Campy Gran Sport Cranks and Chainrings

[* * Chas]

Did Campy ever make a Gran Sport Crankset that used 110mm BCD chainrings?

Supposedly Campy briefly made some Gran Sport cranks that used 116mm BCD
chainring that interchanged with Victory and Triomphe cranks but I've
never seen one or even a catalog listing for these.

Back in the day I just ignored Gran Sport components but now I'm trying to
find some info for a project.

I'm familiar with the 3 arm cranks with riveted inner chainrings and steel
or alloy crankarms plus the Cheap NR style GS cranks with 144mm BCD
chainrings but not the others.

Chas.

[David L. Johnson]

* * Chas wrote:
> Did Campy ever make a Gran Sport Crankset that used 110mm BCD chainrings?
>
> Supposedly Campy briefly made some Gran Sport cranks that used 116mm BCD
> chainring that interchanged with Victory and Triomphe cranks but I've
> never seen one or even a catalog listing for these.

I'm confused. I recall the Gran Sport derailleurs as being older than
NR, maybe early '60s. OTOH Victory and Triumph was around 1985 or so.

Ah, but Google comes through again. Nice-looking cranks.
http://www.campyonly.com/history/timeline.html Scroll to 1973 --- much
later than the GS derailleurs. Oddly, the '73 catalogue rear derailleur
looks little like the early GS derailleur, but the front is the same as
what I had in the very early '60s.

--

David L. Johnson

And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries,
and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove
mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. [1 Corinth. 13:2]

[still just me]

On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 21:06:33 -0800, "* * Chas"
<verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com> wrote:

>Did Campy ever make a Gran Sport Crankset that used 110mm BCD chainrings?
>
>Supposedly Campy briefly made some Gran Sport cranks that used 116mm BCD
>chainring that interchanged with Victory and Triomphe cranks but I've
>never seen one or even a catalog listing for these.
>
>Back in the day I just ignored Gran Sport components but now I'm trying to
>find some info for a project.
>
>I'm familiar with the 3 arm cranks with riveted inner chainrings and steel
>or alloy crankarms plus the Cheap NR style GS cranks with 144mm BCD
>chainrings but not the others.
>

Chas:

I had one of the alloy GS cranks from a late 70's Raleigh. It was
definitely not 116 as the rings did not interchange with my 116 TA's.
Seems to me it was a much larger diameter BCD but it's been quite a
while since I had it.

[James Thomson]

"* * Chas" <verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com> a écrit:

> Did Campy ever make a Gran Sport Crankset that used
> 110mm BCD chainrings?

Not as far as I know.

> Supposedly Campy briefly made some Gran Sport cranks
> that used 116mm BCD chainring that interchanged with
> Victory and Triomphe cranks but I've never seen one or
> even a catalog listing for these.

Have a look here:

http://www.campyonly.com/history/catalogs/1982_olympic_catalog.pdf

That's a 3MB pdf of a 1982 catalogue. Gran Sport double and triple 116mm
5-bolt cranks are listed. I haven't seen one in the flesh.

James Thomson

[A Muzi]

* * Chas wrote:
> Did Campy ever make a Gran Sport Crankset that used 110mm BCD chainrings?
> Supposedly Campy briefly made some Gran Sport cranks that used 116mm BCD
> chainring that interchanged with Victory and Triomphe cranks but I've
> never seen one or even a catalog listing for these.
> Back in the day I just ignored Gran Sport components but now I'm trying to
> find some info for a project.
> I'm familiar with the 3 arm cranks with riveted inner chainrings and steel
> or alloy crankarms plus the Cheap NR style GS cranks with 144mm BCD
> chainrings but not the others.

Their first GS crank was a square taper forged steel chromed crank,
3-pin (elegant appearance, not as heavy as it sounds). Later 3-pin
aluminum arms. The 1982 book shows GS 5-bolt aluminum with 144mm rings
(GS 'road') and a final 116mm version triple (GS 'tour').

I believe you may have meant one of the 110mm (Olympus, Euclid, Contax,
Icarus?) 'offroad' cranks, I don't recall a GS in a 110mm format.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[James Thomson]

"* * Chas" <verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com> a écrit:

> Supposedly Campy briefly made some Gran Sport cranks that used
> 116mm BCD chainring that interchanged with Victory and Triomphe
> cranks but I've never seen one or even a catalog listing for these.

Here's one (cranks only, no rings) on eBay in the Netherlands. No connection
to seller, etc.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280194100296

James Thomson

[* * Chas]

"David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh.edu> wrote in message
news:xZSdnT_s2p74ORDanZ2dnUVZ_rSrnZ2d@ptd.net...
> * * Chas wrote:
> > Did Campy ever make a Gran Sport Crankset that used 110mm BCD
chainrings?
> >
> > Supposedly Campy briefly made some Gran Sport cranks that used 116mm
BCD
> > chainring that interchanged with Victory and Triomphe cranks but I've
> > never seen one or even a catalog listing for these.
>
> I'm confused. I recall the Gran Sport derailleurs as being older than
> NR, maybe early '60s. OTOH Victory and Triumph was around 1985 or so.
>
> Ah, but Google comes through again. Nice-looking cranks.
> http://www.campyonly.com/history/timeline.html Scroll to 1973 --- much
> later than the GS derailleurs. Oddly, the '73 catalogue rear derailleur
> looks little like the early GS derailleur, but the front is the same as
> what I had in the very early '60s.
>
> --
>
> David L. Johnson
>
Campy recycled some of their component model names like Record and Gran
Sport over and over without any logic.

In 1973 they cobbled together their Gran Sport gruppo out of existing
components. The gruppo included a 3 arm steel cotterless crankset with a
cheap BB, Nuovo Tipo hubs, their Pista track headset, the old Valentino
piston style front derailleur, cheap shift levers and an extremely ugly,
cheap version of the Nuovo Record rear derailleur plus misc. little parts.

This gruppo was designed to go on mid range bikes. Fortunately because of
component demands and chronic shortages during the 1971 - 74 bike boom,
Campy probably wasn't able to provide many of these crappy sets.

In the late 70s they rounded out the gruppo with cheap versions of the
Record front derailleur, seatpost, 5 arm Record crankset and pedals. This
was an attempt to compete against Shimano and Suntour for the midrange OEM
bike market.

Raleigh used some of the stuff on their Competition GS model and several
smaller Brit bike producers followed suit. A number of other bike mfg..
did the same thing for the European market but by that time most mid range
bikes coming into the US had Japanese components.

In the early 80s Campy brought out their Triomphe and Victory gruppos to
replace the Gran Sport and Nuovo Record gruppos and also to go after the
midrange OEM market controlled by the Japanese component makers.

Neither of those gruppos were very successful because Campy kept flooding
the European OEM market with cheap Nuovo Record gruppos throughout the
first half of the 80s.

Campy continued producing their crappy Velox rear derailleur up until 1974
and even worse the sold their cheap Valentino RDs from 1969 until 1985.
What were they thinking?

Chas.

[A Muzi]

> * * Chas wrote:
>> Did Campy ever make a Gran Sport Crankset that used 110mm BCD chainrings?
>> Supposedly Campy briefly made some Gran Sport cranks that used 116mm BCD
>> chainring that interchanged with Victory and Triomphe cranks but I've
>> never seen one or even a catalog listing for these.

David L. Johnson wrote:
> I'm confused. I recall the Gran Sport derailleurs as being older than
> NR, maybe early '60s. OTOH Victory and Triumph was around 1985 or so.
> Ah, but Google comes through again. Nice-looking cranks.
> http://www.campyonly.com/history/timeline.html Scroll to 1973 --- much
> later than the GS derailleurs. Oddly, the '73 catalogue rear derailleur
> looks little like the early GS derailleur, but the front is the same as
> what I had in the very early '60s.

You're right, the name was used twice. Yes bronze-body Gran Sport
changers were before Record. Then the later New Gran Sport which became
Gran Sport in several iterations, '70s and '80s.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[* * Chas]

"still just me" <wheeledBobNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mq4so3dq66au01fa3v18bd7md9rv6o9cmv@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 21:06:33 -0800, "* * Chas"
> <verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
>
> >Did Campy ever make a Gran Sport Crankset that used 110mm BCD
chainrings?
> >
> >Supposedly Campy briefly made some Gran Sport cranks that used 116mm
BCD
> >chainring that interchanged with Victory and Triomphe cranks but I've
> >never seen one or even a catalog listing for these.
> >
> >Back in the day I just ignored Gran Sport components but now I'm trying
to
> >find some info for a project.
> >
> >I'm familiar with the 3 arm cranks with riveted inner chainrings and
steel
> >or alloy crankarms plus the Cheap NR style GS cranks with 144mm BCD
> >chainrings but not the others.
> >
>
> Chas:
>
> I had one of the alloy GS cranks from a late 70's Raleigh. It was
> definitely not 116 as the rings did not interchange with my 116 TA's.
> Seems to me it was a much larger diameter BCD but it's been quite a
> while since I had it.
>

Here's a link that shows some Raleigh Competitions from the 1970s. The
Competition GS used the alloy version of the 3 arm Gran Sport cranks with
the chainrings riveted together.

http://retroraleighs.com/competition.html

There's a later version 5 arm Gran Sport that I think uses the 144mm BCD
size chainrings as Campy (Nuovo)Record/Super Record cranks.

Chas.

[* * Chas]

"James Thomson" <yosnappyj@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:478e57ba$0$838$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...
> "* * Chas" <verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com> a écrit:
>
> > Did Campy ever make a Gran Sport Crankset that used
> > 110mm BCD chainrings?
>
> Not as far as I know.
>
> > Supposedly Campy briefly made some Gran Sport cranks
> > that used 116mm BCD chainring that interchanged with
> > Victory and Triomphe cranks but I've never seen one or
> > even a catalog listing for these.
>
> Have a look here:
>
> http://www.campyonly.com/history/catalogs/1982_olympic_catalog.pdf
>
> That's a 3MB pdf of a 1982 catalogue. Gran Sport double and triple 116mm
> 5-bolt cranks are listed. I haven't seen one in the flesh.
>
> James Thomson
>

It looks like only the GS Touring Triple cranks used the 116mm BCD
chainrings, 35T to 53T. I'd never seen that before.

The GS Road cranks take 42T to 57T chainrings so they're probably 144mm
BCD.

Thanks for the sharp eyes.

Chas.

[James Thomson]

"* * Chas" <verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com> a écrit:

> It looks like only the GS Touring Triple cranks used the
> 116mm BCD chainrings, 35T to 53T.

Scroll down to page 26. There's a picture of a 116mm 5-bolt GS touring road
double, model number 0305. The triple is 0306.

> The GS Road cranks take 42T to 57T chainrings so they're
> probably 144mm BCD.

Right.

James Thomson

[* * Chas]

"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
news:13othmjj5t9bdd7@corp.supernews.com...
> * * Chas wrote:
> > Did Campy ever make a Gran Sport Crankset that used 110mm BCD
chainrings?
> > Supposedly Campy briefly made some Gran Sport cranks that used 116mm
BCD
> > chainring that interchanged with Victory and Triomphe cranks but I've
> > never seen one or even a catalog listing for these.
> > Back in the day I just ignored Gran Sport components but now I'm
trying to
> > find some info for a project.
> > I'm familiar with the 3 arm cranks with riveted inner chainrings and
steel
> > or alloy crankarms plus the Cheap NR style GS cranks with 144mm BCD
> > chainrings but not the others.
>
> Their first GS crank was a square taper forged steel chromed crank,
> 3-pin (elegant appearance, not as heavy as it sounds). Later 3-pin
> aluminum arms. The 1982 book shows GS 5-bolt aluminum with 144mm rings
> (GS 'road') and a final 116mm version triple (GS 'tour').
>
> I believe you may have meant one of the 110mm (Olympus, Euclid, Contax,
> Icarus?) 'offroad' cranks, I don't recall a GS in a 110mm format.
> --
> Andrew Muzi

Someone was selling an NOS 36T Campy Gran Sport chainring on eBay. They
said it was 110 BCD.

The Campy chainring bag said "INGRANNAGGIO: GRAN SPORT 36D".

Judging for the picture of the chainring I thought that it was a 116 BCD.

Chas.

[* * Chas]

"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
news:13othmjj5t9bdd7@corp.supernews.com...
> * * Chas wrote:
> > Did Campy ever make a Gran Sport Crankset that used 110mm BCD
chainrings?
> > Supposedly Campy briefly made some Gran Sport cranks that used 116mm
BCD
> > chainring that interchanged with Victory and Triomphe cranks but I've
> > never seen one or even a catalog listing for these.
> > Back in the day I just ignored Gran Sport components but now I'm
trying to
> > find some info for a project.
> > I'm familiar with the 3 arm cranks with riveted inner chainrings and
steel
> > or alloy crankarms plus the Cheap NR style GS cranks with 144mm BCD
> > chainrings but not the others.
>
> Their first GS crank was a square taper forged steel chromed crank,
> 3-pin (elegant appearance, not as heavy as it sounds). Later 3-pin
> aluminum arms. The 1982 book shows GS 5-bolt aluminum with 144mm rings
> (GS 'road') and a final 116mm version triple (GS 'tour').
>
> I believe you may have meant one of the 110mm (Olympus, Euclid, Contax,
> Icarus?) 'offroad' cranks, I don't recall a GS in a 110mm format.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Thanks everyone for the info.

I lucked out and got a pair of Campy 36T 116mm BCD chainrings. The
lettering on the bag was so faded that 116 looked like 110. Looking at the
picture in the auction, I could tell that the BCD was bigger than 110mm.

Now if I could only find some 116mm 50T chainrings.

Chas.

[A Muzi]

>> * * Chas wrote:
>>> Did Campy ever make a Gran Sport Crankset that used 110mm BCD
> chainrings?
>>> Supposedly Campy briefly made some Gran Sport cranks that used 116mm
> BCD
>>> chainring that interchanged with Victory and Triomphe cranks but I've
>>> never seen one or even a catalog listing for these.
>>> Back in the day I just ignored Gran Sport components but now I'm
> trying to
>>> find some info for a project.
>>> I'm familiar with the 3 arm cranks with riveted inner chainrings and
> steel
>>> or alloy crankarms plus the Cheap NR style GS cranks with 144mm BCD
>>> chainrings but not the others.

> "A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote
>> Their first GS crank was a square taper forged steel chromed crank,
>> 3-pin (elegant appearance, not as heavy as it sounds). Later 3-pin
>> aluminum arms. The 1982 book shows GS 5-bolt aluminum with 144mm rings
>> (GS 'road') and a final 116mm version triple (GS 'tour').
>> I believe you may have meant one of the 110mm (Olympus, Euclid, Contax,
>> Icarus?) 'offroad' cranks, I don't recall a GS in a 110mm format.

* * Chas wrote:
> Someone was selling an NOS 36T Campy Gran Sport chainring on eBay. They
> said it was 110 BCD.
> The Campy chainring bag said "INGRANNAGGIO: GRAN SPORT 36D".
> Judging for the picture of the chainring I thought that it was a 116 BCD.

On a 36t 116, the chainring bolt holes are just at the limit. On a 110
there's still material between bolt hole and tooth root (34t capacity).
Campagnolo has never AFAIK printed diameter on their chainring packages,
merely 'ingrannaggio (chainring); model; ## denti (teeth)'.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[David L. Johnson]

A Muzi wrote:

> On a 36t 116, the chainring bolt holes are just at the limit.

Not quite. My Victory cranks had a 35 inner ring.

--

David L. Johnson

Some people used to claim that, if enough monkeys sat in front of
enough typewriters and typed long enough, eventually one of them would
reproduce the collected works of Shakespeare. The internet has
proven this not to be the case.

[* * Chas]

"David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh.edu> wrote in message
news:w4qdnbmYOva14AzanZ2dnUVZ_sDinZ2d@ptd.net...
> A Muzi wrote:
>
> > On a 36t 116, the chainring bolt holes are just at the limit.
>
> Not quite. My Victory cranks had a 35 inner ring.
>
> --
>
> David L. Johnson

Never say never about cycling components. I have a Campy 41T 144mm BCD
Nuovo Record chainring. The smallest was supposed to be 42T.

I also have a 37T Stronglight 122mm BCD chainring for 49, 93, 105 and
other models; 38T was supposed to be the smallest size for those cranks.

Campy listed 116mm BCD chainrings for Victory, Triomphe and a few Gran
Sport cranks as being available in 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 50,
51, 52, 53 teeth.

I found a stack of unmarked 116mm BCD 39T chainrings. The webs where the
bolt holes are located are not quite the same as Campy rings but the bolt
circles fit perfect.

Chas.

[* * Chas]

"James Thomson" <yosnappyj@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:47944d12$0$31107$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-05.noos.net...
> "* * Chas" <verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com> a écrit:
>
> > Supposedly Campy briefly made some Gran Sport cranks that used
> > 116mm BCD chainring that interchanged with Victory and Triomphe
> > cranks but I've never seen one or even a catalog listing for these.
>
> Here's one (cranks only, no rings) on eBay in the Netherlands. No
connection
> to seller, etc.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280194100296
>
> James Thomson
>

They looked like the standard !44mm BCD cranks. I emailed the seller and
he says that they take the 116mm Touring chainrings.

Chas.

[James Thomson]

"* * Chas" <verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com> a écrit:

> "James Thomson" <yosnappyj@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> Here's one (cranks only, no rings) on eBay in the
>> Netherlands. No connection to seller, etc.

>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280194100296

>They looked like the standard 144mm BCD cranks.

If the difference isn't obvious from the proportions of the spider, compare
the intersection of the bolt circle with the "vanity groove" of the arm. The
picture on the box shows the 144mm model.

James Thomson

[* * Chas]

"James Thomson" <yosnappyj@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4799b65b$0$21533$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-06.noos.net...
> "* * Chas" <verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com> a écrit:
>
> > "James Thomson" <yosnappyj@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Here's one (cranks only, no rings) on eBay in the
> >> Netherlands. No connection to seller, etc.
>
> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280194100296
>
> >They looked like the standard 144mm BCD cranks.
>
> If the difference isn't obvious from the proportions of the spider,
compare
> the intersection of the bolt circle with the "vanity groove" of the arm.
The
> picture on the box shows the 144mm model.
>
> James Thomson
>

Good eye. Now I know what to look for. I can spot the difference between
the old Record 151 BCD and 144 BCD cranks from 10 feet away, same thing
with Victory and triomphe cranks.

I tended to ignore GS stuff back in the day - the derailleurs were so ugly
and so on. Why put your name on crap!

Chas.

[Tom Sherman]

* * Chas wrote:
> ...Why put your name on crap!
>
These people do: <http://www.milorganite.com/home/>! ;)

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

[still just me]

On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 02:55:12 -0800, "* * Chas"
<verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com> wrote:

>I tended to ignore GS stuff back in the day - the derailleurs were so ugly
>and so on. Why put your name on crap!

That's not half bad... what was that POS steel thing they threw on
cheapo Italian bikes back in the boom?

My first experience with Campy as a kid was with one of those, I still
remember thinking "if this is what they build, what's all the fuss
about Campy?"

[* * Chas]

"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fnfoem$5ij$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> * * Chas wrote:
> > ...Why put your name on crap!
> >
> These people do: <http://www.milorganite.com/home/>! ;)
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> "And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
> - A. Derleth

"Why... why it's a bag of sh*t...!" "Yes... but it's good sh*t..."
Firesign Theater ca 1969

Chas.

[Michael Press]

In article <mO-dnfmdtLzZ-gbanZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"* * Chas" <verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com> wrote:

> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fnfoem$5ij$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> > * * Chas wrote:
> > > ...Why put your name on crap!
> > >
> > These people do: <http://www.milorganite.com/home/>! ;)
> >
> > --
> > Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> > "And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
> > - A. Derleth
>
> "Why... why it's a bag of sh*t...!" "Yes... but it's good sh*t..."
> Firesign Theater ca 1969

"How did you get in Rococo, you don't have a key."
"No only half a key. I had to split it with the sound man."

--
Michael Press

[* * Chas]

"Michael Press" <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:rubrum-30887B.16320026012008@news.sf.sbcglobal.net...
> In article <mO-dnfmdtLzZ-gbanZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
> "* * Chas" <verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
>
> > "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:fnfoem$5ij$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> > > * * Chas wrote:
> > > > ...Why put your name on crap!
> > > >
> > > These people do: <http://www.milorganite.com/home/>! ;)
> > >
> > > --
> > > Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> > > "And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
> > > - A. Derleth
> >
> > "Why... why it's a bag of sh*t...!" "Yes... but it's good sh*t..."
> > Firesign Theater ca 1969
>
> "How did you get in Rococo, you don't have a key."
> "No only half a key. I had to split it with the sound man."
>
> --
> Michael Press

"Far out, Catherwood. Just roll a couple of bombers and leave them on the
side table."

Chas.

[Jay Beattie]

On Jan 26, 7:54*pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> "Michael Press" <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>
> news:rubrum-30887B.16320026012008@news.sf.sbcglobal.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <mO-dnfmdtLzZ-gbanZ2dnUVZ_jWdn...@comcast.com>,
> > *"* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
>
> > > "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> > >news:fnfoem$5ij$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> > > > * * Chas wrote:
> > > > > ...Why put your name on crap!
>
> > > > These people do: <http://www.milorganite.com/home/>! ;)
>
> > > > --
> > > > Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> > > > "And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
> > > > - A. Derleth
>
> > > "Why... why it's a bag of sh*t...!" * "Yes... but it's good sh*t..."
> > > Firesign Theater ca 1969
>
> > "How did you get in Rococo, you don't have a key."
> > "No only half a key. I had to split it with the sound man."
>
> > --
> > Michael Press
>
> "Far out, Catherwood. Just roll a couple of bombers and leave them on the
> side table."

Keep going, then I won't have to re-buy my Nick Danger album!
Firesign Theater was funny and smart. I think "Don't Crush that Dwarf"
alluded to Nietzsche, James Joyce, Huxley and Marshall McLuhan in the
same track. You could listen to the same bit while in high school and
laugh, and then listen three years later (after some history,
philosphy and lit classes) and laugh harder. It was so layered, unlike
the four letter spew we call comedy today. -- Jay Beattie.

[* * Chas]

"Jay Beattie" <jbeattie@lindsayhart.com> wrote in message
news:cfc1f945-959b-4d25-ac50-52dd7ec69a70@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 26, 7:54 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> "Michael Press" <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>
> news:rubrum-30887B.16320026012008@news.sf.sbcglobal.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <mO-dnfmdtLzZ-gbanZ2dnUVZ_jWdn...@comcast.com>,
> > "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
>
> > > "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> > >news:fnfoem$5ij$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> > > > * * Chas wrote:
> > > > > ...Why put your name on crap!
>
> > > > These people do: <http://www.milorganite.com/home/>! ;)
>
> > > > --
> > > > Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> > > > "And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
> > > > - A. Derleth
>
> > > "Why... why it's a bag of sh*t...!" "Yes... but it's good sh*t..."
> > > Firesign Theater ca 1969
>
> > "How did you get in Rococo, you don't have a key."
> > "No only half a key. I had to split it with the sound man."
>
> > --
> > Michael Press
>
> "Far out, Catherwood. Just roll a couple of bombers and leave them on
the
> side table."

Keep going, then I won't have to re-buy my Nick Danger album!
Firesign Theater was funny and smart. I think "Don't Crush that Dwarf"
alluded to Nietzsche, James Joyce, Huxley and Marshall McLuhan in the
same track. You could listen to the same bit while in high school and
laugh, and then listen three years later (after some history,
philosphy and lit classes) and laugh harder. It was so layered, unlike
the four letter spew we call comedy today. -- Jay Beattie.

www.theatreofthemindless.com/TOTM/SCRIPTS/NickDanger.doc

Chas.

[A Muzi]

> "* * Chas" <verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
>> I tended to ignore GS stuff back in the day - the derailleurs were so ugly
>> and so on. Why put your name on crap!

still just me wrote:
> That's not half bad... what was that POS steel thing they threw on
> cheapo Italian bikes back in the boom?
> My first experience with Campy as a kid was with one of those, I still
> remember thinking "if this is what they build, what's all the fuss
> about Campy?"

Perhaps you're referring to that boat anchor rear changer, "Gran Turismo"?
http://re3.mm-a2.yimg.com/image/2415819558

Or a Campagnolo "Velox"?
http://sp1.mm-a1.yimg.com/image/2156809372

Yecch.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[* * Chas]

"still just me" <wheeledBobNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1aupp31bb4ut441db874gs69lriqhg2vgc@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 02:55:12 -0800, "* * Chas"
> <verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
>
> >I tended to ignore GS stuff back in the day - the derailleurs were so
ugly
> >and so on. Why put your name on crap!
>
> That's not half bad... what was that POS steel thing they threw on
> cheapo Italian bikes back in the boom?
>
> My first experience with Campy as a kid was with one of those, I still
> remember thinking "if this is what they build, what's all the fuss
> about Campy?"
>
>

In order of ugliness - beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder..... ;-)

The Nuovo Sport (1960s)
http://www.velobase.com/ViewSingleComponent.aspx?ID=964ae418-a4ad-40d0-b6f0-64f6535fb153

The Valentino Extra (1968 to 1985)
http://www.velobase.com/ViewSingleComponent.aspx?ID=5f356be4-bd2b-49cd-b610-99ca011654f7

The Nuovo Valentino (1970 to 1984)
http://www.velobase.com/ViewSingleComponent.aspx?ID=6926b3ea-15ee-4dd5-87c8-99e0b83ef5a7

The Velox (1971 on)
http://www.velobase.com/ViewSingleComponent.aspx?ID=5eb9c7bd-8f0c-4b75-977c-c4de5b00243a

The Nuovo Gran Sport (1974 to 1985)
http://www.velobase.com/ViewSingleComponent.aspx?ID=2f27600f-12ec-44c5-a4a2-600ffc9ef343

The Valentino/Gran Sport Front Derailleur (which came 1st - Campy or
Simplex?)
http://www.velobase.com/ViewSingleComponent.aspx?ID=9c598bf7-aed6-4081-8946-60f857838637

Then there's the grand-daddy of them all - The Gran Turisimo (1970-1974)
http://www.velobase.com/ViewSingleComponent.aspx?ID=f3318a6d-110a-467f-bdd3-abf899e2b8b4

I have one of these Gran Turisimos as a paper weight on my desk. It weighs
about 2 Lbs. They shifted so poorly as to be almost nonfunctional. They
were so strong that if the chain got jammed the frame would break before
the cage would bend.

I like the shape of the cage... It reminds me of the Grim Reaper's scythe.

Chas.

[* * Chas]

"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
news:13pqaciib612n87@corp.supernews.com...
> > "* * Chas" <verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> >> I tended to ignore GS stuff back in the day - the derailleurs were so
ugly
> >> and so on. Why put your name on crap!
>
> still just me wrote:
> > That's not half bad... what was that POS steel thing they threw on
> > cheapo Italian bikes back in the boom?
> > My first experience with Campy as a kid was with one of those, I still
> > remember thinking "if this is what they build, what's all the fuss
> > about Campy?"
>
> Perhaps you're referring to that boat anchor rear changer, "Gran
Turismo"?
> http://re3.mm-a2.yimg.com/image/2415819558
>
> Or a Campagnolo "Velox"?
> http://sp1.mm-a1.yimg.com/image/2156809372
>
> Yecch.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Andrew, you picked the good looking ones. See my post above.

Tullio must have hated his son Valentino....

Chas.

[Michael Press]

In article <z9ydnU7m0tgnwADanZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"* * Chas" <verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com> wrote:

> "Jay Beattie" <jbeattie@lindsayhart.com> wrote in message
> news:cfc1f945-959b-4d25-ac50-52dd7ec69a70@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 26, 7:54 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> > "Michael Press" <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> > news:rubrum-30887B.16320026012008@news.sf.sbcglobal.net...
> > > In article <mO-dnfmdtLzZ-gbanZ2dnUVZ_jWdn...@comcast.com>,
> > > "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> > > > "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > >news:fnfoem$5ij$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> > > > > * * Chas wrote:
> > > > > > ...Why put your name on crap!
> > > > > These people do: <http://www.milorganite.com/home/>! ;)
> >
> > > > > Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> > > > > "And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
> > > > > - A. Derleth
> >
> > > > "Why... why it's a bag of sh*t...!" "Yes... but it's good sh*t..."
> > > > Firesign Theater ca 1969
> >
> > > "How did you get in Rococo, you don't have a key."
> > > "No only half a key. I had to split it with the sound man."
> >
> > "Far out, Catherwood. Just roll a couple of bombers and leave them on
> the
> > side table."
>
> Keep going, then I won't have to re-buy my Nick Danger album!
> Firesign Theater was funny and smart. I think "Don't Crush that Dwarf"
> alluded to Nietzsche, James Joyce, Huxley and Marshall McLuhan in the
> same track. You could listen to the same bit while in high school and
> laugh, and then listen three years later (after some history,
> philosphy and lit classes) and laugh harder. It was so layered, unlike
> the four letter spew we call comedy today. -- Jay Beattie.
>
> www.theatreofthemindless.com/TOTM/SCRIPTS/NickDanger.doc

Thank you for that. I could not find more than bits and pieces.
Full URL is
<http://www.theatreofthemindless.com/TOTM/SCRIPTS/NickDanger.doc>

--
Michael Press

[still just me]

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 20:47:13 -0800, "* * Chas"
<verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com> wrote:

>Keep going, then I won't have to re-buy my Nick Danger album!
>Firesign Theater was funny and smart. I think "Don't Crush that Dwarf"

Can we put this-here antenna on top of that-there rock?

[still just me]

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 22:02:49 -0800, "* * Chas"
<verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com> wrote:

>>
>> still just me wrote:
>> > That's not half bad... what was that POS steel thing they threw on
>> > cheapo Italian bikes back in the boom?
>> > My first experience with Campy as a kid was with one of those, I still
>> > remember thinking "if this is what they build, what's all the fuss
>> > about Campy?"
>>
>> Perhaps you're referring to that boat anchor rear changer, "Gran
>Turismo"?
>> http://re3.mm-a2.yimg.com/image/2415819558
>>
>> Or a Campagnolo "Velox"?
>> http://sp1.mm-a1.yimg.com/image/2156809372
>>
>> Yecch.
>> --
>> Andrew Muzi
>> www.yellowjersey.org
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
>Andrew, you picked the good looking ones. See my post above.
>
>Tullio must have hated his son Valentino....
>
>Chas.

I think it was the Valentino extra I was thinking of. Oft found on
bikes Bianchi should be ashamed of as I recall.

[* * Chas]

"still just me" <wheeledBobNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kj7vp3hkd63b02r9dh6dn583boi8ftkpus@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 20:47:13 -0800, "* * Chas"
> <verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
>
> >Keep going, then I won't have to re-buy my Nick Danger album!
> >Firesign Theater was funny and smart. I think "Don't Crush that Dwarf"
>
> Can we put this-here antenna on top of that-there rock?
>

"That's our sacred mountain!"

"That's our sacred antenna!"

ssssssssssssssssssssChassssssss. ;-)

[* * Chas]

"still just me" <wheeledBobNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kj7vp3hkd63b02r9dh6dn583boi8ftkpus@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 20:47:13 -0800, "* * Chas"
> <verktygjunk@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
>
> >Keep going, then I won't have to re-buy my Nick Danger album!
> >Firesign Theater was funny and smart. I think "Don't Crush that Dwarf"
>
> Can we put this-here antenna on top of that-there rock?
>
>
"The Winning of the West."
"Waiting for the True White Brother."
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/5310/firesign.html

[Hank]

On Feb 3, 6:09 am, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> "A Muzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
>
> news:13othmjj5t9bdd7@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
>
> > * * Chas wrote:
> > > Did Campy ever make a Gran Sport Crankset that used 110mm BCD
> chainrings?
> > > Supposedly Campy briefly made some Gran Sport cranks that used 116mm
> BCD
> > > chainring that interchanged with Victory and Triomphe cranks but I've
> > > never seen one or even a catalog listing for these.
> > > Back in the day I just ignored Gran Sport components but now I'm
> trying to
> > > find some info for a project.
> > > I'm familiar with the 3 arm cranks with riveted inner chainrings and
> steel
> > > or alloy crankarms plus the Cheap NR style GS cranks with 144mm BCD
> > > chainrings but not the others.
>
> > Their first GS crank was a square taper forged steel chromed crank,
> > 3-pin (elegant appearance, not as heavy as it sounds). Later 3-pin
> > aluminum arms. The 1982 book shows GS 5-bolt aluminum with 144mm rings
> > (GS 'road') and a final 116mm version triple (GS 'tour').
>
> > I believe you may have meant one of the 110mm (Olympus, Euclid, Contax,
> > Icarus?) 'offroad' cranks, I don't recall a GS in a 110mm format.
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi
> >www.yellowjersey.org
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
> Thanks everyone for the info.
>
> I lucked out and got a pair of Campy 36T 116mm BCD chainrings. The
> lettering on the bag was so faded that 116 looked like 110. Looking at the
> picture in the auction, I could tell that the BCD was bigger than 110mm.
>
> Now if I could only find some 116mm 50T chainrings.
>
> Chas.

LooseScrews.com has 53s for $29. That's only 1 tooth bigger than a
50-34 gap that most double FDs can handle OK. Lack of pins might slow
things down, but wackier combos were used on many a TA or Stronglight
49 "back in the day."

[* * Chas]

"Hank" <hank@wirtznet.net> wrote in message
news:d825cb61-bc24-4905-b5f2-5f153516cf83@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 3, 6:09 am, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> > "A Muzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
> >
> > news:13othmjj5t9bdd7@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> >
> >
> > > * * Chas wrote:
> > > > Did Campy ever make a Gran Sport Crankset that used 110mm BCD
> > chainrings?
> > > > Supposedly Campy briefly made some Gran Sport cranks that used
116mm
> > BCD
> > > > chainring that interchanged with Victory and Triomphe cranks but
I've
> > > > never seen one or even a catalog listing for these.
> > > > Back in the day I just ignored Gran Sport components but now I'm
> > trying to
> > > > find some info for a project.
> > > > I'm familiar with the 3 arm cranks with riveted inner chainrings
and
> > steel
> > > > or alloy crankarms plus the Cheap NR style GS cranks with 144mm
BCD
> > > > chainrings but not the others.
> >
> > > Their first GS crank was a square taper forged steel chromed crank,
> > > 3-pin (elegant appearance, not as heavy as it sounds). Later 3-pin
> > > aluminum arms. The 1982 book shows GS 5-bolt aluminum with 144mm
rings
> > > (GS 'road') and a final 116mm version triple (GS 'tour').
> >
> > > I believe you may have meant one of the 110mm (Olympus, Euclid,
Contax,
> > > Icarus?) 'offroad' cranks, I don't recall a GS in a 110mm format.
> > > --
> > > Andrew Muzi
> > >www.yellowjersey.org
> > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >
> > Thanks everyone for the info.
> >
> > I lucked out and got a pair of Campy 36T 116mm BCD chainrings. The
> > lettering on the bag was so faded that 116 looked like 110. Looking at
the
> > picture in the auction, I could tell that the BCD was bigger than
110mm.
> >
> > Now if I could only find some 116mm 50T chainrings.
> >
> > Chas.
>
> LooseScrews.com has 53s for $29. That's only 1 tooth bigger than a
> 50-34 gap that most double FDs can handle OK. Lack of pins might slow
> things down, but wackier combos were used on many a TA or Stronglight
> 49 "back in the day."

Thanks Hank,

I have a stack of 52T and 53T chainrings. I've been riding 49/13 high
gears for over 30 years. I like to keep the big plate around 48T, 49T or
50T (retro grouch). I used to ride 49/45 chainrings with 13-18, 13-21,
13-24 or 13-26 freewheels for half step gearing depending on the terrain.

Lately the old knees are getting older and don't pull the hills as well
anymore. I'm now using 42T, 39T or 38T small chainrings (depending on the
cranks) with 13-28 freewheels or cassettes on my retro rigs. I have some
bikes with triples and granny gears for pulling real hills but I'd like to
keep the 2 mid 80s bikes that came with Campy Victory gruppos somewhat
stock and not have to change the RDs. That's why I'd like to try the 50/36
chainring combos.

Chas.