greg lemond theory [Archive] - Triangle Cycling

xzzy

01-03-1970, 08:55 PM

K. Gringioni.

Dumbass

and further

Marion Jones,

Virenque, Festina, . . .

the tour of france for removing from the results, racers who admit to
racing drugged, but not removing france's racers convicted of racing the tof
drugged

the tour of france for changing the results of a drug test in order
remove from the results, Floyd Landis, because an American cyclist had won
their country's race for the 8th year in a row.

Every racer who only raced and never stood up and made a difference for
what is right.

There are many Dumbasses.

"Michael Press" <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:rubrum-514796.17273729112007@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com ...
> In article <finmt402drm@news3.newsguy.com>,
> Dave <dave@theuninvitedcritic.com> wrote:
>
>> Carl Sundquist wrote:
>> >
>> > "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> > news:5c250aa1-2509-45ef-b502-24cf106b1edc@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>> >> Dumbass -
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Greg LemonD sucks.
>> >>
>> >> With the exception of OJ Simpson, I don't know that any athlete can
>> >> hold a candle to LemonD when it comes to being unable to retire
>> >> gracefully.
>> >>
>> >
>> > VDB
>>
>> Tonya Harding
>
> You owe me lunch.
>
> --
> Michael Press

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 08:55 PM

xzzy wrote:
> K. Gringioni.
>
> Dumbass
>
> and further
>
> Marion Jones,
>
> Virenque, Festina, . . .
>
> the tour of france for removing from the results, racers who admit to
> racing drugged, but not removing france's racers convicted of racing the tof
> drugged
>
> the tour of france for changing the results of a drug test in order
> remove from the results, Floyd Landis, because an American cyclist had won
> their country's race for the 8th year in a row.
>
> Every racer who only raced and never stood up and made a difference for
> what is right.
>
> There are many Dumbasses.
>
>

The ASO doesn't get to decide results - only UCI officials can determine
final results. So when you say they "removed" a rider from the results,
that is incorrect.

The promoters opinion of results is irrelevant.

Thanks,

Magilla

Kurgan Gringioni

01-03-1970, 08:55 PM

On Nov 29, 5:59 pm, "xzzy" <mrbikej...@comcast.net> wrote:
> K. Gringioni.
>
> Dumbass
>
> and further
>
> Marion Jones,
>
> Virenque, Festina, . . .
>
> the tour of france for removing from the results, racers who admit to
> racing drugged, but not removing france's racers convicted of racing the tof
> drugged
>
> the tour of france for changing the results of a drug test in order
> remove from the results, Floyd Landis, because an American cyclist had won
> their country's race for the 8th year in a row.

Dumbasses -

LemonD (and OJ Simpson) stand out from the rest because all those
examples you all give, while being excellent specimens of sporting
disgrace, all sullied their reputations with actions performed
*during* their career.

LemonD (and OJ) are unique in that they had exceptionally stellar
careers, then blackened their reputations with jackassian behavior
well after they had retired.

I'm sure there are other examples of this phenomenon, but I can't, at
the moment, think of others who have done it as publicly.

Any other examples? Buehler?

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Michael Press

01-03-1970, 08:56 PM

In article
<e99fdaa6-cf17-479a-b650-7a96a74f1651@a35g2000prf.googl
egroups.com>,
Kurgan Gringioni <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Nov 29, 5:59 pm, "xzzy" <mrbikej...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > K. Gringioni.
> >
> > Dumbass
> >
> > and further
> >
> > Marion Jones,
> >
> > Virenque, Festina, . . .
> >
> > the tour of france for removing from the results, racers who admit to
> > racing drugged, but not removing france's racers convicted of racing the tof
> > drugged
> >
> > the tour of france for changing the results of a drug test in order
> > remove from the results, Floyd Landis, because an American cyclist had won
> > their country's race for the 8th year in a row.
>
>
>
> Dumbasses -
>
>
> LemonD (and OJ Simpson) stand out from the rest because all those
> examples you all give, while being excellent specimens of sporting
> disgrace, all sullied their reputations with actions performed
> *during* their career.
>
> LemonD (and OJ) are unique in that they had exceptionally stellar
> careers, then blackened their reputations with jackassian behavior
> well after they had retired.
>
> I'm sure there are other examples of this phenomenon, but I can't, at
> the moment, think of others who have done it as publicly.
>
> Any other examples? Buehler?

Kurt Thomas in Gymkata [1985].

--
Michael Press

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 08:56 PM

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

> On Nov 29, 5:59 pm, "xzzy" <mrbikej...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>K. Gringioni.
>>
>>Dumbass
>>
>>and further
>>
>> Marion Jones,
>>
>> Virenque, Festina, . . .
>>
>> the tour of france for removing from the results, racers who admit to
>>racing drugged, but not removing france's racers convicted of racing the tof
>>drugged
>>
>> the tour of france for changing the results of a drug test in order
>>remove from the results, Floyd Landis, because an American cyclist had won
>>their country's race for the 8th year in a row.
>
>
>
>
> Dumbasses -
>
>
> LemonD (and OJ Simpson) stand out from the rest because all those
> examples you all give, while being excellent specimens of sporting
> disgrace, all sullied their reputations with actions performed
> *during* their career.
>
> LemonD (and OJ) are unique in that they had exceptionally stellar
> careers, then blackened their reputations with jackassian behavior
> well after they had retired.
>
> I'm sure there are other examples of this phenomenon, but I can't, at
> the moment, think of others who have done it as publicly.
>
> Any other examples? Buehler?
>
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.

I use to think that too until I listened to the phone call LeMond
surreptitiously recorded between him and Lance's Oaklay agent Stephanie
McIlvain where McIlvain clearly indicated she heard Lance admit to using
drugs in that hospital room. She has no motive to lie about her bread
and butter client.

She also implicated Hincapie in being a big-time doper and said his baby
would probably turn out deformed from all the drugs he did. It was
pretty funny stuff.

Prior to hearing that phone call, LeMond came across as a jealous
bagpipe. After listening to it, LeMond comes across as a one-man
Woodward & Bernstein show.

Magilla

P.S. OJ killed 2 people; LeMond didn't touch anyone. Slight difference.

amit.ghosh@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 08:56 PM

On Nov 29, 10:41 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> I'm sure there are other examples of this phenomenon, but I can't, at
> the moment, think of others who have done it as publicly.
>
> Any other examples? Buehler?

dumbass,

there are lots, denny mclain, pascal richard.

lemond was drawn into the floyd soap opera by floyd. lemond made a
fair neutral comment but it was floyd's choice to call him and
intimidate him on the internet.

dustoyevsky@mac.com

01-03-1970, 08:56 PM

On Nov 30, 2:10 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> > On Nov 29, 5:59 pm, "xzzy" <mrbikej...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >>K. Gringioni.
>
> >>Dumbass
>
> >>and further
>
> >> Marion Jones,
>
> >> Virenque, Festina, . . .
>
> >> the tour of france for removing from the results, racers who admit to
> >>racing drugged, but not removing france's racers convicted of racing the tof
> >>drugged
>
> >> the tour of france for changing the results of a drug test in order
> >>remove from the results, Floyd Landis, because an American cyclist had won
> >>their country's race for the 8th year in a row.
>
> > Dumbasses -
>
> > LemonD (and OJ Simpson) stand out from the rest because all those
> > examples you all give, while being excellent specimens of sporting
> > disgrace, all sullied their reputations with actions performed
> > *during* their career.
>
> > LemonD (and OJ) are unique in that they had exceptionally stellar
> > careers, then blackened their reputations with jackassian behavior
> > well after they had retired.
>
> > I'm sure there are other examples of this phenomenon, but I can't, at
> > the moment, think of others who have done it as publicly.
>
> > Any other examples? Buehler?
>
> > thanks,
>
> > K. Gringioni.
>
> I use to think that too until I listened to the phone call LeMond
> surreptitiously recorded between him and Lance's Oaklay agent Stephanie
> McIlvain where McIlvain clearly indicated she heard Lance admit to using
> drugs in that hospital room. She has no motive to lie about her bread
> and butter client.
>
> She also implicated Hincapie in being a big-time doper and said his baby
> would probably turn out deformed from all the drugs he did. It was
> pretty funny stuff.
>
> Prior to hearing that phone call, LeMond came across as a jealous
> bagpipe. After listening to it, LeMond comes across as a one-man
> Woodward & Bernstein show.

Lemond is a jealous bagpipe who is lucky he didn't dope when he could
be caught-- can't ride in the Giro, wins the Tour in the same year?

Give us a break.

If the guy next to you can dope with little-to-no fear of being
caught, the fault is with the rule makers.

"Cleansing Sport for corporate sponsorship". Go Enron! --D-y

SLAVE of THE STATE

01-03-1970, 08:56 PM

On Nov 30, 12:10 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:

> P.S. OJ killed 2 people; LeMond didn't touch anyone. Slight difference.-

That was what I was thinking. Comparing a double-murderer to a whiner
doesn't seem quite fair for my sense of fairness.

Kurgan Gringioni

01-03-1970, 08:56 PM

On Nov 30, 12:10 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> > On Nov 29, 5:59 pm, "xzzy" <mrbikej...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >>K. Gringioni.
>
> >>Dumbass
>
> >>and further
>
> >> Marion Jones,
>
> >> Virenque, Festina, . . .
>
> >> the tour of france for removing from the results, racers who admit to
> >>racing drugged, but not removing france's racers convicted of racing the tof
> >>drugged
>
> >> the tour of france for changing the results of a drug test in order
> >>remove from the results, Floyd Landis, because an American cyclist had won
> >>their country's race for the 8th year in a row.
>
> > Dumbasses -
>
> > LemonD (and OJ Simpson) stand out from the rest because all those
> > examples you all give, while being excellent specimens of sporting
> > disgrace, all sullied their reputations with actions performed
> > *during* their career.
>
> > LemonD (and OJ) are unique in that they had exceptionally stellar
> > careers, then blackened their reputations with jackassian behavior
> > well after they had retired.
>
> > I'm sure there are other examples of this phenomenon, but I can't, at
> > the moment, think of others who have done it as publicly.
>
> > Any other examples? Buehler?
>
> > thanks,
>
> > K. Gringioni.
>
> I use to think that too until I listened to the phone call LeMond
> surreptitiously recorded between him and Lance's Oaklay agent Stephanie
> McIlvain where McIlvain clearly indicated she heard Lance admit to using
> drugs in that hospital room.

