An interesting item...

[Ozark Bicycle]

Useful innovation or gimmick or......?

http://www.myzigo.com/

[Tom Sherman]

Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> Useful innovation or gimmick or......?
>
> http://www.myzigo.com/

In Mode 1 (upright tricycle with child carrier in front), it would
appear to be "interesting" to ride. With the weight of immature hominid
cargo ahead of the front axle, lifting the rear wheel should be possible
with relatively low braking forces. Maybe the little wheels on the
"child pod" should be left extended to prevent excessive forward rotation?

Secondly, like all upright tricycles, rapid changes in direction are to
be avoided unless one enjoys tipping over.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

[landotter]

On Nov 22, 5:34 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> Useful innovation or gimmick or......?
>
> http://www.myzigo.com/

"Eat your broccoli, or I'll use you as a crumple zone!"

Spec is OK, but I'd rather it was just a two wheeler in bike mode like
those cargo fiets in Holland.

[Marcus Coles]

Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> Useful innovation or gimmick or......?
>
> http://www.myzigo.com/

For a bicycle rider won't this steer backwards?
As in reverse countersteer.

I know in the UK they have adult tricycle races, one way of getting the
family involved I guess.

[Jeff]

"Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in message
news:8fb62c0f-4767-4012-a84d-545612f4fc63@f3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Useful innovation or gimmick or......?
>
> http://www.myzigo.com/

I'm not sure what the benefit would be over a standard trailer, but I can
see many drawbacks.

My trailer will stay upright regardless of whether the bike falls over. I
can use my trailer on any bike and can detatch it quickly.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Werehatrack]

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 17:55:04 -0600, Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> may have said:

>Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>> Useful innovation or gimmick or......?
>>
>> http://www.myzigo.com/
>
>In Mode 1 (upright tricycle with child carrier in front), it would
>appear to be "interesting" to ride. With the weight of immature hominid
>cargo ahead of the front axle, lifting the rear wheel should be possible
>with relatively low braking forces. Maybe the little wheels on the
>"child pod" should be left extended to prevent excessive forward rotation?
>
>Secondly, like all upright tricycles, rapid changes in direction are to
>be avoided unless one enjoys tipping over.

Noting the very small steering deflection angle allowed by the close
proximity of the wheels to the sides of the front compartment, it
appears that they've engineered in a limiter to the turn radius of
this device in tricycle mode. This probably reduces the tendency to
fall over in turns somewhat, but also limits the maneuverability of
the unit to a degree that I would find hard to live with.

My impression: Gimmick. I find this to be the case with a lot of
products that try to cram too many functions into one device. I'm
much more fond of the idea of tools that do one thing really well.


--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

[Chalo]

landotter wrote:
>
> Spec is OK, but I'd rather it was just a two wheeler in bike mode like
> those cargo fiets in Holland.

Butbutbut-- any non-cyclist knows that trikes are safer and more
stable than bikes! Just ask anyone.

Chalo

[Werehatrack]

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 22:02:25 -0500, Marcus Coles <marcoles@ody.ca> may
have said:

>Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>> Useful innovation or gimmick or......?
>>
>> http://www.myzigo.com/
>
>For a bicycle rider won't this steer backwards?
>As in reverse countersteer.
>
>I know in the UK they have adult tricycle races, one way of getting the
>family involved I guess.

It steers like a tadpole, not a hot dog wagon. For that matter, it is
a tadpole. Just not a recumbent.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

[landotter]

On Nov 23, 4:42 am, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
> landotter wrote:
>
> > Spec is OK, but I'd rather it was just a two wheeler in bike mode like
> > those cargo fiets in Holland.
>
> Butbutbut-- any non-cyclist knows that trikes are safer and more
> stable than bikes! Just ask anyone.

Cha, right I remember the time I totally faced while doing a
trackstand on my Radio Flyer fixie!

http://www.radioflyer.com/trikes/trikes_34.html

[Tom Sherman]

Chalo Colina wrote:
> landotter wrote:
>> Spec is OK, but I'd rather it was just a two wheeler in bike mode like
>> those cargo fiets in Holland.
>
> Butbutbut-- any non-cyclist knows that trikes are safer and more
> stable than bikes! Just ask anyone.

Based on the trikes I have ridden, design of the front end on a tadpole
is NOT trivial. Low center of gravity (combined rider and trike) is also
critical unless one severely restricts how the trike is ridden.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

[Chalo]

Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> ChaloColina wrote:
> >
> > landotter wrote:
> >>
> >> Spec is OK, but I'd rather it was just a two wheeler in bike mode like
> >> those cargo fiets in Holland.
> >
> > Butbutbut-- any non-cyclist knows that trikes are safer and more
> > stable than bikes! Just ask anyone.
>
> Based on the trikes I have ridden, design of the front end on a tadpole
> is NOT trivial. Low center of gravity (combined rider and trike) is also
> critical unless one severely restricts how the trike is ridden.

I think you might have missed my point, which was this: Most folks
who have never tried one assume that trikes are easier and safer than
bikes. But the best way to determine that two-wheelers are generally
safer and more pleasant to ride than three-wheelers is to ride a three-
wheeler. It doesn't really matter what kind.

Chalo

[Tom Sherman]

Chalo Colina wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Chalo Colina wrote:
>>> landotter wrote:
>>>> Spec is OK, but I'd rather it was just a two wheeler in bike mode like
>>>> those cargo fiets in Holland.
>>>
>>> Butbutbut-- any non-cyclist knows that trikes are safer and more
>>> stable than bikes! Just ask anyone.
>>
>> Based on the trikes I have ridden, design of the front end on a tadpole
>> is NOT trivial. Low center of gravity (combined rider and trike) is also
>> critical unless one severely restricts how the trike is ridden.
>
> I think you might have missed my point, which was this: Most folks
> who have never tried one assume that trikes are easier and safer than
> bikes. But the best way to determine that two-wheelers are generally
> safer and more pleasant to ride than three-wheelers is to ride a three-
> wheeler. It doesn't really matter what kind.
>
Utter nonsense. The real problem with good tadpole recumbent trikes is
the damage they will do to one's checking account balance. I was lucky
to get a good one at a reasonably low price (eBay "Buy it Now"):
<http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2287/1940446684_1a8852b1ed.jpg?v=0>.

Ridden in a non insane manner, tipping over and injuring one's self on a
proper tadpole is almost impossible. The same can not be said of
bicycles, even upright road bicycles with highly experienced and skilled
riders: <http://yarchive.net/bike/hip_break.html>. The trike allows one
to ignore minor road hazards that can easily dump a single-track
vehicle. This is fun and relaxing in a way that needs to be experienced.

Of course, if one is Chalo's size, a custom trike would be in order,
which is even more pricey. Greenspeed has built custom trike for riders
that are either taller or heavier than Chalo.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

[A Muzi]

>>> landotter wrote:
>>>> Spec is OK, but I'd rather it was just a two wheeler in bike mode like
>>>> those cargo fiets in Holland.

>> ChaloColina wrote:
>>> Butbutbut-- any non-cyclist knows that trikes are safer and more
>>> stable than bikes! Just ask anyone.

> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Based on the trikes I have ridden, design of the front end on a tadpole
>> is NOT trivial. Low center of gravity (combined rider and trike) is also
>> critical unless one severely restricts how the trike is ridden.

Chalo wrote:
> I think you might have missed my point, which was this: Most folks
> who have never tried one assume that trikes are easier and safer than
> bikes. But the best way to determine that two-wheelers are generally
> safer and more pleasant to ride than three-wheelers is to ride a three-
> wheeler. It doesn't really matter what kind.

Tricycles are, and I quote, "Ideal for Spastics":

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/HWTRIKE.JPG

from:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/holdsw.html
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Chalo]

Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> ChaloColina wrote:
> >
> > Most folks
> > who have never tried one assume that trikes are easier and safer than
> > bikes. But the best way to determine that two-wheelers are generally
> > safer and more pleasant to ride than three-wheelers is to ride a three-
> > wheeler. It doesn't really matter what kind.
>
> Utter nonsense. The real problem with good tadpole recumbent trikes is
> the damage they will do to one's checking account balance.

You are right, inasmuch as butt-dragging-on-the-ground bikes are worse
than butt-dragging-on-the-ground trikes. But I was generalizing about
regular bikes and trikes, not Rhoades Cars, mechanic's creepers, Big
Wheels, Green Machines, KMX Karts, street luges, Windcheetahs, or
other such toys.

Any cycle that high-centers when rolling off an ordinary curb can't be
considered roadworthy, to my way of thinking anyway.

Chalo

[Tom Sherman]

Andrew Muzi wrote:
>>>> landotter wrote:
>>>>> Spec is OK, but I'd rather it was just a two wheeler in bike mode like
>>>>> those cargo fiets in Holland.
>
>>> ChaloColina wrote:
>>>> Butbutbut-- any non-cyclist knows that trikes are safer and more
>>>> stable than bikes! Just ask anyone.
>
>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>> Based on the trikes I have ridden, design of the front end on a tadpole
>>> is NOT trivial. Low center of gravity (combined rider and trike) is also
>>> critical unless one severely restricts how the trike is ridden.
>
> Chalo wrote:
>> I think you might have missed my point, which was this: Most folks
>> who have never tried one assume that trikes are easier and safer than
>> bikes. But the best way to determine that two-wheelers are generally
>> safer and more pleasant to ride than three-wheelers is to ride a three-
>> wheeler. It doesn't really matter what kind.
>
> Tricycles are, and I quote, "Ideal for Spastics":
>
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/HWTRIKE.JPG
>
> from:
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/holdsw.html

Trikes are an area where recumbents are decidedly superior to uprights
in every important aspect. :)

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

[Chalo]

A Muzi wrote:
>
> Tricycles are, and I quote, "Ideal for Spastics":
>
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/HWTRIKE.JPG
>
> from:http://www.yellowjersey.org/holdsw.html

We need to find some marketing materials that tell us what kind of
folks 'bents are ideal for!

http://billrobinsonmusic.com/Tricruiser4.jpg

Chalo

[Chalo]

Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> Trikes are an area where recumbents are decidedly superior to uprights
> in every important aspect. :)

Save one-- carrying loads. Which for most of us is the only practical
reason to have a trike, no?

Chalo

[Tom Sherman]

Chalo Colina wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Chalo Colina wrote:
>>>
>>> Most folks
>>> who have never tried one assume that trikes are easier and safer than
>>> bikes. But the best way to determine that two-wheelers are generally
>>> safer and more pleasant to ride than three-wheelers is to ride a three-
>>> wheeler. It doesn't really matter what kind.
>>
>> Utter nonsense. The real problem with good tadpole recumbent trikes is
>> the damage they will do to one's checking account balance.
>
> You are right, inasmuch as butt-dragging-on-the-ground bikes are worse
> than butt-dragging-on-the-ground trikes. But I was generalizing about
> regular bikes and trikes, not Rhoades Cars, mechanic's creepers, Big
> Wheels, Green Machines, KMX Karts, street luges, Windcheetahs, or
> other such toys.

While upright bicycles outsell upright recumbents by about 99 to 1 in
the quality bicycle market, I suspect the ratio is much smaller in the
quality trike market. Quality upright trikes are quite rare - I have
seen many more recumbent trikes in real life than upright adult trikes.

The Windcheetah [1] is not a toy in the way the other mentioned items
are, but a trike that can be used for distance riding, HPV racing and
commuting. Until recently (when sold off), the manufacturer's main
business was working quads [2]. The Windcheetah even holds the speed
record for the Land's End to John o'Groats ride [3].

> Any cycle that high-centers when rolling off an ordinary curb can't be
> considered roadworthy, to my way of thinking anyway.

I can ride all my recumbents off normal (less than 15 cm high) curbs.
However, I prefer to practice vehicular cycling, so curb hopping is not
much of a concern. (For me, going up curbs is not an issue, since I
generally crash when trying to do so on an upright bicycle.)

[1] <http://www.windcheetah.co.uk/>.
[2] <http://www.work-bikes.de/avd/index2.htm>.
[3] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land's_End_to_John_o'_Groats>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

[Tom Sherman]

Chalo Colina wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Trikes are an area where recumbents are decidedly superior to uprights
>> in every important aspect. :)
>
> Save one-- carrying loads.

Not so:
<http://www.organicengines.com/products/the-sensible-utility-vehicle-aka-the-suv/>.

Where is an upright trike that can exceed the SUV for cargo capacity?

> Which for most of us is the only practical reason to have a trike, no?

Trikes are excellent for riding for fun, touring and commuting (with
proper parking). The only places where trikes have a real disadvantage
are cost and getting up and down stairs and through doorways.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fi7psl$eru$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> Chalo Colina wrote:
>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>> Trikes are an area where recumbents are decidedly superior to uprights
>>> in every important aspect. :)
>>
>> Save one-- carrying loads.
>
> Not so:
> <http://www.organicengines.com/products/the-sensible-utility-vehicle-aka-the-suv/>.
>
> Where is an upright trike that can exceed the SUV for cargo capacity?
>
>> Which for most of us is the only practical reason to have a trike, no?

An upright trike with a basket in the rear is ideal for carrying heavy loads
short distances (like groceries for instance). I have been doing this now
for over 30 years. Just make sure it is a 3-speed.

> Trikes are excellent for riding for fun, touring and commuting (with
> proper parking). The only places where trikes have a real disadvantage are
> cost and getting up and down stairs and through doorways.

Upright trikes are NOT ideal for anything other than carrying heavy loads
short distances. Recumbent trikes also are NOT ideal for touring or for
commuting, but they can be a lot of fun around town on safe roads. I have
never known a trike commuter or tourer who did not turn out to be a jerk!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Chalo]

Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> Chalo Colina wrote:
> >
> > Tom Sherman wrote:
> >>
> >> Trikes are an area where recumbents are decidedly superior to uprights
> >> in every important aspect. :)
>
> > Save one-- carrying loads.
>
> Not so:
> <http://www.organicengines.com/products/the-sensible-utility-vehicle-a...>.
>
> Where is an upright trike that can exceed the SUV for cargo capacity?

I just helped build one. I'll get back to you on that when I have a
picture. It has a five-foot long front bed, plus a normal Worksman
Adaptable rear load platform. You can stack it up high and still see
over your load. :^)

Sea also:

http://www.cyclesmaximus.com/cargotrike.htm
(for a twist on the usual upright/recumbent comparison, it's a _lot_
more expensive than the OE SUV.)

http://pedicab.com/pedicabs_pickup.html

http://workcycles.com/workbike/bicycles/professional-worktrikes/workbike-classic-dutch-large.html

Chalo

[Tom Sherman]

Chalo Colina wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Chalo Colina wrote:
>>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>>> Trikes are an area where recumbents are decidedly superior to uprights
>>>> in every important aspect. :)
>>> Save one-- carrying loads.
>> Not so:
>> <http://www.organicengines.com/products/the-sensible-utility-vehicle-a...>.
>>
>> Where is an upright trike that can exceed the SUV for cargo capacity?
>
> I just helped build one. I'll get back to you on that when I have a
> picture. It has a five-foot long front bed, plus a normal Worksman
> Adaptable rear load platform. You can stack it up high and still see
> over your load. :^)
>
> Sea also:

Channeling gene?

> http://www.cyclesmaximus.com/cargotrike.htm
> (for a twist on the usual upright/recumbent comparison, it's a _lot_
> more expensive than the OE SUV.)

The OE SUV appears to be a bargain compared to the other trikes.

> http://pedicab.com/pedicabs_pickup.html
>
> http://workcycles.com/workbike/bicycles/professional-worktrikes/workbike-classic-dutch-large.html

Based on the pictures, the trikes in the above three links look to have
similar volume capacity to the SUV - I would need to see specifications
to rank the four by that category.

The Maximus does have a slightly greater cargo weight capacity (250
kgf), the Henry the most (300 kgf), compared to the SUV (225 kgf) [1]
while the weight capacity of the Main Street is unknown.

It would be fun to have all four work trikes in one place to compare
handling and general ease of use.

[1] However the SUV has a combined rider plus cargo capacity of 340 kgf,
while the others do not list rider capacity. However, they look to be
"Chalo" sturdy.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

[Chalo]

Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> Chalo Colina wrote:
> >
> > Sea also:
>
> Channeling gene?

Evidently so.

> >http://www.cyclesmaximus.com/cargotrike.htm
> > (for a twist on the usual upright/recumbent comparison, it's a _lot_
> > more expensive than the OE SUV.)
>
> The OE SUV appears to be a bargain compared to the other trikes.

I wonder how they do it? Even Jan Van der Tuin's similar Tri-Hauler--
which is a nice piece of work, but not the least bit fancy-- costs a
grand more than the OE SUV. I know Jan's not raking in fat margins on
his bikes.

http://www.catoregon.org/hpm/trihauler.htm

Chalo

[Hank Wirtz]

On Nov 23, 10:37 pm, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> > Chalo Colina wrote:
>
> > > Sea also:
>
> > Channeling gene?
>
> Evidently so.
>
> > >http://www.cyclesmaximus.com/cargotrike.htm
> > > (for a twist on the usual upright/recumbent comparison, it's a _lot_
> > > more expensive than the OE SUV.)
>
> > The OE SUV appears to be a bargain compared to the other trikes.
>
> I wonder how they do it?

It looks like they use something like a Cruzbike conversion kit for
the front end. That might help.

[Tom Sherman]

Chalo Colina wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Chalo Colina wrote:
>>> Sea also:
>> Channeling gene?
>
> Evidently so.
>
>>> http://www.cyclesmaximus.com/cargotrike.htm
>>> (for a twist on the usual upright/recumbent comparison, it's a _lot_
>>> more expensive than the OE SUV.)
>> The OE SUV appears to be a bargain compared to the other trikes.
>
> I wonder how they do it? Even Jan Van der Tuin's similar Tri-Hauler--
> which is a nice piece of work, but not the least bit fancy-- costs a
> grand more than the OE SUV. I know Jan's not raking in fat margins on
> his bikes.
>
> http://www.catoregon.org/hpm/trihauler.htm

I think "he" (Dan Kavanaugh) is closer to accurate than "they" regarding
Organic Engines. I imagine the low prices result from a combination of
low overhead and low profit margins. The other HPVs (hominid powered
vehicles) from Organic Engines have always been competitively priced.

OT Rant: The world (and in particular the (U$A)would be a much better
place if people supported small manufacturers who care about what they
are doing, rather than accumulating as much mass produced crap as
possible, and storing it in a large, but poorly built, cookie-cutter
"McMansion".

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

[Tim McNamara]

In article <fi96i2$v4d$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

> OT Rant: The world (and in particular the (U$A)would be a much better
> place if people supported small manufacturers who care about what
> they are doing, rather than accumulating as much mass produced crap
> as possible, and storing it in a large, but poorly built,
> cookie-cutter "McMansion".

Whomever dies with the most toys wins. It's in the Bible, right next to
the part about low taxes and limited government.