REI Warranty

[Frank Drackman]

Last week I posted a message about breaking an REI frame and wondered if it
was worth repairing. One of the responses was that REI frames had a
lifetime warranty.

On Friday night I went to the local REI retail location and discussed the
situation with a couple of employees. The first told me that REI didn't
make bikes. The second had no idea about warranty and the third told me "We
will take care of you." When I asked what that meant he said that if I
brought the bike in on Saturday the repair shop would give me a new frame
and switch my old parts for free.

I brought the bike in on Saturday and was told that the shop manager would
have to make the decision and would not be in until Monday morning and would
call me so after they opened.

When I didn't hear from them I called. A bike shop employee told me that
the guy who makes decisions isn't. I asked to be transferred to the store
manager. After I told her the story she said that the bicycling manager
would be able to make a decision today.

I just received another call and she said that the correct person will be in
sometime tomorrow and will call me. It seems that there is no clear
warranty policy and it will be interesting to see what they tell me
tomorrow.

[datakoll]

http://www.google.com/search?q=REI+warranty&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLJ

[SMS]

Frank Drackman wrote:
> Last week I posted a message about breaking an REI frame and wondered if it
> was worth repairing. One of the responses was that REI frames had a
> lifetime warranty.
>
> On Friday night I went to the local REI retail location and discussed the
> situation with a couple of employees. The first told me that REI didn't
> make bikes. The second had no idea about warranty and the third told me "We
> will take care of you." When I asked what that meant he said that if I
> brought the bike in on Saturday the repair shop would give me a new frame
> and switch my old parts for free.
>
> I brought the bike in on Saturday and was told that the shop manager would
> have to make the decision and would not be in until Monday morning and would
> call me so after they opened.
>
> When I didn't hear from them I called. A bike shop employee told me that
> the guy who makes decisions isn't. I asked to be transferred to the store
> manager. After I told her the story she said that the bicycling manager
> would be able to make a decision today.
>
> I just received another call and she said that the correct person will be in
> sometime tomorrow and will call me. It seems that there is no clear
> warranty policy and it will be interesting to see what they tell me
> tomorrow.

You probably have a better chance of getting REI to honor their warranty
than you would of getting a bicycle shop to honor the warranty of Trek,
Specialized, etc., where every excuse is used to get out of replacing
the frame.

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> Last week I posted a message about breaking an REI frame and wondered if
> it was worth repairing. One of the responses was that REI frames had a
> lifetime warranty.
>
> On Friday night I went to the local REI retail location and discussed the
> situation with a couple of employees. The first told me that REI didn't
> make bikes. The second had no idea about warranty and the third told me
> "We will take care of you." When I asked what that meant he said that if
> I brought the bike in on Saturday the repair shop would give me a new
> frame and switch my old parts for free.
>
> I brought the bike in on Saturday and was told that the shop manager would
> have to make the decision and would not be in until Monday morning and
> would call me so after they opened.
>
> When I didn't hear from them I called. A bike shop employee told me that
> the guy who makes decisions isn't. I asked to be transferred to the store
> manager. After I told her the story she said that the bicycling manager
> would be able to make a decision today.
>
> I just received another call and she said that the correct person will be
> in sometime tomorrow and will call me. It seems that there is no clear
> warranty policy and it will be interesting to see what they tell me
> tomorrow.

So until Saturday nobody at REI had even seen the bike, and yet someone
there told you it would be covered as a warranty? That seems strangest of
all. You can't assume something's a warranty based solely on the description
given by a customer over the phone. Perhaps half the time there's something
left out, if you know what I mean (for example, bikes that we're told never
hit anything, but somehow the rim or downtube became buckled).

The quality of the bike departments at REI varies tremendously. Some are
great, others much less so. I'm not sure where the decision is made
regarding how much focus to place on the individual bike departments, but
obviously there's no company-wide edict that says they want very high
quality bike departments as a rule.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"Frank Drackman" <frankdrack@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3IudnVlS_9LmtoDanZ2dnUVZ_o-mnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Last week I posted a message about breaking an REI frame and wondered if
> it was worth repairing. One of the responses was that REI frames had a
> lifetime warranty.
>
> On Friday night I went to the local REI retail location and discussed the
> situation with a couple of employees. The first told me that REI didn't
> make bikes. The second had no idea about warranty and the third told me
> "We will take care of you." When I asked what that meant he said that if
> I brought the bike in on Saturday the repair shop would give me a new
> frame and switch my old parts for free.
>
> I brought the bike in on Saturday and was told that the shop manager would
> have to make the decision and would not be in until Monday morning and
> would call me so after they opened.
>
> When I didn't hear from them I called. A bike shop employee told me that
> the guy who makes decisions isn't. I asked to be transferred to the store
> manager. After I told her the story she said that the bicycling manager
> would be able to make a decision today.
>
> I just received another call and she said that the correct person will be
> in sometime tomorrow and will call me. It seems that there is no clear
> warranty policy and it will be interesting to see what they tell me
> tomorrow.
>

[damyth]

On Oct 22, 4:02 pm, "Frank Drackman" <frankdr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Last week I posted a message about breaking an REI frame and wondered if it
> was worth repairing. One of the responses was that REI frames had a
> lifetime warranty.
>
> On Friday night I went to the local REI retail location and discussed the
> situation with a couple of employees. The first told me that REI didn't
> make bikes. The second had no idea about warranty and the third told me "We
> will take care of you." When I asked what that meant he said that if I
> brought the bike in on Saturday the repair shop would give me a new frame
> and switch my old parts for free.
>
> I brought the bike in on Saturday and was told that the shop manager would
> have to make the decision and would not be in until Monday morning and would
> call me so after they opened.
>
> When I didn't hear from them I called. A bike shop employee told me that
> the guy who makes decisions isn't. I asked to be transferred to the store
> manager. After I told her the story she said that the bicycling manager
> would be able to make a decision today.
>
> I just received another call and she said that the correct person will be in
> sometime tomorrow and will call me. It seems that there is no clear
> warranty policy and it will be interesting to see what they tell me
> tomorrow.