Dumbass -

Has it occurred to you that surreptitiously recording phone calls with
people who trust you, then making them public, is ****ed up?

I mean, fine, we know there's plenty of doping in sport. I get that. I
don't need LemonD to tell me that. But why wasn't he going after
Virenque? Why wasn't he going after Ullrich? Why not Riis? Why not
Indurain and Chiapucci, whom he actually had raced against
meaningfully in the TdF?

LemonD didn't go after any of those guys. He went after guys who might
supplant him as the best ever American racer.

LemonD is a tool. Gaining someone's trust, surreptitiously taping a
conversation w/ them, then going public???

Revolting.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 08:57 PM

dustoyevsky@mac.com wrote:

> On Nov 30, 2:10 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>>
>>>On Nov 29, 5:59 pm, "xzzy" <mrbikej...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>K. Gringioni.
>>
>>>>Dumbass
>>
>>>>and further
>>
>>>> Marion Jones,
>>
>>>> Virenque, Festina, . . .
>>
>>>> the tour of france for removing from the results, racers who admit to
>>>>racing drugged, but not removing france's racers convicted of racing the tof
>>>>drugged
>>
>>>> the tour of france for changing the results of a drug test in order
>>>>remove from the results, Floyd Landis, because an American cyclist had won
>>>>their country's race for the 8th year in a row.
>>
>>>Dumbasses -
>>
>>>LemonD (and OJ Simpson) stand out from the rest because all those
>>>examples you all give, while being excellent specimens of sporting
>>>disgrace, all sullied their reputations with actions performed
>>>*during* their career.
>>
>>>LemonD (and OJ) are unique in that they had exceptionally stellar
>>>careers, then blackened their reputations with jackassian behavior
>>>well after they had retired.
>>
>>>I'm sure there are other examples of this phenomenon, but I can't, at
>>>the moment, think of others who have done it as publicly.
>>
>>>Any other examples? Buehler?
>>
>>>thanks,
>>
>>>K. Gringioni.
>>
>>I use to think that too until I listened to the phone call LeMond
>>surreptitiously recorded between him and Lance's Oaklay agent Stephanie
>>McIlvain where McIlvain clearly indicated she heard Lance admit to using
>> drugs in that hospital room. She has no motive to lie about her bread
>>and butter client.
>>
>>She also implicated Hincapie in being a big-time doper and said his baby
>>would probably turn out deformed from all the drugs he did. It was
>>pretty funny stuff.
>>
>>Prior to hearing that phone call, LeMond came across as a jealous
>>bagpipe. After listening to it, LeMond comes across as a one-man
>>Woodward & Bernstein show.
>
>
> Lemond is a jealous bagpipe who is lucky he didn't dope when he could
> be caught-- can't ride in the Giro, wins the Tour in the same year?
>
> Give us a break.
>
> If the guy next to you can dope with little-to-no fear of being
> caught, the fault is with the rule makers.
>
> "Cleansing Sport for corporate sponsorship". Go Enron! --D-y

LeMond did in fact ride in the Giro when he won the Tour in his
coomeback year of 1989. If you recall, he got like 2nd in the Giro time
trial, but up until that time was having a miserable Giro, most likely
because he was a bit overweight and underraced.

EPO wasn't even in use back then, so what drugs was he doing?

Also, even if LeMond were jealous, that doesn't nullify the content of
the phone call with McIlvain.

You sound like you're just pissed off because Floyd got caught.

Thanks,

Magilla

Jim Flom

01-03-1970, 08:58 PM

"MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote...
>
> LeMond did in fact ride in the Giro when he won the Tour in his coomeback
> year of 1989. If you recall, he got like 2nd in the Giro time trial, but
> up until that time was having a miserable Giro, most likely because he was
> a bit overweight and underraced.
>
> EPO wasn't even in use back then, so what drugs was he doing?

Amphetimines were widely used back then.

--
JF

Kurgan Gringioni

01-03-1970, 08:58 PM

On Nov 30, 9:31 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> dustoyev...@mac.com wrote:
> > On Nov 30, 2:10 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> >>>On Nov 29, 5:59 pm, "xzzy" <mrbikej...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>K. Gringioni.
>
> >>>>Dumbass
>
> >>>>and further
>
> >>>> Marion Jones,
>
> >>>> Virenque, Festina, . . .
>
> >>>> the tour of france for removing from the results, racers who admit to
> >>>>racing drugged, but not removing france's racers convicted of racing the tof
> >>>>drugged
>
> >>>> the tour of france for changing the results of a drug test in order
> >>>>remove from the results, Floyd Landis, because an American cyclist had won
> >>>>their country's race for the 8th year in a row.
>
> >>>Dumbasses -
>
> >>>LemonD (and OJ Simpson) stand out from the rest because all those
> >>>examples you all give, while being excellent specimens of sporting
> >>>disgrace, all sullied their reputations with actions performed
> >>>*during* their career.
>
> >>>LemonD (and OJ) are unique in that they had exceptionally stellar
> >>>careers, then blackened their reputations with jackassian behavior
> >>>well after they had retired.
>
> >>>I'm sure there are other examples of this phenomenon, but I can't, at
> >>>the moment, think of others who have done it as publicly.
>
> >>>Any other examples? Buehler?
>
> >>>thanks,
>
> >>>K. Gringioni.
>
> >>I use to think that too until I listened to the phone call LeMond
> >>surreptitiously recorded between him and Lance's Oaklay agent Stephanie
> >>McIlvain where McIlvain clearly indicated she heard Lance admit to using
> >> drugs in that hospital room. She has no motive to lie about her bread
> >>and butter client.
>
> >>She also implicated Hincapie in being a big-time doper and said his baby
> >>would probably turn out deformed from all the drugs he did. It was
> >>pretty funny stuff.
>
> >>Prior to hearing that phone call, LeMond came across as a jealous
> >>bagpipe. After listening to it, LeMond comes across as a one-man
> >>Woodward & Bernstein show.
>
> > Lemond is a jealous bagpipe who is lucky he didn't dope when he could
> > be caught-- can't ride in the Giro, wins the Tour in the same year?
>
> > Give us a break.
>
> > If the guy next to you can dope with little-to-no fear of being
> > caught, the fault is with the rule makers.
>
> > "Cleansing Sport for corporate sponsorship". Go Enron! --D-y
>
> LeMond did in fact ride in the Giro when he won the Tour in his
> coomeback year of 1989. If you recall, he got like 2nd in the Giro time
> trial, but up until that time was having a miserable Giro, most likely
> because he was a bit overweight and underraced.
>
> EPO wasn't even in use back then, so what drugs was he doing?

Dumbass -

EPO wasn't used in bike racing, but it was available. The FDA approved
it in 1989 and it had been in clinical trials before then.

There's a theory that what ol' Otto Jacome shot LemonD up with in the
Giro to facilitate his miraculous recovery was more than just iron. I
mean, you're anemic, then suddenly your blood goes back to normal w/
some iron? Hmmmmmm . . . . .

There's a school of thought that it was actually LemonD whom
introduced it to bike racing.

Normally, I wouldn't speculate like that, but since LemonD does it to
others, it may as well be done to him in turn.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

dustoyevsky@mac.com

01-03-1970, 08:58 PM

On Nov 30, 11:31 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> dustoyev...@mac.com wrote:
> > On Nov 30, 2:10 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> >>>On Nov 29, 5:59 pm, "xzzy" <mrbikej...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>K. Gringioni.
>
> >>>>Dumbass
>
> >>>>and further
>
> >>>> Marion Jones,
>
> >>>> Virenque, Festina, . . .
>
> >>>> the tour of france for removing from the results, racers who admit to
> >>>>racing drugged, but not removing france's racers convicted of racing the tof
> >>>>drugged
>
> >>>> the tour of france for changing the results of a drug test in order
> >>>>remove from the results, Floyd Landis, because an American cyclist had won
> >>>>their country's race for the 8th year in a row.
>
> >>>Dumbasses -
>
> >>>LemonD (and OJ Simpson) stand out from the rest because all those
> >>>examples you all give, while being excellent specimens of sporting
> >>>disgrace, all sullied their reputations with actions performed
> >>>*during* their career.
>
> >>>LemonD (and OJ) are unique in that they had exceptionally stellar
> >>>careers, then blackened their reputations with jackassian behavior
> >>>well after they had retired.
>
> >>>I'm sure there are other examples of this phenomenon, but I can't, at
> >>>the moment, think of others who have done it as publicly.
>
> >>>Any other examples? Buehler?
>
> >>>thanks,
>
> >>>K. Gringioni.
>
> >>I use to think that too until I listened to the phone call LeMond
> >>surreptitiously recorded between him and Lance's Oaklay agent Stephanie
> >>McIlvain where McIlvain clearly indicated she heard Lance admit to using
> >> drugs in that hospital room. She has no motive to lie about her bread
> >>and butter client.
>
> >>She also implicated Hincapie in being a big-time doper and said his baby
> >>would probably turn out deformed from all the drugs he did. It was
> >>pretty funny stuff.
>
> >>Prior to hearing that phone call, LeMond came across as a jealous
> >>bagpipe. After listening to it, LeMond comes across as a one-man
> >>Woodward & Bernstein show.
>
> > Lemond is a jealous bagpipe who is lucky he didn't dope when he could
> > be caught-- can't ride in the Giro, wins the Tour in the same year?
>
> > Give us a break.
>
> > If the guy next to you can dope with little-to-no fear of being
> > caught, the fault is with the rule makers.
>
> > "Cleansing Sport for corporate sponsorship". Go Enron! --D-y
>
> LeMond did in fact ride in the Giro when he won the Tour in his
> coomeback year of 1989. If you recall, he got like 2nd in the Giro time
> trial, but up until that time was having a miserable Giro, most likely
> because he was a bit overweight and underraced.

Or, it was time to start his dope regimen for the Tour.

> EPO wasn't even in use back then, so what drugs was he doing?

Even Greg doesn't know for sure what drugs he was doing.

> Also, even if LeMond were jealous, that doesn't nullify the content of
> the phone call with McIlvain.

There's a lot of "stuff" out there.

> You sound like you're just pissed off because Floyd got caught.

Actually, my point is that when "we knew xyz was doping" is uttered by
the head dope hunter, then anyone who fits the doper profile is as
good as a doper.

Remember, they all deny it.

I am pissed off at the way this was handled. --D-y

amit.ghosh@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 08:58 PM

On Nov 30, 12:31 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:

> LeMond did in fact ride in the Giro when he won the Tour in his
> coomeback year of 1989. If you recall, he got like 2nd in the Giro time
> trial, but up until that time was having a miserable Giro, most likely
> because he was a bit overweight and underraced.
>
> EPO wasn't even in use back then, so what drugs was he doing?
>

dumbass,

it was the cusp. johannes draaijer on PDM (lemond's old team) raced in
the '89 tour and when he died in feb. 1990 his widow said he was
taking EPO.

this doesn't prove anything about lemond and it's not that hard to
ibelieve that he raced himself into shape during the giro.

gym.gravity

01-03-1970, 08:58 PM

On Nov 30, 12:31 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> dustoyev...@mac.com wrote:
> > On Nov 30, 2:10 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> >>>On Nov 29, 5:59 pm, "xzzy" <mrbikej...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>K. Gringioni.
>
> >>>>Dumbass
>
> >>>>and further
>
> >>>> Marion Jones,
>
> >>>> Virenque, Festina, . . .
>
> >>>> the tour of france for removing from the results, racers who admit to
> >>>>racing drugged, but not removing france's racers convicted of racing the tof
> >>>>drugged
>
> >>>> the tour of france for changing the results of a drug test in order
> >>>>remove from the results, Floyd Landis, because an American cyclist had won
> >>>>their country's race for the 8th year in a row.
>
> >>>Dumbasses -
>
> >>>LemonD (and OJ Simpson) stand out from the rest because all those
> >>>examples you all give, while being excellent specimens of sporting
> >>>disgrace, all sullied their reputations with actions performed
> >>>*during* their career.
>
> >>>LemonD (and OJ) are unique in that they had exceptionally stellar
> >>>careers, then blackened their reputations with jackassian behavior
> >>>well after they had retired.
>
> >>>I'm sure there are other examples of this phenomenon, but I can't, at
> >>>the moment, think of others who have done it as publicly.
>
> >>>Any other examples? Buehler?
>
> >>>thanks,
>
> >>>K. Gringioni.
>
> >>I use to think that too until I listened to the phone call LeMond
> >>surreptitiously recorded between him and Lance's Oaklay agent Stephanie
> >>McIlvain where McIlvain clearly indicated she heard Lance admit to using
> >> drugs in that hospital room. She has no motive to lie about her bread
> >>and butter client.
>
> >>She also implicated Hincapie in being a big-time doper and said his baby
> >>would probably turn out deformed from all the drugs he did. It was
> >>pretty funny stuff.
>
> >>Prior to hearing that phone call, LeMond came across as a jealous
> >>bagpipe. After listening to it, LeMond comes across as a one-man
> >>Woodward & Bernstein show.
>
> > Lemond is a jealous bagpipe who is lucky he didn't dope when he could
> > be caught-- can't ride in the Giro, wins the Tour in the same year?
>
> > Give us a break.
>
> > If the guy next to you can dope with little-to-no fear of being
> > caught, the fault is with the rule makers.
>
> > "Cleansing Sport for corporate sponsorship". Go Enron! --D-y
>
> LeMond did in fact ride in the Giro when he won the Tour in his
> coomeback year of 1989. If you recall, he got like 2nd in the Giro time
> trial, but up until that time was having a miserable Giro, most likely
> because he was a bit overweight and underraced.
>
> EPO wasn't even in use back then, so what drugs was he doing?
>
> Also, even if LeMond were jealous, that doesn't nullify the content of
> the phone call with McIlvain.
>
> You sound like you're just pissed off because Floyd got caught.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Magilla- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

hey, talkin' literally, b vitamins and iron means b vitamins and
iron. what about not so literally, and more primitive than epo.

Still no responses from greg or "anyone else" in my email.

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 08:58 PM

Jim Flom wrote:
> "MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote...
>
>>LeMond did in fact ride in the Giro when he won the Tour in his coomeback
>>year of 1989. If you recall, he got like 2nd in the Giro time trial, but
>>up until that time was having a miserable Giro, most likely because he was
>>a bit overweight and underraced.
>>
>>EPO wasn't even in use back then, so what drugs was he doing?
>
>
> Amphetimines were widely used back then.
>

My questions was: what drugs was GREG LeMOND doing? Anybody can name
drugs that existed. Proving LeMond used them is completely different,
not to mention futile.

To even attempt to insinuate one can link LeMond to amphetamines 15
years ago is a silly exercise of meaningless supposition.

Magilla

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 08:58 PM

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> On Nov 30, 12:10 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>>
>>>On Nov 29, 5:59 pm, "xzzy" <mrbikej...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>K. Gringioni.
>>
>>>>Dumbass
>>
>>>>and further
>>
>>>> Marion Jones,
>>
>>>> Virenque, Festina, . . .
>>
>>>> the tour of france for removing from the results, racers who admit to
>>>>racing drugged, but not removing france's racers convicted of racing the tof
>>>>drugged
>>
>>>> the tour of france for changing the results of a drug test in order
>>>>remove from the results, Floyd Landis, because an American cyclist had won
>>>>their country's race for the 8th year in a row.
>>
>>>Dumbasses -
>>
>>>LemonD (and OJ Simpson) stand out from the rest because all those
>>>examples you all give, while being excellent specimens of sporting
>>>disgrace, all sullied their reputations with actions performed
>>>*during* their career.
>>
>>>LemonD (and OJ) are unique in that they had exceptionally stellar
>>>careers, then blackened their reputations with jackassian behavior
>>>well after they had retired.
>>
>>>I'm sure there are other examples of this phenomenon, but I can't, at
>>>the moment, think of others who have done it as publicly.
>>
>>>Any other examples? Buehler?
>>
>>>thanks,
>>
>>>K. Gringioni.
>>
>>I use to think that too until I listened to the phone call LeMond
>>surreptitiously recorded between him and Lance's Oaklay agent Stephanie
>>McIlvain where McIlvain clearly indicated she heard Lance admit to using
>> drugs in that hospital room.
>
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> Has it occurred to you that surreptitiously recording phone calls with
> people who trust you, then making them public, is ****ed up?
>
> I mean, fine, we know there's plenty of doping in sport. I get that. I
> don't need LemonD to tell me that. But why wasn't he going after
> Virenque? Why wasn't he going after Ullrich? Why not Riis? Why not
> Indurain and Chiapucci, whom he actually had raced against
> meaningfully in the TdF?
>
> LemonD didn't go after any of those guys. He went after guys who might
> supplant him as the best ever American racer.
>
> LemonD is a tool. Gaining someone's trust, surreptitiously taping a
> conversation w/ them, then going public???
>
> Revolting.
>
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.

LemonD's motives are irrelevant to the substance of his information. I
could care less about his motive and I'm not so sure why you are
obsessed with it.

And Floyd called LemonD, not the other way around.

LemonD did the absolute right thing - the smart thing - with Stephanie
McIlvain. Now there are 3 people who said they heard Lance admit to
using drugs in that hospital room.

Magilla

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 08:58 PM

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

> On Nov 30, 9:31 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>>dustoyev...@mac.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Nov 30, 2:10 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>>
>>>>>On Nov 29, 5:59 pm, "xzzy" <mrbikej...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>K. Gringioni.
>>
>>>>>>Dumbass
>>
>>>>>>and further
>>
>>>>>>Marion Jones,
>>
>>>>>> Virenque, Festina, . . .
>>
>>>>>> the tour of france for removing from the results, racers who admit to
>>>>>>racing drugged, but not removing france's racers convicted of racing the tof
>>>>>>drugged
>>
>>>>>> the tour of france for changing the results of a drug test in order
>>>>>>remove from the results, Floyd Landis, because an American cyclist had won
>>>>>>their country's race for the 8th year in a row.
>>
>>>>>Dumbasses -
>>
>>>>>LemonD (and OJ Simpson) stand out from the rest because all those
>>>>>examples you all give, while being excellent specimens of sporting
>>>>>disgrace, all sullied their reputations with actions performed
>>>>>*during* their career.
>>
>>>>>LemonD (and OJ) are unique in that they had exceptionally stellar
>>>>>careers, then blackened their reputations with jackassian behavior
>>>>>well after they had retired.
>>
>>>>>I'm sure there are other examples of this phenomenon, but I can't, at
>>>>>the moment, think of others who have done it as publicly.
>>
>>>>>Any other examples? Buehler?
>>
>>>>>thanks,
>>
>>>>>K. Gringioni.
>>
>>>>I use to think that too until I listened to the phone call LeMond
>>>>surreptitiously recorded between him and Lance's Oaklay agent Stephanie
>>>>McIlvain where McIlvain clearly indicated she heard Lance admit to using
>>>> drugs in that hospital room. She has no motive to lie about her bread
>>>>and butter client.
>>
>>>>She also implicated Hincapie in being a big-time doper and said his baby
>>>>would probably turn out deformed from all the drugs he did. It was
>>>>pretty funny stuff.
>>
>>>>Prior to hearing that phone call, LeMond came across as a jealous
>>>>bagpipe. After listening to it, LeMond comes across as a one-man
>>>>Woodward & Bernstein show.
>>
>>>Lemond is a jealous bagpipe who is lucky he didn't dope when he could
>>>be caught-- can't ride in the Giro, wins the Tour in the same year?
>>
>>>Give us a break.
>>
>>>If the guy next to you can dope with little-to-no fear of being
>>>caught, the fault is with the rule makers.
>>
>>>"Cleansing Sport for corporate sponsorship". Go Enron! --D-y
>>
>>LeMond did in fact ride in the Giro when he won the Tour in his
>>coomeback year of 1989. If you recall, he got like 2nd in the Giro time
>>trial, but up until that time was having a miserable Giro, most likely
>>because he was a bit overweight and underraced.
>>
>>EPO wasn't even in use back then, so what drugs was he doing?
>
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> EPO wasn't used in bike racing, but it was available. The FDA approved
> it in 1989 and it had been in clinical trials before then.
>
> There's a theory that what ol' Otto Jacome shot LemonD up with in the
> Giro to facilitate his miraculous recovery was more than just iron. I
> mean, you're anemic, then suddenly your blood goes back to normal w/
> some iron? Hmmmmmm . . . . .
>
> There's a school of thought that it was actually LemonD whom
> introduced it to bike racing.
>
> Normally, I wouldn't speculate like that, but since LemonD does it to
> others, it may as well be done to him in turn.
>
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.

