Hincapie the Cause of the T-Mobile Demise? [Archive]

MagillaGorilla

12-31-1969, 08:00 PM

When you read the Spiegel article, it's important to keep in mind that
Bob Stapleton was hired under the claim he was going to implement some
kind of "state-of-the-art" anti-doping program at T-Mobile.

Georgio Hincrapie, recently hired by High Road in 2007, was
alleged to be a chronic doper by Lance Armstrong's personal agent at
Oakley, Stephanie McIlvain, in a surreptiously recorded phone call by
Greg LemonD (aka "The Tool"). This recording has been available for the
past 3 years, but apparently Bob Stapleton has either never heard it or
doesn't want to hear it. Either way, Staplehead is an ostrich with his
head in the sand.

The Spiegel article has a nice little section on page 2 that intimates
Hincapie's hiring might have been the straw that broke the camel's back
which resulted in Deutsche Telekom finally pulling the plug.

--------
from Spiegel:

In keeping with this philosophy, Stapleton had no qualms about signing
fellow American George Hincapie for the coming season. Hincapie, 34, was
Lance Armstrong's trusted lieutenant during his series of Tour
victories. In 2005, the tall American won the most difficult mountain
stage of the Tour, even though he had never excelled as a mountain
specialist before. For Telekom, Hincapie was just another image problem,
a time bomb because he probably knows a great deal about Armstrong's
miraculous trail of victories. But for Stapleton he was a solid rider
with a clean record who was willing to conform to the team's anti-doping
policies. Despite the company's attempts to convince him to change his
mind, Stapleton insisted on hiring Hincapie.

The rift between Stapleton and Telekom had become so wide that the
separation had to be painstakingly negotiated. On Nov. 6, the company's
board of directors decided to examine ways to get rid of Stapleton
immediately. The simplest approach was not an option.

--------

Also, Rolf Aldag, current manager of High Road, confessed to being a
chronic doper throughout his career as a rider. Yet Staplerhead keeps
Alldouche on in the role of team manager simply because he "confessed."
This is the equivalent of a police department hiring a pedophile to
run its Special Victims Unit just because he confessed.

The Germans must be some real deep throat cocksuckers for these very
public crybaby press conference confessions as some kind of vestigial
retroactive remorse for that little concentration camp thing they let
happen back in WWII. In reality, a confession means little, especially
if you don't give back any of the illegal proceeds you STOLE as a result
of your cheating, which none of these "confessors" ever do (reference:
any number of Matt "Kid Adrenaline" DeCanio rants).

This is why Jeanson's confession is hollow.

In the U.S. federal court system, confessing means nothing in sentencing
guidelines. However, restitution does. If you steal money from a bank,
a federal prosecutor doesn't give a donkey **** if you confessed to it
or not - he only cares if you pay it back. That's because a confession
without victim compensation is just another selfish act by the person
making it to clear their own conscience without caring about redressing
the victim(s) injuries/loss.

After confessing to using EPO (and never returning a single penny of
prize money or salary, of course), it was discovered Eric Zabel was in
negotiations with Staplerhead for a contract in 2008. Stapleton said he
would welcome not only Crybaby back but, get this, Sinka***** as well!

Finally, the two doctors from the Freiberg Clinic who Staplerhead hired
to oversee this state-of-the-art anti-doping program - Drs. Lothar
Heinrich and Andreas Schmidt - as it turns out, were both Dr. Mengele's
in disguise. They were EPO and blood transfusion traffickers - kingpins
of the doping underworld in cycling who actually managed and
administrated the doping program at T-Mobile for years!

This is like hiring George Bush to be the Dean of your Foreign Affairs
Department at a university and then wondering why you notice three new
courses for the Fall Semester with the title: "Drop Bombs First, Ask
Questions Later 101."

Then, in retaliation for not wanting to give such a fraudulently managed
team $20 million/year, Scissorhands hires private detectives to
investigate Deutsche Telekom to dig up dirt on them so he can use that
information to blackmail them into a higher severance payout!

This guy just showed his hand. And all he had the entire time were JOKERS.

Thanks,

Magilla

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,522031-2,00.html

Rex Crater

01-03-1970, 09:41 PM

http://www.smithersmpls.com/audio/gregstef.mp3

"MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
news:fjenlt$cj0$1@aioe.org...
> When you read the Spiegel article, it's important to keep in mind that Bob
> Stapleton was hired under the claim he was going to implement some kind of
> "state-of-the-art" anti-doping program at T-Mobile.
>
> Georgio Hincrapie, recently hired by High Road in 2007, was
> alleged to be a chronic doper by Lance Armstrong's personal agent at
> Oakley, Stephanie McIlvain, in a surreptiously recorded phone call by
> Greg LemonD (aka "The Tool"). This recording has been available for the
> past 3 years, but apparently Bob Stapleton has either never heard it or
> doesn't want to hear it. Either way, Staplehead is an ostrich with his
> head in the sand.
>
> The Spiegel article has a nice little section on page 2 that intimates
> Hincapie's hiring might have been the straw that broke the camel's back
> which resulted in Deutsche Telekom finally pulling the plug.
>
> --------
> from Spiegel:
>
> In keeping with this philosophy, Stapleton had no qualms about signing
> fellow American George Hincapie for the coming season. Hincapie, 34, was
> Lance Armstrong's trusted lieutenant during his series of Tour victories.
> In 2005, the tall American won the most difficult mountain stage of the
> Tour, even though he had never excelled as a mountain specialist before.
> For Telekom, Hincapie was just another image problem, a time bomb because
> he probably knows a great deal about Armstrong's miraculous trail of
> victories. But for Stapleton he was a solid rider with a clean record who
> was willing to conform to the team's anti-doping policies. Despite the
> company's attempts to convince him to change his mind, Stapleton insisted
> on hiring Hincapie.
>
> The rift between Stapleton and Telekom had become so wide that the
> separation had to be painstakingly negotiated. On Nov. 6, the company's
> board of directors decided to examine ways to get rid of Stapleton
> immediately. The simplest approach was not an option.
>
> --------
>
> Also, Rolf Aldag, current manager of High Road, confessed to being a
> chronic doper throughout his career as a rider. Yet Staplerhead keeps
> Alldouche on in the role of team manager simply because he "confessed."
> This is the equivalent of a police department hiring a pedophile to run
> its Special Victims Unit just because he confessed.
>
> The Germans must be some real deep throat cocksuckers for these very
> public crybaby press conference confessions as some kind of vestigial
> retroactive remorse for that little concentration camp thing they let
> happen back in WWII. In reality, a confession means little, especially if
> you don't give back any of the illegal proceeds you STOLE as a result of
> your cheating, which none of these "confessors" ever do (reference: any
> number of Matt "Kid Adrenaline" DeCanio rants).
>
> This is why Jeanson's confession is hollow.
>
> In the U.S. federal court system, confessing means nothing in sentencing
> guidelines. However, restitution does. If you steal money from a bank, a
> federal prosecutor doesn't give a donkey **** if you confessed to it or
> not - he only cares if you pay it back. That's because a confession
> without victim compensation is just another selfish act by the person
> making it to clear their own conscience without caring about redressing
> the victim(s) injuries/loss.
>
> After confessing to using EPO (and never returning a single penny of prize
> money or salary, of course), it was discovered Eric Zabel was in
> negotiations with Staplerhead for a contract in 2008. Stapleton said he
> would welcome not only Crybaby back but, get this, Sinka***** as well!
>
> Finally, the two doctors from the Freiberg Clinic who Staplerhead hired to
> oversee this state-of-the-art anti-doping program - Drs. Lothar Heinrich
> and Andreas Schmidt - as it turns out, were both Dr. Mengele's in
> disguise. They were EPO and blood transfusion traffickers - kingpins of
> the doping underworld in cycling who actually managed and administrated
> the doping program at T-Mobile for years!
>
> This is like hiring George Bush to be the Dean of your Foreign Affairs
> Department at a university and then wondering why you notice three new
> courses for the Fall Semester with the title: "Drop Bombs First, Ask
> Questions Later 101."
>
> Then, in retaliation for not wanting to give such a fraudulently managed
> team $20 million/year, Scissorhands hires private detectives to
> investigate Deutsche Telekom to dig up dirt on them so he can use that
> information to blackmail them into a higher severance payout!
>
> This guy just showed his hand. And all he had the entire time were
> JOKERS.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Magilla
>
> http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,522031-2,00.html

Mike Jacoubowsky

01-03-1970, 09:41 PM

> In 2005, the tall American won the most difficult mountain stage of the
> Tour, even though he had never excelled as a mountain specialist before.

Talk about taking something out of context. Perhaps we should look at what
Periero thought about that stage-
=================
Said a rather pissed Pereiro at the finish line: "I asked him [Hincapie] to
work, as we had to collaborate to battle it out in a sprint - but he didn't.
Sometimes it's not the strongest that wins. I think I showed I was one the
guys that wanted this stage the most. I thought there was victory in it for
me, but that's life... I'll continue trying and one day I hope to be
rewarded. Now, I'll continue to help Floyd [Landis] get on the podium."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2005/tour05/?id=results/tour0515
=================
If you want to make a case for George performing unrealistically, you'd look
at all those times he was pushing the tempo at the front for the first
third, maybe more, of the major climbs. After having been working the race
on the flats as well.

But stage 15 of the '05 TdF was one of those nobody's working stages,
allowing a break to get away almost by accident. Neither rider was in a
position to make it to the podium at the finish; Hincapie ended up 14th, 23
minutes down, and Perieor 10th at 16 minutes down (10 minutes off the final
podium spot). Both were working for other guys in the pack, and neither
would have been allowed (nor capable) to get anywhere close to their
leaders.

It's the riders, not just the terrain, that makes a stage "the most
difficult" of the Tour.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
news:fjenlt$cj0$1@aioe.org...
> When you read the Spiegel article, it's important to keep in mind that Bob
> Stapleton was hired under the claim he was going to implement some kind of
> "state-of-the-art" anti-doping program at T-Mobile.
>
> Georgio Hincrapie, recently hired by High Road in 2007, was
> alleged to be a chronic doper by Lance Armstrong's personal agent at
> Oakley, Stephanie McIlvain, in a surreptiously recorded phone call by
> Greg LemonD (aka "The Tool"). This recording has been available for the
> past 3 years, but apparently Bob Stapleton has either never heard it or
> doesn't want to hear it. Either way, Staplehead is an ostrich with his
> head in the sand.
>
> The Spiegel article has a nice little section on page 2 that intimates
> Hincapie's hiring might have been the straw that broke the camel's back
> which resulted in Deutsche Telekom finally pulling the plug.
>
> --------
> from Spiegel:
>
> In keeping with this philosophy, Stapleton had no qualms about signing
> fellow American George Hincapie for the coming season. Hincapie, 34, was
> Lance Armstrong's trusted lieutenant during his series of Tour victories.
> In 2005, the tall American won the most difficult mountain stage of the
> Tour, even though he had never excelled as a mountain specialist before.
> For Telekom, Hincapie was just another image problem, a time bomb because
> he probably knows a great deal about Armstrong's miraculous trail of
> victories. But for Stapleton he was a solid rider with a clean record who
> was willing to conform to the team's anti-doping policies. Despite the
> company's attempts to convince him to change his mind, Stapleton insisted
> on hiring Hincapie.
>
> The rift between Stapleton and Telekom had become so wide that the
> separation had to be painstakingly negotiated. On Nov. 6, the company's
> board of directors decided to examine ways to get rid of Stapleton
> immediately. The simplest approach was not an option.
>
> --------
>
> Also, Rolf Aldag, current manager of High Road, confessed to being a
> chronic doper throughout his career as a rider. Yet Staplerhead keeps
> Alldouche on in the role of team manager simply because he "confessed."
> This is the equivalent of a police department hiring a pedophile to run
> its Special Victims Unit just because he confessed.
>
> The Germans must be some real deep throat cocksuckers for these very
> public crybaby press conference confessions as some kind of vestigial
> retroactive remorse for that little concentration camp thing they let
> happen back in WWII. In reality, a confession means little, especially if
> you don't give back any of the illegal proceeds you STOLE as a result of
> your cheating, which none of these "confessors" ever do (reference: any
> number of Matt "Kid Adrenaline" DeCanio rants).
>
> This is why Jeanson's confession is hollow.
>
> In the U.S. federal court system, confessing means nothing in sentencing
> guidelines. However, restitution does. If you steal money from a bank, a
> federal prosecutor doesn't give a donkey **** if you confessed to it or
> not - he only cares if you pay it back. That's because a confession
> without victim compensation is just another selfish act by the person
> making it to clear their own conscience without caring about redressing
> the victim(s) injuries/loss.
>
> After confessing to using EPO (and never returning a single penny of prize
> money or salary, of course), it was discovered Eric Zabel was in
> negotiations with Staplerhead for a contract in 2008. Stapleton said he
> would welcome not only Crybaby back but, get this, Sinka***** as well!
>
> Finally, the two doctors from the Freiberg Clinic who Staplerhead hired to
> oversee this state-of-the-art anti-doping program - Drs. Lothar Heinrich
> and Andreas Schmidt - as it turns out, were both Dr. Mengele's in
> disguise. They were EPO and blood transfusion traffickers - kingpins of
> the doping underworld in cycling who actually managed and administrated
> the doping program at T-Mobile for years!
>
> This is like hiring George Bush to be the Dean of your Foreign Affairs
> Department at a university and then wondering why you notice three new
> courses for the Fall Semester with the title: "Drop Bombs First, Ask
> Questions Later 101."
>
> Then, in retaliation for not wanting to give such a fraudulently managed
> team $20 million/year, Scissorhands hires private detectives to
> investigate Deutsche Telekom to dig up dirt on them so he can use that
> information to blackmail them into a higher severance payout!
>
> This guy just showed his hand. And all he had the entire time were
> JOKERS.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Magilla
>
> http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,522031-2,00.html

xzzy

01-03-1970, 09:41 PM

Facts matter,

Before there was a test for EPO, there was a de facto drug test that said
( summarizing ) If your hematocrit is above 50 then you are excused for
racing for 2 weeks.

Most Eurpoean racers hematocrit immediately dropped down to into the 48-49+
range.

My point is:
Hincapie and Armstrong have raced and have been drug tested.

There is a record of there drug tests and hematocrit.

If they were on EPO, then there would be a drop in hematocrit to stay
under the radar when the 50% rule took effect.

The information exists.

Those who have the information => MAKE IT AVAILABLE

Truth matters and now is a good time to lay speculation to rest. Put the
facts on the table,

John Bickmore
303-695-6467

"MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
news:fjenlt$cj0$1@aioe.org...
> When you read the Spiegel article, it's important to keep in mind that Bob
> Stapleton was hired under the claim he was going to implement some kind of
> "state-of-the-art" anti-doping program at T-Mobile.
>
> Georgio Hincrapie, recently hired by High Road in 2007, was
> alleged to be a chronic doper by Lance Armstrong's personal agent at
> Oakley, Stephanie McIlvain, in a surreptiously recorded phone call by
> Greg LemonD (aka "The Tool"). This recording has been available for the
> past 3 years, but apparently Bob Stapleton has either never heard it or
> doesn't want to hear it. Either way, Staplehead is an ostrich with his
> head in the sand.
>
> The Spiegel article has a nice little section on page 2 that intimates
> Hincapie's hiring might have been the straw that broke the camel's back
> which resulted in Deutsche Telekom finally pulling the plug.
>
> --------
> from Spiegel:
>
> In keeping with this philosophy, Stapleton had no qualms about signing
> fellow American George Hincapie for the coming season. Hincapie, 34, was
> Lance Armstrong's trusted lieutenant during his series of Tour victories.
> In 2005, the tall American won the most difficult mountain stage of the
> Tour, even though he had never excelled as a mountain specialist before.
> For Telekom, Hincapie was just another image problem, a time bomb because
> he probably knows a great deal about Armstrong's miraculous trail of
> victories. But for Stapleton he was a solid rider with a clean record who
> was willing to conform to the team's anti-doping policies. Despite the
> company's attempts to convince him to change his mind, Stapleton insisted
> on hiring Hincapie.
>
> The rift between Stapleton and Telekom had become so wide that the
> separation had to be painstakingly negotiated. On Nov. 6, the company's
> board of directors decided to examine ways to get rid of Stapleton
> immediately. The simplest approach was not an option.
>
> --------
>
> Also, Rolf Aldag, current manager of High Road, confessed to being a
> chronic doper throughout his career as a rider. Yet Staplerhead keeps
> Alldouche on in the role of team manager simply because he "confessed."
> This is the equivalent of a police department hiring a pedophile to run
> its Special Victims Unit just because he confessed.
>
> The Germans must be some real deep throat cocksuckers for these very
> public crybaby press conference confessions as some kind of vestigial
> retroactive remorse for that little concentration camp thing they let
> happen back in WWII. In reality, a confession means little, especially if
> you don't give back any of the illegal proceeds you STOLE as a result of
> your cheating, which none of these "confessors" ever do (reference: any
> number of Matt "Kid Adrenaline" DeCanio rants).
>
> This is why Jeanson's confession is hollow.
>
> In the U.S. federal court system, confessing means nothing in sentencing
> guidelines. However, restitution does. If you steal money from a bank, a
> federal prosecutor doesn't give a donkey **** if you confessed to it or
> not - he only cares if you pay it back. That's because a confession
> without victim compensation is just another selfish act by the person
> making it to clear their own conscience without caring about redressing
> the victim(s) injuries/loss.
>
> After confessing to using EPO (and never returning a single penny of prize
> money or salary, of course), it was discovered Eric Zabel was in
> negotiations with Staplerhead for a contract in 2008. Stapleton said he
> would welcome not only Crybaby back but, get this, Sinka***** as well!
>
> Finally, the two doctors from the Freiberg Clinic who Staplerhead hired to
> oversee this state-of-the-art anti-doping program - Drs. Lothar Heinrich
> and Andreas Schmidt - as it turns out, were both Dr. Mengele's in
> disguise. They were EPO and blood transfusion traffickers - kingpins of
> the doping underworld in cycling who actually managed and administrated
> the doping program at T-Mobile for years!
>
> This is like hiring George Bush to be the Dean of your Foreign Affairs
> Department at a university and then wondering why you notice three new
> courses for the Fall Semester with the title: "Drop Bombs First, Ask
> Questions Later 101."
>
> Then, in retaliation for not wanting to give such a fraudulently managed
> team $20 million/year, Scissorhands hires private detectives to
> investigate Deutsche Telekom to dig up dirt on them so he can use that
> information to blackmail them into a higher severance payout!
>
> This guy just showed his hand. And all he had the entire time were
> JOKERS.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Magilla
>
> http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,522031-2,00.html

amit.ghosh@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 09:41 PM

On Dec 8, 1:27 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> When you read the Spiegel article, it's important to keep in mind that
> Bob Stapleton was hired under the claim he was going to implement some
> kind of "state-of-the-art" anti-doping program at T-Mobile.
>

dumbass,

when i heard tmo's clean team included hontchar i wondered if
stapleton was hoplessly naive (unlikely for a guy who built a multi
million dollar business) or disingenuous, and that article showed it
was the latter.

i can give him the benefit of the doubt -- that he sincerely wanted to
run a clean team -- but if he had done due diligence he would've been
left with a list of four riders and he'd be running the same kind of
show as AG2R or Bouyges Telecom.

Except those are french teams, and a lousy (but clean) german team
would spend july on the couch with unibet.

sinkewitz as well as all the others poisoned the well. he could've
quietly disappeared for two years, instead every morning telekom
directors wake up and see their company being humiliated in the media
and they're thinking "we were paying this guy half a million euros a
year?".

slipstream thinks they're figured it out, because they say there will
be no pressure to perform, but this news comes too late for the
borderline guys who didn't make the 2008 squad, and will not be
getting a plane ticket to europe.

at least vaughters has the sense to not sabotage his team by holding
his own teary press conference - so i will gladly assume by hot sauce
he means jalepeno for those chipotle burritos.

Michael Press

01-03-1970, 09:41 PM

In article <fjenlt$cj0$1@aioe.org>,
MagillaGorilla <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:

> When you read the Spiegel article, it's important to keep in mind that
> Bob Stapleton was hired under the claim he was going to implement some
> kind of "state-of-the-art" anti-doping program at T-Mobile.
>
> Georgio Hincrapie, recently hired by High Road in 2007, was
> alleged to be a chronic doper by Lance Armstrong's personal agent at
> Oakley, Stephanie McIlvain, in a surreptiously recorded phone call by
> Greg LemonD (aka "The Tool"). This recording has been available for the
> past 3 years, but apparently Bob Stapleton has either never heard it or
> doesn't want to hear it. Either way, Staplehead is an ostrich with his
> head in the sand.
>
> The Spiegel article has a nice little section on page 2 that intimates
> Hincapie's hiring might have been the straw that broke the camel's back
> which resulted in Deutsche Telekom finally pulling the plug.
>
> --------
> from Spiegel:
>
> In keeping with this philosophy, Stapleton had no qualms about signing
> fellow American George Hincapie for the coming season. Hincapie, 34, was
> Lance Armstrong's trusted lieutenant during his series of Tour
> victories. In 2005, the tall American won the most difficult mountain
> stage of the Tour, even though he had never excelled as a mountain
> specialist before. For Telekom, Hincapie was just another image problem,
> a time bomb because he probably knows a great deal about Armstrong's
> miraculous trail of victories. But for Stapleton he was a solid rider
> with a clean record who was willing to conform to the team's anti-doping
> policies. Despite the company's attempts to convince him to change his
> mind, Stapleton insisted on hiring Hincapie.
>
> The rift between Stapleton and Telekom had become so wide that the
> separation had to be painstakingly negotiated. On Nov. 6, the company's
> board of directors decided to examine ways to get rid of Stapleton
> immediately. The simplest approach was not an option.
>
> --------
>
> Also, Rolf Aldag, current manager of High Road, confessed to being a
> chronic doper throughout his career as a rider. Yet Staplerhead keeps
> Alldouche on in the role of team manager simply because he "confessed."
> This is the equivalent of a police department hiring a pedophile to
> run its Special Victims Unit just because he confessed.
>
> The Germans must be some real deep throat cocksuckers for these very
> public crybaby press conference confessions as some kind of vestigial
> retroactive remorse for that little concentration camp thing they let
> happen back in WWII. In reality, a confession means little, especially
> if you don't give back any of the illegal proceeds you STOLE as a result
> of your cheating, which none of these "confessors" ever do (reference:
> any number of Matt "Kid Adrenaline" DeCanio rants).
>
> This is why Jeanson's confession is hollow.
>
> In the U.S. federal court system, confessing means nothing in sentencing
> guidelines. However, restitution does. If you steal money from a bank,
> a federal prosecutor doesn't give a donkey **** if you confessed to it
> or not - he only cares if you pay it back. That's because a confession
> without victim compensation is just another selfish act by the person
> making it to clear their own conscience without caring about redressing
> the victim(s) injuries/loss.
>
> After confessing to using EPO (and never returning a single penny of
> prize money or salary, of course), it was discovered Eric Zabel was in
> negotiations with Staplerhead for a contract in 2008. Stapleton said he
> would welcome not only Crybaby back but, get this, Sinka***** as well!
>
> Finally, the two doctors from the Freiberg Clinic who Staplerhead hired
> to oversee this state-of-the-art anti-doping program - Drs. Lothar
> Heinrich and Andreas Schmidt - as it turns out, were both Dr. Mengele's
> in disguise. They were EPO and blood transfusion traffickers - kingpins
> of the doping underworld in cycling who actually managed and
> administrated the doping program at T-Mobile for years!
>
> This is like hiring George Bush to be the Dean of your Foreign Affairs
> Department at a university and then wondering why you notice three new
> courses for the Fall Semester with the title: "Drop Bombs First, Ask
> Questions Later 101."
>
> Then, in retaliation for not wanting to give such a fraudulently managed
> team $20 million/year, Scissorhands hires private detectives to
> investigate Deutsche Telekom to dig up dirt on them so he can use that
> information to blackmail them into a higher severance payout!
>
> This guy just showed his hand. And all he had the entire time were JOKERS.

Whoever wrote this AI is to be congratulated.
One suggestion though: an actual person would
have had a brain aneurism by now.

--
Michael Press

chiefhiawatha@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 09:41 PM

LeMond comes out of that conversation looking really bad. Both of them
do. Laughing and talking about what George's baby is going to look
like.

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 09:41 PM

chiefhiawatha@gmail.com wrote:

> LeMond comes out of that conversation looking really bad. Both of them
> do. Laughing and talking about what George's baby is going to look
> like.

LemonD was using a little Boonesfarm small talk to get Stephanie to
"open up."

It worked.

Well, at least we now know why Hincapie's leg veins look like he got
them from an alien.

Magilla

Phil Holman

01-03-1970, 09:42 PM

"MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
news:fjf0ou$57d$1@aioe.org...
> chiefhiawatha@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> LeMond comes out of that conversation looking really bad. Both of
>> them
>> do. Laughing and talking about what George's baby is going to look
>> like.
>
>
> LemonD was using a little Boonesfarm small talk to get Stephanie to
> "open up."
>
> It worked.
>
> Well, at least we now know why Hincapie's leg veins look like he got
> them from an alien.
>
Why, are his parents aliens? It's statements like these that blur the
facts.

Phil H

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 09:43 PM

Yeah I knew Spiegel wasn't on the up-and-up with the details of that
stage, but it helped corroborate what Stephanie McIlvain said about
Hincapie's baby being born with flippers because of all the dope he did,
so I quoted it.

I figured most poeple in here were smart enough to know Hincapie won
that day in a trashcan break that was allowed to go up the road.

But just keep in mind that Spiegel's sloppiness does not negate what
McIlvain knows about Hincapie.

All those pros who are your heroes have less integrity than Rosie Ruiz.

Magilla

----------------

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

>>In 2005, the tall American won the most difficult mountain stage of the
>>Tour, even though he had never excelled as a mountain specialist before.
>
>
> Talk about taking something out of context. Perhaps we should look at what
> Periero thought about that stage-
> =================
> Said a rather pissed Pereiro at the finish line: "I asked him [Hincapie] to
> work, as we had to collaborate to battle it out in a sprint - but he didn't.
> Sometimes it's not the strongest that wins. I think I showed I was one the
> guys that wanted this stage the most. I thought there was victory in it for
> me, but that's life... I'll continue trying and one day I hope to be
> rewarded. Now, I'll continue to help Floyd [Landis] get on the podium."
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2005/tour05/?id=results/tour0515
> =================
> If you want to make a case for George performing unrealistically, you'd look
> at all those times he was pushing the tempo at the front for the first
> third, maybe more, of the major climbs. After having been working the race
> on the flats as well.
>
> But stage 15 of the '05 TdF was one of those nobody's working stages,
> allowing a break to get away almost by accident. Neither rider was in a
> position to make it to the podium at the finish; Hincapie ended up 14th, 23
> minutes down, and Perieor 10th at 16 minutes down (10 minutes off the final
> podium spot). Both were working for other guys in the pack, and neither
> would have been allowed (nor capable) to get anywhere close to their
> leaders.
>
> It's the riders, not just the terrain, that makes a stage "the most
> difficult" of the Tour.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
>
>
> "MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fjenlt$cj0$1@aioe.org...
>
>>When you read the Spiegel article, it's important to keep in mind that Bob
>>Stapleton was hired under the claim he was going to implement some kind of
>>"state-of-the-art" anti-doping program at T-Mobile.
>>
>>Georgio Hincrapie, recently hired by High Road in 2007, was
>>alleged to be a chronic doper by Lance Armstrong's personal agent at
>>Oakley, Stephanie McIlvain, in a surreptiously recorded phone call by
>>Greg LemonD (aka "The Tool"). This recording has been available for the
>>past 3 years, but apparently Bob Stapleton has either never heard it or
>>doesn't want to hear it. Either way, Staplehead is an ostrich with his
>>head in the sand.
>>
>>The Spiegel article has a nice little section on page 2 that intimates
>>Hincapie's hiring might have been the straw that broke the camel's back
>>which resulted in Deutsche Telekom finally pulling the plug.
>>
>>--------
>>from Spiegel:
>>
>>In keeping with this philosophy, Stapleton had no qualms about signing
>>fellow American George Hincapie for the coming season. Hincapie, 34, was
>>Lance Armstrong's trusted lieutenant during his series of Tour victories.
>>In 2005, the tall American won the most difficult mountain stage of the
>>Tour, even though he had never excelled as a mountain specialist before.
>>For Telekom, Hincapie was just another image problem, a time bomb because
>>he probably knows a great deal about Armstrong's miraculous trail of
>>victories. But for Stapleton he was a solid rider with a clean record who
>>was willing to conform to the team's anti-doping policies. Despite the
>>company's attempts to convince him to change his mind, Stapleton insisted
>>on hiring Hincapie.
>>
>>The rift between Stapleton and Telekom had become so wide that the
>>separation had to be painstakingly negotiated. On Nov. 6, the company's
>>board of directors decided to examine ways to get rid of Stapleton
>>immediately. The simplest approach was not an option.
>>
>>--------
>>
>>Also, Rolf Aldag, current manager of High Road, confessed to being a
>>chronic doper throughout his career as a rider. Yet Staplerhead keeps
>>Alldouche on in the role of team manager simply because he "confessed."
>>This is the equivalent of a police department hiring a pedophile to run
>>its Special Victims Unit just because he confessed.
>>
>>The Germans must be some real deep throat cocksuckers for these very
>>public crybaby press conference confessions as some kind of vestigial
>>retroactive remorse for that little concentration camp thing they let
>>happen back in WWII. In reality, a confession means little, especially if
>>you don't give back any of the illegal proceeds you STOLE as a result of
>>your cheating, which none of these "confessors" ever do (reference: any
>>number of Matt "Kid Adrenaline" DeCanio rants).
>>
>>This is why Jeanson's confession is hollow.
>>
>>In the U.S. federal court system, confessing means nothing in sentencing
>>guidelines. However, restitution does. If you steal money from a bank, a
>>federal prosecutor doesn't give a donkey **** if you confessed to it or
>>not - he only cares if you pay it back. That's because a confession
>>without victim compensation is just another selfish act by the person
>>making it to clear their own conscience without caring about redressing
>>the victim(s) injuries/loss.
>>
>>After confessing to using EPO (and never returning a single penny of prize
>>money or salary, of course), it was discovered Eric Zabel was in
>>negotiations with Staplerhead for a contract in 2008. Stapleton said he
>>would welcome not only Crybaby back but, get this, Sinka***** as well!
>>
>>Finally, the two doctors from the Freiberg Clinic who Staplerhead hired to
>>oversee this state-of-the-art anti-doping program - Drs. Lothar Heinrich
>>and Andreas Schmidt - as it turns out, were both Dr. Mengele's in
>>disguise. They were EPO and blood transfusion traffickers - kingpins of
>>the doping underworld in cycling who actually managed and administrated
>>the doping program at T-Mobile for years!
>>
>>This is like hiring George Bush to be the Dean of your Foreign Affairs
>>Department at a university and then wondering why you notice three new
>>courses for the Fall Semester with the title: "Drop Bombs First, Ask
>>Questions Later 101."
>>
>>Then, in retaliation for not wanting to give such a fraudulently managed
>>team $20 million/year, Scissorhands hires private detectives to
>>investigate Deutsche Telekom to dig up dirt on them so he can use that
>>information to blackmail them into a higher severance payout!
>>
>>This guy just showed his hand. And all he had the entire time were
>>JOKERS.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Magilla
>>
>>http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,522031-2,00.html
>
>
>

Morten Reippuert Knudsen

01-03-1970, 09:43 PM

Mike Jacoubowsky <MikeJ@chainreaction.com> wrote:
>> In 2005, the tall American won the most difficult mountain stage of the
>> Tour, even though he had never excelled as a mountain specialist before.
>
> Talk about taking something out of context. Perhaps we should look at what
> Periero thought about that stage-
> =================
> Said a rather pissed Pereiro at the finish line: "I asked him [Hincapie] to
> work, as we had to collaborate to battle it out in a sprint - but he didn't.
> Sometimes it's not the strongest that wins. I think I showed I was one the
> guys that wanted this stage the most. I thought there was victory in it for
> me, but that's life... I'll continue trying and one day I hope to be
> rewarded. Now, I'll continue to help Floyd [Landis] get on the podium."
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2005/tour05/?id=results/tour0515
> =================
> If you want to make a case for George performing unrealistically, you'd look
> at all those times he was pushing the tempo at the front for the first
> third, maybe more, of the major climbs. After having been working the race
> on the flats as well.

Rigth on the spot. Hincapie pushing te tempo uphill is an unatural
ability given his size. He shure didn't have it in 1999.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

Rex Crater

01-03-1970, 09:44 PM

Yeah Magilla.... RBR is just about facts!!!

"Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote in message
news:arWdnQjg0oJlzsbanZ2dnUVZ_v2pnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
> "MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fjf0ou$57d$1@aioe.org...
>> chiefhiawatha@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> LeMond comes out of that conversation looking really bad. Both of them
>>> do. Laughing and talking about what George's baby is going to look
>>> like.
>>
>>
>> LemonD was using a little Boonesfarm small talk to get Stephanie to "open
>> up."
>>
>> It worked.
>>
>> Well, at least we now know why Hincapie's leg veins look like he got them
>> from an alien.
>>
> Why, are his parents aliens? It's statements like these that blur the
> facts.
>
> Phil H
>

Rex Crater

01-03-1970, 09:44 PM

Hey check out the alien legs....

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2006/tour06/index.php?id=/photos/2006/tour06/tour061/IMG_0873

"Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote in message
news:arWdnQjg0oJlzsbanZ2dnUVZ_v2pnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
> "MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fjf0ou$57d$1@aioe.org...
>> chiefhiawatha@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> LeMond comes out of that conversation looking really bad. Both of them
>>> do. Laughing and talking about what George's baby is going to look
>>> like.
>>
>>
>> LemonD was using a little Boonesfarm small talk to get Stephanie to "open
>> up."
>>
>> It worked.
>>
>> Well, at least we now know why Hincapie's leg veins look like he got them
>> from an alien.
>>
> Why, are his parents aliens? It's statements like these that blur the
> facts.
>
> Phil H
>

John Forrest Tomlinson

01-03-1970, 09:44 PM

On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 18:33:23 -0800, "Phil Holman"
<piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:

>
>"MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
>news:fjf0ou$57d$1@aioe.org...
>> chiefhiawatha@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> LeMond comes out of that conversation looking really bad. Both of
>>> them
>>> do. Laughing and talking about what George's baby is going to look
>>> like.
>>
>>
>> LemonD was using a little Boonesfarm small talk to get Stephanie to
>> "open up."
>>
>> It worked.
>>
>> Well, at least we now know why Hincapie's leg veins look like he got
>> them from an alien.
>>
>Why, are his parents aliens? It's statements like these that blur the
>facts.

His father was, I think, but I'm pretty sure he's a US citizen now.

http://www.crca.net/news/200509.htm#12 (scroll down a bit on the
right)

Nice guy, as is George (though that doesn't mean hs is or isn't
doping).

JT

joseph.santaniello@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 09:44 PM

On Dec 9, 6:24 am, "Rex Crater" <rex-cra...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hey check out the alien legs....
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2006/tour06/index.php?id=/photos/20...

His are almost as bad as mine were up until my surgery 3 weeks ago.
They sure didn't signify anything helpful in my case.

And anyone who saw him win his stage knows it was a gimme. He got in a
break nobody cared about that built up a huge lead, and he didn't do
squat all day, so he was fresh. Nothing special there.

Joseph

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 09:44 PM

You make a great point and I think it was Vaughters who was quoted in
cyclingnews, that all the riders on Postal got their hematocrits
hovering around 49% prior to a certain race. I'm sure somebody can post
the link.

The thing that got me about that revelation was the person who made it
(I'm pretty sure it was Arygyle Boy but I might be wrong), didn't think
the public would interpet that as the definitive sign of orgranized team
doping it most certainly was.

In other words, it was an arrogant admission to chronic doping by the
entire team, but since their hematocrits were still technically legal,
the person making the statement was too caught up in the cavalier
attitude of doping to realize that there's only one way to explain how a
cycling team can synchronize and redline their hematocrits on cue.

By the way, does anyone know if Vaughters will also make his blood
profile public on the Slipstream website so we can see if the team
leader's own hematocrit is still at 52%, which is why he got a TUE for
it throughout his racing career and not because he was using EPO
chronically to keep it there, of course (and we know this HOW????).

Of course when one realizes that Vaughters had a TUE for a 52%
hematocrit prior to the development of the EPO test....it sure as hell
makes you wonder how any medical person could sign off on that. That
wonderment turns to confirmation when you see the IM's between him and
Franke Andreu published in the NY Times and USA Today where Vaughters
admits to using the "hot sauce."

So here's a guy who most likely got a career-long TUE for a 52%
hematocrit under the pretense of fraud. Then he tries to act like a
poster-boy victim of unfairness when a bee stings him because he wasn't
allowed to get a cortisone injection without being DQ'ed from the Tour.
Vaughters should have mentioned he took EPO during the bee sting press
conferences and seen what the press and public would have thought of his
little bee sting sob story then.

Now he's selling himself to the public and blue chip sponsors as the
leader of a transparent anti-doping team while hiding behind a career
enshrouded in doping.

Funny stuff.

Magilla

•••••••••••••••••

xzzy wrote:

> Facts matter,
>
> Before there was a test for EPO, there was a de facto drug test that said
> ( summarizing ) If your hematocrit is above 50 then you are excused for
> racing for 2 weeks.
>
> Most Eurpoean racers hematocrit immediately dropped down to into the 48-49+
> range.
>
> My point is:
> Hincapie and Armstrong have raced and have been drug tested.
>
> There is a record of there drug tests and hematocrit.
>
> If they were on EPO, then there would be a drop in hematocrit to stay
> under the radar when the 50% rule took effect.
>
> The information exists.
>
> Those who have the information => MAKE IT AVAILABLE
>
>
> Truth matters and now is a good time to lay speculation to rest. Put the
> facts on the table,
>
> John Bickmore
> 303-695-6467
>
>
>
> "MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fjenlt$cj0$1@aioe.org...
>
>>When you read the Spiegel article, it's important to keep in mind that Bob
>>Stapleton was hired under the claim he was going to implement some kind of
>>"state-of-the-art" anti-doping program at T-Mobile.
>>
>>Georgio Hincrapie, recently hired by High Road in 2007, was
>>alleged to be a chronic doper by Lance Armstrong's personal agent at
>>Oakley, Stephanie McIlvain, in a surreptiously recorded phone call by
>>Greg LemonD (aka "The Tool"). This recording has been available for the
>>past 3 years, but apparently Bob Stapleton has either never heard it or
>>doesn't want to hear it. Either way, Staplehead is an ostrich with his
>>head in the sand.
>>
>>The Spiegel article has a nice little section on page 2 that intimates
>>Hincapie's hiring might have been the straw that broke the camel's back
>>which resulted in Deutsche Telekom finally pulling the plug.
>>
>>--------
>>from Spiegel:
>>
>>In keeping with this philosophy, Stapleton had no qualms about signing
>>fellow American George Hincapie for the coming season. Hincapie, 34, was
>>Lance Armstrong's trusted lieutenant during his series of Tour victories.
>>In 2005, the tall American won the most difficult mountain stage of the
>>Tour, even though he had never excelled as a mountain specialist before.
>>For Telekom, Hincapie was just another image problem, a time bomb because
>>he probably knows a great deal about Armstrong's miraculous trail of
>>victories. But for Stapleton he was a solid rider with a clean record who
>>was willing to conform to the team's anti-doping policies. Despite the
>>company's attempts to convince him to change his mind, Stapleton insisted
>>on hiring Hincapie.
>>
>>The rift between Stapleton and Telekom had become so wide that the
>>separation had to be painstakingly negotiated. On Nov. 6, the company's
>>board of directors decided to examine ways to get rid of Stapleton
>>immediately. The simplest approach was not an option.
>>
>>--------
>>
>>Also, Rolf Aldag, current manager of High Road, confessed to being a
>>chronic doper throughout his career as a rider. Yet Staplerhead keeps
>>Alldouche on in the role of team manager simply because he "confessed."
>>This is the equivalent of a police department hiring a pedophile to run
>>its Special Victims Unit just because he confessed.
>>
>>The Germans must be some real deep throat cocksuckers for these very
>>public crybaby press conference confessions as some kind of vestigial
>>retroactive remorse for that little concentration camp thing they let
>>happen back in WWII. In reality, a confession means little, especially if
>>you don't give back any of the illegal proceeds you STOLE as a result of
>>your cheating, which none of these "confessors" ever do (reference: any
>>number of Matt "Kid Adrenaline" DeCanio rants).
>>
>>This is why Jeanson's confession is hollow.
>>
>>In the U.S. federal court system, confessing means nothing in sentencing
>>guidelines. However, restitution does. If you steal money from a bank, a
>>federal prosecutor doesn't give a donkey **** if you confessed to it or
>>not - he only cares if you pay it back. That's because a confession
>>without victim compensation is just another selfish act by the person
>>making it to clear their own conscience without caring about redressing
>>the victim(s) injuries/loss.
>>
>>After confessing to using EPO (and never returning a single penny of prize
>>money or salary, of course), it was discovered Eric Zabel was in
>>negotiations with Staplerhead for a contract in 2008. Stapleton said he
>>would welcome not only Crybaby back but, get this, Sinka***** as well!
>>
>>Finally, the two doctors from the Freiberg Clinic who Staplerhead hired to
>>oversee this state-of-the-art anti-doping program - Drs. Lothar Heinrich
>>and Andreas Schmidt - as it turns out, were both Dr. Mengele's in
>>disguise. They were EPO and blood transfusion traffickers - kingpins of
>>the doping underworld in cycling who actually managed and administrated
>>the doping program at T-Mobile for years!
>>
>>This is like hiring George Bush to be the Dean of your Foreign Affairs
>>Department at a university and then wondering why you notice three new
>>courses for the Fall Semester with the title: "Drop Bombs First, Ask
>>Questions Later 101."
>>
>>Then, in retaliation for not wanting to give such a fraudulently managed
>>team $20 million/year, Scissorhands hires private detectives to
>>investigate Deutsche Telekom to dig up dirt on them so he can use that
>>information to blackmail them into a higher severance payout!
>>
>>This guy just showed his hand. And all he had the entire time were
>>JOKERS.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Magilla
>>
>>http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,522031-2,00.html
>
>
>

amit.ghosh@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 09:44 PM

On Dec 9, 1:55 am, "xzzy" <mrbikej...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Facts matter,
>
> Before there was a test for EPO, there was a de facto drug test that said
> ( summarizing ) If your hematocrit is above 50 then you are excused for
> racing for 2 weeks.
>
> Most Eurpoean racers hematocrit immediately dropped down to into the 48-49+
> range.
>
> My point is:
> Hincapie and Armstrong have raced and have been drug tested.
>
> There is a record of there drug tests and hematocrit.
>
> If they were on EPO, then there would be a drop in hematocrit to stay
> under the radar when the 50% rule took effect.
>
> The information exists.
>
> Those who have the information => MAKE IT AVAILABLE
>

dumbass,

as kunich's reply illustrates there is no point.

the Us magazine crowd aren't willing to accept anything short of an
admission from the rider as proof of doping.

even a mountain of circumstantal evidence or even a positive test can
be dismissed as a campaign launched by nefarious parties.

for years after the festina affarr virenque claimed he was always
clean and that voet is a liar and for years jeanson claimed her
elevated hematocrit was from sleeping in an altitude tent and she was
going to show that her failed doping control was a false positive.

if you search the rbr archives you can read all the postings from the
dumbasses who argued supporting the plausibility of her defense. how
do they feel now ?

ilanpsi@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 09:44 PM

On Dec 9, 8:32 am, Morten Reippuert Knudsen <s...@reippuert.dk> wrote:
> Mike Jacoubowsky <Mi...@chainreaction.com> wrote:
> >> In 2005, the tall American won the most difficult mountain stage of the
> >> Tour, even though he had never excelled as a mountain specialist before.
>
> > Talk about taking something out of context. Perhaps we should look at what
> > Periero thought about that stage-
> > =================
> > Said a rather pissed Pereiro at the finish line: "I asked him [Hincapie] to
> > work, as we had to collaborate to battle it out in a sprint - but he didn't.
> > Sometimes it's not the strongest that wins. I think I showed I was one the
> > guys that wanted this stage the most. I thought there was victory in it for
> > me, but that's life... I'll continue trying and one day I hope to be
> > rewarded. Now, I'll continue to help Floyd [Landis] get on the podium."
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2005/tour05/?id=results/tour0515
> > =================
> > If you want to make a case for George performing unrealistically, you'd look
> > at all those times he was pushing the tempo at the front for the first
> > third, maybe more, of the major climbs. After having been working the race
> > on the flats as well.
>
> Rigth on the spot. Hincapie pushing te tempo uphill is an unatural
> ability given his size. He shure didn't have it in 1999.
>
> --
> Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>
>
> Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

It's not that Hincapie was riding hard at the front in hard mountain
stages, it was that he was dropping climbers like Simoni and that he
was not doing suicide pulls either. The "**** Pound Evidence"
regarding Hincapie is clear so he merits an investigation as to why
all his doping tests came negative. At the very least, all the
negative sample should be retested at the LNDD.

-ilan

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 09:44 PM

amit.ghosh@gmail.com wrote:

> On Dec 8, 1:27 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>>When you read the Spiegel article, it's important to keep in mind that
>>Bob Stapleton was hired under the claim he was going to implement some
>>kind of "state-of-the-art" anti-doping program at T-Mobile.
>>
>
>
> dumbass,
>
> when i heard tmo's clean team included hontchar i wondered if
> stapleton was hoplessly naive (unlikely for a guy who built a multi
> million dollar business) or disingenuous, and that article showed it
> was the latter.
>
> i can give him the benefit of the doubt -- that he sincerely wanted to
> run a clean team -- but if he had done due diligence he would've been
> left with a list of four riders and he'd be running the same kind of
> show as AG2R or Bouyges Telecom.
>
> Except those are french teams, and a lousy (but clean) german team
> would spend july on the couch with unibet.
>
> sinkewitz as well as all the others poisoned the well. he could've
> quietly disappeared for two years, instead every morning telekom
> directors wake up and see their company being humiliated in the media
> and they're thinking "we were paying this guy half a million euros a
> year?".
>
> slipstream thinks they're figured it out, because they say there will
> be no pressure to perform, but this news comes too late for the
> borderline guys who didn't make the 2008 squad, and will not be
> getting a plane ticket to europe.
>
> at least vaughters has the sense to not sabotage his team by holding
> his own teary press conference - so i will gladly assume by hot sauce
> he means jalepeno for those chipotle burritos.

---------

Vaughters has yet to post any of his riders' blood profiles online and
given the fact that he was likely a lifelong saucer who went so far as
to get a TUE under fraudulent pretense, I have little trust in him at
all. This sounds like a Stapleton-like ruse to lure unsuspecting blue
chip sponsors into a tarpit with some kind of disarming Drew Carey
Halloween FACE.

If mutton boy were serious about anti-doping, he wouldn't have hired a
guy like Millar (apparently also now a team owner??) who only confessed
after being caught and never made any restitition to those from whom he
stole money although he diid call his accusers "nutters" which
constitutes defamation and slander. You wouldn't allow a guy like that
on your team simply because of the PR factor alone regardless of whether
or not he's actually reformed.

Somebody told cyclists that iif you confess, we'll all get in a big
circle-jerk with you and ejaculate on each other. In this sense, the
gay Argyle kit makes sense.

Hiring Millar is like making a convicted child molester the director of
your youth sports program just because he CLAIMS he's reformed. You
just don't do that. YOU DON'T ****ING DO IT.

Staplehead did it with Aldag and look what happened?

I'll believe Vaughters' team is clean when Meatloaf himself posts his
own blood tests online for the past 30 years going back to childhood
that shows he had a a 52% hematocrit.

Given the fact that lambchops face got that TUE before the EPO test
existed, I impugn the integrity of the doctor who signed off on that,
including the rubber-stamping bozos at the UCI.

Magilla

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 09:44 PM

Tom Kunich

01-03-1970, 09:46 PM

"MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
news:fjh9jo$uc1$1@aioe.org...
> You make a great point and I think it was Vaughters who was quoted in
> cyclingnews, that all the riders on Postal got their hematocrits hovering
> around 49% prior to a certain race. I'm sure somebody can post the link.

Ain't it strange that my hematocrit is naturally 48%-49%? To read idiots
like you a person would think that no one ever naturally had 54% hematocrit
as has been recorded many many times.

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org

01-03-1970, 09:46 PM

On Dec 9, 10:45 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
> You make a great point and I think it was Vaughters who was quoted in
> cyclingnews, that all the riders on Postal got their hematocrits
> hovering around 49% prior to a certain race. I'm sure somebody can post
> the link.
>
> The thing that got me about that revelation was the person who made it
> (I'm pretty sure it was Arygyle Boy but I might be wrong), didn't think
> the public would interpet that as the definitive sign of orgranized team
> doping it most certainly was.
>
> In other words, it was an arrogant admission to chronic doping by the
> entire team, but since their hematocrits were still technically legal,
> the person making the statement was too caught up in the cavalier
> attitude of doping to realize that there's only one way to explain how a
> cycling team can synchronize and redline their hematocrits on cue.

Aper,

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/6ad504452fafe2b2
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/aug05/aug28news
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2005/vaughters_1999

I don't buy the excuse about the UCI's machine being
calibrated high, but obviously Vaughters felt it was
something he had to excuse, so your subsequent
conclusions about the cavalier attitude are unfounded.
You ***** at the guy for being a hypocrite and concealing
doping, and then you ***** at the guy because you feel he
wasn't shameful or aggressively concealing doping.
Who cares? Let argyles be argyles; anybody brave
enough to race in that kit should be allowed to race.

Ben

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 09:47 PM

Tom Kunich wrote:

> "MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fjh9jo$uc1$1@aioe.org...
>
>> You make a great point and I think it was Vaughters who was quoted in
>> cyclingnews, that all the riders on Postal got their hematocrits
>> hovering around 49% prior to a certain race. I'm sure somebody can
>> post the link.
>
>
> Ain't it strange that my hematocrit is naturally 48%-49%? To read idiots
> like you a person would think that no one ever naturally had 54%
> hematocrit as has been recorded many many times.
>

Stop filling out your credit card information for a fleshlight for one
moment and listen up.

Vaughters' 52% is 8.3% higher than 48 and is many standard deviations
ahead of the bell curve. So while you might think your numbers are
close to Lambchops, from a statistical standpoint, they are not.

Anorexic Drew Carey might be telling the truth, but I'd prefer to see
his blood profiles going back to kindergarten given that he used EPO and
given that 60% of Pro Tour cyclists seem to easily be able to obtain a
TUE for a fraudulent diagnosis of asthma just so they can hit the
bronchiodilators to open up their lungs for the sprint.

Also, Argyle frat boy wannabee lives at altitude with Jon Bonet's killer
which induces an abnormal hematocrit. This is really artificial
enhancement and most cyclists who MOVE to Boulder do so solely for this
artifical benefit and not because they like to live in a town where you
can use a garrote a 5 year old and never do any time. Why should WADA
give a TUE to a FAKER whose hematocrit is elevated through such
artificial means?

If anything, WADA should adopt rules to make it harder for people who
move to altitude to get TUE's for elevated hematocrits. You don't see
Amanda Beard claiming she lives in a ****ing bathtub just so she can get
a TUE exemption to wear a mermaid tail when she swims the 100 meter
freestyle.

Surely, you don't really believe that Pestachio and Perriero have
asthma, do you? Getting a TUE for cortisone and salbuterol is the legal
equivalent of John Gotti claiming to the IRS that his pizza place
actually does $12 million a year in business.

At least when Gotti tells that story to the FBI, they both share a laugh
over it. What bothers me is that cyclists and their pole-riding fans
like you don't laugh when they say it. It's like you actually believe
that the most aerobically gifted humans on the planet have a 2,000 times
greater incidence of asthma than your average nursing home patient with
COPD who smoked 3 packs a day since 1962.

Perhaps the only legitimate TUE I have ever heard of in pro cycling is
Landis using cortisone because his hip looked like the inside of a
cereal box.

97% of pro cyclists are Ferris Bueller when it comes to getting a
doctor's note.

I suggest you go to the ER and get all that Pro Tour semen you swallowed
pumped out of your stomach, Rod Stewart.

Magilla

01-03-1970, 09:47 PM

Holy ****... you didn't need to bury the retard.

> I suggest you go to the ER and get all that Pro Tour semen you swallowed
> pumped out of your stomach, Rod Stewart.
>
>
> Magilla

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 09:47 PM

amit.ghosh@gmail.com wrote:

> On Dec 9, 1:55 am, "xzzy" <mrbikej...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>Facts matter,
>>
>>Before there was a test for EPO, there was a de facto drug test that said
>>( summarizing ) If your hematocrit is above 50 then you are excused for
>>racing for 2 weeks.
>>
>>Most Eurpoean racers hematocrit immediately dropped down to into the 48-49+
>>range.
>>
>>My point is:
>> Hincapie and Armstrong have raced and have been drug tested.
>>
>> There is a record of there drug tests and hematocrit.
>>
>> If they were on EPO, then there would be a drop in hematocrit to stay
>>under the radar when the 50% rule took effect.
>>
>> The information exists.
>>
>> Those who have the information => MAKE IT AVAILABLE
>>
>
>
> dumbass,
>
> as kunich's reply illustrates there is no point.
>
> the Us magazine crowd aren't willing to accept anything short of an
> admission from the rider as proof of doping.
>
> even a mountain of circumstantal evidence or even a positive test can
> be dismissed as a campaign launched by nefarious parties.
>
> for years after the festina affarr virenque claimed he was always
> clean and that voet is a liar and for years jeanson claimed her
> elevated hematocrit was from sleeping in an altitude tent and she was
> going to show that her failed doping control was a false positive.
>
> if you search the rbr archives you can read all the postings from the
> dumbasses who argued supporting the plausibility of her defense. how
> do they feel now ?

Fraud is taking the All-Madden pro denial ruse to a new level when he
came out with "Postively Fraud" and his Fraud Funky Fund.

Now these dopes have actually connived the semen swallowing public into
paying their legal bills and buying their books.

If Floyd invited you people to a picnic in Jonestown, Guyana with lots
of free punch, most of you jagoffs in here would pack up your Power Tap
rigs and Allen Lim manuals and go.

70% of the people in here need to seriously consider whether they should
call 911 and ask an ambulance to take them to a hospital to have their
stomachs pumped of all the Pro Tour semen in it.

Magilla

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 09:48 PM

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 18:33:23 -0800, "Phil Holman"
> <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:
>
>
>>"MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:fjf0ou$57d$1@aioe.org...
>>
>>>chiefhiawatha@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>LeMond comes out of that conversation looking really bad. Both of
>>>>them
>>>>do. Laughing and talking about what George's baby is going to look
>>>>like.
>>>
>>>
>>>LemonD was using a little Boonesfarm small talk to get Stephanie to
>>>"open up."
>>>
>>>It worked.
>>>
>>>Well, at least we now know why Hincapie's leg veins look like he got
>>>them from an alien.
>>>
>>
>>Why, are his parents aliens? It's statements like these that blur the
>>facts.
>
>
> His father was, I think, but I'm pretty sure he's a US citizen now.
>
> http://www.crca.net/news/200509.htm#12 (scroll down a bit on the
> right)
>
>
> Nice guy, as is George (though that doesn't mean hs is or isn't
> doping).
>
> JT

If you ask Decanio, dopers are not "nice guys" by definition because
they take food off the plate of Danny Pate's kid. I will leave the
soldering connection job on that logic board to the rest of dumbasses.

But I will say this...everybody says O.J. was a nice guy in those Hertz
commercials and I heard he threw a hell of a barbeque at his crib in
Brentwood every year for prospective running back recruits for USC, his
alam mater.

I also once saw some vintage color film of Hitler on the History Channel
where he was smiling and petting a German shepherd at his castle. He
seemed nice in that clip.

(Although we now know Hitler was in fact an absolutely evil, evil man
because he ordered soldiers to kill at least three times as many people
as George Bush did.)

That is all,

Magilla

Phil Holman

01-03-1970, 09:48 PM

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetremove@jt10000.com> wrote in message
news:j17pl3ljh3uphnnj2srh9pmif7lst88l2k@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 18:33:23 -0800, "Phil Holman"
> <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:
>
>>
>>"MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:fjf0ou$57d$1@aioe.org...
>>> chiefhiawatha@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> LeMond comes out of that conversation looking really bad. Both of
>>>> them
>>>> do. Laughing and talking about what George's baby is going to look
>>>> like.
>>>
>>>
>>> LemonD was using a little Boonesfarm small talk to get Stephanie to
>>> "open up."
>>>
>>> It worked.
>>>
>>> Well, at least we now know why Hincapie's leg veins look like he got
>>> them from an alien.
>>>
>>Why, are his parents aliens? It's statements like these that blur the
>>facts.
>
> His father was, I think, but I'm pretty sure he's a US citizen now.
>
> http://www.crca.net/news/200509.htm#12 (scroll down a bit on the
> right)
>
>
> Nice guy, as is George (though that doesn't mean hs is or isn't
> doping).

Only in the US is a creature from another planet confused with a person
from another country.

Phil H

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 09:48 PM

ilanpsi@gmail.com wrote:

> On Dec 9, 8:32 am, Morten Reippuert Knudsen <s...@reippuert.dk> wrote:
>
>>Mike Jacoubowsky <Mi...@chainreaction.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>In 2005, the tall American won the most difficult mountain stage of the
>>>>Tour, even though he had never excelled as a mountain specialist before.
>>
>>>Talk about taking something out of context. Perhaps we should look at what
>>>Periero thought about that stage-
>>>=================
>>>Said a rather pissed Pereiro at the finish line: "I asked him [Hincapie] to
>>>work, as we had to collaborate to battle it out in a sprint - but he didn't.
>>>Sometimes it's not the strongest that wins. I think I showed I was one the
>>>guys that wanted this stage the most. I thought there was victory in it for
>>>me, but that's life... I'll continue trying and one day I hope to be
>>>rewarded. Now, I'll continue to help Floyd [Landis] get on the podium."
>>>http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2005/tour05/?id=results/tour0515
>>>=================
>>>If you want to make a case for George performing unrealistically, you'd look
>>>at all those times he was pushing the tempo at the front for the first
>>>third, maybe more, of the major climbs. After having been working the race
>>>on the flats as well.
>>
>>Rigth on the spot. Hincapie pushing te tempo uphill is an unatural
>>ability given his size. He shure didn't have it in 1999.
>>
>>--
>>Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>
>>
>>Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
>
>
> It's not that Hincapie was riding hard at the front in hard mountain
> stages, it was that he was dropping climbers like Simoni and that he
> was not doing suicide pulls either. The "**** Pound Evidence"
> regarding Hincapie is clear so he merits an investigation as to why
> all his doping tests came negative. At the very least, all the
> negative sample should be retested at the LNDD.
>
> -ilan

You know, come to think of it, Hincapie probably was on dope in that
stage like you suggest even if it was a trashcan break they let go up
the road. Without dope, Hincapie should be no better than Rich Hincapie
running into a barricade at the Tour of Nutley.

I'm sure JT knows the details.

Magilla

Donald Munro

01-03-1970, 09:49 PM

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> Let argyles be argyles; anybody brave enough to race in
> that kit should be allowed to race.

Lets hope High Road retain the flavour of pink. Argyle and
pink would look so tasteful on the back of the pack.

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 09:49 PM

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:

> On Dec 9, 10:45 am, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>>You make a great point and I think it was Vaughters who was quoted in
>>cyclingnews, that all the riders on Postal got their hematocrits
>>hovering around 49% prior to a certain race. I'm sure somebody can post
>>the link.
>>
>>The thing that got me about that revelation was the person who made it
>>(I'm pretty sure it was Arygyle Boy but I might be wrong), didn't think
>>the public would interpet that as the definitive sign of orgranized team
>>doping it most certainly was.
>>
>>In other words, it was an arrogant admission to chronic doping by the
>>entire team, but since their hematocrits were still technically legal,
>>the person making the statement was too caught up in the cavalier
>>attitude of doping to realize that there's only one way to explain how a
>>cycling team can synchronize and redline their hematocrits on cue.
>
>
>
> Aper,
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/6ad504452fafe2b2
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/aug05/aug28news
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2005/vaughters_1999
>
> I don't buy the excuse about the UCI's machine being
> calibrated high, but obviously Vaughters felt it was
> something he had to excuse, so your subsequent
> conclusions about the cavalier attitude are unfounded.
> You ***** at the guy for being a hypocrite and concealing
> doping, and then you ***** at the guy because you feel he
> wasn't shameful or aggressively concealing doping.
> Who cares? Let argyles be argyles; anybody brave
> enough to race in that kit should be allowed to race.
>
> Ben

--------

Benniffer,

First of all, I want to thank you for doing the homework I failed to do.

Having said that, if you check out this BEAUTIFUL quote from the
cyclingnews link you posted above, it shows that anorexic Drew Carey got
a BIGMOUTH and explains why Lance had to take out a contract on him:

------------------

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2005/vaughters_1999

"I'd never tested (at a race) above 50 percent, except before the start
of the '99 Tour," he said. "I told the team doctor 'don't worry, I've
got a certificate, I've got a hall-pass for this'," he recalled. "But
the doctor said it wasn't me they were worried about, it was that the
whole team was very close (to the 50 percent limit)."

------------------

Of course, the other minor question - and I'm sure it's nothing - that
comes to mind when I read this cute little quote from JV is...if
Vaughters "never tested above 50% in his entire life"...then how, pray
tell, DID THE MOTHER****ER GET A UCI EXEMPTION TO RACE WITH A 52%
HEMATOCRIT?

Riddle me that one, Clarence Darrow.

Magilla

Mike Jacoubowsky

01-03-1970, 09:51 PM

> You know, come to think of it, Hincapie probably was on dope in that stage
> like you suggest even if it was a trashcan break they let go up the road.
> Without dope, Hincapie should be no better than Rich Hincapie running into
> a barricade at the Tour of Nutley.
>
> I'm sure JT knows the details.
>
> Magilla

If Hincapie was doped on that stage, you really think he would have gone for
the win?

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
news:fjk469$qgl$1@aioe.org...
> ilanpsi@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Dec 9, 8:32 am, Morten Reippuert Knudsen <s...@reippuert.dk> wrote:
>>
>>>Mike Jacoubowsky <Mi...@chainreaction.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>In 2005, the tall American won the most difficult mountain stage of the
>>>>>Tour, even though he had never excelled as a mountain specialist
>>>>>before.
>>>
>>>>Talk about taking something out of context. Perhaps we should look at
>>>>what
>>>>Periero thought about that stage-
>>>>=================
>>>>Said a rather pissed Pereiro at the finish line: "I asked him [Hincapie]
>>>>to
>>>>work, as we had to collaborate to battle it out in a sprint - but he
>>>>didn't.
>>>>Sometimes it's not the strongest that wins. I think I showed I was one
>>>>the
>>>>guys that wanted this stage the most. I thought there was victory in it
>>>>for
>>>>me, but that's life... I'll continue trying and one day I hope to be
>>>>rewarded. Now, I'll continue to help Floyd [Landis] get on the podium."
>>>>http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2005/tour05/?id=results/tour0515
>>>>=================
>>>>If you want to make a case for George performing unrealistically, you'd
>>>>look
>>>>at all those times he was pushing the tempo at the front for the first
>>>>third, maybe more, of the major climbs. After having been working the
>>>>race
>>>>on the flats as well.
>>>
>>>Rigth on the spot. Hincapie pushing te tempo uphill is an unatural
>>>ability given his size. He shure didn't have it in 1999.
>>>
>>>--
>>>Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>
>>>
>>>Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
>>
>>
>> It's not that Hincapie was riding hard at the front in hard mountain
>> stages, it was that he was dropping climbers like Simoni and that he
>> was not doing suicide pulls either. The "**** Pound Evidence"
>> regarding Hincapie is clear so he merits an investigation as to why
>> all his doping tests came negative. At the very least, all the
>> negative sample should be retested at the LNDD.
>>
>> -ilan
>
>
> You know, come to think of it, Hincapie probably was on dope in that stage
> like you suggest even if it was a trashcan break they let go up the road.
> Without dope, Hincapie should be no better than Rich Hincapie running into
> a barricade at the Tour of Nutley.
>
> I'm sure JT knows the details.
>
> Magilla

Carl Sundquist

01-03-1970, 09:51 PM

"MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
news:fjk57e$t68$1@aioe.org...
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2005/vaughters_1999
>
> "I'd never tested (at a race) above 50 percent, except before the start of
> the '99 Tour," he said. "I told the team doctor 'don't worry, I've got a
> certificate, I've got a hall-pass for this'," he recalled. "But the doctor
> said it wasn't me they were worried about, it was that the whole team was
> very close (to the 50 percent limit)."
>
> ------------------
>
> Of course, the other minor question - and I'm sure it's nothing - that
> comes to mind when I read this cute little quote from JV is...if Vaughters
> "never tested above 50% in his entire life"...then how, pray tell, DID THE
> MOTHER****ER GET A UCI EXEMPTION TO RACE WITH A 52% HEMATOCRIT?
>
> Riddle me that one, Clarence Darrow.
>
> Magilla

Does "Never tested (at a race) above 50%" = "Never tested above 50% in his
entire life"?

Riddle me that one, Rainman.

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org

01-03-1970, 09:51 PM

On Dec 10, 12:49 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2005/vaughters_1999
>
> "I'd never tested (at a race) above 50 percent, except before the start
> of the '99 Tour," he said. "I told the team doctor 'don't worry, I've
> got a certificate, I've got a hall-pass for this'," he recalled. "But
> the doctor said it wasn't me they were worried about, it was that the
> whole team was very close (to the 50 percent limit)."
>
> ------------------
>
> Of course, the other minor question - and I'm sure it's nothing - that
> comes to mind when I read this cute little quote from JV is...if
> Vaughters "never tested above 50% in his entire life"...then how, pray
> tell, DID THE MOTHER****ER GET A UCI EXEMPTION TO RACE WITH A 52%
> HEMATOCRIT?
>
> Riddle me that one, Clarence Darrow.
>
> Magilla

The 50% limit is some number of standard deviations
above the normal range. There's fluctuations in both
a given person's HCT and the test accuracy. So if
a normal person has HCT of say 45% and should only
test above 50% 1 in 100 times, maybe our sideburned
friend has normal HCT of 48% and should only test above
52% 1 in 100 times, or something like that. Those
numbers are hypothetical, but the general point is
that the 50% limit, or whatever it is for Vaughters,
is deliberately a little conservative so that people
who get a two-week sitdown probably deserve it.

You can argue with the UCI's procedure or however
Sideburns demonstrated his high HCT, but it seems
likely he followed procedure to get the exemption;
the UCI likes procedure. It isn't prima facie
evidence of doping. Making comments about "hot sauce"
probably is, but by focusing on Vaughters, you
lose sight of the riders, coaches, team directors,
doctors and UCI who have contributed to making such
a cluster**** by doing business as usual.

Ben

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 09:52 PM

Carl Sundquist wrote:

>
> "MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fjk57e$t68$1@aioe.org...
>
>>
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2005/vaughters_1999
>>
>> "I'd never tested (at a race) above 50 percent, except before the
>> start of the '99 Tour," he said. "I told the team doctor 'don't worry,
>> I've got a certificate, I've got a hall-pass for this'," he recalled.
>> "But the doctor said it wasn't me they were worried about, it was that
>> the whole team was very close (to the 50 percent limit)."
>>
>> ------------------
>>
>> Of course, the other minor question - and I'm sure it's nothing -
>> that comes to mind when I read this cute little quote from JV is...if
>> Vaughters "never tested above 50% in his entire life"...then how, pray
>> tell, DID THE MOTHER****ER GET A UCI EXEMPTION TO RACE WITH A 52%
>> HEMATOCRIT?
>>
>> Riddle me that one, Clarence Darrow.
>>
>> Magilla
>
>
> Does "Never tested (at a race) above 50%" = "Never tested above 50% in
> his entire life"?
>
> Riddle me that one, Rainman.

That's the problem. They should be equal. Your hematocrit doesn't
change depending upon your race schedule.

Also, how frequently does a pro race? The answer, of course, is
virtually every week for 8 months out of the year. So Vaughters has
some explaining to do. Why does he get an exemption for 52 if,
according to him, he never goes above 50 for 8 months out of the year?

I bet you if Vaughters ever made public his hematocrits throughout his
racing career it would look like an EKG graph with peeks coinciding with
the week before the Tour de France.

And the reason he needed the 52% exemption is so he could pull out the
'hall pass' in the event the hall monitor asked him why he wasn't in
class for the big race in July.

Also, prior to the EPO test, no doctor should have ever signed off on a
hematocrit exemption for reasons that do not merit explanation.
Especially for a guy who says he never tested above 50 his entire race
career...a guy who admitted in IM's to Franke Andreu published in USA
Today that he dabbled in the hot sauce.

Magilla

Tom Kunich

01-03-1970, 09:58 PM

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote in message
news:UzG7j.77720$YL5.73489@newssvr29.news.prodigy. net...
>> You know, come to think of it, Hincapie probably was on dope in that
>> stage like you suggest even if it was a trashcan break they let go up the
>> road. Without dope, Hincapie should be no better than Rich Hincapie
>> running into a barricade at the Tour of Nutley.
>>
>> I'm sure JT knows the details.
>>
>> Magilla
>
> If Hincapie was doped on that stage, you really think he would have gone
> for the win?

Mike. please leave your logical thinking for your business dealings. Here
you're expected to be a moron.

amit.ghosh@gmail.com

01-03-1970, 09:58 PM

On Dec 11, 8:12 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:

>
> If Hincapie was doped on that stage, you really think he would have gone for
> the win?

dumbass,

hiding out in turkey wasn't enough for kashechkin to avoid getting
nailed.

the UCI is not so stupid to be that easily fooled if they want to test
a rider they can, they don't have to wait for him to win something.

William Asher

01-03-1970, 09:58 PM

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote in
news:UzG7j.77720$YL5.73489@newssvr29.news.prodigy. net:

>> You know, come to think of it, Hincapie probably was on dope in that
>> stage like you suggest even if it was a trashcan break they let go up
>> the road. Without dope, Hincapie should be no better than Rich
>> Hincapie running into a barricade at the Tour of Nutley.
>>
>> I'm sure JT knows the details.
>>
>> Magilla
>
> If Hincapie was doped on that stage, you really think he would have
> gone for the win?
>

If Hincapie was doped on that stage, he was on the same stuff as
Armstrong, who had been testing clean for what, at least 5 years at that
point. Clean or dirty, I doubt Hincapie was too concerned about a dope
test.

--
Bill Asher

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 09:58 PM

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>You know, come to think of it, Hincapie probably was on dope in that stage
>>like you suggest even if it was a trashcan break they let go up the road.
>>Without dope, Hincapie should be no better than Rich Hincapie running into
>>a barricade at the Tour of Nutley.
>>
>>I'm sure JT knows the details.
>>
>>Magilla
>
>
> If Hincapie was doped on that stage, you really think he would have gone for
> the win?
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>

You mean like Vino going for the win in the TT or Landis going for the
win in Morzine or Tylenol going for the win in Athens while pregnant
with twins?

Why dope if you're not going to go for the win, Einstein? These pros
are pros in micro-dosing and thinking they can defeat the tests.

So yeah. Is this a trick question or something?

Magilla

Morten Reippuert Knudsen

01-03-1970, 09:58 PM

Mike Jacoubowsky <MikeJ@chainreaction.com> wrote:
>> You know, come to think of it, Hincapie probably was on dope in that stage
>> like you suggest even if it was a trashcan break they let go up the road.
>> Without dope, Hincapie should be no better than Rich Hincapie running into
>> a barricade at the Tour of Nutley.
>>
>> I'm sure JT knows the details.
>>
>> Magilla
>
> If Hincapie was doped on that stage, you really think he would have gone for
> the win?

Why not? Basso, Hamilton, Perez, Herras, Ulrich, Jachkse, Landis,
Vinokurov, Millar and a lot of other riders hasn't had any problems
passing doping test while doped during the last 5 years. Why should
Hincapee be any different?

Do your really think passing an ordianry in-competition doping test
means that you are not doping?

Micro dosing of EPO, growthhormones, kortizone, bloddping with your
own blood can not be detected. If your clever you can increase the
dosage further when beeing out of competition.

Ulrich, Basso, Jachkse and Millar never tested positive and all of
them won races and passed tests while beeing juiced up.
Hamilton managed to win a lot before getting caucht with forrign blood
in his vains. From the Fuentes files we now know that durring 2003 he
used EPO, growthhormones and kortizone while winning races as LBL,
Tour de romandie and stages in TDF and the basqe country.

I'm only mentioning riders who has officially been caught. this is
2007 and only ignorants can assume that a negative doping test can
clear a rider from suspission.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

Carl Sundquist

01-03-1970, 10:01 PM

"William Asher" <gcnp58@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A03E6C3E47ACFkldeltaC@130.133.1.4...
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote in
> news:UzG7j.77720$YL5.73489@newssvr29.news.prodigy. net:
>
>>> You know, come to think of it, Hincapie probably was on dope in that
>>> stage like you suggest even if it was a trashcan break they let go up
>>> the road. Without dope, Hincapie should be no better than Rich
>>> Hincapie running into a barricade at the Tour of Nutley.
>>>
>>> I'm sure JT knows the details.
>>>
>>> Magilla
>>
>> If Hincapie was doped on that stage, you really think he would have
>> gone for the win?
>>
>
> If Hincapie was doped on that stage, he was on the same stuff as
> Armstrong, who had been testing clean for what, at least 5 years at that
> point. Clean or dirty, I doubt Hincapie was too concerned about a dope
> test.
>

Doubtful. I believe he had exclusive use of certain TT equipment. If he
wasn't willing to share that with teammates, why should he different for
other things?

William Asher

01-03-1970, 10:02 PM

Carl Sundquist wrote:

>
> "William Asher" <gcnp58@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9A03E6C3E47ACFkldeltaC@130.133.1.4...
>> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote in
>> news:UzG7j.77720$YL5.73489@newssvr29.news.prodigy. net:
>>
>>>> You know, come to think of it, Hincapie probably was on dope in that
>>>> stage like you suggest even if it was a trashcan break they let go up
>>>> the road. Without dope, Hincapie should be no better than Rich
>>>> Hincapie running into a barricade at the Tour of Nutley.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure JT knows the details.
>>>>
>>>> Magilla
>>>
>>> If Hincapie was doped on that stage, you really think he would have
>>> gone for the win?
>>>
>>
>> If Hincapie was doped on that stage, he was on the same stuff as
>> Armstrong, who had been testing clean for what, at least 5 years at that
>> point. Clean or dirty, I doubt Hincapie was too concerned about a dope
>> test.
>>
>
> Doubtful. I believe he had exclusive use of certain TT equipment. If he
> wasn't willing to share that with teammates, why should he different for
> other things?

Because he needed them to tow him to the bottom of the climbs and then
still have them be able to shred everyone else in the first 1/3 of the way
up. The TT was all about him, he didn't need his teammates.

--
Bill Asher

Mike Jacoubowsky

01-03-1970, 10:03 PM

>>>> If Hincapie was doped on that stage, you really think he would have
>>>> gone for the win?
>>>>
>>>
>>> If Hincapie was doped on that stage, he was on the same stuff as
>>> Armstrong, who had been testing clean for what, at least 5 years at that
>>> point. Clean or dirty, I doubt Hincapie was too concerned about a dope
>>> test.
>>>
>>
>> Doubtful. I believe he had exclusive use of certain TT equipment. If he
>> wasn't willing to share that with teammates, why should he different for
>> other things?
>
> Because he needed them to tow him to the bottom of the climbs and then
> still have them be able to shred everyone else in the first 1/3 of the way
> up. The TT was all about him, he didn't need his teammates.
>
> --
> Bill Asher

A case can be made that the domestiques are in more need of assistance than
the guys going for the win, who, by and large, are protected from having to
work any more than absolutely required. A case could also be made that you
minimize the risk of detection of your main guy, and one of the ways you'd
do that is to have him on a different program than the rest of the team.

Don't misunderstand me; I'm not trying to make a case that George wasn't
clean. Quite the opposite in fact. Allowing a non-protected rider to go for
the win is an indication that random circumstances (which would make it more
likely a doped domestique would get caught) are not something the team is
concerned about.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"William Asher" <gcnp58@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A0465D8ED588FkldeltaC@130.133.1.4...
> Carl Sundquist wrote:
>
>>
>> "William Asher" <gcnp58@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9A03E6C3E47ACFkldeltaC@130.133.1.4...
>>> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote in
>>> news:UzG7j.77720$YL5.73489@newssvr29.news.prodigy. net:
>>>
>>>>> You know, come to think of it, Hincapie probably was on dope in that
>>>>> stage like you suggest even if it was a trashcan break they let go up
>>>>> the road. Without dope, Hincapie should be no better than Rich
>>>>> Hincapie running into a barricade at the Tour of Nutley.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sure JT knows the details.
>>>>>
>>>>> Magilla
>>>>
>>>> If Hincapie was doped on that stage, you really think he would have
>>>> gone for the win?
>>>>
>>>
>>> If Hincapie was doped on that stage, he was on the same stuff as
>>> Armstrong, who had been testing clean for what, at least 5 years at that
>>> point. Clean or dirty, I doubt Hincapie was too concerned about a dope
>>> test.
>>>
>>
>> Doubtful. I believe he had exclusive use of certain TT equipment. If he
>> wasn't willing to share that with teammates, why should he different for
>> other things?
>
> Because he needed them to tow him to the bottom of the climbs and then
> still have them be able to shred everyone else in the first 1/3 of the way
> up. The TT was all about him, he didn't need his teammates.
>
> --
> Bill Asher

Mike Jacoubowsky

01-03-1970, 10:04 PM

>>>You know, come to think of it, Hincapie probably was on dope in that
>>>stage like you suggest even if it was a trashcan break they let go up the
>>>road. Without dope, Hincapie should be no better than Rich Hincapie
>>>running into a barricade at the Tour of Nutley.
>>>
>>>I'm sure JT knows the details.
>>>
>>>Magilla
>>
>>
>> If Hincapie was doped on that stage, you really think he would have gone
>> for the win?
>>
>> --Mike Jacoubowsky
>> Chain Reaction Bicycles
>> www.ChainReaction.com
>> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>>
>
>
> You mean like Vino going for the win in the TT or Landis going for the
> win in Morzine or Tylenol going for the win in Athens while pregnant
> with twins?
>
> Why dope if you're not going to go for the win, Einstein? These pros
> are pros in micro-dosing and thinking they can defeat the tests.
>
> So yeah. Is this a trick question or something?
>
> Magilla

No trick question. It's all about risk-management. Assuming someone *is*
prone to cheating, even the worst cheater will still weigh the risk vs
benefit of a given situation when determining whether and how much to cheat.
The stage in question was not one that anyone would logically look at and
say hey, George could win that one. If it were a stage likely to end in a
field sprint, sure. But it wasn't. No reasonable person would suggest it to
be a stage that George should target. Thus, if someone in George's position
at that time was prone to taking a risk and doping (to be better able to
help your leader that day or recover for the next), they would have likely
taken a greater risk than otherwise. Greater risk meaning either doping or
doping to a greater degree, increasing the chance of getting caught if
tested.

I assume you've read Paul Kimmage's "Rough Ride"? Probably the most
believable, and depressing, explanation of not only the process of doping,
but the rationale as well. An excellent place to start for anyone trying to
figure out who might be doping, when, and why.
http://www.amazon.com/Rough-Ride-Behind-Wheel-Cyclist/dp/0224061704

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
news:fjpmv2$om$2@aioe.org...
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>You know, come to think of it, Hincapie probably was on dope in that
>>>stage like you suggest even if it was a trashcan break they let go up the
>>>road. Without dope, Hincapie should be no better than Rich Hincapie
>>>running into a barricade at the Tour of Nutley.
>>>
>>>I'm sure JT knows the details.
>>>
>>>Magilla
>>
>>
>> If Hincapie was doped on that stage, you really think he would have gone
>> for the win?
>>
>> --Mike Jacoubowsky
>> Chain Reaction Bicycles
>> www.ChainReaction.com
>> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>>
>
>
> You mean like Vino going for the win in the TT or Landis going for the
> win in Morzine or Tylenol going for the win in Athens while pregnant
> with twins?
>
> Why dope if you're not going to go for the win, Einstein? These pros
> are pros in micro-dosing and thinking they can defeat the tests.
>
> So yeah. Is this a trick question or something?
>
> Magilla
>

Morten Reippuert Knudsen

01-03-1970, 10:04 PM

MagillaGorilla <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:

>> If Hincapie was doped on that stage, you really think he would have gone for
>> the win?
>
> You mean like Vino going for the win in the TT or Landis going for the
> win in Morzine or Tylenol going for the win in Athens while pregnant
> with twins?
>
> Why dope if you're not going to go for the win, Einstein? These pros
> are pros in micro-dosing and thinking they can defeat the tests.

Usually they can, but sometimes, although rarely, bad luck hits hits.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

MagillaGorilla

01-03-1970, 10:05 PM

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:

> On Dec 10, 12:49 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@sandiegozoo.com> wrote:
>
>>http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2005/vaughters_1999
>>
>>"I'd never tested (at a race) above 50 percent, except before the start
>>of the '99 Tour," he said. "I told the team doctor 'don't worry, I've
>>got a certificate, I've got a hall-pass for this'," he recalled. "But
>>the doctor said it wasn't me they were worried about, it was that the
>>whole team was very close (to the 50 percent limit)."
>>
>>------------------
>>
>>Of course, the other minor question - and I'm sure it's nothing - that
>>comes to mind when I read this cute little quote from JV is...if
>>Vaughters "never tested above 50% in his entire life"...then how, pray
>>tell, DID THE MOTHER****ER GET A UCI EXEMPTION TO RACE WITH A 52%
>>HEMATOCRIT?
>>
>>Riddle me that one, Clarence Darrow.
>>
>>Magilla
>
>
> The 50% limit is some number of standard deviations
> above the normal range. There's fluctuations in both
> a given person's HCT and the test accuracy. So if
> a normal person has HCT of say 45% and should only
> test above 50% 1 in 100 times, maybe our sideburned
> friend has normal HCT of 48% and should only test above
> 52% 1 in 100 times, or something like that. Those
> numbers are hypothetical, but the general point is
> that the 50% limit, or whatever it is for Vaughters,
> is deliberately a little conservative so that people
> who get a two-week sitdown probably deserve it.
>
> You can argue with the UCI's procedure or however
> Sideburns demonstrated his high HCT, but it seems
> likely he followed procedure to get the exemption;
> the UCI likes procedure. It isn't prima facie
> evidence of doping. Making comments about "hot sauce"
> probably is, but by focusing on Vaughters, you
> lose sight of the riders, coaches, team directors,
> doctors and UCI who have contributed to making such
> a cluster**** by doing business as usual.
>
> Ben

Riddle me this, Starsky...how did the doctor who rubber-stamped Hungry
Drew Carey's TUE know that when Sideburns submitted his baseline
hematocrit results for all these years, it wasn't artificially elevated
the whoile time from EPO given that they didn't have an EPO test?

Let me answer it for you because it's really a rhetorical, not to
mention insulting question. The doctor didn't ****ing know, didn't
****ing care, and would say anything Vaughters wanted. Because if he
didn't Vaughters would just go doctor shopping for one who would sign
off on it.

Most doctors who grant these TUE's are corrupt and part of the Omerta.

Bear in mind that the majority of pros used EPO and that Anorexic Drew
Carey admitted he used EPO. So it's not even a hypothetical scenario I'm
asking you to buy.

The TUE process in cycling is an ongoing ****ing comedy act. A TUE is a
vital tool to pros who want to cheat the system by claiming they
deserved a hall pass when in fact they had no reason to skip class to
begin with.

That's why 60% of pros have a TUE for asthma. You don't really think
that guys who can ride 28 mph for 5 hours have clinical breathing
problems, do you?

Look at halo head Nathan O'Neil trying to get a TUE for phen-phen when
in fact it was for performance-enhancing reasons and not because of a
medical condition of obesity (as would be required to qualify for a TUE
for that substance).

A TUE in pro cycling stands for "re-order my cortisone, salbuterol, and
lidocaine every TUEsday."

Magilla