Throwing down the gauntlet

[joseph.santaniello@gmail.com]

Hi All,

Next year is going to be my breakout year.

Here are my results from this year for events I care about:

Vestfold Rundt: 165km hilly with some flat in the middle in 4:42
(winners 4:10)
Baglerrunden: 62km hilly in 1:44 (winners 1:34)
Trondheim-Oslo: 540km in 18:40 (winners 14:??)
Melfar24: 592km in 24 hours on rolling hills (winner 720km)
local ITT: 10km on road bike in 14:56
local road races: I got dropped in all 5 or 6 I entered.

So I need some motivational numbers to strive for. I need some goals
and wagers from all you retards to set the bar, merciless crowd that
you are, I think this will help.

Joseph

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

On Dec 4, 11:24 am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Next year is going to be my breakout year.
>
> Here are my results from this year for events I care about:
>
> Vestfold Rundt: 165km hilly with some flat in the middle in 4:42
> (winners 4:10)
> Baglerrunden: 62km hilly in 1:44 (winners 1:34)
> Trondheim-Oslo: 540km in 18:40 (winners 14:??)
> Melfar24: 592km in 24 hours on rolling hills (winner 720km)
> local ITT: 10km on road bike in 14:56
> local road races: I got dropped in all 5 or 6 I entered.
>
> So I need some motivational numbers to strive for. I need some goals
> and wagers from all you retards to set the bar, merciless crowd that
> you are, I think this will help.

Strive for #1. It is the only number that matters.

Don't go to races and have them be the hardest thing you've done.
Train with people who are better than you such that they put the hurt
on you week in and week out. Suffer. The training rides should be
very similar to an actual race. Then when you get to the dorky low
category race, it will seem very easy. It worked for me. You can
always upgrade to your level of incompetance later.

Good luck.

Oh yeah,... slim down.

[Tom Kunich]

<joseph.santaniello@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2b404125-a00a-450b-9d74-76319c00c78f@b15g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Next year is going to be my breakout year.

Remember this - next year is ALWAYS easier than this year. As you gain
experience you gain fitness and it all means that you find where you can
ride.

Good luck and I hope you don't find your level for a long time.

[MagillaGorilla]

joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Next year is going to be my breakout year.
>
> Here are my results from this year for events I care about:
>
> Vestfold Rundt: 165km hilly with some flat in the middle in 4:42
> (winners 4:10)
> Baglerrunden: 62km hilly in 1:44 (winners 1:34)
> Trondheim-Oslo: 540km in 18:40 (winners 14:??)
> Melfar24: 592km in 24 hours on rolling hills (winner 720km)
> local ITT: 10km on road bike in 14:56
> local road races: I got dropped in all 5 or 6 I entered.
>
> So I need some motivational numbers to strive for. I need some goals
> and wagers from all you retards to set the bar, merciless crowd that
> you are, I think this will help.
>
> Joseph


Unless you are making money from racing or you are under 25 years of
age, you will find no worthwhile motivational speech from me to race
your bike. That's why top pros who retire don't compete in master's
categories.

Racing for "fun" is stupid and not even a top pro could find the
incentive (or logical reason) to put in the necessary training and
travelling when the benefit is NOTHING.

So if you want to ride faster, the first thing you need to learn is you
cannot fabricate motivation when there really is none. Amateur racing
has NO MOTIVATIONAL INCENTIVE unless you're still young and have the
desire to do that sort of thing. It can be fun if you're in college or
travelling with some buddies. But once you get to a certain age, racing
is stupid, and a complete waste of time.

Once you lose incentive, don't bother trying to invent one because there
really never was a worthwhile one to begin with.

Of course, you can do what most people in here do: ride 100 miles/week
and spend $2,500 on a power meter and then drive 110 miles at 5 a.m. to
a parking lot crit to compete for $250. And in the process, you can
risk crashing and causing $1,250 in equipment damage and maybe another
$3,000 in hospital bills.

If you win a lot, you can go around and tell everyone you're the No. 2
ranked Cat 3 in your district and think that actually means something in
life.



Magilla

[williepoo]

Train high and race even higher.This is something that Bob Roll has
discussed in depth.

[MagillaGorilla]

williepoo wrote:

> Train high and race even higher.This is something that Bob Roll has
> discussed in depth.


Marijuana won't help your power, Boston George. Which is why I advise
aspiring racers to do as Juan Pablo Castro did (Cat II from NY), which
is to smuggle cocaine in your rectum and then try to board an
international flight, get caught, and then spend several years in the
bighouse.

I'm JT knows the details better than me.


Magilla

[joseph.santaniello@gmail.com]

On Dec 5, 5:55 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> joseph.santanie...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Hi All,
>
> > Next year is going to be my breakout year.
>
> > Here are my results from this year for events I care about:
>
> > Vestfold Rundt: 165km hilly with some flat in the middle in 4:42
> > (winners 4:10)
> > Baglerrunden: 62km hilly in 1:44 (winners 1:34)
> > Trondheim-Oslo: 540km in 18:40 (winners 14:??)
> > Melfar24: 592km in 24 hours on rolling hills (winner 720km)
> > local ITT: 10km on road bike in 14:56
> > local road races: I got dropped in all 5 or 6 I entered.
>
> > So I need some motivational numbers to strive for. I need some goals
> > and wagers from all you retards to set the bar, merciless crowd that
> > you are, I think this will help.
>
> > Joseph
>
> Unless you are making money from racing or you are under 25 years of
> age, you will find no worthwhile motivational speech from me to race
> your bike. That's why top pros who retire don't compete in master's
> categories.

I think they don't race because they are either burned out, or afraid
they'll get their asses kicked.

>
> Racing for "fun" is stupid and not even a top pro could find the
> incentive (or logical reason) to put in the necessary training and
> travelling when the benefit is NOTHING.
>
> So if you want to ride faster, the first thing you need to learn is you
> cannot fabricate motivation when there really is none. Amateur racing
> has NO MOTIVATIONAL INCENTIVE unless you're still young and have the
> desire to do that sort of thing. It can be fun if you're in college or
> travelling with some buddies. But once you get to a certain age, racing
> is stupid, and a complete waste of time.

I have big fun at my events and on training rides with the guys (who
are all faster than me). That in itself is enough to keep doing it.
But it would be more fun to not get dropped...

>
> Once you lose incentive, don't bother trying to invent one because there
> really never was a worthwhile one to begin with.

I don't need motivation, I need something to help me not make excuses.
All the guys I ride with try to be supportive, but all they really see
is that I get dropped, and say "good job!" when I roll across the line
and they are already in their cars. I tell myself I want to be able to
hang with them, but when I have my own personal goal posts, it's too
easy for me to make changes and justifications along the way to
accomodate my laziness. I figure putting it in a public forum like
this will help me keep my focus. Folks reminding me in a few months
about what a big talker I was, why no results?

>
> Of course, you can do what most people in here do: ride 100 miles/week
> and spend $2,500 on a power meter and then drive 110 miles at 5 a.m. to
> a parking lot crit to compete for $250. And in the process, you can
> risk crashing and causing $1,250 in equipment damage and maybe another
> $3,000 in hospital bills.

No crits for me! And I go at more like 200 per week. And anyway I have
a $100 deductible on my bike insurance for any damage for any reason.
Not that that is what keeps me from falling every chance I can get.
But as much as I'm curious about what it would say, I'm with you on
the powermeter. I just need to ride more and lose weight. No PhD
required.

> If you win a lot, you can go around and tell everyone you're the No. 2
> ranked Cat 3 in your district and think that actually means something in
> life.

If that doesn't mean something in life, what does? ;-)

Joseph

[Mark Fennell]

MagillaGorilla pontificated:
> Unless you are making money from racing or you are under 25 years of age,
> you will find no worthwhile motivational speech from me to race your bike.
> That's why top pros who retire don't compete in master's categories.
>
> Racing for "fun" is stupid and not even a top pro could find the incentive
> (or logical reason) to put in the necessary training and travelling when
> the benefit is NOTHING.
>
> So if you want to ride faster, the first thing you need to learn is you
> cannot fabricate motivation when there really is none. Amateur racing has
> NO MOTIVATIONAL INCENTIVE unless you're still young and have the desire to
> do that sort of thing. It can be fun if you're in college or travelling
> with some buddies. But once you get to a certain age, racing is stupid,
> and a complete waste of time.
>
> Once you lose incentive, don't bother trying to invent one because there
> really never was a worthwhile one to begin with.
>
> Of course, you can do what most people in here do: ride 100 miles/week and
> spend $2,500 on a power meter and then drive 110 miles at 5 a.m. to a
> parking lot crit to compete for $250. And in the process, you can risk
> crashing and causing $1,250 in equipment damage and maybe another $3,000
> in hospital bills.
>
> If you win a lot, you can go around and tell everyone you're the No. 2
> ranked Cat 3 in your district and think that actually means something in
> life.
>

At the risk of giving Magilla an even bigger head and a big gorilla boner, I
have to admit his posts are providing some damn good rbr entertainment for
this reader.