Please do some due diligence before going ballistic (just one example
from REI's OWN web site):
http://www.rei.com/rei/gearshop/novara/0304randonee.pdf
"Bargain chrome-moly touring bike with a lifetime guarantee"

As of 2007 the Randonee is still in the REI (Novara) line up. REI
employees might not be up on the latest corporate policies but they're
generally pretty knowledgeable about the nuts and bolts kind of
stuff. It's just too bad they force all such decisions (&
responsibilities) solely on the bike shop manager.

I have no affiliation with REI aside from being a highly satisfied
customer. They've always treated me right when any issues arose. The
same can't be said of most other shops or manufacturers.

[Alan Hoyle]

On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:02:45, datakoll wrote:


> http://www.google.com/search?q=REI+warranty&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLJ

http://www.rei.com/shared/help/returns.html

"Every item you purchase at REI is 100% guaranteed to meet your high
standards. Whether you made your purchase online, by mail or in an REI
store, you may return or exchange it by mail or at any of our retail
locations. Returns information and instructions are listed below and
can also be found on the back of your invoice."

....

"5. Please launder or clean any used merchandise being returned."

-alan

--
Alan Hoyle - alanh@unc.edu - http://www.alanhoyle.com/
"I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG
Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.

[Frank Drackman]

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:471d2e53$0$79952$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Frank Drackman wrote:
>> Last week I posted a message about breaking an REI frame and wondered if
>> it was worth repairing. One of the responses was that REI frames had a
>> lifetime warranty.
>>
>> On Friday night I went to the local REI retail location and discussed the
>> situation with a couple of employees. The first told me that REI didn't
>> make bikes. The second had no idea about warranty and the third told me
>> "We will take care of you." When I asked what that meant he said that if
>> I brought the bike in on Saturday the repair shop would give me a new
>> frame and switch my old parts for free.
>>
>> I brought the bike in on Saturday and was told that the shop manager
>> would have to make the decision and would not be in until Monday morning
>> and would call me so after they opened.
>>
>> When I didn't hear from them I called. A bike shop employee told me that
>> the guy who makes decisions isn't. I asked to be transferred to the
>> store manager. After I told her the story she said that the bicycling
>> manager would be able to make a decision today.
>>
>> I just received another call and she said that the correct person will be
>> in sometime tomorrow and will call me. It seems that there is no clear
>> warranty policy and it will be interesting to see what they tell me
>> tomorrow.
>
> You probably have a better chance of getting REI to honor their warranty
> than you would of getting a bicycle shop to honor the warranty of Trek,
> Specialized, etc., where every excuse is used to get out of replacing the
> frame.

At this point I am not sure there really is a lifetime warranty. My
original reason for visiting on Friday was to purchase a new bike.

It was after one employee told me that they would give me a new frame that
it became interesting.

One thing is extremely clear is that REI needs to think about employee
training. One employee didn't know that Novara was the house brand. He
really thought that it was a national brand like Trek or Specialized.

Another employee in the bike department didn't know that the Randonee model
was still offered for sale. He thought that it had been replaced by the
Element.

So far I have spoken six different employees, none could tell me what the
warranty policy is.

[datakoll]

Frank, really. A rather high percentage of clerk help isn't deeply
involved - in anything.
Don't ask the shop, ask REI.
Google: sue REI, sue REI warranty, warranty bicycle,
tollfree?

[Frank Drackman]

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote in message
news:inaTi.380$%13.343@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net. ..
>> Last week I posted a message about breaking an REI frame and wondered if
>> it was worth repairing. One of the responses was that REI frames had a
>> lifetime warranty.
>>
>> On Friday night I went to the local REI retail location and discussed the
>> situation with a couple of employees. The first told me that REI didn't
>> make bikes. The second had no idea about warranty and the third told me
>> "We will take care of you." When I asked what that meant he said that if
>> I brought the bike in on Saturday the repair shop would give me a new
>> frame and switch my old parts for free.
>>
>> I brought the bike in on Saturday and was told that the shop manager
>> would have to make the decision and would not be in until Monday morning
>> and would call me so after they opened.
>>
>> When I didn't hear from them I called. A bike shop employee told me that
>> the guy who makes decisions isn't. I asked to be transferred to the
>> store manager. After I told her the story she said that the bicycling
>> manager would be able to make a decision today.
>>
>> I just received another call and she said that the correct person will be
>> in sometime tomorrow and will call me. It seems that there is no clear
>> warranty policy and it will be interesting to see what they tell me
>> tomorrow.
>
> So until Saturday nobody at REI had even seen the bike, and yet someone
> there told you it would be covered as a warranty? That seems strangest of
> all. You can't assume something's a warranty based solely on the
> description given by a customer over the phone. Perhaps half the time
> there's something left out, if you know what I mean (for example, bikes
> that we're told never hit anything, but somehow the rim or downtube became
> buckled).
>


I was also surprised by the employee telling me that it was covered by
warranty without seeing it. He kept saying things like, "We will do the
right thing" and "We will take care of you." As I noted above, I had to ask
him to define the terms.

I think that I learned today that the bike department sales floor is a
different profit center than the bike repair shop and that the employees are
not well versed in the policies, products, and procedures of both.

