What is that hub?

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

This is an 1887 Gormully & Jeffrey 50-spoke radial highwheeler:

http://timeline.route66rambler.com/1887/AFamilyInKenosha01.jpg

It seems to have _two_ handlebar levers, both going to the front spoon
brake, but what really puzzles me is that hub.

A massive drum brake? Pointless, since the pitiful spoon brake is
enough to flip the rider on his head.

A hub generator? Even Frank Krygowski would consider a magneto that
big overkill. Besides, there's no light.

A housing for some kind of internal gearing, perhaps controlled by the
second lever?

A luggage compartment?

A highwheeler aero hub?

The picture is from this 1978 car magazine article (G&J turned to
making cars), but there's nothing about the bike itself:


http://www.forum.route66rambler.com/index.php?page=A%20Family%20in%20Kenosha

The caption says that the owner is Donald Adams, but Santa hasn't
brought his book about antique bicycles yet

Elsewhere on the site is a patent drawing showing that Jeffrey knew
how to build a normal hub:

http://timeline.route66rambler.com/1882/1882PatentDrawing.jpg

Here's a Rideable Bicycles Replica highwheeler-porn page, showing
their replica of a 60 tangent-spoke G & J with single lever and normal
hub:

http://www.hiwheel.com/antique_replicas/superior.htm

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

[Werehatrack]

On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:02:03 -0700, carlfogel@comcast.net may have
said:

>This is an 1887 Gormully & Jeffrey 50-spoke radial highwheeler:
>
> http://timeline.route66rambler.com/1887/AFamilyInKenosha01.jpg
>
>It seems to have _two_ handlebar levers, both going to the front spoon
>brake, but what really puzzles me is that hub.

Maybe a warning bell? I saw a pennyfarthing with a rings-as-you-ride
hub bell once. The rider said he was glad the bike belonged to
someone else.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

[Mark]

carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> This is an 1887 Gormully & Jeffrey 50-spoke radial highwheeler:
>
> http://timeline.route66rambler.com/1887/AFamilyInKenosha01.jpg
>
> It seems to have _two_ handlebar levers, both going to the front spoon
> brake, but what really puzzles me is that hub.
>
> A massive drum brake? Pointless, since the pitiful spoon brake is
> enough to flip the rider on his head.
>
> A hub generator? Even Frank Krygowski would consider a magneto that
> big overkill. Besides, there's no light.
>
> A housing for some kind of internal gearing, perhaps controlled by the
> second lever?

I believe you got it with that last one, though I doubt the bit about
the control lever. ISTR reading about such items somewhere.

Mark J.

[frkrygow@gmail.com]

On Dec 19, 3:02 pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
> This is an 1887 Gormully & Jeffrey 50-spoke radial highwheeler:
>
> http://timeline.route66rambler.com/1887/AFamilyInKenosha01.jpg
>
> It seems to have _two_ handlebar levers, both going to the front spoon
> brake, but what really puzzles me is that hub.

Obviously, it's one of these:

http://www.goldenmotor.com/

It didn't catch on because in those days, they made batteries by
sticking nails and pennies into potatoes.

- Frank Krygowski

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:22:24 -0600, Werehatrack
<rault00@earthWEEDSlink.net> wrote:

>On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:02:03 -0700, carlfogel@comcast.net may have
>said:
>
>>This is an 1887 Gormully & Jeffrey 50-spoke radial highwheeler:
>>
>> http://timeline.route66rambler.com/1887/AFamilyInKenosha01.jpg
>>
>>It seems to have _two_ handlebar levers, both going to the front spoon
>>brake, but what really puzzles me is that hub.
>
>Maybe a warning bell? I saw a pennyfarthing with a rings-as-you-ride
>hub bell once. The rider said he was glad the bike belonged to
>someone else.

Dear Werehatrack,

I hadn't thought of a bell. Was the one that you saw anything near
that size?

Even if your automatic bell wasn't that large, I suppose it's
possible, but a thing that big would be more of a gong:


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/14/movies/13richmond.html?ex=1313208000&en=368754531c5bed6f&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Most of the bells and chimes that I've seen are modest little things.

Perhaps a hub siren?

Some examples from a bit later:


http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S=arc/ScannedLit/1919%20black%20beauty/Black+Beauty+pg+28%2Ejpg

http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/morley/31.jpg

Cheers,

J. Arthur Rank

[Werehatrack]

On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:55:53 -0700, carlfogel@comcast.net may have
said:

>On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:22:24 -0600, Werehatrack
><rault00@earthWEEDSlink.net> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:02:03 -0700, carlfogel@comcast.net may have
>>said:
>>
>>>This is an 1887 Gormully & Jeffrey 50-spoke radial highwheeler:
>>>
>>> http://timeline.route66rambler.com/1887/AFamilyInKenosha01.jpg
>>>
>>>It seems to have _two_ handlebar levers, both going to the front spoon
>>>brake, but what really puzzles me is that hub.
>>
>>Maybe a warning bell? I saw a pennyfarthing with a rings-as-you-ride
>>hub bell once. The rider said he was glad the bike belonged to
>>someone else.
>
>Dear Werehatrack,
>
>I hadn't thought of a bell. Was the one that you saw anything near
>that size?

No; it was about the size of a typical drum brake. It rang about
twice per wheel rev.

>Even if your automatic bell wasn't that large, I suppose it's
>possible, but a thing that big would be more of a gong:
>
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/14/movies/13richmond.html?ex=1313208000&en=368754531c5bed6f&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
>
>Most of the bells and chimes that I've seen are modest little things.
>
>Perhaps a hub siren?

Unlikely, since that would need to be interconnected between the axle
and hub for positive drive.

Your mystery hub may have just been a big empty thing, too, whose only
function was to be bright and shiny.


--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:10:29 -0800, Mark
<remove.mandmlj.this@remove.comcast.this.net> wrote:

>carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>> This is an 1887 Gormully & Jeffrey 50-spoke radial highwheeler:
>>
>> http://timeline.route66rambler.com/1887/AFamilyInKenosha01.jpg
>>
>> It seems to have _two_ handlebar levers, both going to the front spoon
>> brake, but what really puzzles me is that hub.
>>
>> A massive drum brake? Pointless, since the pitiful spoon brake is
>> enough to flip the rider on his head.
>>
>> A hub generator? Even Frank Krygowski would consider a magneto that
>> big overkill. Besides, there's no light.
>>
>> A housing for some kind of internal gearing, perhaps controlled by the
>> second lever?
>
>I believe you got it with that last one, though I doubt the bit about
>the control lever. ISTR reading about such items somewhere.
>
>Mark J.

Dear Mark,

I've seen a lot of odd gearing contraptions, so this may be just a
well-concealed one.

But two things argue against that.

First, Gormully & Jeffrey made mainstream classic highwheelers. So
far, I haven't found any oddly geared G & J highwheelers--they just
said to hell with it and switched to making safety bicycles instead of
trying to improve dead technology. I'd expect at least an ad for the
new wonder gearing from such a big manufacturer.

Second, it's a full-size highwheeler with a classic seat position.
Highwheelers with oddball gearing usually use the gearing to allow a
smaller wheel to go as fast, or else to put a seat put further back to
reduce the likelihood of a header.

On the other hand, what the hell else can it be? I can't think of
anything else that seems more plausible than a gearing cover. Maybe
some ur-Rohloff is lurking in there.

As for the control levers, I'm just as baffled by them as by the hub.
There just isn't any spoon brake on the rear.

Maybe they're the first dual front spoon brake setup that I've ever
seen, but it's hard to see why you'd need two--a single monster lever
will let anyone pitch themselves over the handlebar with a careless
squeeze. Perhaps the idea was convenient braking with either hand? I
can't see any sign of a control linkage going down to that huge hub.

Just the size of the hub is puzzling. An old drum brake road
motorcycle would be proud to sport a hub that big. Whatever it is, it
seems to be nicely polished.

Here's a picture of what _might_ be a hub geared normal-size
highwheeler, the one on the right with the cranks not opposed:

http://www.oldbike.com/Photo%20Gallery/bikers.jpg

The odd cranks _may_ have moved up and down behind the axle, like
treadles, instead of round and round like normal cranks, allowing a
more rearward seating position. There are some kind of doohickeys
apparently restricting the upward movement of each crank. But the
space occupied by the huge hub-thing in this thread is empty space
that picture.

Maybe the Adams book will arrive soon and clear up the mystery.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

[Werehatrack]

On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:09:16 -0800 (PST), frkrygow@gmail.com may have
said:

>On Dec 19, 3:02 pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
>> This is an 1887 Gormully & Jeffrey 50-spoke radial highwheeler:
>>
>> http://timeline.route66rambler.com/1887/AFamilyInKenosha01.jpg
>>
>> It seems to have _two_ handlebar levers, both going to the front spoon
>> brake, but what really puzzles me is that hub.
>
>Obviously, it's one of these:
>
>http://www.goldenmotor.com/
>
>It didn't catch on because in those days, they made batteries by
>sticking nails and pennies into potatoes.

Herr Dr (h.c.) Ferdinand Porsche would have been annoyed if that's
what it was, since he patented hub-mounted electric propulsion motors
prior to WWII. (ISTR that it was a basic patent.)

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

[pureheart@pacbell.net]

I forwarded the top of this thread to my friend who is a member of
*The Wheelmen*.
He does not do Usenet (and I have not pressed him on the issue...even
though his knowledge of the Highwheel world would be quite useful when
the topic pops up).
Here's his comment on the hub:

BEGIN QUOTE
I didn't even have to see the photo; when I saw the description was
of Don Adam's G&J, I knew it must be his extremely rare 2-speed
highwheel. Yes, it is a two speed in spite of what some of the posts
say. One handlebar lever controlled the hub, the other was the very
necessary brake because the darn thing freewheels.

Adam's book describes it as such, and there's a photo (a different
photo) of it in his book.
END QUOTE

Pureheart
Aptos, CA

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article
<43496554-e546-4ac7-af2e-fe42d0c26536@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
pureheart@pacbell.net wrote:

> I forwarded the top of this thread to my friend who is a member of
> *The Wheelmen*.
> He does not do Usenet (and I have not pressed him on the issue...even
> though his knowledge of the Highwheel world would be quite useful when
> the topic pops up).
> Here's his comment on the hub:
>
> BEGIN QUOTE
> I didn't even have to see the photo; when I saw the description was
> of Don Adam's G&J, I knew it must be his extremely rare 2-speed
> highwheel. Yes, it is a two speed in spite of what some of the posts
> say. One handlebar lever controlled the hub, the other was the very
> necessary brake because the darn thing freewheels.
>
> Adam's book describes it as such, and there's a photo (a different
> photo) of it in his book.
> END QUOTE

Oh dear. This sort of thing is just like baiting poor dear Carl. Did you
mean it as some sort of white-elephant Christmas gift to him?

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 01:37:29 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
wrote:

>In article
><43496554-e546-4ac7-af2e-fe42d0c26536@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> pureheart@pacbell.net wrote:
>
>> I forwarded the top of this thread to my friend who is a member of
>> *The Wheelmen*.
>> He does not do Usenet (and I have not pressed him on the issue...even
>> though his knowledge of the Highwheel world would be quite useful when
>> the topic pops up).
>> Here's his comment on the hub:
>>
>> BEGIN QUOTE
>> I didn't even have to see the photo; when I saw the description was
>> of Don Adam's G&J, I knew it must be his extremely rare 2-speed
>> highwheel. Yes, it is a two speed in spite of what some of the posts
>> say. One handlebar lever controlled the hub, the other was the very
>> necessary brake because the darn thing freewheels.
>>
>> Adam's book describes it as such, and there's a photo (a different
>> photo) of it in his book.
>> END QUOTE
>
>Oh dear. This sort of thing is just like baiting poor dear Carl. Did you
>mean it as some sort of white-elephant Christmas gift to him?

Dear Ryan & Pureheart,

That's odd, I just finished scanning a dozen or so pictures from a
book that arrived this afternoon, and I didn't see--

Er, never mind.

It isn't in the index, it's hard to recognize from that angle, and I
leafed right past the caption:
http://i17.tinypic.com/7wpek43.jpg

So thanks for making me go back and look for it.

I wonder if the 2-speed freewheeling Simonds Gear Co. hub came
standard with the American Ideal highwheeler as original equipment or
if it was an add-on?

Again, thanks for taking the trouble to look into the mystery and
clear it up. Please thank your friend for me, too.

(And if that's baiting me, I love it. As Mr. Dooley might say in his
brogue, go ahead and bait me with it!)

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

[M-gineering]

carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:

>
> I wonder if the 2-speed freewheeling Simonds Gear Co. hub came
> standard with the American Ideal highwheeler as original equipment or
> if it was an add-on?
>

You could always retrofit one without freewheel ;) :
http://www.schlumpf.ch/bilder/g_uni_eigener.rahmen.2.jpg

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <8jv0n3hpks8ivq2tfi378jq8irl43j3eeq@4ax.com>,
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:

> On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 01:37:29 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >In article
> ><43496554-e546-4ac7-af2e-fe42d0c26536@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> > pureheart@pacbell.net wrote:
> >
> >> I forwarded the top of this thread to my friend who is a member of
> >> *The Wheelmen*.
> >> He does not do Usenet (and I have not pressed him on the issue...even
> >> though his knowledge of the Highwheel world would be quite useful when
> >> the topic pops up).
> >> Here's his comment on the hub:
> >>
> >> BEGIN QUOTE
> >> I didn't even have to see the photo; when I saw the description was
> >> of Don Adam's G&J, I knew it must be his extremely rare 2-speed
> >> highwheel. Yes, it is a two speed in spite of what some of the posts
> >> say. One handlebar lever controlled the hub, the other was the very
> >> necessary brake because the darn thing freewheels.
> >>
> >> Adam's book describes it as such, and there's a photo (a different
> >> photo) of it in his book.
> >> END QUOTE
> >
> >Oh dear. This sort of thing is just like baiting poor dear Carl. Did you
> >mean it as some sort of white-elephant Christmas gift to him?
>
> Dear Ryan & Pureheart,
>
> That's odd, I just finished scanning a dozen or so pictures from a
> book that arrived this afternoon, and I didn't see--
>
> Er, never mind.
>
> It isn't in the index, it's hard to recognize from that angle, and I
> leafed right past the caption:
> http://i17.tinypic.com/7wpek43.jpg
>
> So thanks for making me go back and look for it.
>
> I wonder if the 2-speed freewheeling Simonds Gear Co. hub came
> standard with the American Ideal highwheeler as original equipment or
> if it was an add-on?
>
> Again, thanks for taking the trouble to look into the mystery and
> clear it up. Please thank your friend for me, too.
>
> (And if that's baiting me, I love it. As Mr. Dooley might say in his
> brogue, go ahead and bait me with it!)

I'm sure we'll find new ways to toss you into the briar patch soon
enough. In the meantime, how big is your collection of cycling books at
this point? Is it starting to push other things out of your house?

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <fkqg0k$k3r$1@localhost.localdomain>,
M-gineering <ikmotgeenspam@m-gineering.nl> wrote:

> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>
> >
> > I wonder if the 2-speed freewheeling Simonds Gear Co. hub came
> > standard with the American Ideal highwheeler as original equipment or
> > if it was an add-on?
> >
>
> You could always retrofit one without freewheel ;) :
> http://www.schlumpf.ch/bilder/g_uni_eigener.rahmen.2.jpg

Schumpf unicycles! Such a natural application.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

[Chalo]

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>
> M-gineering wrote:
>
> > You could always retrofit one without freewheel ;) :
> >http://www.schlumpf.ch/bilder/g_uni_eigener.rahmen.2.jpg
>
> Schumpf unicycles! Such a natural application.

How cleverly absurd of you to use "unicycles" and "natural" in the
same breath!

Chalo

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 19:41:34 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca>
wrote:

>I'm sure we'll find new ways to toss you into the briar patch soon
>enough. In the meantime, how big is your collection of cycling books at
>this point? Is it starting to push other things out of your house?

Dear Ryan,

Bicycle books take up scarcely as much room on my shelves as Anthony
Trollope or P.G. Wodehouse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Trollope#Works

http://www.pgwodehousebooks.com/simplebiblio.htm

:-)

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article
<9aafc844-981e-4ce6-96ce-2ee427cd4dff@l6g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> >
> > M-gineering wrote:
> >
> > > You could always retrofit one without freewheel ;) :
> > >http://www.schlumpf.ch/bilder/g_uni_eigener.rahmen.2.jpg
> >
> > Schumpf unicycles! Such a natural application.
>
> How cleverly absurd of you to use "unicycles" and "natural" in the
> same breath!
>
> Chalo

Well, it's a natural application, but an unnatural object.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

[Tom Sherman]

Chalo Colina wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>> M-gineering wrote:
>>
>>> You could always retrofit one without freewheel ;) :
>>> http://www.schlumpf.ch/bilder/g_uni_eigener.rahmen.2.jpg
>> Schumpf unicycles! Such a natural application.
>
> How cleverly absurd of you to use "unicycles" and "natural" in the
> same breath!

Chalo will be sure to build one of these [1] unicycles! ;)

[1] <http://www.unicycling.com/garage/recumben.htm>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
POST FREE OR DIE!

[Michael Press]

In article
<9aafc844-981e-4ce6-96ce-2ee427cd4dff@l6g2000prm.google
groups.com>,
Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> >
> > M-gineering wrote:
> >
> > > You could always retrofit one without freewheel ;) :
> > >http://www.schlumpf.ch/bilder/g_uni_eigener.rahmen.2.jpg
> >
> > Schumpf unicycles! Such a natural application.
>
> How cleverly absurd of you to use "unicycles" and "natural" in the
> same breath!

<http://www.devilstick.org/~jbarlow/juggling/impossible.html>

--
Michael Press

[Tom Sherman]

Michael Press wrote:
>
> <http://www.devilstick.org/~jbarlow/juggling/impossible.html>
>
How does a wheel have an "axel"? And where does one find a "cement"
floor? The website author must be one of those "South of Green" [1] LAS
[2] types!

[1] The real students take classes North of Green Street.
[2] Liberal Arts and Sciences.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
POST FREE OR DIE!