Touring & short reach levers

[sneakers563@yahoo.com]

So, I'm building a bike for loaded touring and I've been planning on
using Cane Creek SCR-5c's with low profile cantis. However, after
reading Sheldon Brown's article on cantilever geometry, now I'm not
sure if that's such a good idea. I'm supposing that brakes with high
mechanical advantage would be best for loaded descents. However, my
understanding is that high mechanical advantage means long lever
travel and I'm worried that the shorter distance from the levers to
the bar might make effective braking difficult if the bike is really
loaded up. I understand I can adjust the mechanical advantage, but
it seems that would reduce the braking effectiveness as well.
Anyone have an opinion on this? Should I go with the long reach
levers instead? Am I overthinking this?

[daveornee]

sneakers563@yahoo.com Wrote:
> So, I'm building a bike for loaded touring and I've been planning on
> using Cane Creek SCR-5c's with low profile cantis. However, after
> reading Sheldon Brown's article on cantilever geometry, now I'm not
> sure if that's such a good idea. I'm supposing that brakes with high
> mechanical advantage would be best for loaded descents. However, my
> understanding is that high mechanical advantage means long lever
> travel and I'm worried that the shorter distance from the levers to
> the bar might make effective braking difficult if the bike is really
> loaded up. I understand I can adjust the mechanical advantage, but
> it seems that would reduce the braking effectiveness as well.
> Anyone have an opinion on this? Should I go with the long reach
> levers instead? Am I overthinking this?
Nice levers especially for small hands. I think you will be fine.
Make sure that you have good cables, good housings, good housing ends
(steel), good cable routing, good brake shoes, good alignment, good
adjustment, and ability to adjust easily as the pads wear.


--
daveornee

[Michael Press]

In article
<ab39f9c1-6e2d-469c-b03e-1d3807667af4@p69g2000hsa.googl
egroups.com>,
sneakers563@yahoo.com wrote:

> So, I'm building a bike for loaded touring and I've been planning on
> using Cane Creek SCR-5c's with low profile cantis. However, after
> reading Sheldon Brown's article on cantilever geometry, now I'm not
> sure if that's such a good idea. I'm supposing that brakes with high
> mechanical advantage would be best for loaded descents. However, my
> understanding is that high mechanical advantage means long lever
> travel and I'm worried that the shorter distance from the levers to
> the bar might make effective braking difficult if the bike is really
> loaded up. I understand I can adjust the mechanical advantage, but
> it seems that would reduce the braking effectiveness as well.
> Anyone have an opinion on this? Should I go with the long reach
> levers instead? Am I overthinking this?

I cannot recommend brakes.
Continuous braking on long descents pumps heat into
the tires. Best to sit well up an use the wind for
continuous braking.

Also: Let your speed increase with no braking,
then brake heavily (but safely!) to low speed,
then brakes off and coast to higher speed, allowing
the rims to cool in the wind.

Use the rear brake as heavily as possible during
braking.

--
Michael Press

[BobT]

<sneakers563@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ab39f9c1-6e2d-469c-b03e-1d3807667af4@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> So, I'm building a bike for loaded touring and I've been planning on
> using Cane Creek SCR-5c's with low profile cantis. However, after
> reading Sheldon Brown's article on cantilever geometry, now I'm not
> sure if that's such a good idea. I'm supposing that brakes with high
> mechanical advantage would be best for loaded descents. However, my
> understanding is that high mechanical advantage means long lever
> travel and I'm worried that the shorter distance from the levers to
> the bar might make effective braking difficult if the bike is really
> loaded up. I understand I can adjust the mechanical advantage, but
> it seems that would reduce the braking effectiveness as well.
> Anyone have an opinion on this? Should I go with the long reach
> levers instead? Am I overthinking this?

I have just this setup on my bike for loaded touring - Cane Creek SCR-5C
compact levers and Shimano BR-R550 Cantilever brakes. The other components
of the braking system are Kool-Stop green "ceramic" pads for the front Mavic
EX721 ceramic coated rim and Kool-Stop salmon "extreme condition" pads for
the rear Mavic D521 non-ceramic coated rim.

My bike, my loaded panniers, and I weigh over 300 pounds. I've had no
problems descending mountain passes in southwestern Colorado with this setup
even when it is raining. Sometimes on long mountain descents my fingers
tire when braking from the top of the hoods. Moving my hands to the drops
and squeezing the levers closer to their tips provides ample braking power
without much finger pressure. For more routine use around town, I routinely
brake from the top of the hoods without any problem at all.

In my opinion, this is the ideal setup for loaded touring if you want drop
bars. The Cane Creek compact levers fit my small hands well. I had to add
the Specialized wedges to the Ultegra STI levers on my road racing bike to
make the brake lever reach comfortable.

BobT

[Sheldon Brown]

Someone wrote:
> So, I'm building a bike for loaded touring and I've been planning on
> using Cane Creek SCR-5c's with low profile cantis. However, after
> readingSheldonBrown's article on cantilever geometry, now I'm not
> sure if that's such a good idea.

I'm very sorry if my article gave you that impression. Maybe I need
to revise it. The Cane Creek/Tektro levers are my very favorite drop
bar levers, though I have very long fingers, so I haven't needed the
compact version.

The differences in mechanical advantage among non-"v-type" brake
levers are so trivial as to be insignificant, especially when
contrasted with the greatly improved ergonomics of modern levers such
as the Cane Creek/Tektro or Shimano 400s.

The only issue with the short reach version is that you need to make a
bit more of an effort to ensure that your wheels are true.

Sheldon "CC/T" Brown
Plantation, Florida
+----------------------------------------+
| If you ride at night without lights |
| You are liable to be eaten by a grue. |
+----------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com
Useful articles about bicycles and cycling
http://sheldonbrown.com

[David L. Johnson]

sneakers563@yahoo.com wrote:
> So, I'm building a bike for loaded touring and I've been planning on
> using Cane Creek SCR-5c's with low profile cantis. However, after
> reading Sheldon Brown's article on cantilever geometry, now I'm not
> sure if that's such a good idea. I'm supposing that brakes with high
> mechanical advantage would be best for loaded descents.

The theory sounds good, but the practice is not so good. What you want
is not always more mechanical advantage, but enough. You have to
balance that against lever travel and other issues.

In my experience, caliper brakes have plenty of mechanical advantage to
allow me to stop any bike, no matter how loaded. More braking power
would just let you lock up the front wheel, which will send you over the
bars, or the rear (this is of course easy to do).

Cantilever brakes, along with v-brakes, have the additional disadvantage
of a poor angle of pad motion, nearly 45 degrees to the rim rather than
perpendicular to the rim. Yes, the pad can be set parallel to the rim,
but its angle of motion is determined by the placement of the pivot,
which is on the fork blade, below the rim. At the least this means that
you will have to be careful to adjust the pads as they wear so that they
contact the rim at the right height.

The only real advantage of canti brakes is that they allow you to use a
larger tire, and fenders, if your frame has enough room.

--

David L. Johnson

As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not
certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
-- Albert Einstein

[daveornee]

Sheldon Brown Wrote:
> Someone wrote:
> > So, I'm building a bike for loaded touring and I've been planning on
> > using Cane Creek SCR-5c's with low profile cantis. However, after
> > readingSheldonBrown's article on cantilever geometry, now I'm not
> > sure if that's such a good idea.
>
> I'm very sorry if my article gave you that impression. Maybe I need
> to revise it. The Cane Creek/Tektro levers are my very favorite drop
> bar levers, though I have very long fingers, so I haven't needed the
> compact version.
>
> The differences in mechanical advantage among non-"v-type" brake
> levers are so trivial as to be insignificant, especially when
> contrasted with the greatly improved ergonomics of modern levers such
> as the Cane Creek/Tektro or Shimano 400s.
>
> The only issue with the short reach version is that you need to make a
> bit more of an effort to ensure that your wheels are true.
>
> Sheldon "CC/T" Brown
> Plantation, Florida
> +----------------------------------------+
> | If you ride at night without lights |
> | You are liable to be eaten by a grue. |
> +----------------------------------------+
> Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
> Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
> http://harriscyclery.com
> Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
> http://captainbike.com
> Useful articles about bicycles and cycling
> http://sheldonbrown.com
Good on you Sheldon. Are you a "snow bird" now???
A revision of your fine article might be nice, along with an
explanation on how getting wheels that are more precisely trued allows
the whole system to "work better". I know that the effors I spent
getting my rear tandem wheel more precise paid off in allowing the pads
to be set closer and made the housing compression & stretching cable
much less of an issue.
Tenths of a milimeter do matter! (Fractional turns of spoke nipples
less than 90 degress matter, just like getting the cones adjusted for
proper bearing pre-load.)
Happy Thanksgiving


--
daveornee

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <daveornee.30gqxo@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com>,
daveornee <daveornee.30gqxo@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:

> Sheldon Brown Wrote:
> > Someone wrote:
> > > So, I'm building a bike for loaded touring and I've been planning on
> > > using Cane Creek SCR-5c's with low profile cantis. However, after
> > > readingSheldonBrown's article on cantilever geometry, now I'm not
> > > sure if that's such a good idea.
> >
> > I'm very sorry if my article gave you that impression. Maybe I need
> > to revise it. The Cane Creek/Tektro levers are my very favorite drop
> > bar levers, though I have very long fingers, so I haven't needed the
> > compact version.
> >
> > The differences in mechanical advantage among non-"v-type" brake
> > levers are so trivial as to be insignificant, especially when
> > contrasted with the greatly improved ergonomics of modern levers such
> > as the Cane Creek/Tektro or Shimano 400s.
> >
> > The only issue with the short reach version is that you need to make a
> > bit more of an effort to ensure that your wheels are true.
> >
> > Sheldon "CC/T" Brown
> > Plantation, Florida
> > +----------------------------------------+
> > | If you ride at night without lights |
> > | You are liable to be eaten by a grue. |
> > +----------------------------------------+
> > Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
> > Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
> > http://harriscyclery.com
> > Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
> > http://captainbike.com
> > Useful articles about bicycles and cycling
> > http://sheldonbrown.com
> Good on you Sheldon. Are you a "snow bird" now???
> A revision of your fine article might be nice, along with an
> explanation on how getting wheels that are more precisely trued allows
> the whole system to "work better". I know that the effors I spent
> getting my rear tandem wheel more precise paid off in allowing the pads
> to be set closer and made the housing compression & stretching cable
> much less of an issue.
> Tenths of a milimeter do matter! (Fractional turns of spoke nipples
> less than 90 degress matter, just like getting the cones adjusted for
> proper bearing pre-load.)
> Happy Thanksgiving

Nah, I bet he just found out that Florida is really flat, and thus lots
of fun on the Greenspeed.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing