glueing on tubulars [Archive]

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

01-03-1970, 10:00 PM

a shy person writes:

> thanks, already read them. I just want to see a video. how many
> coats of glue?

> I have read many different takes on this. one coat on rim and tyre,
> let dry for 1 hr or 24 hr??? half inflate 2 more coats to the rim
> and then mount tyre after the second coat while still wet. fully
> inflate and roll tyre manually, then inspect, fix and straighten,
> then let dry for 24 hrs before riding

> Is that right?
> Rim is new.

No it is not right. It depends on what sort of rim glue you use.
Your description seems to lie half way between shellac (track glue)
and road glue. Most road glues have highly volatile solvents, like
lacquer paints and dry quickly enough to be ridden less than an hour
after applying glue.

In fact, if the tire has a rubberized strip, it needs no glue at all
but it should be mounted and inflated hard as soon as the glue on the
rim is stable enough to mount a tire.

This isn't an exercise for people who have never had any glue
expedience, or for that matter been around riders who use tubulars.
The way you state that, you plan on giving a speech in a foreign
country with the aid of a handbook translation manual. This stuff
needs to come naturally or you're in for big disappointements... if
you stray from the equipment parade route.

Jobst Brandt

Tom Sherman

01-03-1970, 10:00 PM

vyaw2003@gmail.com wrote:
> thanks, already read them. I just want to see a video.
> how many coats of glue?
> I have read many different takes on this.
> one coat on rim and tyre, let dry for 1 hr or 24 hr???
> half inflate
> 2 more coats to the rim and then mount tyre after the second coat
> while still wet.
> fully inflate and roll tyre manually, then inspect, fix and
> straigthen,
> then let dry for 24 hrs before riding
>
> Is that right?
> Rim is new.

The first, and by far the most important, step in mounting a tubular
tire is sacrificing a virgin hen at the stroke of midnight during a full
moon.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

* * Chas

01-03-1970, 10:00 PM

<vyaw2003@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ff81bee5-2582-4c3d-ba7d-11ab1f81231b@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> thanks, already read them. I just want to see a video.
> how many coats of glue?
> I have read many different takes on this.
> one coat on rim and tyre, let dry for 1 hr or 24 hr???
> half inflate
> 2 more coats to the rim and then mount tyre after the second coat
> while still wet.
> fully inflate and roll tyre manually, then inspect, fix and
> straigthen,
> then let dry for 24 hrs before riding
>
> Is that right?
> Rim is new.

There is no magic to it. Here's pictorial instructions from the park Tool
web site:

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=101

Good luck and enjoy riding you sewups.

Chas.

Tom Nakashima

01-03-1970, 10:00 PM

<jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message
news:475f7173$0$36410$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>
> In fact, if the tire has a rubberized strip, it needs no glue at all
> but it should be mounted and inflated hard as soon as the glue on the
> rim is stable enough to mount a tire.
> Jobst Brandt

I've haven't been riding tubulars for quite a while.
Rubberized strips?
-tom

still just me

01-03-1970, 10:00 PM

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:34:18 -0600, Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>
>The first, and by far the most important, step in mounting a tubular
>tire is sacrificing a virgin hen at the stroke of midnight during a full
>moon.

Well, I sacrificed a couple of virgins at midnight but it was really
more of just removing their virginity than a human sacrifice.

To the OP: Don't let the naysayers get you down. Tubies are fun.

Ozark Bicycle

01-03-1970, 10:01 PM

On Dec 12, 2:15 am, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> <vyaw2...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ff81bee5-2582-4c3d-ba7d-11ab1f81231b@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > thanks, already read them. I just want to see a video.
> > how many coats of glue?
> > I have read many different takes on this.
> > one coat on rim and tyre, let dry for 1 hr or 24 hr???
> > half inflate
> > 2 more coats to the rim and then mount tyre after the second coat
> > while still wet.
> > fully inflate and roll tyre manually, then inspect, fix and
> > straigthen,
> > then let dry for 24 hrs before riding
>
> > Is that right?
> > Rim is new.
>
> There is no magic to it. Here's pictorial instructions from the park Tool
> web site:
>
> http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=101

A nice set of instructions and photos. But it fails to convey the mess
and misery that lies ahead for a "first timer".

>
> Good luck and enjoy riding you sewups.
>

And, if you do enjoy using sewups, let me introduce you to my friend
the NYC dominatrix. She's expensive and difficult, but worth it! ;-)

A Muzi

01-03-1970, 10:01 PM

>> <vyaw2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> thanks, already read them. I just want to see a video.
>>> how many coats of glue?
>>> I have read many different takes on this.
>>> one coat on rim and tyre, let dry for 1 hr or 24 hr???
>>> half inflate
>>> 2 more coats to the rim and then mount tyre after the second coat
>>> while still wet.
>>> fully inflate and roll tyre manually, then inspect, fix and
>>> straigthen,
>>> then let dry for 24 hrs before riding
>>> Is that right?
>>> Rim is new.

> "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
>> There is no magic to it. Here's pictorial instructions from the park Tool
>> web site:
>> http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=101

Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> A nice set of instructions and photos. But it fails to convey the mess
> and misery that lies ahead for a "first timer".

Why ever should mounting a tubular tire involve 'mess and misery'??
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Ozark Bicycle

01-03-1970, 10:02 PM

On Dec 12, 8:06 am, still just me <wheeledBobNOS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:34:18 -0600, Tom Sherman
>
> <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >The first, and by far the most important, step in mounting a tubular
> >tire is sacrificing a virgin hen at the stroke of midnight during a full
> >moon.
>
> Well, I sacrificed a couple of virgins at midnight but it was really
> more of just removing their virginity than a human sacrifice.
>
> To the OP: Don't let the naysayers get you down. Tubies are fun.

Using tubies doesn't meet the legal definition of torture, but it's
close. Sorta like waterboarding.

A Muzi

01-03-1970, 10:02 PM

> <jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org> wrote:
>> In fact, if the tire has a rubberized strip, it needs no glue at all
>> but it should be mounted and inflated hard as soon as the glue on the
>> rim is stable enough to mount a tire.

Tom Nakashima wrote:
> I've haven't been riding tubulars for quite a while.
> Rubberized strips?

Premium handmade tires were, at one time, latex coated all across the
base tape.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

01-03-1970, 10:02 PM

Tom Nakashima writes:

>> In fact, if the tire has a rubberized strip, it needs no glue at
>> all but it should be mounted and inflated hard as soon as the glue
>> on the rim is stable enough to mount a tire.

> I've haven't been riding tubulars for quite a while. Rubberized
> strips?

Road tires have their base tape coated with latex the same as the
sidewalls. Track tires do not and because some tubulars are intended
for both uses, the have a bare cloth basetape.

Just forget about tubulars, they have no purpose for the riding RBT
readers do. If they were world champs, they wouldn't ask for advice
here.

Jobst Brandt

still just me

01-03-1970, 10:02 PM

On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:14:00 -0800 (PST), Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:

>
>Using tubies doesn't meet the legal definition of torture, but it's
>close. Sorta like waterboarding.

Well, it is true that all the videos of Valerie Plame gluing on tubies
have been destroyed to protect her covert identity!

Ozark Bicycle

01-03-1970, 10:03 PM

On Dec 12, 12:00 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >> <vyaw2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> thanks, already read them. I just want to see a video.
> >>> how many coats of glue?
> >>> I have read many different takes on this.
> >>> one coat on rim and tyre, let dry for 1 hr or 24 hr???
> >>> half inflate
> >>> 2 more coats to the rim and then mount tyre after the second coat
> >>> while still wet.
> >>> fully inflate and roll tyre manually, then inspect, fix and
> >>> straigthen,
> >>> then let dry for 24 hrs before riding
> >>> Is that right?
> >>> Rim is new.
> > "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> >> There is no magic to it. Here's pictorial instructions from the park Tool
> >> web site:
> >>http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=101
> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > A nice set of instructions and photos. But it fails to convey the mess
> > and misery that lies ahead for a "first timer".
>
> Why ever should mounting a tubular tire involve 'mess and misery'??
> --

Not "should", but "does". When was the last time you talked to someone
who glued up a tubie for the first time? Stories of glue all over the
place and a lumpy tire seem to be standard.

* * Chas

01-03-1970, 10:03 PM

"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
news:13m0839i65fld23@corp.supernews.com...
> >> <vyaw2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> thanks, already read them. I just want to see a video.
> >>> how many coats of glue?
> >>> I have read many different takes on this.
> >>> one coat on rim and tyre, let dry for 1 hr or 24 hr???
> >>> half inflate
> >>> 2 more coats to the rim and then mount tyre after the second coat
> >>> while still wet.
> >>> fully inflate and roll tyre manually, then inspect, fix and
> >>> straigthen,
> >>> then let dry for 24 hrs before riding
> >>> Is that right?
> >>> Rim is new.
>
> > "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> >> There is no magic to it. Here's pictorial instructions from the park
Tool
> >> web site:
> >> http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=101
>
> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > A nice set of instructions and photos. But it fails to convey the mess
> > and misery that lies ahead for a "first timer".
>
> Why ever should mounting a tubular tire involve 'mess and misery'??
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Used to be able to change a front tire on the road in less than 2 minutes.
Rear tires took a little longer. Pastali was my favorite rim cement.
Stayed tacky for a long time.

Chas.

russellseaton1@yahoo.com

01-03-1970, 10:03 PM

On Dec 12, 12:37 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> On Dec 12, 12:00 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > >> <vyaw2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> thanks, already read them. I just want to see a video.
> > >>> how many coats of glue?
> > >>> I have read many different takes on this.
> > >>> one coat on rim and tyre, let dry for 1 hr or 24 hr???
> > >>> half inflate
> > >>> 2 more coats to the rim and then mount tyre after the second coat
> > >>> while still wet.
> > >>> fully inflate and roll tyre manually, then inspect, fix and
> > >>> straigthen,
> > >>> then let dry for 24 hrs before riding
> > >>> Is that right?
> > >>> Rim is new.
> > > "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> > >> There is no magic to it. Here's pictorial instructions from the park Tool
> > >> web site:
> > >>http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=101
> > Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > > A nice set of instructions and photos. But it fails to convey the mess
> > > and misery that lies ahead for a "first timer".
>
> > Why ever should mounting a tubular tire involve 'mess and misery'??
> > --
>
> Not "should", but "does". When was the last time you talked to someone
> who glued up a tubie for the first time? Stories of glue all over the
> place and a lumpy tire seem to be standard.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Gluing a tubular, new or used, onto a rim, brand new rim or previously
glued rim, does not have to involve any glue mess. It could if you
are incompetent in almost all of your lifelong endeavors. As Mr.
Brandt implies in a previous post, tubulars are not for the ignorant.
I always associate lumpy tubulars to the quality of the tire. But I
suppose an incompetent person could work at it long enough to make a
quality tubular lumpy.

Ozark Bicycle

01-03-1970, 10:03 PM

On Dec 12, 12:39 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> "A Muzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
>
> news:13m0839i65fld23@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
>
> > >> <vyaw2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> thanks, already read them. I just want to see a video.
> > >>> how many coats of glue?
> > >>> I have read many different takes on this.
> > >>> one coat on rim and tyre, let dry for 1 hr or 24 hr???
> > >>> half inflate
> > >>> 2 more coats to the rim and then mount tyre after the second coat
> > >>> while still wet.
> > >>> fully inflate and roll tyre manually, then inspect, fix and
> > >>> straigthen,
> > >>> then let dry for 24 hrs before riding
> > >>> Is that right?
> > >>> Rim is new.
>
> > > "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> > >> There is no magic to it. Here's pictorial instructions from the park
> Tool
> > >> web site:
> > >>http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=101
>
> > Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > > A nice set of instructions and photos. But it fails to convey the mess
> > > and misery that lies ahead for a "first timer".
>
> > Why ever should mounting a tubular tire involve 'mess and misery'??
> > --
>
> Used to be able to change a front tire on the road in less than 2 minutes.
> Rear tires took a little longer. Pastali was my favorite rim cement.
> Stayed tacky for a long time.
>
>

I was referring to gluing up a new tire on a rim (as did the Park
instructions), not changing tires on the road. And, IME, changing out
a clincher tube is still faster than swapping tubies "in the field".

David L. Johnson

01-03-1970, 10:03 PM

Ozark Bicycle wrote:

> I was referring to gluing up a new tire on a rim (as did the Park
> instructions), not changing tires on the road. And, IME, changing out
> a clincher tube is still faster than swapping tubies "in the field".
>
Unless the tubie has been glued on following the current nonsense
rituals (three layers of glue, allowing each to dry thoroughly
overnight, then apply fresh glue and mount tire under a full moon and
wait for the next full moon to ride it), you should be able to remove a
flat tubular within seconds, and slap on the spare just as fast.

Anyone fixing a flat clincher who does not check for sharp objects still
being in the tire will likely just have to fix it again, and the rest of
the process takes at least as long, arguably considerably longer, than
with a tubular.

That alone does not make it seem real smart to use tubulars, IMO.

--

David L. Johnson

Let's be straight here. If we find something we can't understand we
like to call it something you can't understand, or indeed even
pronounce.
-- Douglas Adams

A Muzi

01-03-1970, 10:03 PM

>>>>> <vyaw2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> thanks, already read them. I just want to see a video.
>>>>>> how many coats of glue?
>>>>>> I have read many different takes on this.
>>>>>> one coat on rim and tyre, let dry for 1 hr or 24 hr???
>>>>>> half inflate
>>>>>> 2 more coats to the rim and then mount tyre after the second coat
>>>>>> while still wet.
>>>>>> fully inflate and roll tyre manually, then inspect, fix and
>>>>>> straigthen,
>>>>>> then let dry for 24 hrs before riding
>>>>>> Is that right?
>>>>>> Rim is new.

>>>> "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
>>>>> There is no magic to it. Here's pictorial instructions from the park Tool
>>>>> web site:
>>>>> http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=101

>>> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>>>> A nice set of instructions and photos. But it fails to convey the mess
>>>> and misery that lies ahead for a "first timer".

>> A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> Why ever should mounting a tubular tire involve 'mess and misery'??

> Ozark Bicycle <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>> Not "should", but "does". When was the last time you talked to someone
>> who glued up a tubie for the first time? Stories of glue all over the
>> place and a lumpy tire seem to be standard.- Hide quoted text -

russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> Gluing a tubular, new or used, onto a rim, brand new rim or previously
> glued rim, does not have to involve any glue mess. It could if you
> are incompetent in almost all of your lifelong endeavors. As Mr.
> Brandt implies in a previous post, tubulars are not for the ignorant.
> I always associate lumpy tubulars to the quality of the tire. But I
> suppose an incompetent person could work at it long enough to make a
> quality tubular lumpy.

That's easy.
Start with excessive amounts of wet freshly applied cement. Leave the
valve section loose, struggle mightily with the last bit opposite the
valve. Leave screwdriver pry marks on the base tape. The valve area will
lift and bunch up in front of the valve if you ride immediately. Call
tubular vendor and whine about 'tire quality'.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Ozark Bicycle

01-03-1970, 10:04 PM

On Dec 12, 3:18 pm, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:

>
> Just forget about tubulars, they have no purpose for the riding RBT
> readers do.

Bingo!!!!

David L. Johnson

01-03-1970, 10:06 PM

still just me wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:14:00 -0800 (PST), Ozark Bicycle
> <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>
>> Using tubies doesn't meet the legal definition of torture, but it's
>> close. Sorta like waterboarding.
>
> Well, it is true that all the videos of Valerie Plame gluing on tubies
> have been destroyed to protect her covert identity!
>
Just watch American Flyers, and you can see Rae Dong Chong changing a
tubular -- OK, she doesn't glue it on, but it's close.

--

David L. Johnson

Let's be straight here. If we find something we can't understand we
like to call it something you can't understand, or indeed even
pronounce.
-- Douglas Adams

* * Chas

01-03-1970, 10:06 PM

"David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh.edu> wrote in message
news:vuudncdR7u0OWP3anZ2dnUVZ_rmjnZ2d@ptd.net...
> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
> > I was referring to gluing up a new tire on a rim (as did the Park
> > instructions), not changing tires on the road. And, IME, changing out
> > a clincher tube is still faster than swapping tubies "in the field".
> >
> Unless the tubie has been glued on following the current nonsense
> rituals (three layers of glue, allowing each to dry thoroughly
> overnight, then apply fresh glue and mount tire under a full moon and
> wait for the next full moon to ride it), you should be able to remove a
> flat tubular within seconds, and slap on the spare just as fast.
>
> Anyone fixing a flat clincher who does not check for sharp objects still
> being in the tire will likely just have to fix it again, and the rest of
> the process takes at least as long, arguably considerably longer, than
> with a tubular.
>
> That alone does not make it seem real smart to use tubulars, IMO.
>
> David L. Johnson

Riding tubulars is a sport - like telemark skiing - not for everyone. I
started riding tubulars again on several of my retro bikes last summer. I
really enjoy the ride of sewups. I rode tubulars most of the time during
the 1970s and early 1980s.

I had very few flats during those years eventhough my riding was in
goathead infested New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado and Texas. I attribute
this to running at 80 to 90 PSI tire pressure. People who rode at 90 to
100+ PSI seemed to have a lot more problems with flats. We also used
"sticker flickers" which helped prevent goathead flats.

The responders with positve attitudes towards tubulars in this thread are
not trying to convert people into using them but merely making suggestions
about how to glue them on which was what the OP asked about.

Several of the naysayers are coming across like some of the bent nazis
that post in this NG. If you don't like messing with tubulars no one is
forcing you to ride on them.

Chas.

Ozark Bicycle

01-03-1970, 10:06 PM

On Dec 12, 11:42 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
wrote:
> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > I was referring to gluing up a new tire on a rim (as did the Park
> > instructions), not changing tires on the road. And, IME, changing out
> > a clincher tube is still faster than swapping tubies "in the field".
>
> Unless the tubie has been glued on following the current nonsense
> rituals (three layers of glue, allowing each to dry thoroughly
> overnight, then apply fresh glue and mount tire under a full moon and
> wait for the next full moon to ride it), you should be able to remove a
> flat tubular within seconds, and slap on the spare just as fast.
>
> Anyone fixing a flat clincher who does not check for sharp objects still
> being in the tire will likely just have to fix it again, and the rest of
> the process takes at least as long, arguably considerably longer, than
> with a tubular.
>
> That alone does not make it seem real smart to use tubulars, IMO.
>
>

I suppose this varies from person to person. Personally, I can swap
out a clincher tube, checking inside the tire in the process, in less
time than I can change out a tubie.

Mike Krueger

01-03-1970, 10:06 PM

On Dec 13, 1:24 am, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:

> The responders with positve attitudes towards tubulars in this thread are
> not trying to convert people into using them but merely making suggestions
> about how to glue them on which was what the OP asked about.
>
> Several of the naysayers are coming across like some of the bent nazis
> that post in this NG. If you don't like messing with tubulars no one is
> forcing you to ride on them.
>
> Chas.

Well said.
My last 40,000 road miles have been ridden exclusively on tubulars. I
see no compelling reason to stop using them, as long as I can still
buy tires from the UK for a reasonable price. I have no trouble gluing
them on, and have never rolled a tire. I can change a flat tire on the
road in less than 2 minutes. My wheelbuilder charges me just $30 to
rebuild a wheel, including new spokes and nipples, and as replacement
NOS tubular rims cost next to nothing these days, my overall cost is
commensurate with modern clincher setups.
All you need to know about gluing tubulars can be found in this
download:
www.engr.ku.edu/~kuktl/bicycle/Cusa1.pdf

Ozark Bicycle

01-03-1970, 10:06 PM

On Dec 13, 12:24 am, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu> wrote in messagenews:vuudncdR7u0OWP3anZ2dnUVZ_rmjnZ2d@ptd.n et...
>
>
>
> > Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
> > > I was referring to gluing up a new tire on a rim (as did the Park
> > > instructions), not changing tires on the road. And, IME, changing out
> > > a clincher tube is still faster than swapping tubies "in the field".
>
> > Unless the tubie has been glued on following the current nonsense
> > rituals (three layers of glue, allowing each to dry thoroughly
> > overnight, then apply fresh glue and mount tire under a full moon and
> > wait for the next full moon to ride it), you should be able to remove a
> > flat tubular within seconds, and slap on the spare just as fast.
>
> > Anyone fixing a flat clincher who does not check for sharp objects still
> > being in the tire will likely just have to fix it again, and the rest of
> > the process takes at least as long, arguably considerably longer, than
> > with a tubular.
>
> > That alone does not make it seem real smart to use tubulars, IMO.
>
> > David L. Johnson
>
> Riding tubulars is a sport - like telemark skiing - not for everyone.

IOW, something one does just for the sake of doing it - rather than
for any particular advantage doing so imparts (?).

> I started riding tubulars again on several of my retro bikes last summer. I
> really enjoy the ride of sewups. I rode tubulars most of the time during
> the 1970s and early 1980s.
>
> I had very few flats during those years eventhough my riding was in
> goathead infested New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado and Texas. I attribute
> this to running at 80 to 90 PSI tire pressure. People who rode at 90 to
> 100+ PSI seemed to have a lot more problems with flats. We also used
> "sticker flickers" which helped prevent goathead flats.
>
> The responders with positve attitudes towards tubulars in this thread are
> not trying to convert people into using them but merely making suggestions
> about how to glue them on which was what the OP asked about.
>
> Several of the naysayers are coming across like some of the bent nazis
> that post in this NG. If you don't like messing with tubulars no one is
> forcing you to ride on them.
>

What's wrong with a little (reality based, IMO) counterpoint to the
"tubies are wonderful and easy to use" POV? Once a "tubie newbie" has
invested in a pair of tubie wheels and (a minimum of) three tubie
tires, it's a little late in the game to realize that life with tubies
is not a bed of roses (and we haven't even addressed the PIA reality
of actually repairing a punctured tubie, have we?) and that, in
today's reality, any "advantages" tubies offer to *recreational
riders* is mostly in one's mind/attitude.

Full disclosure: I rode tubies for many, many years. Once upon a time,
clinchers truly sucked. And, back in the same day, really lightweight,
yet useable and affordable, tubie rims (e.g., Mavic GEL280, GL330)
were widely available, making truly lightweight, high performance
wheels attainable to anyone who was interested in them. Today,
clinchers are pretty darned wonderful (and how much R&D do you think
tire companies have put into tubies in the past 20+ years?) and those
light, affordable tubie rims are a memory. Simply put, today, tubies
are a quaint anachronism, like shellaced cloth tape on handlebars,
playing vinyl LPs on a turntable or trying to use an Austin-Healey
3000 as a year-round, everyday driver. IMHO, YMMV, etc., etc., etc.

Tom Sherman

01-03-1970, 10:06 PM

* * Chas wrote:
> ...
> Several of the naysayers are coming across like some of the bent nazis
> that post in this NG....

Well, if upright riders with no experience would stop posing as
recumbent bicycle experts and posting misinformation...

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

Jay Beattie

01-03-1970, 10:06 PM

On Dec 12, 10:24 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu> wrote in messagenews:vuudncdR7u0OWP3anZ2dnUVZ_rmjnZ2d@ptd.n et...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
> > > I was referring to gluing up a new tire on a rim (as did the Park
> > > instructions), not changing tires on the road. And, IME, changing out
> > > a clincher tube is still faster than swapping tubies "in the field".
>
> > Unless the tubie has been glued on following the current nonsense
> > rituals (three layers of glue, allowing each to dry thoroughly
> > overnight, then apply fresh glue and mount tire under a full moon and
> > wait for the next full moon to ride it), you should be able to remove a
> > flat tubular within seconds, and slap on the spare just as fast.
>
> > Anyone fixing a flat clincher who does not check for sharp objects still
> > being in the tire will likely just have to fix it again, and the rest of
> > the process takes at least as long, arguably considerably longer, than
> > with a tubular.
>
> > That alone does not make it seem real smart to use tubulars, IMO.
>
> > David L. Johnson
>
> Riding tubulars is a sport - like telemark skiing - not for everyone.

That's a great line. Tele is a turn elevated in to a life style. And
nowadays, they are using skis that are bigger and heavier than my
alpine gear. At least they are not hucking all over the place like
the boarders.

Life is good -- riding with my buddies on Saturday, and skiing with my
son on Sunday. -- Jay Beattie.

* * Chas

01-03-1970, 10:07 PM

"Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in message
news:546dfbb8-1570-4a25-83a2-ec32a14e0f3c@b1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 12, 11:42 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
> wrote:
> > Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > > I was referring to gluing up a new tire on a rim (as did the Park
> > > instructions), not changing tires on the road. And, IME, changing
out
> > > a clincher tube is still faster than swapping tubies "in the field".
> >
> > Unless the tubie has been glued on following the current nonsense
> > rituals (three layers of glue, allowing each to dry thoroughly
> > overnight, then apply fresh glue and mount tire under a full moon and
> > wait for the next full moon to ride it), you should be able to remove
a
> > flat tubular within seconds, and slap on the spare just as fast.
> >
> > Anyone fixing a flat clincher who does not check for sharp objects
still
> > being in the tire will likely just have to fix it again, and the rest
of
> > the process takes at least as long, arguably considerably longer, than
> > with a tubular.
> >
> > That alone does not make it seem real smart to use tubulars, IMO.
> >
> >
>
> I suppose this varies from person to person. Personally, I can swap
> out a clincher tube, checking inside the tire in the process, in less
> time than I can change out a tubie.

Tubulars can be a pleasant anachronism like cross country skiing using
different kinds of ski wax.

Back in the day I rode sewups most of the time on my racing/touring bikes
and clinchers on my around town beater bikes. I had very few flats with
sewups. About a third of the bikes we sold went out the door with sewups
and we frequently sold our customers 2 sets of wheels - sewups and
clinchers.

I mounted hundreds of sewups a year over a 6 year period so I got really
fast at it. I can remember changing a front tire in less than a minute but
I didn't want to brag a get an ego battle going in this thread.

Last summer I sewups back on one of my French retro bikes. I'd been riding
700x28c Panaracer TG clinchers on it. The bike built with Super Vitus 980
steel tubing and weighs a tad over 19 Lbs. with sewups. I forgot how great
it rides with tubulars.

Chas.

russellseaton1@yahoo.com

01-03-1970, 10:07 PM

On Dec 13, 6:15 am, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> On Dec 13, 12:24 am, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu> wrote in messagenews:vuudncdR7u0OWP3anZ2dnUVZ_rmjnZ2d@ptd.n et...
>
> > > Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
> > > > I was referring to gluing up a new tire on a rim (as did the Park
> > > > instructions), not changing tires on the road. And, IME, changing out
> > > > a clincher tube is still faster than swapping tubies "in the field".
>
> > > Unless the tubie has been glued on following the current nonsense
> > > rituals (three layers of glue, allowing each to dry thoroughly
> > > overnight, then apply fresh glue and mount tire under a full moon and
> > > wait for the next full moon to ride it), you should be able to remove a
> > > flat tubular within seconds, and slap on the spare just as fast.
>
> > > Anyone fixing a flat clincher who does not check for sharp objects still
> > > being in the tire will likely just have to fix it again, and the rest of
> > > the process takes at least as long, arguably considerably longer, than
> > > with a tubular.
>
> > > That alone does not make it seem real smart to use tubulars, IMO.
>
> > > David L. Johnson
>
> > Riding tubulars is a sport - like telemark skiing - not for everyone.
>
> IOW, something one does just for the sake of doing it - rather than
> for any particular advantage doing so imparts (?).
>
>
>
>
>
> > I started riding tubulars again on several of my retro bikes last summer. I
> > really enjoy the ride of sewups. I rode tubulars most of the time during
> > the 1970s and early 1980s.
>
> > I had very few flats during those years eventhough my riding was in
> > goathead infested New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado and Texas. I attribute
> > this to running at 80 to 90 PSI tire pressure. People who rode at 90 to
> > 100+ PSI seemed to have a lot more problems with flats. We also used
> > "sticker flickers" which helped prevent goathead flats.
>
> > The responders with positve attitudes towards tubulars in this thread are
> > not trying to convert people into using them but merely making suggestions
> > about how to glue them on which was what the OP asked about.
>
> > Several of the naysayers are coming across like some of the bent nazis
> > that post in this NG. If you don't like messing with tubulars no one is
> > forcing you to ride on them.
>
> What's wrong with a little (reality based, IMO) counterpoint to the
> "tubies are wonderful and easy to use" POV?

I don't recall anyone in this thread saying tubulars are wanderful and
easy to use. People are just saying they are not nearly as difficult
or impossible or messy to use as many people claim. With not a lot of
effort or time, a competent person can install and repair them without
much more hassle than clinchers.

Once a "tubie newbie" has
> invested in a pair of tubie wheels and (a minimum of) three tubie
> tires, it's a little late in the game to realize that life with tubies
> is not a bed of roses

Not a bed of roses but not a bed of thorns compared to clinchers
either.

(and we haven't even addressed the PIA reality
> of actually repairing a punctured tubie, have we?) and that, in
> today's reality, any "advantages" tubies offer to *recreational
> riders* is mostly in one's mind/attitude.

I find repairing tubulars not too difficult. Takes more time than
patching a clincher tube and reinstalling it in the tire. But pulling
off 2" of basetape, cutting the thread and undoing 1" of thread and
then pulling a couple inches of tube out of the 1" hole, then patching
the tube, then restitching the casing, then gluing the basetape back
on, then remounting the tubular is not that difficult.

Recreational riders use equipment for many reasons. Tubulars may be
only a mental advantage. But then having a bike that weighs 100 grams
less than another. Or a bike that has all black parts as opposed to
silver may be mental too. As long as you understand tubulars are just
an alternative, not some panacea, then you won't be disappointed.
Just being different, not one of the Tom, ****, Harry, Me Too crowd is
worth something. You have tubulars, everyone else has clinchers.
You're special. Good enough reason to use them.

And in the interest of full disclosure, I have a set of tubulars.
Record hubs, Reflex rims, Sprinter tubulars. They worked well. Far
less flats than I get with clinchers. May have to go back to using
them for around town rides. I have not used them in about 6 years.
Everything else I have is clincher and its easier just to use the same
saddlebag with a couple spare tubes in it on every bike. Many road
bikes now. When I did get flats, I repaired the tubulars. Had three
patches on one tubular. No lumps, no difference from new.

>
> Full disclosure: I rode tubies for many, many years. Once upon a time,
> clinchers truly sucked. And, back in the same day, really lightweight,
> yet useable and affordable, tubie rims (e.g., Mavic GEL280, GL330)
> were widely available, making truly lightweight, high performance
> wheels attainable to anyone who was interested in them. Today,
> clinchers are pretty darned wonderful (and how much R&D do you think
> tire companies have put into tubies in the past 20+ years?) and those
> light, affordable tubie rims are a memory. Simply put, today, tubies
> are a quaint anachronism, like shellaced cloth tape on handlebars,
> playing vinyl LPs on a turntable or trying to use an Austin-Healey
> 3000 as a year-round, everyday driver. IMHO, YMMV, etc., etc., etc.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ozark Bicycle

01-03-1970, 10:08 PM

On Dec 13, 12:23 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> "Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in message
>
> news:546dfbb8-1570-4a25-83a2-ec32a14e0f3c@b1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Dec 12, 11:42 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
> > wrote:
> > > Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > > > I was referring to gluing up a new tire on a rim (as did the Park
> > > > instructions), not changing tires on the road. And, IME, changing
> out
> > > > a clincher tube is still faster than swapping tubies "in the field".
>
> > > Unless the tubie has been glued on following the current nonsense
> > > rituals (three layers of glue, allowing each to dry thoroughly
> > > overnight, then apply fresh glue and mount tire under a full moon and
> > > wait for the next full moon to ride it), you should be able to remove
> a
> > > flat tubular within seconds, and slap on the spare just as fast.
>
> > > Anyone fixing a flat clincher who does not check for sharp objects
> still
> > > being in the tire will likely just have to fix it again, and the rest
> of
> > > the process takes at least as long, arguably considerably longer, than
> > > with a tubular.
>
> > > That alone does not make it seem real smart to use tubulars, IMO.
>
> > I suppose this varies from person to person. Personally, I can swap
> > out a clincher tube, checking inside the tire in the process, in less
> > time than I can change out a tubie.
>
> Tubulars can be a pleasant anachronism like cross country skiing using
> different kinds of ski wax.

Hey, next thing ya know, you'll be using am Ultra 6 freewheel,
too! ;-)

>
> Back in the day I rode sewups most of the time on my racing/touring bikes
> and clinchers on my around town beater bikes. I had very few flats with
> sewups. About a third of the bikes we sold went out the door with sewups
> and we frequently sold our customers 2 sets of wheels - sewups and
> clinchers.
>
> I mounted hundreds of sewups a year over a 6 year period so I got really
> fast at it. I can remember changing a front tire in less than a minute but
> I didn't want to brag a get an ego battle going in this thread.

No ego involved in this matter from this quarter....but are you taking
into account unfolding the (slightly stuck to itself) pre-glued spare
tubie and folding up and stashing the dead tubie?

........and then there's the PIA of repairing the damned dead tubie at
a later date. Surely no one will contest that patching a clincher tube
is considerably less pain??

>
> Last summer I sewups back on one of my French retro bikes. I'd been riding
> 700x28c Panaracer TG clinchers on it. The bike built with Super Vitus 980
> steel tubing and weighs a tad over 19 Lbs. with sewups. I forgot how great
> it rides with tubulars.
>

Well, I never liked the ride quality of Kevlar belted tires ('tho they
do have other virtues), Panaracer Pasela TGs included. A comparison to
a regular Panacacer Pasela., a Panaracer Stradius _____, or other good
clincher would be a more valid comparison. IMO.

BTW, what size is the Vitus 980 frame?

dustoyevsky@mac.com

01-03-1970, 10:08 PM

On Dec 13, 12:23 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
(David Johnson, I believe):
> > > Unless the tubie has been glued on following the current nonsense
> > > rituals (three layers of glue, allowing each to dry thoroughly
> > > overnight, then apply fresh glue and mount tire under a full moon and
> > > wait for the next full moon to ride it), you should be able to remove
> a
> > > flat tubular within seconds, and slap on the spare just as fast.

NOT the way I want my tubular tires stuck on.

This is another "YMMV" thing. I used mine for racing and Sunday rides
on dirt/gravel roads. My cohort used Clement Red and strove to get
bonds that required a tool of some sort to start a flat off the rim.
That way, when you popped a tire riding in the rough stuff, the tire
would more likely stay on the rim and the rim would more likely
continue to turn in the frame or fork. Flats (rapid loss of air,
called "popping one") were common. Carrying three or four spare
tubulars was common. Having a flat tubular come off the rim wasn't.

(Ozark?):
> > I suppose this varies from person to person. Personally, I can swap
> > out a clincher tube, checking inside the tire in the process, in less
> > time than I can change out a tubie.

I had a "race" with another experienced tire changer once, well back
into the previous century, after we both hit approximately the same
hidden object or hole in a low water crossing; my clincher (not
popular back then, but cheap!) against his tubular. Dead heat. On to
other subjects <g>. Yes, he had "trouble" (not) getting his tire off,
as usual <g>.

> I mounted hundreds of sewups a year over a 6 year period so I got really
> fast at it. I can remember changing a front tire in less than a minute but
> I didn't want to brag a get an ego battle going in this thread.
>
> Last summer I sewups back on one of my French retro bikes. I'd been riding
> 700x28c Panaracer TG clinchers on it. The bike built with Super Vitus 980
> steel tubing and weighs a tad over 19 Lbs. with sewups. I forgot how great
> it rides with tubulars.

I glued and rode some cheap tubies a summer ago, which would Venn with
the lightest, narrow clinchers I've had that I could ride without
pinching often. Better tubies are better.

The OP asked about gluing. Simple question, at least two real answers
were presented in 30-odd posts which isn't too bad for this ng, I
guess.

Problems? It's OK to mention problems, the worst of which is melting
glue and tire creep causing blowouts in extreme cases of heating rims
by brake friction while descending (or dragging brakes!). That's the
real "uh uh" IRT tubies. Of course, you can effectively do the same
thing by putting 160+ lbs of air in your front clincher tire and going
for glory that way.

(Let me put it this way): If I could still get CG's for $25.99 +
shipping via MO, which is about where I can scrounge decent clincher
and tube, the Sunday rides (at least) would be on sewups. But, being
cheap (always, see above), and not being able to find CG's or
acceptable (open to suggestions!!!) substitutes at that price level, I
ride clinchers. And as the French say, tant pis! --D-y

* * Chas

01-03-1970, 10:10 PM

<dustoyevsky@mac.com> wrote in message
news:ea1bb6d9-c02d-47c3-a3e1-2d0a313dc022@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 13, 12:23 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> (David Johnson, I believe):
> > > > Unless the tubie has been glued on following the current nonsense
> > > > rituals (three layers of glue, allowing each to dry thoroughly
> > > > overnight, then apply fresh glue and mount tire under a full moon
and
> > > > wait for the next full moon to ride it), you should be able to
remove
> > a
> > > > flat tubular within seconds, and slap on the spare just as fast.
>
> NOT the way I want my tubular tires stuck on.
>
> This is another "YMMV" thing. I used mine for racing and Sunday rides
> on dirt/gravel roads. My cohort used Clement Red and strove to get
> bonds that required a tool of some sort to start a flat off the rim.
> That way, when you popped a tire riding in the rough stuff, the tire
> would more likely stay on the rim and the rim would more likely
> continue to turn in the frame or fork. Flats (rapid loss of air,
> called "popping one") were common. Carrying three or four spare
> tubulars was common. Having a flat tubular come off the rim wasn't.
>
> (Ozark?):
> > > I suppose this varies from person to person. Personally, I can swap
> > > out a clincher tube, checking inside the tire in the process, in
less
> > > time than I can change out a tubie.
>
> I had a "race" with another experienced tire changer once, well back
> into the previous century, after we both hit approximately the same
> hidden object or hole in a low water crossing; my clincher (not
> popular back then, but cheap!) against his tubular. Dead heat. On to
> other subjects <g>. Yes, he had "trouble" (not) getting his tire off,
> as usual <g>.
>
> > I mounted hundreds of sewups a year over a 6 year period so I got
really
> > fast at it. I can remember changing a front tire in less than a minute
but
> > I didn't want to brag a get an ego battle going in this thread.
> >
> > Last summer I sewups back on one of my French retro bikes. I'd been
riding
> > 700x28c Panaracer TG clinchers on it. The bike built with Super Vitus
980
> > steel tubing and weighs a tad over 19 Lbs. with sewups. I forgot how
great
> > it rides with tubulars.
>
> I glued and rode some cheap tubies a summer ago, which would Venn with
> the lightest, narrow clinchers I've had that I could ride without
> pinching often. Better tubies are better.
>
> The OP asked about gluing. Simple question, at least two real answers
> were presented in 30-odd posts which isn't too bad for this ng, I
> guess.
>
> Problems? It's OK to mention problems, the worst of which is melting
> glue and tire creep causing blowouts in extreme cases of heating rims
> by brake friction while descending (or dragging brakes!). That's the
> real "uh uh" IRT tubies. Of course, you can effectively do the same
> thing by putting 160+ lbs of air in your front clincher tire and going
> for glory that way.
>
> (Let me put it this way): If I could still get CG's for $25.99 +
> shipping via MO, which is about where I can scrounge decent clincher
> and tube, the Sunday rides (at least) would be on sewups. But, being
> cheap (always, see above), and not being able to find CG's or
> acceptable (open to suggestions!!!) substitutes at that price level, I
> ride clinchers. And as the French say, tant pis! --D-y
>

When I started cross country skiing we used skinny wooden 170-180cm skis
that had to be constantly rewaxed - then there was klister! By the early
80s really good waxless skis with composite construction were readily
available.

I did a lot of back country skiing so I learned to telemark ski with metal
edged 215 to 225 cm boards. We started riding the lifts. There were only
one or two places that allowed us to telemark ski on their slopes. There
is nothing like making a fast telemark turn through waist deep fresh
powder snow....

Would I ever go back to waxing skis? No way!

In the same vein I can appreciate people who have switched from sewups to
modern clinchers. I only ride my sewups on good roads in areas that are
fairly goathead free.

I rode offroad with cyclocross sewups for a number of years. I had 2 flats
with those tires and they were from rock pinches. I've only seen 2 people
roll a sewup tire and they were both during the same race in the decent
from 10,600 feet. Both riders were using Clement red cement - we called it
rude-a-gud-a.

There were only 3 kinds of rim cement commonly available at that time:
Tubasti, Pastalli and Clement plus there was double sided rim tape that
was a mess to install and didn't hold all that well. Pastalli was my
favorite rim cement. It stayed sticky for a long time

Before I knew better I would just put a layer of Pastalli on a clean rim,
let it set for 10-15 minutes and pre-stretch the tire so it went on easy.
I have some wheels with sewups that I glued on that way 25+ years ago. The
Pastalli is still strong and not dried out. It's a bear to get these old
tires off when I want to put on new tires to use these wheels.

As far as ease of installation, I have several clincher rim/tire
combinations that are difficult to get on and off. I've used talc and I
still occasionally pinch a tube trying to get the tire back on the rim.

Chas.

still just me

01-03-1970, 10:10 PM

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:26:27 -0600, Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>
>Well, if upright riders with no experience would stop posing as
>recumbent bicycle experts and posting misinformation...

You got tubies on that cumby?

Tom Sherman

01-03-1970, 10:11 PM

still just me wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:26:27 -0600, Tom Sherman
> <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Well, if upright riders with no experience would stop posing as
>> recumbent bicycle experts and posting misinformation...
>
> You got tubies on that cumby?
>
Where can I find an ISO 305-mm tubular tire and rim?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

dustoyevsky@mac.com

01-03-1970, 10:11 PM

On Dec 13, 11:24 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:

> I rode offroad with cyclocross sewups for a number of years. I had 2 flats
> with those tires and they were from rock pinches. I've only seen 2 people
> roll a sewup tire and they were both during the same race in the decent
> from 10,600 feet. Both riders were using Clement red cement - we called it
> rude-a-gud-a.
>
> There were only 3 kinds of rim cement commonly available at that time:
> Tubasti, Pastalli and Clement plus there was double sided rim tape that
> was a mess to install and didn't hold all that well. Pastalli was my
> favorite rim cement. It stayed sticky for a long time

We used Pastali to pre-glue spares so they'd stick to the Red on the
rim. Not the preferred glue for local (hot) roads. I just followed the
locals on that one. Spares in a thick white sock, two in the Jandd
bag

<http://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FTBII>

and one or two strapped onto the bag with a spare toe strap. And a
real tire pump, Silca Impero that you didn't need a clip for, or Zefal
HP, that you did.

> Before I knew better I would just put a layer of Pastalli on a clean rim,
> let it set for 10-15 minutes and pre-stretch the tire so it went on easy.
> I have some wheels with sewups that I glued on that way 25+ years ago. The
> Pastalli is still strong and not dried out. It's a bear to get these old
> tires off when I want to put on new tires to use these wheels.

Sounds good to me <g>. One bear and a metal tire iron was the way we
used to do it. Or a key. Or a rock.

> As far as ease of installation, I have several clincher rim/tire
> combinations that are difficult to get on and off. I've used talc and I
> still occasionally pinch a tube trying to get the tire back on the rim.

Shades of the "nylon" Japanese tubies of old... Almost big enough to
fit on the rim! --D-y

A Muzi

01-03-1970, 10:11 PM

>>Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Well, if upright riders with no experience would stop posing as
>>> recumbent bicycle experts and posting misinformation...

> still just me wrote:
>> You got tubies on that cumby?

Tom Sherman wrote:
> Where can I find an ISO 305-mm tubular tire and rim?

Moulton used to offer a Scheeren Weltemister 28h x 17" with matching
Vittoria 22mm tires. I sold our very last set to Paul van Valkenburg but
a diligent search might find a pair. Weltmeisters are scary-light!

Wheelchair sports use 20" and also 18" 18mm Panaracer tubulars which
are current.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Tom Sherman

01-03-1970, 10:11 PM

Jay Beattie wrote:
> On Dec 12, 10:24 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
>>
>
>> Riding tubulars is a sport - like telemark skiing - not for everyone.
>
> That's a great line. Tele is a turn elevated in to a life style. And
> nowadays, they are using skis that are bigger and heavier than my
> alpine gear. At least they are not hucking all over the place like
> the boarders.
>
> Life is good -- riding with my buddies on Saturday, and skiing with my
> son on Sunday. -- Jay Beattie.

Bah. Sheldon is right [1]. It is not a real human powered sport if you
do not get up the hill under your own power:
<http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_da-o.html#downhill>.

[1] A redundant statement? [2]
[2] Insert snarky retort from OB.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

Jay Beattie

01-03-1970, 10:11 PM

On Dec 13, 9:33 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
wrote:
> Jay Beattie wrote:
> > On Dec 12, 10:24 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
>
> >> Riding tubulars is a sport - like telemark skiing - not for everyone.
>
> > That's a great line. Tele is a turn elevated in to a life style. And
> > nowadays, they are using skis that are bigger and heavier than my
> > alpine gear. At least they are not hucking all over the place like
> > the boarders.
>
> > Life is good -- riding with my buddies on Saturday, and skiing with my
> > son on Sunday. -- Jay Beattie.
>
> Bah. Sheldon is right [1]. It is not a real human powered sport if you
> do not get up the hill under your own power:
> <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_da-o.html#downhill>.
>
> [1] A redundant statement? [2]
> [2] Insert snarky retort from OB.

I'll tell you though, I was practically crippled after skiing two
weeks ago in deep powder (rarity in the Cascades). My quads have
never, ever hurt that bad after cycling -- no matter how epic the
ride.-- Jay Beattie.

Tom Sherman

01-03-1970, 10:14 PM

Andrew Muzi wrote:
>>> Tom Sherman <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Well, if upright riders with no experience would stop posing as
>>>> recumbent bicycle experts and posting misinformation...
>
>> still just me wrote:
>>> You got tubies on that cumby?
>
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Where can I find an ISO 305-mm tubular tire and rim?
>
> Moulton used to offer a Scheeren Weltemister 28h x 17" with matching
> Vittoria 22mm tires. I sold our very last set to Paul van Valkenburg but
> a diligent search might find a pair. Weltmeisters are scary-light!
>
> Wheelchair sports use 20" and also 18" 18mm Panaracer tubulars which
> are current.

The racing wheelchair tires I have seen are too fragile to use on a
bicycle (unless one was only riding on a velodrome).

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

* * Chas

01-03-1970, 10:16 PM

"Jay Beattie" <jbeattie@lindsayhart.com> wrote in message
news:dbee9996-0fb3-41b1-b402-90017069d1c3@d27g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 13, 9:33 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > Jay Beattie wrote:
> > > On Dec 12, 10:24 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> Riding tubulars is a sport - like telemark skiing - not for
everyone.
> >
> > > That's a great line. Tele is a turn elevated in to a life style. And
> > > nowadays, they are using skis that are bigger and heavier than my
> > > alpine gear. At least they are not hucking all over the place like
> > > the boarders.
> >
> > > Life is good -- riding with my buddies on Saturday, and skiing with
my
> > > son on Sunday. -- Jay Beattie.
> >
> > Bah. Sheldon is right [1]. It is not a real human powered sport if you
> > do not get up the hill under your own power:
> > <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_da-o.html#downhill>.
> >
> > [1] A redundant statement? [2]
> > [2] Insert snarky retort from OB.
>
> I'll tell you though, I was practically crippled after skiing two
> weeks ago in deep powder (rarity in the Cascades). My quads have
> never, ever hurt that bad after cycling -- no matter how epic the
> ride.-- Jay Beattie.

You're just used to that Sierra Cement or Cascade Cement in your case.
;-)

Chas.

Pikachu

01-03-1970, 10:16 PM

In article
<dbee9996-0fb3-41b1-b402-90017069d1c3@d27g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Jay Beattie <jbeattie@lindsayhart.com> wrote:

> On Dec 13, 9:33 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > Bah. Sheldon is right [1]. It is not a real human powered sport if you
> > do not get up the hill under your own power:
> > <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_da-o.html#downhill>.
> >
> > [1] A redundant statement? [2]
> > [2] Insert snarky retort from OB.
>
> I'll tell you though, I was practically crippled after skiing two
> weeks ago in deep powder (rarity in the Cascades). My quads have
> never, ever hurt that bad after cycling -- no matter how epic the
> ride.-- Jay Beattie.

My whole body hurt after helping a friend move the other day; he had a
lot of stuff! Nevertheless, I wouldn't exactly insinuate that house
moving is a sport either. :)

Pikachu

Tom Sherman

01-03-1970, 10:16 PM

* * Chas wrote:
> "Jay Beattie" <jbeattie@lindsayhart.com> wrote in message
> news:dbee9996-0fb3-41b1-b402-90017069d1c3@d27g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> On Dec 13, 9:33 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Jay Beattie wrote:
>>>> On Dec 12, 10:24 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
>>>>> Riding tubulars is a sport - like telemark skiing - not for
> everyone.
>>>> That's a great line. Tele is a turn elevated in to a life style. And
>>>> nowadays, they are using skis that are bigger and heavier than my
>>>> alpine gear. At least they are not hucking all over the place like
>>>> the boarders.
>>>> Life is good -- riding with my buddies on Saturday, and skiing with
> my
>>>> son on Sunday. -- Jay Beattie.
>>> Bah. Sheldon is right [1]. It is not a real human powered sport if you
>>> do not get up the hill under your own power:
>>> <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_da-o.html#downhill>.
>>>
>>> [1] A redundant statement? [2]
>>> [2] Insert snarky retort from OB.
>> I'll tell you though, I was practically crippled after skiing two
>> weeks ago in deep powder (rarity in the Cascades). My quads have
>> never, ever hurt that bad after cycling -- no matter how epic the
>> ride.-- Jay Beattie.
>
> You're just used to that Sierra Cement or Cascade Cement in your case.

Can these cements be used to glue on sew-up tires?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

* * Chas

01-03-1970, 10:17 PM

"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fjvdvi$f3q$2@registered.motzarella.org...
> * * Chas wrote:
> > "Jay Beattie" <jbeattie@lindsayhart.com> wrote in message
> >
news:dbee9996-0fb3-41b1-b402-90017069d1c3@d27g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Dec 13, 9:33 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>> Jay Beattie wrote:
> >>>> On Dec 12, 10:24 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com>
wrote:
> >>>>> Riding tubulars is a sport - like telemark skiing - not for
> > everyone.
> >>>> That's a great line. Tele is a turn elevated in to a life style.
And
> >>>> nowadays, they are using skis that are bigger and heavier than my
> >>>> alpine gear. At least they are not hucking all over the place like
> >>>> the boarders.
> >>>> Life is good -- riding with my buddies on Saturday, and skiing with
> > my
> >>>> son on Sunday. -- Jay Beattie.
> >>> Bah. Sheldon is right [1]. It is not a real human powered sport if
you
> >>> do not get up the hill under your own power:
> >>> <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_da-o.html#downhill>.
> >>>
> >>> [1] A redundant statement? [2]
> >>> [2] Insert snarky retort from OB.
> >> I'll tell you though, I was practically crippled after skiing two
> >> weeks ago in deep powder (rarity in the Cascades). My quads have
> >> never, ever hurt that bad after cycling -- no matter how epic the
> >> ride.-- Jay Beattie.
> >
> > You're just used to that Sierra Cement or Cascade Cement in your case.
>
> Can these cements be used to glue on sew-up tires?
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia

If you only ride below freezing temperature...

Chas.