Landis' appeal loses credibility

[MagillaGorilla]

http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13767.0.html

Maruice Suh representing Vino just gives less credibility to Landis'
appeal. What a bad PR move. I wonder when Landis (and his donors)
will realize his defense wasn't worth even a fraction of $1.5 million.

As for Vino, it shows the UCI is corrupt because they should have known
that national federations will give lenient sentences to its own riders
- especially a national like Kazakstan who has its own national/Pro Tour
team. I'm not sure how allowing national federations to adjudicate
doping cases complies with any of the WADA Protocol that cycling was
forced to comply with under the threat of losing its Olympic sanction
back in 2000.

When you are found guilty, you get 2 years, not 1 year. Thgerefore,
Vino's sentence is an explicit violation of the WADA code.

Can you imagine if a Jim Ochowitz controlled board would have heard the
Landis doping case? Landis would have gotten nothing and Jim Ochowitz
would have cashed in on millions with his new iShares Pro Tour team. He
would have ridden the Floyd gravy train all the way to the Wiesel
investment bank.

Unless the UCI appeals this to CAS, the fight against doping in cycling
is just as corrupt as ever.


Magilla

[chiefhiawatha@gmail.com]

On Dec 6, 12:22 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13767.0.html
>
> Maruice Suh representing Vino just gives less credibility to Landis'
> appeal. What a bad PR move. I wonder when Landis (and his donors)
> will realize his defense wasn't worth even a fraction of $1.5 million.

This sure doesn't help Landis, but I'm sure Suh did not agree to stop
taking other clients. That is Suh's area of expertise, making sure
people accused of doping offenses have good representation. Lawyers
often represent people that everyone "knows" is guilty.

I'm not disagreeing that this looks bad for Floyd, but it will not
look bad to people in charge of Floyd's future, it will only look bad
to the man on the street.

[ilanpsi@gmail.com]

On Dec 6, 7:22 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13767.0.html
>
> Maruice Suh representing Vino just gives less credibility to Landis'
> appeal. What a bad PR move. I wonder when Landis (and his donors)
> will realize his defense wasn't worth even a fraction of $1.5 million.
>
> As for Vino, it shows the UCI is corrupt because they should have known
> that national federations will give lenient sentences to its own riders
> - especially a national like Kazakstan who has its own national/Pro Tour
> team. I'm not sure how allowing national federations to adjudicate
> doping cases complies with any of the WADA Protocol that cycling was
> forced to comply with under the threat of losing its Olympic sanction
> back in 2000.
>
> When you are found guilty, you get 2 years, not 1 year. Thgerefore,
> Vino's sentence is an explicit violation of the WADA code.
>
> Can you imagine if a Jim Ochowitz controlled board would have heard the
> Landis doping case? Landis would have gotten nothing and Jim Ochowitz
> would have cashed in on millions with his new iShares Pro Tour team. He
> would have ridden the Floyd gravy train all the way to the Wiesel
> investment bank.
>
> Unless the UCI appeals this to CAS, the fight against doping in cycling
> is just as corrupt as ever.
>
> Magilla

Thanks for the article, I learned that AFP and VeloNews haven't heard
that the plan is to ban all athletes with a doping conviction from
future Olympics.

-ilan

[MagillaGorilla]

chiefhiawatha@gmail.com wrote:

> On Dec 6, 12:22 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>>http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13767.0.html
>>
>>Maruice Suh representing Vino just gives less credibility to Landis'
>>appeal. What a bad PR move. I wonder when Landis (and his donors)
>>will realize his defense wasn't worth even a fraction of $1.5 million.
>
>
> This sure doesn't help Landis, but I'm sure Suh did not agree to stop
> taking other clients. That is Suh's area of expertise, making sure
> people accused of doping offenses have good representation. Lawyers
> often represent people that everyone "knows" is guilty.
>
> I'm not disagreeing that this looks bad for Floyd, but it will not
> look bad to people in charge of Floyd's future, it will only look bad
> to the man on the street.


--

The people who decide these cases and follow the sport know that Vino is
guilty as hell. HIm and his punk-boy Kashechkin. And when Suh cries
wolf for a guy who everyone knows is a dirty player, it serves to
detract from his credibility in the Landis case because it shows a
willingness by Suh to put forth disingenuous arguments that he tries to
pass off as credible.

Suh should have kept his nose out of defending known dopers until
Landis's appeal was resolved. As it stands now, he comes across as a
money-hungry attorney who has no sense of righteousness. Landis doesn't
need that kind of attorney representing him.

Landis is gonna lose his appeal bad and in the end he's gonna realize
that all Suh did was steal his daughter's college savings.

I don't know if you guys remember what Landis did during the Morzine
stage, but to go from that worldwide high and winning the Tour, to being
villified and laughed at on YouTube and the butt of jokes on the late
night talk shows, and being fianciually gutted (mostly by your
lawyers)...Landis is well on his way to locking himself in his garage
one day with the engine running.

This ain't gonna end pretty, trust me. Landis has less options in life
right now than Dana Plato.


Magilla

[mtb Dad]

On Dec 6, 2:17 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> chiefhiawa...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Dec 6, 12:22 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13767.0.html
>
> >>Maruice Suh representing Vino just gives less credibility to Landis'
> >>appeal. What a bad PR move. I wonder when Landis (and his donors)
> >>will realize his defense wasn't worth even a fraction of $1.5 million.
>
> > This sure doesn't help Landis, but I'm sure Suh did not agree to stop
> > taking other clients. That is Suh's area of expertise, making sure
> > people accused of doping offenses have good representation. Lawyers
> > often represent people that everyone "knows" is guilty.
>
> > I'm not disagreeing that this looks bad for Floyd, but it will not
> > look bad to people in charge of Floyd's future, it will only look bad
> > to the man on the street.
>
> --
>
> The people who decide these cases and follow the sport know that Vino is
> guilty as hell. HIm and his punk-boy Kashechkin. And when Suh cries
> wolf for a guy who everyone knows is a dirty player, it serves to
> detract from his credibility in the Landis case because it shows a
> willingness by Suh to put forth disingenuous arguments that he tries to
> pass off as credible.
>
> Suh should have kept his nose out of defending known dopers until
> Landis's appeal was resolved. As it stands now, he comes across as a
> money-hungry attorney who has no sense of righteousness. Landis doesn't
> need that kind of attorney representing him.
>
> Landis is gonna lose his appeal bad and in the end he's gonna realize
> that all Suh did was steal his daughter's college savings.
>
> I don't know if you guys remember what Landis did during the Morzine
> stage, but to go from that worldwide high and winning the Tour, to being
> villified and laughed at on YouTube and the butt of jokes on the late
> night talk shows, and being fianciually gutted (mostly by your
> lawyers)...Landis is well on his way to locking himself in his garage
> one day with the engine running.
>
> This ain't gonna end pretty, trust me. Landis has less options in life
> right now than Dana Plato.
>
> Magilla- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Magilla I like your posts and thinking generally, but why suggest
suicide? Jeez, it's just bike racing and people have come back from
worse career disasters to find something else to do. Suicide just
seems a little too ghoulish, especially when the guy is probably
reminded everyday right now of his mistakes and may even be
susceptible. Instead, how about a David Miller option? I'd book him
for my kids school if he wanted to hit the road to talk about ethics,
crossing the line, and consequences. Drunks that kill people do that
all the time.

[MagillaGorilla]

mtb Dad wrote:

> On Dec 6, 2:17 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>>chiefhiawa...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Dec 6, 12:22 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13767.0.html
>>
>>>>Maruice Suh representing Vino just gives less credibility to Landis'
>>>>appeal. What a bad PR move. I wonder when Landis (and his donors)
>>>>will realize his defense wasn't worth even a fraction of $1.5 million.
>>
>>>This sure doesn't help Landis, but I'm sure Suh did not agree to stop
>>>taking other clients. That is Suh's area of expertise, making sure
>>>people accused of doping offenses have good representation. Lawyers
>>>often represent people that everyone "knows" is guilty.
>>
>>>I'm not disagreeing that this looks bad for Floyd, but it will not
>>>look bad to people in charge of Floyd's future, it will only look bad
>>>to the man on the street.
>>
>>--
>>
>>The people who decide these cases and follow the sport know that Vino is
>>guilty as hell. HIm and his punk-boy Kashechkin. And when Suh cries
>>wolf for a guy who everyone knows is a dirty player, it serves to
>>detract from his credibility in the Landis case because it shows a
>>willingness by Suh to put forth disingenuous arguments that he tries to
>>pass off as credible.
>>
>>Suh should have kept his nose out of defending known dopers until
>>Landis's appeal was resolved. As it stands now, he comes across as a
>>money-hungry attorney who has no sense of righteousness. Landis doesn't
>>need that kind of attorney representing him.
>>
>>Landis is gonna lose his appeal bad and in the end he's gonna realize
>>that all Suh did was steal his daughter's college savings.
>>
>>I don't know if you guys remember what Landis did during the Morzine
>>stage, but to go from that worldwide high and winning the Tour, to being
>>villified and laughed at on YouTube and the butt of jokes on the late
>>night talk shows, and being fianciually gutted (mostly by your
>>lawyers)...Landis is well on his way to locking himself in his garage
>>one day with the engine running.
>>
>>This ain't gonna end pretty, trust me. Landis has less options in life
>>right now than Dana Plato.
>>
>>Magilla- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>- Show quoted text -
>
>
> Magilla I like your posts and thinking generally, but why suggest
> suicide? Jeez, it's just bike racing and people have come back from
> worse career disasters to find something else to do. Suicide just
> seems a little too ghoulish, especially when the guy is probably
> reminded everyday right now of his mistakes and may even be
> susceptible. Instead, how about a David Miller option? I'd book him
> for my kids school if he wanted to hit the road to talk about ethics,
> crossing the line, and consequences. Drunks that kill people do that
> all the time.


Landis will not rebound like Englishboy. For one, Millar confessed and
had some salvageable years. Landis cannot confess (assuming he did it).
Landis was stripped at the pinnacle of cycling - winning the Tour de
France - and had what many people considered to be the most incredible
stage win in Tour cycling history completely gutted and wiped off the
books.

For pros who are in contention for the Tour title, winning the Tour
means everything. It means more than you think it does.

All you have to do is look at Andy Hampsten and notice he lives in
Italy. Why? Because he won the Giro and he would never get the same
adulation and hero-worship status in the U.S. as he would from the
Italian people.

Landis is now unemployable in the sport and pretty much anywhere else
unless you're talking about a menial job somewhere pumping gas or
delivering Dominos pizza. Mentally, you can't go from the high of what
he did in Morzine to being mocked in the worldwide press and still
function normally.

Also, he is financially ruined. He didn't lose like $10k or $20k or
$50k. he lost like $15 million, maybe more.

Unless Landis wins his apppeal, this is not gonna end pretty. The
guys's entire identity and financial worth has been gutted by this
doping conviction.

Jeanson did the smart thing by not hiring a lawyer and wasting a million
dollars on a defense she knew wouldn't likely have worked.

Landis had to contest his doping positive because his losses were in the
tens of millions of dollars and his victory was one of worldwide reknown.

Once Landis' ban expires (which won't be until the start of the 2009
season) he will be too old, too out of shape, too out of vogue, and too
out of incentive. Pros rely a lot on on "super-motivation" (and
perhaps some pharm help) to do what they do. Without either, Landis
can't even find it in him to beat a girl in a mountain bike race.

But Landis will never race again if he loses his appeal. Not even with
a U.S. team. No U.S. team would likely touch the guy because he's too
tainted and symbolizes everything that's wrong with the sport.

Landis is regarded as a leper and he won't be able to deal with it after
a couple of years, if it takes even that long.

Magilla

[Donald Munro]

mtb Dad wrote:
> Magilla I like your posts and thinking generally

At least somebody loves magilla. Must be the messiah myth
spirit.

[dustoyevsky@mac.com]

On Dec 6, 4:49 pm, mtb Dad <listerfar...@telus.net> wrote:
> On Dec 6, 2:17 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > chiefhiawa...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Dec 6, 12:22 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
> > >>http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13767.0.html
>
> > >>Maruice Suh representing Vino just gives less credibility to Landis'
> > >>appeal. What a bad PR move. I wonder when Landis (and his donors)
> > >>will realize his defense wasn't worth even a fraction of $1.5 million.
>
> > > This sure doesn't help Landis, but I'm sure Suh did not agree to stop
> > > taking other clients. That is Suh's area of expertise, making sure
> > > people accused of doping offenses have good representation. Lawyers
> > > often represent people that everyone "knows" is guilty.
>
> > > I'm not disagreeing that this looks bad for Floyd, but it will not
> > > look bad to people in charge of Floyd's future, it will only look bad
> > > to the man on the street.
>
> > --
>
> > The people who decide these cases and follow the sport know that Vino is
> > guilty as hell. HIm and his punk-boy Kashechkin. And when Suh cries
> > wolf for a guy who everyone knows is a dirty player, it serves to
> > detract from his credibility in the Landis case because it shows a
> > willingness by Suh to put forth disingenuous arguments that he tries to
> > pass off as credible.
>
> > Suh should have kept his nose out of defending known dopers until
> > Landis's appeal was resolved. As it stands now, he comes across as a
> > money-hungry attorney who has no sense of righteousness. Landis doesn't
> > need that kind of attorney representing him.
>
> > Landis is gonna lose his appeal bad and in the end he's gonna realize
> > that all Suh did was steal his daughter's college savings.
>
> > I don't know if you guys remember what Landis did during the Morzine
> > stage, but to go from that worldwide high and winning the Tour, to being
> > villified and laughed at on YouTube and the butt of jokes on the late
> > night talk shows, and being fianciually gutted (mostly by your
> > lawyers)...Landis is well on his way to locking himself in his garage
> > one day with the engine running.
>
> > This ain't gonna end pretty, trust me. Landis has less options in life
> > right now than Dana Plato.
>
> > Magilla- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Magilla I like your posts and thinking generally, but why suggest
> suicide?

Good question. The ultimate scapegoating, getting the victim to kill
himself (lose this life, and maybe the next?)

> Jeez, it's just bike racing

Hold that thought.

> Instead, how about a David Miller option?

That would be one of the reasons I'd off myself. Speaking personally,
of course.

> I'd book him
> for my kids school if he wanted to hit the road to talk about ethics,
> crossing the line, and consequences. Drunks that kill people do that
> all the time.

Floyd didn't come anywhere near killing anyone.

The worst possible thing you can say about Floyd is, he was successful
in a corrupt field of endeavor.

The idea that WADA represents some kind of beacon of purity is a
horrible joke.

Pound made his bones not by "cleaning up the Olympics" (interrupting
the way real bidness works in the real world, by kickbacks and
bribes), but by bringing in the sheaves of corporate money, so all the
fine officials could line their pockets and go to those fancy lunches
and dinners and get on the jets for First Class travel to foreign
bidness shores, with no negative associations for the Public to gawk
at, unless of course they were caught up in the Enron scandal or some
other such inconvenient public relations embarrassment.

Correct me if I'm wrong <g>, weren't you the guy with children, pining
for the never-existed imaginary days of yore when competitors vied for
the love of sport or some such baloney?

If you know there's Something Wrong with Sports, there's your dadjob
right there. Perhaps a job in Marketing, or Finance?

The beach on Grand Cayman is sweet, no doubt about it. --D-y

[ilanpsi@gmail.com]

On Dec 7, 12:32 am, ilan...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 6, 7:22 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13767.0.html
>
> > Maruice Suh representing Vino just gives less credibility to Landis'
> > appeal. What a bad PR move. I wonder when Landis (and his donors)
> > will realize his defense wasn't worth even a fraction of $1.5 million.
>
> > As for Vino, it shows the UCI is corrupt because they should have known
> > that national federations will give lenient sentences to its own riders
> > - especially a national like Kazakstan who has its own national/Pro Tour
> > team. I'm not sure how allowing national federations to adjudicate
> > doping cases complies with any of the WADA Protocol that cycling was
> > forced to comply with under the threat of losing its Olympic sanction
> > back in 2000.
>
> > When you are found guilty, you get 2 years, not 1 year. Thgerefore,
> > Vino's sentence is an explicit violation of the WADA code.
>
> > Can you imagine if a Jim Ochowitz controlled board would have heard the
> > Landis doping case? Landis would have gotten nothing and Jim Ochowitz
> > would have cashed in on millions with his new iShares Pro Tour team. He
> > would have ridden the Floyd gravy train all the way to the Wiesel
> > investment bank.
>
> > Unless the UCI appeals this to CAS, the fight against doping in cycling
> > is just as corrupt as ever.
>
> > Magilla
>
> Thanks for the article, I learned that AFP and VeloNews haven't heard
> that the plan is to ban all athletes with a doping conviction from
> future Olympics.
>
> -ilan

Or was that only for 2+ year bans. Who cares....

-ilan

[MagillaGorilla]

ilanpsi@gmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 6, 7:22 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>>http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13767.0.html
>>
>>Maruice Suh representing Vino just gives less credibility to Landis'
>>appeal. What a bad PR move. I wonder when Landis (and his donors)
>>will realize his defense wasn't worth even a fraction of $1.5 million.
>>
>>As for Vino, it shows the UCI is corrupt because they should have known
>>that national federations will give lenient sentences to its own riders
>>- especially a national like Kazakstan who has its own national/Pro Tour
>>team. I'm not sure how allowing national federations to adjudicate
>>doping cases complies with any of the WADA Protocol that cycling was
>>forced to comply with under the threat of losing its Olympic sanction
>>back in 2000.
>>
>>When you are found guilty, you get 2 years, not 1 year. Thgerefore,
>>Vino's sentence is an explicit violation of the WADA code.
>>
>>Can you imagine if a Jim Ochowitz controlled board would have heard the
>>Landis doping case? Landis would have gotten nothing and Jim Ochowitz
>>would have cashed in on millions with his new iShares Pro Tour team. He
>>would have ridden the Floyd gravy train all the way to the Wiesel
>>investment bank.
>>
>>Unless the UCI appeals this to CAS, the fight against doping in cycling
>>is just as corrupt as ever.
>>
>>Magilla
>
>
> Thanks for the article, I learned that AFP and VeloNews haven't heard
> that the plan is to ban all athletes with a doping conviction from
> future Olympics.
>
> -ilan



Nah....that resolution that Jacques Roggue was talking about for the
Madrid conference only proposed banning athletes with "serious
convictions" (whatever that means) from the NEXT Olympics.

Would such a ban exclude Amber Neben from Beijing? No. David Millar
from Beijing? Yes.

David Millar from London? No.



Magilla

[Donald Munro]

ilanpsi wrote:
> Or was that only for 2+ year bans. Who cares....

Apart from Bettini and the Australians who cares about the
olympics.

[benn.trovato@hotmail.com]

>
> Landis will not rebound like Englishboy.

Millar's a Scot, you monkey.

That aside, I chanced to see some of the 2006 miracle breakaway on dvd
the other day. I'd forgotten that Landis dropped Sinkiewitz on the
road to positivity.

[Ed Sullivan]

On Dec 6, 8:15 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> mtb Dad wrote:
> > On Dec 6, 2:17 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>chiefhiawa...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>>On Dec 6, 12:22 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13767.0.html
>
> >>>>Maruice Suh representing Vino just gives less credibility to Landis'
> >>>>appeal. What a bad PR move. I wonder when Landis (and his donors)
> >>>>will realize his defense wasn't worth even a fraction of $1.5 million.
>
> >>>This sure doesn't help Landis, but I'm sure Suh did not agree to stop
> >>>taking other clients. That is Suh's area of expertise, making sure
> >>>people accused of doping offenses have good representation. Lawyers
> >>>often represent people that everyone "knows" is guilty.
>
> >>>I'm not disagreeing that this looks bad for Floyd, but it will not
> >>>look bad to people in charge of Floyd's future, it will only look bad
> >>>to the man on the street.
>
> >>--
>
> >>The people who decide these cases and follow the sport know that Vino is
> >>guilty as hell. HIm and his punk-boy Kashechkin. And when Suh cries
> >>wolf for a guy who everyone knows is a dirty player, it serves to
> >>detract from his credibility in the Landis case because it shows a
> >>willingness by Suh to put forth disingenuous arguments that he tries to
> >>pass off as credible.
>
> >>Suh should have kept his nose out of defending known dopers until
> >>Landis's appeal was resolved. As it stands now, he comes across as a
> >>money-hungry attorney who has no sense of righteousness. Landis doesn't
> >>need that kind of attorney representing him.
>
> >>Landis is gonna lose his appeal bad and in the end he's gonna realize
> >>that all Suh did was steal his daughter's college savings.
>
> >>I don't know if you guys remember what Landis did during the Morzine
> >>stage, but to go from that worldwide high and winning the Tour, to being
> >>villified and laughed at on YouTube and the butt of jokes on the late
> >>night talk shows, and being fianciually gutted (mostly by your
> >>lawyers)...Landis is well on his way to locking himself in his garage
> >>one day with the engine running.
>
> >>This ain't gonna end pretty, trust me. Landis has less options in life
> >>right now than Dana Plato.
>
> >>Magilla- Hide quoted text -
>
> >>- Show quoted text -
>
> > Magilla I like your posts and thinking generally, but why suggest
> > suicide? Jeez, it's just bike racing and people have come back from
> > worse career disasters to find something else to do. Suicide just
> > seems a little too ghoulish, especially when the guy is probably
> > reminded everyday right now of his mistakes and may even be
> > susceptible. Instead, how about a David Miller option? I'd book him
> > for my kids school if he wanted to hit the road to talk about ethics,
> > crossing the line, and consequences. Drunks that kill people do that
> > all the time.
>
> Landis will not rebound like Englishboy. For one, Millar confessed and
> had some salvageable years. Landis cannot confess (assuming he did it).
> Landis was stripped at the pinnacle of cycling - winning the Tour de
> France - and had what many people considered to be the most incredible
> stage win in Tour cycling history completely gutted and wiped off the
> books.
>
> For pros who are in contention for the Tour title, winning the Tour
> means everything. It means more than you think it does.
>
> All you have to do is look at Andy Hampsten and notice he lives in
> Italy. Why? Because he won the Giro and he would never get the same
> adulation and hero-worship status in the U.S. as he would from the
> Italian people.
>
> Landis is now unemployable in the sport and pretty much anywhere else
> unless you're talking about a menial job somewhere pumping gas or
> delivering Dominos pizza. Mentally, you can't go from the high of what
> he did in Morzine to being mocked in the worldwide press and still
> function normally.
>
> Also, he is financially ruined. He didn't lose like $10k or $20k or
> $50k. he lost like $15 million, maybe more.
>
> Unless Landis wins his apppeal, this is not gonna end pretty. The
> guys's entire identity and financial worth has been gutted by this
> doping conviction.
>
> Jeanson did the smart thing by not hiring a lawyer and wasting a million
> dollars on a defense she knew wouldn't likely have worked.
>
> Landis had to contest his doping positive because his losses were in the
> tens of millions of dollars and his victory was one of worldwide reknown.
>
> Once Landis' ban expires (which won't be until the start of the 2009
> season) he will be too old, too out of shape, too out of vogue, and too
> out of incentive. Pros rely a lot on on "super-motivation" (and
> perhaps some pharm help) to do what they do. Without either, Landis
> can't even find it in him to beat a girl in a mountain bike race.
>
> But Landis will never race again if he loses his appeal. Not even with
> a U.S. team. No U.S. team would likely touch the guy because he's too
> tainted and symbolizes everything that's wrong with the sport.
>
> Landis is regarded as a leper and he won't be able to deal with it after
> a couple of years, if it takes even that long.
>
> Magilla- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Dear Magilla,

Actually, Hampsten splits his time between the U.S. and Italy. Read
the recent interview about the 2008 Giro route where he talks about
going "home" to Boulder. In all the interviews with him I've read, it
ain't about the adulation, it's about Tuscany being a beautiful place
with good riding, good food, good wine and good people.


Ciao,

Ed

[MagillaGorilla]

benn.trovato@hotmail.com wrote:

>>Landis will not rebound like Englishboy.
>
>
> Millar's a Scot, you monkey.
>
> That aside, I chanced to see some of the 2006 miracle breakaway on dvd
> the other day. I'd forgotten that Landis dropped Sinkiewitz on the
> road to positivity.
>


Yeah, I just realized Argyle boy was a skirt right after I posted that,
but I was too ****ing apathetic to post a correction. Scotland really
isn't a country anyway. It's the backyard lawn of England (ever hear of
Scotland Yard?).

As for Sinka***** getting dropped by Landis on the way to Morzine,
that's some kind of serious **** Pound karma goin' on there.

Magilla

[david.freeman3@gmail.com]

On Dec 7, 3:01 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> ilan...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Dec 6, 7:22 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13767.0.html
>
> >>Maruice Suh representing Vino just gives less credibility to Landis'
> >>appeal. What a bad PR move. I wonder when Landis (and his donors)
> >>will realize his defense wasn't worth even a fraction of $1.5 million.
>
> >>As for Vino, it shows the UCI is corrupt because they should have known
> >>that national federations will give lenient sentences to its own riders
> >>- especially a national like Kazakstan who has its own national/Pro Tour
> >>team. I'm not sure how allowing national federations to adjudicate
> >>doping cases complies with any of the WADA Protocol that cycling was
> >>forced to comply with under the threat of losing its Olympic sanction
> >>back in 2000.
>
> >>When you are found guilty, you get 2 years, not 1 year. Thgerefore,
> >>Vino's sentence is an explicit violation of the WADA code.
>
> >>Can you imagine if a Jim Ochowitz controlled board would have heard the
> >>Landis doping case? Landis would have gotten nothing and Jim Ochowitz
> >>would have cashed in on millions with his new iShares Pro Tour team. He
> >>would have ridden the Floyd gravy train all the way to the Wiesel
> >>investment bank.
>
> >>Unless the UCI appeals this to CAS, the fight against doping in cycling
> >>is just as corrupt as ever.
>
> >>Magilla
>
> > Thanks for the article, I learned that AFP and VeloNews haven't heard
> > that the plan is to ban all athletes with a doping conviction from
> > future Olympics.
>
> > -ilan
>
> Nah....that resolution that Jacques Roggue was talking about for the
> Madrid conference only proposed banning athletes with "serious
> convictions" (whatever that means) from the NEXT Olympics.
>
> Would such a ban exclude Amber Neben from Beijing? No. David Millar
> from Beijing? Yes.
>
> David Millar from London? No.
>
Millar's already banned from Beijing, London & any other Olympics by
the BOA, as are any other British dopers in any sport (well, the ones
that have been caught, anyhow).

[Donald Munro]

benn.trovato@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Millar's a Scot, you monkey.

MagillaGorilla wrote:
> Yeah, I just realized Argyle boy was a skirt right after I posted that,
> but I was too ****ing apathetic to post a correction. Scotland really
> isn't a country anyway. It's the backyard lawn of England (ever hear of
> Scotland Yard?).

Braveheart eats monkeys for breakfast:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/26/nunion26.xml

[MagillaGorilla]

Donald Munro wrote:

> ilanpsi wrote:
>
>>Or was that only for 2+ year bans. Who cares....
>
>
> Apart from Bettini and the Australians who cares about the
> olympics.
>


I agree, the Olympics for cycling is stupid. Almost as stupid as
Olympic tennis or baseball.

But for women cyclists, the Olympics is a big deal because their end of
the sport is so demeaned from years of neglect (mostly by the women
themselves), that they all think getting an Olympic medal is what life
is all about.

Watch what happens this year in women's cycling - every single race a
rider is quoted they will say something on how this bodes well for their
training towards riding well in Beijing.

Women cyclists suffer from Michelle Kwan Syndrome when it comes to the
Olympics.

Magilla

[Ted van de Weteringe]

dustoyevsky@mac.com wrote:
> Floyd didn't come anywhere near killing anyone.

Well, there was his father in law.

[MagillaGorilla]

dustoyevsky@mac.com wrote:

> On Dec 6, 4:49 pm, mtb Dad <listerfar...@telus.net> wrote:
>
>>On Dec 6, 2:17 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>chiefhiawa...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Dec 6, 12:22 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13767.0.html
>>
>>>>>Maruice Suh representing Vino just gives less credibility to Landis'
>>>>>appeal. What a bad PR move. I wonder when Landis (and his donors)
>>>>>will realize his defense wasn't worth even a fraction of $1.5 million.
>>
>>>>This sure doesn't help Landis, but I'm sure Suh did not agree to stop
>>>>taking other clients. That is Suh's area of expertise, making sure
>>>>people accused of doping offenses have good representation. Lawyers
>>>>often represent people that everyone "knows" is guilty.
>>
>>>>I'm not disagreeing that this looks bad for Floyd, but it will not
>>>>look bad to people in charge of Floyd's future, it will only look bad
>>>>to the man on the street.
>>
>>>--
>>
>>>The people who decide these cases and follow the sport know that Vino is
>>>guilty as hell. HIm and his punk-boy Kashechkin. And when Suh cries
>>>wolf for a guy who everyone knows is a dirty player, it serves to
>>>detract from his credibility in the Landis case because it shows a
>>>willingness by Suh to put forth disingenuous arguments that he tries to
>>>pass off as credible.
>>
>>>Suh should have kept his nose out of defending known dopers until
>>>Landis's appeal was resolved. As it stands now, he comes across as a
>>>money-hungry attorney who has no sense of righteousness. Landis doesn't
>>>need that kind of attorney representing him.
>>
>>>Landis is gonna lose his appeal bad and in the end he's gonna realize
>>>that all Suh did was steal his daughter's college savings.
>>
>>>I don't know if you guys remember what Landis did during the Morzine
>>>stage, but to go from that worldwide high and winning the Tour, to being
>>>villified and laughed at on YouTube and the butt of jokes on the late
>>>night talk shows, and being fianciually gutted (mostly by your
>>>lawyers)...Landis is well on his way to locking himself in his garage
>>>one day with the engine running.
>>
>>>This ain't gonna end pretty, trust me. Landis has less options in life
>>>right now than Dana Plato.
>>
>>>Magilla- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>- Show quoted text -
>>
>>Magilla I like your posts and thinking generally, but why suggest
>>suicide?
>
>
> Good question. The ultimate scapegoating, getting the victim to kill
> himself (lose this life, and maybe the next?)
>


Where do you come up with this "getting the victim to kill himself"
stuff? I said suicide, not murder.

If you want to know why I suggest suicide, it's because if you look at
Pantani...if you look at Rasmussen's latest quotes....these guys don't
do well when they get caught.

Landis has lost everything. The guy has been financially wiped out and
lost $15 million easy, which he will never recover. Plus his Tour title
has been taken away from him and he will never race again. Even if he
were to race for some D3 U.S. team he would suck because he will be so
mentally ****ed-up that he won't be close to what he was before.

Landis' ride to Morzine was arguably one of the most compelling
Cinderella stories in modern sport history. And within days of that,
the guy went from sports superstar to international laughing stock. This
is a repeat of the Dana Plato story.

Landis could have parlayed his hip story into another LeMond gun
shot/Lance cancer comeback marketing windfall had none of this doping
stuff happened. He would have cleared at least $15-20 million easy.

Now he has nothing but YouTube videos that make fun of him. His
popularity is all but gone and his image is gradually fading from
everyone's memory. His attorneys are claiming other dopers are "just
as innocent" as Landis and it detracts from the credivbility of Floyd's
appeal.

Maurice Suh should report the French lab techs to the FBI and get them
extradited and prosecuted for fraud if he really believed what he puts
in his briefs. Now he wants the world to believe that Vinokourov and
Kashechkin are also victims of lab fraud. After a while, you stop
taking the guy seriously.

Given the fact Landis use to hit the Jack Daniels bottle hard before he
was busted, he's gonna really hit it hard now.

Magilla

[MagillaGorilla]

dustoyevsky@mac.com wrote:

> On Dec 6, 4:49 pm, mtb Dad <listerfar...@telus.net> wrote:
>
>>On Dec 6, 2:17 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>chiefhiawa...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Dec 6, 12:22 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13767.0.html
>>
>>>>>Maruice Suh representing Vino just gives less credibility to Landis'
>>>>>appeal. What a bad PR move. I wonder when Landis (and his donors)
>>>>>will realize his defense wasn't worth even a fraction of $1.5 million.
>>
>>>>This sure doesn't help Landis, but I'm sure Suh did not agree to stop
>>>>taking other clients. That is Suh's area of expertise, making sure
>>>>people accused of doping offenses have good representation. Lawyers
>>>>often represent people that everyone "knows" is guilty.
>>
>>>>I'm not disagreeing that this looks bad for Floyd, but it will not
>>>>look bad to people in charge of Floyd's future, it will only look bad
>>>>to the man on the street.
>>
>>>--
>>
>>>The people who decide these cases and follow the sport know that Vino is
>>>guilty as hell. HIm and his punk-boy Kashechkin. And when Suh cries
>>>wolf for a guy who everyone knows is a dirty player, it serves to
>>>detract from his credibility in the Landis case because it shows a
>>>willingness by Suh to put forth disingenuous arguments that he tries to
>>>pass off as credible.
>>
>>>Suh should have kept his nose out of defending known dopers until
>>>Landis's appeal was resolved. As it stands now, he comes across as a
>>>money-hungry attorney who has no sense of righteousness. Landis doesn't
>>>need that kind of attorney representing him.
>>
>>>Landis is gonna lose his appeal bad and in the end he's gonna realize
>>>that all Suh did was steal his daughter's college savings.
>>
>>>I don't know if you guys remember what Landis did during the Morzine
>>>stage, but to go from that worldwide high and winning the Tour, to being
>>>villified and laughed at on YouTube and the butt of jokes on the late
>>>night talk shows, and being fianciually gutted (mostly by your
>>>lawyers)...Landis is well on his way to locking himself in his garage
>>>one day with the engine running.
>>
>>>This ain't gonna end pretty, trust me. Landis has less options in life
>>>right now than Dana Plato.
>>
>>>Magilla- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>- Show quoted text -
>>
>>Magilla I like your posts and thinking generally, but why suggest
>>suicide?
>
>
> Good question. The ultimate scapegoating, getting the victim to kill
> himself (lose this life, and maybe the next?)
>
>
>> Jeez, it's just bike racing
>
>
> Hold that thought.
>
>
>>Instead, how about a David Miller option?
>
>
> That would be one of the reasons I'd off myself. Speaking personally,
> of course.
>
>
>>I'd book him
>>for my kids school if he wanted to hit the road to talk about ethics,
>>crossing the line, and consequences. Drunks that kill people do that
>>all the time.
>


Landis isn't even qualified to do that because he hasn't confessed and
will never confess.


Magilla

[MagillaGorilla]

dustoyevsky@mac.com wrote:

> On Dec 6, 4:49 pm, mtb Dad <listerfar...@telus.net> wrote:
>
>>On Dec 6, 2:17 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:

<SNIP>

> Floyd didn't come anywhere near killing anyone.
>
> The worst possible thing you can say about Floyd is, he was successful
> in a corrupt field of endeavor.
>
> The idea that WADA represents some kind of beacon of purity is a
> horrible joke.
>
> Pound made his bones not by "cleaning up the Olympics" (interrupting
> the way real bidness works in the real world, by kickbacks and
> bribes), but by bringing in the sheaves of corporate money, so all the
> fine officials could line their pockets and go to those fancy lunches
> and dinners and get on the jets for First Class travel to foreign
> bidness shores, with no negative associations for the Public to gawk
> at, unless of course they were caught up in the Enron scandal or some
> other such inconvenient public relations embarrassment.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong <g>, weren't you the guy with children, pining
> for the never-existed imaginary days of yore when competitors vied for
> the love of sport or some such baloney?
>
> If you know there's Something Wrong with Sports, there's your dadjob
> right there. Perhaps a job in Marketing, or Finance?
>
> The beach on Grand Cayman is sweet, no doubt about it. --D-y


I'm not sure I know what the hell you're even talking about here, but I
will respond anyway.

Nobody said Floyd killed someone. He was DQ'ed from the Tour and then
lied about for years, stealing money from many people who contributed to
his "fairness fund" under the false pretense of fighting for integrity,
for his true innocense.

That makes him a greedy dirtbag. And a major fraud. A liar. Assuming
he is guilty, that is, which we really don't know.

But anyone who would ask the public to pay for a defense is already a
narcissistic loser even if he were truly innocent because Floyd would
never have paid back any of it had been acquitted and gone on to make
millions.

The only reason I never contributed to Floyd's fund was because when I
asked if he would pay back the money if he were to be aquitted and went
on to make millions, I got no response. That means the answer to my
question was NO, but they were too dishonest to say that up front as a
policy, so they didn't respond.

What this meant was that Floyd wanted his fans to be stuck with his
legal bills even if he went on to make millions of dollars as a direct
result of their help. This negates the supposed actual reason he stated
why he was asking for the money to begin with, which was because he
claimed he couldn't afford it. If that were his real reason, it doesn't
explain why he wouldn't have promised to pay everyone back when he could
easily afford to do so.

There's something very narcissistic about somebody who would do this.
Also, when you ask for millions of dollars, you have an obligation to
disclose the amounts received and disbursed. This was never done.

Hamilton pulled the same reverse Robin Hood scheme nonsense.

Both Hamilton and Landis likely pocked significant money from their
legal funds and never disclosed it to the public. Doing something like
this is consistent with how a cheater thinks.

If Landis wins his appeal and pays everyone back, I will be the first to
make a public apology. But we know Hamilton got a contract with Tinkoff
and never had any intention to pay anyone back. Floyd is the same dog
as Hamilton, different fleas.


Magilla

[MagillaGorilla]

david.freeman3@gmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 7, 3:01 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>>ilan...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Dec 6, 7:22 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13767.0.html
>>
>>>>Maruice Suh representing Vino just gives less credibility to Landis'
>>>>appeal. What a bad PR move. I wonder when Landis (and his donors)
>>>>will realize his defense wasn't worth even a fraction of $1.5 million.
>>
>>>>As for Vino, it shows the UCI is corrupt because they should have known
>>>>that national federations will give lenient sentences to its own riders
>>>>- especially a national like Kazakstan who has its own national/Pro Tour
>>>>team. I'm not sure how allowing national federations to adjudicate
>>>>doping cases complies with any of the WADA Protocol that cycling was
>>>>forced to comply with under the threat of losing its Olympic sanction
>>>>back in 2000.
>>
>>>>When you are found guilty, you get 2 years, not 1 year. Thgerefore,
>>>>Vino's sentence is an explicit violation of the WADA code.
>>
>>>>Can you imagine if a Jim Ochowitz controlled board would have heard the
>>>>Landis doping case? Landis would have gotten nothing and Jim Ochowitz
>>>>would have cashed in on millions with his new iShares Pro Tour team. He
>>>>would have ridden the Floyd gravy train all the way to the Wiesel
>>>>investment bank.
>>
>>>>Unless the UCI appeals this to CAS, the fight against doping in cycling
>>>>is just as corrupt as ever.
>>
>>>>Magilla
>>
>>>Thanks for the article, I learned that AFP and VeloNews haven't heard
>>>that the plan is to ban all athletes with a doping conviction from
>>>future Olympics.
>>
>>>-ilan
>>
>>Nah....that resolution that Jacques Roggue was talking about for the
>>Madrid conference only proposed banning athletes with "serious
>>convictions" (whatever that means) from the NEXT Olympics.
>>
>>Would such a ban exclude Amber Neben from Beijing? No. David Millar
>>from Beijing? Yes.
>>
>>David Millar from London? No.
>>
>
> Millar's already banned from Beijing, London & any other Olympics by
> the BOA, as are any other British dopers in any sport (well, the ones
> that have been caught, anyhow).


Is Millar British or Scottish? I have no idea. If he's English than
yeah, he's banned for life.

I'm not sure why Slipstream hired a guy like Millar and then tries to
sell itself as righteous anti-dopers. Makes no sense.

They may as well hire Landis and Vinokourov too.

Magilla

[ilanpsi@gmail.com]

On Dec 7, 3:57 pm, david.freem...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 7, 3:01 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
> > ilan...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Dec 6, 7:22 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
> > >>http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13767.0.html
>
> > >>Maruice Suh representing Vino just gives less credibility to Landis'
> > >>appeal. What a bad PR move. I wonder when Landis (and his donors)
> > >>will realize his defense wasn't worth even a fraction of $1.5 million.
>
> > >>As for Vino, it shows the UCI is corrupt because they should have known
> > >>that national federations will give lenient sentences to its own riders
> > >>- especially a national like Kazakstan who has its own national/Pro Tour
> > >>team. I'm not sure how allowing national federations to adjudicate
> > >>doping cases complies with any of the WADA Protocol that cycling was
> > >>forced to comply with under the threat of losing its Olympic sanction
> > >>back in 2000.
>
> > >>When you are found guilty, you get 2 years, not 1 year. Thgerefore,
> > >>Vino's sentence is an explicit violation of the WADA code.
>
> > >>Can you imagine if a Jim Ochowitz controlled board would have heard the
> > >>Landis doping case? Landis would have gotten nothing and Jim Ochowitz
> > >>would have cashed in on millions with his new iShares Pro Tour team. He
> > >>would have ridden the Floyd gravy train all the way to the Wiesel
> > >>investment bank.
>
> > >>Unless the UCI appeals this to CAS, the fight against doping in cycling
> > >>is just as corrupt as ever.
>
> > >>Magilla
>
> > > Thanks for the article, I learned that AFP and VeloNews haven't heard
> > > that the plan is to ban all athletes with a doping conviction from
> > > future Olympics.
>
> > > -ilan
>
> > Nah....that resolution that Jacques Roggue was talking about for the
> > Madrid conference only proposed banning athletes with "serious
> > convictions" (whatever that means) from the NEXT Olympics.
>
> > Would such a ban exclude Amber Neben from Beijing? No. David Millar
> > from Beijing? Yes.
>
> > David Millar from London? No.
>
> Millar's already banned from Beijing, London & any other Olympics by
> the BOA, as are any other British dopers in any sport (well, the ones
> that have been caught, anyhow).

Not quite true: http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/26112007/3/runner-ohuruogu-s-olympic-ban-appeal-underway.html

-ilan

[Kyle Legate]

MagillaGorilla wrote:
>
> Is Millar British or Scottish? I have no idea. If he's English than
> yeah, he's banned for life.
>
Can't he race for Malta?

[david.freeman3@gmail.com]

On Dec 7, 4:18 pm, ilan...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 7, 3:57 pm, david.freem...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 7, 3:01 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > ilan...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Dec 6, 7:22 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > >>http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13767.0.html
>
> > > >>Maruice Suh representing Vino just gives less credibility to Landis'
> > > >>appeal. What a bad PR move. I wonder when Landis (and his donors)
> > > >>will realize his defense wasn't worth even a fraction of $1.5 million.
>
> > > >>As for Vino, it shows the UCI is corrupt because they should have known
> > > >>that national federations will give lenient sentences to its own riders
> > > >>- especially a national like Kazakstan who has its own national/Pro Tour
> > > >>team. I'm not sure how allowing national federations to adjudicate
> > > >>doping cases complies with any of the WADA Protocol that cycling was
> > > >>forced to comply with under the threat of losing its Olympic sanction
> > > >>back in 2000.
>
> > > >>When you are found guilty, you get 2 years, not 1 year. Thgerefore,
> > > >>Vino's sentence is an explicit violation of the WADA code.
>
> > > >>Can you imagine if a Jim Ochowitz controlled board would have heard the
> > > >>Landis doping case? Landis would have gotten nothing and Jim Ochowitz
> > > >>would have cashed in on millions with his new iShares Pro Tour team. He
> > > >>would have ridden the Floyd gravy train all the way to the Wiesel
> > > >>investment bank.
>
> > > >>Unless the UCI appeals this to CAS, the fight against doping in cycling
> > > >>is just as corrupt as ever.
>
> > > >>Magilla
>
> > > > Thanks for the article, I learned that AFP and VeloNews haven't heard
> > > > that the plan is to ban all athletes with a doping conviction from
> > > > future Olympics.
>
> > > > -ilan
>
> > > Nah....that resolution that Jacques Roggue was talking about for the
> > > Madrid conference only proposed banning athletes with "serious
> > > convictions" (whatever that means) from the NEXT Olympics.
>
> > > Would such a ban exclude Amber Neben from Beijing? No. David Millar
> > > from Beijing? Yes.
>
> > > David Millar from London? No.
>
> > Millar's already banned from Beijing, London & any other Olympics by
> > the BOA, as are any other British dopers in any sport (well, the ones
> > that have been caught, anyhow).
>
> Not quite true:http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/26112007/3/runner-ohuruogu-s-olympic-ba...
>
> -ilan- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

They let Tim Don off too. They were both found guilty of failing to
be available for out-of-competition tests, which meant a lifetime ban
from the Olympics because the BOA viewed that as the same as actually
failing a test. However they both successfully argued that the system
of notifying the testers of their wherabouts was new and that their
reasons for being in the wrong place were reasonable. I don't think
either of them claimed to be in Mexico when they were actually in
Italy.

Millar, on the other hand, was caught fair & square and is unlikely to
appeal against his BOA ban, let alone win it.

[Carl Sundquist]

<david.freeman3@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1ed98f11-d53c-415e-83b8-e609c6b0502d@w34g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> They let Tim Don off too. They were both found guilty of failing to
> be available for out-of-competition tests, which meant a lifetime ban
> from the Olympics because the BOA viewed that as the same as actually
> failing a test. However they both successfully argued that the system
> of notifying the testers of their wherabouts was new and that their
> reasons for being in the wrong place were reasonable. I don't think
> either of them claimed to be in Mexico when they were actually in
> Italy.
>
> Millar, on the other hand, was caught fair & square and is unlikely to
> appeal against his BOA ban, let alone win it.

IIRC, he wasn't "caught" fair and square. The French authorities had to
coerce a confession out of him.

[dustoyevsky@mac.com]

On Dec 7, 11:02 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:

> I'm not sure I know what the hell you're even talking about here, but I
> will respond anyway.

Maybe you should re-read?

> Nobody said Floyd killed someone.

Nor me. He was placed on the "confessed killer" scale by "mtb Dad".
He's way off toward the "not a killer" end of that scale <g> since he
didn't drive while drunk and kill someone. Rode a TdF stage while hung
over? Shades of the fabulous Anquetil?

> He was DQ'ed from the Tour and then
> lied about for years, (snip)

The lab with the chain of custody problems did some mighty quick-
steppin' ass-coverin' retro-testing to find him "positive". That's
some pretty weak "proof" of anything, in light of not only the known
problems with procedure there, but also conflict of interest
(association with TdF management/ownership, assumed national shame at
having yet another American win "their" race).


> That makes him a greedy dirtbag. And a major fraud. A liar. Assuming
> he is guilty, that is, which we really don't know.

WE REALLY DON'T KNOW. Thank you. I sure have *my* doubts.

Why the continual hammering on him, if you really don't know? This is
one of the basic problems with the War on People, the loss of
Presumption of Innocence. Or maybe you don't agree?

> But anyone who would ask the public to pay for a defense is already a
> narcissistic loser even if he were truly innocent because Floyd would
> never have paid back any of it had been acquitted and gone on to make
> millions.

I don't recall his saying anyone would be "paid back".

> The only reason I never contributed to Floyd's fund was because when I
> asked if he would pay back the money if he were to be aquitted and went
> on to make millions, I got no response. That means the answer to my
> question was NO, but they were too dishonest to say that up front as a
> policy, so they didn't respond.

Or that they don't return crank emails?
(snipping):
> Also, when you ask for millions of dollars, you have an obligation to
> disclose the amounts received and disbursed. This was never done.
>
> Hamilton pulled the same reverse Robin Hood scheme nonsense.
>
> Both Hamilton and Landis likely pocked significant money from their
> legal funds and never disclosed it to the public. Doing something like
> this is consistent with how a cheater thinks.

I'll just point out that you're the one who seems to have come up with
this idea.

> If Landis wins his appeal and pays everyone back, I will be the first to
> make a public apology. But we know Hamilton got a contract with Tinkoff
> and never had any intention to pay anyone back. Floyd is the same dog
> as Hamilton, different fleas.

The system is corrupt from top to bottom, apparently. Those on top
have found ways to make those on the bottom pay.

That's called scapegoating. Or, why not a general amnesty?

Whoa, all these supposedly smart people never thought of that? --D-y

[MagillaGorilla]

Carl Sundquist wrote:

>
> <david.freeman3@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1ed98f11-d53c-415e-83b8-e609c6b0502d@w34g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>>
>> They let Tim Don off too. They were both found guilty of failing to
>> be available for out-of-competition tests, which meant a lifetime ban
>> from the Olympics because the BOA viewed that as the same as actually
>> failing a test. However they both successfully argued that the system
>> of notifying the testers of their wherabouts was new and that their
>> reasons for being in the wrong place were reasonable. I don't think
>> either of them claimed to be in Mexico when they were actually in
>> Italy.
>>
>> Millar, on the other hand, was caught fair & square and is unlikely to
>> appeal against his BOA ban, let alone win it.
>
>
> IIRC, he wasn't "caught" fair and square. The French authorities had to
> coerce a confession out of him.


And that's why lambchops Drew Carey boy shouldn't have hired him.
Millar slandered people who pointed the finger at him and called them a
"nutter." I remember that like it was yesterday. Millar also never paid
back any purse money he won as a result of his EPO-induced performances.

Why Argyle boy hired this has-been doper to lead a supposed dope-free
team is beyond comprehension. Vaughters may as well hire Basso at this
point - at least Birillo can win races.

Magilla

[Bill C]

On Dec 7, 12:29 pm, "Carl Sundquist" <carl...@cox.net> wrote:

>
> IIRC, he wasn't "caught" fair and square. The French authorities had to
> coerce a confession out of him.

Waterboarding, and torture, isn't torture so it's perfectly acceptable
in the "War on Doping!!"
Bill C

[Ted van de Weteringe]

Carl Sundquist schreef:
> IIRC, he wasn't "caught" fair and square. The French authorities had to
> coerce a confession out of him.

Also, they "only" found epo vials at his home. He never tested positive.

[MagillaGorilla]

dustoyevsky@mac.com wrote:

> On Dec 7, 11:02 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I'm not sure I know what the hell you're even talking about here, but I
>>will respond anyway.
>
>
> Maybe you should re-read?
>
>
>>Nobody said Floyd killed someone.
>
>
> Nor me. He was placed on the "confessed killer" scale by "mtb Dad".
> He's way off toward the "not a killer" end of that scale <g> since he
> didn't drive while drunk and kill someone. Rode a TdF stage while hung
> over? Shades of the fabulous Anquetil?
>
>
>> He was DQ'ed from the Tour and then
>>lied about for years, (snip)
>
>
> The lab with the chain of custody problems did some mighty quick-
> steppin' ass-coverin' retro-testing to find him "positive". That's
> some pretty weak "proof" of anything, in light of not only the known
> problems with procedure there, but also conflict of interest
> (association with TdF management/ownership, assumed national shame at
> having yet another American win "their" race).
>


I read the CAS report. Something like 84 pages. The problem is Fraud
didn't fail 1 test. He failed 2 T:E tests and like 9 IRMS tests. In
order for Fraud to be innocent ALL of them have to be wrong.

As for your conspiracy theory, building 7 wasn't imploded, no alien
space ships have ever landed on Earth, Kennedy had the back of his head
blown off by Oswald, and Princess Die was killed by a drunk French guy
who lost control of the Mercedes.

The lab techs might have ****ed up some of the details because they
don't shave under their arms, but I don't see how that would lead to 9
failed tests.

Doesn't it concern you that Fraud passed hundreds of T:E tests
throughout his career and that the only other guy who they busted for
T:E confessed to using a testosterone patch (Sinka*****)?

Hincapie is a big doper too according to Stephanie McIlvain.

If the labs were committing fraud, how come they aren't framing Kristin
Armstrong or Amber Neben?

Wino, Herass, Kash-n-check, Vandedick, Aldouche, Ull*****, Vulvarde,
Botox, Panties, DiLusional, Moose ****....they're all a bunch of dopers.


Vaginalla

[Bill C]

On Dec 7, 12:47 pm, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
This comes under the heading of self flagellation. Monkey Boy is
imitating a jackass, a slander on a good animal, and MTB Dad would
happily command a WADA concentration/re-education camp.
You made your argument, and cast pearls before swine.
MB is the best troll to ever hit this place, but he works harder too.
Bill C

[amit.ghosh@gmail.com]

On Dec 7, 2:53 pm, Kyle Legate <lega...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> MagillaGorilla wrote:
>
> > Is Millar British or Scottish? I have no idea. If he's English than
> > yeah, he's banned for life.
>
> Can't he race for Malta?

he did once, for the"B" world championships.

[MagillaGorilla]

Ed Sullivan wrote:

> On Dec 6, 8:15 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>>mtb Dad wrote:
>>
>>>On Dec 6, 2:17 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>chiefhiawa...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>>>On Dec 6, 12:22 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13767.0.html
>>
>>>>>>Maruice Suh representing Vino just gives less credibility to Landis'
>>>>>>appeal. What a bad PR move. I wonder when Landis (and his donors)
>>>>>>will realize his defense wasn't worth even a fraction of $1.5 million.
>>
>>>>>This sure doesn't help Landis, but I'm sure Suh did not agree to stop
>>>>>taking other clients. That is Suh's area of expertise, making sure
>>>>>people accused of doping offenses have good representation. Lawyers
>>>>>often represent people that everyone "knows" is guilty.
>>
>>>>>I'm not disagreeing that this looks bad for Floyd, but it will not
>>>>>look bad to people in charge of Floyd's future, it will only look bad
>>>>>to the man on the street.
>>
>>>>--
>>
>>>>The people who decide these cases and follow the sport know that Vino is
>>>>guilty as hell. HIm and his punk-boy Kashechkin. And when Suh cries
>>>>wolf for a guy who everyone knows is a dirty player, it serves to
>>>>detract from his credibility in the Landis case because it shows a
>>>>willingness by Suh to put forth disingenuous arguments that he tries to
>>>>pass off as credible.
>>
>>>>Suh should have kept his nose out of defending known dopers until
>>>>Landis's appeal was resolved. As it stands now, he comes across as a
>>>>money-hungry attorney who has no sense of righteousness. Landis doesn't
>>>>need that kind of attorney representing him.
>>
>>>>Landis is gonna lose his appeal bad and in the end he's gonna realize
>>>>that all Suh did was steal his daughter's college savings.
>>
>>>>I don't know if you guys remember what Landis did during the Morzine
>>>>stage, but to go from that worldwide high and winning the Tour, to being
>>>>villified and laughed at on YouTube and the butt of jokes on the late
>>>>night talk shows, and being fianciually gutted (mostly by your
>>>>lawyers)...Landis is well on his way to locking himself in his garage
>>>>one day with the engine running.
>>
>>>>This ain't gonna end pretty, trust me. Landis has less options in life
>>>>right now than Dana Plato.
>>
>>>>Magilla- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>>- Show quoted text -
>>
>>>Magilla I like your posts and thinking generally, but why suggest
>>>suicide? Jeez, it's just bike racing and people have come back from
>>>worse career disasters to find something else to do. Suicide just
>>>seems a little too ghoulish, especially when the guy is probably
>>>reminded everyday right now of his mistakes and may even be
>>>susceptible. Instead, how about a David Miller option? I'd book him
>>>for my kids school if he wanted to hit the road to talk about ethics,
>>>crossing the line, and consequences. Drunks that kill people do that
>>>all the time.
>>
>>Landis will not rebound like Englishboy. For one, Millar confessed and
>>had some salvageable years. Landis cannot confess (assuming he did it).
>> Landis was stripped at the pinnacle of cycling - winning the Tour de
>>France - and had what many people considered to be the most incredible
>>stage win in Tour cycling history completely gutted and wiped off the
>>books.
>>
>>For pros who are in contention for the Tour title, winning the Tour
>>means everything. It means more than you think it does.
>>
>>All you have to do is look at Andy Hampsten and notice he lives in
>>Italy. Why? Because he won the Giro and he would never get the same
>>adulation and hero-worship status in the U.S. as he would from the
>>Italian people.
>>
>>Landis is now unemployable in the sport and pretty much anywhere else
>>unless you're talking about a menial job somewhere pumping gas or
>>delivering Dominos pizza. Mentally, you can't go from the high of what
>>he did in Morzine to being mocked in the worldwide press and still
>>function normally.
>>
>>Also, he is financially ruined. He didn't lose like $10k or $20k or
>>$50k. he lost like $15 million, maybe more.
>>
>>Unless Landis wins his apppeal, this is not gonna end pretty. The
>>guys's entire identity and financial worth has been gutted by this
>>doping conviction.
>>
>>Jeanson did the smart thing by not hiring a lawyer and wasting a million
>>dollars on a defense she knew wouldn't likely have worked.
>>
>>Landis had to contest his doping positive because his losses were in the
>>tens of millions of dollars and his victory was one of worldwide reknown.
>>
>>Once Landis' ban expires (which won't be until the start of the 2009
>>season) he will be too old, too out of shape, too out of vogue, and too
>>out of incentive. Pros rely a lot on on "super-motivation" (and
>>perhaps some pharm help) to do what they do. Without either, Landis
>>can't even find it in him to beat a girl in a mountain bike race.
>>
>>But Landis will never race again if he loses his appeal. Not even with
>>a U.S. team. No U.S. team would likely touch the guy because he's too
>>tainted and symbolizes everything that's wrong with the sport.
>>
>>Landis is regarded as a leper and he won't be able to deal with it after
>>a couple of years, if it takes even that long.
>>
>>Magilla- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>- Show quoted text -
>
>
> Dear Magilla,
>
> Actually, Hampsten splits his time between the U.S. and Italy. Read
> the recent interview about the 2008 Giro route where he talks about
> going "home" to Boulder. In all the interviews with him I've read, it
> ain't about the adulation, it's about Tuscany being a beautiful place
> with good riding, good food, good wine and good people.
>
>
> Ciao,
>
> Ed

You can't live in both countries. Perhaps if he were worth $20 million
he could pull it off, but he's not.

When I read an interview, I have to figure out how much of it is bull****.

Try it sometime.

Magilla

[Tom Kunich]

"MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
news:fjckkb$284$1@aioe.org...
>
> You can't live in both countries. Perhaps if he were worth $20 million
> he could pull it off, but he's not.
>
> When I read an interview, I have to figure out how much of it is bull****.
>
> Try it sometime.

I can point straight to all of the bull**** here and it comes under your
pseudonym used simply to protect your own reputation.

[Tom Kunich]

"Bill C" <tritonrider@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:c13d2904-d8ff-4548-8596-12d2c10bad5f@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 7, 12:47 pm, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
> This comes under the heading of self flagellation. Monkey Boy is
> imitating a jackass, a slander on a good animal, and MTB Dad would
> happily command a WADA concentration/re-education camp.
> You made your argument, and cast pearls before swine.
> MB is the best troll to ever hit this place, but he works harder too.

Imagine the scum sucking flatulence breathing whack jobs here so believe
that because a lawyer accepts another client that has less credibility that
that somehow translates to another client of that lawyer.

It's pretty plain why these guys post anonymously.

[Bill C]

On Dec 7, 7:36 pm, Ted van de Weteringe <myfulln...@xs4all.nl.invalid>
wrote:
> Carl Sundquist schreef:
>
> > IIRC, he wasn't "caught" fair and square. The French authorities had to
> > coerce a confession out of him.
>
> Also, they "only" found epo vials at his home. He never tested positive.

Yep, and I'd bet everything I have that you have a ****load of "deadly
weapons" in your home, but that doesn't make you a murderer.
Bill C

[MagillaGorilla]

Ted van de Weteringe wrote:

> Carl Sundquist schreef:
>
>> IIRC, he wasn't "caught" fair and square. The French authorities had
>> to coerce a confession out of him.
>
>
> Also, they "only" found epo vials at his home. He never tested positive.


van Helsing,

That's like saying they found my semen in your girlfriend's mouth but
there's no proof she ever gave me a blowjob.

Millar was likely using EPO his entire career. And that's why he can't
win any more (not that Slipsemen's independent dope testing system works
any better than T-Mobile's...oh I'm sorry, Team High Road).

Say, does anybody know why T-Mobile, Adidas, and Audi (and Phonak and
iShares) pulled their sponsorship? I heard they pulled it because they
got tired of the French lab techs framing cyclists.


Thanks,


Magilla

[amit.ghosh@gmail.com]

On Dec 7, 7:43 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Dec 7, 7:36 pm, Ted van de Weteringe <myfulln...@xs4all.nl.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > Carl Sundquist schreef:
>
> > > IIRC, he wasn't "caught" fair and square. The French authorities had to
> > > coerce a confession out of him.
>
> > Also, they "only" found epo vials at his home. He never tested positive.
>
> Yep, and I'd bet everything I have that you have a ****load of "deadly
> weapons" in your home, but that doesn't make you a murderer.
> Bill C

dumbass,

millar didn't have to confess, he confessed voluntarily. compared to
say armstrong, he is soft.

if this happened to armstrong he would have gotten off because he and
stapleton would've cooked up a plausible story (see: cortisone ass-
cream) that would explain to the livestrong bracelet wearing adoring
masses how there could be an epo vial in his house even though he is
clean,

[MagillaGorilla]

Bill C wrote:

> On Dec 7, 7:36 pm, Ted van de Weteringe <myfulln...@xs4all.nl.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>Carl Sundquist schreef:
>>
>>
>>>IIRC, he wasn't "caught" fair and square. The French authorities had to
>>>coerce a confession out of him.
>>
>>Also, they "only" found epo vials at his home. He never tested positive.
>
>
> Yep, and I'd bet everything I have that you have a ****load of "deadly
> weapons" in your home, but that doesn't make you a murderer.
> Bill C


Dude,

Millar admitted he took EPO. You're cute little analogy is therefore moot.

Magilla

[MagillaGorilla]

Tom Kunich wrote:

> "Bill C" <tritonrider@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:c13d2904-d8ff-4548-8596-12d2c10bad5f@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
>> On Dec 7, 12:47 pm, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
>> This comes under the heading of self flagellation. Monkey Boy is
>> imitating a jackass, a slander on a good animal, and MTB Dad would
>> happily command a WADA concentration/re-education camp.
>> You made your argument, and cast pearls before swine.
>> MB is the best troll to ever hit this place, but he works harder too.
>
>
> Imagine the scum sucking flatulence breathing whack jobs here so believe
> that because a lawyer accepts another client that has less credibility
> that that somehow translates to another client of that lawyer.
>
> It's pretty plain why these guys post anonymously.
>


In every case, Suh is asserting the lab got it all wrong. He'a actually
calling the credibility of the lab techs into question. Well, why do
you think Kash-n-check and Wino got caught for the same thing?

Let's see....how about this answer to the riddle, Joker: They were
auto-transfusing their own blood, but their handlers got 2 bags mixed up
(just like Tylenol and Santi Perez). So instead of them thinking they
couldn't get caught because autologous transfusions are not traceable,
they got busted because the bags were accidently swapped (probably due
to sloppy labeling by Wino and Kash's blood techs).

The reality is Suh should be condemning his own clients' blood bagger
tech, not the LNDD! That makes Suh a ****ing joke.

And the only other guy to get busted for T:E by the LNDD just so happens
to confess to using a testosterone patch (Sinka*****).

Floyd is gonna lose his appeal so bad it's gonna make your head spin. I
bet you half the reason why he appealed was only so he can keep the
checks coming in for his "Floyd Fairness Fund," most of which he is
probably pocketing himself.

All you people who believe that lab techs frame cyclists are members of
the Manson Family.

Magilla

[MagillaGorilla]

Tom Kunich wrote:

> "MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fjckkb$284$1@aioe.org...
>
>>
>> You can't live in both countries. Perhaps if he were worth $20
>> million he could pull it off, but he's not.
>>
>> When I read an interview, I have to figure out how much of it is
>> bull****.
>>
>> Try it sometime.
>
>
> I can point straight to all of the bull**** here and it comes under your
> pseudonym used simply to protect your own reputation.
>


Dumbass,

You think that 30 year old French female lab techs frame cyclists and
cannot offer any motive. But for some reason these same nefarious lab
techs who test thousands of other athletes and sports - track & field,
weightlifting, skiing, tennis, ice skating, rowing, ping pong...they
only choose to frame cyclists.

And then every other ****ing day for the last 6 YEARS we see a headline
like this:

http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13772.0.html

Why don't you go send Tyler Hamilton and Floyd a check so they can fight
the bad people who frame innocent cyclists.

Magilla

[MagillaGorilla]

amit.ghosh@gmail.com wrote:

> On Dec 7, 7:43 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>On Dec 7, 7:36 pm, Ted van de Weteringe <myfulln...@xs4all.nl.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Carl Sundquist schreef:
>>
>>>>IIRC, he wasn't "caught" fair and square. The French authorities had to
>>>>coerce a confession out of him.
>>
>>>Also, they "only" found epo vials at his home. He never tested positive.
>>
>>Yep, and I'd bet everything I have that you have a ****load of "deadly
>>weapons" in your home, but that doesn't make you a murderer.
>> Bill C
>
>
> dumbass,
>
> millar didn't have to confess, he confessed voluntarily. compared to
> say armstrong, he is soft.
>
> if this happened to armstrong he would have gotten off because he and
> stapleton would've cooked up a plausible story (see: cortisone ass-
> cream) that would explain to the livestrong bracelet wearing adoring
> masses how there could be an epo vial in his house even though he is
> clean,

----

Yeah, Millar just needed his Capos to use a little more muscle down at
the loading docks to make "the nutter" take a walk in the Thames with
some cement shoes. The backdated ballsack cream script that LA's
lieutenants pulled off was a textbook example of how a made man handles
"family business."

Now that Millar is riding clean (and we know this HOW, Vaughters?), his
resume looks like he photocopied Adam Bergman's resume and used that. I
mean really, there ain't much difference. Millar may as well move to
Lino Lakes, Minnesota and go to Schuler's annual barbeque. Because
that's gonna be the highlight of his cycling career from now on.

Perhaps if Drew "I had a TUE for a 52% hematocrit that I never deserved"
Carey would break out the Mach III razor one day to get rid of those
Meathead boat slips on the side of his face that is interfering with
higher cerebral cortex functions, he would realize that the main reason
he shouldn't have hired Vuelta Sissy (remember when Millar walked his
bike up the hill crying that it was too steep?) wasn't because he was a
lifelong doper who confessed and never paid back any of his victims, but
rather because without EPO, Millar is like Adam Bergman without
EPO....or Oscar Cameltoe without EPO...or Herass without EPO...or
Panties without a 63 hematocrit....they're basically just another rider
on Sierra Nevada hoping to crack the top 10 at Redlands.

Vaughters was a juicer himself (see IM exchange with Franke Andreu where
he admits to using "the hot sauce") and so he sympathizes with dopers,
which is why he hired Millar.

Vaughters should have just told Millar "Hey thanks for letting us use
the island fuel our boats on D-Day, but we don't let sissies who walk
their bikes up hills race in our publicly designed argyle kit." Argyle,
you see, is only for preppy wannabees who have fantasies about gay frat
sex with welathy NY financiers, but are otherwise still in the closet
and instead run a cycling team as a heterosexual cover story. But the
gorilla digresses.

---------

Legal Disclaimer: Nothing in this post should be interpreted to
undermine Kunich's proven theory that 30 year old French girl lab techs
in Paris frame cyclists, and only cyclists. Especially American
cyclists. Because as Koon-***** reasons, "How else can you explain all
the positives when Landis wins, you dumb ape?"

Thanks,

Magilla

[Tom Kunich]

"MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
news:fjd238$4n4$1@aioe.org...
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> Imagine the scum sucking flatulence breathing whack jobs here so believe
>> that because a lawyer accepts another client that has less credibility
>> that that somehow translates to another client of that lawyer.
>>
>> It's pretty plain why these guys post anonymously.
>
> In every case, Suh is asserting the lab got it all wrong. He'a actually
> calling the credibility of the lab techs into question.

Just because they write down the test numbers incorrectly, illegally erase
them and change them and because they perform such tests outside of the view
of witnesses? Why who would suspect them?

[Tom Kunich]

"MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
news:fjd2f0$5bq$1@aioe.org...

There's no possibility that you ever had sex with a woman you didn't pay and
you probably had to find one in urgent need of cash even for that.

[Bill C]

On Dec 7, 10:22 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > On Dec 7, 7:36 pm, Ted van de Weteringe <myfulln...@xs4all.nl.invalid>
> > wrote:
>
> >>Carl Sundquist schreef:
>
> >>>IIRC, he wasn't "caught" fair and square. The French authorities had to
> >>>coerce a confession out of him.
>
> >>Also, they "only" found epo vials at his home. He never tested positive.
>
> > Yep, and I'd bet everything I have that you have a ****load of "deadly
> > weapons" in your home, but that doesn't make you a murderer.
> > Bill C
>
> Dude,
>
> Millar admitted he took EPO. You're cute little analogy is therefore moot.
>
> Magilla- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Dude we were discussing the concept that possesion does NOT
necessarily equal usage. In His case he did both, but basic logic
tells you that if you have something you must have used it.
Simple concept.
Bill C

[MagillaGorilla]

Tom Kunich wrote:

> "MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fjd238$4n4$1@aioe.org...
>
>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Imagine the scum sucking flatulence breathing whack jobs here so
>>> believe that because a lawyer accepts another client that has less
>>> credibility that that somehow translates to another client of that
>>> lawyer.
>>>
>>> It's pretty plain why these guys post anonymously.
>>
>>
>> In every case, Suh is asserting the lab got it all wrong. He'a
>> actually calling the credibility of the lab techs into question.
>
>
> Just because they write down the test numbers incorrectly, illegally
> erase them and change them and because they perform such tests outside
> of the view of witnesses? Why who would suspect them?
>


I admit, they could lose the case because of errors like that. But how
would you explain the 7 other IRMS tests that were positive?

I'll give you some help, Tom. The CAS ruled that the other IRMS tests
could NOT be used to find Landis guilty of a T:E violation. So it's
like his fingerprints were at the crime scene, but the judge tossed them
out on a technicality.

Landis has a 1 in 1,000 chance of winning his appeal. Good luck.

Magilla

[MagillaGorilla]

Tom Kunich wrote:

> "MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fjd2f0$5bq$1@aioe.org...
>
> There's no possibility that you ever had sex with a woman you didn't pay
> and you probably had to find one in urgent need of cash even for that.
>


That's why I borrowed your fleshlight:

http://www.fleshlight.com



Magilla

[Tom Kunich]

"MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
news:fjd7pi$gui$1@aioe.org...
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> Just because they write down the test numbers incorrectly, illegally
>> erase them and change them and because they perform such tests outside of
>> the view of witnesses? Why who would suspect them?
>
> I admit, they could lose the case because of errors like that. But how
> would you explain the 7 other IRMS tests that were positive?

Leave it to you to know that they hardly EVER find a positive and yet they
found 7 of them in a row. And of course since it meets your needs for
complaining, you wouldn't for a second think there anything odd about it.

[Bill C]

On Dec 8, 8:16 am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Dec 7, 10:22 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Bill C wrote:
> > > On Dec 7, 7:36 pm, Ted van de Weteringe <myfulln...@xs4all.nl.invalid>
> > > wrote:
>
> > >>Carl Sundquist schreef:
>
> > >>>IIRC, he wasn't "caught" fair and square. The French authorities had to
> > >>>coerce a confession out of him.
>
> > >>Also, they "only" found epo vials at his home. He never tested positive.
>
> > > Yep, and I'd bet everything I have that you have a ****load of "deadly
> > > weapons" in your home, but that doesn't make you a murderer.
> > > Bill C
>
> > Dude,
>
> > Millar admitted he took EPO. You're cute little analogy is therefore moot.
>
> > Magilla- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Dude we were discussing the concept that possesion does NOT
> necessarily equal usage. In His case he did both, but basic logic
> tells you that if you have something you must have used it.
> Simple concept.
> Bill C- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Damn, I screwed the pooch on that one. Should have read, just because
you have something doesn't mean you use it.
Bill C

[MagillaGorilla]

Tom Kunich wrote:

> "MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fjd7pi$gui$1@aioe.org...
>
>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Just because they write down the test numbers incorrectly, illegally
>>> erase them and change them and because they perform such tests
>>> outside of the view of witnesses? Why who would suspect them?
>>
>>
>> I admit, they could lose the case because of errors like that. But
>> how would you explain the 7 other IRMS tests that were positive?
>
>
> Leave it to you to know that they hardly EVER find a positive and yet
> they found 7 of them in a row. And of course since it meets your needs
> for complaining, you wouldn't for a second think there anything odd
> about it.
>


Yeah, you're right. Landis is innocent and the little French girls in
white coats at the LNDD framed him because they are evil saboteuresses.

Let's do this, Tomcat. Let's you and me - and I'm serious about this -
infiltrate the LNDD lab in Paris like James Bond - double "oh" ****ing
seven.

And while we are there gathering evidence on how these..THESE ****S...
frame cute little Amish boys like Fraud who WE KNOW doesn't do dope
(because really, even though something like 60% of everyone convicted of
doping as a result of positive lab tests ends up confesssing after
calling the lab tests a total lie...none of them have ever been
cyclists... like Jeanson, Lino Lakes Icebergman, Sinka*****,
Cameltoezind, Basshole, Papp Smear, Meircatenigheigleiehgiihile).

So let's do that.

We'll get Gadget to give us some cool toys to get us out of any jams the
screenwriters dream up. You call the producers and director to set up
production. I'll drop my agent an email telling him I won't do it for
less than $10 million plus 15% on DVD sales.


Shaken, not stirred,

Magilla, Magilla Gorilla

[Howard Kveck]

In article <fjeoo3$fj1$1@aioe.org>, MagillaGorilla <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:

> Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> > "MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:fjd7pi$gui$1@aioe.org...
> >
> >> Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Just because they write down the test numbers incorrectly, illegally
> >>> erase them and change them and because they perform such tests
> >>> outside of the view of witnesses? Why who would suspect them?
> >>
> >>
> >> I admit, they could lose the case because of errors like that. But
> >> how would you explain the 7 other IRMS tests that were positive?
> >
> >
> > Leave it to you to know that they hardly EVER find a positive and yet
> > they found 7 of them in a row. And of course since it meets your needs
> > for complaining, you wouldn't for a second think there anything odd
> > about it.
> >
>
>
> Yeah, you're right. Landis is innocent and the little French girls in
> white coats at the LNDD framed him because they are evil saboteuresses.
>
> Let's do this, Tomcat. Let's you and me - and I'm serious about this -
> infiltrate the LNDD lab in Paris like James Bond - double "oh" ****ing
> seven.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sMu9fwiH3g

--
tanx,
Howard

Safe when used as directed...

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?