Need a High Quality Rear Rack Trunk Bag - Crappy Zippers Need Not Apply!

[Jay]

I have been using Topeak trunk bags with the QuickTrack system for my
Chicago commute for a couple years, all conditions, year round. The bags are
OK, except for the cheap zippers. With daily use, the zippers crap out after
6 months or so. I am getting tired of replacing the bag because the stupid
cheap zippers have become a daily annoyance. Is anyone making a higher
quality trunk bag for rear racks, that will hold up year round?

I no longer need the QuickTrack feature, because I remove the entire seat
mast from my folder, and use the bike rack on the front of the city bus for
that leg of my commute. This also obviously keeps the weather off my Brooks
saddle. http://www.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/bike/seat_mast.jpg

As an aside, it seems like the vast majority of bike stuff is optimized for
lightweight, and cheap purchase price. One really needs to look for quality
durable bike things. I guess this is because bikes, for most people, are a
nice weather hobby, not a year round utility.

(end of rant)

http://www.topeak.com/2007/products/bags/mtxtrunkbagex.php

Thanks for any info - J.

[landotter]

On Dec 15, 12:42 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been using Topeak trunk bags with the QuickTrack system for my
> Chicago commute for a couple years, all conditions, year round. The bags are
> OK, except for the cheap zippers. With daily use, the zippers crap out after
> 6 months or so. I am getting tired of replacing the bag because the stupid
> cheap zippers have become a daily annoyance.

Why are you replacing the bag? Just have a pro put on some heavy duty
YKK zippers and be done with it. I had the zippers on a m/c jacket
replaced by that leather shop on Belmont by the elevated train stop a
few years ago.

[SMS 斯蒂文• 夏]

Jay wrote:
> I have been using Topeak trunk bags with the QuickTrack system for my
> Chicago commute for a couple years, all conditions, year round. The bags are
> OK, except for the cheap zippers. With daily use, the zippers crap out after
> 6 months or so. I am getting tired of replacing the bag because the stupid
> cheap zippers have become a daily annoyance. Is anyone making a higher
> quality trunk bag for rear racks, that will hold up year round?

I you're not using the QuickTrack, and want to attach directly to the
rack, then the only good trunk bag is the LonePeak (see
"http://www.lickbike.com/productpage.aspx?PART_NUM_SUB='3648-01'").

The issue with most of the trunk bags is that they use Velcro to attach
to the rack, and the Velcro goes bad fairly quickly. Only the LonePeak
uses buckles.

[Tim McNamara]

In article <SuOdnXXAU_hrgvnanZ2dnUVZ_sCtnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Jay" <jbollyn@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have been using Topeak trunk bags with the QuickTrack system for my
> Chicago commute for a couple years, all conditions, year round. The
> bags are OK, except for the cheap zippers. With daily use, the
> zippers crap out after 6 months or so. I am getting tired of
> replacing the bag because the stupid cheap zippers have become a
> daily annoyance. Is anyone making a higher quality trunk bag for rear
> racks, that will hold up year round?

Perhaps:

http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/bags_and_racks#product=20-126

http://www.wallbike.com/berthoud/rackbag.html

http://www.ortliebusa.com/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=141&cid=2

http://www.ortliebusa.com/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=37&cid=2

[Pete Biggs]

Jay wrote:
> I have been using Topeak trunk bags with the QuickTrack system for my
> Chicago commute for a couple years, all conditions, year round. The
> bags are OK, except for the cheap zippers. With daily use, the
> zippers crap out after 6 months or so. I am getting tired of
> replacing the bag because the stupid cheap zippers have become a
> daily annoyance. Is anyone making a higher quality trunk bag for rear
> racks, that will hold up year round?

www.carradice.co.uk/rack-packs/index.html

~PB

[datakoll]

DON'T BE A ****

make one http://www.seattlefabrics.com/nylons.html#fc1

or be what you are and go over to Homedepot. In TOOL AREA, on the rear
wall are construction bags ready for your rack IF you bolt a painted
piece of 1/2 ply, almost precut over in lumber onto your rack with DIY
straps, over in fastners in Aluminum or Ferrous something.
No saw? hunt down someone in lumber who (this is extremely important
at HD)looks intelligent, ask him to cut your piece to size.
let the ply hang over the nikrre's rear wheel to accept a 2' long bag
AND AND AND let the bike stand up on the ply tail and against a wall
for maintenance.
ply tail also good for rear light mounting.

My own solution to this has been to put a quick-release pannier mounting
(from REI's spare parts department) onto one of my smaller Halliburton
aluminum camera cases. Rugged, waterproof, easy to carry, cost me about
$20 for the parts.

--
josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html>

[Jay]

"landotter" <landotter@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2b56b790-3dd9-472b-8db4-cbc6a704ec4a@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 15, 12:42 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I have been using Topeak trunk bags with the QuickTrack system for my
>> Chicago commute for a couple years, all conditions, year round. The bags
>> are
>> OK, except for the cheap zippers. With daily use, the zippers crap out
>> after
>> 6 months or so. I am getting tired of replacing the bag because the
>> stupid
>> cheap zippers have become a daily annoyance.
>
> Why are you replacing the bag? Just have a pro put on some heavy duty
> YKK zippers and be done with it. I had the zippers on a m/c jacket
> replaced by that leather shop on Belmont by the elevated train stop a
> few years ago.
>
>
Hey LO:

I have been replacing the bag, because I don't know any better.

I am further NW than the Belmont / Blue Line intersection. My El leg is only
from Rosemont to Jeff Park, a very short train ride. But I could certainly
get to Belmont. Do you have an address, business name, link, etc. for the
leather shop? Also, I have no idea what a YKK zipper is. I know...there is
no need to pound my chest - I am in fact breathing.

Thanks - and I apologize for previously calling you deranged - here is the
pot calling the kettle black - J.

[Jay]

"landotter" <landotter@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2b56b790-3dd9-472b-8db4-cbc6a704ec4a@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 15, 12:42 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I have been using Topeak trunk bags with the QuickTrack system for my
>> Chicago commute for a couple years, all conditions, year round. The bags
>> are
>> OK, except for the cheap zippers. With daily use, the zippers crap out
>> after
>> 6 months or so. I am getting tired of replacing the bag because the
>> stupid
>> cheap zippers have become a daily annoyance.
>
> Why are you replacing the bag? Just have a pro put on some heavy duty
> YKK zippers and be done with it. I had the zippers on a m/c jacket
> replaced by that leather shop on Belmont by the elevated train stop a
> few years ago.
>
>
>
Quoting from the Arkel website:

Water proof zippers
All the zippers are top-of-the-line waterproof YKK's. The overall design is
also very sleek and water shedding. Of course there's an integrated rain
cover, but even as it is the Tail Rider will easily shed rain for a few
hours. No more panicking necessary.

Link:

http://www.arkel-od.com/panniers/tailrider/features.asp?fl=1&site=

J.

[landotter]

On Dec 15, 1:04 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "landotter" <landot...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:2b56b790-3dd9-472b-8db4-cbc6a704ec4a@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Dec 15, 12:42 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I have been using Topeak trunk bags with the QuickTrack system for my
> >> Chicago commute for a couple years, all conditions, year round. The bags
> >> are
> >> OK, except for the cheap zippers. With daily use, the zippers crap out
> >> after
> >> 6 months or so. I am getting tired of replacing the bag because the
> >> stupid
> >> cheap zippers have become a daily annoyance.
>
> > Why are you replacing the bag? Just have a pro put on some heavy duty
> > YKK zippers and be done with it. I had the zippers on a m/c jacket
> > replaced by that leather shop on Belmont by the elevated train stop a
> > few years ago.
>
> Hey LO:
>
> I have been replacing the bag, because I don't know any better.
>
> I am further NW than the Belmont / Blue Line intersection. My El leg is only
> from Rosemont to Jeff Park, a very short train ride. But I could certainly
> get to Belmont. Do you have an address, business name, link, etc. for the
> leather shop?

Nah, it's been too long, prolly seven years since I had it done. But
any dry cleaner should point you to someone that can put a zipper in
for you. Alternately, find an upholstery shop and have them do it, as
they have heavier duty machines. I think it cost $20 or so when I had
the one sleeve zipper on my m/c jacket replaced. Looked better than
new.

YKK is a high quality Japanese brand, and what most shops will use by
default.

Now, if I could only remember that cobbler up by Lincoln square and
Damen, where ya had two German guys, one who did rights and the other
lefts. $15 got ya a pair of new Cat's Paw heels...

[A Muzi]

>> "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I have been using Topeak trunk bags with the QuickTrack system for my
>>> Chicago commute for a couple years, all conditions, year round. The bags
>>> are
>>> OK, except for the cheap zippers. With daily use, the zippers crap out
>>> after
>>> 6 months or so. I am getting tired of replacing the bag because the
>>> stupid
>>> cheap zippers have become a daily annoyance.

> "landotter" <landotter@gmail.com> wrote
>> Why are you replacing the bag? Just have a pro put on some heavy duty
>> YKK zippers and be done with it. I had the zippers on a m/c jacket
>> replaced by that leather shop on Belmont by the elevated train stop a
>> few years ago.

Jay wrote:
> I have been replacing the bag, because I don't know any better.
> I am further NW than the Belmont / Blue Line intersection. My El leg is only
> from Rosemont to Jeff Park, a very short train ride. But I could certainly
> get to Belmont. Do you have an address, business name, link, etc. for the
> leather shop? Also, I have no idea what a YKK zipper is. I know...there is
> no need to pound my chest - I am in fact breathing.
>
> Thanks - and I apologize for previously calling you deranged - here is the
> pot calling the kettle black - J.

YKK is the premium zipper. Get a big fat gauge once you find an
alterations shop or leatherworker to do it. I had a new beefy YKK sewn
in to my leather jacket in 1997, been no trouble since.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Jay]

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:4764277b$0$84168$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Jay wrote:
>> I have been using Topeak trunk bags with the QuickTrack system for my
>> Chicago commute for a couple years, all conditions, year round. The bags
>> are OK, except for the cheap zippers. With daily use, the zippers crap
>> out after 6 months or so. I am getting tired of replacing the bag because
>> the stupid cheap zippers have become a daily annoyance. Is anyone making
>> a higher quality trunk bag for rear racks, that will hold up year round?
>
> I you're not using the QuickTrack, and want to attach directly to the
> rack, then the only good trunk bag is the LonePeak (see
> "http://www.lickbike.com/productpage.aspx?PART_NUM_SUB='3648-01'").
>
> The issue with most of the trunk bags is that they use Velcro to attach to
> the rack, and the Velcro goes bad fairly quickly. Only the LonePeak uses
> buckles.
>
>
The Lone Peak does look like a good bag. My experience with Velcro has been,
if you leave it zipped, it will last. That is what I plan to do with my
Arkel Tail Rider. But I agree with you, buckles are better than unzipping
Velcro on a regular basis.

Another reason I decided to support Arkel is their helpful website. For
instance, here is a link to the features of the Tail Rider
http://www.arkel-od.com/panniers/tailrider/features.asp?fl=1&site= .

Thanks - J.

[Jay]

"landotter" <landotter@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ecdd260c-b9a5-4e3d-ac14-05985a80d48e@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 15, 1:04 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "landotter" <landot...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:2b56b790-3dd9-472b-8db4-cbc6a704ec4a@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On Dec 15, 12:42 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> I have been using Topeak trunk bags with the QuickTrack system for my
>> >> Chicago commute for a couple years, all conditions, year round. The
>> >> bags
>> >> are
>> >> OK, except for the cheap zippers. With daily use, the zippers crap out
>> >> after
>> >> 6 months or so. I am getting tired of replacing the bag because the
>> >> stupid
>> >> cheap zippers have become a daily annoyance.
>>
>> > Why are you replacing the bag? Just have a pro put on some heavy duty
>> > YKK zippers and be done with it. I had the zippers on a m/c jacket
>> > replaced by that leather shop on Belmont by the elevated train stop a
>> > few years ago.
>>
>> Hey LO:
>>
>> I have been replacing the bag, because I don't know any better.
>>
>> I am further NW than the Belmont / Blue Line intersection. My El leg is
>> only
>> from Rosemont to Jeff Park, a very short train ride. But I could
>> certainly
>> get to Belmont. Do you have an address, business name, link, etc. for the
>> leather shop?
>
> Nah, it's been too long, prolly seven years since I had it done. But
> any dry cleaner should point you to someone that can put a zipper in
> for you. Alternately, find an upholstery shop and have them do it, as
> they have heavier duty machines. I think it cost $20 or so when I had
> the one sleeve zipper on my m/c jacket replaced. Looked better than
> new.
>
> YKK is a high quality Japanese brand, and what most shops will use by
> default.
>
> Now, if I could only remember that cobbler up by Lincoln square and
> Damen, where ya had two German guys, one who did rights and the other
> lefts. $15 got ya a pair of new Cat's Paw heels...
>
The problem with dealing with these mom-and-pop shops is the language
barrier. Their native tongue is not English, and I speak strictly English.
So I was hoping for a shop, where few words would be required. I certainly
don't want someone to sew new zippers into a trunk bag, which are no better
than the OEM Topeak zippers.

Based on a brief Internet search, it does look like YKK makes a zipper which
will do the job.

I am not terribly concerned about the price. I just want zippers which do
not give me backtalk, for at least a year or two. Perhaps I am being
unreasonable.

J.

[Jay]

"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
news:13m8dq5som1g562@corp.supernews.com...
>>> "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I have been using Topeak trunk bags with the QuickTrack system for my
>>>> Chicago commute for a couple years, all conditions, year round. The
>>>> bags are
>>>> OK, except for the cheap zippers. With daily use, the zippers crap out
>>>> after
>>>> 6 months or so. I am getting tired of replacing the bag because the
>>>> stupid
>>>> cheap zippers have become a daily annoyance.
>
>> "landotter" <landotter@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Why are you replacing the bag? Just have a pro put on some heavy duty
>>> YKK zippers and be done with it. I had the zippers on a m/c jacket
>>> replaced by that leather shop on Belmont by the elevated train stop a
>>> few years ago.
>
> Jay wrote:
>> I have been replacing the bag, because I don't know any better.
>> I am further NW than the Belmont / Blue Line intersection. My El leg is
>> only from Rosemont to Jeff Park, a very short train ride. But I could
>> certainly get to Belmont. Do you have an address, business name, link,
>> etc. for the leather shop? Also, I have no idea what a YKK zipper is. I
>> know...there is no need to pound my chest - I am in fact breathing.
>>
>> Thanks - and I apologize for previously calling you deranged - here is
>> the pot calling the kettle black - J.
>
> YKK is the premium zipper. Get a big fat gauge once you find an
> alterations shop or leatherworker to do it. I had a new beefy YKK sewn in
> to my leather jacket in 1997, been no trouble since.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
I believe you are right. I bought a nice leather jacket a couple years ago,
and the stupid metal zippers crapped out within weeks. The shop said, your
zippers are guaranteed for life. We will sew in replacement zippers for
free, just drop off the jacket and supply whatever zipper you want sewn in.
(So they guarantee the zipper labor, not the zipper itself.)

So I guess I need to find a local shop to do the work, and an online source
of YKK zippers. Unless my local shop can also supply the YKK zippers.

J.

[landotter]

On Dec 15, 2:23 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "landotter" <landot...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ecdd260c-b9a5-4e3d-ac14-05985a80d48e@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Dec 15, 1:04 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> "landotter" <landot...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:2b56b790-3dd9-472b-8db4-cbc6a704ec4a@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > On Dec 15, 12:42 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> I have been using Topeak trunk bags with the QuickTrack system for my
> >> >> Chicago commute for a couple years, all conditions, year round. The
> >> >> bags
> >> >> are
> >> >> OK, except for the cheap zippers. With daily use, the zippers crap out
> >> >> after
> >> >> 6 months or so. I am getting tired of replacing the bag because the
> >> >> stupid
> >> >> cheap zippers have become a daily annoyance.
>
> >> > Why are you replacing the bag? Just have a pro put on some heavy duty
> >> > YKK zippers and be done with it. I had the zippers on a m/c jacket
> >> > replaced by that leather shop on Belmont by the elevated train stop a
> >> > few years ago.
>
> >> Hey LO:
>
> >> I have been replacing the bag, because I don't know any better.
>
> >> I am further NW than the Belmont / Blue Line intersection. My El leg is
> >> only
> >> from Rosemont to Jeff Park, a very short train ride. But I could
> >> certainly
> >> get to Belmont. Do you have an address, business name, link, etc. for the
> >> leather shop?
>
> > Nah, it's been too long, prolly seven years since I had it done. But
> > any dry cleaner should point you to someone that can put a zipper in
> > for you. Alternately, find an upholstery shop and have them do it, as
> > they have heavier duty machines. I think it cost $20 or so when I had
> > the one sleeve zipper on my m/c jacket replaced. Looked better than
> > new.
>
> > YKK is a high quality Japanese brand, and what most shops will use by
> > default.
>
> > Now, if I could only remember that cobbler up by Lincoln square and
> > Damen, where ya had two German guys, one who did rights and the other
> > lefts. $15 got ya a pair of new Cat's Paw heels...
>
> The problem with dealing with these mom-and-pop shops is the language
> barrier.

Now you're just making **** up. I've had alterations, shoes repaired,
zippers replaced, floors sanded, and veal sausage served to me in
Chicago by a large cross section of immigrants. It's what makes the
city great, and if you can't point to a broken zipper in lieu of
words, well, you're a ****ing moron.

land "also an immigrant" otter

[Jay]

"landotter" <landotter@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2861dd83-7364-46d1-9a02-ef38de502009@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 15, 2:23 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "landotter" <landot...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:ecdd260c-b9a5-4e3d-ac14-05985a80d48e@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On Dec 15, 1:04 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> "landotter" <landot...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:2b56b790-3dd9-472b-8db4-cbc6a704ec4a@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> > On Dec 15, 12:42 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> I have been using Topeak trunk bags with the QuickTrack system for
>> >> >> my
>> >> >> Chicago commute for a couple years, all conditions, year round. The
>> >> >> bags
>> >> >> are
>> >> >> OK, except for the cheap zippers. With daily use, the zippers crap
>> >> >> out
>> >> >> after
>> >> >> 6 months or so. I am getting tired of replacing the bag because the
>> >> >> stupid
>> >> >> cheap zippers have become a daily annoyance.
>>
>> >> > Why are you replacing the bag? Just have a pro put on some heavy
>> >> > duty
>> >> > YKK zippers and be done with it. I had the zippers on a m/c jacket
>> >> > replaced by that leather shop on Belmont by the elevated train stop
>> >> > a
>> >> > few years ago.
>>
>> >> Hey LO:
>>
>> >> I have been replacing the bag, because I don't know any better.
>>
>> >> I am further NW than the Belmont / Blue Line intersection. My El leg
>> >> is
>> >> only
>> >> from Rosemont to Jeff Park, a very short train ride. But I could
>> >> certainly
>> >> get to Belmont. Do you have an address, business name, link, etc. for
>> >> the
>> >> leather shop?
>>
>> > Nah, it's been too long, prolly seven years since I had it done. But
>> > any dry cleaner should point you to someone that can put a zipper in
>> > for you. Alternately, find an upholstery shop and have them do it, as
>> > they have heavier duty machines. I think it cost $20 or so when I had
>> > the one sleeve zipper on my m/c jacket replaced. Looked better than
>> > new.
>>
>> > YKK is a high quality Japanese brand, and what most shops will use by
>> > default.
>>
>> > Now, if I could only remember that cobbler up by Lincoln square and
>> > Damen, where ya had two German guys, one who did rights and the other
>> > lefts. $15 got ya a pair of new Cat's Paw heels...
>>
>> The problem with dealing with these mom-and-pop shops is the language
>> barrier.
>
> Now you're just making **** up. I've had alterations, shoes repaired,
> zippers replaced, floors sanded, and veal sausage served to me in
> Chicago by a large cross section of immigrants. It's what makes the
> city great, and if you can't point to a broken zipper in lieu of
> words, well, you're a ****ing moron.
>
> land "also an immigrant" otter
>
>
Jesus Christ, it does not take much to set you off.

Please let me clarify.

In my part of town (Hoffman Estates - Barrington), the dry cleaning, shoe
care, nail care, etc. service shops in the strip malls, are predominantly
owned and run by people to whom English is not their native tongue. I do not
criticize this business model or any recent immigrant group. That is just
the reality in my area, and I do not claim to speak for any other geographic
area. People who speak fluent English tend to find easier ways to earn a
living.

"Pointing to a broken zipper" will not magically make a YKK heavy duty
zipper replace it. There is the human communication link which you have
glossed over. Pointing with fingers only goes so far. That is where a shared
language, between shop keeper and customer, is essential.

(I feel like I am back in Humanities 101, and I always hated that class.)

Aside: What makes Chicago great is the Irish mafia, but that is a topic for
another thread.

Life Long Chicagoan Jay

[Andrew Price]

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:45:05 -0800 (PST), landotter
<landotter@gmail.com> wrote:

[---]

>land "also an immigrant" otter

I knew that, from previous posts, but I have to say that I am nothing
short of amazed by your perfect English. How old were you when you
arrived from Sweden?

[Tom Sherman]

landotter wrote:
> ...
> Now you're just making **** up. I've had alterations, shoes repaired,
> zippers replaced, floors sanded, and veal sausage served to me in
> Chicago by a large cross section of immigrants. It's what makes the
> city great, and if you can't point to a broken zipper in lieu of
> words, well, you're a ****ing moron.

Yeah, try dialing 311 sometime! The person who answers sounds like
he/she is a native English speaker, but with no comprehension!

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!

[A Muzi]

>>>> "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I have been using Topeak trunk bags with the QuickTrack system for my
>>>>> Chicago commute for a couple years, all conditions, year round. The
>>>>> bags are
>>>>> OK, except for the cheap zippers. With daily use, the zippers crap out
>>>>> after
>>>>> 6 months or so. I am getting tired of replacing the bag because the
>>>>> stupid
>>>>> cheap zippers have become a daily annoyance.
>>> "landotter" <landotter@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Why are you replacing the bag? Just have a pro put on some heavy duty
>>>> YKK zippers and be done with it. I had the zippers on a m/c jacket
>>>> replaced by that leather shop on Belmont by the elevated train stop a
>>>> few years ago.

>> Jay wrote:
>>> I have been replacing the bag, because I don't know any better.
>>> I am further NW than the Belmont / Blue Line intersection. My El leg is
>>> only from Rosemont to Jeff Park, a very short train ride. But I could
>>> certainly get to Belmont. Do you have an address, business name, link,
>>> etc. for the leather shop? Also, I have no idea what a YKK zipper is. I
>>> know...there is no need to pound my chest - I am in fact breathing.
>>> Thanks - and I apologize for previously calling you deranged - here is
>>> the pot calling the kettle black - J.

> "A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote
>> YKK is the premium zipper. Get a big fat gauge once you find an
>> alterations shop or leatherworker to do it. I had a new beefy YKK sewn in
>> to my leather jacket in 1997, been no trouble since.

Jay wrote:
> I believe you are right. I bought a nice leather jacket a couple years ago,
> and the stupid metal zippers crapped out within weeks. The shop said, your
> zippers are guaranteed for life. We will sew in replacement zippers for
> free, just drop off the jacket and supply whatever zipper you want sewn in.
> (So they guarantee the zipper labor, not the zipper itself.)
> So I guess I need to find a local shop to do the work, and an online source
> of YKK zippers. Unless my local shop can also supply the YKK zippers.

An extra couple of bucks for a top quality replacement seems logical.
When the manufacturer buys them 100,000 at a time, every nickel gets
scrutinized. Hence it costs you $30 to get past their 17c 'savings'.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

In article <QbednYB1cdTooPnanZ2dnUVZ_v-hnZ2d@comcast.com>,
jbollyn@gmail.com says...

> So I guess I need to find a local shop to do the work, and an online source
> of YKK zippers. Unless my local shop can also supply the YKK zippers.

Your local shop will probably find it easier to supply YKK zippers than
the cheaper off-brands. People who are replacing zippers generally
don't want another cheap one, they want a good one, so suppliers of
replacement zippers tend to carry better-quality zippers.

--
josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html>

[Kristian M Zoerhoff]

On 2007-12-15, Jay <jbollyn@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> In my part of town (Hoffman Estates - Barrington), the dry cleaning, shoe
> care, nail care, etc. service shops in the strip malls, are predominantly
> owned and run by people to whom English is not their native tongue. I do not
> criticize this business model or any recent immigrant group. That is just
> the reality in my area, and I do not claim to speak for any other geographic
> area. People who speak fluent English tend to find easier ways to earn a
> living.

You're closer to me than I thought. You shouldn't have any problems getting
a heavy-duty zipper done at a tailor; mom and pop might be English-challenged,
but there's often a kid or six in the brood that speak it just fine and work
the shop, especially after school or on weekends. I've had several zippers
replaced at a Chinese-run tailor in Elgin, and if there's an issue, mom sends
for the kid in back.

> Aside: What makes Chicago great is the Irish mafia, but that is a topic for
> another thread.

That reminds me that I need to have my orange ready for St. Pats day. And my
fast bike :-)

--

Kristian Zoerhoff
kristian.zoerhoff@gmail.com

[Jay]

"Kristian M Zoerhoff" <kristian.zoerhoff@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:AQX8j.5931$Dt4.5165@newssvr19.news.prodigy.ne t...
> On 2007-12-15, Jay <jbollyn@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> In my part of town (Hoffman Estates - Barrington), the dry cleaning, shoe
>> care, nail care, etc. service shops in the strip malls, are predominantly
>> owned and run by people to whom English is not their native tongue. I do
>> not
>> criticize this business model or any recent immigrant group. That is just
>> the reality in my area, and I do not claim to speak for any other
>> geographic
>> area. People who speak fluent English tend to find easier ways to earn a
>> living.
>
> You're closer to me than I thought. You shouldn't have any problems
> getting
> a heavy-duty zipper done at a tailor; mom and pop might be
> English-challenged,
> but there's often a kid or six in the brood that speak it just fine and
> work
> the shop, especially after school or on weekends. I've had several zippers
> replaced at a Chinese-run tailor in Elgin, and if there's an issue, mom
> sends
> for the kid in back.
>
>> Aside: What makes Chicago great is the Irish mafia, but that is a topic
>> for
>> another thread.
>
> That reminds me that I need to have my orange ready for St. Pats day. And
> my
> fast bike :-)
>
> --
>
> Kristian Zoerhoff
> kristian.zoerhoff@gmail.com
>
I have also had that experience. My local dry cleaner / tailor speaks mostly
Korean, but she has a younger relative who works weekends, who speaks
perfect English.

I have always thought of my ancestry as German / Austrian. But I do have an
Ireland jersey.

http://tinyurl.com/yr5smq

J.

[landotter]

On Dec 15, 3:46 pm, Andrew Price <ajpr...@free.fr> wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:45:05 -0800 (PST), landotter
>
> <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [---]
>
> >land "also an immigrant" otter
>
> I knew that, from previous posts, but I have to say that I am nothing
> short of amazed by your perfect English. How old were you when you
> arrived from Sweden?

'Bout three. Learned English at six--perfect age to speak both
languages like a native. ;-)

Heck, most Swedes in Sweden speak better English than they do here in
Nashville.

Now where's my "tar ahrn"?

[Jay]

"Tim McNamara" <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote in message
news:timmcn-618381.16534215122007@news.iphouse.com...
> In article <SuOdnXXAU_hrgvnanZ2dnUVZ_sCtnZ2d@comcast.com>,
> "Jay" <jbollyn@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have been using Topeak trunk bags with the QuickTrack system for my
>> Chicago commute for a couple years, all conditions, year round. The
>> bags are OK, except for the cheap zippers. With daily use, the
>> zippers crap out after 6 months or so. I am getting tired of
>> replacing the bag because the stupid cheap zippers have become a
>> daily annoyance. Is anyone making a higher quality trunk bag for rear
>> racks, that will hold up year round?
>
> Perhaps:
>
> http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/bags_and_racks#product=20-126
>
> http://www.wallbike.com/berthoud/rackbag.html
>
> http://www.ortliebusa.com/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=141&cid=2
>
> http://www.ortliebusa.com/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=37&cid=2
>
>
I am impressed by Ortlieb! They will definitely get some of my money in the
future.

Thanks - J.

[Jay]

"Pete Biggs" <p@pomegranateremovehighlyimpracticalfruitbiggs.tc> wrote in
message news:5sj9edF16q66vU1@mid.individual.net...
> Jay wrote:
>> I have been using Topeak trunk bags with the QuickTrack system for my
>> Chicago commute for a couple years, all conditions, year round. The
>> bags are OK, except for the cheap zippers. With daily use, the
>> zippers crap out after 6 months or so. I am getting tired of
>> replacing the bag because the stupid cheap zippers have become a
>> daily annoyance. Is anyone making a higher quality trunk bag for rear
>> racks, that will hold up year round?
>
> www.carradice.co.uk/rack-packs/index.html
>
> ~PB
>
Carradice does look interesting. They are on my list for next time.

Thanks - J.

[datakoll]

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=7638028&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=9459&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=13047747&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1

cut 1/4" ply to fit duffel bottom, sand edges and paint. Place in bag
bottom.

[Jay]

"datakoll" <datakoll@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d24e072e-865d-4bf5-b2ac-5ff0b0130352@w40g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> DON'T BE A ****
>
> make one http://www.seattlefabrics.com/nylons.html#fc1
>
> or be what you are and go over to Homedepot. In TOOL AREA, on the rear
> wall are construction bags ready for your rack IF you bolt a painted
> piece of 1/2 ply, almost precut over in lumber onto your rack with DIY
> straps, over in fastners in Aluminum or Ferrous something.
> No saw? hunt down someone in lumber who (this is extremely important
> at HD)looks intelligent, ask him to cut your piece to size.
> let the ply hang over the nikrre's rear wheel to accept a 2' long bag
> AND AND AND let the bike stand up on the ply tail and against a wall
> for maintenance.
> ply tail also good for rear light mounting.
>
yeah, but wouldn't a milk crate be a lot easier?

thanks - J.

[landotter]

On Dec 15, 6:48 pm, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> DON'T BE A ****


*****/*****

[Dale]

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 17:06:53 -0800, <josh@phred.org> wrote:

>In article <QbednYB1cdTooPnanZ2dnUVZ_v-hnZ2d@comcast.com>,
>jbollyn@gmail.com says...
>
>> So I guess I need to find a local shop to do the work, and an online source
>> of YKK zippers. Unless my local shop can also supply the YKK zippers.
>
>Your local shop will probably find it easier to supply YKK zippers than
>the cheaper off-brands. People who are replacing zippers generally
>don't want another cheap one, they want a good one, so suppliers of
>replacement zippers tend to carry better-quality zippers.

Arkel, and other manufacturers of quality equipment, use YKK heavy
duty zippers as a matter of course.

Though Arkel guarantees their products for life, the zipper guarantee
lasts only a year. After five years of almost daily use my Arkel Lady
Bug's zipper finally crapped out Arkel replaces out-of-warranty
zippers for $25.00. They also replaced the fuzzy shock cord at no
charge and repaired some chafed stitches. I could have saved the
shipping costs of getting it to them, and the turnaround time for its
return, by going to my local cobbler but he wouldn't have given the
extended service nor would I have been as confident in his abilities.

[datakoll]

OR GUT A BLOWN MICROWAVE

[datakoll]

GRANTED, zippers are fragile. But I'll bet the zipper on a $400 bag is
abused, maligned, ignored and generally treated with complete
disrepect: leading to zipper failure.
The bag maker knows this, they know you the consumer are a total
moron, a mental dwarf incapable of understanding the zipper is not a
steel I-beam.
gotta keep your zipper clean, lube, line the sides up, pull straight
and down the zipper line, use the straps taking stress off the zipper
as a lateral closure mechanism, don't twist fold or mutilate...
ask yourself?
DO I FOLLOW THIS GENERAL GOOD ZIPPER PRACTICE?

The ARKEL sure is nice bag. But making a cardboard box to fit then
draping, taping cordura, cutting box section for Cordure tempplate
cuts and sewing is cheaper. The extra bags and dingles are salvaged
from used packs from the thrift: cut off and sew on your DIY. COST:
$45 with rain cover

[Jay]

"Dale" <imnot@vcn.bc.ca> wrote in message
news:bhd9m31hvo6ann7frtjmu6va5cjvjaidm9@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 17:06:53 -0800, <josh@phred.org> wrote:
>
>>In article <QbednYB1cdTooPnanZ2dnUVZ_v-hnZ2d@comcast.com>,
>>jbollyn@gmail.com says...
>>
>>> So I guess I need to find a local shop to do the work, and an online
>>> source
>>> of YKK zippers. Unless my local shop can also supply the YKK zippers.
>>
>>Your local shop will probably find it easier to supply YKK zippers than
>>the cheaper off-brands. People who are replacing zippers generally
>>don't want another cheap one, they want a good one, so suppliers of
>>replacement zippers tend to carry better-quality zippers.
>
> Arkel, and other manufacturers of quality equipment, use YKK heavy
> duty zippers as a matter of course.
>
> Though Arkel guarantees their products for life, the zipper guarantee
> lasts only a year. After five years of almost daily use my Arkel Lady
> Bug's zipper finally crapped out Arkel replaces out-of-warranty
> zippers for $25.00. They also replaced the fuzzy shock cord at no
> charge and repaired some chafed stitches. I could have saved the
> shipping costs of getting it to them, and the turnaround time for its
> return, by going to my local cobbler but he wouldn't have given the
> extended service nor would I have been as confident in his abilities.
>
>
Thanks for the Arkel info! Arkel is news to me. I just ordered the Tail
Rider http://www.arkel-od.com/panniers/tailrider/overview.asp?fl=1&site= . I
like the integrated rain cover. I expect the cover will help keep the crud
out of the zippers.

J.

[datakoll]

seariously, when the zipper is hard pulling, do you think " >^%$$
()*&!!!~~ " zipper or do you say "gee whiz time to brush clean and
lube muh zipper?"

[datakoll]

and a big hi from the Chinese!

[Zoot Katz]

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 10:45:32 -0600, "Jay" <jbollyn@gmail.com> wrote:

>Thanks for the Arkel info! Arkel is news to me. I just ordered the Tail
>Rider http://www.arkel-od.com/panniers/tailrider/overview.asp?fl=1&site= . I
>like the integrated rain cover. I expect the cover will help keep the crud
>out of the zippers.
>
The company's full name is "Arkel OverDesigns".

It seems a most fitting appellation as one discovers the details
incorporated into every product.

[SMS 斯蒂文• 夏]

Jay wrote:

> The Lone Peak does look like a good bag. My experience with Velcro has been,
> if you leave it zipped, it will last. That is what I plan to do with my
> Arkel Tail Rider. But I agree with you, buckles are better than unzipping
> Velcro on a regular basis.

Every trunk bag I've had, the point of failure has been the Velcro, not
the zippers. When it gets wet or dirty it loses grip, and eventually the
straps deteriorate from exposure to weather (sun and rain). I
established a "no velcro" policy for future purchases of trunk bags for
family members, and as the velcro ones wear out they are being replaced
by the admittedly expensive Lone Peak. Even made in the U.S.A.--amazing.

I may be the only person in the world that isn't totally awed by Arkel.
I have the Arkel Bug, and I had to change all the rear racks on the
bicycles that use it because of design issues with the mounting system.
See "http://bicycleluggageracks.com".

[Jay]

"datakoll" <datakoll@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f3aae03f-9a72-47fd-b9c6-ffa0ccaa1dbc@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> and a big hi from the Chinese!
>
>
You are, of course, correct.

I have recently come to the realization, that it is impossible for the
middle class to completely eschew Chinese products. I refuse to move to a MT
cabin. I will not live in a cave in Afghanistan.

I will continue to be a wage slave drone, and accept the inevitable Chinese
product.

J.

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Dec 16, 1:04 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "datakoll" <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f3aae03f-9a72-47fd-b9c6-ffa0ccaa1dbc@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > and a big hi from the Chinese!
>
> You are, of course, correct.
>
> I have recently come to the realization, that it is impossible for the
> middle class to completely eschew Chinese products. I refuse to move to a MT
> cabin. I will not live in a cave in Afghanistan.
>
> I will continue to be a wage slave drone, and accept the inevitable Chinese
> product.
>
>

Resistance is futile. Your disposable income will be assimilated by
the Sino-American juggernaut.

[Jay]

"landotter" <landotter@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5cc1d2c1-8100-4fe0-bb70-525df7cfd53f@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 15, 6:48 pm, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> DON'T BE A ****
>
>
> *****/*****
>
My dear friend landotter:

Please stay on your meds.

You are more interesting when you are coherent.

J.

[landotter]

On Dec 16, 1:38 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "landotter" <landot...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:5cc1d2c1-8100-4fe0-bb70-525df7cfd53f@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...> On Dec 15, 6:48 pm, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> DON'T BE A ****
>
> > *****/*****
>
> My dear friend landotter:
>
> Please stay on your meds.
>
> You are more interesting when you are coherent.
>

Accusing people of mental illness is classic wingnut behavior.

You're the one so scared of immigrants that you can't even have them
mend a zipper for you, *******.

Here's hoping to you slipping on one of the metal bridges on the way
into the loop this winter! Chin Chin!

[Jay]

"landotter" <landotter@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21d50020-1c4f-444d-a53c-646654e37c3f@r60g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 16, 1:38 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "landotter" <landot...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:5cc1d2c1-8100-4fe0-bb70-525df7cfd53f@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...>
>> On Dec 15, 6:48 pm, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> DON'T BE A ****
>>
>> > *****/*****
>>
>> My dear friend landotter:
>>
>> Please stay on your meds.
>>
>> You are more interesting when you are coherent.
>>
>
> Accusing people of mental illness is classic wingnut behavior.
>
> You're the one so scared of immigrants that you can't even have them
> mend a zipper for you, *******.
>
> Here's hoping to you slipping on one of the metal bridges on the way
> into the loop this winter! Chin Chin!
>
My dearest Usenet brother landotter:

Thanks for your kind and thoughtful comments.

I wish you and your family a safe and happy holiday season!

J.

[landotter]

On Dec 16, 5:33 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> On Dec 16, 1:04 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "datakoll" <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:f3aae03f-9a72-47fd-b9c6-ffa0ccaa1dbc@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > and a big hi from the Chinese!
>
> > You are, of course, correct.
>
> > I have recently come to the realization, that it is impossible for the
> > middle class to completely eschew Chinese products. I refuse to move to a MT
> > cabin. I will not live in a cave in Afghanistan.
>
> > I will continue to be a wage slave drone, and accept the inevitable Chinese
> > product.
>
> Resistance is futile. Your disposable income will be assimilated by
> the Sino-American juggernaut.

Forgot to finish your post!:

MUWAHAHAHAHAHA

<moustache twist>

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Dec 16, 7:40 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 16, 5:33 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Dec 16, 1:04 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > "datakoll" <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:f3aae03f-9a72-47fd-b9c6-ffa0ccaa1dbc@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > and a big hi from the Chinese!
>
> > > You are, of course, correct.
>
> > > I have recently come to the realization, that it is impossible for the
> > > middle class to completely eschew Chinese products. I refuse to move to a MT
> > > cabin. I will not live in a cave in Afghanistan.
>
> > > I will continue to be a wage slave drone, and accept the inevitable Chinese
> > > product.
>
> > Resistance is futile. Your disposable income will be assimilated by
> > the Sino-American juggernaut.
>
> Forgot to finish your post!:
>
> MUWAHAHAHAHAHA
>
> <moustache twist>

There are no moustaches in the Collective, Seven-of-Eleven.


;-)

[landotter]

On Dec 16, 8:00 pm, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> On Dec 16, 7:40 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 16, 5:33 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > On Dec 16, 1:04 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > "datakoll" <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> > > >news:f3aae03f-9a72-47fd-b9c6-ffa0ccaa1dbc@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > and a big hi from the Chinese!
>
> > > > You are, of course, correct.
>
> > > > I have recently come to the realization, that it is impossible for the
> > > > middle class to completely eschew Chinese products. I refuse to move to a MT
> > > > cabin. I will not live in a cave in Afghanistan.
>
> > > > I will continue to be a wage slave drone, and accept the inevitable Chinese
> > > > product.
>
> > > Resistance is futile. Your disposable income will be assimilated by
> > > the Sino-American juggernaut.
>
> > Forgot to finish your post!:
>
> > MUWAHAHAHAHAHA
>
> > <moustache twist>
>
> There are no moustaches in the Collective, Seven-of-Eleven.
>
> ;-)

I *did* tell you about my collection of adhesive Robert Goulet (now in
the claws of Jebus) moustaches I got in the back of the gaderobe?!

<me tosses Ozark a classic model, black as licorice!>

[jbollyn@gmail.com]

On Dec 16, 10:22*pm, Zoot Katz <zootk...@operamail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 10:45:32 -0600, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Thanks for the Arkel info! Arkel is news to me. I just ordered the Tail
> >Riderhttp://www.arkel-od.com/panniers/tailrider/overview.asp?fl=1&site=. I
> >like the integrated rain cover. I expect the cover will help keep the crud
> >out of the zippers.
>
> The company's full name is "Arkel OverDesigns".
>
> It seems a most fitting appellation as one discovers the details
> incorporated into every product.
>
I agree. I have been using the Arkel bag for one day, and I am
impressed by the quality, and by the design.

J.

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Dec 16, 10:31 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 16, 8:00 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Dec 16, 7:40 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 16, 5:33 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > On Dec 16, 1:04 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > "datakoll" <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:f3aae03f-9a72-47fd-b9c6-ffa0ccaa1dbc@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > > and a big hi from the Chinese!
>
> > > > > You are, of course, correct.
>
> > > > > I have recently come to the realization, that it is impossible for the
> > > > > middle class to completely eschew Chinese products. I refuse to move to a MT
> > > > > cabin. I will not live in a cave in Afghanistan.
>
> > > > > I will continue to be a wage slave drone, and accept the inevitable Chinese
> > > > > product.
>
> > > > Resistance is futile. Your disposable income will be assimilated by
> > > > the Sino-American juggernaut.
>
> > > Forgot to finish your post!:
>
> > > MUWAHAHAHAHAHA
>
> > > <moustache twist>
>
> > There are no moustaches in the Collective, Seven-of-Eleven.
>
> > ;-)
>
> I *did* tell you about my collection of adhesive Robert Goulet (now in
> the claws of Jebus) moustaches I got in the back of the gaderobe?!
>
> <me tosses Ozark a classic model, black as licorice!>

Yeah, yeah.....but, do you have the rare, '60s vintage *unbleached*
Carol Lawrence 'stache?

[landotter]

On Dec 17, 7:09 am, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> On Dec 16, 10:31 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 16, 8:00 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > On Dec 16, 7:40 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 16, 5:33 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Dec 16, 1:04 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > "datakoll" <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> > > > > >news:f3aae03f-9a72-47fd-b9c6-ffa0ccaa1dbc@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > > > and a big hi from the Chinese!
>
> > > > > > You are, of course, correct.
>
> > > > > > I have recently come to the realization, that it is impossible for the
> > > > > > middle class to completely eschew Chinese products. I refuse to move to a MT
> > > > > > cabin. I will not live in a cave in Afghanistan.
>
> > > > > > I will continue to be a wage slave drone, and accept the inevitable Chinese
> > > > > > product.
>
> > > > > Resistance is futile. Your disposable income will be assimilated by
> > > > > the Sino-American juggernaut.
>
> > > > Forgot to finish your post!:
>
> > > > MUWAHAHAHAHAHA
>
> > > > <moustache twist>
>
> > > There are no moustaches in the Collective, Seven-of-Eleven.
>
> > > ;-)
>
> > I *did* tell you about my collection of adhesive Robert Goulet (now in
> > the claws of Jebus) moustaches I got in the back of the gaderobe?!
>
> > <me tosses Ozark a classic model, black as licorice!>
>
> Yeah, yeah.....but, do you have the rare, '60s vintage *unbleached*
> Carol Lawrence 'stache?

That's just residue from when she won the Hasty Pudding Woman of the
Year Award!

[jbollyn@gmail.com]

On Dec 17, 7:50 am, SMS $B;[h\J8(B* $B2F(B <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> Jay wrote:
> > The Lone Peak does look like a good bag. My experience with Velcro has been,
> > if you leave it zipped, it will last. That is what I plan to do with my
> > Arkel Tail Rider. But I agree with you, buckles are better than unzipping
> > Velcro on a regular basis.
>
> Every trunk bag I've had, the point of failure has been the Velcro, not
> the zippers. When it gets wet or dirty it loses grip, and eventually the
> straps deteriorate from exposure to weather (sun and rain). I
> established a "no velcro" policy for future purchases of trunk bags for
> family members, and as the velcro ones wear out they are being replaced
> by the admittedly expensive Lone Peak. Even made in the U.S.A.--amazing.
>
> I may be the only person in the world that isn't totally awed by Arkel.
> I have the Arkel Bug, and I had to change all the rear racks on the
> bicycles that use it because of design issues with the mounting system.
> See "http://bicycleluggageracks.com".
>
I will see how the Velcro holds up. If the Velcro becomes annoying,
hopefully it will be possible to jury-rig a different fastening
system, without too much trouble. I would hate to not be able to use a
great bag, just because it uses Velcro by default.

J.

[jbollyn@gmail.com]

On Dec 17, 7:50 am, SMS $B;[h\J8(B* $B2F(B <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> Jay wrote:
> > The Lone Peak does look like a good bag. My experience with Velcro has been,
> > if you leave it zipped, it will last. That is what I plan to do with my
> > Arkel Tail Rider. But I agree with you, buckles are better than unzipping
> > Velcro on a regular basis.
>
> Every trunk bag I've had, the point of failure has been the Velcro, not
> the zippers. When it gets wet or dirty it loses grip, and eventually the
> straps deteriorate from exposure to weather (sun and rain). I
> established a "no velcro" policy for future purchases of trunk bags for
> family members, and as the velcro ones wear out they are being replaced
> by the admittedly expensive Lone Peak. Even made in the U.S.A.--amazing.
>
> I may be the only person in the world that isn't totally awed by Arkel.
> I have the Arkel Bug, and I had to change all the rear racks on the
> bicycles that use it because of design issues with the mounting system.
> See "http://bicycleluggageracks.com".
>
It looks like Tim's suggestion of the Ortlieb Bike Box2 would probably
be the most durable and trouble-free mounting system. It has a rack
adapter http://www.ortliebusa.com/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=141&cid=2
which allows you to just snap the box on and off the rack. From the
manufacturer point of view, Velcro is easier and cheaper for them. But
the Ortlieb adapter would probably be more durable, and the on/off
process would be easier and faster than Velcro.

J.

[datakoll]

WELL, Zoot offers a balanced, intelligent and unwanted opinion but
moving past that the situation is extremely serious both economically
and in terms of human failure, the confluence: fatal consumerism.
FC is terminal and hopeless. While repair and maintenance is at hand
and forced on riders, building, fabricating for the intellectual and
physical pleasure of doing your own thing remains over the horizon.
Riders responding positively to my continuously shrill whining on DIY
as actually doing something have a long history of DIY.
One invention is a $1 chain guard eliminating 50% of road grit one the
daily ride.
Meeting a new cyclist in conversation, I sometimes point to it after
setting the rider up with chain talk and explain what it does.
The response is total incomprehension, vacuity. I have asked the rider
to think in an area never before entered.
But if I said, this here thing costs $25, will attract drooling Las
vegas show girls and give you immortality
THEN they understand.
AND YOU ZOOT?

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Dec 17, 8:23 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 17, 7:09 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Dec 16, 10:31 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 16, 8:00 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > On Dec 16, 7:40 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Dec 16, 5:33 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Dec 16, 1:04 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > "datakoll" <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> > > > > > >news:f3aae03f-9a72-47fd-b9c6-ffa0ccaa1dbc@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > > > > and a big hi from the Chinese!
>
> > > > > > > You are, of course, correct.
>
> > > > > > > I have recently come to the realization, that it is impossible for the
> > > > > > > middle class to completely eschew Chinese products. I refuse to move to a MT
> > > > > > > cabin. I will not live in a cave in Afghanistan.
>
> > > > > > > I will continue to be a wage slave drone, and accept the inevitable Chinese
> > > > > > > product.
>
> > > > > > Resistance is futile. Your disposable income will be assimilated by
> > > > > > the Sino-American juggernaut.
>
> > > > > Forgot to finish your post!:
>
> > > > > MUWAHAHAHAHAHA
>
> > > > > <moustache twist>
>
> > > > There are no moustaches in the Collective, Seven-of-Eleven.
>
> > > > ;-)
>
> > > I *did* tell you about my collection of adhesive Robert Goulet (now in
> > > the claws of Jebus) moustaches I got in the back of the gaderobe?!
>
> > > <me tosses Ozark a classic model, black as licorice!>
>
> > Yeah, yeah.....but, do you have the rare, '60s vintage *unbleached*
> > Carol Lawrence 'stache?
>
> That's just residue from when she won the Hasty Pudding Woman of the
> Year Award!

Why does it smell like fish?

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Dec 17, 9:02 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> WELL, Zoot offers a balanced, intelligent and unwanted opinion but
> moving past that the situation is extremely serious both economically
> and in terms of human failure, the confluence: fatal consumerism.
> FC is terminal and hopeless. While repair and maintenance is at hand
> and forced on riders, building, fabricating for the intellectual and
> physical pleasure of doing your own thing remains over the horizon.
> Riders responding positively to my continuously shrill whining on DIY
> as actually doing something have a long history of DIY.
> One invention is a $1 chain guard eliminating 50% of road grit one the
> daily ride.
> Meeting a new cyclist in conversation, I sometimes point to it after
> setting the rider up with chain talk and explain what it does.
> The response is total incomprehension, vacuity. I have asked the rider
> to think in an area never before entered.
> But if I said, this here thing costs $25, will attract drooling Las
> vegas show girls and give you immortality
> THEN they understand.


"Chainguard" is so practical, so retro. Start referring to it as a
"chain fairing" and tout the aero advantages. Then, eBay 'em for $50 a
pop (BUY IT NOW!!!). A CFRP version will fetch a C-note.


> AND YOU ZOOT?

Zoot alors? Zoot suit? Zoot yourself?

[datakoll]

From the French du jour ("of the day"), and thus temporary

VELCRO needs maintenance thru combing with a dry brush or wet with
dilute dush liquid "soap" and hosed out with a solid stream of water.
there is advice. off course, on the net. Wikipedia?

you can buy, Seattle Fabrics, 2" wide velcro to replace the worn out
velcro. Velcro has two sides-hook and loop.

[SMS 斯蒂文• 夏]

jbollyn@gmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 17, 7:50 am, SMS 斯蒂文* 夏 <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> Jay wrote:
>>> The Lone Peak does look like a good bag. My experience with Velcro has been,
>>> if you leave it zipped, it will last. That is what I plan to do with my
>>> Arkel Tail Rider. But I agree with you, buckles are better than unzipping
>>> Velcro on a regular basis.
>> Every trunk bag I've had, the point of failure has been the Velcro, not
>> the zippers. When it gets wet or dirty it loses grip, and eventually the
>> straps deteriorate from exposure to weather (sun and rain). I
>> established a "no velcro" policy for future purchases of trunk bags for
>> family members, and as the velcro ones wear out they are being replaced
>> by the admittedly expensive Lone Peak. Even made in the U.S.A.--amazing.
>>
>> I may be the only person in the world that isn't totally awed by Arkel.
>> I have the Arkel Bug, and I had to change all the rear racks on the
>> bicycles that use it because of design issues with the mounting system.
>> See "http://bicycleluggageracks.com".
>>
> I will see how the Velcro holds up. If the Velcro becomes annoying,
> hopefully it will be possible to jury-rig a different fastening
> system, without too much trouble. I would hate to not be able to use a
> great bag, just because it uses Velcro by default.

IMVAIO, if it uses velcro to hold it onto the rack, then it's not a
great bag.

[datakoll]

I dunno, maybe she's from the...

[landotter]

On Dec 17, 9:59 am, Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> On Dec 17, 8:23 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 17, 7:09 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > On Dec 16, 10:31 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 16, 8:00 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Dec 16, 7:40 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Dec 16, 5:33 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Dec 16, 1:04 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > "datakoll" <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> > > > > > > >news:f3aae03f-9a72-47fd-b9c6-ffa0ccaa1dbc@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > > > > > and a big hi from the Chinese!
>
> > > > > > > > You are, of course, correct.
>
> > > > > > > > I have recently come to the realization, that it is impossible for the
> > > > > > > > middle class to completely eschew Chinese products. I refuse to move to a MT
> > > > > > > > cabin. I will not live in a cave in Afghanistan.
>
> > > > > > > > I will continue to be a wage slave drone, and accept the inevitable Chinese
> > > > > > > > product.
>
> > > > > > > Resistance is futile. Your disposable income will be assimilated by
> > > > > > > the Sino-American juggernaut.
>
> > > > > > Forgot to finish your post!:
>
> > > > > > MUWAHAHAHAHAHA
>
> > > > > > <moustache twist>
>
> > > > > There are no moustaches in the Collective, Seven-of-Eleven.
>
> > > > > ;-)
>
> > > > I *did* tell you about my collection of adhesive Robert Goulet (now in
> > > > the claws of Jebus) moustaches I got in the back of the gaderobe?!
>
> > > > <me tosses Ozark a classic model, black as licorice!>
>
> > > Yeah, yeah.....but, do you have the rare, '60s vintage *unbleached*
> > > Carol Lawrence 'stache?
>
> > That's just residue from when she won the Hasty Pudding Woman of the
> > Year Award!
>
> Why does it smell like fish?

face lift! (ask Joan Rivers if ya don't get it)

[SMS 斯蒂文• 夏]

jbollyn@gmail.com wrote:

<snip>

> It looks like Tim's suggestion of the Ortlieb Bike Box2 would probably
> be the most durable and trouble-free mounting system. It has a rack
> adapter http://www.ortliebusa.com/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=141&cid=2
> which allows you to just snap the box on and off the rack. From the
> manufacturer point of view, Velcro is easier and cheaper for them. But
> the Ortlieb adapter would probably be more durable, and the on/off
> process would be easier and faster than Velcro.

Then you have to buy a rack adapter for every bike you ever expect to
use it on, but it's better than using Velcro fasteners.

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Dec 17, 10:42 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 17, 9:59 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
>
>
> <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > On Dec 17, 8:23 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 17, 7:09 am, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > On Dec 16, 10:31 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Dec 16, 8:00 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Dec 16, 7:40 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Dec 16, 5:33 pm, Ozark Bicycle
>
> > > > > > > <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Dec 16, 1:04 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > "datakoll" <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> > > > > > > > >news:f3aae03f-9a72-47fd-b9c6-ffa0ccaa1dbc@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > > > > > > and a big hi from the Chinese!
>
> > > > > > > > > You are, of course, correct.
>
> > > > > > > > > I have recently come to the realization, that it is impossible for the
> > > > > > > > > middle class to completely eschew Chinese products. I refuse to move to a MT
> > > > > > > > > cabin. I will not live in a cave in Afghanistan.
>
> > > > > > > > > I will continue to be a wage slave drone, and accept the inevitable Chinese
> > > > > > > > > product.
>
> > > > > > > > Resistance is futile. Your disposable income will be assimilated by
> > > > > > > > the Sino-American juggernaut.
>
> > > > > > > Forgot to finish your post!:
>
> > > > > > > MUWAHAHAHAHAHA
>
> > > > > > > <moustache twist>
>
> > > > > > There are no moustaches in the Collective, Seven-of-Eleven.
>
> > > > > > ;-)
>
> > > > > I *did* tell you about my collection of adhesive Robert Goulet (now in
> > > > > the claws of Jebus) moustaches I got in the back of the gaderobe?!
>
> > > > > <me tosses Ozark a classic model, black as licorice!>
>
> > > > Yeah, yeah.....but, do you have the rare, '60s vintage *unbleached*
> > > > Carol Lawrence 'stache?
>
> > > That's just residue from when she won the Hasty Pudding Woman of the
> > > Year Award!
>
> > Why does it smell like fish?
>
> face lift! (ask Joan Rivers if ya don't get it)


Joan's not taking my calls, can you 'splain?

This doesn't involve velcro, straps and/or "rack adapters", does it? :-
o

[datakoll]

Pelican and Otter boxes are mountable individually or in a duffel.

Row of velcro on the box bottom, ply surface on rack (tilted
backwards) then cam straps over the box thru clips mounted on the box-
see Seattle Fabrics marine hardware-and uroff.
and don't forget the safety wire.
I place the electronics in a box. Electronics are stripped with closed
cell foam, box is packed with foam.

[Zoot Katz]

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:40:21 -0600, Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>Yeah, try dialing 311 sometime! The person who answers sounds like
>he/she is a native English speaker, but with no comprehension!

I've learned that speech recognition robots respond to a growl by
immediately connecting you to a human.
--
zk

[A Muzi]

> landotter wrote:
>> ...
>> Now you're just making **** up. I've had alterations, shoes repaired,
>> zippers replaced, floors sanded, and veal sausage served to me in
>> Chicago by a large cross section of immigrants. It's what makes the
>> city great, and if you can't point to a broken zipper in lieu of
>> words, well, you're a ****ing moron.

Tom Sherman wrote:
> Yeah, try dialing 311 sometime! The person who answers sounds like
> he/she is a native English speaker, but with no comprehension!

311 are City employees.
Let's try to keep this in the real world, OK?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Tom Sherman]

Zoot Katz wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:40:21 -0600, Tom Sherman
> <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, try dialing 311 sometime! The person who answers sounds like
>> he/she is a native English speaker, but with no comprehension!
>
> I've learned that speech recognition robots respond to a growl by
> immediately connecting you to a human.

311 is the number for City of Chicago information. It is staffed by real
people (patronage jobs, no doubt), but they are less helpful than a
computer with voice recognition technology.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!

[Jay]

"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
news:13mo0rgct56c93b@corp.supernews.com...
>> landotter wrote:
>>> ...
>>> Now you're just making **** up. I've had alterations, shoes repaired,
>>> zippers replaced, floors sanded, and veal sausage served to me in
>>> Chicago by a large cross section of immigrants. It's what makes the
>>> city great, and if you can't point to a broken zipper in lieu of
>>> words, well, you're a ****ing moron.
>
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Yeah, try dialing 311 sometime! The person who answers sounds like he/she
>> is a native English speaker, but with no comprehension!
>
> 311 are City employees.
> Let's try to keep this in the real world, OK?
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
I had a similar experience recently with Dell tech support. My support call
was routed to a call center in India. The person spoke reasonably good
English. But it was clearly a case of 'lights on, but no one is home'. My
first warning was, the tech repeated everything I had previously said. But
there was no actual communication.

J.

[Tom Sherman]

Andrew Muzi wrote:
>> landotter wrote:
>>> ...
>>> Now you're just making **** up. I've had alterations, shoes repaired,
>>> zippers replaced, floors sanded, and veal sausage served to me in
>>> Chicago by a large cross section of immigrants. It's what makes the
>>> city great, and if you can't point to a broken zipper in lieu of
>>> words, well, you're a ****ing moron.
>
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Yeah, try dialing 311 sometime! The person who answers sounds like
>> he/she is a native English speaker, but with no comprehension!
>
> 311 are City employees.
> Let's try to keep this in the real world, OK?

Well, Andrew lives in a city where they decided to save money by not
plowing snow, so that may color his views somewhat:
<http://www.yellowjersey.org/bbauman.jpg>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!

[A Muzi]

>>> landotter wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>> Now you're just making **** up. I've had alterations, shoes repaired,
>>>> zippers replaced, floors sanded, and veal sausage served to me in
>>>> Chicago by a large cross section of immigrants. It's what makes the
>>>> city great, and if you can't point to a broken zipper in lieu of
>>>> words, well, you're a ****ing moron.

>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>> Yeah, try dialing 311 sometime! The person who answers sounds like he/she
>>> is a native English speaker, but with no comprehension!

> "A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote
>> 311 are City employees.
>> Let's try to keep this in the real world, OK?

Jay wrote:
> I had a similar experience recently with Dell tech support. My support call
> was routed to a call center in India. The person spoke reasonably good
> English. But it was clearly a case of 'lights on, but no one is home'. My
> first warning was, the tech repeated everything I had previously said. But
> there was no actual communication.

OK, I can see that.

But we were talking about a zipper replacement at a leather or
alterations shop where English may be imperfect but still useful. I can
see your average immigrant with a sewing machine having greater
motivation to get that right than anyone at 311 or Dell has for anything
you'd care to call about.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[still just me]

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:52:57 -0600, A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
wrote:

>OK, I can see that.
>
>But we were talking about a zipper replacement at a leather or
>alterations shop where English may be imperfect but still useful. I can
>see your average immigrant with a sewing machine having greater
>motivation to get that right than anyone at 311 or Dell has for anything
>you'd care to call about.


I hope you're not suggesting that state or off-shore workers are not
motivated by a desire to maximize quality and customer satisfaction!

[A Muzi]

>>> landotter wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>> Now you're just making **** up. I've had alterations, shoes repaired,
>>>> zippers replaced, floors sanded, and veal sausage served to me in
>>>> Chicago by a large cross section of immigrants. It's what makes the
>>>> city great, and if you can't point to a broken zipper in lieu of
>>>> words, well, you're a ****ing moron.

>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>> Yeah, try dialing 311 sometime! The person who answers sounds like
>>> he/she is a native English speaker, but with no comprehension!

> Andrew Muzi wrote:
>> 311 are City employees.
>> Let's try to keep this in the real world, OK?

Tom Sherman wrote:
> Well, Andrew lives in a city where they decided to save money by not
> plowing snow, so that may color his views somewhat:
> <http://www.yellowjersey.org/bbauman.jpg>.

Yeah, as if that huge felonious ongoing criminal enterprise would be in
any way affected by a few nights of drivers' wages. Next to all the
inlaws and frat buddies drawing 'outside consultant' fees, the snowplows
would be chump change.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Tom Sherman]

Andrew Muzi mused:
>>>> landotter wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>> Now you're just making **** up. I've had alterations, shoes repaired,
>>>>> zippers replaced, floors sanded, and veal sausage served to me in
>>>>> Chicago by a large cross section of immigrants. It's what makes the
>>>>> city great, and if you can't point to a broken zipper in lieu of
>>>>> words, well, you're a ****ing moron.
>
>>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>>> Yeah, try dialing 311 sometime! The person who answers sounds like
>>>> he/she is a native English speaker, but with no comprehension!
>
>> Andrew Muzi wrote:
>>> 311 are City employees.
>>> Let's try to keep this in the real world, OK?
>
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Well, Andrew lives in a city where they decided to save money by not
>> plowing snow, so that may color his views somewhat:
>> <http://www.yellowjersey.org/bbauman.jpg>.
>
> Yeah, as if that huge felonious ongoing criminal enterprise would be in
> any way affected by a few nights of drivers' wages. Next to all the
> inlaws and frat buddies drawing 'outside consultant' fees, the snowplows
> would be chump change.

Oh my, I am agreeing with Andrew on a political issue!

As an aside, engineering organizations have been dropping the word
"consultant" to avoid the negative association of being classified with
the parasites living off the taxpayer teat that Andrew refers to. Unlike
the parasites, engineers are expected to produce specific design
documents, and can be sued for negligence if the deliverables do not
meet the standard of care for engineering practice.

For the "consultants" living an upper middle class lifestyle on what
amounts to government welfare, there is no standard of care. And unlike
many of the engineering services, the parasitic services are not
competitively bid by price.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
POST FREE OR DIE!

[Michael]

Tom Sherman wrote:
(snip)
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> POST FREE OR DIE!


I gotta ask now: is "Holstein-Friesland Bovina" in New Hampshire (AKA
COWhampshire), the "Live Free or Die" state? Inquiring minds want to know.

---
Michael

[Jay]

"Michael" <NoSpam@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:476E9F61.A950478@gmail.com...
>
>
> Tom Sherman wrote:
> (snip)
>> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
>> POST FREE OR DIE!
>
>
> I gotta ask now: is "Holstein-Friesland Bovina" in New Hampshire (AKA
> COWhampshire), the "Live Free or Die" state? Inquiring minds want to
> know.
>
> ---
> Michael
>
You are braver than me. I was afraid to ask.

J.

[Tom Sherman]

Michael wrote:
>
> Tom Sherman wrote:
> (snip)
>> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
>> POST FREE OR DIE!
>
>
> I gotta ask now: is "Holstein-Friesland Bovina" in New Hampshire (AKA
> COWhampshire), the "Live Free or Die" state? Inquiring minds want to know.

See <http://www.legis.state.wi.us/LRB/BB/01bb/ch11.pdf>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
POST FREE OR DIE!

[A Muzi]

> Tom Sherman wrote:
> (snip)
>> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
>> POST FREE OR DIE!

Michael wrote:
> I gotta ask now: is "Holstein-Friesland Bovina" in New Hampshire (AKA
> COWhampshire), the "Live Free or Die" state? Inquiring minds want to know.

Wisconsin. Out here in cow country, the cute ones are Holsteins. I hired
and artist to make us up a Jersey graphic once. Bleccch. That's one ugly
cow. Now we have a pretty Holstein logo.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Tom Sherman]

Jay Bollyn wrote:
> "Michael" <NoSpam@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:476E9F61.A950478@gmail.com...
>>
>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> (snip)
>>> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
>>> POST FREE OR DIE!
>>
>> I gotta ask now: is "Holstein-Friesland Bovina" in New Hampshire (AKA
>> COWhampshire), the "Live Free or Die" state? Inquiring minds want to
>> know.
>>
>> ---
>> Michael
>>
> You are braver than me. I was afraid to ask.

Because one of our state traditions is the Friday night FIB fry? ;)

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
POST FREE OR DIE!

[Jay]

"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
news:13mthc0rrf53o54@corp.supernews.com...
>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> (snip)
>>> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
>>> POST FREE OR DIE!
>
> Michael wrote:
>> I gotta ask now: is "Holstein-Friesland Bovina" in New Hampshire (AKA
>> COWhampshire), the "Live Free or Die" state? Inquiring minds want to
>> know.
>
> Wisconsin. Out here in cow country, the cute ones are Holsteins. I hired
> and artist to make us up a Jersey graphic once. Bleccch. That's one ugly
> cow. Now we have a pretty Holstein logo.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
Yeah, that is because WI is mostly about dairy.

I like Hereford Angus cross, for beef. But not personally.

J.