LeMond already won the Tour de France in 1986 before EPO was available
and got second the year prior. So to think he would need it to win in
1989 is not that compelling given that his anemia in '89 had nothing to
do with his hunting accident.

Also, the fix for anemia is actually iron injections. EPO wouldn't have
even worked that quickly (it takes over a week for EPO to work), so we
can rule out EPO injection for the Giro time trial performance.

If LeMond took EPO to win the Tour de France, then good ****ing luck
proving that one.

LeMond's 'speculation' about others on the other hand is based on much
more hardcore evidence. With Floyd it was based on a postivie A and B
test, which was ultimately sustained by the CAS. That's hardly the
****ing definition of "speculation."

With Lance, it was based on his knowledge that Ferrari is a notorious
doping doctor. It was also based on his personal knowledge that Lance's
agent - Stephanie McIlvain - at Oakley admitted she heard Lance admit to
usiing dope throughout his early career and then denying he ever did.
Besides, Lance already had Carmichael as his trainer - why did he need
Ferrari? The obvious answer is the same one Greg was implying.

You can call this information speculation, but it's actually
circumstantial evidence. And if you consider that Stephanie McIlvain
had no motivation to lie about Lance taking drugs, it might even be
considered compelling circumstantial evidence.

What circumstantial evidence do you have on LeMond BESIDES speculation?

Thanks,

Magilla

Scott

01-03-1970, 08:58 PM

On Nov 30, 1:38 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> Jim Flom wrote:
> > "MagillaGorilla" <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote...
>
> >>LeMond did in fact ride in the Giro when he won the Tour in his coomeback
> >>year of 1989. If you recall, he got like 2nd in the Giro time trial, but
> >>up until that time was having a miserable Giro, most likely because he was
> >>a bit overweight and underraced.
>
> >>EPO wasn't even in use back then, so what drugs was he doing?
>
> > Amphetimines were widely used back then.
>
> My questions was: what drugs was GREG LeMOND doing? Anybody can name
> drugs that existed. Proving LeMond used them is completely different,
> not to mention futile.
>
> To even attempt to insinuate one can link LeMond to amphetamines 15
> years ago is a silly exercise of meaningless supposition.
>
> Magilla

Are you suggesting Lemond used suppositions?

Michael Press

01-03-1970, 08:58 PM

In article <fipsd1$82k$1@aioe.org>,
MagillaGorilla <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:

> Jim Flom wrote:
> > "MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote...
> >
> >>LeMond did in fact ride in the Giro when he won the Tour in his coomeback
> >>year of 1989. If you recall, he got like 2nd in the Giro time trial, but
> >>up until that time was having a miserable Giro, most likely because he was
> >>a bit overweight and underraced.
> >>
> >>EPO wasn't even in use back then, so what drugs was he doing?
> >
> >
> > Amphetimines were widely used back then.
> >
>
>
> My questions was: what drugs was GREG LeMOND doing?

He was doing all of them. What do you think?

--
Michael Press

gym.gravity

01-03-1970, 08:58 PM

Vagilla, buddy:

Also, the fix for anemia is actually iron injections. EPO wouldn't
have
even worked that quickly (it takes over a week for EPO to work), so
we
can rule out EPO injection for the Giro time trial performance.

Iron injections are going to work that fast? was his crit documented
or just his hemoglobin?

My theory is still holding.

Kurgan Gringioni

01-03-1970, 08:59 PM

On Nov 30, 1:23 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:

> LemonD did the absolute right thing - the smart thing - with Stephanie
> McIlvain. Now there are 3 people who said they heard Lance admit to
> using drugs in that hospital room.

Dumbass -

I'm sorry.

Gaining someone's trust, taping a conversation w/out their knowledge,
then making it public is not right.

I'm sure some of your friends have done things that are wrong. Perhaps
you should get them to talk about it on tape, then put it on youtube.

My guess is that the rest of your friends would be impressed enough to
never tell you anything in confidence.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 08:59 PM

dustoyevsky@mac.com wrote:
> On Nov 30, 11:31 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>>dustoyev...@mac.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Nov 30, 2:10 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>>
>>>>>On Nov 29, 5:59 pm, "xzzy" <mrbikej...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>K. Gringioni.
>>
>>>>>>Dumbass
>>
>>>>>>and further
>>
>>>>>>Marion Jones,
>>
>>>>>> Virenque, Festina, . . .
>>
>>>>>> the tour of france for removing from the results, racers who admit to
>>>>>>racing drugged, but not removing france's racers convicted of racing the tof
>>>>>>drugged
>>
>>>>>> the tour of france for changing the results of a drug test in order
>>>>>>remove from the results, Floyd Landis, because an American cyclist had won
>>>>>>their country's race for the 8th year in a row.
>>
>>>>>Dumbasses -
>>
>>>>>LemonD (and OJ Simpson) stand out from the rest because all those
>>>>>examples you all give, while being excellent specimens of sporting
>>>>>disgrace, all sullied their reputations with actions performed
>>>>>*during* their career.
>>
>>>>>LemonD (and OJ) are unique in that they had exceptionally stellar
>>>>>careers, then blackened their reputations with jackassian behavior
>>>>>well after they had retired.
>>
>>>>>I'm sure there are other examples of this phenomenon, but I can't, at
>>>>>the moment, think of others who have done it as publicly.
>>
>>>>>Any other examples? Buehler?
>>
>>>>>thanks,
>>
>>>>>K. Gringioni.
>>
>>>>I use to think that too until I listened to the phone call LeMond
>>>>surreptitiously recorded between him and Lance's Oaklay agent Stephanie
>>>>McIlvain where McIlvain clearly indicated she heard Lance admit to using
>>>> drugs in that hospital room. She has no motive to lie about her bread
>>>>and butter client.
>>
>>>>She also implicated Hincapie in being a big-time doper and said his baby
>>>>would probably turn out deformed from all the drugs he did. It was
>>>>pretty funny stuff.
>>
>>>>Prior to hearing that phone call, LeMond came across as a jealous
>>>>bagpipe. After listening to it, LeMond comes across as a one-man
>>>>Woodward & Bernstein show.
>>
>>>Lemond is a jealous bagpipe who is lucky he didn't dope when he could
>>>be caught-- can't ride in the Giro, wins the Tour in the same year?
>>
>>>Give us a break.
>>
>>>If the guy next to you can dope with little-to-no fear of being
>>>caught, the fault is with the rule makers.
>>
>>>"Cleansing Sport for corporate sponsorship". Go Enron! --D-y
>>
>>LeMond did in fact ride in the Giro when he won the Tour in his
>>coomeback year of 1989. If you recall, he got like 2nd in the Giro time
>>trial, but up until that time was having a miserable Giro, most likely
>>because he was a bit overweight and underraced.
>
>
> Or, it was time to start his dope regimen for the Tour.
>
>
>>EPO wasn't even in use back then, so what drugs was he doing?
>
>
> Even Greg doesn't know for sure what drugs he was doing.
>
>
>>Also, even if LeMond were jealous, that doesn't nullify the content of
>>the phone call with McIlvain.
>
>
> There's a lot of "stuff" out there.
>
>
>>You sound like you're just pissed off because Floyd got caught.
>
>
> Actually, my point is that when "we knew xyz was doping" is uttered by
> the head dope hunter, then anyone who fits the doper profile is as
> good as a doper.
>
> Remember, they all deny it.
>
> I am pissed off at the way this was handled. --D-y

Here's the problem with your posts - you make vague generalizations that
cannot be refuted because I don't even know what the **** you're talking
about half the time.

So you need to refine your communications skills before I can beat the
be-jesus out of you.

Also, when I do think I understand what youa re talking about, there's
no point to any of it.

For example, when you say, "there's a lot of stuff out there." What's
your point in stating the obvious?

And then you state that your "point" is "when "we knew xyz was doping"
is uttered by the head dope hunter, then anyone who fits the doper
profile is as good as a doper." - here I assume you are talking about
**** Pound. But when did **** Pound ever make a frivolous accusation
against someone?

Can you give me one example?

Thanks,

Magilla

dustoyevsky@mac.com

01-03-1970, 08:59 PM

On Nov 30, 4:57 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:

> Here's the problem with your posts - you make vague generalizations that
> cannot be refuted because I don't even know what the **** you're talking
> about half the time.
>
> So you need to refine your communications skills before I can beat the
> be-jesus out of you.

Sounds kinda like bending over. No thanks there.

> Also, when I do think I understand what youa re talking about, there's
> no point to any of it.
>
> For example, when you say, "there's a lot of stuff out there." What's
> your point in stating the obvious?

My point with that was "what can you believe"? The web is very
tangled, you know? Some people believe jailhouse "confessions".
>
> And then you state that your "point" is "when "we knew xyz was doping"
> is uttered by the head dope hunter, then anyone who fits the doper
> profile is as good as a doper." - here I assume you are talking about
> **** Pound. But when did **** Pound ever make a frivolous accusation
> against someone?

> Can you give me one example?

Whew. That was pretty good. Point stands, though. "Good for the
goose", etc. Lemond's miracle comeback, from riding like **** to
winning in such a short time, complete with "medical explanation" is t-
totally Doper Profile. "They all doped", and Lemond beat them, so not
only did Lemond dope, he doped more and better. Well-- that's the
essence of the accusation against Armstrong, is it not? Can you tell
me that Lemond knows for sure what was in his bloodstream?

As for Pound, his reaction to Marion Jones' rightfully calling his a
"kangaroo court" was (approx.) "That young woman better be careful or
we will take all her medals away." That's "we know she was doping" in
a most public and threatening way. Maybe not frivolous, and the fact
that he turned out to be correct doesn't make it OK, either.

Would you want to be in a system where The Power held all the cards--
no B tests, no transparency of process, no recourse except to confess,
guilty or not? Does it bother you maybe just a little that LNDD's bad
Landis test was backed up by some fine and thorough ass-covering retro-
testing? When "problems with chain of control" were found IRT Landis'
specimens?

Just an opinion, but Landis' not backing down ("you got me") when the
isotope test findings were revealed is pretty telling.

My real opinion? They all doped. Some of them maybe doped all the
time, some not. Maybe a few didn't. Maybe Charlie Motet's tears on the
podium at Worlds in '86 (were you there, too? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elfDIDNaxO8
that's me in the bleachers over there on the right) while doper
Argentin took the jersey were "for real". If so, I think it's a
****ing tragedy. Really.

Problem is, what are we going to do about it? Drive out all the
sponsors forever? People dope for Cat V parking lot races, so "taking
the money out" which seems to be a real part of the agenda here, isn't
going to work, either.

> Thanks,

Welcome.

I'm waiting for you to turn your considerable (and enjoyable) skills
to serve up equal helpings for WADA , and all other federations and
sanctioning bodies, who are no less guilty for creating this mess than
the dopingest doper who ever doped.

"Just say no" doesn't work very well when others can say yes,
thankyouverymuch and not get caught, unless they get ratted out or
leave their dope on top of their dressers for the cops to find. --D-y

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 08:59 PM

amit.ghosh@gmail.com wrote:

> On Nov 30, 12:31 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>LeMond did in fact ride in the Giro when he won the Tour in his
>>coomeback year of 1989. If you recall, he got like 2nd in the Giro time
>>trial, but up until that time was having a miserable Giro, most likely
>>because he was a bit overweight and underraced.
>>
>>EPO wasn't even in use back then, so what drugs was he doing?
>>
>
>
> dumbass,
>
> it was the cusp. johannes draaijer on PDM (lemond's old team) raced in
> the '89 tour and when he died in feb. 1990 his widow said he was
> taking EPO.
>
> this doesn't prove anything about lemond and it's not that hard to
> ibelieve that he raced himself into shape during the giro.

EPO might have been used by some riders back then, but it wasn't
widespread until around 92-94, I think. Chiapucci was probably on it.

It is very unlikely LeMond would have used it in 1990 when we know he
didn't use it in 85, 86, or 89. Generally, if you win the Tour 2 times
and get second once, you pretty much stick with that program.

I think the real question here is what did Roche take in '87? The
triple still hasn't been repeated. Roche must have been enrolled in the
clinical trials of Aranesp when he did that.

Thanks,

Magilla

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 09:01 PM

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> On Nov 30, 1:23 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>LemonD did the absolute right thing - the smart thing - with Stephanie
>>McIlvain. Now there are 3 people who said they heard Lance admit to
>>using drugs in that hospital room.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> I'm sorry.
>
> Gaining someone's trust, taping a conversation w/out their knowledge,
> then making it public is not right.
>
> I'm sure some of your friends have done things that are wrong. Perhaps
> you should get them to talk about it on tape, then put it on youtube.
>
> My guess is that the rest of your friends would be impressed enough to
> never tell you anything in confidence.
>
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.

LeMond only tape recorded the phone call because Lance and his clique
were trying to ruin his bike business with Trek and spread bad rumors
about him. Under these circumstances, he was completely justitifed in
protecting his business interests from people who he felt might be
sabotaging him.

He also did it to gather intel against Lance (and not to gather damaging
information against Stephanie). So I think you misunderstood LeMond's
motives.

And when Stephanie McIlvain had an opportunity to tell the truth in the
SCA hearing to implicate Lance, and lied for Lance - LeMond was 100%
justified in releasing the tape.

Without that tape, the Lance camp would have callled LeMond a liar.

Stephanie McIlvain wasn't a close friend of Greg's - she was a business
aquaintenance. And if she were such a close of friend of leMond's - as
you say - then why did she lie and thereby knowingly make LeMond appear
to be dishonest?

I am convinced LeMond did the right thing.

Magilla

Mark Fennell

01-03-1970, 09:02 PM

MagillaGorilla wrote:
> LeMond only tape recorded the phone call because Lance and his clique were
> trying to ruin his bike business with Trek and spread bad rumors about
> him. Under these circumstances, he was completely justitifed in
> protecting his business interests from people who he felt might be
> sabotaging him.
>
> He also did it to gather intel against Lance (and not to gather damaging
> information against Stephanie). So I think you misunderstood LeMond's
> motives.
>
> And when Stephanie McIlvain had an opportunity to tell the truth in the
> SCA hearing to implicate Lance, and lied for Lance - LeMond was 100%
> justified in releasing the tape.
>
> Without that tape, the Lance camp would have callled LeMond a liar.
>
> Stephanie McIlvain wasn't a close friend of Greg's - she was a business
> aquaintenance. And if she were such a close of friend of leMond's - as
> you say - then why did she lie and thereby knowingly make LeMond appear to
> be dishonest?
>
> I am convinced LeMond did the right thing.
>

I agree, although I cringed when she asked him if he was recording it and he
said no. There's a lot of lying going around and certainly his is pretty
mild compared to the rest.

Mark
http://marcofanelli.blogspot.com

Kurgan Gringioni

01-03-1970, 09:02 PM

On Dec 1, 8:52 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> > On Nov 30, 1:23 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>LemonD did the absolute right thing - the smart thing - with Stephanie
> >>McIlvain. Now there are 3 people who said they heard Lance admit to
> >>using drugs in that hospital room.
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > I'm sorry.
>
> > Gaining someone's trust, taping a conversation w/out their knowledge,
> > then making it public is not right.
>
> > I'm sure some of your friends have done things that are wrong. Perhaps
> > you should get them to talk about it on tape, then put it on youtube.
>
> > My guess is that the rest of your friends would be impressed enough to
> > never tell you anything in confidence.
>
> > thanks,
>
> > K. Gringioni.
>
> LeMond only tape recorded the phone call because Lance and his clique
> were trying to ruin his bike business with Trek and spread bad rumors
> about him. Under these circumstances, he was completely justitifed in
> protecting his business interests from people who he felt might be
> sabotaging him.

Dumbass -

Do you see Eddy Merckx going after Johann Museeuw? Bernard Hinault
saying anything about Richard Virenque? Miguel Indurain taping
conversations w/ associates of Iban Mayo?

We don't see that because those guys retired gracefully. Hinault and
Merckx have remained in the bike racing biz and have stayed above the
fray.

LemonD? He stuck it in his own ass. He's a tool.

And no, I don't think LANCE is clean. I don't think bike racing in
general is clean. I do think LemonD is a tool.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 09:03 PM

Mark Fennell wrote:
> MagillaGorilla wrote:
>
>>LeMond only tape recorded the phone call because Lance and his clique were
>>trying to ruin his bike business with Trek and spread bad rumors about
>>him. Under these circumstances, he was completely justitifed in
>>protecting his business interests from people who he felt might be
>>sabotaging him.
>>
>>He also did it to gather intel against Lance (and not to gather damaging
>>information against Stephanie). So I think you misunderstood LeMond's
>>motives.
>>
>>And when Stephanie McIlvain had an opportunity to tell the truth in the
>>SCA hearing to implicate Lance, and lied for Lance - LeMond was 100%
>>justified in releasing the tape.
>>
>>Without that tape, the Lance camp would have callled LeMond a liar.
>>
>>Stephanie McIlvain wasn't a close friend of Greg's - she was a business
>>aquaintenance. And if she were such a close of friend of leMond's - as
>>you say - then why did she lie and thereby knowingly make LeMond appear to
>>be dishonest?
>>
>>I am convinced LeMond did the right thing.
>>
>
>
> I agree, although I cringed when she asked him if he was recording it and he
> said no. There's a lot of lying going around and certainly his is pretty
> mild compared to the rest.
>
> Mark
> http://marcofanelli.blogspot.com

Did you hear the part where she said George Hincapie's baby was probably
going to be born deformed from all the drugs he did?

I was also surpised to hear that Lance had a falling out with Oakley
over the private jet. Lance comes across as a guy who keeps score and
gives payback for every slight.

That was classic stuff, man.

Magilla

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 09:03 PM

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

> On Dec 1, 8:52 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>>
>>>On Nov 30, 1:23 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>LemonD did the absolute right thing - the smart thing - with Stephanie
>>>>McIlvain. Now there are 3 people who said they heard Lance admit to
>>>>using drugs in that hospital room.
>>
>>>Dumbass -
>>
>>>I'm sorry.
>>
>>>Gaining someone's trust, taping a conversation w/out their knowledge,
>>>then making it public is not right.
>>
>>>I'm sure some of your friends have done things that are wrong. Perhaps
>>>you should get them to talk about it on tape, then put it on youtube.
>>
>>>My guess is that the rest of your friends would be impressed enough to
>>>never tell you anything in confidence.
>>
>>>thanks,
>>
>>>K. Gringioni.
>>
>>LeMond only tape recorded the phone call because Lance and his clique
>>were trying to ruin his bike business with Trek and spread bad rumors
>>about him. Under these circumstances, he was completely justitifed in
>>protecting his business interests from people who he felt might be
>>sabotaging him.
>
>
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> Do you see Eddy Merckx going after Johann Museeuw? Bernard Hinault
> saying anything about Richard Virenque? Miguel Indurain taping
> conversations w/ associates of Iban Mayo?
>
> We don't see that because those guys retired gracefully. Hinault and
> Merckx have remained in the bike racing biz and have stayed above the
> fray.
>
> LemonD? He stuck it in his own ass. He's a tool.
>
> And no, I don't think LANCE is clean. I don't think bike racing in
> general is clean. I do think LemonD is a tool.
>
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.

Highlander Slayer,

What you mean, Opie, when you say "going after" Museeuw? LemonD's
opinion is nothing more than free speech - Pizzeria Uno in the
Constitution. The fact that Eddy "I had to travel to 7,880 feet above
sea level to set the hour record" Merckx doesn't say anything doesn't
say much for him - it makes him come across as the Godfather of
cycling's Doping Omerta. But then again what can Merckx say about
Museeuw given that MERCKX HIMSELF TESTED POSITIVE! Merckx has no
credibility and you gotta wonder why Landis' defense team said they
would call a hasbeen who tested positive as a character witness in a
doping case! I mean, are you ****ing kidding me with that?

Miguel Indurain....Delgado, Mayo, Heras...what a disgrace. The fact
that Indurain doesn't speak badly of his convicted Spanish boys says a
lot about what Indurain thinks about doping.

LemonD is definitely jealous of Lance. There's little doubt about that.
But in the end, the tape recording with McIlvain is excellent stuff
in this fight of the titans.

According to your metric, Lance is more of a tool for going after people
who he feels slighted him - like trying to get Franke Andreu fired from
his Tour gig on OLN for asking an "unauthorized question." And then
succeeding in getting him fired from Toyota. And then trying to get
Trek to drop the LemonD brand.

The only reason Trek didn't do that is because they knew LemonD would
sue, and Trek knows Lance is dirty so they would never want to put Lance
in a court room. LemonD's tape recorded phone call with McIlvain is a
preemptive strike against a Lance attack. Trek and Staplehead know
LemonD's got them by the sack with that McIlvain phone call. All Lance
succeeded in doing by attacking Andreu is getting Betsy a gig on NPR and
some sport's show.

Lance won't get back into cycling and he knows he needs to just leave
the sport and bang some doofus Hollywood sluts. Once his documentary
movie comes out, critics will resurrect whether the public got the whole
story. It would be like doing a documentary about Barry Bonds and never
mentioning BALCO. Word is that Matt Damon won't touch it because he
sees LA's legacy as tarnished and doesn't want to vouch for him. Damon
heard the taped phone call from McIlvain and he knows what went down in
that hospital room.

As for LemonD's testimoney at Pepperdine against ZZTop boy, USADA called
him as a witness. LemonD had no authority to inject himself into a
doping case and call himself as a witness.

USADA subpoenaed LemonD and Pap Smear as witnesses because they wanted
to rake farmer boy's character over the coals publicly in retaliation
for his public campaign against USADA. Quad Erat Demonstratum.

In the end, Floyd got a good ole barnyard ass whoopin thanks in part to
his red neck manager. Landis will never recover from this public
humiliation and his career and legacy is set in stone as the biggest
fraud in Tour de France history. Financially he is cooked. Floyd is
the poster boy for cheating in pro sports and he is yesterday's
news...unless of course he wins his appeal, in which case WADA's
credibility will be done.

But let's not kid ourselves - we all know how this story is going to
end. Floyd won't win his appeal because if he did it would mean that
WADA has no credibility as an anti-doping authority going into an
Olympic year. The "judges" on the Court of Arbitration for Sporty Spice
know what the decision needs to be to keep the gravy train flowing
(read: legal contract). Siding with Landis would also jeopardize the
billion dollar Olympic Machine. And if you follow the money, to quote
Hal Holbrook, the answer always comes out the same: Floyd has to lose
because the Olympics and WADA cannot explain a loss to the billion
dollar Olympic sponsors.

The only guy whose stock is rising amidst this trailer park soap opera
is Matt "Kid Andrenaline" DeCanio. Now that Kodak has canned its monkey
grinders and sent Walters packin back up to his AARP wife, and Floyd got
a public caning, Decanio is probably laughing his ass off in some SoBe club.

That is all,

Magilla

Kurgan Gringioni

01-03-1970, 09:04 PM

On Dec 1, 8:34 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:

>
> Miguel Indurain....Delgado, Mayo, Heras...what a disgrace. The fact
> that Indurain doesn't speak badly of his convicted Spanish boys says a
> lot about what Indurain thinks about doping.
>
> LemonD is definitely jealous of Lance. There's little doubt about that.

Oh yeah. That's what I don't like about his little crusade. He claims
he's doing it for racing, but that's a load of crock. The extreme era
of EPO abuse came before LANCE won a grand tour.

> According to your metric, Lance is more of a tool for going after people
> who he feels slighted him - like trying to get Franke Andreu fired from
> his Tour gig on OLN for asking an "unauthorized question."

LANCE isn't exactly a saint himself. I agree, he's extremely
vindictive. But, IMO, his behavior pales in comparison to LemonD's.

One of the reasons I dislike LemonD so much is I used to really look
up to that guy. He's been incredibly disappointing. What a small
little person he is. LANCE? I never had any illusions about him. He
always seemed to be an arrogant ****, so when he turned out to be one,
it was par for the course.

Obviously, your mileage may vary.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

amit.ghosh@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 09:04 PM

On Dec 2, 12:20 am, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:

> Whew. That was pretty good. Point stands, though. "Good for the
> goose", etc. Lemond's miracle comeback, from riding like **** to
> winning in such a short time, complete with "medical explanation" is t-
> totally Doper Profile. "They all doped", and Lemond beat them, so not
> only did Lemond dope, he doped more and better. Well-- that's the
> essence of the accusation against Armstrong, is it not?

no, the hospital room confession, and a growing pile of circumstantial
evidence.

> Can you tell
> me that Lemond knows for sure what was in his bloodstream?
> As for Pound, his reaction to Marion Jones' rightfully calling his a
> "kangaroo court" was (approx.) "That young woman better be careful or
> we will take all her medals away." That's "we know she was doping" in
> a most public and threatening way. Maybe not frivolous, and the fact
> that he turned out to be correct doesn't make it OK, either.

there was circumstantial evidence against her, but the evidence wasn't
enough to start a doping case. she was 'caught' not by the gov.
bodies, but because she was afraid to lie to the prosecutor.

if she lied it would've been a criminal matter, not a simply a
sporting infraction.

> Does it bother you maybe just a little that LNDD's bad
> Landis test was backed up by some fine and thorough ass-covering retro-
> testing? When "problems with chain of control" were found IRT Landis'
> specimens?

That argument was not one presented by Landis' defense team

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 09:04 PM

dustoyevsky@mac.com wrote:

> On Nov 30, 4:57 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Here's the problem with your posts - you make vague generalizations that
>>cannot be refuted because I don't even know what the **** you're talking
>>about half the time.
>>
>>So you need to refine your communications skills before I can beat the
>>be-jesus out of you.
>
>
> Sounds kinda like bending over. No thanks there.
>
>
>>Also, when I do think I understand what youa re talking about, there's
>>no point to any of it.
>>
>>For example, when you say, "there's a lot of stuff out there." What's
>>your point in stating the obvious?
>
>
> My point with that was "what can you believe"? The web is very
> tangled, you know? Some people believe jailhouse "confessions".
>
>>And then you state that your "point" is "when "we knew xyz was doping"
>>is uttered by the head dope hunter, then anyone who fits the doper
>>profile is as good as a doper." - here I assume you are talking about
>>**** Pound. But when did **** Pound ever make a frivolous accusation
>>against someone?
>
>
>>Can you give me one example?
>
>
> Whew. That was pretty good. Point stands, though. "Good for the
> goose", etc. Lemond's miracle comeback, from riding like **** to
> winning in such a short time, complete with "medical explanation" is t-
> totally Doper Profile. "They all doped", and Lemond beat them, so not
> only did Lemond dope, he doped more and better. Well-- that's the
> essence of the accusation against Armstrong, is it not? Can you tell
> me that Lemond knows for sure what was in his bloodstream?
>
> As for Pound, his reaction to Marion Jones' rightfully calling his a
> "kangaroo court" was (approx.) "That young woman better be careful or
> we will take all her medals away." That's "we know she was doping" in
> a most public and threatening way. Maybe not frivolous, and the fact
> that he turned out to be correct doesn't make it OK, either.
>

So I ask you to give me one example where Pound slandered someone and
you come up with Marion Jones? For the record, Marion Jones was the
only athlete in Olympic history that had to return 3 gold medals, all
her prize money, and is now going to federal prison.

This is the answer you give to show Pound is not credible? Why don't you
think real long and hard about that answer and then try again.

Thanks,

Magilla

P.S. Marion Jones makes Pound look like an anti-dopiing genius.

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 09:04 PM

dustoyevsky@mac.com wrote:

> On Nov 30, 4:57 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Here's the problem with your posts - you make vague generalizations that
>>cannot be refuted because I don't even know what the **** you're talking
>>about half the time.
>>
>>So you need to refine your communications skills before I can beat the
>>be-jesus out of you.
>
>
> Sounds kinda like bending over. No thanks there.
>
>
>>Also, when I do think I understand what youa re talking about, there's
>>no point to any of it.
>>
>>For example, when you say, "there's a lot of stuff out there." What's
>>your point in stating the obvious?
>
>
> My point with that was "what can you believe"? The web is very
> tangled, you know? Some people believe jailhouse "confessions".
>
>>And then you state that your "point" is "when "we knew xyz was doping"
>>is uttered by the head dope hunter, then anyone who fits the doper
>>profile is as good as a doper." - here I assume you are talking about
>>**** Pound. But when did **** Pound ever make a frivolous accusation
>>against someone?
>
>
>>Can you give me one example?
>
>
> Whew. That was pretty good. Point stands, though. "Good for the
> goose", etc. Lemond's miracle comeback, from riding like **** to
> winning in such a short time, complete with "medical explanation" is t-
> totally Doper Profile. "They all doped", and Lemond beat them, so not
> only did Lemond dope, he doped more and better. Well-- that's the
> essence of the accusation against Armstrong, is it not? Can you tell
> me that Lemond knows for sure what was in his bloodstream?
>
> As for Pound, his reaction to Marion Jones' rightfully calling his a
> "kangaroo court" was (approx.) "That young woman better be careful or
> we will take all her medals away." That's "we know she was doping" in
> a most public and threatening way. Maybe not frivolous, and the fact
> that he turned out to be correct doesn't make it OK, either.
>
> Would you want to be in a system where The Power held all the cards--
> no B tests, no transparency of process, no recourse except to confess,
> guilty or not? Does it bother you maybe just a little that LNDD's bad
> Landis test was backed up by some fine and thorough ass-covering retro-
> testing? When "problems with chain of control" were found IRT Landis'
> specimens?
>

No B test? What the hell are you talking about? The core of the WADA
code is that B-tests are done.

Landis's team never debated the chain of custody in the hearing. They
simply argued the test was wrong. If you contest the chain of custody,
there is no need to debate the test itself.

Landis's defense focused on trying to derail the test results, not to
claim it wasn't his.

What about the 7 or 8 samples of Landis's urine that also tested
positive under the IRMS test? Were those also falsifiied?

Isn't it funny how when the LNDD finds Sinkewitz positive, he admits it.
That should tell you something about the accuracy of the T:E test.

Magilla

Michael Press

01-03-1970, 09:04 PM

In article
<aa14a67d-f484-4a2f-b516-4d8ff16623d8@w28g2000hsf.googl
egroups.com>,
"dustoyevsky@mac.com" <dustoyevsky@mac.com> wrote:

> My point with that was "what can you believe"? The web is very
> tangled, you know? Some people believe jailhouse "confessions".

I don't even believe jailhouse pleas of innocence.

--
Michael Press

cyclintom@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 09:05 PM

On Dec 1, 9:47 pm, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Dec 2, 12:20 am, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > Does it bother you maybe just a little that LNDD's bad
> > Landis test was backed up by some fine and thorough ass-covering retro-
> > testing? When "problems with chain of control" were found IRT Landis'
> > specimens?
>
> That argument was not one presented by Landis' defense team

It is interesting that from the very first Landis has been saying that
he NEVER used dope. It is also interesting that Eddy Merckx was
winning and winning and winning and was threatened to stay away from
certain races or suffer the consequences. He went anyway and somehow
was found to be using drugs. He has maintained that it was a setup.

Ain't it also funny that the French were outraged that another
American had won their race? Especially someone like Landis who is so
perfectly straight forward and honest. If he HAD been doping he would
have said so.

Kurgan Gringioni

01-03-1970, 09:05 PM

On Dec 1, 9:51 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:

>
> So I ask you to give me one example where Pound slandered someone and
> you come up with Marion Jones? For the record, Marion Jones was the
> only athlete in Olympic history that had to return 3 gold medals, all
> her prize money, and is now going to federal prison.

Dumbass -

So what. There've been thousands of cheaters before her.

Quite a bit of it state-sponsored.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

dustoyevsky@mac.com

01-03-1970, 09:05 PM

On Dec 1, 11:51 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> dustoyev...@mac.com wrote:
> > On Nov 30, 4:57 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>Here's the problem with your posts - you make vague generalizations that
> >>cannot be refuted because I don't even know what the **** you're talking
> >>about half the time.
>
> >>So you need to refine your communications skills before I can beat the
> >>be-jesus out of you.
>
> > Sounds kinda like bending over. No thanks there.
>
> >>Also, when I do think I understand what youa re talking about, there's
> >>no point to any of it.
>
> >>For example, when you say, "there's a lot of stuff out there." What's
> >>your point in stating the obvious?
>
> > My point with that was "what can you believe"? The web is very
> > tangled, you know? Some people believe jailhouse "confessions".
>
> >>And then you state that your "point" is "when "we knew xyz was doping"
> >>is uttered by the head dope hunter, then anyone who fits the doper
> >>profile is as good as a doper." - here I assume you are talking about
> >>**** Pound. But when did **** Pound ever make a frivolous accusation
> >>against someone?
>
> >>Can you give me one example?
>
> > Whew. That was pretty good. Point stands, though. "Good for the
> > goose", etc. Lemond's miracle comeback, from riding like **** to
> > winning in such a short time, complete with "medical explanation" is t-
> > totally Doper Profile. "They all doped", and Lemond beat them, so not
> > only did Lemond dope, he doped more and better. Well-- that's the
> > essence of the accusation against Armstrong, is it not? Can you tell
> > me that Lemond knows for sure what was in his bloodstream?
>
> > As for Pound, his reaction to Marion Jones' rightfully calling his a
> > "kangaroo court" was (approx.) "That young woman better be careful or
> > we will take all her medals away." That's "we know she was doping" in
> > a most public and threatening way. Maybe not frivolous, and the fact
> > that he turned out to be correct doesn't make it OK, either.
>
> So I ask you to give me one example where Pound slandered someone and
> you come up with Marion Jones? For the record, Marion Jones was the
> only athlete in Olympic history that had to return 3 gold medals, all
> her prize money, and is now going to federal prison.
>
> This is the answer you give to show Pound is not credible? Why don't you
> think real long and hard about that answer and then try again.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Magilla
>
> P.S. Marion Jones makes Pound look like an anti-dopiing genius.

Slander? I was thinking about "threat".

Sure, subsequent events "proved" she doped. But the "that young woman
better be careful or we'll take all her medals away" stuff was a
threat, meant to keep her quiet about the "kangaroo court". When the
process is not transparent, when they're trying to do away with the B
test (that one came limply back down the flagpole, if you'll remember)
(thank you), when Pound as head man can make threats like that, it is
a kangaroo court, no matter who doped and who didn't.

The point is, WADA especially, and most everybody else involved, made
a big stinkin' mess, continue to make a big stinkin' mess, with the
riders as scapegoats. Are we supposed to believe that cycling is
"clean" now? The "passport" is gonna make everything right?

Where is the admission of culpability for screwing up-- making bad
rules that couldn't be enforced without giving cycling an "image
problem" it will have a very difficult time getting over? --D-y

cyclintom@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 09:05 PM

On Dec 1, 9:58 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> dustoyev...@mac.com wrote:
> > On Nov 30, 4:57 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>Here's the problem with your posts - you make vague generalizations that
> >>cannot be refuted because I don't even know what the **** you're talking
> >>about half the time.
>
> >>So you need to refine your communications skills before I can beat the
> >>be-jesus out of you.
>
> > Sounds kinda like bending over. No thanks there.
>
> >>Also, when I do think I understand what youa re talking about, there's
> >>no point to any of it.
>
> >>For example, when you say, "there's a lot of stuff out there." What's
> >>your point in stating the obvious?
>
> > My point with that was "what can you believe"? The web is very
> > tangled, you know? Some people believe jailhouse "confessions".
>
> >>And then you state that your "point" is "when "we knew xyz was doping"
> >>is uttered by the head dope hunter, then anyone who fits the doper
> >>profile is as good as a doper." - here I assume you are talking about
> >>**** Pound. But when did **** Pound ever make a frivolous accusation
> >>against someone?
>
> >>Can you give me one example?
>
> > Whew. That was pretty good. Point stands, though. "Good for the
> > goose", etc. Lemond's miracle comeback, from riding like **** to
> > winning in such a short time, complete with "medical explanation" is t-
> > totally Doper Profile. "They all doped", and Lemond beat them, so not
> > only did Lemond dope, he doped more and better. Well-- that's the
> > essence of the accusation against Armstrong, is it not? Can you tell
> > me that Lemond knows for sure what was in his bloodstream?
>
> > As for Pound, his reaction to Marion Jones' rightfully calling his a
> > "kangaroo court" was (approx.) "That young woman better be careful or
> > we will take all her medals away." That's "we know she was doping" in
> > a most public and threatening way. Maybe not frivolous, and the fact
> > that he turned out to be correct doesn't make it OK, either.
>
> > Would you want to be in a system where The Power held all the cards--
> > no B tests, no transparency of process, no recourse except to confess,
> > guilty or not? Does it bother you maybe just a little that LNDD's bad
> > Landis test was backed up by some fine and thorough ass-covering retro-
> > testing? When "problems with chain of control" were found IRT Landis'
> > specimens?
>
> No B test? What the hell are you talking about? The core of the WADA
> code is that B-tests are done.
>
> Landis's team never debated the chain of custody in the hearing. They
> simply argued the test was wrong. If you contest the chain of custody,
> there is no need to debate the test itself.
>
> Landis's defense focused on trying to derail the test results, not to
> claim it wasn't his.
>
> What about the 7 or 8 samples of Landis's urine that also tested
> positive under the IRMS test? Were those also falsifiied?
>
> Isn't it funny how when the LNDD finds Sinkewitz positive, he admits it.
> That should tell you something about the accuracy of the T:E test.

Not as funny as the fact that they weren't willing to transfer those
"tests" to another lab.

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 09:05 PM

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

> On Dec 1, 8:34 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Miguel Indurain....Delgado, Mayo, Heras...what a disgrace. The fact
>>that Indurain doesn't speak badly of his convicted Spanish boys says a
>>lot about what Indurain thinks about doping.
>>
>>LemonD is definitely jealous of Lance. There's little doubt about that.
>
>
>
> Oh yeah. That's what I don't like about his little crusade. He claims
> he's doing it for racing, but that's a load of crock. The extreme era
> of EPO abuse came before LANCE won a grand tour.
>
>
>
>>According to your metric, Lance is more of a tool for going after people
>>who he feels slighted him - like trying to get Franke Andreu fired from
>>his Tour gig on OLN for asking an "unauthorized question."
>
>
>
> LANCE isn't exactly a saint himself. I agree, he's extremely
> vindictive. But, IMO, his behavior pales in comparison to LemonD's.
>
> One of the reasons I dislike LemonD so much is I used to really look
> up to that guy. He's been incredibly disappointing. What a small
> little person he is. LANCE? I never had any illusions about him. He
> always seemed to be an arrogant ****, so when he turned out to be one,
> it was par for the course.
>
> Obviously, your mileage may vary.
>
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.

-----------

LemonD's behavior is actually less egregious. LemonD simply gives
quotes to the press when they call his house, whereas Lance picks up his
cell phone and makes phone calls with the intent to get people fired.

And people in the industry are usually so shallow and spineless they do
whatever Lance wants.

Magilla

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 09:05 PM

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> On Dec 1, 9:51 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>So I ask you to give me one example where Pound slandered someone and
>>you come up with Marion Jones? For the record, Marion Jones was the
>>only athlete in Olympic history that had to return 3 gold medals, all
>>her prize money, and is now going to federal prison.
>
>
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> So what. There've been thousands of cheaters before her.
>
> Quite a bit of it state-sponsored.
>
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.

What does this obvious declaration have to do with **** Pound? The
issue was: Who did **** Pound condemn without proof, not dopers
throughout the history of the Olympics.

**** Pound's job only existed since 2000.

Magilla

Kurgan Gringioni

01-03-1970, 09:05 PM

On Dec 2, 7:17 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> > On Dec 1, 8:34 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>Miguel Indurain....Delgado, Mayo, Heras...what a disgrace. The fact
> >>that Indurain doesn't speak badly of his convicted Spanish boys says a
> >>lot about what Indurain thinks about doping.
>
> >>LemonD is definitely jealous of Lance. There's little doubt about that.
>
> > Oh yeah. That's what I don't like about his little crusade. He claims
> > he's doing it for racing, but that's a load of crock. The extreme era
> > of EPO abuse came before LANCE won a grand tour.
>
> >>According to your metric, Lance is more of a tool for going after people
> >>who he feels slighted him - like trying to get Franke Andreu fired from
> >>his Tour gig on OLN for asking an "unauthorized question."
>
> > LANCE isn't exactly a saint himself. I agree, he's extremely
> > vindictive. But, IMO, his behavior pales in comparison to LemonD's.
>
> > One of the reasons I dislike LemonD so much is I used to really look
> > up to that guy. He's been incredibly disappointing. What a small
> > little person he is. LANCE? I never had any illusions about him. He
> > always seemed to be an arrogant ****, so when he turned out to be one,
> > it was par for the course.
>
> > Obviously, your mileage may vary.
>
> > thanks,
>
> > K. Gringioni.
>
> -----------
>
> LemonD's behavior is actually less egregious.

Dumbass -

LemonD should've just stayed out of it all. But he was too jealous.

In the end, what good did he do? Nothing. Everything would've happened
the same w/out him. He only succeeded in bringing down his own image.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

cyclintom@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 09:05 PM

On Dec 2, 7:17 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
> And people in the industry are usually so shallow and spineless they do
> whatever Lance wants.

After all - Lance has so much power - wait a minute - what power was
that again?

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 09:10 PM

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

> On Dec 2, 7:17 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>>
>>>On Dec 1, 8:34 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>Miguel Indurain....Delgado, Mayo, Heras...what a disgrace. The fact
>>>>that Indurain doesn't speak badly of his convicted Spanish boys says a
>>>>lot about what Indurain thinks about doping.
>>
>>>>LemonD is definitely jealous of Lance. There's little doubt about that.
>>
>>>Oh yeah. That's what I don't like about his little crusade. He claims
>>>he's doing it for racing, but that's a load of crock. The extreme era
>>>of EPO abuse came before LANCE won a grand tour.
>>
>>>>According to your metric, Lance is more of a tool for going after people
>>>>who he feels slighted him - like trying to get Franke Andreu fired from
>>>>his Tour gig on OLN for asking an "unauthorized question."
>>
>>>LANCE isn't exactly a saint himself. I agree, he's extremely
>>>vindictive. But, IMO, his behavior pales in comparison to LemonD's.
>>
>>>One of the reasons I dislike LemonD so much is I used to really look
>>>up to that guy. He's been incredibly disappointing. What a small
>>>little person he is. LANCE? I never had any illusions about him. He
>>>always seemed to be an arrogant ****, so when he turned out to be one,
>>>it was par for the course.
>>
>>>Obviously, your mileage may vary.
>>
>>>thanks,
>>
>>>K. Gringioni.
>>
>>-----------
>>
>>LemonD's behavior is actually less egregious.
>
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> LemonD should've just stayed out of it all. But he was too jealous.
>
> In the end, what good did he do? Nothing. Everything would've happened
> the same w/out him. He only succeeded in bringing down his own image.
>
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.

LemonD succeeded in recording a phone call with Stephanie McIlvain, one
of Lance's closest business agents. She has NO REASON to lie about him.

Yet she admitted she heard LA say in that hospital room he took banned
substances for years.

This is huge circumstantial evidence. It would send most people to jail
if it were the only evidence in a criminal trial.

LemonD did stay out of it - he simply gave quotes to newspaper reporters
who called him up and asked him what his thoughts were. It was LA (and
then Floyd) who called him, the former trying to get Trek to dump his
bike business. That's when LemonD started to retaliate.

LA woke a sleeping tiger and as a result the public now has the
Stephanie McIlvain phone call. That phone call is very telling because
it comes from a person who has no reason to lie about Lance (and in fact
has motive to lie to protect him).

So now we know what happened in that hospital room thanks to a jealous,
tool LemonD.

Magilla

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 09:12 PM

gym.gravity wrote:

> On Nov 30, 12:31 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>>dustoyev...@mac.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Nov 30, 2:10 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>>
>>>>>On Nov 29, 5:59 pm, "xzzy" <mrbikej...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>K. Gringioni.
>>
>>>>>>Dumbass
>>
>>>>>>and further
>>
>>>>>>Marion Jones,
>>
>>>>>> Virenque, Festina, . . .
>>
>>>>>> the tour of france for removing from the results, racers who admit to
>>>>>>racing drugged, but not removing france's racers convicted of racing the tof
>>>>>>drugged
>>
>>>>>> the tour of france for changing the results of a drug test in order
>>>>>>remove from the results, Floyd Landis, because an American cyclist had won
>>>>>>their country's race for the 8th year in a row.
>>
>>>>>Dumbasses -
>>
>>>>>LemonD (and OJ Simpson) stand out from the rest because all those
>>>>>examples you all give, while being excellent specimens of sporting
>>>>>disgrace, all sullied their reputations with actions performed
>>>>>*during* their career.
>>
>>>>>LemonD (and OJ) are unique in that they had exceptionally stellar
>>>>>careers, then blackened their reputations with jackassian behavior
>>>>>well after they had retired.
>>
>>>>>I'm sure there are other examples of this phenomenon, but I can't, at
>>>>>the moment, think of others who have done it as publicly.
>>
>>>>>Any other examples? Buehler?
>>
>>>>>thanks,
>>
>>>>>K. Gringioni.
>>
>>>>I use to think that too until I listened to the phone call LeMond
>>>>surreptitiously recorded between him and Lance's Oaklay agent Stephanie
>>>>McIlvain where McIlvain clearly indicated she heard Lance admit to using
>>>> drugs in that hospital room. She has no motive to lie about her bread
>>>>and butter client.
>>
>>>>She also implicated Hincapie in being a big-time doper and said his baby
>>>>would probably turn out deformed from all the drugs he did. It was
>>>>pretty funny stuff.
>>
>>>>Prior to hearing that phone call, LeMond came across as a jealous
>>>>bagpipe. After listening to it, LeMond comes across as a one-man
>>>>Woodward & Bernstein show.
>>
>>>Lemond is a jealous bagpipe who is lucky he didn't dope when he could
>>>be caught-- can't ride in the Giro, wins the Tour in the same year?
>>
>>>Give us a break.
>>
>>>If the guy next to you can dope with little-to-no fear of being
>>>caught, the fault is with the rule makers.
>>
>>>"Cleansing Sport for corporate sponsorship". Go Enron! --D-y
>>
>>LeMond did in fact ride in the Giro when he won the Tour in his
>>coomeback year of 1989. If you recall, he got like 2nd in the Giro time
>>trial, but up until that time was having a miserable Giro, most likely
>>because he was a bit overweight and underraced.
>>
>>EPO wasn't even in use back then, so what drugs was he doing?
>>
>>Also, even if LeMond were jealous, that doesn't nullify the content of
>>the phone call with McIlvain.
>>
>>You sound like you're just pissed off because Floyd got caught.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Magilla- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>- Show quoted text -
>
>
> hey, talkin' literally, b vitamins and iron means b vitamins and
> iron. what about not so literally, and more primitive than epo.
>
> Still no responses from greg or "anyone else" in my email.

It's just supposition that will never be proven, so what's the point of
this guessing game?

Magilla