Tour De Cure ride

[Just A User]

Has anyone ever ridden this on a recumbent? Do they let 'bents ride? I
know lots of events are anti-recumbent. I would ride at least the 35
mile ride on my recumbent, but if they don't like recumbents, I will
only ride the 15 mile ride on my road (yuk) bike. I checked the website
and couldn't find anything that stated anything about types of bicycles
allowed.

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Dec 7, 7:47 am, Just A User <k...@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
> Has anyone ever ridden this on a recumbent? Do they let 'bents ride? I
> know lots of events are anti-recumbent. I would ride at least the 35
> mile ride on my recumbent, but if they don't like recumbents, I will
> only ride the 15 mile ride on my road (yuk) bike. I checked the website
> and couldn't find anything that stated anything about types of bicycles
> allowed.

I have seen recumbents used on the local TdC. Just don't expect much
support from the route mechanics, most (all?) couldn't spell
"recumbent", let alone work on one. Bring your own spare tubes, too.

[sally]

Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote in
news:vOqdnfrPf9OT0sTanZ2dnUVZ_r2nnZ2d@giganews.com :

> Has anyone ever ridden this on a recumbent? Do they let 'bents ride? I
> know lots of events are anti-recumbent.

What events are anti-recumbent?

[Roger Zoul]

"Just A User" <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote in message
news:vOqdnfrPf9OT0sTanZ2dnUVZ_r2nnZ2d@giganews.com ...
> Has anyone ever ridden this on a recumbent? Do they let 'bents ride? I
> know lots of events are anti-recumbent. I would ride at least the 35 mile
> ride on my recumbent, but if they don't like recumbents, I will only ride
> the 15 mile ride on my road (yuk) bike. I checked the website and couldn't
> find anything that stated anything about types of bicycles allowed.

I've never had any event around here tell me I could not ride my
recumbent...and why would they? It's a bike. Just bring your helmet,
tubes, tools, etc. If they have no stated policy against it, then assume
there is no issue.

[Tom Sherman]

sally who? wrote:
> Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote in
> news:vOqdnfrPf9OT0sTanZ2dnUVZ_r2nnZ2d@giganews.com :
>
>> Has anyone ever ridden this on a recumbent? Do they let 'bents ride? I
>> know lots of events are anti-recumbent.
>
> What events are anti-recumbent?

Anything sanctioned by the UCI.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

[nmp]

Roger Zoul wrote:

> Just bring your helmet,

Shouldn't that be properly spelt like "h*lm*t"?

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Dec 7, 6:25 pm, nmp <addr...@is.invalid> wrote:
> Roger Zoul wrote:
> > Just bring your helmet,
>
> Shouldn't that be properly spelt like "h*lm*t"?

Lest one conjure up one or more of the obsessive, agenda-wielding,
anti-helmet zealots, Gasbags or psychopaths?

[Tom Sherman]

nmp wrote:
> Roger Zoul wrote:
>
>> Just bring your helmet,
>
> Shouldn't that be properly spelt like "h*lm*t"?

Try "b i c y c l e f o a m h a t".

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fjd9gv$f10$2@registered.motzarella.org...
> sally who? wrote:
>> Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote in
>> news:vOqdnfrPf9OT0sTanZ2dnUVZ_r2nnZ2d@giganews.com :
>>
>>> Has anyone ever ridden this on a recumbent? Do they let 'bents ride? I
>>> know lots of events are anti-recumbent.
>>
>> What events are anti-recumbent?
>
> Anything sanctioned by the UCI.

I am not much in favor of these fund raising type of bike rides. Unless you
are good at hitting up your friends and neighbors, they tend to be quite
expensive. Also, I have never been able to figure out what my having a good
time on a bike ride has to do with raising money for a cause however worthy.

We have one here in Minnesota called TRAM. I wouldn't be caught dead on it
myself, but it always seems to draw a good crowd. I prefer to pay for my own
enjoyment and would feel guilty about letting others pay for it. Also, I
don't care for that sticky camaraderie that goes with most fund raising
rides. Feel good on your own time, not someone else's.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Jeff Grippe]

http://groups.msn.com/grippesphotos/tourducurewestchester62005.msnw

"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fjd9gv$f10$2@registered.motzarella.org...
> sally who? wrote:
>> Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote in
>> news:vOqdnfrPf9OT0sTanZ2dnUVZ_r2nnZ2d@giganews.com :
>>
>>> Has anyone ever ridden this on a recumbent? Do they let 'bents ride? I
>>> know lots of events are anti-recumbent.
>>
>> What events are anti-recumbent?
>
> Anything sanctioned by the UCI.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> "Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
> differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
> excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

[Roger Zoul]

"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fjd9k0$f10$3@registered.motzarella.org...
> nmp wrote:
>> Roger Zoul wrote:
>>
>>> Just bring your helmet,
>>
>> Shouldn't that be properly spelt like "h*lm*t"?
>
> Try "b i c y c l e f o a m h a t".
>

I admit that I think of it has a foam hat, but I bring them because most of
the group rides do require them and I don't want insurance / jury hassles if
I get in an accident.

Let's just face upto this: if you get hit by a drunk, cell-phone talking 4x4
driver without your foam hat while riding a bike, everyone will assume
you're an idiot and deserved your fate. There really is no other
consideration worth discussion.

[Tom Sherman]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fjd9k0$f10$3@registered.motzarella.org...
>> nmp wrote:
>>> Roger Zoul wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just bring your helmet,
>>> Shouldn't that be properly spelt like "h*lm*t"?
>> Try "b i c y c l e f o a m h a t".
>>
>
> I admit that I think of it has a foam hat, but I bring them because most of
> the group rides do require them and I don't want insurance / jury hassles if
> I get in an accident.
>
> Let's just face upto this: if you get hit by a drunk, cell-phone talking 4x4
> driver without your foam hat while riding a bike, everyone will assume
> you're an idiot and deserved your fate. There really is no other
> consideration worth discussion.

I believe I posted that same argument just a few days ago.

The influence of the helmet advocates can be seen in the press - almost
every newspaper article concerning an accident involving a cyclist
mentions whether he/she was wearing a bicycle foam hat or not.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

[bigjim@backpacker.com]

You'll be killed anyway h*l*e* or not so it's your estate that will
get the money

On Dec 8, 6:35 am, "Roger Zoul" <rogerzo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:fjd9k0$f10$3@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> > nmp wrote:
> >> Roger Zoul wrote:
>
> >>> Just bring your helmet,
>
> >> Shouldn't that be properly spelt like "h*lm*t"?
>
> > Try "b i c y c l e f o a m h a t".
>
> I admit that I think of it has a foam hat, but I bring them because most of
> the group rides do require them and I don't want insurance / jury hassles if
> I get in an accident.
>
> Let's just face upto this: if you get hit by a drunk, cell-phone talking 4x4
> driver without your foam hat while riding a bike, everyone will assume
> you're an idiot and deserved your fate. There really is no other
> consideration worth discussion.

[Roger Zoul]

"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fje5u4$vji$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> Roger Zoul wrote:
>> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:fjd9k0$f10$3@registered.motzarella.org...
>>> nmp wrote:
>>>> Roger Zoul wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Just bring your helmet,
>>>> Shouldn't that be properly spelt like "h*lm*t"?
>>> Try "b i c y c l e f o a m h a t".
>>>
>>
>> I admit that I think of it has a foam hat, but I bring them because most
>> of the group rides do require them and I don't want insurance / jury
>> hassles if I get in an accident.
>>
>> Let's just face upto this: if you get hit by a drunk, cell-phone talking
>> 4x4 driver without your foam hat while riding a bike, everyone will
>> assume you're an idiot and deserved your fate. There really is no other
>> consideration worth discussion.
>
> I believe I posted that same argument just a few days ago.
>

You did. I believe it and think it bears repeating. Moreover, I think
debates are moot because of this reason.

> The influence of the helmet advocates can be seen in the press - almost
> every newspaper article concerning an accident involving a cyclist
> mentions whether he/she was wearing a bicycle foam hat or not.
>

That's right. The anti-science / anti-think-for-yourself /
whatever-you-want-to-call-it movement is very strong. It's not worth my
effort to fight it. Fortunately, my form hat is very comfortable even
though it does, IMO, contribute to increased wind noise. Also, I don't take
it off on rides due to "foam-hat hair".

[Tom Sherman]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fje5u4$vji$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>> Roger Zoul wrote:
>>> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:fjd9k0$f10$3@registered.motzarella.org...
>>>> nmp wrote:
>>>>> Roger Zoul wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Just bring your helmet,
>>>>> Shouldn't that be properly spelt like "h*lm*t"?
>>>> Try "b i c y c l e f o a m h a t".
>>>>
>>> I admit that I think of it has a foam hat, but I bring them because most
>>> of the group rides do require them and I don't want insurance / jury
>>> hassles if I get in an accident.
>>>
>>> Let's just face upto this: if you get hit by a drunk, cell-phone talking
>>> 4x4 driver without your foam hat while riding a bike, everyone will
>>> assume you're an idiot and deserved your fate. There really is no other
>>> consideration worth discussion.
>> I believe I posted that same argument just a few days ago.
>>
>
> You did. I believe it and think it bears repeating. Moreover, I think
> debates are moot because of this reason.
>
>> The influence of the helmet advocates can be seen in the press - almost
>> every newspaper article concerning an accident involving a cyclist
>> mentions whether he/she was wearing a bicycle foam hat or not.
>>
>
> That's right. The anti-science / anti-think-for-yourself /
> whatever-you-want-to-call-it movement is very strong. It's not worth my
> effort to fight it. Fortunately, my form hat is very comfortable even
> though it does, IMO, contribute to increased wind noise. Also, I don't take
> it off on rides due to "foam-hat hair".
>
One lesson I learned during summer riding is to NEVER push back on the
helmet while wearing it. This squeezes sweat out of the cloth headband,
and the sweat stings and makes it hard to see when it runs into my eyes.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

[SMS 斯蒂文• 夏]

Roger Zoul wrote:

> That's right. The anti-science / anti-think-for-yourself /
> whatever-you-want-to-call-it movement is very strong. It's not worth my
> effort to fight it. Fortunately, my form hat is very comfortable even
> though it does, IMO, contribute to increased wind noise. Also, I don't take
> it off on rides due to "foam-hat hair".

I leave the foam bumpers on my car, and I use the foam packing material
when shipping something fragile, and I leave the foam insulation in the
refrigerator sides.

If there is _one_ thing that the AHZ's could do to gain some
credibility, it would to drop the "foam hat" schtick. It so clearly
demonstrates their anti-science, anti-think-for-yourself movement. There
are many valid reasons to oppose helmet laws, but the material that they
are constructed from is not one of them. Foam is a light, single use,
impact absorbing material, which is why it is widely used in safety
applications. Attempting to deride helmet effectiveness with the "foam
hat" schtick doesn't convince anyone.

[John Kane]

On Dec 8, 9:42 am, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
wrote:
> Roger Zoul wrote:
> > "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:fje5u4$vji$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> >> Roger Zoul wrote:
> >>> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:fjd9k0$f10$3@registered.motzarella.org...
> >>>> nmp wrote:
> >>>>> Roger Zoul wrote:
>
> >>>>>> Just bring your helmet,
> >>>>> Shouldn't that be properly spelt like "h*lm*t"?
> >>>> Try "b i c y c l e f o a m h a t".
>
> >>> I admit that I think of it has a foam hat, but I bring them because most
> >>> of the group rides do require them and I don't want insurance / jury
> >>> hassles if I get in an accident.
>
> >>> Let's just face upto this: if you get hit by a drunk, cell-phone talking
> >>> 4x4 driver without your foam hat while riding a bike, everyone will
> >>> assume you're an idiot and deserved your fate. There really is no other
> >>> consideration worth discussion.
> >> I believe I posted that same argument just a few days ago.
>
> > You did. I believe it and think it bears repeating. Moreover, I think
> > debates are moot because of this reason.
>
> >> The influence of the helmet advocates can be seen in the press - almost
> >> every newspaper article concerning an accident involving a cyclist
> >> mentions whether he/she was wearing a bicycle foam hat or not.
>
> > That's right. The anti-science / anti-think-for-yourself /
> > whatever-you-want-to-call-it movement is very strong. It's not worth my
> > effort to fight it. Fortunately, my form hat is very comfortable even
> > though it does, IMO, contribute to increased wind noise. Also, I don't take
> > it off on rides due to "foam-hat hair".
>
> One lesson I learned during summer riding is to NEVER push back on the
> helmet while wearing it. This squeezes sweat out of the cloth headband,
> and the sweat stings and makes it hard to see when it runs into my eyes.

I twice was temporarily blinded by sweat running from the helmet pads
when I went to the drops. This was a major reason for giving up
helmets: They're too dangerous.

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

[Bill Sornson]

John Kane wrote:

> I twice was temporarily blinded by sweat running from the helmet pads
> when I went to the drops. This was a major reason for giving up
> helmets: They're too dangerous.

Yeah, I threw away my hammer after banging my thumb, too! Damn thing was an
accident waiting to happen!

LOL

[Zoot Katz]

On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 09:05:52 -0800 (PST), John Kane
<jrkrideau@gmail.com> wrote:

>>
>> One lesson I learned during summer riding is to NEVER push back on the
>> helmet while wearing it. This squeezes sweat out of the cloth headband,
>> and the sweat stings and makes it hard to see when it runs into my eyes.
>
>I twice was temporarily blinded by sweat running from the helmet pads
>when I went to the drops. This was a major reason for giving up
>helmets: They're too dangerous.

Stop tweezing your eyebrows!

I wear a cotton skull cap or wool toque under my squash-pot.

Ron Hardin uses Maxi-Pads.

A "light-days" pad might suffice depending on heat, humidity and your
transpiration rate.

Granted, the heat and humidity here seldom combine to produce those
hellish muggy summer days typical in cities around the Great Lakes,
Eastern seaboard and Gulf states.

I'm not even certain an absorbent sanitary pad under a terry-cloth
head band over a wicking dew rag would work there.
--
zk

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Dec 8, 11:10 am, SMS $B;[h\J8(B* $B2F(B <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> Roger Zoul wrote:
> > That's right. The anti-science / anti-think-for-yourself /
> > whatever-you-want-to-call-it movement is very strong. It's not worth my
> > effort to fight it. Fortunately, my form hat is very comfortable even
> > though it does, IMO, contribute to increased wind noise. Also, I don't take
> > it off on rides due to "foam-hat hair".
>
> I leave the foam bumpers on my car, and I use the foam packing material
> when shipping something fragile, and I leave the foam insulation in the
> refrigerator sides.
>
> If there is _one_ thing that the AHZ's could do to gain some
> credibility, it would to drop the "foam hat" schtick. It so clearly
> demonstrates their anti-science, anti-think-for-yourself movement. There
> are many valid reasons to oppose helmet laws, but the material that they
> are constructed from is not one of them. Foam is a light, single use,
> impact absorbing material, which is why it is widely used in safety
> applications. Attempting to deride helmet effectiveness with the "foam
> hat" schtick doesn't convince anyone.



And, the "helmets make cycling more dangerous" schtick doesn't
convince anyone with the ability to think for themselves, either.

I suppose this is why the AHZs feel compelled to repeat the same
bogus, boilerplate BS over and over and over and over.....

[Tom Sherman]

SMS aka Steven "World's Foremost Expert" M. Scharf wrote:
> Roger Zoul wrote:
>
>> That's right. The anti-science / anti-think-for-yourself /
>> whatever-you-want-to-call-it movement is very strong. It's not worth
>> my effort to fight it. Fortunately, my form hat is very comfortable
>> even though it does, IMO, contribute to increased wind noise. Also, I
>> don't take it off on rides due to "foam-hat hair".
>
> I leave the foam bumpers on my car, and I use the foam packing material
> when shipping something fragile, and I leave the foam insulation in the
> refrigerator sides.

How many times has this referenced foam prevented serious head injury or
death?

> If there is _one_ thing that the AHZ's could do to gain some
> credibility, it would to drop the "foam hat" schtick. It so clearly
> demonstrates their anti-science, anti-think-for-yourself movement. There
> are many valid reasons to oppose helmet laws, but the material that they
> are constructed from is not one of them. Foam is a light, single use,
> impact absorbing material, which is why it is widely used in safety
> applications. Attempting to deride helmet effectiveness with the "foam
> hat" schtick doesn't convince anyone.

"Foam" is merely descriptive of the primary material (since the demise
of such helmets as the Bell Biker and Kiwi, true hard-shells are not to
be found among the commonly sold headgear).

"Bicycle" describes the vehicle the headgear is intended to be used with.

"Hat" is merely descriptive of the amount of actual protection the
headgear provides, based on all the CREDIBLE population studies.

Hope this helps,

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

[Zoot Katz]

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 12:40:17 -0600, Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>"Foam" is merely descriptive of the primary material (since the demise
>of such helmets as the Bell Biker and Kiwi, true hard-shells are not to
>be found among the commonly sold headgear).

I bought a skate pot because it has a thicker shell than the swooped
foam offerings for cyclists. It's still okay after ~5 years service
but I'm getting tired of it. The foam sizing pads have been replaced
a couple times.

I replaced the rotted foam parts in my ~1975 Romer kayaking helmet
and started wearing it again. It's unusual and draws complimentary
remarks from other cyclists. It has a six-point suspension system
inside thick well ventilated shell. Bees can find their way out again
without stinging you.

It always looked to me like it would work better than molded brittle
foam covered with shrink wrap in the event it may be needed.

I'm sure it's outlived any of the foam hats available at the time. I
wore it daily for 12 years and pretty consistently for the past two.

I'm going to have to examine this Deerstalker style when considering
a replacement: Looks like it would be great for this rainy climate.
"Shred Ready Sherlock Paddling Helmet"
http://tinyurl.com/2zheke
--
zk

[Tom Sherman]

Zoot Katz wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 12:40:17 -0600, Tom Sherman
> <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> "Foam" is merely descriptive of the primary material (since the demise
>> of such helmets as the Bell Biker and Kiwi, true hard-shells are not to
>> be found among the commonly sold headgear).
>
> I bought a skate pot because it has a thicker shell than the swooped
> foam offerings for cyclists. It's still okay after ~5 years service
> but I'm getting tired of it. The foam sizing pads have been replaced
> a couple times.
>
> I replaced the rotted foam parts in my ~1975 Romer kayaking helmet
> and started wearing it again. It's unusual and draws complimentary
> remarks from other cyclists. It has a six-point suspension system
> inside thick well ventilated shell. Bees can find their way out again
> without stinging you.
>
> It always looked to me like it would work better than molded brittle
> foam covered with shrink wrap in the event it may be needed.
>
> I'm sure it's outlived any of the foam hats available at the time. I
> wore it daily for 12 years and pretty consistently for the past two.
>
> I'm going to have to examine this Deerstalker style when considering
> a replacement: Looks like it would be great for this rainy climate.
> "Shred Ready Sherlock Paddling Helmet"
> http://tinyurl.com/2zheke

Zoot's choice of headgear would seem to be influenced by the relatively
cool Pacific Northwest climate. A full hardshell would be unbearable in
hot and humid conditions.

Does the Liddite Law in BC (or just Vancouver?) specify a certain
certification level, or do the police just not bother anyone who appears
to be wearing some type of helmet?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

[Zoot Katz]

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:33:40 -0600, Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>Does the Liddite Law in BC (or just Vancouver?) specify a certain
>certification level, or do the police just not bother anyone who appears
>to be wearing some type of helmet?

The MHL is Province wide. Some jurisdictions, particularly the
capital area, are more proactive in its enforcement. The Vancouver
police stop people and give out warnings usually the first week of
June. They'll write you a ticket for not wearing one if they also had
reasons to stop you for something else.

The law is vague regarding the prescribed certification. AFAICT,
there is none but there may be if The Lieutenant Governor in Council
ever decides there is.
http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/stat/M/96318_05.htm#section184

I've seen people riding in construction hard hats, hockey,
equestrian, climbing and kayak helmets. People have even been know to
wear chrome kettles, of all things.
--
zk

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Dec 8, 2:45 pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
> John Kane wrote:
> > I twice was temporarily blinded by sweat running from the helmet pads
> > when I went to the drops. This was a major reason for giving up
> > helmets: They're too dangerous.
>
> Yeah, I threw away my hammer after banging my thumb, too! Damn thing was an
> accident waiting to happen!
>
> LOL

"Hammers make workshops more dangerous!"

[Marz]

On Dec 8, 2:45 pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
> John Kane wrote:
> > I twice was temporarily blinded by sweat running from the helmet pads
> > when I went to the drops. This was a major reason for giving up
> > helmets: They're too dangerous.
>
> Yeah, I threw away my hammer after banging my thumb, too! Damn thing was an
> accident waiting to happen!
>
> LOL

Sweat in the eyes is a design flaw, smashing your own thumb with
hammer is dumb, Can you see the difference, can you?

Does LOL stand for lack of learning in your case?

[Tom Keats]

In article <a61ml3dg4chh64j5rueb12h3kl92cbgnft@4ax.com>,
Zoot Katz <zootkatz@operamail.com> writes:
> On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:33:40 -0600, Tom Sherman
> <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Does the Liddite Law in BC (or just Vancouver?) specify a certain
>>certification level, or do the police just not bother anyone who appears
>>to be wearing some type of helmet?
>
> The MHL is Province wide. Some jurisdictions, particularly the
> capital area, are more proactive in its enforcement. The Vancouver
> police stop people and give out warnings usually the first week of
> June. They'll write you a ticket for not wearing one if they also had
> reasons to stop you for something else.

June is coincidentally also our local "Bike Month."


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Bill Sornson]

Marz wrote:
> On Dec 8, 2:45 pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
>> John Kane wrote:
>>> I twice was temporarily blinded by sweat running from the helmet
>>> pads when I went to the drops. This was a major reason for giving
>>> up helmets: They're too dangerous.
>>
>> Yeah, I threw away my hammer after banging my thumb, too! Damn
>> thing was an accident waiting to happen!
>>
>> LOL
>
> Sweat in the eyes is a design flaw, smashing your own thumb with
> hammer is dumb, Can you see the difference, can you?

Only a moron wouldn't realize that pressing the pads against one's head
could result in a salty eye wash.

To no longer use a helmet because of sweat in the eyes -- much less calling
it "too dangerous" (although I suspect that was a facetious comment) -- is
the very embodiment of scapegoating operator error. As would be throwing
away a perfectly uselful tool after hurting oneself with it once.

> Does LOL stand for lack of learning in your case?

I learned how to ride with a helmet and not get sweat in my eyes...oh,
within a minute of my first ride with one. Sorry that task was too much for
you even after all these years.

LOL indeed... BS

[John Kane]

On Dec 8, 10:13 pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
> Marz wrote:
> > On Dec 8, 2:45 pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
> >> John Kane wrote:
> >>> I twice was temporarily blinded by sweat running from the helmet
> >>> pads when I went to the drops. This was a major reason for giving
> >>> up helmets: They're too dangerous.
>
> >> Yeah, I threw away my hammer after banging my thumb, too! Damn
> >> thing was an accident waiting to happen!
>
> >> LOL
>
> > Sweat in the eyes is a design flaw, smashing your own thumb with
> > hammer is dumb, Can you see the difference, can you?
>
> Only a moron wouldn't realize that pressing the pads against one's head
> could result in a salty eye wash.

Except of course, I didn't press the pads against my head. I went
from the riding on the hoods to the drops. I normally do not pound my
head on the handle bars when doing this.



>
> To no longer use a helmet because of sweat in the eyes -- much less calling
> it "too dangerous" (although I suspect that was a facetious comment)

Not at all. Going temporily blind while descending a long curving
hill at 70 km/hr makes wearing helmet far to dangerous for me.

-- is
> the very embodiment of scapegoating operator error. As would be throwing
> away a perfectly uselful tool after hurting oneself with it once.

The helmet was serving no usefull purpose anyway and while I suppose
it could be called operator error, wearing a helmet does not sound
like operating a powertool .

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

>
> > Does LOL stand for lack of learning in your case?
>
> I learned how to ride with a helmet and not get sweat in my eyes...oh,
> within a minute of my first ride with one. Sorry that task was too much for
> you even after all these years.
>
> LOL indeed... BS

[Marz]

On Dec 8, 9:13 pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
> Marz wrote:
> > On Dec 8, 2:45 pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
> >> John Kane wrote:
> >>> I twice was temporarily blinded by sweat running from the helmet
> >>> pads when I went to the drops. This was a major reason for giving
> >>> up helmets: They're too dangerous.
>
> >> Yeah, I threw away my hammer after banging my thumb, too! Damn
> >> thing was an accident waiting to happen!
>
> >> LOL
>
> > Sweat in the eyes is a design flaw, smashing your own thumb with
> > hammer is dumb, Can you see the difference, can you?
>
> Only a moron wouldn't realize that pressing the pads against one's head
> could result in a salty eye wash.
>
> To no longer use a helmet because of sweat in the eyes -- much less calling
> it "too dangerous" (although I suspect that was a facetious comment) -- is
> the very embodiment of scapegoating operator error. As would be throwing
> away a perfectly uselful tool after hurting oneself with it once.
>
> > Does LOL stand for lack of learning in your case?
>
> I learned how to ride with a helmet and not get sweat in my eyes...oh,
> within a minute of my first ride with one. Sorry that task was too much for
> you even after all these years.
>
> LOL indeed... BS

I have thrown away a helmet because it was designed badly and allowed
a stream of sweat to flow over my eyes, I bought a better one that
directed the sweat down the sides of my head.

A bad tool is a bad tool and, yes, a good workmen should never blame
his tools. Cycle helmets on the whole are poorly designed tools that
do a barely adequate job. Their benefits, in my opinion, do outweigh
the risks and there are risks in wearing a helmet. Sweat in the eyes
at the wrong moment is one of them.

How did you learn to avoid getting sweat in your eyes in under one
minute of your first ride. Were you sweaty before you get on the bike?

[Tom Sherman]

Zoot Katz wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 09:05:52 -0800 (PST), John Kane
> <jrkrideau@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> One lesson I learned during summer riding is to NEVER push back on the
>>> helmet while wearing it. This squeezes sweat out of the cloth headband,
>>> and the sweat stings and makes it hard to see when it runs into my eyes.
>> I twice was temporarily blinded by sweat running from the helmet pads
>> when I went to the drops. This was a major reason for giving up
>> helmets: They're too dangerous.
>
> Stop tweezing your eyebrows!

You would need to have eyebrows like Leonid Brezhnev for that to work.

> I wear a cotton skull cap or wool toque under my squash-pot.
>
> Ron Hardin uses Maxi-Pads.

Yeah, one would sweat a lot on a Huffy.

> A "light-days" pad might suffice depending on heat, humidity and your
> transpiration rate.
>
> Granted, the heat and humidity here seldom combine to produce those
> hellish muggy summer days typical in cities around the Great Lakes,
> Eastern seaboard and Gulf states.
>
> I'm not even certain an absorbent sanitary pad under a terry-cloth
> head band over a wicking dew rag would work there.

Tell that to Bill "BS" Sornson. When the helmet pads are saturated, even
a minor angle adjustment can squeeze a lot of sweat out.

Similarly, those who "poo poo" the notion of carrying a lot of drinking
fluids on the bicycle, likely do not do long rides in the country in hot
and humid conditions. After a double metric century, my green bodysock
had large white salt stains on each side.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

[John Kane]

On Dec 8, 10:54 pm, Zoot Katz <zootk...@operamail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 09:05:52 -0800 (PST), John Kane
>
> <jrkrid...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> One lesson I learned during summer riding is to NEVER push back on the
> >> helmet while wearing it. This squeezes sweat out of the cloth headband,
> >> and the sweat stings and makes it hard to see when it runs into my eyes.
>
> >I twice was temporarily blinded by sweat running from the helmet pads
> >when I went to the drops. This was a major reason for giving up
> >helmets: They're too dangerous.
>
> Stop tweezing your eyebrows!
>
> I wear a cotton skull cap or wool toque under my squash-pot.
>
> Ron Hardin uses Maxi-Pads.
>
> A "light-days" pad might suffice depending on heat, humidity and your
> transpiration rate.
>
> Granted, the heat and humidity here seldom combine to produce those
> hellish muggy summer days typical in cities around the Great Lakes,
> Eastern seaboard and Gulf states.
>
> I'm not even certain an absorbent sanitary pad under a terry-cloth
> head band over a wicking dew rag would work there.
> --
> zk

It's much simpler just to not wear styrofoam hats. :) Cheaper too.

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

[Tom Keats]

In article <fjfphe$16h$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> writes:

> After a double metric century, my green bodysock
> had large white salt stains on each side.

Heh. You reminded me of the Trailer Park Boys
episode: The Green Bastard.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[datakoll]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YjAlL7KlXg

[Sheldon Brown]

Quoth Edward Dolan the Great:

> I am not much in favor of these fund raising type of bike rides. Unless you
> are good at hitting up your friends and neighbors, they tend to be quite
> expensive. Also, I have never been able to figure out what my having a good
> time on a bike ride has to do with raising money for a cause however worthy.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/thons

Sheldon "Ride For Fun" Brown
+------------------------------------------------+
| Love at its best means marriage, and it is |
| altogether the most beautiful thing in life |
| -- William Dean Howells |
+------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

[andresmuro@aol.com]

On Dec 9, 8:06 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YjAlL7KlXg

I looked for the train vs Ed Dolan.

[Tom Sherman]

datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YjAlL7KlXg

I was expecting something more like this with the school bus:
<http://eddirt.frozenreality.co.uk/index.php?id=241>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

[datakoll]

DOLAN'S ON THE BUS

[Zoot Katz]

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 08:57:48 -0800 (PST), John Kane
<jrkrideau@gmail.com> wrote:

>It's much simpler just to not wear styrofoam hats. :) Cheaper too.

My not wearing a helmet could result in a $75 fine. I hate gambling.

It's a talisman more than anything. I've worn one since long before
our MHL. The law has only created the exaggerated image of cycling
being dangerous and that non-helmeted cyclists are criminals.

It's always represented to me a reminder to cover my ass, so to
speak. That I've never used it in its intended capacity could be
taken as testament that it works.

Wow! Maybe it even bears magical properties beyond those
extraordinary powers claimed by the proselytising Liddites.

We need more data.
--
zk

[Tom Keats]

In article <03kol35e25oej4airmk25c9bsprej8atbu@4ax.com>,
Zoot Katz <zootkatz@operamail.com> writes:

> Wow! Maybe it even bears magical properties beyond those
> extraordinary powers claimed by the proselytising Liddites.

Along with my rain cape, I also lost my magic
helmet cover -- the one that stops it (the weather)
from raining.

Oh well. That thing should never have been within
mortal grasp in the first place.

Tonight was a beauty for riding. It (the weather)
tried to freeze but failed. The asphalt streets
had all these magic pixie dust sparkles in it.
For a moment I thought it (the weather) was beginning
to rain, but soon ascertained I was just riding through
half-frozen dew falling out the air.

Northbound on Heather from King Edward (or was it 33rd?)
I saw some big culverts on the streetside, waiting to
be installed. I considered riding through one but
quickly shone that idea on. Fearing black ice, I took
the hill down from King Ed very gingerly.

There appears to be some sort of high-falootin' tour
being set up for the Canada Line in Cambie Village.
The Choices Market there has some nice grapefruits --
the big ones, not those stoopid, stunted/runted, li'l
navel orange-sized ones.

I forsook my bucket to wear my Kerrisdale Lumber hat
instead. I should have worn my ear-warming toque.
In Cambie Village there was a Vancouver Traffic Authority
cop car blocking the street. I walked my bike past the
cops until I was out of sight, up the lane across from
the Starbucks @ Cambie & 19th.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[John Kane]

On Dec 9, 4:09 pm, Zoot Katz <zootk...@operamail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 08:57:48 -0800 (PST), John Kane
>
> <jrkrid...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >It's much simpler just to not wear styrofoam hats. :) Cheaper too.
>
> My not wearing a helmet could result in a $75 fine. I hate gambling.

Ah yes, I forgot about that. Luckily the idiots at Queen's Park did
not apply the law here to adults. Of course, as far as we can tell the
police don't enforce it anyway even for kids although I did see a
12-14 year old boy warned by the police about not having a helmet as
he was illegally cycling on the sidewalk !!

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

>
> It's a talisman more than anything. I've worn one since long before
> our MHL. The law has only created the exaggerated image of cycling
> being dangerous and that non-helmeted cyclists are criminals.
>
> It's always represented to me a reminder to cover my ass, so to
> speak. That I've never used it in its intended capacity could be
> taken as testament that it works.
>
> Wow! Maybe it even bears magical properties beyond those
> extraordinary powers claimed by the proselytising Liddites.


I was listening to CBC Sunday and Frank Mahavolich (sp?) was
discussing hockey violence. He seemed to be talking about risk
compensation with helmets, pads etc.

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

[datakoll]

They let Brown out again.

Listen xsjhedlon, while you're out, try EMERSON'S QUOTES on the
opening page.

[Bill Sornson]

Marz wrote:
{snip}

> How did you learn to avoid getting sweat in your eyes in under one
> minute of your first ride. Were you sweaty before you get on the bike?

I know this offends the sensibility (such that it is) of the AHZ crowd, but
I used -- gasp! -- COMMON SENSE. In this case, it was fairly obvious that
wearing a -- gasp! -- SWEAT BAND would prevent -- gasp! -- SWEAT from
pouring down from the helmet and into my eyes. Had worked like a charm from
the very first ride.

It's -- gasp! -- really not that complicated... B(gasp!)S

[Tom Keats]

In article <e9b2a86e-534d-47ba-86c8-eef8fb29cc0e@e67g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
Marz <marzjennings@gmail.com> writes:

> A bad tool is a bad tool and, yes, a good workmen should never blame
> his tools. Cycle helmets on the whole are poorly designed tools that
> do a barely adequate job.

That settles it! From now on I'm getting my buckets from
the Dollar Stores -- those purveyors of Made-in-China
cheap, beautiful, replacable junk.

> Their benefits, in my opinion, do outweigh
> the risks and there are risks in wearing a helmet. Sweat in the eyes
> at the wrong moment is one of them.

Getting bees/wasps stuck in the vents/holes is another. Or two.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Tom Sherman]

Bill Sornson wrote:
> Marz wrote:
> {snip}
>
>> How did you learn to avoid getting sweat in your eyes in under one
>> minute of your first ride. Were you sweaty before you get on the bike?
>
> I know this offends the sensibility (such that it is) of the AHZ crowd, but
> I used -- gasp! -- COMMON SENSE. In this case, it was fairly obvious that
> wearing a -- gasp! -- SWEAT BAND would prevent -- gasp! -- SWEAT from
> pouring down from the helmet and into my eyes. Had worked like a charm from
> the very first ride.
>
> It's -- gasp! -- really not that complicated... B(gasp!)S

Mr. Sornson should be aware that if there is room for a sweatband below
the helmet on his forehead, then he is wearing the helmet too far back
on his head.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

[Marz]

On Dec 9, 9:57 pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
> Marz wrote:
>
> {snip}
>
> > How did you learn to avoid getting sweat in your eyes in under one
> > minute of your first ride. Were you sweaty before you get on the bike?
>
> I know this offends the sensibility (such that it is) of the AHZ crowd, but
> I used -- gasp! -- COMMON SENSE. In this case, it was fairly obvious that
> wearing a -- gasp! -- SWEAT BAND would prevent -- gasp! -- SWEAT from
> pouring down from the helmet and into my eyes. Had worked like a charm from
> the very first ride.
>
> It's -- gasp! -- really not that complicated... B(gasp!)S

Ah, so you were aware of the design flaw and fixed the problem it with
a sweat band.

I'm not a AHZ, but you are offensive.

[Tom Keats]

In article <6835f63d-5312-46e8-b54c-73fa596693c4@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Marz <marzjennings@gmail.com> writes:
> On Dec 9, 9:57 pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
>> Marz wrote:
>>
>> {snip}
>>
>> > How did you learn to avoid getting sweat in your eyes in under one
>> > minute of your first ride. Were you sweaty before you get on the bike?
>>
>> I know this offends the sensibility (such that it is) of the AHZ crowd, but
>> I used -- gasp! -- COMMON SENSE. In this case, it was fairly obvious that
>> wearing a -- gasp! -- SWEAT BAND would prevent -- gasp! -- SWEAT from
>> pouring down from the helmet and into my eyes. Had worked like a charm from
>> the very first ride.
>>
>> It's -- gasp! -- really not that complicated... B(gasp!)S
>
> Ah, so you were aware of the design flaw and fixed the problem it with
> a sweat band.

I simply refuse to sweat.

And that works for me, 'cuz I ain't an overweight
meat pie with too many body parts that jiggle.

> I'm not a AHZ, but you are offensive.

Offense is in the mind/nose of the beholder.

Good thing we can't smell Usenet.

O' course I can smell Ed Dougan from a
mile away. That's neither here nor there.

Wear/don't wear your Courage For Your Head
in good & pleasant circumstances.

Please take enough care about yerself to
not get killed. The world needs you.
I'll respectfully leave your own care-taking
up to yourself, just as you do for me.
And that's how it should be.

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[frkrygow@gmail.com]

On Dec 10, 12:37 am, Marz <marzjenni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 9, 9:57 pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
>
> > I know this offends the sensibility (such that it is) of the AHZ crowd, but
> > I used -- gasp! -- COMMON SENSE. In this case, it was fairly obvious that
> > wearing a -- gasp! -- SWEAT BAND would prevent -- gasp! -- SWEAT from
> > pouring down from the helmet and into my eyes. Had worked like a charm from
> > the very first ride.
>
> > It's -- gasp! -- really not that complicated... B(gasp!)S
>
> Ah, so you were aware of the design flaw and fixed the problem it with
> a sweat band.

I suspect that if Sornson was able to fix the problem with a sweat
band, it's only because he lives in an area with relatively low
humidity. East of the Mississippi, sweat is much more of a problem.

I tried sweat bands. They merely delayed the problem. And as another
poster described, the problem had nothing to do with pushing back on
the helmet. Very frequently, when I moved from the top of the bars to
the drops, I'd get an eyeful of blinding sweat. It was most extreme
when I'd climbed a tough hill, then crouched to take advantage of the
downhill.

The problem isn't uncommon. As far back as 1980, I recall friends who
modified the front pads of their helmets trying to prevent sweat in
the eyes. I know people who tried the thin, non-absorbent plastic
"gutter" headbands advertised in the back of Buycycling magazine, and
I tried one myself. (Didn't help.)

And I still know people who ride with their helmets tilted far back to
expose their forehead to cooling air. They apparently believe that
as long as the holy styrofoam is somewhere near their skull, they will
be magically protected.

Sornson may be one of them.

- Frank Krygowski

[Just A User]

frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 10, 12:37 am, Marz <marzjenni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 9, 9:57 pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
>>
>>> I know this offends the sensibility (such that it is) of the AHZ crowd, but
>>> I used -- gasp! -- COMMON SENSE. In this case, it was fairly obvious that
>>> wearing a -- gasp! -- SWEAT BAND would prevent -- gasp! -- SWEAT from
>>> pouring down from the helmet and into my eyes. Had worked like a charm from
>>> the very first ride.
>>> It's -- gasp! -- really not that complicated... B(gasp!)S
>> Ah, so you were aware of the design flaw and fixed the problem it with
>> a sweat band.
>
> I suspect that if Sornson was able to fix the problem with a sweat
> band, it's only because he lives in an area with relatively low
> humidity. East of the Mississippi, sweat is much more of a problem.
>
> I tried sweat bands. They merely delayed the problem. And as another
> poster described, the problem had nothing to do with pushing back on
> the helmet. Very frequently, when I moved from the top of the bars to
> the drops, I'd get an eyeful of blinding sweat. It was most extreme
> when I'd climbed a tough hill, then crouched to take advantage of the
> downhill.
>
> The problem isn't uncommon. As far back as 1980, I recall friends who
> modified the front pads of their helmets trying to prevent sweat in
> the eyes. I know people who tried the thin, non-absorbent plastic
> "gutter" headbands advertised in the back of Buycycling magazine, and
> I tried one myself. (Didn't help.)
>
> And I still know people who ride with their helmets tilted far back to
> expose their forehead to cooling air. They apparently believe that
> as long as the holy styrofoam is somewhere near their skull, they will
> be magically protected.
>
> Sornson may be one of them.
>
> - Frank Krygowski

When I sweat riding an upright bicycle I find sweat to be much more of
an issue than when I ride my recumbent. I guess maybe it has to due with
the overall position of my head. I still ride the recumbent with a
headsweat but find that it absorbs the sweat better and the moisture
seems to run down the side on my head and face rather than into my eyes.

[Tom Sherman]

Just A User wrote:
>
> When I sweat riding an upright bicycle I find sweat to be much more of
> an issue than when I ride my recumbent. I guess maybe it has to due with
> the overall position of my head. I still ride the recumbent with a
> headsweat but find that it absorbs the sweat better and the moisture
> seems to run down the side on my head and face rather than into my eyes.

Hey, you are not allowed to mention benefits of recumbents on
rec.bicycles.*!

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

[Just A User]

Tom Sherman wrote:
> Just A User wrote:
>>
>> When I sweat riding an upright bicycle I find sweat to be much more of
>> an issue than when I ride my recumbent. I guess maybe it has to due
>> with the overall position of my head. I still ride the recumbent with
>> a headsweat but find that it absorbs the sweat better and the moisture
>> seems to run down the side on my head and face rather than into my eyes.
>
> Hey, you are not allowed to mention benefits of recumbents on
> rec.bicycles.*!
>

My bad, I guess maybe I should go hang out with the erectile dysfunction
guy over at ARBR. NOT. I gave up on that group until some posts a link
to his obituary.