Changing flats in cold weather

[Javier]

I'd like to keep riding my bike during the winter but I'm concerned
that if I get a flat I may not be able to repair it on the road and
have to deal with a nice long walk home. I run Bontrager HardCase
tires year round and have yet to get a flat. However, I know that
flats are inevitable. Are there any specific winter tips for fixing
flats in cold weather (24-30 degrees)? These Hard Cases tend to be
rather stiff tires to get back on the wheel.

Thanks,

Javier

[Eggs Ackley]

I don't fix 'em on the road. I use Airlock tire sealant in my tires,
and CO2 cartridges to pump em up (multiple times if necessary) until I
get home.

[cyclingthings@gmail.com]

On Nov 23, 9:28 am, Javier <roj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd like to keep riding my bike during the winter but I'm concerned
> that if I get a flat I may not be able to repair it on the road and
> have to deal with a nice long walk home. I run Bontrager HardCase
> tires year round and have yet to get a flat. However, I know that
> flats are inevitable. Are there any specific winter tips for fixing
> flats in cold weather (24-30 degrees)? These Hard Cases tend to be
> rather stiff tires to get back on the wheel.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Javier
just be careful where you ride, if you pass a salty area, ride fro 100
yards with your gloves rubbing the top of the wheel to remove any
pointy or sharp material from the wheels. also underinflate the tires
by 5% so they are a little softer, you are not going to go super fast
anyway, it is wintertime
carlos
www.bikingthings.com
ride fast, get fit, be happy

[limeylew@gmail.com]

On Nov 23, 8:28 am, Javier <roj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd like to keep riding my bike during the winter but I'm concerned
> that if I get a flat I may not be able to repair it on the road and
> have to deal with a nice long walk home. I run Bontrager HardCase
> tires year round and have yet to get a flat. However, I know that
> flats are inevitable. Are there any specific winter tips for fixing
> flats in cold weather (24-30 degrees)? These Hard Cases tend to be
> rather stiff tires to get back on the wheel.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Javier

OK, I'm a 'car-free' person and I don't relish the thought of changing
a flat on ANY brand of tire on a cold day.

My 'Boy Scout' (be prepared) tip is to dress in good gloves, so that
your hands are not cold when you start and to carry one of these tire
tools with you:-

http://tinyurl.com/ynqckj

And NO it is NOT ME that is selling it.

Hope this helps.

Lewis.

*****

[Paul Cassel]

Javier wrote:
> I'd like to keep riding my bike during the winter but I'm concerned
> that if I get a flat I may not be able to repair it on the road and
> have to deal with a nice long walk home. I run Bontrager HardCase
> tires year round and have yet to get a flat. However, I know that
> flats are inevitable. Are there any specific winter tips for fixing
> flats in cold weather (24-30 degrees)? These Hard Cases tend to be
> rather stiff tires to get back on the wheel.
>

My suggestion is to carry a Crank Bros tool and an extra tube rather
than try for a patch. That's my tactic. One day I had two flats and had
to call for a ride home so maybe two tubes. Pretty miserable sitting
there in an open field with the temps at 0 C and a wind blowing.

Winter is a terrible time.

[Werehatrack]

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 06:28:32 -0800 (PST), Javier <rojasj@gmail.com>
may have said:

>I'd like to keep riding my bike during the winter but I'm concerned
>that if I get a flat I may not be able to repair it on the road and
>have to deal with a nice long walk home. I run Bontrager HardCase
>tires year round and have yet to get a flat. However, I know that
>flats are inevitable. Are there any specific winter tips for fixing
>flats in cold weather (24-30 degrees)? These Hard Cases tend to be
>rather stiff tires to get back on the wheel.

IME, it's sometimes easier in cold weather. As in hot weather, carry
a spare tube so that you can patch single-flat failures at home
instead of by the side of the road. If you have to patch on the go,
allow a little more drying time for the solvent-based patch adhesive.
Stiff fingers are more of a problem than stiff tires, at least for me.

Oh, and check your inflation regularly; no sense courting a pinch flat
anytime.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

[Luke]

In article
<fe01735d-d6f4-4087-89d7-7462fd049716@w40g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
Javier <rojasj@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'd like to keep riding my bike during the winter but I'm concerned
> that if I get a flat I may not be able to repair it on the road and
> have to deal with a nice long walk home. I run Bontrager HardCase
> tires year round and have yet to get a flat. However, I know that
> flats are inevitable. Are there any specific winter tips for fixing
> flats in cold weather (24-30 degrees)? These Hard Cases tend to be
> rather stiff tires to get back on the wheel.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Javier

Carry a spare tube; patch the punctured tube at your leisure.

I also pack a cheap set of gloves to circumvent direct skin to metal
contact during the ordeal. Cheap gloves such as cotton mechanic's
gloves [ http://tinyurl.com/26q7tv ] afford enough dexterity to swap
out a tube and maneuver a tire on and off; keep your hands free of
heavy grease/oil; and deter freezing fingers for the duration of the
repair. The gloves are also convenient in all seasons for various types
of repairs.

Have your tools/supplies well organized. Chances are winter's long
nights will find you changing tubes after dark and fumbling for parts
in the freezing gloom won't help. I assume your bike is already
equipped with adequate lighting: this will serve you well when
inspecting the tire casing for the (possibly still embedded) cause of
the flat.

Better to avoid clogging it with slushy wheelspray, if you've a frame
pump mounted along the seattube with its head at the BB, flip it round
so that the pump head resides under the top/seat tube cluster.

More esoterically: if you don't indulge in regular maintenance and your
flats occur on an annual basis, ensure that your QR skewer is well
lubed: learning that it has seized inside the axle while attempting to
service a flat is a PITA; if your tube is of the presta variety and the
valve stem locknut is installed, see to it that the slush/salt doesn't
seize it in place. Or consider doing without it, superfluous as it is.

[Konstantin Shemyak]

On 2007-11-23, Javier <rojasj@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd like to keep riding my bike during the winter but I'm concerned
> that if I get a flat I may not be able to repair it on the road and
> have to deal with a nice long walk home. I run Bontrager HardCase
> tires year round and have yet to get a flat. However, I know that
> flats are inevitable. Are there any specific winter tips for fixing
> flats in cold weather (24-30 degrees)? These Hard Cases tend to be
> rather stiff tires to get back on the wheel.

Depends on personal acclimatization and attitude, but I'd not
say that 24-30 F (-4..-1 C) is a point where you "can't repair"
anything. At such temperature it is even possible to work without
gloves (for a short time, of course). Tyre patches stick worse,
but carrying a spare tube, or two, saves from glueing in the field.

When it gets colder, say to -10 C (10-15 F), working no gloves
may be not a solution any more. Situation-saver is the fact that
at sub-zero temperatures bicycle needs studded tyres. Good
studded tyres are thick and high on their large knobs. I never had a
puncture of those (riding about 4000 km on studs per year for
last five years). And modern studded tyres have also kevlar bead
versions, which are easier to mount/dismount - which just makes
me feel easier.

Changing a tyre at -20 C (-5 F) may be a real challenge, but
judging by your post, this is not a case you are worried about.

Konstantin Shemyak.

[Ted Bennett]

cyclingthings@gmail.com wrote:

> On Nov 23, 9:28 am, Javier <roj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'd like to keep riding my bike during the winter but I'm concerned
> > that if I get a flat I may not be able to repair it on the road and
> > have to deal with a nice long walk home. I run Bontrager HardCase
> > tires year round and have yet to get a flat. However, I know that
> > flats are inevitable. Are there any specific winter tips for fixing
> > flats in cold weather (24-30 degrees)? These Hard Cases tend to be
> > rather stiff tires to get back on the wheel.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Javier
> just be careful where you ride, if you pass a salty area, ride fro 100
> yards with your gloves rubbing the top of the wheel to remove any
> pointy or sharp material from the wheels. also underinflate the tires
> by 5% so they are a little softer, you are not going to go super fast
> anyway, it is wintertime
> carlos
> www.bikingthings.com
> ride fast, get fit, be happy

I have never, ever, had a puncture from salt.

Ted

--
Ted Bennett

[Tom Sherman]

cyclingthings@gmail.com wrote:
>
> just be careful where you ride, if you pass a salty area, ride fro 100
> yards with your gloves rubbing the top of the wheel to remove any
> pointy or sharp material from the wheels....

Jobst versus Sheldon? <http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/wiping.html>

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

[Michael]

cyclingthings@gmail.com wrote:
> just be careful where you ride, if you pass a salty area, ride fro 100
> yards with your gloves rubbing the top of the wheel to remove any
> pointy or sharp material from the wheels. also underinflate the tires
> by 5% so they are a little softer, you are not going to go super fast
> anyway, it is wintertime
> carlos
> www.bikingthings.com
> ride fast, get fit, be happy


WHICH wheel? ;-)

[Andrew Price]

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 09:30:42 -0800 (PST), "limeylew@gmail.com"
<limeylew@gmail.com> wrote:

>My 'Boy Scout' (be prepared) tip is to dress in good gloves, so that
>your hands are not cold when you start and to carry one of these tire
>tools with you:-
>
>http://tinyurl.com/ynqckj

That is an excellent recommendation, especially for anyone needing to
change narrow high pressure road tyres, which can sometimes be real
b*stards to get back on again.

[Tom Sherman]

limeylew@gmail.com aka Lewis Campbell wrote:
> ...
> OK, I'm a 'car-free' person and I don't relish the thought of changing
> a flat on ANY brand of tire on a cold day....

Does it get cold where you live?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 10:13:41 -0800, Ted Bennett
<tedbennett@earthlink.net> wrote:

>cyclingthings@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Nov 23, 9:28 am, Javier <roj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I'd like to keep riding my bike during the winter but I'm concerned
>> > that if I get a flat I may not be able to repair it on the road and
>> > have to deal with a nice long walk home. I run Bontrager HardCase
>> > tires year round and have yet to get a flat. However, I know that
>> > flats are inevitable. Are there any specific winter tips for fixing
>> > flats in cold weather (24-30 degrees)? These Hard Cases tend to be
>> > rather stiff tires to get back on the wheel.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Javier
>> just be careful where you ride, if you pass a salty area, ride fro 100
>> yards with your gloves rubbing the top of the wheel to remove any
>> pointy or sharp material from the wheels. also underinflate the tires
>> by 5% so they are a little softer, you are not going to go super fast
>> anyway, it is wintertime
>> carlos
>> www.bikingthings.com
>> ride fast, get fit, be happy
>
>I have never, ever, had a puncture from salt.
>
>Ted

Dear Ted,

That's because you don't rub it off the top of your wheel and throw it
over your shoulder.

:-)

Some advice should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:03:38 -0700, carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:

>On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 10:13:41 -0800, Ted Bennett
><tedbennett@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>cyclingthings@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Nov 23, 9:28 am, Javier <roj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > I'd like to keep riding my bike during the winter but I'm concerned
>>> > that if I get a flat I may not be able to repair it on the road and
>>> > have to deal with a nice long walk home. I run Bontrager HardCase
>>> > tires year round and have yet to get a flat. However, I know that
>>> > flats are inevitable. Are there any specific winter tips for fixing
>>> > flats in cold weather (24-30 degrees)? These Hard Cases tend to be
>>> > rather stiff tires to get back on the wheel.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> >
>>> > Javier
>>> just be careful where you ride, if you pass a salty area, ride fro 100
>>> yards with your gloves rubbing the top of the wheel to remove any
>>> pointy or sharp material from the wheels. also underinflate the tires
>>> by 5% so they are a little softer, you are not going to go super fast
>>> anyway, it is wintertime
>>> carlos
>>> www.bikingthings.com
>>> ride fast, get fit, be happy
>>
>>I have never, ever, had a puncture from salt.
>>
>>Ted
>
>Dear Ted,
>
>That's because you don't rub it off the top of your wheel and throw it
>over your shoulder.
>
> :-)
>
>Some advice should be taken with a pinch of salt.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Carl Fogel

Drat!

I forgot that a pinch of salt scraped from the tire might prevent a
pinch flat.

:-)

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

[datakoll]

get a can of CRC HD Silicone lube at Woolmort. Clean rig: Spray tube,
inside tire, spray outside bead.
mount tire
lube bead/rim joint with Finish Line teflon wax (be precise) allow to
dry horizontally each side.
wipe down rim braking surface with paint thinner then alcohol removing
FL and CRC. use clean rag sections each try.
spray rim braking surface with CRC rubber belt compound from Dis****
Auto.

[jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org]

Tom Sherman writes:

>> just be careful where you ride, if you pass a salty area, ride fro
>> 100 yards with your gloves rubbing the top of the wheel to remove
>> any pointy or sharp material from the wheels...

> Jobst versus Sheldon? <http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/wiping.html>

You'll notice that the rebuttal closes with "I believe..." where in
contrast the original piece cites reasons why tire wiping is
ineffective. It's part of bicycling religion. Besides, as I
explained, Most flats occur in rear tires and today's bicycles have
the tire close enough to the seat tube to grab the fingers and tear
the nail off if not worse.

Don't do it!

Jobst Brandt

[limeylew@gmail.com]

On Nov 23, 6:48 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
wrote:
> limey...@gmail.com aka Lewis Campbell wrote:
>
> > ...
> > OK, I'm a 'car-free' person and I don't relish the thought of changing
> > a flat on ANY brand of tire on a cold day....
>
> Does it get cold where you live?
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> "Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
> differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
> excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

Well, since you ask, 'I' think it gets cold here.

In the past couple of days we have gone from 85F to 42F. IMHO that is
nearly cold enough to freeze the tail off a brass monkey.

It is, however, great running weather. :-)

Kind regards.

Lewis.

*****

[Rex Kerr]

On 2007-11-24, <jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org> wrote:
> You'll notice that the rebuttal closes with "I believe..." where in
> contrast the original piece cites reasons why tire wiping is
> ineffective. It's part of bicycling religion. Besides, as I
> explained, Most flats occur in rear tires and today's bicycles have
> the tire close enough to the seat tube to grab the fingers and tear
> the nail off if not worse.

I notice that neither the original post nor the rebuttal address the
usage of those wire wipers that you used to find on various bikes. I
remember a long time ago almost all "10 speeds" had them, a piece of
wire that connected to the brake hanger bolt and was bent such that it
continually wiped the face of the tire with a piece of rubber that
went around the wire where it made contact. What happened to those?
They seem to address Jobst's safety and effectiveness concerns since
they work immediately after hitting the hazard, and don't require your
fingers to be anywhere near the seat tube!

[Tom Sherman]

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
> Tom Sherman writes:
>
>>> just be careful where you ride, if you pass a salty area, ride fro
>>> 100 yards with your gloves rubbing the top of the wheel to remove
>>> any pointy or sharp material from the wheels...
>
>> Jobst versus Sheldon? <http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/wiping.html>
>
> You'll notice that the rebuttal closes with "I believe..." where in
> contrast the original piece cites reasons why tire wiping is
> ineffective. It's part of bicycling religion. Besides, as I
> explained, Most flats occur in rear tires and today's bicycles have
> the tire close enough to the seat tube to grab the fingers and tear
> the nail off if not worse.
>
> Don't do it!

I expect that drafting a Pelican [1] would greatly reduce puncture flats.

[1] <http://www.elginsweeper.com/Pelican_1235.asp>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

[Tom Sherman]

limeylew@gmail.com aka Lewis Campbell wrote:
> On Nov 23, 6:48 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> limey...@gmail.com aka Lewis Campbell wrote:
>>
>>> ...
>>> OK, I'm a 'car-free' person and I don't relish the thought of changing
>>> a flat on ANY brand of tire on a cold day....
>> Does it get cold where you live?
>>
> Well, since you ask, 'I' think it gets cold here.

Here in Cheeseland, we had a white Thanksgiving day.

> In the past couple of days we have gone from 85F to 42F. IMHO that is
> nearly cold enough to freeze the tail off a brass monkey.

I did a fall ride on a lowracer with minimal carrying capacity. Knowing
it would warm up considerably and having no room to carry a jacket, I
started off in 10°C (50°F) temperatures in shorts and a short sleeve
jersey, and was not too uncomfortable.

> It is, however, great running weather. :-)

I think it is a matter of acclimation. I remember visiting relatives in
Hawaii in winter, and the locals were shivering in the 20°C (68°F)
weather. Conversely, the Inuit wear shorts and tee shirts in 5°C (41°F)
weather and complain about the heat.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 04:01:35 -0800 (PST), "limeylew@gmail.com"
<limeylew@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Nov 23, 6:48 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
>wrote:
>> limey...@gmail.com aka Lewis Campbell wrote:
>>
>> > ...
>> > OK, I'm a 'car-free' person and I don't relish the thought of changing
>> > a flat on ANY brand of tire on a cold day....
>>
>> Does it get cold where you live?
>>
>> --
>> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
>> "Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
>> differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
>> excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter
>
>Well, since you ask, 'I' think it gets cold here.
>
>In the past couple of days we have gone from 85F to 42F. IMHO that is
>nearly cold enough to freeze the tail off a brass monkey.
>
>It is, however, great running weather. :-)
>
>Kind regards.
>
>Lewis

Dear Lewis,

November 19, sunny and 82F:

http://www.chieftain.com/metro/1195542000/1

November 24, 9F at 4am, sunny and 29F at 10:30am and rising:

http://i11.tinypic.com/8bemiyd.jpg

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Tom Sherman:
>I think it is a matter of acclimation. I remember visiting relatives in
>Hawaii in winter, and the locals were shivering in the 20°C (68°F)
>weather. Conversely, the Inuit wear shorts and tee shirts in 5°C (41°F)
>weather and complain about the heat.

One day in December, when I had been living in Hawaii for about
six years, I was sitting on a bench in this place in Waikiki they
called "The International Marketplace" - wearing a cardigan
sweater and freezing my pasty white butt off.

Tourist guy from some place like Pumphandle, Nebraska sits down
beside me.

I guess he felt a need to say something because his opening
comment was "Sure is hot and muggy here."
--
PeteCresswell

[Luke]

In article <dpogk3t9ebaa9f4qekf4mcr4mi3h8bfk4k@4ax.com>,
<carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote:

> Dear Lewis,
>
> November 19, sunny and 82F:
>
> http://www.chieftain.com/metro/1195542000/1
>


With Canada geese too! Looks like summer in Toronto.

[limeylew@gmail.com]

On Nov 24, 11:50 am, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 04:01:35 -0800 (PST), "limey...@gmail.com"
>
>
>
> <limey...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Nov 23, 6:48 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> >wrote:
> >> limey...@gmail.com aka Lewis Campbell wrote:
>
> >> > ...
> >> > OK, I'm a 'car-free' person and I don't relish the thought of changing
> >> > a flat on ANY brand of tire on a cold day....
>
> >> Does it get cold where you live?
>
> >> --
> >> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> >> "Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
> >> differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
> >> excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter
>
> >Well, since you ask, 'I' think it gets cold here.
>
> >In the past couple of days we have gone from 85F to 42F. IMHO that is
> >nearly cold enough to freeze the tail off a brass monkey.
>
> >It is, however, great running weather. :-)
>
> >Kind regards.
>
> >Lewis
>
> Dear Lewis,
>
> November 19, sunny and 82F:
>
> http://www.chieftain.com/metro/1195542000/1
>
> November 24, 9F at 4am, sunny and 29F at 10:30am and rising:
>
> http://i11.tinypic.com/8bemiyd.jpg
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel

WOW! Snow.

We had a little but it melted almost immediately.

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 01:59:04 +0100 (CET), Rex Kerr <rexkerr@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 2007-11-24, <jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org> wrote:
>> You'll notice that the rebuttal closes with "I believe..." where in
>> contrast the original piece cites reasons why tire wiping is
>> ineffective. It's part of bicycling religion. Besides, as I
>> explained, Most flats occur in rear tires and today's bicycles have
>> the tire close enough to the seat tube to grab the fingers and tear
>> the nail off if not worse.
>
>I notice that neither the original post nor the rebuttal address the
>usage of those wire wipers that you used to find on various bikes. I
>remember a long time ago almost all "10 speeds" had them, a piece of
>wire that connected to the brake hanger bolt and was bent such that it
>continually wiped the face of the tire with a piece of rubber that
>went around the wire where it made contact. What happened to those?
>They seem to address Jobst's safety and effectiveness concerns since
>they work immediately after hitting the hazard, and don't require your
>fingers to be anywhere near the seat tube!

Dear Rex,

Yes, a long time ago wire tire wipers were fairly common.

But they've pretty much vanished--I don't think that any company still
makes them, though you can get them on eBay or make them yourself.

A possible explanation is that they had little actual effect, the
theory being that if a narrow high-pressure tire with about 100 pounds
of weight on it hits something sharp enough to puncture it at 10 to 30
mph, the puncture is immediate and any wiping is closing the barn door
after the horse has escaped.

That is, imagine trying to find a thumb-tack just dull enough to stick
in the tire without puncturing the tube until it's spun around more
than once--given how thin tires are, you're going to have a very
narrow range of thorn-style debris that will even theoretically be
removed in time by wiping.

As for glass and sharp rock chips, the range again is narrow. For a
wiper to work, the debris has to stick far enough into the tire
(without puncturing the tube) to stay embedded, and yet stick out far
enough for a round wire or plastic tube to somehow dig it out as the
tire spins.

Usually, anything that sticks in a tire goes in up to the hilt on the
first impact. Take an inflated tire and a hammer and try to get
something to stick in the tread without puncturing the tube. There
must be a narrow range where the shape, sharpeness, and imact are just
right, but it's a _very_ narrow range.

For example, I experimented with a nail just sticking up out of a vise
to see the effect of inflation on flats. Higher pressure does indeed
make punctures more likely, but the nail tip would have gone right
through the tire on first impact if more than 6 mm of the tip had been
exposed:

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.rec.cycling/msg/7c93e56242f3a16f

Wipers may not stop flats, but they unquestionably scrape impressive
amounts of road dust and mud off the tires.

I tried a home-made wiper on my front tire a while ago, modeled on a
pair that Frank Krygowski gave me for testing. I gave up after a
single ride because the road dust had me coughing my lungs out when I
tucked in on my daily downhill. Along similar lines, Jobst has
mentioned that riders who had tire wipers were easily identified on
his rides because they had so much more dirt on their legs.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

[A Muzi]

> <jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org> wrote:
>> You'll notice that the rebuttal closes with "I believe..." where in
>> contrast the original piece cites reasons why tire wiping is
>> ineffective. It's part of bicycling religion. Besides, as I
>> explained, Most flats occur in rear tires and today's bicycles have
>> the tire close enough to the seat tube to grab the fingers and tear
>> the nail off if not worse.

Rex Kerr wrote:
> I notice that neither the original post nor the rebuttal address the
> usage of those wire wipers that you used to find on various bikes. I
> remember a long time ago almost all "10 speeds" had them, a piece of
> wire that connected to the brake hanger bolt and was bent such that it
> continually wiped the face of the tire with a piece of rubber that
> went around the wire where it made contact. What happened to those?
> They seem to address Jobst's safety and effectiveness concerns since
> they work immediately after hitting the hazard, and don't require your
> fingers to be anywhere near the seat tube!

You're back to religious belief with tire savers. A St Christopher on
your head tube (those were once popular too!) would do as much.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org]

Rex Kerr writes:

>> You'll notice that the rebuttal closes with "I believe..." where in
>> contrast the original piece cites reasons why tire wiping is
>> ineffective. It's part of bicycling religion. Besides, as I
>> explained, Most flats occur in rear tires and today's bicycles have
>> the tire close enough to the seat tube to grab the fingers and tear
>> the nail off if not worse.

> I notice that neither the original post nor the rebuttal address the
> usage of those wire wipers that you used to find on various bikes.
> I remember a long time ago almost all "10 speeds" had them, a piece
> of wire that connected to the brake hanger bolt and was bent such
> that it continually wiped the face of the tire with a piece of
> rubber that went around the wire where it made contact. What
> happened to those? They seem to address Jobst's safety and
> effectiveness concerns since they work immediately after hitting the
> hazard, and don't require your fingers to be anywhere near the seat
> tube!

Two reasons: The guys with tire savers got as many flats as the rest
of us... and on days with moist or wet roads you could easily see
whose bicycle was equipped with tire savers. The guy with dirt all
over his legs was the tire saver man. This was in the days when we
all rode tubulars.

Jobst Brandt

[datakoll]

for several years I rode a route across onto and thru broken beer
bottle glass. On a bicycle path!
Usually, get off and walk thru it, sometimes sweep onto the berm, and
a few times riding thru then stopping after not seeing the shards
before.
I was "impressed" by the wiper mechanism so I would wipe with poster
paper or visually check the surface.
I did find a few embedded shards but not one was half embedded, stuck
in so a sweeper could hook the shard out. Several halfway embedded
shards pried out were not puncturing but would go onto a puncture had
i not stopped to check.
Wires? same goes for wires. Ya gotta work at getting the wires out
before or during a puncture.
The feeble wiper wouldn't stand a chance.
The experience was on Conti TT with liners.
A thinner GP street racer tire could benefit ore from the wiper as the
thinner tire in that environment was always deflating from debris:
more chances, more results, more reason for using a wiper.

[datakoll]

On Nov 26, 12:31 am, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Rex Kerr writes:
> >> You'll notice that the rebuttal closes with "I believe..." where in
> >> contrast the original piece cites reasons why tire wiping is
> >> ineffective. It's part of bicycling religion. Besides, as I
> >> explained, Most flats occur in rear tires and today's bicycles have
> >> the tire close enough to the seat tube to grab the fingers and tear
> >> the nail off if not worse.
> > I notice that neither the original post nor the rebuttal address the
> > usage of those wire wipers that you used to find on various bikes.
> > I remember a long time ago almost all "10 speeds" had them, a piece
> > of wire that connected to the brake hanger bolt and was bent such
> > that it continually wiped the face of the tire with a piece of
> > rubber that went around the wire where it made contact. What
> > happened to those? They seem to address Jobst's safety and
> > effectiveness concerns since they work immediately after hitting the
> > hazard, and don't require your fingers to be anywhere near the seat
> > tube!
>
> Two reasons: The guys with tire savers got as many flats as the rest
> of us... and on days with moist or wet roads you could easily see
> whose bicycle was equipped with tire savers. The guy with dirt all
> over his legs was the tire saver man. This was in the days when we
> all rode tubulars.
>
> Jobst Brandt- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

ok but at that time in the distant past what crazy **** did the tire
saver people come up with to justify their tire saving?
they said that using tire savers ...
A. enlarged their penis
B. grew hair on their backs
C. enlarged their testicles
E. made them better people
F. none of the above?

[Pete]

datakoll wrote:

>On Nov 26, 12:31 am, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>
>
>>Rex Kerr writes:
>>
>>
>>>>You'll notice that the rebuttal closes with "I believe..." where in
>>>>contrast the original piece cites reasons why tire wiping is
>>>>ineffective. It's part of bicycling religion. Besides, as I
>>>>explained, Most flats occur in rear tires and today's bicycles have
>>>>the tire close enough to the seat tube to grab the fingers and tear
>>>>the nail off if not worse.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I notice that neither the original post nor the rebuttal address the
>>>usage of those wire wipers that you used to find on various bikes.
>>>I remember a long time ago almost all "10 speeds" had them, a piece
>>>of wire that connected to the brake hanger bolt and was bent such
>>>that it continually wiped the face of the tire with a piece of
>>>rubber that went around the wire where it made contact. What
>>>happened to those? They seem to address Jobst's safety and
>>>effectiveness concerns since they work immediately after hitting the
>>>hazard, and don't require your fingers to be anywhere near the seat
>>>tube!
>>>
>>>
>>Two reasons: The guys with tire savers got as many flats as the rest
>>of us... and on days with moist or wet roads you could easily see
>>whose bicycle was equipped with tire savers. The guy with dirt all
>>over his legs was the tire saver man. This was in the days when we
>>all rode tubulars.
>>
>>Jobst Brandt- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>- Show quoted text -
>>
>>
>
>ok but at that time in the distant past what crazy **** did the tire
>saver people come up with to justify their tire saving?
>they said that using tire savers ...
>A. enlarged their penis
>B. grew hair on their backs
>C. enlarged their testicles
>E. made them better people
>F. none of the above?
>
>
D