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Oct 22, 6:29 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> > Last week I posted a message about breaking an REI frame and wondered if
> > it was worth repairing. One of the responses was that REI frames had a
> > lifetime warranty.
>
> > On Friday night I went to the local REI retail location and discussed the
> > situation with a couple of employees. The first told me that REI didn't
> > make bikes. The second had no idea about warranty and the third told me
> > "We will take care of you." When I asked what that meant he said that if
> > I brought the bike in on Saturday the repair shop would give me a new
> > frame and switch my old parts for free.
>
> > I brought the bike in on Saturday and was told that the shop manager would
> > have to make the decision and would not be in until Monday morning and
> > would call me so after they opened.
>
> > When I didn't hear from them I called. A bike shop employee told me that
> > the guy who makes decisions isn't. I asked to be transferred to the store
> > manager. After I told her the story she said that the bicycling manager
> > would be able to make a decision today.
>
> > I just received another call and she said that the correct person will be
> > in sometime tomorrow and will call me. It seems that there is no clear
> > warranty policy and it will be interesting to see what they tell me
> > tomorrow.
>
> So until Saturday nobody at REI had even seen the bike, and yet someone
> there told you it would be covered as a warranty? That seems strangest of
> all. You can't assume something's a warranty based solely on the description
> given by a customer over the phone. Perhaps half the time there's something
> left out, if you know what I mean (for example, bikes that we're told never
> hit anything, but somehow the rim or downtube became buckled).
>
> The quality of the bike departments at REI varies tremendously.

So does the quality of bike shops in general, and Trek dealers are
included in that lot.


> Some are
> great, others much less so. I'm not sure where the decision is made
> regarding how much focus to place on the individual bike departments, but
> obviously there's no company-wide edict that says they want very high
> quality bike departments as a rule.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
> "Frank Drackman" <frankdr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:3IudnVlS_9LmtoDanZ2dnUVZ_o-mnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> > Last week I posted a message about breaking an REI frame and wondered if
> > it was worth repairing. One of the responses was that REI frames had a
> > lifetime warranty.
>
> > On Friday night I went to the local REI retail location and discussed the
> > situation with a couple of employees. The first told me that REI didn't
> > make bikes. The second had no idea about warranty and the third told me
> > "We will take care of you." When I asked what that meant he said that if
> > I brought the bike in on Saturday the repair shop would give me a new
> > frame and switch my old parts for free.
>
> > I brought the bike in on Saturday and was told that the shop manager would
> > have to make the decision and would not be in until Monday morning and
> > would call me so after they opened.
>
> > When I didn't hear from them I called. A bike shop employee told me that
> > the guy who makes decisions isn't. I asked to be transferred to the store
> > manager. After I told her the story she said that the bicycling manager
> > would be able to make a decision today.
>
> > I just received another call and she said that the correct person will be
> > in sometime tomorrow and will call me. It seems that there is no clear
> > warranty policy and it will be interesting to see what they tell me
> > tomorrow.

[datakoll]

not selling Frank Drackman a warranty is as good or better if you buy
another than selling a new bike.
also, the shop floor personnel are probabbly not legally bound or
liable for anything they tell you unless an unimpeachable witness
with video cam is there for you and in that case...
example, I'm a capable pro se lawyer - no one on the other side will
send me emails, presentable evidence. It's always, "give me a call."
other postters said REI had a warranty. if they weren't plling your
leg then go to REI Warranty - if there's warranty


THEN THERE'S A WARRANTY DEPARTMENT!

[datakoll]

GOOGLE'S NOT POSTING MY POSTS so if there's a double ...

Frank, the shop help isn't liable for telling you the earth is flat
unless you have an unimpeachable witness along with a video camera.

not selling you a warranty is as good or better than selling you a new
bike.

posters suggested there is a bike warranty so unless they're pulling
your wiene, you should find and speak directly with

REI WARRANTY DEPARTMENT

[SMS]

Frank Drackman wrote:

> I think that I learned today that the bike department sales floor is a
> different profit center than the bike repair shop and that the employees are
> not well versed in the policies, products, and procedures of both.

Yeah, I think that they may lease out the ski shop and bicycle shop in
terms of repairs, assembly, etc., but I'm not sure about this.

They've had a lifetime warranty on frames for a long time. They probably
don't even know when it started. They do keep old catalogs though
probably not for 13-14 years.

I once asked them about a jacket I had bought there, the first
generation Gore-Tex that never really worked. It must have been at least
seven years old. They gave me full credit towards a new jacket.

It's problematic about frame warranties, since they obviously can't
replace just the frame on a 14 year old bicycle with a new one that will
work with all the old components, unless they keep a stash of old frames
around.

They probably want to look at how it broke. If they can attribute it to
an accident then they can get out of replacing it.

[Tom Sherman]

datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
> GOOGLE'S NOT POSTING MY POSTS so if there's a double ...

After an initial glitch where a few news feeds were not being picked up,
I have been happy with news.motzarella.org. The price is right: free.

My newsreader (Mozilla Thunderbird) is also free.

Google Groups is annoying in the way it limits postings, mangles the
user name field in replies, ignores the signature separator, etc.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> GOOGLE'S NOT POSTING MY POSTS so if there's a double ...
>
> Frank, the shop help isn't liable for telling you the earth is flat
> unless you have an unimpeachable witness along with a video camera.

Careful there, you're close to stepping out of character!

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"datakoll" <datakoll@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1193105380.576364.269530@y27g2000pre.googlegr oups.com...
> GOOGLE'S NOT POSTING MY POSTS so if there's a double ...
>
> Frank, the shop help isn't liable for telling you the earth is flat
> unless you have an unimpeachable witness along with a video camera.
>
> not selling you a warranty is as good or better than selling you a new
> bike.
>
> posters suggested there is a bike warranty so unless they're pulling
> your wiene, you should find and speak directly with
>
> REI WARRANTY DEPARTMENT
>
>

[datakoll]

I hear the russian has a human skin lampshade collection

[Tom Sherman]

datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
> I hear the russian has a human skin lampshade collection
>
No, that was a cheesehead named Ed Gein:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Gein>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!

[datakoll]

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:1uP9j3Xpnp8J:www.rei.com/termsofuse+REI+RECREATIONAL+EQUIPMENT+INCORPORATED +WARRANTY+DEPARTMENT&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

31. Return and Exchanges. REI has a 100% Satisfaction Guarantee (see
http://www.rei.com/guarantee)

If you believe a product is defective, please call 1-800-426-4840 or
contact us for return instructions applicable under the REI 100%
Satisfaction Guarantee.

45 SECONDS

[Frank Drackman]

"damyth" <mdk.10.damyth@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message
news:1193109244.400280.124650@z24g2000prh.googlegr oups.com...
> On Oct 22, 4:02 pm, "Frank Drackman" <frankdr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Last week I posted a message about breaking an REI frame and wondered if
>> it
>> was worth repairing. One of the responses was that REI frames had a
>> lifetime warranty.
>>
>> On Friday night I went to the local REI retail location and discussed the
>> situation with a couple of employees. The first told me that REI didn't
>> make bikes. The second had no idea about warranty and the third told me
>> "We
>> will take care of you." When I asked what that meant he said that if I
>> brought the bike in on Saturday the repair shop would give me a new frame
>> and switch my old parts for free.
>>
>> I brought the bike in on Saturday and was told that the shop manager
>> would
>> have to make the decision and would not be in until Monday morning and
>> would
>> call me so after they opened.
>>
>> When I didn't hear from them I called. A bike shop employee told me that
>> the guy who makes decisions isn't. I asked to be transferred to the
>> store
>> manager. After I told her the story she said that the bicycling manager
>> would be able to make a decision today.
>>
>> I just received another call and she said that the correct person will be
>> in
>> sometime tomorrow and will call me. It seems that there is no clear
>> warranty policy and it will be interesting to see what they tell me
>> tomorrow.
>
> Please do some due diligence before going ballistic (just one example
> from REI's OWN web site):
> http://www.rei.com/rei/gearshop/novara/0304randonee.pdf
> "Bargain chrome-moly touring bike with a lifetime guarantee"
>

I don't know why you think that I was going ballistic.

I am generally happy with REI, and really loved the bike. My frustration
has been with trying to find out if the frame is covered by a lifetime
warranty. Unfortunately the website doesn't list the warranty policy for my
specific model from 1993 or 1994.

REI's general policy is "100% customer satisfaction guarantee" but they
don't outline what that really means.

[SMS]

Frank Drackman wrote:
now why you think that I was going ballistic.
>
> I am generally happy with REI, and really loved the bike. My frustration
> has been with trying to find out if the frame is covered by a lifetime
> warranty. Unfortunately the website doesn't list the warranty policy for my
> specific model from 1993 or 1994.

I would not agree to any proposal they put forward for a discount on a
new bicycle. Tell them that you can just leave the bicycle with them,
and that you can pick it up when the replacement frame arrives and when
the components are transferred over. It's common for companies to try to
get out of lifetime warranties by offering to sell you the latest and
greatest product at a significant discount, because they still end up
making money. If REI sells you a new Randonee for 50% off, that's no
bargain. If they agree that the frame failure was not due to abuse or
accident, then insist that they honor the warranty.

[Bob]

> REI's general policy is "100% customer satisfaction guarantee" but they
> don't outline what that really means.

In my mind it would be a 1)frame replacement 2) moving all your parts
over to the new frame. If it's about you being satisfied as a
customer then ask yourself the same question.

[Frank Drackman]

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:471d8438$0$79904$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Frank Drackman wrote:
>
>> I think that I learned today that the bike department sales floor is a
>> different profit center than the bike repair shop and that the employees
>> are not well versed in the policies, products, and procedures of both.
>
> Yeah, I think that they may lease out the ski shop and bicycle shop in
> terms of repairs, assembly, etc., but I'm not sure about this.
>
> They've had a lifetime warranty on frames for a long time. They probably
> don't even know when it started. They do keep old catalogs though probably
> not for 13-14 years.
>
> I once asked them about a jacket I had bought there, the first generation
> Gore-Tex that never really worked. It must have been at least seven years
> old. They gave me full credit towards a new jacket.
>
> It's problematic about frame warranties, since they obviously can't
> replace just the frame on a 14 year old bicycle with a new one that will
> work with all the old components, unless they keep a stash of old frames
> around.
>
>

The interesting thing about this bike is that they still make it. With the
exception of the stem, all of the parts can switch to a 2007 Randonee frame.

[datakoll]

http://www.geocities.com/rab_cdg1/tools.htm

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> If REI sells you a new Randonee for 50% off, that's no bargain. If they
> agree that the frame failure was not due to abuse or accident, then insist
> that they honor the warranty.

In that situation, whether it represents a good deal for the customer is
dependent not just on REI's offer, but the condition of the parts on the
customer's bike, and his possible desire to upgrade. It's not automatically
a bad thing to accept a 50% discount on a new bike.

In our case, we always give the customer the option of a replacement frame
or the relevant value in $$$ towards a new bike. It's the customer's call,
and about half the time they go for the new bike (because typically the old
bike's been around the block a few times).

Sometimes it gets difficult because the customer really wants the exact same
thing they had before, and it's simply no longer available (and not
repairable either). But more often than not, the customer is pleasantly
surprised that the company is taking care of a frame that's been well used &
over a decade old. In most cases, a bike company could get off on a
technicality on older bikes, claiming wear & tear from normal use, but I
have yet to see that come up.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:471d85cf$0$79904$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Frank Drackman wrote:
> now why you think that I was going ballistic.
>>
>> I am generally happy with REI, and really loved the bike. My frustration
>> has been with trying to find out if the frame is covered by a lifetime
>> warranty. Unfortunately the website doesn't list the warranty policy for
>> my specific model from 1993 or 1994.
>
> I would not agree to any proposal they put forward for a discount on a new
> bicycle. Tell them that you can just leave the bicycle with them, and that
> you can pick it up when the replacement frame arrives and when the
> components are transferred over. It's common for companies to try to get
> out of lifetime warranties by offering to sell you the latest and greatest
> product at a significant discount, because they still end up making money.
> If REI sells you a new Randonee for 50% off, that's no bargain. If they
> agree that the frame failure was not due to abuse or accident, then insist
> that they honor the warranty.

[datakoll]

On Oct 23, 6:33 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> http://www.geocities.com/rab_cdg1/tools.htm

http://www.rubbermaid.com/rubbermaid/support/warranty.jhtml

[datakoll]

On Oct 23, 6:39 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Oct 23, 6:33 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >http://www.geocities.com/rab_cdg1/tools.htm
>
> http://www.rubbermaid.com/rubbermaid/support/warranty.jhtml

http://www.spiceline.net/Products3.htm

not an avalanche

[datakoll]

On Oct 23, 6:41 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Oct 23, 6:39 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 23, 6:33 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > >http://www.geocities.com/rab_cdg1/tools.htm
>
> >http://www.rubbermaid.com/rubbermaid/support/warranty.jhtml
>
> http://www.spiceline.net/Products3.htm
>
> not an avalanche

elevator?

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

>> The quality of the bike departments at REI varies tremendously.
>
> So does the quality of bike shops in general, and Trek dealers are
> included in that lot.

I didn't mean to imply otherwise. But there's a belief sometimes that a
large corporate entity tends to have a greater degree of uniformity across
their locations, a la McDonalds, Sears, whatever, than you'd find across
individually-owned retail establishments. And in most cases, that's true.
REI is a bit different in how they run their bicycle operations.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in message
news:1193137662.131735.41270@y27g2000pre.googlegro ups.com...
> On Oct 22, 6:29 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> wrote:
>> > Last week I posted a message about breaking an REI frame and wondered
>> > if
>> > it was worth repairing. One of the responses was that REI frames had a
>> > lifetime warranty.
>>
>> > On Friday night I went to the local REI retail location and discussed
>> > the
>> > situation with a couple of employees. The first told me that REI
>> > didn't
>> > make bikes. The second had no idea about warranty and the third told
>> > me
>> > "We will take care of you." When I asked what that meant he said that
>> > if
>> > I brought the bike in on Saturday the repair shop would give me a new
>> > frame and switch my old parts for free.
>>
>> > I brought the bike in on Saturday and was told that the shop manager
>> > would
>> > have to make the decision and would not be in until Monday morning and
>> > would call me so after they opened.
>>
>> > When I didn't hear from them I called. A bike shop employee told me
>> > that
>> > the guy who makes decisions isn't. I asked to be transferred to the
>> > store
>> > manager. After I told her the story she said that the bicycling
>> > manager
>> > would be able to make a decision today.
>>
>> > I just received another call and she said that the correct person will
>> > be
>> > in sometime tomorrow and will call me. It seems that there is no clear
>> > warranty policy and it will be interesting to see what they tell me
>> > tomorrow.
>>
>> So until Saturday nobody at REI had even seen the bike, and yet someone
>> there told you it would be covered as a warranty? That seems strangest of
>> all. You can't assume something's a warranty based solely on the
>> description
>> given by a customer over the phone. Perhaps half the time there's
>> something
>> left out, if you know what I mean (for example, bikes that we're told
>> never
>> hit anything, but somehow the rim or downtube became buckled).
>>
>> The quality of the bike departments at REI varies tremendously.
>
> So does the quality of bike shops in general, and Trek dealers are
> included in that lot.
>
>
>> Some are
>> great, others much less so. I'm not sure where the decision is made
>> regarding how much focus to place on the individual bike departments, but
>> obviously there's no company-wide edict that says they want very high
>> quality bike departments as a rule.
>>
>> --Mike Jacoubowsky
>> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
>> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>>
>> "Frank Drackman" <frankdr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:3IudnVlS_9LmtoDanZ2dnUVZ_o-mnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> > Last week I posted a message about breaking an REI frame and wondered
>> > if
>> > it was worth repairing. One of the responses was that REI frames had a
>> > lifetime warranty.
>>
>> > On Friday night I went to the local REI retail location and discussed
>> > the
>> > situation with a couple of employees. The first told me that REI
>> > didn't
>> > make bikes. The second had no idea about warranty and the third told
>> > me
>> > "We will take care of you." When I asked what that meant he said that
>> > if
>> > I brought the bike in on Saturday the repair shop would give me a new
>> > frame and switch my old parts for free.
>>
>> > I brought the bike in on Saturday and was told that the shop manager
>> > would
>> > have to make the decision and would not be in until Monday morning and
>> > would call me so after they opened.
>>
>> > When I didn't hear from them I called. A bike shop employee told me
>> > that
>> > the guy who makes decisions isn't. I asked to be transferred to the
>> > store
>> > manager. After I told her the story she said that the bicycling
>> > manager
>> > would be able to make a decision today.
>>
>> > I just received another call and she said that the correct person will
>> > be
>> > in sometime tomorrow and will call me. It seems that there is no clear
>> > warranty policy and it will be interesting to see what they tell me
>> > tomorrow.
>
>

[SMS]

Frank Drackman wrote:
> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:471d8438$0$79904$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>> Frank Drackman wrote:
>>
>>> I think that I learned today that the bike department sales floor is a
>>> different profit center than the bike repair shop and that the employees
>>> are not well versed in the policies, products, and procedures of both.
>> Yeah, I think that they may lease out the ski shop and bicycle shop in
>> terms of repairs, assembly, etc., but I'm not sure about this.
>>
>> They've had a lifetime warranty on frames for a long time. They probably
>> don't even know when it started. They do keep old catalogs though probably
>> not for 13-14 years.
>>
>> I once asked them about a jacket I had bought there, the first generation
>> Gore-Tex that never really worked. It must have been at least seven years
>> old. They gave me full credit towards a new jacket.
>>
>> It's problematic about frame warranties, since they obviously can't
>> replace just the frame on a 14 year old bicycle with a new one that will
>> work with all the old components, unless they keep a stash of old frames
>> around.
>>
>>
>
> The interesting thing about this bike is that they still make it. With the
> exception of the stem, all of the parts can switch to a 2007 Randonee frame.

So how and where did the frame break? REI probably has frames in their
warehouse, as I've ordered spare parts for REI bicycles (bikes I don't
actually own) and they keep a large stock of components for their bikes.
I've bought several rear racks from them, as they're racks that are of a
very good design (see "http://bicycleluggageracks.com/").

[datakoll]

Ok, I buy from REI but I'm not schilling ...
In west coastese, REI sez if you're unhappy, REI is unhappy and REI
will make you happy with REI

"Plus, we listen to your feedback. (this here is the feed back) All of
it. Bottom line? You can count on everything we offer to be highly
functional, priced right and 100% guaranteed. Which means you can't go
wrong with gear from REI.
If you're ever dissatisfied with an item, you may return or exchange
your REI.com purchases at any REI store or through mail order."
"Every item you purchase at REI meets your high standards or you can
return for a REPLACEMENT or refund."
Like 100% is what? 100%
If REI exchanges a 14 year old frame, who would *****? The Court?

[Frank Drackman]

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:471e10b5$0$79871$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Frank Drackman wrote:
>> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:471d8438$0$79904$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>>> Frank Drackman wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think that I learned today that the bike department sales floor is a
>>>> different profit center than the bike repair shop and that the
>>>> employees are not well versed in the policies, products, and procedures
>>>> of both.
>>> Yeah, I think that they may lease out the ski shop and bicycle shop in
>>> terms of repairs, assembly, etc., but I'm not sure about this.
>>>
>>> They've had a lifetime warranty on frames for a long time. They probably
>>> don't even know when it started. They do keep old catalogs though
>>> probably not for 13-14 years.
>>>
>>> I once asked them about a jacket I had bought there, the first
>>> generation Gore-Tex that never really worked. It must have been at least
>>> seven years old. They gave me full credit towards a new jacket.
>>>
>>> It's problematic about frame warranties, since they obviously can't
>>> replace just the frame on a 14 year old bicycle with a new one that will
>>> work with all the old components, unless they keep a stash of old frames
>>> around.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The interesting thing about this bike is that they still make it. With
>> the exception of the stem, all of the parts can switch to a 2007 Randonee
>> frame.
>
> So how and where did the frame break? REI probably has frames in their
> warehouse, as I've ordered spare parts for REI bicycles (bikes I don't
> actually own) and they keep a large stock of components for their bikes.
> I've bought several rear racks from them, as they're racks that are of a
> very good design (see "http://bicycleluggageracks.com/").

Yesterday I received a message from REI about my bike. It was that the bike
is covered by warranty, they had ordered a new frame, would purchase parts
that will not switch from my old bike (headset, stem, and front derailleur),
and move all parts from my bike for free.

I called them back and said that I would pay for any new parts, and labor to
switch parts from my old bike and build on new frame.

How is that for 100% customer satisfaction?

[datakoll]

Frank wants a new free bicycle.
don't you Frank?
you can tell us we're your friends.

[A Muzi]

> datakoll wrote:
>> http://www.google.com/search?q=REI+warranty&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLJ

Alan Hoyle wrote:
> http://www.rei.com/shared/help/returns.html
> "Every item you purchase at REI is 100% guaranteed to meet your high
> standards. Whether you made your purchase online, by mail or in an REI
> store, you may return or exchange it by mail or at any of our retail
> locations. Returns information and instructions are listed below and
> can also be found on the back of your invoice."
> ...
> "5. Please launder or clean any used merchandise being returned."

Just wipe the dog poop from under the mudguards or actually buff the paint?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[datakoll]

- delete moist objectionable material -

RIGHT! TRY NOT TO BE AN ******* when asking for free stuff

[Tom Sherman]

datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
> - delete moist objectionable material -

A perfect description for dog poop.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Oct 25, 9:43 am, "Frank Drackman" <frankdr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "SMS" <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:471e10b5$0$79871$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>
>
>
> > Frank Drackman wrote:
> >> "SMS" <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:471d8438$0$79904$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> >>> Frank Drackman wrote:
>
> >>>> I think that I learned today that the bike department sales floor is a
> >>>> different profit center than the bike repair shop and that the
> >>>> employees are not well versed in the policies, products, and procedures
> >>>> of both.
> >>> Yeah, I think that they may lease out the ski shop and bicycle shop in
> >>> terms of repairs, assembly, etc., but I'm not sure about this.
>
> >>> They've had a lifetime warranty on frames for a long time. They probably
> >>> don't even know when it started. They do keep old catalogs though
> >>> probably not for 13-14 years.
>
> >>> I once asked them about a jacket I had bought there, the first
> >>> generation Gore-Tex that never really worked. It must have been at least
> >>> seven years old. They gave me full credit towards a new jacket.
>
> >>> It's problematic about frame warranties, since they obviously can't
> >>> replace just the frame on a 14 year old bicycle with a new one that will
> >>> work with all the old components, unless they keep a stash of old frames
> >>> around.
>
> >> The interesting thing about this bike is that they still make it. With
> >> the exception of the stem, all of the parts can switch to a 2007 Randonee
> >> frame.
>
> > So how and where did the frame break? REI probably has frames in their
> > warehouse, as I've ordered spare parts for REI bicycles (bikes I don't
> > actually own) and they keep a large stock of components for their bikes.
> > I've bought several rear racks from them, as they're racks that are of a
> > very good design (see "http://bicycleluggageracks.com/").
>
> Yesterday I received a message from REI about my bike. It was that the bike
> is covered by warranty, they had ordered a new frame, would purchase parts
> that will not switch from my old bike (headset, stem, and front derailleur),
> and move all parts from my bike for free.
>
> I called them back and said that I would pay for any new parts, and labor to
> switch parts from my old bike and build on new frame.
>
> How is that for 100% customer satisfaction?

Very impressive, and a great reason for strongly considering the
Novara brand! No weaseling about "normal wear and tear", etc. REI just
stepped up and delivered. Who could ask for more?

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> Yesterday I received a message from REI about my bike. It was that the
> bike is covered by warranty, they had ordered a new frame, would purchase
> parts that will not switch from my old bike (headset, stem, and front
> derailleur), and move all parts from my bike for free.
>
> I called them back and said that I would pay for any new parts, and labor
> to switch parts from my old bike and build on new frame.
>
> How is that for 100% customer satisfaction?

Manufacturers cover labor costs for a year (and what they offer is pretty
pathetic for a frame change), but I don't think we're the only shop that
would take care of that for free, pretty much regardless of how long a
customer had had a bike, when it's a bike we sold. I believe we did one last
year that was 20+ years old. But why would you offer to pay the labor for
them doing so? We'd turn that down if a customer offered, suggesting instead
that it might be a good idea to pay the difference between that and a
complete overhaul of the bike (which wouldn't be all that much money).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Frank Drackman" <frankdrack@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:LJidnRDOhIyaNr3anZ2dnUVZ_v6rnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:471e10b5$0$79871$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>> Frank Drackman wrote:
>>> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:471d8438$0$79904$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>>>> Frank Drackman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think that I learned today that the bike department sales floor is a
>>>>> different profit center than the bike repair shop and that the
>>>>> employees are not well versed in the policies, products, and
>>>>> procedures of both.
>>>> Yeah, I think that they may lease out the ski shop and bicycle shop in
>>>> terms of repairs, assembly, etc., but I'm not sure about this.
>>>>
>>>> They've had a lifetime warranty on frames for a long time. They
>>>> probably don't even know when it started. They do keep old catalogs
>>>> though probably not for 13-14 years.
>>>>
>>>> I once asked them about a jacket I had bought there, the first
>>>> generation Gore-Tex that never really worked. It must have been at
>>>> least seven years old. They gave me full credit towards a new jacket.
>>>>
>>>> It's problematic about frame warranties, since they obviously can't
>>>> replace just the frame on a 14 year old bicycle with a new one that
>>>> will work with all the old components, unless they keep a stash of old
>>>> frames around.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> The interesting thing about this bike is that they still make it. With
>>> the exception of the stem, all of the parts can switch to a 2007
>>> Randonee frame.
>>
>> So how and where did the frame break? REI probably has frames in their
>> warehouse, as I've ordered spare parts for REI bicycles (bikes I don't
>> actually own) and they keep a large stock of components for their bikes.
>> I've bought several rear racks from them, as they're racks that are of a
>> very good design (see "http://bicycleluggageracks.com/").
>
> Yesterday I received a message from REI about my bike. It was that the
> bike is covered by warranty, they had ordered a new frame, would purchase
> parts that will not switch from my old bike (headset, stem, and front
> derailleur), and move all parts from my bike for free.
>
> I called them back and said that I would pay for any new parts, and labor
> to switch parts from my old bike and build on new frame.
>
> How is that for 100% customer satisfaction?
>
>
>
>
>

[SMS]

Frank Drackman wrote:

> I called them back and said that I would pay for any new parts, and labor to
> switch parts from my old bike and build on new frame.

I understand why you did that, but I think it's being a bit too noble.

Had the frame not broken, you would not be out any money at all. It's
not taking advantage of REI to accept their offer to make you whole
again. Now if you wanted to upgrade or replace parts that _could_
otherwise be re-used from your old bicycle, than of course you'd be
expected to pay.

When I go to Sears to get a replacement ratchet after 20 years I feel no
guilt. They were the ones that offered the lifetime warranty, and I'm
not doing anything wrong by asking them to honor it, and they honor it
without hesitation. In fact the warranty is probably the reason I paid
more for the Craftsman tool in the first place, since in reality the
quality isn't all that great and everyone knows that it will eventually
break.

[ilaboo]

i stopped using rei when they started having ecotours to some places that
humans have no business going- we are to distructive and you know it -sierra
club does the same thing

rei service is however great

peter
"Frank Drackman" <frankdrack@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:LJidnRDOhIyaNr3anZ2dnUVZ_v6rnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:471e10b5$0$79871$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>> Frank Drackman wrote:
>>> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:471d8438$0$79904$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>>>> Frank Drackman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think that I learned today that the bike department sales floor is a
>>>>> different profit center than the bike repair shop and that the
>>>>> employees are not well versed in the policies, products, and
>>>>> procedures of both.
>>>> Yeah, I think that they may lease out the ski shop and bicycle shop in
>>>> terms of repairs, assembly, etc., but I'm not sure about this.
>>>>
>>>> They've had a lifetime warranty on frames for a long time. They
>>>> probably don't even know when it started. They do keep old catalogs
>>>> though probably not for 13-14 years.
>>>>
>>>> I once asked them about a jacket I had bought there, the first
>>>> generation Gore-Tex that never really worked. It must have been at
>>>> least seven years old. They gave me full credit towards a new jacket.
>>>>
>>>> It's problematic about frame warranties, since they obviously can't
>>>> replace just the frame on a 14 year old bicycle with a new one that
>>>> will work with all the old components, unless they keep a stash of old
>>>> frames around.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> The interesting thing about this bike is that they still make it. With
>>> the exception of the stem, all of the parts can switch to a 2007
>>> Randonee frame.
>>
>> So how and where did the frame break? REI probably has frames in their
>> warehouse, as I've ordered spare parts for REI bicycles (bikes I don't
>> actually own) and they keep a large stock of components for their bikes.
>> I've bought several rear racks from them, as they're racks that are of a
>> very good design (see "http://bicycleluggageracks.com/").
>
> Yesterday I received a message from REI about my bike. It was that the
> bike is covered by warranty, they had ordered a new frame, would purchase
> parts that will not switch from my old bike (headset, stem, and front
> derailleur), and move all parts from my bike for free.
>
> I called them back and said that I would pay for any new parts, and labor
> to switch parts from my old bike and build on new frame.
>
> How is that for 100% customer satisfaction?
>
>
>
>
>

[datakoll]

well, I got in late and missed the half price Werner touring Camanos
sale - buy two.

big bro dept.

that feeling something is following you around is off course or on
true now more than ever who were now only a typo lost in the mists.

REI is benign? nice nice? that's what they say-do.

I bought a pair of socks from REI shortly after Noah cast off,
recently gaining mione membership.
Ahhhh but I bought a Garmin 76sx from J&R.
The next mooring, REI sends an email to my Yahoo, a coconspirator of
the first magnitude (me now retarded as speced by the email's tone)
reminding REI gives maybe 10% back of the yearly total spent as a
"dividend"
Holy cow
nice try. J&R was $70 cheaper.

waytogo drackman - buy micro at 54

[Frank Drackman]

"Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in message
news:1193324009.812395.161470@50g2000hsm.googlegro ups.com...
> On Oct 25, 9:43 am, "Frank Drackman" <frankdr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> "SMS" <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:471e10b5$0$79871$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>>
>>
>>
>> > Frank Drackman wrote:
>> >> "SMS" <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote in message
>> >>news:471d8438$0$79904$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>> >>> Frank Drackman wrote:
>>
>> >>>> I think that I learned today that the bike department sales floor is
>> >>>> a
>> >>>> different profit center than the bike repair shop and that the
>> >>>> employees are not well versed in the policies, products, and
>> >>>> procedures
>> >>>> of both.
>> >>> Yeah, I think that they may lease out the ski shop and bicycle shop
>> >>> in
>> >>> terms of repairs, assembly, etc., but I'm not sure about this.
>>
>> >>> They've had a lifetime warranty on frames for a long time. They
>> >>> probably
>> >>> don't even know when it started. They do keep old catalogs though
>> >>> probably not for 13-14 years.
>>
>> >>> I once asked them about a jacket I had bought there, the first
>> >>> generation Gore-Tex that never really worked. It must have been at
>> >>> least
>> >>> seven years old. They gave me full credit towards a new jacket.
>>
>> >>> It's problematic about frame warranties, since they obviously can't
>> >>> replace just the frame on a 14 year old bicycle with a new one that
>> >>> will
>> >>> work with all the old components, unless they keep a stash of old
>> >>> frames
>> >>> around.
>>
>> >> The interesting thing about this bike is that they still make it.
>> >> With
>> >> the exception of the stem, all of the parts can switch to a 2007
>> >> Randonee
>> >> frame.
>>
>> > So how and where did the frame break? REI probably has frames in their
>> > warehouse, as I've ordered spare parts for REI bicycles (bikes I don't
>> > actually own) and they keep a large stock of components for their
>> > bikes.
>> > I've bought several rear racks from them, as they're racks that are of
>> > a
>> > very good design (see "http://bicycleluggageracks.com/").
>>
>> Yesterday I received a message from REI about my bike. It was that the
>> bike
>> is covered by warranty, they had ordered a new frame, would purchase
>> parts
>> that will not switch from my old bike (headset, stem, and front
>> derailleur),
>> and move all parts from my bike for free.
>>
>> I called them back and said that I would pay for any new parts, and labor
>> to
>> switch parts from my old bike and build on new frame.
>>
>> How is that for 100% customer satisfaction?
>
> Very impressive, and a great reason for strongly considering the
> Novara brand! No weaseling about "normal wear and tear", etc. REI just
> stepped up and delivered. Who could ask for more?
>
I was very impressed!

[datakoll]

NEXT? Drackman squashed by bus

[Michael Press]

In article <fby5j.9032$T41.18@trndny01>,
"ilaboo" <plener2@verizon.net> the top posting troll wrote:

[...]

--
Michael Press

[Tom Sherman]

ilaboo aka Peter Lener wrote:
> i stopped using rei when they started having ecotours to some places that
> humans have no business going- we are to distructive and you know it -sierra
> club does the same thing
>
> rei service is however great

Does REI offer replacement "Shift" keys?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter