9 speed or 10 speed cluster?

[vyaw2003@gmail.com]

currently have 10 speed cluster, is a 9 speed better? what the
advantages and disadvantages?
105 shimano.

[JG]

I never raced. I have an 8 speed on my fast tour bike, because the
cogs are still full width.

But I can do math.

A 39/11 is equivalent to a 53/15. That means, unless you try to
interlace the gears and double shift, and nobody does, that with a
straight block you have 11-12-13-14 plus 9 or 10 more gears. You are
looking at either a 13 or 14 speed...
(This is also the idea behind a compact crank. With a 50-34, you can
get one more gear in the mix.) It's not a big difference and why
Shimano was going with 9 speeds until they decided Campagnola's 10
speed was a marketing threat...

JG

[dustoyevsky@mac.com]

On Dec 19, 7:16 pm, big_one <telavers...@****you.co.uk> wrote:
> Lou Holtman <lholditn...@planet.nl> wrote:
> > Just keep
> >the cables clean and that isn't hard for a road bike.
>
> isn't hard for a house bike... but a PITA for a bike that goes on
> roads

Completely contrary to my experience. Ergo levers in my use have been
much more reliable and "fiddle-free" than downtube friction shifters,
with "minimum" (close to nil) maintenance. Ridden, for instance, on
filthy (or wet and filthy) Houston Inner Loop streets.

Not to mention much better shifting-- faster, no "almost in gear" with
noise and slipping, especially on low gears under duress, and more
gears, and hands-on-hoods shifting making life easier and safer.

You can bash Ergo (and shimaNo) on "cost" I guess but then, like with
modern automobiles, you're getting so much more than with the products/
designs of the 50's and 60's. --D-y

[vyaw2003@gmail.com]

also my top cog 25, i dont ever remember ever using that even up hills

[Chalo]

vyaw2...@gmail.com wrote:
> currently have 10 speed cluster, is a 9 speed better? what the
> advantages and disadvantages?

All else equal, 9-speed equipment is much less expensive than 10-
speed. The same can be said for 8-speed in comparison to 9-speed, and
7-speed in comparison to 8.

7-speed cassettes and freewheels are available in the same tooth count
range (between 11 and 34 teeth) as cassettes with more sprockets, and
they allow rear wheels to be built stronger with slightly less dish.
For these reasons I consider 7-speed equipment to have the best cost-
benefit ratio of all derailleur systems.

Chalo

[Tommy]

On Dec 17, 11:09 am, vyaw2...@gmail.com wrote:
> currently have 10 speed cluster, is a 9 speed better? what the
> advantages and disadvantages?
> 105 shimano.

In the Campy range some components are cheaper some more expensive.
The Ergo changer 10 is cheaper slightly, the cassette dearer(more
cogs).
10 is more available, at least in UK.
I believe you can change the ratchet in the changer if you can find an
agent who will obtain one.
Follow the GB pursuit team in the world cup - especially Steve
Cummings from Discovery. He still rides out with his old club mates.
Great Guy.
cheers

[russellseaton1@yahoo.com]

On Dec 17, 5:09 am, vyaw2...@gmail.com wrote:
> currently have 10 speed cluster, is a 9 speed better? what the
> advantages and disadvantages?
> 105 shimano.

If you already have 10, stay with 10. If you already have 9, stay
with 9. Unless your sponsor is buying everything for you. My last
bike build up was 10 because I was starting from scratch. I bought
all of the parts for that bike. 10 was easier to find, shifters
mainly. For my next bike build up it will be 9 because I have
acquired all of the parts already and they are sitting in boxes.
Shifters and cassettes and chains are the main parts.

[Steve Gravrock]

On 2007-12-17, vyaw2003@gmail.com <vyaw2003@gmail.com> wrote:
> currently have 10 speed cluster, is a 9 speed better? what the
> advantages and disadvantages?
> 105 shimano.

If 10 speed is working fine for you, stick with it. You'll need to eat
up a lot of cassettes and chains to offset the cost of switching. The
only reason I could see for switching to 9 speed if I already had 10 is
if I wanted a wider range cassette.

[David L. Johnson]

vyaw2003@gmail.com wrote:
> currently have 10 speed cluster, is a 9 speed better? what the
> advantages and disadvantages?

Right. 9 is better than 10. Really, though, 5-speed freewheels are the
best. Send me your nasty 10-speed wheels and I'll send you some 5-speed
ones.

Was there really a point to your question? In what way could fewer
gears be an advantage?

--

David L. Johnson

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by
little statesmen and philosophers and divines."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson

[Tommy]

On Dec 17, 11:25 am, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
> vyaw2...@gmail.com wrote:
> > currently have 10 speed cluster, is a 9 speed better? what the
> > advantages and disadvantages?
>
> All else equal, 9-speed equipment is much less expensive than 10-
> speed. The same can be said for 8-speed in comparison to 9-speed, and
> 7-speed in comparison to 8.
>
> 7-speed cassettes and freewheels are available in the same tooth count
> range (between 11 and 34 teeth) as cassettes with more sprockets, and
> they allow rear wheels to be built stronger with slightly less dish.
> For these reasons I consider 7-speed equipment to have the best cost-
> benefit ratio of all derailleur systems.
>
> Chalo

Perhaps it depends how much pressure you are under to stay in the
bunch.
I find I need the advantage of closer ratios and have not found
dishing an issue as I wear the rim before the spokes become an issue.
cheers
Tommy

[David L. Johnson]

Chalo wrote:
> vyaw2...@gmail.com wrote:
>> currently have 10 speed cluster, is a 9 speed better? what the
>> advantages and disadvantages?
>
> All else equal, 9-speed equipment is much less expensive than 10-
> speed. The same can be said for 8-speed in comparison to 9-speed, and
> 7-speed in comparison to 8.

Not really. 9-speed Campy cassettes are considerably cheaper than
8-speed, and they are much easier to find.
>
> 7-speed cassettes and freewheels are available in the same tooth count
> range (between 11 and 34 teeth) as cassettes with more sprockets, and
> they allow rear wheels to be built stronger with slightly less dish.
> For these reasons I consider 7-speed equipment to have the best cost-
> benefit ratio of all derailleur systems.

This argument can go all the way down to 5, where you get a much
stronger wheel. Chalo can probably benefit from the strongest wheel he
can find, but for most riders, a 9 or 10 (no difference, by the way, in
strength of the wheel between the two, since the dish is the same) will
be plenty strong enough.

The biggest difference with more sprockets is more choice in gears, and
that can be nice. It is not a question of range, since as Chalo says,
you can get 7 (or maybe even 5)-speed freewheels that have as much range
as a 9 or 10, but the jumps between gears will be a lot smaller with
more sprockets. Does that matter? That is a question for you to answer
for yourself. For me, I don't plan to go out and convert my bike to
10speed, since the cost exceeds the benefit. But I am also not going to
toss all that for 7-speed. I get tens of thousands of miles on a wheel,
so don't need anything stronger, and why pay for fewer gears.

Of course, I also ride a fixed gear, so my logic has limits...

--

David L. Johnson

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by
little statesmen and philosophers and divines."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson

[David L. Johnson]

Tommy wrote:

> In the Campy range some components are cheaper some more expensive.
> The Ergo changer 10 is cheaper slightly, the cassette dearer(more
> cogs).

The 10-speed cassettes are considerably more "dear" than would be
justified by adding just 1 sprocket. All else is essentially equal, yet
10speed costs basically twice what 9-speed does. At least as far as I
remember. I can't find much by way of Campy cassettes on-line now.
Good thing I don't need any.

I just checked the nashbar site. Holy ****, why do they get away with
charging $219.95 for a 9-speed cassette? Shimano is weird. 10-speed is
about the same price as 9-speed. And they have precisely 0 Campy
cassettes. OK, Performance has shimano ultegra 10-speed about $10 more
than 9-speed. The difference with dura-ace is $60. They only has 1
Campy cassette, 10-speed, $239.99. Sheesh.


> I believe you can change the ratchet in the changer if you can find an
> agent who will obtain one.

This only applies to Campy.

--

David L. Johnson

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by
little statesmen and philosophers and divines."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson

[Brad Kliewer]

On Dec 17, 6:04 am, Tommy <harvey.lio...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 17, 11:25 am, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > vyaw2...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > currently have 10 speed cluster, is a 9 speed better? what the
> > > advantages and disadvantages?
>
> > All else equal, 9-speed equipment is much less expensive than 10-
> > speed. The same can be said for 8-speed in comparison to 9-speed, and
> > 7-speed in comparison to 8.
>
> > 7-speed cassettes and freewheels are available in the same tooth count
> > range (between 11 and 34 teeth) as cassettes with more sprockets, and
> > they allow rear wheels to be built stronger with slightly less dish.
> > For these reasons I consider 7-speed equipment to have the best cost-
> > benefit ratio of all derailleur systems.
>
> > Chalo
>
> Perhaps it depends how much pressure you are under to stay in the
> bunch.
> I find I need the advantage of closer ratios and have not found
> dishing an issue as I wear the rim before the spokes become an issue.
> cheers
> Tommy

I've got an old tri frame that I'm building up. My current hybrid is 8
speed and I find that there are a couple of places where I wish the
jumps weren't quite so large: I'm at an effort I want to maintain, but
the cadence feels either a bit higher or lower than I'd like. I, too,
was planning to use a 10 speed, but wonder whether a 9 would suffice.
A couple of friends I've mentioned this too say they've heard that 10
speeds are too finicky. My suspicion is that they simply don't know
how to adjust their rear derailleurs (I find I need to tweak my 8
speed only every once in a great while). Am I right in assuming from
the lack of such comments here, that this isn't really an issue?

Or maybe I should find one that goes to 11 so I can have the loudest.

[stubintner@aol.com]

>
> Perhaps it depends how much pressure you are under to stay in the
> bunch.
> I find I need the advantage of closer ratios and have not found
> dishing an issue as I wear the rim before the spokes become an issue.
> cheers
> Tommy

Exactly. If I want to keep up with the guys in my usual group (who
are younger, stronger and faster than I am) I need all ten speeds on
my Campy equipped Six-13.

On the other hand, I could go across the parking lot and join another
group where I could keep up or lead on my 27-pound, steel framed, Trek
touring bike even if it were cut back to the original five speeds.

If I were as young and strong as some in the first group, I could
probably do fine on single. What you want or need is defined, to a
great extent, by what you are trying to accomplish, where you ride,
with whom you ride etc. Obviously, what you can afford to spend is
also a factor.

[Lou Holtman]

Brad Kliewer wrote:
> On Dec 17, 6:04 am, Tommy <harvey.lio...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 17, 11:25 am, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> vyaw2...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> currently have 10 speed cluster, is a 9 speed better? what the
>>>> advantages and disadvantages?
>>> All else equal, 9-speed equipment is much less expensive than 10-
>>> speed. The same can be said for 8-speed in comparison to 9-speed, and
>>> 7-speed in comparison to 8.
>>> 7-speed cassettes and freewheels are available in the same tooth count
>>> range (between 11 and 34 teeth) as cassettes with more sprockets, and
>>> they allow rear wheels to be built stronger with slightly less dish.
>>> For these reasons I consider 7-speed equipment to have the best cost-
>>> benefit ratio of all derailleur systems.
>>> Chalo
>> Perhaps it depends how much pressure you are under to stay in the
>> bunch.
>> I find I need the advantage of closer ratios and have not found
>> dishing an issue as I wear the rim before the spokes become an issue.
>> cheers
>> Tommy
>
> I've got an old tri frame that I'm building up. My current hybrid is 8
> speed and I find that there are a couple of places where I wish the
> jumps weren't quite so large: I'm at an effort I want to maintain, but
> the cadence feels either a bit higher or lower than I'd like. I, too,
> was planning to use a 10 speed, but wonder whether a 9 would suffice.
> A couple of friends I've mentioned this too say they've heard that 10
> speeds are too finicky. My suspicion is that they simply don't know
> how to adjust their rear derailleurs (I find I need to tweak my 8
> speed only every once in a great while). Am I right in assuming from
> the lack of such comments here, that this isn't really an issue?

10 speed isn't finicky from experience for the last 5 years. Just keep
the cables clean and that isn't hard for a road bike.

Lou

[David L. Johnson]

Brad Kliewer wrote:

> I've got an old tri frame that I'm building up. My current hybrid is 8
> speed and I find that there are a couple of places where I wish the
> jumps weren't quite so large: I'm at an effort I want to maintain, but
> the cadence feels either a bit higher or lower than I'd like. I, too,
> was planning to use a 10 speed, but wonder whether a 9 would suffice.
> A couple of friends I've mentioned this too say they've heard that 10
> speeds are too finicky.

With modern derailleurs, they all shift very nicely. You'd have to be
somewhat obsessive-compulsive to notice, much less worry about, any
extra finickiness.

--

David L. Johnson

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by
little statesmen and philosophers and divines."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson

[Michael Press]

In article
<f0124f12-a765-4da4-b2a0-1df4ec01b302@w56g2000hsf.googl
egroups.com>,
Brad Kliewer <bkliewer@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Dec 17, 6:04 am, Tommy <harvey.lio...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Dec 17, 11:25 am, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > vyaw2...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > currently have 10 speed cluster, is a 9 speed better? what the
> > > > advantages and disadvantages?
> >
> > > All else equal, 9-speed equipment is much less expensive than 10-
> > > speed. The same can be said for 8-speed in comparison to 9-speed, and
> > > 7-speed in comparison to 8.
> >
> > > 7-speed cassettes and freewheels are available in the same tooth count
> > > range (between 11 and 34 teeth) as cassettes with more sprockets, and
> > > they allow rear wheels to be built stronger with slightly less dish.
> > > For these reasons I consider 7-speed equipment to have the best cost-
> > > benefit ratio of all derailleur systems.
> >
> > > Chalo
> >
> > Perhaps it depends how much pressure you are under to stay in the
> > bunch.
> > I find I need the advantage of closer ratios and have not found
> > dishing an issue as I wear the rim before the spokes become an issue.
> > cheers
> > Tommy
>
> I've got an old tri frame that I'm building up. My current hybrid is 8
> speed and I find that there are a couple of places where I wish the
> jumps weren't quite so large: I'm at an effort I want to maintain, but
> the cadence feels either a bit higher or lower than I'd like. I, too,
> was planning to use a 10 speed, but wonder whether a 9 would suffice.
> A couple of friends I've mentioned this too say they've heard that 10
> speeds are too finicky. My suspicion is that they simply don't know
> how to adjust their rear derailleurs (I find I need to tweak my 8
> speed only every once in a great while). Am I right in assuming from
> the lack of such comments here, that this isn't really an issue?
>
> Or maybe I should find one that goes to 11 so I can have the loudest.

The 11 to 12 jump is largish. A 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23
is a great combination for close spacing. Add chain wheels
as necessary.

--
Michael Press

Well, I don't really think that the end can be assessed as of itself as being the end because what does the endfeel like? It's like saying when you try to extrapolate the end of the universe, you say, if the universe is
indeed infinite, then how - what does that mean? How
far is all the way, and then if it stops, what's
stopping it, and what's behind what's stopping it? So,
what's the end, you know, is my question to you.

[M-gineering]

Lou Holtman wrote:

> 10 speed isn't finicky from experience for the last 5 years. Just keep
> the cables clean and that isn't hard for a road bike.
>
> Lou

more expensive, but easier to set up than 9 sp ime. Shifters seem to
last a bit better too
--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

[Chalo]

David L. Johnson wrote:
>
> Chalo wrote:
> >
> > vyaw2...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >> currently have 10 speed cluster, is a 9 speed better? what the
> >> advantages and disadvantages?
>
> > All else equal, 9-speed equipment is much less expensive than 10-
> > speed. The same can be said for 8-speed in comparison to 9-speed, and
> > 7-speed in comparison to 8.
>
> Not really. 9-speed Campy cassettes are considerably cheaper than
> 8-speed, and they are much easier to find.

For cost-effectiveness, Campagnolo index drivetrain parts are best
avoided altogether. This is usually the case even if some parts are
available for free, since the ones you have to buy will probably more
than eat up the savings.

> > 7-speed cassettes and freewheels are available in the same tooth count
> > range (between 11 and 34 teeth) as cassettes with more sprockets, and
> > they allow rear wheels to be built stronger with slightly less dish.
> > For these reasons I consider 7-speed equipment to have the best cost-
> > benefit ratio of all derailleur systems.
>
> This argument can go all the way down to 5, where you get a much
> stronger wheel.

5- and 6-speed parts compare well on cost, but not on effectiveness.
For example, currently produced 5-speed clusters all have 14 teeth on
the small end, and I don't think 5-speed freewheels can be had anymore
with larger than 28t low gears. 6-speed freewheels are limited to 13t
small sprockets. Index shifters for 5- and 6-speed clusters are
uncommon and crude compared to 7-speed equipment. Limited gearing
range, spotty parts availability, and poor quality more than offset
the wheelbuilding benefits of 5- and 6-speed hubs.

> Chalo can probably benefit from the strongest wheel he
> can find, but for most riders, a 9 or 10 (no difference, by the way, in
> strength of the wheel between the two, since the dish is the same) will
> be plenty strong enough.

Like for like, there is a difference in strength. Use 32 or more
spokes and a sensible rim, and you are probably covered in any case
(for most values of "you"). But where 32 spokes and a 450g rim just
passes muster on a 9-speed, with 7 speeds and minimum dishing you
could probably use 28 spokes and a 400g rim with equally good
results. The difference is subtle, but it is the sort of thing folks
pay real money for-- and in this case it _saves_ a bunch of money.

When you consider only the initial cost of one rear hub plus one
cluster, running a 7 speed freewheel means being able to sport Phil
bling at an Ultegra budget if that floats your boat. Or you can just
run a smooth unpretentious sealed bearing freewheel hub and save about
a hundred bucks at no cost in appearance, weight, gearing range, or
utility. This doesn't even address the difference in the cost of
shifters or chains or replacement parts.

> I get tens of thousands of miles on a wheel,
> so don't need anything stronger, and why pay for fewer gears.

If 9-speed is what you've got and it works, then sure, why not? But
when starting from scratch and buying everything you need, it makes
good sense from a value standpoint to use 7-speed instead of 8-, 9- or
10-speed equipment.

Chalo

[russellseaton1@yahoo.com]

On Dec 17, 6:58 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
wrote:
> Tommy wrote:
> > In the Campy range some components are cheaper some more expensive.
> > The Ergo changer 10 is cheaper slightly, the cassette dearer(more
> > cogs).
>
> The 10-speed cassettes are considerably more "dear" than would be
> justified by adding just 1 sprocket. All else is essentially equal, yet
> 10speed costs basically twice what 9-speed does. At least as far as I
> remember. I can't find much by way of Campy cassettes on-line now.
> Good thing I don't need any.

England mail order for Campagnolo cassettes. Both 9 and 10. If you
order a few bikes/decades worth of spares, plus some tires, and other
essentials, the shipping isn't too bad when factored into all of the
parts. 9 speed cassettes came out to about $20-30 delivered and 10
speed cassettes $40-50 delivered a year ago.



>
> I just checked the nashbar site. Holy ****, why do they get away with
> charging $219.95 for a 9-speed cassette? Shimano is weird. 10-speed is
> about the same price as 9-speed. And they have precisely 0 Campy
> cassettes. OK, Performance has shimano ultegra 10-speed about $10 more
> than 9-speed. The difference with dura-ace is $60. They only has 1
> Campy cassette, 10-speed, $239.99. Sheesh.
>
> > I believe you can change the ratchet in the changer if you can find an
> > agent who will obtain one.
>
> This only applies to Campy.
>
> --
>
> David L. Johnson
>
> "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by
> little statesmen and philosophers and divines."
> --Ralph Waldo Emerson

[Steve Gravrock]

On 2007-12-18, Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com> wrote:

> If 9-speed is what you've got and it works, then sure, why not? But
> when starting from scratch and buying everything you need, it makes
> good sense from a value standpoint to use 7-speed instead of 8-, 9- or
> 10-speed equipment.

Maybe, maybe not. From what I can see, the fly in the ointment of 7
speed is shifter availability. Shimano has dropped 7 speed from all but
its bottom of the line mountain bike group, and with the off-brand
department store level makes like Falcon moving into 8 speed I doubt
that 7 speed Tourney will be around too much longer. As far as I can
tell *nobody* still makes 7 speed shifters for drop bar bikes.

There's still a fair bit of 7 speed available here and there -- Sora
STIs, Alivio trigger shifters, various SRAM stuff, etc -- but it's all
fairly low-grade. Not that I'm above riding low-grade gear, but I'd
worry about how long it would last given that nobody is making
replacements. I'm not about to walk away from my existing 7 speed gear
but this would give me pause if I was building up a new bike. In
particular, I wouldn't go 7 speed on a drop bar bike unless I already
had a cache of shifters lying around.

[Mark]

On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:04:40 -0800 (PST), Chalo
<chalo.colina@gmail.com> wrote:

>If 9-speed is what you've got and it works, then sure, why not? But
>when starting from scratch and buying everything you need, it makes
>good sense from a value standpoint to use 7-speed instead of 8-, 9- or
>10-speed equipment.

In some parts of the world it is almost impossible to get 7 speed
spares any more (except cassettes). I could not get a front mech for
my 7 speed. When my rear mech needs replacing I don't know what I will
do.

M.

[Jasper Janssen]

On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:04:40 -0800 (PST), Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com>
wrote:

>If 9-speed is what you've got and it works, then sure, why not? But
>when starting from scratch and buying everything you need, it makes
>good sense from a value standpoint to use 7-speed instead of 8-, 9- or
>10-speed equipment.

I'd actually go for 9s over 7s, myself (and did). When you stay with
Shimano, you're pretty much forced into that, even. I definitely don't
want a freewheel hub at my weight (any more than you do), since I've bent
a bit more than my share of axles, and Shimano-7 freehub cogsets aren't
all that easy to get hold of any more here, especially in the variety of
ranges available in 9.

I currently run an ultegra9 11-23 in rear, myself, with a Deore 48/36/26
front. Used to have a Deore9 11-34 rear, but I prefer the closer ratios
and given that I live in FlatLand I don't miss the little bit of extra
range I give up in the granny -- I don't use the granny much at all to
start with. Wheel's a basic-rim 559-47 on an XT40 hub.

Jasper

[vyaw2003@gmail.com]

cool,
my take was that trucks have a 30 gears to get up hills needing low
ratios,
Me on my bike, i go up hills with ease without using my easiest gear,
so why do i need it. I am changing my cassette from 10 sp 13-25 to 10
sp 11-23.
but i was just woundering if 9 gears would be more appropriate seens
that i highest hill i ever climb is only about 600 meters above sea
level. 15% gradient.

[Chalo]

Steve Gravrock wrote:
>
> Chalo wrote:
>
> > If 9-speed is what you've got and it works, then sure, why not? But
> > when starting from scratch and buying everything you need, it makes
> > good sense from a value standpoint to use 7-speed instead of 8-, 9- or
> > 10-speed equipment.
>
> Maybe, maybe not. From what I can see, the fly in the ointment of 7
> speed is shifter availability. Shimano has dropped 7 speed from all but
> its bottom of the line mountain bike group, and with the off-brand
> department store level makes like Falcon moving into 8 speed I doubt
> that 7 speed Tourney will be around too much longer. As far as I can
> tell *nobody* still makes 7 speed shifters for drop bar bikes.

7-speed shifters may diminish in number, but they will be guaranteed a
long life of support because with few exceptions, that is as many
speeds as were ever commonly offered on freewheels. At the moment
there is little need for manufacturer support because there are so
many top quality used shifters circulating that are still in fine
shape. As the existing pool of good 7-speed shifters becomes
depleted, there will doubtlessly be a small flowering of updated 7-
speed designs and/or adaptive hacks of the latest and greatest
seventeen-speed shifters, because all the threaded rear wheels
produced before the mid '80s and many since then won't ever be
sprouting freehub bodies.

Between vintage bikes, delta trikes, 'bents and HPVs with jackshafts,
road-bike-conversions of fixed-gear-conversions of road bikes, kinetic
sculptures, and those freaky dudes gettin' jiggy wit da hemp twine and
lacquer, there will always be an acceptable total market for things to
efficiently shift the most commonly available freewheels. I reckon
even the short-sighted ninnies at Shimano will maintain a 7-speed
shifter option buried somewhere in their catalog, along with their one
single choice of standard-reach caliper brakes and one single choice
of flat bar levers for road bike brakes.

Chalo

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Dec 17, 8:45 pm, Steve Gravrock <use...@sdg.users.panix.com> wrote:
> On 2007-12-18, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > If 9-speed is what you've got and it works, then sure, why not? But
> > when starting from scratch and buying everything you need, it makes
> > good sense from a value standpoint to use 7-speed instead of 8-, 9- or
> > 10-speed equipment.
>
> Maybe, maybe not. From what I can see, the fly in the ointment of 7
> speed is shifter availability. Shimano has dropped 7 speed from all but
> its bottom of the line mountain bike group, and with the off-brand
> department store level makes like Falcon moving into 8 speed I doubt
> that 7 speed Tourney will be around too much longer. As far as I can
> tell *nobody* still makes 7 speed shifters for drop bar bikes.


IME, 8 speed shifters will shift 7 speed seamlessly.


>
> There's still a fair bit of 7 speed available here and there -- Sora
> STIs, Alivio trigger shifters, various SRAM stuff, etc -- but it's all
> fairly low-grade. Not that I'm above riding low-grade gear, but I'd
> worry about how long it would last given that nobody is making
> replacements. I'm not about to walk away from my existing 7 speed gear
> but this would give me pause if I was building up a new bike. In
> particular, I wouldn't go 7 speed on a drop bar bike unless I already
> had a cache of shifters lying around.

[David L. Johnson]

vyaw2003@gmail.com wrote:
> cool,
> my take was that trucks have a 30 gears to get up hills needing low
> ratios,
> Me on my bike, i go up hills with ease without using my easiest gear,
> so why do i need it. I am changing my cassette from 10 sp 13-25 to 10
> sp 11-23.
> but i was just woundering if 9 gears would be more appropriate seens
> that i highest hill i ever climb is only about 600 meters above sea
> level. 15% gradient.

If you start the hill at 550 meters above sea level, then you don't need
to worry about low gears, but if you are climbing those 600 meters of
15%, you ain't fooling no one saying you don't need low gears for that.

--

David L. Johnson

"Business!" cried the Ghost. "Mankind was my business. The common
welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence,
were, all, my business. The dealings of my trade were but a drop of
water in the comprehensive ocean of my business!"
--Dickens, "A Christmas Carol"

[Chalo]

David L. Johnson wrote:
>
> vyaw2...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > I am changing my cassette from 10 sp 13-25 to 10 sp 11-23.
> > but i was just woundering if 9 gears would be more appropriate seens
> > that i highest hill i ever climb is only about 600 meters above sea
> > level. 15% gradient.
>
> If you start the hill at 550 meters above sea level, then you don't need
> to worry about low gears, but if you are climbing those 600 meters of
> 15%, you ain't fooling no one saying you don't need low gears for that.

Maybe his bike has 16 inch wheels.

Chalo

[Jasper Janssen]

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 04:57:46 -0800 (PST), Ozark Bicycle
<bicycleatelier@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>On Dec 17, 8:45 pm, Steve Gravrock <use...@sdg.users.panix.com> wrote:
>> On 2007-12-18, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > If 9-speed is what you've got and it works, then sure, why not? But
>> > when starting from scratch and buying everything you need, it makes
>> > good sense from a value standpoint to use 7-speed instead of 8-, 9- or
>> > 10-speed equipment.
>>
>> Maybe, maybe not. From what I can see, the fly in the ointment of 7
>> speed is shifter availability. Shimano has dropped 7 speed from all but
>> its bottom of the line mountain bike group, and with the off-brand
>> department store level makes like Falcon moving into 8 speed I doubt
>> that 7 speed Tourney will be around too much longer. As far as I can
>> tell *nobody* still makes 7 speed shifters for drop bar bikes.
>
>
>IME, 8 speed shifters will shift 7 speed seamlessly.

For Shimano, http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946
indicates that you're .2 mm off per sprocket. That's a maximum of .7 mm,
if centered properly, on a 7-sp cluster, which is well within the float.
You *may* have slightly more fiddly adjustment, but that's unlikely to be
noticeable.

Jasper

[vyaw2003@gmail.com]

if my 105 derailer isnt changing smoothly, is it just a simple
adjustment of the cable tightner to get it back in line with the cog?
Which gear do i set this in?

[Hank Wirtz]

On Dec 20, 10:14*pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article
> <f0124f12-a765-4da4-b2a0-1df4ec01b...@w56g2000hsf.googl
> egroups.com>,
> *Brad Kliewer <bklie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Or maybe I should find one that goes to 11 so I can have the loudest.
>
> The 11 to 12 jump is largish. A 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23
> is a great combination for close spacing. Add chain wheels
> as necessary.

Can someone loan Michael a copy of This Is Spinal Tap, so he'll get
Brad's joke?

[Ben C]

On 2007-12-21, Mark <i@getlotsofspamthankstoplus.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:04:40 -0800 (PST), Chalo
><chalo.colina@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>If 9-speed is what you've got and it works, then sure, why not? But
>>when starting from scratch and buying everything you need, it makes
>>good sense from a value standpoint to use 7-speed instead of 8-, 9- or
>>10-speed equipment.
>
> In some parts of the world it is almost impossible to get 7 speed
> spares any more (except cassettes). I could not get a front mech for
> my 7 speed. When my rear mech needs replacing I don't know what I will
> do.

I think the chain is the same width for 7, 8 and 9 speed, and no (or not
much) difference in front or rear mechs. Just the shifters really and
how much space on the freehub to fit the cassette onto.

[A Muzi]

> Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If 9-speed is what you've got and it works, then sure, why not? But
>> when starting from scratch and buying everything you need, it makes
>> good sense from a value standpoint to use 7-speed instead of 8-, 9- or
>> 10-speed equipment.

Mark wrote:
> In some parts of the world it is almost impossible to get 7 speed
> spares any more (except cassettes). I could not get a front mech for
> my 7 speed. When my rear mech needs replacing I don't know what I will
> do.

You've been misinformed.

Seven cassettes and freewheels, with both double and triple front
changers, are current to 2008 bicycles.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Mark]

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 04:46:55 -0600, Ben C <spamspam@spam.eggs> wrote:

>On 2007-12-21, Mark <i@getlotsofspamthankstoplus.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:04:40 -0800 (PST), Chalo
>><chalo.colina@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>If 9-speed is what you've got and it works, then sure, why not? But
>>>when starting from scratch and buying everything you need, it makes
>>>good sense from a value standpoint to use 7-speed instead of 8-, 9- or
>>>10-speed equipment.
>>
>> In some parts of the world it is almost impossible to get 7 speed
>> spares any more (except cassettes). I could not get a front mech for
>> my 7 speed. When my rear mech needs replacing I don't know what I will
>> do.
>
>I think the chain is the same width for 7, 8 and 9 speed, and no (or not
>much) difference in front or rear mechs. Just the shifters really and
>how much space on the freehub to fit the cassette onto.

In my case all the front mechs are matched to certain sizes of front
chainrings which are normally used in 8+ speed configurations. I
could not find one to match my chainrings. I had to get one and mount
it too high otherwise it fouled on the smallest ring.

M

[russellseaton1@yahoo.com]

On Dec 21, 4:46*am, Ben C <spams...@spam.eggs> wrote:
> On 2007-12-21, Mark <i...@getlotsofspamthankstoplus.net> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:04:40 -0800 (PST), Chalo
> ><chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>If 9-speed is what you've got and it works, then sure, why not? *But
> >>when starting from scratch and buying everything you need, it makes
> >>good sense from a value standpoint to use 7-speed instead of 8-, 9- or
> >>10-speed equipment.
>
> > In some parts of the world it is almost impossible to get 7 speed
> > spares any more (except cassettes). *I could not get a front mech for
> > my 7 speed. When my rear mech needs replacing I don't know what I will
> > do.
>
> I think the chain is the same width for 7, 8 and 9 speed, and no (or not
> much) difference in front or rear mechs. Just the shifters really and
> how much space on the freehub to fit the cassette onto.

9 speed chains are narrower than 7-8 speed chains. Front and rear
derailleurs don't care if its 7-8-9-10 speeds. I'm using a Shimano 9
speed rear derailleur to shift a 7 speed and an 8 speed front
derailleur to shift a 7 speed. Freehub body for Shimano 7 speed is
shorter than Shimano 8-9. I believe Shimano 10 freehub is also a tiny
bit longer than Shimano 8-9. Camapgnolo 8 speed freehub is shorter
than Campagnolo 9-10.

As for matching the curvature of the front derailleur cage to the
chainrings, whatever. Never bothered my shifting.

[David L. Johnson]

Ben C wrote:
> On 2007-12-21, Mark <i@getlotsofspamthankstoplus.net> wrote:


>> In some parts of the world it is almost impossible to get 7 speed
>> spares any more (except cassettes). I could not get a front mech for
>> my 7 speed. When my rear mech needs replacing I don't know what I will
>> do.
>
> I think the chain is the same width for 7, 8 and 9 speed, and no (or not
> much) difference in front or rear mechs. Just the shifters really and
> how much space on the freehub to fit the cassette onto.

No, 9-speed chains are thinner than 8-speed. 7-speed and 8 are the
same, though. AFAIK the front derailleurs should be the same for 7 and
8, and if 9 speed is different, the differences aren't important. They
may make the cage too thin for the older chains, but that would be about
it. The rear derailleurs may have more differences, depending upon
brand, but again, you can probably use it without worries.

My front derailleur is from the mid-80s. Maybe 6-speed originally. The
bike is now 9-speed with compact crank. Everything works fine.

--

David L. Johnson

Some people used to claim that, if enough monkeys sat in front of
enough typewriters and typed long enough, eventually one of them would
reproduce the collected works of Shakespeare. The internet has
proven this not to be the case.

[Hank Wirtz]

On Dec 21, 3:18*am, Mark <i...@getlotsofspamthankstoplus.net> wrote:

>
> In my case all the front mechs are matched to certain sizes of front
> chainrings which are normally used in 8+ speed configurations. *I
> could not find one to match my chainrings. *I had to get one and mount
> it too high otherwise it fouled on the smallest ring.
>

That's a chainring size thing, not a 7 vs. 8 speed thing.

Based on your description, I'd guess you have something like a
48-38-28, right? Is your front shifter indexed? If it isn't, you could
get a road triple FD, like a Sora 3303 or Tiagra 4403, which are
designed for the same 10t gap between big & middle that your crank
has, and can handle big rings up to 52 (and probably a few teeth
beyond).

[Jasper Janssen]

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 07:01:28 -0800 (PST), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
<russellseaton1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Dec 21, 4:46*am, Ben C <spams...@spam.eggs> wrote:

>9 speed chains are narrower than 7-8 speed chains. Front and rear
>derailleurs don't care if its 7-8-9-10 speeds. I'm using a Shimano 9
>speed rear derailleur to shift a 7 speed and an 8 speed front
>derailleur to shift a 7 speed. Freehub body for Shimano 7 speed is
>shorter than Shimano 8-9.

But you can use a 7s cassette on an 8/9 freehub with a 4.5mm spacer.

>I believe Shimano 10 freehub is also a tiny
>bit longer than Shimano 8-9.

The Dura Ace 7800 freehub body is aluminum and has higher splines than the
regular freehubs. This means it will only fit S10 cassettes, which have
higher notches, but not S7-9 cassettes.

Newer Dura Ace 7850 hubs have a Titanium freehub body which fits all
Shimano cassettes, 7-with-spacer, 8/9/10.

All S10 cassettes will fit without problems on S8/9/10 bodies.

I seem to remember something about a 1mm spacer provided with S10
cassettes which had to be installed or not depending on hub -- but I
actually seem to remember that it may be that the 7800 freehub is (in
addition to the spline height) a mm *shorter* than a regular 8/9/10 body.


Jasper

[Ben C]

On 2007-12-21, David L. Johnson <david.johnson@lehigh.edu> wrote:
> Ben C wrote:
>> On 2007-12-21, Mark <i@getlotsofspamthankstoplus.net> wrote:
>
>
>>> In some parts of the world it is almost impossible to get 7 speed
>>> spares any more (except cassettes). I could not get a front mech for
>>> my 7 speed. When my rear mech needs replacing I don't know what I will
>>> do.
>>
>> I think the chain is the same width for 7, 8 and 9 speed, and no (or not
>> much) difference in front or rear mechs. Just the shifters really and
>> how much space on the freehub to fit the cassette onto.
>
> No, 9-speed chains are thinner than 8-speed. 7-speed and 8 are the
> same, though.

Yup, and I knew that since I actually have 7 and 9 speed bikes. Sorry
for the misinformation everyone...

[Michael Press]

In article
<b13509c9-8bae-426c-b924-efbcad3c32fa@b40g2000prf.googl
egroups.com>,
Hank Wirtz <hank@wirtznet.net> wrote:

> On Dec 20, 10:14*pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > In article
> > <f0124f12-a765-4da4-b2a0-1df4ec01b...@w56g2000hsf.googl
> > egroups.com>,
> > *Brad Kliewer <bklie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Or maybe I should find one that goes to 11 so I can have the loudest.
> >
> > The 11 to 12 jump is largish. A 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23
> > is a great combination for close spacing. Add chain wheels
> > as necessary.
>
> Can someone loan Michael a copy of This Is Spinal Tap, so he'll get
> Brad's joke?

Did you look at the signature quotation?

--
Michael Press

[Mark]

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:33:07 -0800 (PST), Hank Wirtz
<hank@wirtznet.net> wrote:

>On Dec 21, 3:18*am, Mark <i...@getlotsofspamthankstoplus.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> In my case all the front mechs are matched to certain sizes of front
>> chainrings which are normally used in 8+ speed configurations. *I
>> could not find one to match my chainrings. *I had to get one and mount
>> it too high otherwise it fouled on the smallest ring.
>>
>
>That's a chainring size thing, not a 7 vs. 8 speed thing.

Indirectly since the different spread of ratios on the back effects
the front chainrings.

>Based on your description, I'd guess you have something like a
>48-38-28, right? Is your front shifter indexed? If it isn't, you could
>get a road triple FD, like a Sora 3303 or Tiagra 4403, which are
>designed for the same 10t gap between big & middle that your crank
>has, and can handle big rings up to 52 (and probably a few teeth
>beyond).

I can't remember the exact number of teeth but IIRC it's less than 10
teeth between each ring and the top one is around 44-6. This where
the problem occurs since the cage fouls on the smaller rings when
changing down unless I mount the mech too high.

It is indexed.

(Another added complication is that I have to use a top swing due to
the presence of a bolt hole in the wrong place in the downtube.)

M.

[Mark]

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:29:33 -0600, A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
wrote:

>> Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> If 9-speed is what you've got and it works, then sure, why not? But
>>> when starting from scratch and buying everything you need, it makes
>>> good sense from a value standpoint to use 7-speed instead of 8-, 9- or
>>> 10-speed equipment.
>
>Mark wrote:
>> In some parts of the world it is almost impossible to get 7 speed
>> spares any more (except cassettes). I could not get a front mech for
>> my 7 speed. When my rear mech needs replacing I don't know what I will
>> do.
>
>You've been misinformed.
>
>Seven cassettes and freewheels, with both double and triple front
>changers, are current to 2008 bicycles.

Then explain why I cannot buy spares.

M

[Hank Wirtz]

On Dec 21, 4:46*pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article
> <b13509c9-8bae-426c-b924-efbcad3c3...@b40g2000prf.googl
> egroups.com>,
> *Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 20, 10:14*pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <f0124f12-a765-4da4-b2a0-1df4ec01b...@w56g2000hsf.googl
> > > egroups.com>,
> > > *Brad Kliewer <bklie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Or maybe I should find one that goes to 11 so I can have the loudest..
>
> > > The 11 to 12 jump is largish. A 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23
> > > is a great combination for close spacing. Add chain wheels
> > > as necessary.
>
> > Can someone loan Michael a copy of This Is Spinal Tap, so he'll get
> > Brad's joke?
>
> Did you look at the signature quotation?
>
> --
> Michael Press

The same way you read subject lines.

[A Muzi]

>>> Brad Kliewer <bklie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Or maybe I should find one that goes to 11 so I can have the loudest.

>> Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>> The 11 to 12 jump is largish. A 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23
>>> is a great combination for close spacing. Add chain wheels
>>> as necessary.

> Hank Wirtz <hank@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>> Can someone loan Michael a copy of This Is Spinal Tap, so he'll get
>> Brad's joke?

Michael Press wrote:
> Did you look at the signature quotation?

David Johnson's?

"Some people used to claim that, if enough monkeys sat in front of
enough typewriters and typed long enough, eventually one of them would
reproduce the collected works of Shakespeare. The internet has
proven this not to be the case. "

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Michael Press]

In article
<bbaa369b-534f-44a4-9706-db63911a6587@s12g2000prg.googl
egroups.com>,
Hank Wirtz <hank@wirtznet.net> wrote:

> On Dec 21, 4:46*pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > In article
> > <b13509c9-8bae-426c-b924-efbcad3c3...@b40g2000prf.googl
> > egroups.com>,
> > *Hank Wirtz <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> >
> > > On Dec 20, 10:14*pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > <f0124f12-a765-4da4-b2a0-1df4ec01b...@w56g2000hsf.googl
> > > > egroups.com>,
> > > > *Brad Kliewer <bklie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > Or maybe I should find one that goes to 11 so I can have the loudest.
> >
> > > > The 11 to 12 jump is largish. A 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23
> > > > is a great combination for close spacing. Add chain wheels
> > > > as necessary.
> >
> > > Can someone loan Michael a copy of This Is Spinal Tap, so he'll get
> > > Brad's joke?
> >
> > Did you look at the signature quotation?
>
> The same way you read subject lines.

You chose to ignore the evidence before your eyes. The
material is there. Your snide imputation that I missed
the joke is cooked. The joke is on you.

--
Michael Press

[Michael Press]

In article <13mqdn65tkecn38@corp.supernews.com>,
A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

> >>> Brad Kliewer <bklie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Or maybe I should find one that goes to 11 so I can have the loudest.
>
> >> Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >>> The 11 to 12 jump is largish. A 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23
> >>> is a great combination for close spacing. Add chain wheels
> >>> as necessary.
>
> > Hank Wirtz <hank@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> >> Can someone loan Michael a copy of This Is Spinal Tap, so he'll get
> >> Brad's joke?
>
> Michael Press wrote:
> > Did you look at the signature quotation?
>
> David Johnson's?
>
> "Some people used to claim that, if enough monkeys sat in front of
> enough typewriters and typed long enough, eventually one of them would
> reproduce the collected works of Shakespeare. The internet has
> proven this not to be the case. "

The one under my signature.

--
Michael Press
No not this one,
the one in the message to which Hank Wirtz replied.

[Harry (Lincoln, Nebraska)]

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:23:41 +0000, Mark
<i@getlotsofspamthankstoplus.net> wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:29:33 -0600, A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
>wrote:
>
>>> Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> If 9-speed is what you've got and it works, then sure, why not? But
>>>> when starting from scratch and buying everything you need, it makes
>>>> good sense from a value standpoint to use 7-speed instead of 8-, 9- or
>>>> 10-speed equipment.
>>
>>Mark wrote:
>>> In some parts of the world it is almost impossible to get 7 speed
>>> spares any more (except cassettes). I could not get a front mech for
>>> my 7 speed. When my rear mech needs replacing I don't know what I will
>>> do.
>>
>>You've been misinformed.
>>
>>Seven cassettes and freewheels, with both double and triple front
>>changers, are current to 2008 bicycles.
>
>Then explain why I cannot buy spares.
>
>M

Evidently you are not looking in the right places. Are you going to
more than one shop? There are a couple right here that can get spares
if that's what you want. Need the number????

[Hank Wirtz]

On Jan 2, 1:23*am, Mark <i...@getlotsofspamthankstoplus.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:29:33 -0600, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >> Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> If 9-speed is what you've got and it works, then sure, why not? *But
> >>> when starting from scratch and buying everything you need, it makes
> >>> good sense from a value standpoint to use 7-speed instead of 8-, 9- or
> >>> 10-speed equipment.
>
> >Mark wrote:
> >> In some parts of the world it is almost impossible to get 7 speed
> >> spares any more (except cassettes). *I could not get a front mech for
> >> my 7 speed. When my rear mech needs replacing I don't know what I will
> >> do.
>
> >You've been misinformed.
>
> >Seven cassettes and freewheels, with both double and triple front
> >changers, are current to 2008 bicycles.
>
> Then explain why I cannot buy spares.
>

You can - they're just not labelled as "7-speed" anymore. There is
_no_ difference between 7 and 8-speed derailleurs designed for the
same chainring sizes and tooth capacities. 8-speed chain is 7 speed
chain was Ultra-6 chain, and it works dandy on 5-speeds, too. Shifters
and cassettes are the only 7-speed specific parts.

A prior example of an "8-speed" FD not working on a 7-speed system was
a red herring. They tried to use a 44T max FD on a larger chainring.
Not an 8 vs. 7 issue at all.

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:23:41 +0000, Mark
<i@getlotsofspamthankstoplus.net> wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:29:33 -0600, A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
>wrote:
>
>>> Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> If 9-speed is what you've got and it works, then sure, why not? But
>>>> when starting from scratch and buying everything you need, it makes
>>>> good sense from a value standpoint to use 7-speed instead of 8-, 9- or
>>>> 10-speed equipment.
>>
>>Mark wrote:
>>> In some parts of the world it is almost impossible to get 7 speed
>>> spares any more (except cassettes). I could not get a front mech for
>>> my 7 speed. When my rear mech needs replacing I don't know what I will
>>> do.
>>
>>You've been misinformed.
>>
>>Seven cassettes and freewheels, with both double and triple front
>>changers, are current to 2008 bicycles.
>
>Then explain why I cannot buy spares.
>
>M

Dear Mark,

They're often not labeled or advertised as such, or else are in
catalogues like these:


http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=271686558457&c=Components&sc=Derailleurs


http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=271686558457&c=Components&sc=Cassettes-and-Freewheels&tc=Cassette-Sets


http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi?c=Derailleur&sc=Complete%20Front&id=726936030531


http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi?c=Derailleur&sc=Complete%20Rear&id=726936030531


http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi?c=Freewheel&sc=Complete%20Freewheels&tc=7%20Speed&id=726936030531


http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi?c=Cassette&sc=Complete%20Shimano&id=726936030531

http://harriscyclery.net/itemlist.cfm?category=107

http://harriscyclery.net/itemlist.cfm?category=130

http://harriscyclery.net/itemlist.cfm?category=114

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

[A Muzi]

>>> Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> If 9-speed is what you've got and it works, then sure, why not? But
>>>> when starting from scratch and buying everything you need, it makes
>>>> good sense from a value standpoint to use 7-speed instead of 8-, 9- or
>>>> 10-speed equipment.

>> Mark wrote:
>>> In some parts of the world it is almost impossible to get 7 speed
>>> spares any more (except cassettes). I could not get a front mech for
>>> my 7 speed. When my rear mech needs replacing I don't know what I will
>>> do.

> A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> You've been misinformed.
>> Seven cassettes and freewheels, with both double and triple front
>> changers, are current to 2008 bicycles.

Mark wrote:
> Then explain why I cannot buy spares.

Can't explain but they are high volume items in and out of here! Every
major and minor parts distributor carries several brands in both.

Freewheels $29.95 up, cassettes $29.95 up. How many do you need and will
you require seven chain ($14.95 with snap link) with them?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Mark]

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 04:05:41 -0600, "Harry (Lincoln, Nebraska)"
<hbrogan57@NOSPAM.yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:23:41 +0000, Mark
><i@getlotsofspamthankstoplus.net> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:29:33 -0600, A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>> Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> If 9-speed is what you've got and it works, then sure, why not? But
>>>>> when starting from scratch and buying everything you need, it makes
>>>>> good sense from a value standpoint to use 7-speed instead of 8-, 9- or
>>>>> 10-speed equipment.
>>>
>>>Mark wrote:
>>>> In some parts of the world it is almost impossible to get 7 speed
>>>> spares any more (except cassettes). I could not get a front mech for
>>>> my 7 speed. When my rear mech needs replacing I don't know what I will
>>>> do.
>>>
>>>You've been misinformed.
>>>
>>>Seven cassettes and freewheels, with both double and triple front
>>>changers, are current to 2008 bicycles.
>>
>>Then explain why I cannot buy spares.
>>
>>M
>
>Evidently you are not looking in the right places. Are you going to
>more than one shop? There are a couple right here that can get spares
>if that's what you want. Need the number????

I have looked in local shops and on the internet. I can get 7 speed
cassettes but not a front mech that properly fits my bike. Shimano no
longer import these into the UK AFAIK.

Because of the frame I need a top swing mech which rules out most and
the tooth difference between the chainrings is smaller than usual so
all the mechs I have tried foul the smallest ring. The only thing I
can think of doing is to mount the mech much too high, but that means
a poor change and the chain regularly comes off.

I think nebraska is a bit far for me to go (several thousand miles).
;-)

M

[Brian Huntley]

On Jan 3, 4:13*am, Mark <i...@getlotsofspamthankstoplus.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 04:05:41 -0600, "Harry (Lincoln, Nebraska)"
>
>
>
>
>
> <hbroga...@NOSPAM.yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:23:41 +0000, Mark
> ><i...@getlotsofspamthankstoplus.net> wrote:
>
> >>On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:29:33 -0600, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org>
> >>wrote:
>
> >>>> Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> If 9-speed is what you've got and it works, then sure, why not? *But
> >>>>> when starting from scratch and buying everything you need, it makes
> >>>>> good sense from a value standpoint to use 7-speed instead of 8-, 9- or
> >>>>> 10-speed equipment.
>
> >>>Mark wrote:
> >>>> In some parts of the world it is almost impossible to get 7 speed
> >>>> spares any more (except cassettes). *I could not get a front mech for
> >>>> my 7 speed. When my rear mech needs replacing I don't know what I will
> >>>> do.
>
> >>>You've been misinformed.
>
> >>>Seven cassettes and freewheels, with both double and triple front
> >>>changers, are current to 2008 bicycles.
>
> >>Then explain why I cannot buy spares.
>
> >>M
>
> >Evidently you are not looking in the right places. *Are you going to
> >more than one shop? *There are a couple right here that can get spares
> >if that's what you want. *Need the number????
>
> I have looked in local shops and on the internet. *I can get 7 speed
> cassettes but not a front mech that properly fits my bike. Shimano no
> longer import these into the UK AFAIK.
>
> Because of the frame I need a top swing mech which rules out most and
> the tooth difference between the chainrings is smaller than usual so
> all the mechs I have tried foul the smallest ring. *The only thing I
> can think of doing is to mount the mech much too high, but that means
> a poor change and the chain regularly comes off.

Is there something similar to the QBP catalog in the UK? Shimano
Alievio top-swing front deraillers are available through them, and
therefore almost any North American bike shop.

Given typical UK pricing, it might be worth it to purchase online from
a US supplier such as Harris and pay the shipping.

[Hank]

On Jan 3, 1:13*am, Mark <i...@getlotsofspamthankstoplus.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 04:05:41 -0600, "Harry (Lincoln, Nebraska)"
>
>
>
>
>
> <hbroga...@NOSPAM.yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:23:41 +0000, Mark
> ><i...@getlotsofspamthankstoplus.net> wrote:
>
> >>On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:29:33 -0600, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org>
> >>wrote:
>
> >>>> Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> If 9-speed is what you've got and it works, then sure, why not? *But
> >>>>> when starting from scratch and buying everything you need, it makes
> >>>>> good sense from a value standpoint to use 7-speed instead of 8-, 9- or
> >>>>> 10-speed equipment.
>
> >>>Mark wrote:
> >>>> In some parts of the world it is almost impossible to get 7 speed
> >>>> spares any more (except cassettes). *I could not get a front mech for
> >>>> my 7 speed. When my rear mech needs replacing I don't know what I will
> >>>> do.
>
> >>>You've been misinformed.
>
> >>>Seven cassettes and freewheels, with both double and triple front
> >>>changers, are current to 2008 bicycles.
>
> >>Then explain why I cannot buy spares.
>
> >>M
>
> >Evidently you are not looking in the right places. *Are you going to
> >more than one shop? *There are a couple right here that can get spares
> >if that's what you want. *Need the number????
>
> I have looked in local shops and on the internet. *I can get 7 speed
> cassettes but not a front mech that properly fits my bike. Shimano no
> longer import these into the UK AFAIK.
>
> Because of the frame I need a top swing mech which rules out most and
> the tooth difference between the chainrings is smaller than usual so
> all the mechs I have tried foul the smallest ring. *The only thing I
> can think of doing is to mount the mech much too high, but that means
> a poor change and the chain regularly comes off.
>
> I think nebraska is a bit far for me to go (several thousand miles).
> ;-)
>
> M- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

What is your actual chainring setup in the front? If you're using
nonstandard combos, you can expect problems with most modern FDs,
which have ramps for specific transitions. Again, _nothing_ to do with
8 vs. 7.

If it's like 44-38-22 or something weird like that, mount the FD to
serve the middle ring, since that's what the ramp is designed around.
It may LOOK too high, but that's your own hang-up. If the chain drags
on the small/small combo, that's another endorsement for staying out
of the small/small.

[Mark]

On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 08:27:36 -0800 (PST), Brian Huntley
<brian_huntley@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Jan 3, 4:13*am, Mark <i...@getlotsofspamthankstoplus.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 04:05:41 -0600, "Harry (Lincoln, Nebraska)"
>> <hbroga...@NOSPAM.yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:23:41 +0000, Mark
>> ><i...@getlotsofspamthankstoplus.net> wrote:
>>
>> >>On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:29:33 -0600, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org>
>> >>wrote:
>>
>> >>>> Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>> If 9-speed is what you've got and it works, then sure, why not? *But
>> >>>>> when starting from scratch and buying everything you need, it makes
>> >>>>> good sense from a value standpoint to use 7-speed instead of 8-, 9- or
>> >>>>> 10-speed equipment.
>>
>> >>>Mark wrote:
>> >>>> In some parts of the world it is almost impossible to get 7 speed
>> >>>> spares any more (except cassettes). *I could not get a front mech for
>> >>>> my 7 speed. When my rear mech needs replacing I don't know what I will
>> >>>> do.
>>
>> >>>You've been misinformed.
>>
>> >>>Seven cassettes and freewheels, with both double and triple front
>> >>>changers, are current to 2008 bicycles.
>>
>> >>Then explain why I cannot buy spares.
>>
>> >>M
>>
>> >Evidently you are not looking in the right places. *Are you going to
>> >more than one shop? *There are a couple right here that can get spares
>> >if that's what you want. *Need the number????
>>
>> I have looked in local shops and on the internet. *I can get 7 speed
>> cassettes but not a front mech that properly fits my bike. Shimano no
>> longer import these into the UK AFAIK.
>>
>> Because of the frame I need a top swing mech which rules out most and
>> the tooth difference between the chainrings is smaller than usual so
>> all the mechs I have tried foul the smallest ring. *The only thing I
>> can think of doing is to mount the mech much too high, but that means
>> a poor change and the chain regularly comes off.
>
>Is there something similar to the QBP catalog in the UK? Shimano
>Alievio top-swing front deraillers are available through them, and
>therefore almost any North American bike shop.

I've never heard of them and I can't find a UK web-site so I guess
that they don't trade here.

>Given typical UK pricing, it might be worth it to purchase online from
>a US supplier such as Harris and pay the shipping.

I guess about £10 for the part and £50 for shipping!

M.

[Mark]

On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 08:39:25 -0800 (PST), Hank <hank@wirtznet.net>
wrote:

>On Jan 3, 1:13*am, Mark <i...@getlotsofspamthankstoplus.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 04:05:41 -0600, "Harry (Lincoln, Nebraska)"
>> <hbroga...@NOSPAM.yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:23:41 +0000, Mark
>> ><i...@getlotsofspamthankstoplus.net> wrote:
>>
>> >>On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:29:33 -0600, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org>
>> >>wrote:
>>
>> >>>> Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>> If 9-speed is what you've got and it works, then sure, why not? *But
>> >>>>> when starting from scratch and buying everything you need, it makes
>> >>>>> good sense from a value standpoint to use 7-speed instead of 8-, 9- or
>> >>>>> 10-speed equipment.
>>
>> >>>Mark wrote:
>> >>>> In some parts of the world it is almost impossible to get 7 speed
>> >>>> spares any more (except cassettes). *I could not get a front mech for
>> >>>> my 7 speed. When my rear mech needs replacing I don't know what I will
>> >>>> do.
>>
>> >>>You've been misinformed.
>>
>> >>>Seven cassettes and freewheels, with both double and triple front
>> >>>changers, are current to 2008 bicycles.
>>
>> >>Then explain why I cannot buy spares.
>>
>> >>M
>>
>> >Evidently you are not looking in the right places. *Are you going to
>> >more than one shop? *There are a couple right here that can get spares
>> >if that's what you want. *Need the number????
>>
>> I have looked in local shops and on the internet. *I can get 7 speed
>> cassettes but not a front mech that properly fits my bike. Shimano no
>> longer import these into the UK AFAIK.
>>
>> Because of the frame I need a top swing mech which rules out most and
>> the tooth difference between the chainrings is smaller than usual so
>> all the mechs I have tried foul the smallest ring. *The only thing I
>> can think of doing is to mount the mech much too high, but that means
>> a poor change and the chain regularly comes off.
>>
>> I think nebraska is a bit far for me to go (several thousand miles).
>> ;-)
>>
>> M- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>What is your actual chainring setup in the front? If you're using
>nonstandard combos, you can expect problems with most modern FDs,
>which have ramps for specific transitions. Again, _nothing_ to do with
>8 vs. 7.
>
>If it's like 44-38-22 or something weird like that, mount the FD to
>serve the middle ring, since that's what the ramp is designed around.
>It may LOOK too high, but that's your own hang-up. If the chain drags
>on the small/small combo, that's another endorsement for staying out
>of the small/small.

From memory it's 42, 36, 22 and is what was on the bike when I bought
it new. I have mounted it as low as possible to avoid fouling the
smallest ring, but the chain jumps off the top ring even though the
cage almost touches the outside of the chain.

M.

[Hank]

On Jan 3, 9:09*am, Mark <i...@getlotsofspamthankstoplus.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 08:39:25 -0800 (PST), Hank <h...@wirtznet.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Jan 3, 1:13*am, Mark <i...@getlotsofspamthankstoplus.net> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 04:05:41 -0600, "Harry (Lincoln, Nebraska)"
> >> <hbroga...@NOSPAM.yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:23:41 +0000, Mark
> >> ><i...@getlotsofspamthankstoplus.net> wrote:
>
> >> >>On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:29:33 -0600, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org>
> >> >>wrote:
>
> >> >>>> Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>>> If 9-speed is what you've got and it works, then sure, why not? *But
> >> >>>>> when starting from scratch and buying everything you need, it makes
> >> >>>>> good sense from a value standpoint to use 7-speed instead of 8-, 9- or
> >> >>>>> 10-speed equipment.
>
> >> >>>Mark wrote:
> >> >>>> In some parts of the world it is almost impossible to get 7 speed
> >> >>>> spares any more (except cassettes). *I could not get a front mech for
> >> >>>> my 7 speed. When my rear mech needs replacing I don't know what I will
> >> >>>> do.
>
> >> >>>You've been misinformed.
>
> >> >>>Seven cassettes and freewheels, with both double and triple front
> >> >>>changers, are current to 2008 bicycles.
>
> >> >>Then explain why I cannot buy spares.
>
> >> >>M
>
> >> >Evidently you are not looking in the right places. *Are you going to
> >> >more than one shop? *There are a couple right here that can get spares
> >> >if that's what you want. *Need the number????
>
> >> I have looked in local shops and on the internet. *I can get 7 speed
> >> cassettes but not a front mech that properly fits my bike. Shimano no
> >> longer import these into the UK AFAIK.
>
> >> Because of the frame I need a top swing mech which rules out most and
> >> the tooth difference between the chainrings is smaller than usual so
> >> all the mechs I have tried foul the smallest ring. *The only thing I
> >> can think of doing is to mount the mech much too high, but that means
> >> a poor change and the chain regularly comes off.
>
> >> I think nebraska is a bit far for me to go (several thousand miles).
> >> ;-)
>
> >> M- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >What is your actual chainring setup in the front? If you're using
> >nonstandard combos, you can expect problems with most modern FDs,
> >which have ramps for specific transitions. Again, _nothing_ to do with
> >8 vs. 7.
>
> >If it's like 44-38-22 or something weird like that, mount the FD to
> >serve the middle ring, since that's what the ramp is designed around.
> >It may LOOK too high, but that's your own hang-up. If the chain drags
> >on the small/small combo, that's another endorsement for staying out
> >of the small/small.
>
> From memory it's 42, 36, 22 and is what was on the bike when I bought
> it new. *I have mounted it as low as possible to avoid fouling the
> smallest ring, but the chain jumps off the top ring even though the
> cage almost touches the outside of the chain.
>
> M.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Get a 32T middle ring. That should solve your problems and shouldn't
cost more than 20 quid.

I just looked at http://sjscycles.com and they have a huge selection
in every bolt circle imaginable.