors would be most welcome as a handful of you seem
>> > to
>> > provide many of the valuable responses on RBT
>>
>> The bike I'd like to convert to flat bar is a mid-eighties Japanese
>> ("Zebra" branded, from South Austin Bikes) (Chalo troll... testing
>> testing 123 pffft pftttt 12 is this thing on?) 6-sp road bike. Works
>> fine as is but not for the intended rider.
>>
>> Suntour 5000 derailleurs. Shortie stem that would be fine if there's a
>> "flat" bar to fit.
>>
>> For this application, twister shifters would be desired, as they
>> (Gripshift 7sp) have been found to be satisfactory on a Specialized
>> Expedition "comfort" (ha ha) bike, in combination with the long-style
>> brake levers that bike came with.
>>
>> The object is a stable hand position and leverage at the brake lever
>> for a rider with hand difficulties that make drop-bar riding dodgy--
>> even with a long stem raised up, and brakes "tuned" for max power (new
>> red pads and close adjustment). Changing hand postions is difficult,
>> and the "vertical" hand orientation around a drop-bar brake lever and
>> handle is not good for braking power and hold-on strength compared to
>> the thumb wrap-around and horizontal hand position with flat bars (I'm
>> guessing this also an issue with the OP).
>>
>> Thumb shifters? Probably not.
>>
>> I got a short distance with this at the FLBS but there seemed to be a
>> similar bias against this conversion as seen here. "Bring it in", what
>> they seemed to be saying "We really don't know how to do this but we
>> might figure it out". More than I want to spend <g>.
>>
>> IOW, the case for drop bars is well understood but in this
>> application, moot.
>>
>> (stating the obvious) I'd like to keep the wheels and derailleurs,
>> change the handlebar but stem only if necessary, put a 7sp freewheel
>> on, use 7sp twisters with long pattern brake levers, and perhaps
>> different brake calipers, to ensure maximum "easy" brake power.
>>
>> Feasible? Hardware suggestions, please?
>>
>
>
> The RD will need to change, as old Suntours aren't compatible with any
> twist-grip shifters. Any Shimano with appropriate wrap capacity will
> work.
>
> Here's the shifter set I'd use:
> http://aebike.com/page.cfm?action=details&PageID=30&SKU=LD4751
>
> Shimano-compatible 7-speed in the rear, micro-indexed in the front, so
> your existing FD is sure to work.
>
> As for brake levers, be sure to get ones that aren't for linear-pull
> brakes, because their mechanical advantage will be too low, especially
> for someone with hand strength issues. Here's Shimano's 105-level FB
> road lever:
> http://www.qbike.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?s=5&t=1&st=bl+r550&id=305532
>
> If you want new calipers, figure out the reach you need and get either
> the short or long reach dual-pivots at Nashbar.
>
> For a bar, whichever is comfortable will work. If you're keeping the
> stem, measure the current bar's stem clamp diameter. If it's 25.4, any
> non-OS flat bar will work. If it's 26.0, get a Nitto shim, or make one
> out of a few layers of aluminum can. FWIW, I use the Nitto shim on my
> cruiser, because being sure it would work was worth the $7 or however
> much it cost me.
>
> If the current stem is too low, then just get a Mountain-style riser
> stem, and it will already have the right sized clamp for a flat bar.
>
All good suggestions. Thanks!

Hank Wirtz

01-03-1970, 05:41 PM

On Oct 22, 1:09 pm, "Mike Blake" <k9...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Hank Wirtz" <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote in message
>
> news:1193080180.478953.81030@v23g2000prn.googlegro ups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Oct 22, 7:18 am, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
> >> On Oct 21, 6:27 pm, "Mike Blake" <k9...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> (Snipped):
>
> >> > I have a Specialize Allez Sport (2002 vintage I think
>
> >> Tiagra rim brakes, Tiagra 3 ring front derauiller
>
> >> > and 105 9 speed rear derauiller.
> >> > I digress :) Components and good places to purchase them are both
> >> > welcome.
> >> > Responses from vendors would be most welcome as a handful of you seem
> >> > to
> >> > provide many of the valuable responses on RBT
>
> >> The bike I'd like to convert to flat bar is a mid-eighties Japanese
> >> ("Zebra" branded, from South Austin Bikes) (Chalo troll... testing
> >> testing 123 pffft pftttt 12 is this thing on?) 6-sp road bike. Works
> >> fine as is but not for the intended rider.
>
> >> Suntour 5000 derailleurs. Shortie stem that would be fine if there's a
> >> "flat" bar to fit.
>
> >> For this application, twister shifters would be desired, as they
> >> (Gripshift 7sp) have been found to be satisfactory on a Specialized
> >> Expedition "comfort" (ha ha) bike, in combination with the long-style
> >> brake levers that bike came with.
>
> >> The object is a stable hand position and leverage at the brake lever
> >> for a rider with hand difficulties that make drop-bar riding dodgy--
> >> even with a long stem raised up, and brakes "tuned" for max power (new
> >> red pads and close adjustment). Changing hand postions is difficult,
> >> and the "vertical" hand orientation around a drop-bar brake lever and
> >> handle is not good for braking power and hold-on strength compared to
> >> the thumb wrap-around and horizontal hand position with flat bars (I'm
> >> guessing this also an issue with the OP).
>
> >> Thumb shifters? Probably not.
>
> >> I got a short distance with this at the FLBS but there seemed to be a
> >> similar bias against this conversion as seen here. "Bring it in", what
> >> they seemed to be saying "We really don't know how to do this but we
> >> might figure it out". More than I want to spend <g>.
>
> >> IOW, the case for drop bars is well understood but in this
> >> application, moot.
>
> >> (stating the obvious) I'd like to keep the wheels and derailleurs,
> >> change the handlebar but stem only if necessary, put a 7sp freewheel
> >> on, use 7sp twisters with long pattern brake levers, and perhaps
> >> different brake calipers, to ensure maximum "easy" brake power.
>
> >> Feasible? Hardware suggestions, please?
>
> > The RD will need to change, as old Suntours aren't compatible with any
> > twist-grip shifters. Any Shimano with appropriate wrap capacity will
> > work.
>
> > Here's the shifter set I'd use:
> >http://aebike.com/page.cfm?action=details&PageID=30&SKU=LD4751
>
> > Shimano-compatible 7-speed in the rear, micro-indexed in the front, so
> > your existing FD is sure to work.
>
> > As for brake levers, be sure to get ones that aren't for linear-pull
> > brakes, because their mechanical advantage will be too low, especially
> > for someone with hand strength issues. Here's Shimano's 105-level FB
> > road lever:
> >http://www.qbike.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?s=5&t=1&st=bl+r550&id=305532
>
> > If you want new calipers, figure out the reach you need and get either
> > the short or long reach dual-pivots at Nashbar.
>
> > For a bar, whichever is comfortable will work. If you're keeping the
> > stem, measure the current bar's stem clamp diameter. If it's 25.4, any
> > non-OS flat bar will work. If it's 26.0, get a Nitto shim, or make one
> > out of a few layers of aluminum can. FWIW, I use the Nitto shim on my
> > cruiser, because being sure it would work was worth the $7 or however
> > much it cost me.
>
> > If the current stem is too low, then just get a Mountain-style riser
> > stem, and it will already have the right sized clamp for a flat bar.
>
> All good suggestions. Thanks!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Oh, as for the shifter I suggested, that was directed at
Dustoyevsky...If you've got a 9-speed system, you'll need a 9-speed
shifter. I know that SRAM has Centera and Attack twist-shifters that
are Shimano-compatible, but I think only Attack has a micro-indexed
front, and mountain FD indexing isn't compatible with STI road front
indexing.

I _believe_ this is the shifter you'd need, but take no responsibility
for the accuracy of that information :)
http://www.qbike.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?s=4&t=1&st=sram+attack&id=57353

vey

01-03-1970, 05:41 PM

Mike Blake wrote:

>
> Drop bars really suck for neighborhood riding where you want to look
> around and talk to your riding partner.
>
> Mike
>
>>

I agree, and so do flat bars. Try them and find out for yourself -- I
think they are worse than drop bars. So I put on a 12" stem, then some
north road bars. But then I needed a saddle designed for upright
seating, so I put an old Brooks B-66 I got of ebay for $10+$10 shipping.

I use indexed twist shifters with this setup and they work okay.

Mike Blake

01-03-1970, 05:42 PM

"amakyonin" <amakyonin-u1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1193088877.751775.165180@z24g2000prh.googlegr oups.com...
> The OP would do well to heed the advice of others and look into a
> solution that retains the drop bars. This will be the least expenive

Good suggestion if that fit the objective. The road bar setup fit me
perfectly... comfort was not an issue. It is just a lousy riding position
for cruising.

> option. Many comfort and fatigue issues can be fixed by raising the
> stem and also by moving the hoods higher up (Think Lance pre DA10).
> Frankly, this is too nice a bike to be messing up with an oddball
> setup. If one is deadset on having flat bars it would be better to
> sell it to an owner that appreciates its merits and get something else
> to ride on.
>

I do have something else to ride on but this is a fun project that will suit
our current riding style as well.

> If the OP really wants to keep the bike and must have flat bars,
> though, Shimano does make 9-speed road compatible flat bar shifters
> (SL-R440-9 and SL-R660). They will be a special order from the LBS and
> expensive to boot. Another cheaper option would be a MTB 9-speed
> shifter (non-STI) for the rear and a thumbie for the front.
>
Looks like the North Road Bar or similar will be more appropriate. Thanks
for the input on the shifters.

Mike Blake

01-03-1970, 05:42 PM

"vey" <junker@ericvey.com> wrote in message
news:ffj5fe$kf$1@news.datemas.de...
> Mike Blake wrote:
>
>>
>> Drop bars really suck for neighborhood riding where you want to look
>> around and talk to your riding partner.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>>
>
> I agree, and so do flat bars. Try them and find out for yourself -- I
> think they are worse than drop bars. So I put on a 12" stem, then some
> north road bars. But then I needed a saddle designed for upright seating,
> so I put an old Brooks B-66 I got of ebay for $10+$10 shipping.
>
> I use indexed twist shifters with this setup and they work okay.

Well I agree. Flat bars are not the answer either. I removed the drop bars
from the bike today and put small allen head, setcrew, cable stops on both
shifter cables locking the front chainrins and the rear sprockets in their
middle cogs. That will hold me until I select shifters. I removed the
riser bars from the Giant and put it on the Allez. Both stems have 1"
clamps so that was trivial. It felt pretty good that way... I will
possibly need a slightly higher stem but that will not be a problem. The
North Road bars look very much like the bars on the Giant but it has
slightly less rise. I can get the exact same bar as is on the Giant from my
LBS for about $20.00.

Thanks to everyone for their great suggestions and for those die-hard drop
bar responses I appreciate your perspectives as well. A road bike with
cruiser bars don't look toooo bad:) You may have to increase your meds a
bit to recognize the beauty in it though :)

Mike

dustoyevsky@mac.com

01-03-1970, 05:42 PM

On Oct 22, 5:37 pm, Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:

> Oh, as for the shifter I suggested, that was directed at
> Dustoyevsky...If you've got a 9-speed system, you'll need a 9-speed
> shifter. I know that SRAM has Centera and Attack twist-shifters that
> are Shimano-compatible, but I think only Attack has a micro-indexed
> front, and mountain FD indexing isn't compatible with STI road front
> indexing.
>
> I _believe_ this is the shifter you'd need, but take no responsibility
> for the accuracy of that information :)http://www.qbike.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?s=4&t=1&st=sram+attack&id=57353

OK, and thanks.

When I gain a little on familiarity with this end of the cycling
world, I can ask better questions at purchase points. Not that people
aren't trying to be helpful, but I already ran into "resistance" when
I changed from the stubby brake levers on one of the other bikes to a
longer lever for more um leverage. IOW, helps to know what you
want...

This is a 126mm rear axle, freewheel hub, with some kind of 6sp
freewheel on it. I see twisters that are 7sp, and 7sp freewheels which
might work on this hub-- another complication.

When I needed a 6sp replacement twister for an old bike, I found they
were hard to find <g>.

FWIW, I've been riding drop bars for 40 years, "on and off" (sorry)
and our "family pass-around" comfort bike for about five years, either
with the trailer bike on it or alone with the kids, and I'm with the
OP IRT what he's trying to do. Long distance on flat bars? Probably
not as a regular thing (although I did an 85 mile day on a knobby bike
back in the day). I've seen people do the (Austin Tx) Tuesday Nighter
(road race, 9 mile loops) on flat bar ("mountain") bikes with road
tires instead of knobbies, etc. etc. and do just fine, aside from
making the drop bar people think about the chariot race in Ben Hur.

There's an 8yr old in the house who is used to flat bars, and will
probably inherit this bike too, as has been his fate a couple of times
already.

IMHO flat bars would make a good transitional setup when he's big
enough to ride his mom's old Zebra bike, for the neighborhood riding
he's likely to be doing before (if and when) he gets a real road bike.

Thanks, --D-y

vey

01-03-1970, 05:42 PM

Mike Blake wrote:
The North Road bars look very much like the
> bars on the Giant but it has slightly less rise. I can get the exact
> same bar as is on the Giant from my LBS for about $20.00.

The bars I saw on the Giant at my LBS were a little more flared than
North Road. More like a beach cruiser's. You can get North Road bars by
mail order for $25+ shipping. I got mine from a used bicycle store for
$15 and they are aluminum and I think 22" across.

As I said, I had to change the seat. The "new" seat put me even closer
to the bars and I'm not sure that I like being *that* far forward over
the pedals, but I ticked off 15 miles of quick riding the other day with
no ill effects. Mostly I ride like an old fart and when I have my dog
trotting next me, we go little faster than a brisk walking speed.

But that's the way I ride. Neighborly and for trips to the grocery store.

still me

01-03-1970, 05:42 PM

On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:39:39 GMT, "Mike Blake" <k9jri@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Thanks to everyone for their great suggestions and for those die-hard drop
>bar responses I appreciate your perspectives as well. A road bike with
>cruiser bars don't look toooo bad:) You may have to increase your meds a
>bit to recognize the beauty in it though :)

Many of us have found that numbness is an issue with flat bars. I did
the same thing as you - changed a road bike to flat. I use it for
short, fast jaunts when I just want to get 45 minutes of exercise. I
always go numb within 5 miles. I don't think it's the hand position as
much as the arm position - but the lack of variation seems to take a
toll. YMMV.

Mike Blake

01-03-1970, 05:43 PM

>
> As I said, I had to change the seat. The "new" seat put me even closer to
> the bars and I'm not sure that I like being *that* far forward over the
> pedals, but I ticked off 15 miles of quick riding the other day with no
> ill effects. Mostly I ride like an old fart and when I have my dog
> trotting next me, we go little faster than a brisk walking speed.
>
> But that's the way I ride. Neighborly and for trips to the grocery store.

I picked up the bars (hi rise cruiser style slightly higher than the Giant)
and a set of Tektro RT-345AG brake levers at the LBS today. Two new cables
and a few feet of cable guide and it was all together. Went for a short 1.5
mile ride with the gears locked at mid-range and I agree with you that a new
"old man's" seat will also be required for this riding position. The cost
has not been too bad thus far. $15 for the bars, $20 for the levers and $10
for the cables and guide. Nothing about the original drop bar and brifter
installation has been hurt either.

The LBS did not have any shifter sets for a 27 speed Shimano setup so I am
still deciding what to do for that piece. It looks surprisingly good thus
far. Kinda like a Plowhorse front end and a racehorse read :)

Mike

dustoyevsky@mac.com

01-03-1970, 05:46 PM

On Oct 23, 1:45 pm, "Mike Blake" <k9...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The LBS did not have any shifter sets for a 27 speed Shimano setup so I am
> still deciding what to do for that piece. It looks surprisingly good thus
> far. Kinda like a Plowhorse front end and a racehorse read :)

7x3 twisters at least are available on the black market:

http://tinyurl.com/26uyfr

--D-y

vey

01-03-1970, 05:46 PM

Mike Blake wrote:
>>
>> As I said, I had to change the seat. The "new" seat put me even closer
>> to the bars and I'm not sure that I like being *that* far forward over
>> the pedals, but I ticked off 15 miles of quick riding the other day
>> with no ill effects. Mostly I ride like an old fart and when I have my
>> dog trotting next me, we go little faster than a brisk walking speed.
>>
>> But that's the way I ride. Neighborly and for trips to the grocery store.
>
> I picked up the bars (hi rise cruiser style slightly higher than the
> Giant) and a set of Tektro RT-345AG brake levers at the LBS today. Two
> new cables and a few feet of cable guide and it was all together. Went
> for a short 1.5 mile ride with the gears locked at mid-range and I agree
> with you that a new "old man's" seat will also be required for this
> riding position. The cost has not been too bad thus far. $15 for the
> bars, $20 for the levers and $10 for the cables and guide. Nothing
> about the original drop bar and brifter installation has been hurt either.
>
> The LBS did not have any shifter sets for a 27 speed Shimano setup so I
> am still deciding what to do for that piece. It looks surprisingly good
> thus far. Kinda like a Plowhorse front end and a racehorse read :)
>
> Mike
>
>
Now you have to put a basket on the front and drive the purists crazy.
No panniers, baskets.

Mike Blake

01-03-1970, 05:46 PM

<dustoyevsky@mac.com> wrote in message
news:1193168638.210736.59010@v23g2000prn.googlegro ups.com...
> On Oct 23, 1:45 pm, "Mike Blake" <k9...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> The LBS did not have any shifter sets for a 27 speed Shimano setup so I
>> am
>> still deciding what to do for that piece. It looks surprisingly good
>> thus
>> far. Kinda like a Plowhorse front end and a racehorse read :)
>
> 7x3 twisters at least are available on the black market:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/26uyfr
>
> --D-y
>
I am a bit confused. How will those shifters help with a 9X3 configuration?

Since I seldom shift I have been looking for some thumb shifters that will
mount on the handlebars on each side of the stem. I am not having much luck
finding anything that I am sure will work.

Mike

Hank Wirtz

01-03-1970, 05:46 PM

On Oct 23, 12:53 pm, "Mike Blake" <k9...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1193168638.210736.59010@v23g2000prn.googlegro ups.com...> On Oct 23, 1:45 pm, "Mike Blake" <k9...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> The LBS did not have any shifter sets for a 27 speed Shimano setup so I
> >> am
> >> still deciding what to do for that piece. It looks surprisingly good
> >> thus
> >> far. Kinda like a Plowhorse front end and a racehorse read :)
>
> > 7x3 twisters at least are available on the black market:
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/26uyfr
>
> > --D-y
>
> I am a bit confused. How will those shifters help with a 9X3 configuration?
>
> Since I seldom shift I have been looking for some thumb shifters that will
> mount on the handlebars on each side of the stem. I am not having much luck
> finding anything that I am sure will work.
>
> Mike

If you don't care about indexing, here's your guy:
http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/shifters_and_derailers#product=17-097

Friction thumbshifters, $13 a set.

If you want indexing, you'll need a set of Paul's Thumbies plus a pair
of Shimano bar-ends - well over $100 for the entire setup.

Or, like I mentioned downthread, SRAM Attack twisters are $50-60.

dustoyevsky@mac.com

01-03-1970, 05:46 PM

On Oct 23, 2:53 pm, "Mike Blake" <k9...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am a bit confused. How will those shifters help with a 9X3 configuration?

I have cleaned my glasses. Apologies. --D-y

Mike Blake

01-03-1970, 05:47 PM

>> Mike
>
> If you don't care about indexing, here's your guy:
> http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/shifters_and_derailers#product=17-097
>
> Friction thumbshifters, $13 a set.
>
> If you want indexing, you'll need a set of Paul's Thumbies plus a pair
> of Shimano bar-ends - well over $100 for the entire setup.
>
> Or, like I mentioned downthread, SRAM Attack twisters are $50-60.
>
Thanks Hank! This is just what I have been looking for. I don't think I
need indexing. I know my old bikes did not have indexed shifting and I
don't have any bad memories of that. Come to think of it I can't remember
much of anything.

Then on to a nice leather seat and matching grips :-)

Mike

Mike Blake

01-03-1970, 05:47 PM

"vey" <junker@ericvey.com> wrote in message
news:fflkj7$nb6$1@news.datemas.de...
>> Mike
>>
>>
> Now you have to put a basket on the front and drive the purists crazy. No
> panniers, baskets.

Very cool idea. I will look into a basket immediately. Would you suggest
wicker or wire?

Mike

vey

01-03-1970, 05:47 PM

Mike Blake wrote:
>
>
> "vey" <junker@ericvey.com> wrote in message
> news:fflkj7$nb6$1@news.datemas.de...
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>> Now you have to put a basket on the front and drive the purists crazy.
>> No panniers, baskets.
>
> Very cool idea. I will look into a basket immediately. Would you
> suggest wicker or wire?
>
> Mike
>
>

I use wire because I actually use it for trips to the grocery store and
what-not. I dunno how strong wicker would be if 20+ pounds were put in
it. The basket I had before I made all these changes wasn't big enough,
plus when I raised the stem, it wouldn't fit right anymore.

Since I was going to have to convert this thing to upright seating I had
an idea, why not make a bicycle that was more utilitarian than those
"comfort" bikes in the LBS and not spend much money doing it?

I live in-town now, so it is quicker for me to ride the two miles to
downtown than it is to drive and find a parking space. We still have a
hardware store downtown, but it is hard to bring much home from a
hardware store with a little basket. The grocery store is about a mile
and a half away. The basket I had would hold one paper bag full, which
was not very much, but I knew that a bigger basket and more weight makes
it harder to steer and I didn't like that. I used to have a big basket
on a bike I had years ago.

I thought about a trailer, but then I have to store it and I have a
rule. If it takes me any longer than 5 minutes to do a bunch of things
to get ready to ride, I don't do them. No lycra for me. I ride in street
clothes. Takes too long to change my clothes.

So I poked around online until I found this design:
http://www.rat-patrol.org/packrat/redass01.jpg
by Alex Wilson in Chicago.

I liked the design because it put all the weight on the frame instead of
the front wheel hub, which helps the steering. And it is cantilevered.
And no welding or brazing. So I got some 1/2" EMT and some U-Bolts and
made something like it on my old MTB style frame.

Then I put a Pyramid double kickstand on (it is like a motorcycle stand)
so I didn't have to worry about it toppling. I should have gotten of
those 30 years ago! What a difference a good stand makes. I could have
spent more money and gotten a lighter one. This Pyramid stand is solid
steel. But all this time, I was obsessed with weight and aerodynamics
and speed and clips and all the other stuff to get obsessed about. This
time around with this type of bike, who cares?

The prices Wald charges for their big baskets is shocking. I got a big
basket from the home organization section of Lowe's for half the price
and put it on the front with U-bolts. I can easily carry 50 pounds in
the front now, so when the dog needs food, I don't have to drive to
store anymore to get it. I couldn't have fit a big bag of dog food in
the little basket I had before.

I haven't figured out exactly what I am going to put on the back yet. I
have some ideas.

I really need to take pics of this thing. The pics would be real thigh
slappers. It's pretty funny looking, but it works and I don't think I
have to worry much about theft.

k9jri

01-03-1970, 05:48 PM

On Oct 23, 9:18 pm, vey <jun...@ericvey.com> wrote:
> Mike Blake wrote:
>
> > "vey" <jun...@ericvey.com> wrote in message
> >news:fflkj7$nb6$1@news.datemas.de...
> >>> Mike
>
> >> Now you have to put a basket on the front and drive the purists crazy.
> >> No panniers, baskets.
>
> > Very cool idea. I will look into a basket immediately. Would you
> > suggest wicker or wire?
>
> > Mike
>
> I use wire because I actually use it for trips to the grocery store and
> what-not. I dunno how strong wicker would be if 20+ pounds were put in
> it. The basket I had before I made all these changes wasn't big enough,
> plus when I raised the stem, it wouldn't fit right anymore.
>
> Since I was going to have to convert this thing to upright seating I had
> an idea, why not make a bicycle that was more utilitarian than those
> "comfort" bikes in the LBS and not spend much money doing it?
>
> I live in-town now, so it is quicker for me to ride the two miles to
> downtown than it is to drive and find a parking space. We still have a
> hardware store downtown, but it is hard to bring much home from a
> hardware store with a little basket. The grocery store is about a mile
> and a half away. The basket I had would hold one paper bag full, which
> was not very much, but I knew that a bigger basket and more weight makes
> it harder to steer and I didn't like that. I used to have a big basket
> on a bike I had years ago.
>
> I thought about a trailer, but then I have to store it and I have a
> rule. If it takes me any longer than 5 minutes to do a bunch of things
> to get ready to ride, I don't do them. No lycra for me. I ride in street
> clothes. Takes too long to change my clothes.
>
> So I poked around online until I found this design:http://www.rat-patrol.org/packrat/redass01.jpg
> by Alex Wilson in Chicago.
>
> I liked the design because it put all the weight on the frame instead of
> the front wheel hub, which helps the steering. And it is cantilevered.
> And no welding or brazing. So I got some 1/2" EMT and some U-Bolts and
> made something like it on my old MTB style frame.
>
> Then I put a Pyramid double kickstand on (it is like a motorcycle stand)
> so I didn't have to worry about it toppling. I should have gotten of
> those 30 years ago! What a difference a good stand makes. I could have
> spent more money and gotten a lighter one. This Pyramid stand is solid
> steel. But all this time, I was obsessed with weight and aerodynamics
> and speed and clips and all the other stuff to get obsessed about. This
> time around with this type of bike, who cares?
>
> The prices Wald charges for their big baskets is shocking. I got a big
> basket from the home organization section of Lowe's for half the price
> and put it on the front with U-bolts. I can easily carry 50 pounds in
> the front now, so when the dog needs food, I don't have to drive to
> store anymore to get it. I couldn't have fit a big bag of dog food in
> the little basket I had before.
>
> I haven't figured out exactly what I am going to put on the back yet. I
> have some ideas.
>
> I really need to take pics of this thing. The pics would be real thigh
> slappers. It's pretty funny looking, but it works and I don't think I
> have to worry much about theft.

I think I will pass on that basket arrangement! Thanks for all of
your help.... It is coming together better than I had expected.

Mike

vey

01-03-1970, 05:49 PM

k9jri wrote:

>
> I think I will pass on that basket arrangement! Thanks for all of
> your help.... It is coming together better than I had expected.
>
> Mike
>
>

That's okay. I can understand why you wouldn't want people pointing at
you. When I got my "new" saddle and I was sitting upright, it seemed so
familiar. Wait, this is how I used to ride before all the bike boom!

May a recommend a sprung saddle? Sheldon explains why better than I can:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html#springs

Hank Wirtz

01-03-1970, 05:52 PM

On Oct 24, 1:04 pm, vey <jun...@ericvey.com> wrote:
> k9jri wrote:
>
> > I think I will pass on that basket arrangement! Thanks for all of
> > your help.... It is coming together better than I had expected.
>
> > Mike
>
> That's okay. I can understand why you wouldn't want people pointing at
> you. When I got my "new" saddle and I was sitting upright, it seemed so
> familiar. Wait, this is how I used to ride before all the bike boom!
>
> May a recommend a sprung saddle? Sheldon explains why better than I can:http://www.sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html#springs

Brooks Champion Flyer or B66 is awesome. I've got a Flyer on my
cruiser conversion (Peugeot Orient Express MTB with a Nexus8 planetary
hub, North Road Bars, cork grips and a Wald wire front basket).
Really, really fun bike.

http://www.bikejournal.com/images/hankamania052707_17561.jpg

(picture is pre-basket)

k9jri

01-03-1970, 05:52 PM

On Oct 24, 4:04 pm, vey <jun...@ericvey.com> wrote:
> k9jri wrote:
>
> > I think I will pass on that basket arrangement! Thanks for all of
> > your help.... It is coming together better than I had expected.
>
> > Mike
>
> That's okay. I can understand why you wouldn't want people pointing at
> you. When I got my "new" saddle and I was sitting upright, it seemed so
> familiar. Wait, this is how I used to ride before all the bike boom!
>
> May a recommend a sprung saddle? Sheldon explains why better than I can:http://www.sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html#springs

I had read Sheldon's article, may of them in fact, and had already
decided on a sprung saddle. Not sure which one yet but sprung for
sure. My LBS ordered the SunRace (they look exactly like the shifters
in the Rivendale ad) friction shifters for me today. They were
really expensive at about $11.50 for the pair :) The only thing left
is the saddle and if I choose something inexpensive I believe the
whole conversion will be about $100. It totals about $75 right now
including the friction thumb shifters.

Thanks again for your comments - Mike