Unfortunately, I've failed to take his advice above in almost every respect,
so now I'm out the door for a good 3-hour ride... (btw, thanks Greg...
you're supporting me too)

Mark
http://marcofanelli.blogspot.com

[billb]

On Dec 5, 11:55 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> joseph.santanie...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Hi All,
>
> > Next year is going to be my breakout year.
>
> > Here are my results from this year for events I care about:
>
> > Vestfold Rundt: 165km hilly with some flat in the middle in 4:42
> > (winners 4:10)
> > Baglerrunden: 62km hilly in 1:44 (winners 1:34)
> > Trondheim-Oslo: 540km in 18:40 (winners 14:??)
> > Melfar24: 592km in 24 hours on rolling hills (winner 720km)
> > local ITT: 10km on road bike in 14:56
> > local road races: I got dropped in all 5 or 6 I entered.
>
> > So I need some motivational numbers to strive for. I need some goals
> > and wagers from all you retards to set the bar, merciless crowd that
> > you are, I think this will help.
>
> > Joseph
>
> Unless you are making money from racing or you are under 25 years of
> age, you will find no worthwhile motivational speech from me to race
> your bike. That's why top pros who retire don't compete in master's
> categories.
>
> Racing for "fun" is stupid and not even a top pro could find the
> incentive (or logical reason) to put in the necessary training and
> travelling when the benefit is NOTHING.
>
> So if you want to ride faster, the first thing you need to learn is you
> cannot fabricate motivation when there really is none. Amateur racing
> has NO MOTIVATIONAL INCENTIVE unless you're still young and have the
> desire to do that sort of thing. It can be fun if you're in college or
> travelling with some buddies. But once you get to a certain age, racing
> is stupid, and a complete waste of time.
>
> Once you lose incentive, don't bother trying to invent one because there
> really never was a worthwhile one to begin with.
>
> Of course, you can do what most people in here do: ride 100 miles/week
> and spend $2,500 on a power meter and then drive 110 miles at 5 a.m. to
> a parking lot crit to compete for $250. And in the process, you can
> risk crashing and causing $1,250 in equipment damage and maybe another
> $3,000 in hospital bills.
>
> If you win a lot, you can go around and tell everyone you're the No. 2
> ranked Cat 3 in your district and think that actually means something in
> life.
>
> Magilla- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Get your mama to give you a hug, a smoochie and tell you're a good boy
no matter what anyone says.
Best,
Bill Black

[dustoyevsky@mac.com]

On Dec 5, 10:55 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:

> Unless you are making money from racing or you are under 25 years of
> age, you will find no worthwhile motivational speech from me to race
> your bike. That's why top pros who retire don't compete in master's
> categories.
>
> Racing for "fun" is stupid and not even a top pro could find the
> incentive (or logical reason) to put in the necessary training and
> travelling when the benefit is NOTHING.
>
> So if you want to ride faster, the first thing you need to learn is you
> cannot fabricate motivation when there really is none. Amateur racing
> has NO MOTIVATIONAL INCENTIVE unless you're still young and have the
> desire to do that sort of thing. It can be fun if you're in college or
> travelling with some buddies. But once you get to a certain age, racing
> is stupid, and a complete waste of time.
>
> Once you lose incentive, don't bother trying to invent one because there
> really never was a worthwhile one to begin with.

> If you win a lot, you can go around and tell everyone you're the No. 2
> ranked Cat 3 in your district and think that actually means something in
> life.

What did you not put into, and/or take away from, bicycle racing that
has left you so... bitter?

Not that I couldn't agree with you here and there.

--D-cat-III-since-1982-y

PS Should I downgrade? What do you think?

[cyclintom@gmail.com]

On Dec 5, 8:55 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
> If you win a lot, you can go around and tell everyone you're the No. 2
> ranked Cat 3 in your district and think that actually means something in
> life.

Joe - this is what happens to people who can't find motivation to have
fun doing what they love to do. Remember this every time your kids
wakes you up in the middle of the night, every time you're thinking
twice about that last hill sprint and when your wife wants you to miss
your race so that you can attend a PTA function with her.

[MagillaGorilla]

joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:

> On Dec 5, 5:55 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>>joseph.santanie...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>Hi All,
>>
>>>Next year is going to be my breakout year.
>>
>>>Here are my results from this year for events I care about:
>>
>>>Vestfold Rundt: 165km hilly with some flat in the middle in 4:42
>>>(winners 4:10)
>>>Baglerrunden: 62km hilly in 1:44 (winners 1:34)
>>>Trondheim-Oslo: 540km in 18:40 (winners 14:??)
>>>Melfar24: 592km in 24 hours on rolling hills (winner 720km)
>>>local ITT: 10km on road bike in 14:56
>>>local road races: I got dropped in all 5 or 6 I entered.
>>
>>>So I need some motivational numbers to strive for. I need some goals
>>>and wagers from all you retards to set the bar, merciless crowd that
>>>you are, I think this will help.
>>
>>>Joseph
>>
>>Unless you are making money from racing or you are under 25 years of
>>age, you will find no worthwhile motivational speech from me to race
>>your bike. That's why top pros who retire don't compete in master's
>>categories.
>
>
> I think they don't race because they are either burned out, or afraid
> they'll get their asses kicked.
>
>
>>Racing for "fun" is stupid and not even a top pro could find the
>>incentive (or logical reason) to put in the necessary training and
>>travelling when the benefit is NOTHING.
>>
>>So if you want to ride faster, the first thing you need to learn is you
>>cannot fabricate motivation when there really is none. Amateur racing
>>has NO MOTIVATIONAL INCENTIVE unless you're still young and have the
>>desire to do that sort of thing. It can be fun if you're in college or
>>travelling with some buddies. But once you get to a certain age, racing
>>is stupid, and a complete waste of time.
>
>
> I have big fun at my events and on training rides with the guys (who
> are all faster than me). That in itself is enough to keep doing it.
> But it would be more fun to not get dropped...
>
>


Santana,

It sounds to me like you're not training correctly.

Most guys serious about racing hate their training partners and
teammates. One of the reasons I love riding with guys who race is to
hear them talk about how much they hate their current and old teammates
and how pathetic these arguments get about so-and-so "not leading me out
for the lap 15 prime like we planned in the team meeting." My favorite
arguments are the ones where the one guy accuses the "A-team leaders" on
the Saturday group ride of hammering when one of the slower riders on
the B-team stops to take a leak. Attacking people on group rides when
they flat or have to water the plants is probably one of the most
beautiful traditions that define the sport of amateur cycling.

If you ride with people who are friendly and courteous, then chances are
they're not Type A enough to be any good at racing and you should go
find yourself some real a-holes to teach you (95% of all bike races fit
this description) so you can learn how to act more like a real a-hole
bike racer.

Thanks,

Magilla

[MagillaGorilla]

joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:

> On Dec 5, 5:55 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>>joseph.santanie...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>Hi All,
>>
>>>Next year is going to be my breakout year.
>>
>>>Here are my results from this year for events I care about:
>>
>>>Vestfold Rundt: 165km hilly with some flat in the middle in 4:42
>>>(winners 4:10)
>>>Baglerrunden: 62km hilly in 1:44 (winners 1:34)
>>>Trondheim-Oslo: 540km in 18:40 (winners 14:??)
>>>Melfar24: 592km in 24 hours on rolling hills (winner 720km)
>>>local ITT: 10km on road bike in 14:56
>>>local road races: I got dropped in all 5 or 6 I entered.
>>
>>>So I need some motivational numbers to strive for. I need some goals
>>>and wagers from all you retards to set the bar, merciless crowd that
>>>you are, I think this will help.
>>
>>>Joseph
>>
>>Unless you are making money from racing or you are under 25 years of
>>age, you will find no worthwhile motivational speech from me to race
>>your bike. That's why top pros who retire don't compete in master's
>>categories.
>
>
> I think they don't race because they are either burned out, or afraid
> they'll get their asses kicked.
>
>
>>Racing for "fun" is stupid and not even a top pro could find the
>>incentive (or logical reason) to put in the necessary training and
>>travelling when the benefit is NOTHING.
>>
>>So if you want to ride faster, the first thing you need to learn is you
>>cannot fabricate motivation when there really is none. Amateur racing
>>has NO MOTIVATIONAL INCENTIVE unless you're still young and have the
>>desire to do that sort of thing. It can be fun if you're in college or
>>travelling with some buddies. But once you get to a certain age, racing
>>is stupid, and a complete waste of time.
>
>
> I have big fun at my events and on training rides with the guys (who
> are all faster than me). That in itself is enough to keep doing it.
> But it would be more fun to not get dropped...
>
>
>>Once you lose incentive, don't bother trying to invent one because there
>>really never was a worthwhile one to begin with.
>
>
> I don't need motivation, I need something to help me not make excuses.
> All the guys I ride with try to be supportive, but all they really see
> is that I get dropped, and say "good job!" when I roll across the line
> and they are already in their cars. I tell myself I want to be able to
> hang with them, but when I have my own personal goal posts, it's too
> easy for me to make changes and justifications along the way to
> accomodate my laziness. I figure putting it in a public forum like
> this will help me keep my focus. Folks reminding me in a few months
> about what a big talker I was, why no results?
>

> Joseph
>

Joey Joey Joey...what you need is some EPO and a box of testosterone
patches. You should ramp your hematocrit up to around 61 and hit the
T-patch right after coming off a block of 350-mile weeks. And then
nonchalantly show up to the Saturday morning group ride and KICK THE
**** out of everyone and then tell them you didn't even touch your bike
for the past 2 weeks.

You need a little more style and attitude before you can hope to become
a solid amateur racer.


Magilla

[cyclintom@gmail.com]

On Dec 5, 9:20 am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have big fun at my events and on training rides with the guys (who
> are all faster than me). That in itself is enough to keep doing it.
> But it would be more fun to not get dropped...

If you ride road races you'll simply get dropped and never improve
significantly. If you race crits you can see the pack the whole time
and you burn yourself out trying to keep up. Eventually that
motivation keeps you in for the whole race, then you find yourself
riding in the pack and eventually you discover that much to your
surprise you can ride on the front with the big dogs.

Live while you can. When you stop racing the fitness feels like it
will last the rest of your life but it only lasts until next spring.

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

On Dec 5, 9:26 am, "Mark Fennell" <marco_fenne...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Unfortunately, I've failed to take his advice above in almost every respect,
> so now I'm out the door for a good 3-hour ride... (btw, thanks Greg...
> you're supporting me too)

That's my call to talk to flowers....

Only 3 hours? I encourage all my pet primates to ride during all
their "work" hours. That way you have less time to destroy
civilization. A public servant that wanted to annoy me would work
very hard and diligently.

Making small conversation, I have it on good information that my
astronomer pet isn't just trying to destroy the earth via global
warming (by the guvmint overbuilding roads and incentivizing coal-
fired plants), but he is actually a Sith Lord trying to destroy all
that is good and light in the universe:

"A universe with a truncated lifespan may come hand in hand with the
ability of astronomers to make cosmological measurements, according to
two American scientists who have studied the strange, subtle and
cosmic implications of quantum mechanics, the most successful theory
we have."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=&xml=/earth/2007/11/21/scicosmos121.xml

It is high time for a Save-the-Universe tax! Think of it sort of like
social security: insurance but yet not really.

On the upside, his attempts at building a better y = mx + b appear
harmless so far(http://mingus.as.arizona.edu/~bjw/tkrs_kinematics/
fitprogs.html). We'll see!!!

As a feeling and generous person, I don't want you to get hurt. You
pets stay away from real competition and stick to the ersatz
competition we call bike racing.

[joseph.santaniello@gmail.com]

On Dec 5, 7:25 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> joseph.santanie...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Dec 5, 5:55 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>joseph.santanie...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>>Hi All,
>
> >>>Next year is going to be my breakout year.
>
> >>>Here are my results from this year for events I care about:
>
> >>>Vestfold Rundt: 165km hilly with some flat in the middle in 4:42
> >>>(winners 4:10)
> >>>Baglerrunden: 62km hilly in 1:44 (winners 1:34)
> >>>Trondheim-Oslo: 540km in 18:40 (winners 14:??)
> >>>Melfar24: 592km in 24 hours on rolling hills (winner 720km)
> >>>local ITT: 10km on road bike in 14:56
> >>>local road races: I got dropped in all 5 or 6 I entered.
>
> >>>So I need some motivational numbers to strive for. I need some goals
> >>>and wagers from all you retards to set the bar, merciless crowd that
> >>>you are, I think this will help.
>
> >>>Joseph
>
> >>Unless you are making money from racing or you are under 25 years of
> >>age, you will find no worthwhile motivational speech from me to race
> >>your bike. That's why top pros who retire don't compete in master's
> >>categories.
>
> > I think they don't race because they are either burned out, or afraid
> > they'll get their asses kicked.
>
> >>Racing for "fun" is stupid and not even a top pro could find the
> >>incentive (or logical reason) to put in the necessary training and
> >>travelling when the benefit is NOTHING.
>
> >>So if you want to ride faster, the first thing you need to learn is you
> >>cannot fabricate motivation when there really is none. Amateur racing
> >>has NO MOTIVATIONAL INCENTIVE unless you're still young and have the
> >>desire to do that sort of thing. It can be fun if you're in college or
> >>travelling with some buddies. But once you get to a certain age, racing
> >>is stupid, and a complete waste of time.
>
> > I have big fun at my events and on training rides with the guys (who
> > are all faster than me). That in itself is enough to keep doing it.
> > But it would be more fun to not get dropped...
>
> Santana,
>
> It sounds to me like you're not training correctly.
>
> Most guys serious about racing hate their training partners and
> teammates. One of the reasons I love riding with guys who race is to
> hear them talk about how much they hate their current and old teammates
> and how pathetic these arguments get about so-and-so "not leading me out
> for the lap 15 prime like we planned in the team meeting." My favorite
> arguments are the ones where the one guy accuses the "A-team leaders" on
> the Saturday group ride of hammering when one of the slower riders on
> the B-team stops to take a leak. Attacking people on group rides when
> they flat or have to water the plants is probably one of the most
> beautiful traditions that define the sport of amateur cycling.
>
> If you ride with people who are friendly and courteous, then chances are
> they're not Type A enough to be any good at racing and you should go
> find yourself some real a-holes to teach you (95% of all bike races fit
> this description) so you can learn how to act more like a real a-hole
> bike racer.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Magilla

I think some of these guys are going to change their tune the day they
can't drop me up the local hills.

Joseph

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:42:12 -0500, MagillaGorilla
<magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:

>williepoo wrote:
>
>> Train high and race even higher.This is something that Bob Roll has
>> discussed in depth.
>
>
>Marijuana won't help your power, Boston George. Which is why I advise
>aspiring racers to do as Juan Pablo Castro did (Cat II from NY), which
>is to smuggle cocaine in your rectum and then try to board an
>international flight, get caught, and then spend several years in the
>bighouse.
>
>I'm JT knows the details better than me.
>
I don't know details and am just glad he's out of prison and back.

[Donald Munro]

MagillaGorilla wrote:
>> Racing for "fun" is stupid and not even a top pro could find the
>> incentive (or logical reason) to put in the necessary training and
>> travelling when the benefit is NOTHING.

billb wrote:
> Get your mama to give you a hug, a smoochie and tell you're a good boy no
> matter what anyone says.

His mama can't give him a smoochie because she's working
the harbour.

[Donald Munro]

SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
> On the upside, his attempts at building a better y = mx + b appear
> harmless so far(http://mingus.as.arizona.edu/~bjw/tkrs_kinematics/
> fitprogs.html). We'll see!!!

Its really a plot to allow the guvmint to use a higher m and
b when calculating your tax increase.

[Ted van de Weteringe]

SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
> On the upside, his attempts at building a better y = mx + b appear
> harmless so far(http://mingus.as.arizona.edu/~bjw/tkrs_kinematics/fitprogs.html).

Weiner uses GOTO.
http://simplythebest.net/sounds/WAV/WAV_files/cartoon_WAV_files/haha.wav

[bjw@mambo.ucolick.org]

On Dec 6, 1:24 am, Ted van de Weteringe <myfulln...@xs4all.nl.invalid>
wrote:
> SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
>
> > On the upside, his attempts at building a better y = mx + b appear
> > harmless so far(http://mingus.as.arizona.edu/~bjw/tkrs_kinematics/fitprogs.html).
>
> Weiner uses GOTO.
> http://simplythebest.net/sounds/WAV/WAV_files/cartoon_WAV_files/haha.wav

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html

"Real Programmers can write five page long DO loops without getting
confused."
"The typical Real Programmer lives in front of a computer
terminal. ...
Taped to the wall is a line-printer Snoopy calendar for the year
1969."

During my thesis, I was given a 8000 line fluid dynamics code
written by a crazy Dutch guy and no documentation or copy of the
input files; I had to reverse engineer that. And yeah, at one point
the
code _did_ deliberately reference an array out of bounds (inside a
common block). If you want clean code, hire a CS major; if you want
to get **** done, hire a freak who learned Fortran by reading some
bigger freak's code.

Ben
I really did work someplace once where that Datamation article
was pinned to the bulletin board.

[MagillaGorilla]

cyclintom@gmail.com wrote:

> On Dec 5, 8:55 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>>If you win a lot, you can go around and tell everyone you're the No. 2
>>ranked Cat 3 in your district and think that actually means something in
>>life.
>
>
> Joe - this is what happens to people who can't find motivation to have
> fun doing what they love to do. Remember this every time your kids
> wakes you up in the middle of the night, every time you're thinking
> twice about that last hill sprint and when your wife wants you to miss
> your race so that you can attend a PTA function with her.


Dude,

You need to calm down, Taxi Driver. Stop downloading B arry Manilow
songs for a minute and pay attention.

I'm not telling people NEVER to race or NEVER to ride their bike.

You gotta admit...some people in here treat Cat. 3 and Cat. 2 racing
like it really matters in life.

If it did, most pros would continue to race amateur classes after they
retire. But they don't. No pro in the world races amateur classes
because they can't figure out what the ****ing purpose of doing that
aimless task would be. You're basically training 80% of what a pro
does but getting NONE OF THE BENEFITS (i.e. financial).

It's funny to sit here and listen to how precise everyone gets about
their wattage and their training techniques. But they can't answer the
most fundmanetal question that their psyche will eventually ask every
amateur racer whose done it long enough: why does any of that stuff
matter when you're not making any money doing it and the act of bike
racing itself really can't be considered fun. Is it really fun to wake
up at 5 a.m. and drive 108 miles only to scrape the skin off your
shoulder in turn 3 because some jackass took the reactor to 105% of
power through the turn in the rain?

It just cracks me up to go on a group ride with some a-hole racers (95%
of you fit this profile) and listen to them take their racing so
seriously as if winning the Thursday night crit in the corporate park
will get them the cover of Cycle Sport, a 6-figure contract, and the
ability to finger Gisele Bunchen.

If you win a race that pays out $350, why are you so happy when you're
suppose to split that with your 5 teammates and have the knowledge that
it took you 300 hours of training and maybe another $750 in new
equipment and maintence to get there not to mention gas, tolls, and
other miscellenous costs. Even when you throw in your free socks and 10%
A-Team discount at the race shop, you're still in the red. And if you
say you do it for the competition and fun, then who are kidding with
that - all you did is dumb down the competition through age and other
arbitrary USAC-category metrics and then beat those lepers. So you won
a leper colony race.

In case you haven't figured it out yet, the reason why most pros dope is
because they realize the only thing that matters in cycling is winning
big races and getting lots of money. Otherwise, most pros don't even
like bike racing or training and most of them would never have become
amateur racers had they not made it as a pro.

When Bettini comes to race the Tour of California, his main goal is to
take his wife and kids to Disneyland and load up on some jeans and
souvenirs and then figure out how he's gonna lie on the customs form so
he doesn't have to delcare any of it.

If you were to find The Cricket in the food court of a California
shopping mall and tell him that there was the "District Cat. 3
Championships" going on right now in the parking lot, he would probably
act fake-excited out of respect, but he would never leave the Orange
Julius line he was standing in.

Most amateur racers don't get better because they don't think like a
pro. If they did, they would just load up on the EPO and testosterone
and spend their time trying to figure out how to get a 72 hour jump on
the OOC testers from USADA. Because all you're really doing is racing
in a big leper colony anyway.

There use to be a time - before Lance came on the scene - back in the
late 1980's when Jonas Carney and Roberto "I do Bagels" Gaggioli were
the big men on campus. It was a day when it was a big deal to win
Somerville and when guys like Wayne Stetina and John Howard were viewed
as heroes. Today, having a goal of winning Somerville borders on
embarassment. And when you look back on the career of John Howard, you
gotta wonder why a guy would waste his time doing that for nothing.
Local races are now relegated to the equivalent of a leper colony
sporting event.

And most of the age-classified races you dumbasses aspire to win call
into question your sanity. Put your rollers away. Stop staring at your
SRM graphs. And get with the program.


Magilla

[dustoyevsky@mac.com]

On Dec 6, 8:23 am, cyclin...@gmail.com wrote:

> Live while you can. When you stop racing the fitness feels like it
> will last the rest of your life but it only lasts until next spring.

Two weeks. Three, tops.

OTOH, without compulsion, there is no achievement.

Train to race to train to... etc. etc. Some people can do it for
years, with careers and kids and charity work, too.
--D-y

[joseph.santaniello@gmail.com]

On Dec 6, 10:59 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> cyclin...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Dec 5, 8:55 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>If you win a lot, you can go around and tell everyone you're the No. 2
> >>ranked Cat 3 in your district and think that actually means something in
> >>life.
>
> > Joe - this is what happens to people who can't find motivation to have
> > fun doing what they love to do. Remember this every time your kids
> > wakes you up in the middle of the night, every time you're thinking
> > twice about that last hill sprint and when your wife wants you to miss
> > your race so that you can attend a PTA function with her.
>
> Dude,
>
> You need to calm down, Taxi Driver. Stop downloading B arry Manilow
> songs for a minute and pay attention.
>
> I'm not telling people NEVER to race or NEVER to ride their bike.
>
> You gotta admit...some people in here treat Cat. 3 and Cat. 2 racing
> like it really matters in life.
>
> If it did, most pros would continue to race amateur classes after they
> retire. But they don't. No pro in the world races amateur classes
> because they can't figure out what the ****ing purpose of doing that
> aimless task would be. You're basically training 80% of what a pro
> does but getting NONE OF THE BENEFITS (i.e. financial).
>
> It's funny to sit here and listen to how precise everyone gets about
> their wattage and their training techniques. But they can't answer the
> most fundmanetal question that their psyche will eventually ask every
> amateur racer whose done it long enough: why does any of that stuff
> matter when you're not making any money doing it and the act of bike
> racing itself really can't be considered fun. Is it really fun to wake
> up at 5 a.m. and drive 108 miles only to scrape the skin off your
> shoulder in turn 3 because some jackass took the reactor to 105% of
> power through the turn in the rain?
>
> It just cracks me up to go on a group ride with some a-hole racers (95%
> of you fit this profile) and listen to them take their racing so
> seriously as if winning the Thursday night crit in the corporate park
> will get them the cover of Cycle Sport, a 6-figure contract, and the
> ability to finger Gisele Bunchen.
>
> If you win a race that pays out $350, why are you so happy when you're
> suppose to split that with your 5 teammates and have the knowledge that
> it took you 300 hours of training and maybe another $750 in new
> equipment and maintence to get there not to mention gas, tolls, and
> other miscellenous costs. Even when you throw in your free socks and 10%
> A-Team discount at the race shop, you're still in the red. And if you
> say you do it for the competition and fun, then who are kidding with
> that - all you did is dumb down the competition through age and other
> arbitrary USAC-category metrics and then beat those lepers. So you won
> a leper colony race.
>
> In case you haven't figured it out yet, the reason why most pros dope is
> because they realize the only thing that matters in cycling is winning
> big races and getting lots of money. Otherwise, most pros don't even
> like bike racing or training and most of them would never have become
> amateur racers had they not made it as a pro.
>
> When Bettini comes to race the Tour of California, his main goal is to
> take his wife and kids to Disneyland and load up on some jeans and
> souvenirs and then figure out how he's gonna lie on the customs form so
> he doesn't have to delcare any of it.
>
> If you were to find The Cricket in the food court of a California
> shopping mall and tell him that there was the "District Cat. 3
> Championships" going on right now in the parking lot, he would probably
> act fake-excited out of respect, but he would never leave the Orange
> Julius line he was standing in.
>
> Most amateur racers don't get better because they don't think like a
> pro. If they did, they would just load up on the EPO and testosterone
> and spend their time trying to figure out how to get a 72 hour jump on
> the OOC testers from USADA. Because all you're really doing is racing
> in a big leper colony anyway.
>
> There use to be a time - before Lance came on the scene - back in the
> late 1980's when Jonas Carney and Roberto "I do Bagels" Gaggioli were
> the big men on campus. It was a day when it was a big deal to win
> Somerville and when guys like Wayne Stetina and John Howard were viewed
> as heroes. Today, having a goal of winning Somerville borders on
> embarassment. And when you look back on the career of John Howard, you
> gotta wonder why a guy would waste his time doing that for nothing.
> Local races are now relegated to the equivalent of a leper colony
> sporting event.
>
> And most of the age-classified races you dumbasses aspire to win call
> into question your sanity. Put your rollers away. Stop staring at your
> SRM graphs. And get with the program.
>
> Magilla

Now I'm jonesing for an Orange Julius. Not fair.

Joseph

[Dave]

MagillaGorilla wrote:
> cyclintom@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Dec 5, 8:55 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If you win a lot, you can go around and tell everyone you're the No. 2
>>> ranked Cat 3 in your district and think that actually means something in
>>> life.
>>
>>
>> Joe - this is what happens to people who can't find motivation to have
>> fun doing what they love to do. Remember this every time your kids
>> wakes you up in the middle of the night, every time you're thinking
>> twice about that last hill sprint and when your wife wants you to miss
>> your race so that you can attend a PTA function with her.
>
>
> Dude,
>
> You need to calm down, Taxi Driver. Stop downloading B arry Manilow
> songs for a minute and pay attention.
>
> I'm not telling people NEVER to race or NEVER to ride their bike.
>
> You gotta admit...some people in here treat Cat. 3 and Cat. 2 racing
> like it really matters in life.
>
> If it did, most pros would continue to race amateur classes after they
> retire. But they don't. No pro in the world races amateur classes
> because they can't figure out what the ****ing purpose of doing that
> aimless task would be. You're basically training 80% of what a pro
> does but getting NONE OF THE BENEFITS (i.e. financial).
>
> It's funny to sit here and listen to how precise everyone gets about
> their wattage and their training techniques. But they can't answer the
> most fundmanetal question that their psyche will eventually ask every
> amateur racer whose done it long enough: why does any of that stuff
> matter when you're not making any money doing it and the act of bike
> racing itself really can't be considered fun. Is it really fun to wake
> up at 5 a.m. and drive 108 miles only to scrape the skin off your
> shoulder in turn 3 because some jackass took the reactor to 105% of
> power through the turn in the rain?
>
> It just cracks me up to go on a group ride with some a-hole racers (95%
> of you fit this profile) and listen to them take their racing so
> seriously as if winning the Thursday night crit in the corporate park
> will get them the cover of Cycle Sport, a 6-figure contract, and the
> ability to finger Gisele Bunchen.
>
> If you win a race that pays out $350, why are you so happy when you're
> suppose to split that with your 5 teammates and have the knowledge that
> it took you 300 hours of training and maybe another $750 in new
> equipment and maintence to get there not to mention gas, tolls, and
> other miscellenous costs. Even when you throw in your free socks and 10%
> A-Team discount at the race shop, you're still in the red. And if you
> say you do it for the competition and fun, then who are kidding with
> that - all you did is dumb down the competition through age and other
> arbitrary USAC-category metrics and then beat those lepers. So you won
> a leper colony race.
>
> In case you haven't figured it out yet, the reason why most pros dope is
> because they realize the only thing that matters in cycling is winning
> big races and getting lots of money. Otherwise, most pros don't even
> like bike racing or training and most of them would never have become
> amateur racers had they not made it as a pro.
>
> When Bettini comes to race the Tour of California, his main goal is to
> take his wife and kids to Disneyland and load up on some jeans and
> souvenirs and then figure out how he's gonna lie on the customs form so
> he doesn't have to delcare any of it.
>
> If you were to find The Cricket in the food court of a California
> shopping mall and tell him that there was the "District Cat. 3
> Championships" going on right now in the parking lot, he would probably
> act fake-excited out of respect, but he would never leave the Orange
> Julius line he was standing in.
>
> Most amateur racers don't get better because they don't think like a
> pro. If they did, they would just load up on the EPO and testosterone
> and spend their time trying to figure out how to get a 72 hour jump on
> the OOC testers from USADA. Because all you're really doing is racing
> in a big leper colony anyway.
>
> There use to be a time - before Lance came on the scene - back in the
> late 1980's when Jonas Carney and Roberto "I do Bagels" Gaggioli were
> the big men on campus. It was a day when it was a big deal to win
> Somerville and when guys like Wayne Stetina and John Howard were viewed
> as heroes. Today, having a goal of winning Somerville borders on
> embarassment. And when you look back on the career of John Howard, you
> gotta wonder why a guy would waste his time doing that for nothing.
> Local races are now relegated to the equivalent of a leper colony
> sporting event.
>
> And most of the age-classified races you dumbasses aspire to win call
> into question your sanity. Put your rollers away. Stop staring at your
> SRM graphs. And get with the program.
>
>
> Magilla

So answer me this, monkey breath, if all that you say is true, then why
do you even bother to post to rbr? You seem to be the one treating all
this as meaningful in life and worth arguing about. I always sucked at
racing, but I still had fun. Why, because I was challenging myself,
staying fit, and hanging with my buds. No more, no less. Now if having
fun isn't meaningful in your life I can understand your position. Then
again, I can see how having fun is difficult for a person like yourself.

- dave

[Bob Schwartz]

MagillaGorilla wrote:
> And most of the age-classified races you dumbasses aspire to win call
> into question your sanity. Put your rollers away. Stop staring at your
> SRM graphs. And get with the program.

I got a Chung Chart out of it. And I know the difference
between Geometry and Physics.

Bob Schwartz

[amit.ghosh@gmail.com]

On Dec 6, 4:59 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:


> If it did, most pros would continue to race amateur classes after they
> retire. But they don't. No pro in the world races amateur classes
> because they can't figure out what the ****ing purpose of doing that
> aimless task would be. You're basically training 80% of what a pro
> does but getting NONE OF THE BENEFITS (i.e. financial).
>

dumbass,

more people in cycling need to read what you just wrote.

99% of cyclists are obsessed with their personal development, there is
nothing wrong with that, but if you train 7-10 hrs a week you are
going to have most of the benefits of training 14-20 hrs, it's a case
of diminishing returns and some people should make better use of their
time or money.

it's definitely worthwhile being fit :
(http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/11/27/the-wage-effect-of-
fat/)

but, if you've been racing for 5 yrs the writing is on the wall about
what your potential in the sport is, but still this winter there will
be hundreds 28 yr old cat 2s that can't win a local race training in
tucson hoping to one day ride the tour. your future bike shop
employees and product reps (not that those are bad jobs).

but that said, if you have the means, who cares ? there are bankers
that buy houses down south just as a golf getaway, and that's no self
absorbed than master fatties making training trips to mallorca and
booking wind tunnel time.

i can accept over-zealousness in newbies (people in that first 5 yrs
stage), but everyone else needs to face reality.

[bjw@mambo.ucolick.org]

On Dec 6, 2:59 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:

> I'm not telling people NEVER to race or NEVER to ride their bike.
>
> You gotta admit...some people in here treat Cat. 3 and Cat. 2 racing
> like it really matters in life.
>
> If it did, most pros would continue to race amateur classes after they
> retire. But they don't. No pro in the world races amateur classes
> because they can't figure out what the ****ing purpose of doing that
> aimless task would be. You're basically training 80% of what a pro
> does but getting NONE OF THE BENEFITS (i.e. financial).
>
> It's funny to sit here and listen to how precise everyone gets about
> their wattage and their training techniques. But they can't answer the
> most fundmanetal question that their psyche will eventually ask every
> amateur racer whose done it long enough: why does any of that stuff
> matter when you're not making any money doing it and the act of bike
> racing itself really can't be considered fun. Is it really fun to wake
> up at 5 a.m. and drive 108 miles only to scrape the skin off your
> shoulder in turn 3 because some jackass took the reactor to 105% of
> power through the turn in the rain?
>
> It just cracks me up to go on a group ride with some a-hole racers (95%
> of you fit this profile) and listen to them take their racing so
> seriously as if winning the Thursday night crit in the corporate park
> will get them the cover of Cycle Sport, a 6-figure contract, and the
> ability to finger Gisele Bunchen.

Ape of Destiny,

7 or 8 years ago, many of the readers of this group might
have fit your profile. Now, it's mostly some never-wases
who don't take themselves very seriously (I include myself),
and ***** at each other about how they keep BSing about
politics instead of racing. Basically the old farts who get
dropped early on the weekend ride and bide their time
until they hook each other in the last sprint so they (we)'ll
have something to ***** about at the coffee shop.

So what I'm saying is, you're late.

Ben

P.S. Maybe you should quit playing golf and start
doing the weekend ride in the old farts' group. Golf
seems to be making you cranky.

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article
<878c6f07-50b9-4738-91d1-43a80dc54aec@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
"joseph.santaniello@gmail.com" <joseph.santaniello@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Dec 6, 10:59 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> > cyclin...@gmail.com wrote:

> > If you were to find The Cricket in the food court of a California
> > shopping mall and tell him that there was the "District Cat. 3
> > Championships" going on right now in the parking lot, he would probably
> > act fake-excited out of respect, but he would never leave the Orange
> > Julius line he was standing in.

> > Magilla
>
> Now I'm jonesing for an Orange Julius. Not fair.
>
> Joseph

And you see, Joseph, that is why you are more fatty than master. :P

Whistling past the graveyard,

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

[Tom Kunich]

"Dave" <dave@theuninvitedcritic.com> wrote in message
news:fj9unm02lo5@news5.newsguy.com...
>
> So answer me this, monkey breath, if all that you say is true, then why do
> you even bother to post to rbr? You seem to be the one treating all this
> as meaningful in life and worth arguing about. I always sucked at racing,
> but I still had fun. Why, because I was challenging myself, staying fit,
> and hanging with my buds. No more, no less. Now if having fun isn't
> meaningful in your life I can understand your position. Then again, I can
> see how having fun is difficult for a person like yourself.

You and I are on the same wavelength Dave. I NEVER wanted to win but I
wanted to help my teammates win. And when I managed to pull the pack long
enough to impress myself that was a good day racing.

[MagillaGorilla]

Dave wrote:

> MagillaGorilla wrote:
>
>> cyclintom@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Dec 5, 8:55 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you win a lot, you can go around and tell everyone you're the No. 2
>>>> ranked Cat 3 in your district and think that actually means
>>>> something in
>>>> life.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Joe - this is what happens to people who can't find motivation to have
>>> fun doing what they love to do. Remember this every time your kids
>>> wakes you up in the middle of the night, every time you're thinking
>>> twice about that last hill sprint and when your wife wants you to miss
>>> your race so that you can attend a PTA function with her.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dude,
>>
>> You need to calm down, Taxi Driver. Stop downloading B arry Manilow
>> songs for a minute and pay attention.
>>
>> I'm not telling people NEVER to race or NEVER to ride their bike.
>>
>> You gotta admit...some people in here treat Cat. 3 and Cat. 2 racing
>> like it really matters in life.
>>
>> If it did, most pros would continue to race amateur classes after they
>> retire. But they don't. No pro in the world races amateur classes
>> because they can't figure out what the ****ing purpose of doing that
>> aimless task would be. You're basically training 80% of what a pro
>> does but getting NONE OF THE BENEFITS (i.e. financial).
>>
>> It's funny to sit here and listen to how precise everyone gets about
>> their wattage and their training techniques. But they can't answer
>> the most fundmanetal question that their psyche will eventually ask
>> every amateur racer whose done it long enough: why does any of that
>> stuff matter when you're not making any money doing it and the act of
>> bike racing itself really can't be considered fun. Is it really fun
>> to wake up at 5 a.m. and drive 108 miles only to scrape the skin off
>> your shoulder in turn 3 because some jackass took the reactor to 105%
>> of power through the turn in the rain?
>>
>> It just cracks me up to go on a group ride with some a-hole racers
>> (95% of you fit this profile) and listen to them take their racing so
>> seriously as if winning the Thursday night crit in the corporate park
>> will get them the cover of Cycle Sport, a 6-figure contract, and the
>> ability to finger Gisele Bunchen.
>>
>> If you win a race that pays out $350, why are you so happy when you're
>> suppose to split that with your 5 teammates and have the knowledge
>> that it took you 300 hours of training and maybe another $750 in new
>> equipment and maintence to get there not to mention gas, tolls, and
>> other miscellenous costs. Even when you throw in your free socks and
>> 10% A-Team discount at the race shop, you're still in the red. And
>> if you say you do it for the competition and fun, then who are kidding
>> with that - all you did is dumb down the competition through age and
>> other arbitrary USAC-category metrics and then beat those lepers. So
>> you won a leper colony race.
>>
>> In case you haven't figured it out yet, the reason why most pros dope
>> is because they realize the only thing that matters in cycling is
>> winning big races and getting lots of money. Otherwise, most pros
>> don't even like bike racing or training and most of them would never
>> have become amateur racers had they not made it as a pro.
>>
>> When Bettini comes to race the Tour of California, his main goal is to
>> take his wife and kids to Disneyland and load up on some jeans and
>> souvenirs and then figure out how he's gonna lie on the customs form
>> so he doesn't have to delcare any of it.
>>
>> If you were to find The Cricket in the food court of a California
>> shopping mall and tell him that there was the "District Cat. 3
>> Championships" going on right now in the parking lot, he would
>> probably act fake-excited out of respect, but he would never leave the
>> Orange Julius line he was standing in.
>>
>> Most amateur racers don't get better because they don't think like a
>> pro. If they did, they would just load up on the EPO and testosterone
>> and spend their time trying to figure out how to get a 72 hour jump on
>> the OOC testers from USADA. Because all you're really doing is
>> racing in a big leper colony anyway.
>>
>> There use to be a time - before Lance came on the scene - back in the
>> late 1980's when Jonas Carney and Roberto "I do Bagels" Gaggioli were
>> the big men on campus. It was a day when it was a big deal to win
>> Somerville and when guys like Wayne Stetina and John Howard were
>> viewed as heroes. Today, having a goal of winning Somerville borders
>> on embarassment. And when you look back on the career of John Howard,
>> you gotta wonder why a guy would waste his time doing that for
>> nothing. Local races are now relegated to the equivalent of a leper
>> colony sporting event.
>>
>> And most of the age-classified races you dumbasses aspire to win call
>> into question your sanity. Put your rollers away. Stop staring at
>> your SRM graphs. And get with the program.
>>
>>
>> Magilla
>
>
> So answer me this, monkey breath, if all that you say is true, then why
> do you even bother to post to rbr? You seem to be the one treating all
> this as meaningful in life and worth arguing about. I always sucked at
> racing, but I still had fun. Why, because I was challenging myself,
> staying fit, and hanging with my buds. No more, no less. Now if having
> fun isn't meaningful in your life I can understand your position. Then
> again, I can see how having fun is difficult for a person like yourself.
>
> - dave

Well, you better not be "having fun" when you're racing your bike unless
it's your first or second year. If you're in college, then you are
probably still having fun, but eventually you will meet some rider who
isn't having fun and you will want to be like him because he knows
something you don't, to quote Jackie Simes. You shouldn't be showing up
to a race after your first few years with a smile on your face. It's
actually a USCF rule violation, but I don't feel like citing the exact
rule. Well maybe it's an unwritten rule come to think of it.

The problem is when you escalate the training and traveling and costs to
the point where cycling is no longer an avocation and it becomes a
vocation but you are still not making any money or seeing any return.
Now all you got is a ****ing permanent state of anemia, a $600/month
grovery bill, and a journal full of 350 mile week entries that saps your
time and energy week in and week out.

It's at that point where you should re-evaluate why you show up to 7
a.m. to go around in circles at the corporate park just so you can run
one of the guys from D&Q into the sewer grate because he didn't wait for
you on the B-training ride when you flatted.

Here, let me break down some real-world examples. Let's take Neil
Stansbury, a Cat. 2. Here's a guy who is an orthopedic surgeon but he's
still relatively competitive in races like Somerville and at one point
even road USPRO Philly. But his 'real' incentive in life is taking a
Black & Decker drill to people's femur and taking home $500,000 year.
That's how he saves for his daughters weddings. He's still racing
competively at 45 because he has a purpose beyond riding in circles
until you break your clavicle and Campy Record shifters in 3 places.

Now let's take a guy like Brain Maroney - 1991 winner of Somerville.
After winning "The Derby" he eventually downgrades to a Cat. 3 because
he realizes there is no point to being a Cat. 2 and he would rather
sandbag the 3 field rather than blow his lungs out chasing all those
TOGA dopers from Brooklyn at Chris Thater.

I got no problem with what these guys did or do.

But there's a lot of guys who race without a purpose and don't realize
it for years until it's too late. Well, eventually their psyche
realizes it and it causes subtle depression which manifests in the form
of burnout every June. Every monkey grinder amateur cyclist in here has
been there. Even most pros.

Most amateurs get burned out by June not because of over-training, but
because their mind is telling them they are training and racing for no
compelling reason whatsoever. And they need to put the air brakes on
this insanity train before their ****ing head explodes because they
can't take staring at asphalt for 3 hours a day any longer. You don't
need a 32 heartrate and Mr. Universe veins coming out of your thighs to
take out the trash on Wednesday night. Amateur bike racers are perhaps
the most elite athletes in the world who use their fitness to do
absolutely ****ing nothing more than mow their lawn in 95-degree
humidity without running out of breath or take their dog on 9 hour hikes
at 8,000 feet in elevation.

But rather than quit, I suggest you just find a purpose.

But it better be real and not that you want to get a top 20 in the Cat.
3 Cup simply because last year you were ranked 23. It better be
something worthwhile like you want to win the Cat. 3 series or die while
trying because first place is a used moped and Odessa Gunn's baby sister
often rides a moped down your street when she goes to the Starbucks.

But of course, once she finds out you're just a Cat. 3 she will probably
dump you anyway for an import pro from South America. But at least you
can get to third base with her for a good week or so before one of the
Gasolina drifters from Brooklyn steals her because they got the Antonio
Banderas look going on and a promise from Profaci for a contract on
Colavita B-team for next year. And even though you can climb a hill
within sight of any pro within a 4-state region, the training leaves you
looking like a refugee from Treblinka and one of those barbed wire
tattoos just wouldn't look right on your 4 inch circumference biceps.
But that's the only look that Odessa's baby sister likes, so then you
gotta make a decision - do you go to the gym and hit the free weights so
you can do justice to the tattoo, or do you maintain your Rasmussen
anorexic diet so you can get 9th in Vermont come September?

I can't answer this question for you.

But the real plan should have nothing to do with cycling unless you're
talking about ****ing up the other Pro Tour riders on the way to Morzine
on worldwide TV so you can score a 7-figure contract. The days of John
Howard crushing people for no real reason are gone and not even Roberto
Gaggioli's 2 billion V's were enough to convince his 26 year old wife to
not serve him with divorce papers once he was relegated to driving a
lowrider BMW in the caravan.

You need to have a solid plan, Stan.


Magilla Training Systems
$29/month Winter Coaching Specials

[MagillaGorilla]

Bob Schwartz wrote:

> MagillaGorilla wrote:
>
>> And most of the age-classified races you dumbasses aspire to win call
>> into question your sanity. Put your rollers away. Stop staring at
>> your SRM graphs. And get with the program.
>
>
> I got a Chung Chart out of it. And I know the difference
> between Geometry and Physics.
>
> Bob Schwartz



You have quite the attitude for someone who was gang-raped in prison.

Magilla

[MagillaGorilla]

Tom Kunich wrote:

> "Dave" <dave@theuninvitedcritic.com> wrote in message
> news:fj9unm02lo5@news5.newsguy.com...
>
>>
>> So answer me this, monkey breath, if all that you say is true, then
>> why do you even bother to post to rbr? You seem to be the one
>> treating all this as meaningful in life and worth arguing about. I
>> always sucked at racing, but I still had fun. Why, because I was
>> challenging myself, staying fit, and hanging with my buds. No more,
>> no less. Now if having fun isn't meaningful in your life I can
>> understand your position. Then again, I can see how having fun is
>> difficult for a person like yourself.
>
>
> You and I are on the same wavelength Dave. I NEVER wanted to win but I
> wanted to help my teammates win. And when I managed to pull the pack
> long enough to impress myself that was a good day racing.



And when your teammate who you helped win joins the competitor's team
the following season and 'forgets' to return the Mavic wheel you lent
him, then what did you really accomplish with your little sacrificial
lamb stunt?

Don't try to turn everything into a Disney After-School Special.
Myerson tried to do that and Scott Mercer set him straight with a
skull-punch.


Magilla

[Donald Munro]

MagillaGorilla wrote:
> The problem is when you escalate the training and traveling and costs to
> the point where cycling is no longer an avocation and it becomes a
> vocation but you are still not making any money or seeing any return. Now
> all you got is a ****ing permanent state of anemia, a $600/month grovery
> bill, and a journal full of 350 mile week entries that saps your time and
> energy week in and week out.

If you use a powermeter properly you can replace quantity with
quality and get the same training effect (at least for masters
length races) in (as amit said) 9-10 hours a week rather than
15-18 hours. You could do the same without a powermeter but
its much easier to measure quality effort using a powermeter
than without.

[joseph.santaniello@gmail.com]

On Dec 7, 5:57 am, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> but that said, if you have the means, who cares ? there are bankers
> that buy houses down south just as a golf getaway, and that's no self
> absorbed than master fatties making training trips to mallorca and
> booking wind tunnel time.

That's just the point: it's a hobby. And even if you only spend a few
hours doing it and buy all the expensive gear, you're still doing ok
on a money wasted per time basis. You don't even have to compare it to
extravagant things like extra houses for occasional golf. What about a
crap outboard with sonar for fishing? Some folks waste more dough on
jacuzzis or gas grills on a per hour basis.

Or nuts who collect fire engines and spend their whole lives polishing
chrome. Or what about Civil War reenactment? Guys who collect and
schlep around brass big bore cannons to shoot pumpkins with their
buddies. Radio controlled helicopters? The list goes on and on for
ways folks waste more money in less time than FM's with a Zipp wheeled
Damocles.

Bike racing is a hobby like any other, and hobbies are for the purpose
of wasting time. It satisfies the requirement, what more do you need?

Joseph

[Scott]

On Dec 6, 9:57 pm, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Dec 6, 4:59 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
> > If it did, most pros would continue to race amateur classes after they
> > retire. But they don't. No pro in the world races amateur classes
> > because they can't figure out what the ****ing purpose of doing that
> > aimless task would be. You're basically training 80% of what a pro
> > does but getting NONE OF THE BENEFITS (i.e. financial).
>
> dumbass,
>
> more people in cycling need to read what you just wrote.
>
> 99% of cyclists are obsessed with their personal development, there is
> nothing wrong with that, but if you train 7-10 hrs a week you are
> going to have most of the benefits of training 14-20 hrs, it's a case
> of diminishing returns and some people should make better use of their
> time or money.

YOU don't get to decide at what point someone's returns diminish or
what is a better use of THEIR time or money. You can apply your sense
of values as to how it would affect YOU if YOU were to do what they're
doing, but YOU can't decide for THEM.

> but, if you've been racing for 5 yrs the writing is on the wall about
> what your potential in the sport is, but still this winter there will
> be hundreds 28 yr old cat 2s that can't win a local race training in
> tucson hoping to one day ride the tour. your future bike shop
> employees and product reps (not that those are bad jobs).
>

Yep, there are plenty of delusional folks out there who never give up
the dream, but that doesn't make it appropriate to assume that
everyone is delusional if they don't either make it to the Tour or
quit at year 5.

>
> i can accept over-zealousness in newbies (people in that first 5 yrs
> stage), but everyone else needs to face reality.

Without knowing exactly what motivates each individual, how can you
possibly know if they need a reality check?

[Tom Kunich]

"MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
news:fjakha$ds8$1@aioe.org...
>
> And when your teammate who you helped win joins the competitor's team the
> following season and 'forgets' to return the Mavic wheel you lent him,
> then what did you really accomplish with your little sacrificial lamb
> stunt?

Well, firstly I would never be a teammate with you so I wouldn't have to
worry about someone returning wheels they borrowed. Secondly, my "sacrifice"
is for the minute and not for the rest of my life. I couldn't care less
whether a teammate recognized my efforts or not. In fact most of them didn't
even understand what was going on - they actually thought that they were
faster than me and were passing me in the last 100 yards because they were
stronger. So what?

> Don't try to turn everything into a Disney After-School Special. Myerson
> tried to do that and Scott Mercer set him straight with a skull-punch.

Adam is a man, something that you'd have to go a long way to understand.
Mercer is - what again?

[Ted van de Weteringe]

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html
>
> "Real Programmers can write five page long DO loops without getting
> confused."

Here's another astronomer's view on Real Programming:
http://www.cs.utah.edu/~elb/folklore/mel.html

[MagillaGorilla]

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:

> On Dec 6, 2:59 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I'm not telling people NEVER to race or NEVER to ride their bike.
>>
>>You gotta admit...some people in here treat Cat. 3 and Cat. 2 racing
>>like it really matters in life.
>>
>>If it did, most pros would continue to race amateur classes after they
>>retire. But they don't. No pro in the world races amateur classes
>>because they can't figure out what the ****ing purpose of doing that
>>aimless task would be. You're basically training 80% of what a pro
>>does but getting NONE OF THE BENEFITS (i.e. financial).
>>
>>It's funny to sit here and listen to how precise everyone gets about
>>their wattage and their training techniques. But they can't answer the
>>most fundmanetal question that their psyche will eventually ask every
>>amateur racer whose done it long enough: why does any of that stuff
>>matter when you're not making any money doing it and the act of bike
>>racing itself really can't be considered fun. Is it really fun to wake
>>up at 5 a.m. and drive 108 miles only to scrape the skin off your
>>shoulder in turn 3 because some jackass took the reactor to 105% of
>>power through the turn in the rain?
>>
>>It just cracks me up to go on a group ride with some a-hole racers (95%
>>of you fit this profile) and listen to them take their racing so
>>seriously as if winning the Thursday night crit in the corporate park
>>will get them the cover of Cycle Sport, a 6-figure contract, and the
>>ability to finger Gisele Bunchen.
>
>
> Ape of Destiny,
>
> 7 or 8 years ago, many of the readers of this group might
> have fit your profile. Now, it's mostly some never-wases
> who don't take themselves very seriously (I include myself),
> and ***** at each other about how they keep BSing about
> politics instead of racing. Basically the old farts who get
> dropped early on the weekend ride and bide their time
> until they hook each other in the last sprint so they (we)'ll
> have something to ***** about at the coffee shop.
>
> So what I'm saying is, you're late.
>
> Ben
>
> P.S. Maybe you should quit playing golf and start
> doing the weekend ride in the old farts' group. Golf
> seems to be making you cranky.


If you don't take yourselves so seriously then explain all the stains on
the Allen Lim Power Tap manuals that show up under ultraviolet light?

TAKE THE GODDAMN RED LUNCHBOX OFF YOUR HANDLEBARS and then we'll talk.


Magilla

[Donald Munro]

Ted van de Weteringe wrote:
> Here's another astronomer's view on Real Programming:
> http://www.cs.utah.edu/~elb/folklore/mel.html

Damn and I thought my 6502/6510 code, complete with paging
code in and out of ROM space, on my old Commodore 64 back
in the eighties was hand optimized.

[MagillaGorilla]

Donald Munro wrote:
> MagillaGorilla wrote:
>
>>The problem is when you escalate the training and traveling and costs to
>>the point where cycling is no longer an avocation and it becomes a
>>vocation but you are still not making any money or seeing any return. Now
>>all you got is a ****ing permanent state of anemia, a $600/month grovery
>>bill, and a journal full of 350 mile week entries that saps your time and
>>energy week in and week out.
>
>
> If you use a powermeter properly you can replace quantity with
> quality and get the same training effect (at least for masters
> length races) in (as amit said) 9-10 hours a week rather than
> 15-18 hours. You could do the same without a powermeter but
> its much easier to measure quality effort using a powermeter
> than without.
>


Okay Donny & Marie,

Put your fleshlight and jar of Vaseline down for a minute and listen up.

When you crash on your group ride because some Cat. 3 touched his
celeste colored Michelin with the yellow Hutchisons of the squirrelly
Cat. 5 ahead of him wearing the Bobby Jew-lick cameltoeback, and you go
down in the ensuing pile-up and notice you cracked the PLASTIC case on
your $3,000 SRM, for how long do you cry when you roll up your driveway?

Listen to me, Donny. You don't need to know power anything. I tell you
what you need to know and, more importantly, what you don't need to
know. And what you need to know is HOW a pro measures power: when you
jack your hematocrit up to a Riis-like 65% so your blood is as thick as
tree sap on a cold day...when you push down on the pedals and
effortlessly glide 50 meters off the front and sit in a 20 mph headwind
by yourself while sipping your water bottle like it was a glass of wine
and notice your heartrate doesn't go above 108 while everyone else
behind you is echeloned out wondering what ****ing Chris Carmichael
video you watched to do that, that's what POWER is.

POWER was when Ali punched Joe Frazier in his ****ing jaw in Madison
Square Garden back in '71.

POWER is what you get when you fill the trash bin behind the Super 8 off
the Palisades Expressway with used syringes and empty blood bags the
night before the state championships at Bear Mountain while the other
uptight riders from all the CRCA acronym teams diligently warm up on
their rollers with energy gels sticking out of their shorts and wonder
why you're sitting on your tailgate and joking with the blonde soigneur
from Navigators.

Living in a $15,000 Little Boy Plastic Bubble Hypoxia tent while ****ing
your girlfriend at the equivalent altitude of base camp on Everest and
staring at graphs from your SRM that is the size of a NORAD Atlantic
sector display strapped to your handlebars and makes your rig look like
some kind of storm chaser vehicle....you better watch your step with me.

90% of the Pro Tour riders don't even put batteries in their SRM's
unless Ferrari tells them he needs to know if he got their dosage right.
And even then, most pros think the SRM needs to be on their bike in
order for the shifters to work properly.


Magilla

[Donald Munro]

joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:
> FM's with a Zipp wheeled Damocles.

Have you told the wife about your xmas present yet ?

[amit.ghosh@gmail.com]

On Dec 7, 5:42 am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"

> That's just the point: it's a hobby. And even if you only spend a few
> hours doing it and buy all the expensive gear, you're still doing ok
> on a money wasted per time basis. You don't even have to compare it to
> extravagant things like extra houses for occasional golf. What about a
> crap outboard with sonar for fishing? Some folks waste more dough on
> jacuzzis or gas grills on a per hour basis.

dumbass,

i agree, adults waste time and money on stupider things than cycling,
like stereo systems and video games.

i didn't respond to your original post because i perceived from the
tone of your postings that you were in that 5yr stage (i could be
wrong) and i didn't want to be a **** and quash your enthusiasm.

[joseph.santaniello@gmail.com]

On Dec 7, 3:28 pm, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> joseph.santanie...@gmail.com wrote:
> > FM's with a Zipp wheeled Damocles.
>
> Have you told the wife about your xmas present yet ?

You mean the Dogma? Nope. And I was wise enought to get the guy to
split up the charges over multiple days so as to camouflage the real
cost.

Joseph

[amit.ghosh@gmail.com]

On Dec 7, 11:31 am, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Without knowing exactly what motivates each individual, how can you
> possibly know if they need a reality check?

dumbass,

i can perceive it in what they say and how they act.

i'm involved in local racing and it annoys me to drive around a race
course picking up gu wrappers tossed on the road by museeuw wannabes
who are 20 yrs older than me or riders telling me I shouldn't charge
the top riders an entry fee because that's what they do in belgium.

i can cite many instances where someone acts like a **** or has a
sense of entitlement because they are "a rider".

[MagillaGorilla]

Scott wrote:

> On Dec 6, 9:57 pm, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Dec 6, 4:59 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>If it did, most pros would continue to race amateur classes after they
>>>retire. But they don't. No pro in the world races amateur classes
>>>because they can't figure out what the ****ing purpose of doing that
>>>aimless task would be. You're basically training 80% of what a pro
>>>does but getting NONE OF THE BENEFITS (i.e. financial).
>>
>>dumbass,
>>
>>more people in cycling need to read what you just wrote.
>>
>>99% of cyclists are obsessed with their personal development, there is
>>nothing wrong with that, but if you train 7-10 hrs a week you are
>>going to have most of the benefits of training 14-20 hrs, it's a case
>>of diminishing returns and some people should make better use of their
>>time or money.
>
>
> YOU don't get to decide at what point someone's returns diminish or
> what is a better use of THEIR time or money. You can apply your sense
> of values as to how it would affect YOU if YOU were to do what they're
> doing, but YOU can't decide for THEM.
>


I make decisions for a lot of people in here all the time, and it is the
correct decision for THEM.

Magilla

[Scott]

On Dec 7, 11:15 am, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Dec 7, 11:31 am, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Without knowing exactly what motivates each individual, how can you
> > possibly know if they need a reality check?
>
> dumbass,
>
> i can perceive it in what they say and how they act.
>
> i'm involved in local racing and it annoys me to drive around a race
> course picking up gu wrappers tossed on the road by museeuw wannabes
> who are 20 yrs older than me or riders telling me I shouldn't charge
> the top riders an entry fee because that's what they do in belgium.
>
> i can cite many instances where someone acts like a **** or has a
> sense of entitlement because they are "a rider".

Hey, I can't argue with your comments above, but that still doesn't
entitle you to state that everyone needs a reality check. Lot's do,
most don't (my opinion).

[Tom Kunich]

<amit.ghosh@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5639f965-d142-4a33-bad2-ec52897dc590@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 7, 11:31 am, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Without knowing exactly what motivates each individual, how can you
>> possibly know if they need a reality check?
>
> dumbass,
>
> i can perceive it in what they say and how they act.
>
> i'm involved in local racing and it annoys me to drive around a race
> course picking up gu wrappers tossed on the road by museeuw wannabes
> who are 20 yrs older than me or riders telling me I shouldn't charge
> the top riders an entry fee because that's what they do in belgium.
>
> i can cite many instances where someone acts like a **** or has a
> sense of entitlement because they are "a rider".

I've had exactly the same experience. Seems like most riders below Cat 2
think that they ought to be treated like professionals even though they act
like ignorant teenagers.

By contrast, 80% or better of junior racers act better than most adult
racers.

[joseph.santaniello@gmail.com]

On Dec 7, 7:23 pm, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Dec 7, 5:42 am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
>
> > That's just the point: it's a hobby. And even if you only spend a few
> > hours doing it and buy all the expensive gear, you're still doing ok
> > on a money wasted per time basis. You don't even have to compare it to
> > extravagant things like extra houses for occasional golf. What about a
> > crap outboard with sonar for fishing? Some folks waste more dough on
> > jacuzzis or gas grills on a per hour basis.
>
> dumbass,
>
> i agree, adults waste time and money on stupider things than cycling,
> like stereo systems and video games.
>
> i didn't respond to your original post because i perceived from the
> tone of your postings that you were in that 5yr stage (i could be
> wrong) and i didn't want to be a **** and quash your enthusiasm.

I'm in year 3 of my second go around after a 15 year lay off. Typical.
The part I regret was not going for it when I was younger and actually
maybe could have got somewhere. I'm not saying I would have made it,
just that now it is completely ruled out due to my age, and then it
was at least in theory possible. My enthusiasm is probably in part
because I'm still on the way up. I get faster all the time. When that
stops it may be different.

I may reach the point you guys are talking about someday, but I think
I'll just switch my event types which will keep it interesting. Or
maybe I'll buy a recumbent...

Joseph

[Bill C]

On Dec 7, 1:54 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 7, 11:15 am, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 7, 11:31 am, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Without knowing exactly what motivates each individual, how can you
> > > possibly know if they need a reality check?
>
> > dumbass,
>
> > i can perceive it in what they say and how they act.
>
> > i'm involved in local racing and it annoys me to drive around a race
> > course picking up gu wrappers tossed on the road by museeuw wannabes
> > who are 20 yrs older than me or riders telling me I shouldn't charge
> > the top riders an entry fee because that's what they do in belgium.
>
> > i can cite many instances where someone acts like a **** or has a
> > sense of entitlement because they are "a rider".
>
> Hey, I can't argue with your comments above, but that still doesn't
> entitle you to state that everyone needs a reality check. Lot's do,
> most don't (my opinion).- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

So Amit should go to every race, watch every rider, keep a log of just
which riders need to be corrected, and carefully, non-judgementally,
and of course, politcally correctly, non-negatively, suggest positive
alternatives to those particular riders, right??
You'd be happy to volunteer the massive number of hours to, possibly,
avoid offending anyone, right?
I'm with Amit. Make it clear to everyone, you throw **** outside the
feed zone you get DQ'ed, or relegated.
You'd rather have the promoter pay clean-up crews, or lose the race
than hold the riders responsible.
Hey, NOONE is respoinsible for their actions, right. it's all
society, or someone else's fault?
Bill C

[MagillaGorilla]

Scott wrote:

> On Dec 7, 11:15 am, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Dec 7, 11:31 am, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Without knowing exactly what motivates each individual, how can you
>>>possibly know if they need a reality check?
>>
>>dumbass,
>>
>>i can perceive it in what they say and how they act.
>>
>>i'm involved in local racing and it annoys me to drive around a race
>>course picking up gu wrappers tossed on the road by museeuw wannabes
>>who are 20 yrs older than me or riders telling me I shouldn't charge
>>the top riders an entry fee because that's what they do in belgium.
>>
>>i can cite many instances where someone acts like a **** or has a
>>sense of entitlement because they are "a rider".
>
>
> Hey, I can't argue with your comments above, but that still doesn't
> entitle you to state that everyone needs a reality check. Lot's do,
> most don't (my opinion).


All riders need a reality check unless they're standing on the center
podium on the Chhamps E'lysees with a stuffed Credit Lyonnais and a
podium model tonge-darting your ear on the last Sunday in July.
Anything other than that and you're Andy Hampsten exiled to Italy for
life tryin' to explain to the world why you never won the Tour.
Hampsten flies direct from Rome to Denver because he's afraid if his
plane stopped at Charles DeGaulle, nobody would recognize him when he
walked down the concourse.

As for all you other smart alecks with your SRMs and email 'coaches' who
convinced you to send them car payments every month so you can win a
spare Festina watchband in the local yellow line rule race by you, you
better wake up and smell the coffee.

Cause WADA removed the caffeine ban a long time ago.

Magilla

[MagillaGorilla]

Tom Kunich wrote:

> "MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fjakha$ds8$1@aioe.org...
>
>>
>> And when your teammate who you helped win joins the competitor's team
>> the following season and 'forgets' to return the Mavic wheel you lent
>> him, then what did you really accomplish with your little sacrificial
>> lamb stunt?
>
>
> Well, firstly I would never be a teammate with you so I wouldn't have to
> worry about someone returning wheels they borrowed. Secondly, my
> "sacrifice" is for the minute and not for the rest of my life. I
> couldn't care less whether a teammate recognized my efforts or not. In
> fact most of them didn't even understand what was going on - they
> actually thought that they were faster than me and were passing me in
> the last 100 yards because they were stronger. So what?
>
>> Don't try to turn everything into a Disney After-School Special.
>> Myerson tried to do that and Scott Mercer set him straight with a
>> skull-punch.
>
>
> Adam is a man, something that you'd have to go a long way to understand.
> Mercer is - what again?


Myerson's wife divorced him after he got skull punched by Mercer.
Evidently, she doesn't measure a man by the amount of tattoo ink he has
stamped on his body.

Magilla

[amit.ghosh@gmail.com]

On Dec 7, 7:25 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Dec 7, 1:54 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 7, 11:15 am, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 7, 11:31 am, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Without knowing exactly what motivates each individual, how can you
> > > > possibly know if they need a reality check?
>
> > > dumbass,
>
> > > i can perceive it in what they say and how they act.
>
> > > i'm involved in local racing and it annoys me to drive around a race
> > > course picking up gu wrappers tossed on the road by museeuw wannabes
> > > who are 20 yrs older than me or riders telling me I shouldn't charge
> > > the top riders an entry fee because that's what they do in belgium.
>
> > > i can cite many instances where someone acts like a **** or has a
> > > sense of entitlement because they are "a rider".
>
> > Hey, I can't argue with your comments above, but that still doesn't
> > entitle you to state that everyone needs a reality check. Lot's do,
> > most don't (my opinion).- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> So Amit should go to every race, watch every rider, keep a log of just
> which riders need to be corrected, and carefully, non-judgementally,
> and of course, politcally correctly, non-negatively, suggest positive
> alternatives to those particular riders, right??

dumbass,

i will give you an example of what i am talking about:

at a local 40k TT championship a rider (who is actually a really
likable guy) was misdirected when a car had stopped on the course and
the marshall's signal was misinterpreted in the confusion.

he lost *maybe* 20 secs. and he came up to me afterwards fuming, angry
as hell, saying he wanted to know who to hold responsible because he
was going to punch that person in the face. he had been training all
season for this TT and yadda yadda someone's ****up had cost his
dearly.

i checked his time and the time lost wasn't enough to affect his
placing and he wasn't anywhere near the podium, and this is besides
the fact that the rulebook says the onus is on the rider to know the
course and the course had been published weeks in advance -- so anyone
serious should know it.

i was actually worried that there would be an incident.

i can understand being fired up during competition and he did calm
down but this is a clear example where a person had too much vested in
something that had nothing to do with their career, or family or
anything like that, and it was making things unpleasant for others.

i like fierce competion, but the fact is amateur racing is
entertainment for the participants. if your amateur racing becomes
like a non-paying job, you have lost perspective.

[MagillaGorilla]

Tom Kunich wrote:

> <amit.ghosh@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5639f965-d142-4a33-bad2-ec52897dc590@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>> On Dec 7, 11:31 am, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Without knowing exactly what motivates each individual, how can you
>>> possibly know if they need a reality check?
>>
>>
>> dumbass,
>>
>> i can perceive it in what they say and how they act.
>>
>> i'm involved in local racing and it annoys me to drive around a race
>> course picking up gu wrappers tossed on the road by museeuw wannabes
>> who are 20 yrs older than me or riders telling me I shouldn't charge
>> the top riders an entry fee because that's what they do in belgium.
>>
>> i can cite many instances where someone acts like a **** or has a
>> sense of entitlement because they are "a rider".
>
>
> I've had exactly the same experience. Seems like most riders below Cat 2
> think that they ought to be treated like professionals even though they
> act like ignorant teenagers.
>
> By contrast, 80% or better of junior racers act better than most adult
> racers.
>

What you misconstrue as polite, compliant juniors is really a weak,
predatory bait attitude that predisposes them to having their adult SRM
coaches on the national team inject them in their tight hineys with some
'extract of cortisone' so they can use their results to get a raise from
Tom Wiesel.

Keep up your little Broadway act, Tom, and I'm gonna send Scott Mercer a
one-way ticket to the closest commuter airport near your house with a
pair of Terminator sunglasses and a phone book with your name circled.


Magilla

[Bill C]

On Dec 7, 8:13 pm, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Dec 7, 7:25 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 7, 1:54 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 7, 11:15 am, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 7, 11:31 am, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Without knowing exactly what motivates each individual, how can you
> > > > > possibly know if they need a reality check?
>
> > > > dumbass,
>
> > > > i can perceive it in what they say and how they act.
>
> > > > i'm involved in local racing and it annoys me to drive around a race
> > > > course picking up gu wrappers tossed on the road by museeuw wannabes
> > > > who are 20 yrs older than me or riders telling me I shouldn't charge
> > > > the top riders an entry fee because that's what they do in belgium.
>
> > > > i can cite many instances where someone acts like a **** or has a
> > > > sense of entitlement because they are "a rider".
>
> > > Hey, I can't argue with your comments above, but that still doesn't
> > > entitle you to state that everyone needs a reality check. Lot's do,
> > > most don't (my opinion).- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > So Amit should go to every race, watch every rider, keep a log of just
> > which riders need to be corrected, and carefully, non-judgementally,
> > and of course, politcally correctly, non-negatively, suggest positive
> > alternatives to those particular riders, right??
>
> dumbass,
>
> i will give you an example of what i am talking about:
>
> at a local 40k TT championship a rider (who is actually a really
> likable guy) was misdirected when a car had stopped on the course and
> the marshall's signal was misinterpreted in the confusion.
>
> he lost *maybe* 20 secs. and he came up to me afterwards fuming, angry
> as hell, saying he wanted to know who to hold responsible because he
> was going to punch that person in the face. he had been training all
> season for this TT and yadda yadda someone's ****up had cost his
> dearly.
>
> i checked his time and the time lost wasn't enough to affect his
> placing and he wasn't anywhere near the podium, and this is besides
> the fact that the rulebook says the onus is on the rider to know the
> course and the course had been published weeks in advance -- so anyone
> serious should know it.
>
> i was actually worried that there would be an incident.
>
> i can understand being fired up during competition and he did calm
> down but this is a clear example where a person had too much vested in
> something that had nothing to do with their career, or family or
> anything like that, and it was making things unpleasant for others.
>
> i like fierce competion, but the fact is amateur racing is
> entertainment for the participants. if your amateur racing becomes
> like a non-paying job, you have lost perspective.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Agreed. If I had a dollar for every minute I've watched Masters argue
about being 35th or 37th, or such nonsense I'd be retired, and so
would just about every other official I know.
Just as a bit of news, especially when we have skeleton crews, which
isn't unusual, we care about the "Money", or "Race" first, not a pack
of stragglers 12 minutes back, except that they get in safely.
Bill C

[Donald Munro]

MagillaGorilla wrote:
> 90% of the Pro Tour riders don't even put batteries in their SRM's unless
> Ferrari tells them he needs to know if he got their dosage right. And even
> then, most pros think the SRM needs to be on their bike in order for the
> shifters to work properly.

Haven't you read Coyle's book where Ferrari has Armstrong and
co doing hill repeats to check if they've got to the magical
watts/kg value ?

[Tom Kunich]

"MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
news:fjfalp$vma$1@aioe.org...
>
> Keep up your little Broadway act, Tom, and I'm gonna send Scott Mercer a
> one-way ticket to the closest commuter airport near your house with a pair
> of Terminator sunglasses and a phone book with your name circled.

Lord knows that you're shaking in your boots at the very idea that you might
get identified.

[bjw@mambo.ucolick.org]

On Dec 8, 4:56 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> b...@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:

> > P.S. Maybe you should quit playing golf and start
> > doing the weekend ride in the old farts' group. Golf
> > seems to be making you cranky.
>
> If you don't take yourselves so seriously then explain all the stains on
> the Allen Lim Power Tap manuals that show up under ultraviolet light?

They shouldn't have printed it on latex. I got
confused. It's easier to get confused when you're
old, ya know.

> TAKE THE GODDAMN RED LUNCHBOX OFF YOUR HANDLEBARS and then we'll talk.

Unfortunately, I am way too cheap to own a
Powertap. I don't even own a red lunchbox, although
it would be kind of cool if someone would make a
lunchbox insert for the messenger bag I use for
commuting now.

I'll blither on rbr about power because I'm a
physicist, but my training regimen is so lame now
that a power reading would be embarrassing. Also,
I'm just kind of lazy about it - I haven't worn my
HRM in a year and the battery died, and I don't
even have a bike computer wired up at the moment.

So maybe you should ignore training advice from me -
I can't even give you the name of a good pharmacist.

Ben

[MagillaGorilla]

Tom Kunich wrote:

> "MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fjfalp$vma$1@aioe.org...
>
>>
>> Keep up your little Broadway act, Tom, and I'm gonna send Scott Mercer
>> a one-way ticket to the closest commuter airport near your house with
>> a pair of Terminator sunglasses and a phone book with your name circled.
>
>
> Lord knows that you're shaking in your boots at the very idea that you
> might get identified.
>


The Lord doesn't exist. I suggest your read The Voyage of the Beagle by
Charles Darwin. It's a book about how God isn't responsible for JACK on
this planet.

Mercer is checking his bags at LaGuardia right now. He's taking the
phone book as a carry-on.

If I were you, I'd get on my moped and go immediately to Tech-Noir over
on Sunset.


Magilla

[MagillaGorilla]

Donald Munro wrote:

> MagillaGorilla wrote:
>
>>90% of the Pro Tour riders don't even put batteries in their SRM's unless
>>Ferrari tells them he needs to know if he got their dosage right. And even
>>then, most pros think the SRM needs to be on their bike in order for the
>>shifters to work properly.
>
>
> Haven't you read Coyle's book where Ferrari has Armstrong and
> co doing hill repeats to check if they've got to the magical
> watts/kg value ?
>
>


If Coyle wrote a book and failed to mention the McIlvain phone call or
how a guy with an 82 VO2 max can generate 500 watts or why the LNDD
found EPO in LA's '99 Tour samples, then I think Coyle needs a reality
check if he wants future editions of his books to be stocked in the
non-fiction section of Barnes & Noble.

Coyle might also want to consider using the package insert for EPO as
the preface for his next book.

Why don't you go buy another Chris Carmichael video from USAC and leave
the real discourse to us pros.


Magilla

[Donald Munro]

MagillaGorilla wrote:
> Why don't you go buy another Chris Carmichael video from USAC and leave
> the real discourse to us pros.

Bukake pros ?

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <475c6421$0$4633$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com>,
Donald Munro <fat-dumbass@hotmail.com> wrote:

> MagillaGorilla wrote:
> > Why don't you go buy another Chris Carmichael video from USAC and leave
> > the real discourse to us pros.
>
> Bukake pros ?

You think he's qualified for that job?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=szSmlZGxPUo

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing