Meet Melissa Arrington [Archive]

Kurgan Gringioni

01-04-1970, 01:09 AM

On Jan 24, 9:13*am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Jan 24, 11:45*am, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com" <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html
>
> Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to me.
> again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring for
> her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.

Dumbass -

Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the highest
standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion of
its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty in
1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.

Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
executed were innocent?

The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past, they
will always make errors.

As for Melissa Arrington, I'd like to kick her ass.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Hell And High Water

01-04-1970, 01:09 AM

In article <a3c9c19f-bb00-4227-b98c-
9fffdd91cbae@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, tritonrider@verizon.net
says...
> On Jan 24, 11:45*am, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com" <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html
>
> Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to me.
> again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring for
> her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.

Or better yet, give her a bike and have some ass run her down.

Eye for an eye, and all that....

-Bob

chas1049@aol.com

01-04-1970, 01:09 AM

Her "friend" made matters worse for her. She did not say all those bad
things, but just laughed/agreed at the comments the guy who called her
made. She obviously has low self esteem (stripper, bad marriage with
children) and just went along with the conversation. The "friend" that
called her should also be punished. She is paying a hefty price
because of this jerk who is probably laughing with his buddies about
making matters worse for her. Melissa is just stupid, her friend is
evil.

Bill C

01-04-1970, 01:09 AM

On Jan 24, 12:38*pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 24, 9:13*am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 24, 11:45*am, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com" <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > >http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html
>
> > Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to me.
> > again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring for
> > her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the highest
> standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion of
> its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty in
> 1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
> exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.
>
> Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
> executed were innocent?
>
> The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
> difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
> make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past, they
> will always make errors.
>
> As for Melissa Arrington, I'd like to kick her ass.
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.

I'm cold blooded in this matter. Anyway there should be something
better than free housing, food, cable TV, computer access, college,
medical care, gym, etc...for career and capital criminals.
They're increasingly better treated than the victims and their
families. I've always wondered why anyone is homeless on the streets.
Faced with that, especially in winter, I'm busting a gourmet/liquor
store window. Grabbing some heat, good food, and a drink while I wait
for them to come escort me off for a warm shower and all the things
that aren't available.
Hope someone on the inside kicks her ass.
Bill C

Tom Kunich

01-04-1970, 01:09 AM

"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3690401c-87c9-4e8f-adc3-4c982283843f@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the highest
> standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion of
> its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty in
> 1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
> exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.
>
> Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
> executed were innocent?
>
> The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
> difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
> make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past, they
> will always make errors.

Henry, you know that if you always put your beliefs as plainly and clearly
as this we'd not have problems. I do agree with you that the level of proof
must be complete before someone can qualify for the death penalty. Though
unlike you I do believe that the majority of capital punishment cases do
meet those standards. You don't seem to understand that the majority of
people on death row have murdered people in front of others or a camera etc.

Now, while I don't disagree with your position, we still have to have
maximum penalties. As Bill points out, there are those who we know beyond
the shadow of a doubt are cold blooded murderers or other crimes as bad. To
force the citizens of this country to support them for decades is counter
productive.

TJG

01-04-1970, 01:09 AM

On Jan 24, 1:10 pm, Hell And High Water <bob.remove.hell...@att.net>
wrote:
> In article <a3c9c19f-bb00-4227-b98c-
> 9fffdd91c...@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, tritonri...@verizon.net
> says...
>
> > On Jan 24, 11:45 am, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com" <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > >http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html
>
> > Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to me.
> > again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring for
> > her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.
>
> Or better yet, give her a bike and have some ass run her down.
>
> Eye for an eye, and all that....
>
> -Bob

Yes, a common misconception of what "an eye for an eye" means...

Kurgan Gringioni

01-04-1970, 01:10 AM

On Jan 24, 1:15*pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Jan 24, 12:38*pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 24, 9:13*am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 24, 11:45*am, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com" <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > >http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html
>
> > > Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to me.
> > > again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring for
> > > her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the highest
> > standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion of
> > its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty in
> > 1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
> > exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.
>
> > Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
> > executed were innocent?
>
> > The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
> > difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
> > make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past, they
> > will always make errors.
>
> > As for Melissa Arrington, I'd like to kick her ass.
>
> > thanks,
>
> > K. Gringioni.
>
> I'm cold blooded in this matter. Anyway there should be something
> better than free housing, food, cable TV, computer access, college,
> medical care, gym, etc...for career and capital criminals.
> *They're increasingly better treated than the victims and their
> families. *I've always wondered why anyone is homeless on the streets.
> Faced with that, especially in winter, I'm busting a gourmet/liquor
> store window. Grabbing some heat, good food, and a drink while I wait
> for them to come escort me off for a warm shower and all the things
> that aren't available.

Dumbass -

Did you miss the part about a not unsubstantial minority of the people
being innocent?

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Bill C

01-04-1970, 01:11 AM

On Jan 24, 5:49*pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 24, 1:15*pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 24, 12:38*pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 24, 9:13*am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 24, 11:45*am, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com" <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > >http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html
>
> > > > Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to me.
> > > > again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring for
> > > > her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.
>
> > > Dumbass -
>
> > > Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the highest
> > > standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion of
> > > its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty in
> > > 1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
> > > exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.
>
> > > Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
> > > executed were innocent?
>
> > > The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
> > > difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
> > > make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past, they
> > > will always make errors.
>
> > > As for Melissa Arrington, I'd like to kick her ass.
>
> > > thanks,
>
> > > K. Gringioni.
>
> > I'm cold blooded in this matter. Anyway there should be something
> > better than free housing, food, cable TV, computer access, college,
> > medical care, gym, etc...for career and capital criminals.
> > *They're increasingly better treated than the victims and their
> > families. *I've always wondered why anyone is homeless on the streets.
> > Faced with that, especially in winter, I'm busting a gourmet/liquor
> > store window. Grabbing some heat, good food, and a drink while I wait
> > for them to come escort me off for a warm shower and all the things
> > that aren't available.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Did you miss the part about a not unsubstantial minority of the people
> being innocent?
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Seems to me the system worked. They were cleared before killed. How
about all those who are eligible for capital punishment who are let
loose to kill again? Show me a single proven execution of an innocent
in the modern era.
Bill C
Bill C

Phil Holman

01-04-1970, 01:11 AM

"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:49ff7fa9-ffba-4f66-9768-74b736f958b9@q21g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 24, 1:15 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Jan 24, 12:38 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 24, 9:13 am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 24, 11:45 am, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com"
> > > <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > >http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html
>
> > > Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to
> > > me.
> > > again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring
> > > for
> > > her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the
> > highest
> > standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion
> > of
> > its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty
> > in
> > 1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
> > exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.
>
> > Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
> > executed were innocent?
>
> > The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
> > difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
> > make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past,
> > they
> > will always make errors.
>
> > As for Melissa Arrington, I'd like to kick her ass.
>
> > thanks,
>
> > K. Gringioni.
>
> I'm cold blooded in this matter. Anyway there should be something
> better than free housing, food, cable TV, computer access, college,
> medical care, gym, etc...for career and capital criminals.
> They're increasingly better treated than the victims and their
> families. I've always wondered why anyone is homeless on the streets.
> Faced with that, especially in winter, I'm busting a gourmet/liquor
> store window. Grabbing some heat, good food, and a drink while I wait
> for them to come escort me off for a warm shower ..........

Yes, I'm sure Bubba will pass you the soap along with his, erm, top
tube. You've got to be kidding.

Phil H

Kurgan Gringioni

01-04-1970, 01:11 AM

On Jan 24, 3:20*pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Jan 24, 5:49*pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 24, 1:15*pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 24, 12:38*pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 24, 9:13*am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jan 24, 11:45*am, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com" <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > >http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html
>
> > > > > Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to me.
> > > > > again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring for
> > > > > her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.
>
> > > > Dumbass -
>
> > > > Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the highest
> > > > standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion of
> > > > its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty in
> > > > 1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
> > > > exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.
>
> > > > Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
> > > > executed were innocent?
>
> > > > The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
> > > > difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
> > > > make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past, they
> > > > will always make errors.
>
> > > > As for Melissa Arrington, I'd like to kick her ass.
>
> > > > thanks,
>
> > > > K. Gringioni.
>
> > > I'm cold blooded in this matter. Anyway there should be something
> > > better than free housing, food, cable TV, computer access, college,
> > > medical care, gym, etc...for career and capital criminals.
> > > *They're increasingly better treated than the victims and their
> > > families. *I've always wondered why anyone is homeless on the streets.
> > > Faced with that, especially in winter, I'm busting a gourmet/liquor
> > > store window. Grabbing some heat, good food, and a drink while I wait
> > > for them to come escort me off for a warm shower and all the things
> > > that aren't available.
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > Did you miss the part about a not unsubstantial minority of the people
> > being innocent?
>
> > thanks,
>
> > K. Gringioni.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Seems to me the system worked. They were cleared before killed.

Dumbass -

Errr . . . statistically it's almost a certainty that given the
substantial number that were cleared, there were also some innocents
that were executed.

We don't know how many because once they are executed, efforts to
prove their innocence stop. Here's one case where it did not:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3472872.html

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

01-04-1970, 01:11 AM

On 1/24/08 3:20 PM, in article
0c6e2b24-ec89-4eef-bb0c-fba073029fdd@l32g2000hse.googlegroups.com, "Bill C"
<tritonrider@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Jan 24, 5:49*pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jan 24, 1:15*pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 24, 12:38*pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> On Jan 24, 9:13*am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>> On Jan 24, 11:45*am, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com" <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html
>>
>>>>> Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to me.
>>>>> again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring for
>>>>> her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.
>>
>>>> Dumbass -
>>
>>>> Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the highest
>>>> standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion of
>>>> its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty in
>>>> 1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
>>>> exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.
>>
>>>> Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
>>>> executed were innocent?
>>
>>>> The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
>>>> difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
>>>> make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past, they
>>>> will always make errors.
>>
>>>> As for Melissa Arrington, I'd like to kick her ass.
>>
>>>> thanks,
>>
>>>> K. Gringioni.
>>
>>> I'm cold blooded in this matter. Anyway there should be something
>>> better than free housing, food, cable TV, computer access, college,
>>> medical care, gym, etc...for career and capital criminals.
>>> *They're increasingly better treated than the victims and their
>>> families. *I've always wondered why anyone is homeless on the streets.
>>> Faced with that, especially in winter, I'm busting a gourmet/liquor
>>> store window. Grabbing some heat, good food, and a drink while I wait
>>> for them to come escort me off for a warm shower and all the things
>>> that aren't available.
>>
>> Dumbass -
>>
>> Did you miss the part about a not unsubstantial minority of the people
>> being innocent?
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> K. Gringioni.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Seems to me the system worked. They were cleared before killed. How
> about all those who are eligible for capital punishment who are let
> loose to kill again? Show me a single proven execution of an innocent
> in the modern era.
> Bill C
> Bill C

Correct......

How many crimes are committed by repeat offenders??

Bill C

01-04-1970, 01:11 AM

On Jan 24, 6:47*pm, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:
> "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:49ff7fa9-ffba-4f66-9768-74b736f958b9@q21g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 24, 1:15 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 24, 12:38 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 24, 9:13 am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 24, 11:45 am, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com"
> > > > <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > >http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html
>
> > > > Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to
> > > > me.
> > > > again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring
> > > > for
> > > > her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.
>
> > > Dumbass -
>
> > > Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the
> > > highest
> > > standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion
> > > of
> > > its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty
> > > in
> > > 1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
> > > exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.
>
> > > Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
> > > executed were innocent?
>
> > > The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
> > > difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
> > > make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past,
> > > they
> > > will always make errors.
>
> > > As for Melissa Arrington, I'd like to kick her ass.
>
> > > thanks,
>
> > > K. Gringioni.
>
> > I'm cold blooded in this matter. Anyway there should be something
> > better than free housing, food, cable TV, computer access, college,
> > medical care, gym, etc...for career and capital criminals.
> > They're increasingly better treated than the victims and their
> > families. I've always wondered why anyone is homeless on the streets.
> > Faced with that, especially in winter, I'm busting a gourmet/liquor
> > store window. Grabbing some heat, good food, and a drink while I wait
> > for them to come escort me off for a warm shower ..........
>
> Yes, I'm sure Bubba will pass you the soap along with his, erm, top
> tube. You've got to be kidding.
>
> Phil H- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Dumbass, what's better freezing to death because the shelters that
haven't closed are full, or sitting in county lock-up?
Bill C

Kurgan Gringioni

01-04-1970, 01:11 AM

On Jan 24, 4:13*pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Jan 24, 6:47*pm, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:49ff7fa9-ffba-4f66-9768-74b736f958b9@q21g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> > On Jan 24, 1:15 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 24, 12:38 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 24, 9:13 am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jan 24, 11:45 am, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com"
> > > > > <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > >http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html
>
> > > > > Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to
> > > > > me.
> > > > > again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring
> > > > > for
> > > > > her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.
>
> > > > Dumbass -
>
> > > > Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the
> > > > highest
> > > > standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion
> > > > of
> > > > its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty
> > > > in
> > > > 1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
> > > > exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.
>
> > > > Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
> > > > executed were innocent?
>
> > > > The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
> > > > difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
> > > > make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past,
> > > > they
> > > > will always make errors.
>
> > > > As for Melissa Arrington, I'd like to kick her ass.
>
> > > > thanks,
>
> > > > K. Gringioni.
>
> > > I'm cold blooded in this matter. Anyway there should be something
> > > better than free housing, food, cable TV, computer access, college,
> > > medical care, gym, etc...for career and capital criminals.
> > > They're increasingly better treated than the victims and their
> > > families. I've always wondered why anyone is homeless on the streets.
> > > Faced with that, especially in winter, I'm busting a gourmet/liquor
> > > store window. Grabbing some heat, good food, and a drink while I wait
> > > for them to come escort me off for a warm shower ..........
>
> > Yes, I'm sure Bubba will pass you the soap along with his, erm, top
> > tube. You've got to be kidding.
>
> > Phil H- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Dumbass, what's better freezing to death because the shelters that
> haven't closed are full, or sitting in county lock-up?

Dumbass -

Most homeless people are either mentally ill or drug addicts or both.
I live in an urban area and parts of town are teeming w/ them. The
money they claim that they need for food is used for drugs. They can
get free food at a shelter here that has a generous endowment. The
shelter provides food and shelter for them if they choose to take
advantage of it. Most of them choose not to. They sleep on the
streets, panhandle for drug money, crap on the sidewalk.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Phil Holman

01-04-1970, 01:11 AM

"Bill C" <tritonrider@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:00560e7d-15b7-4865-bd9f-ac20ce444396@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 24, 6:47 pm, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:
> "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:49ff7fa9-ffba-4f66-9768-74b736f958b9@q21g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 24, 1:15 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 24, 12:38 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 24, 9:13 am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 24, 11:45 am, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com"
> > > > <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > >http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html
>
> > > > Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to
> > > > me.
> > > > again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars
> > > > caring
> > > > for
> > > > her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.
>
> > > Dumbass -
>
> > > Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the
> > > highest
> > > standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the
> > > occasion
> > > of
> > > its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty
> > > in
> > > 1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
> > > exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of
> > > jail.
>
> > > Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom
> > > got
> > > executed were innocent?
>
> > > The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
> > > difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
> > > make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past,
> > > they
> > > will always make errors.
>
> > > As for Melissa Arrington, I'd like to kick her ass.
>
> > > thanks,
>
> > > K. Gringioni.
>
> > I'm cold blooded in this matter. Anyway there should be something
> > better than free housing, food, cable TV, computer access, college,
> > medical care, gym, etc...for career and capital criminals.
> > They're increasingly better treated than the victims and their
> > families. I've always wondered why anyone is homeless on the
> > streets.
> > Faced with that, especially in winter, I'm busting a gourmet/liquor
> > store window. Grabbing some heat, good food, and a drink while I
> > wait
> > for them to come escort me off for a warm shower ..........
>
> Yes, I'm sure Bubba will pass you the soap along with his, erm, top
> tube. You've got to be kidding.
>
> Phil H- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Dumbass, what's better freezing to death because the shelters that
haven't closed are full, or sitting in county lock-up?
Bill C

I can't imagine from the perspective of being homeless. You may think
it's better to be in the slammer but for some reason most of the
homeless don't appear to be exercising that option.

Phil H

Bill C

01-04-1970, 01:11 AM

On Jan 24, 8:09*pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 24, 3:20*pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 24, 5:49*pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 24, 1:15*pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 24, 12:38*pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jan 24, 9:13*am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Jan 24, 11:45*am, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com" <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > >http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html
>
> > > > > > Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to me.
> > > > > > again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring for
> > > > > > her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.
>
> > > > > Dumbass -
>
> > > > > Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the highest
> > > > > standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion of
> > > > > its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty in
> > > > > 1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
> > > > > exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.
>
> > > > > Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
> > > > > executed were innocent?
>
> > > > > The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
> > > > > difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
> > > > > make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past, they
> > > > > will always make errors.
>
> > > > > As for Melissa Arrington, I'd like to kick her ass.
>
> > > > > thanks,
>
> > > > > K. Gringioni.
>
> > > > I'm cold blooded in this matter. Anyway there should be something
> > > > better than free housing, food, cable TV, computer access, college,
> > > > medical care, gym, etc...for career and capital criminals.
> > > > *They're increasingly better treated than the victims and their
> > > > families. *I've always wondered why anyone is homeless on the streets.
> > > > Faced with that, especially in winter, I'm busting a gourmet/liquor
> > > > store window. Grabbing some heat, good food, and a drink while I wait
> > > > for them to come escort me off for a warm shower and all the things
> > > > that aren't available.
>
> > > Dumbass -
>
> > > Did you miss the part about a not unsubstantial minority of the people
> > > being innocent?
>
> > > thanks,
>
> > > K. Gringioni.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Seems to me the system worked. They were cleared before killed.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Errr . . . statistically it's almost a certainty that given the
> substantial number that were cleared, there were also some innocents
> that were executed.
>
> We don't know how many because once they are executed, efforts to
> prove their innocence stop. Here's one case where it did not:
>
> http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3472872.html
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Compare that with those folks turned loose that re-offend, or are
turned loose because shrinks think that prison is evil, and do nasty
**** to innocents. Lots more of those. New stories almost every day.
What I love is them turning folks loose when everyone testifies that
they are high risk to re-offend, and they do.
Any sympathy for all those victims? How about a law change to hold
those who caused the release as accessories to the subsequent crimes
in those cases?
Bill C

Bill C

01-04-1970, 01:11 AM

On Jan 24, 8:12*pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 24, 4:13*pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 24, 6:47*pm, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:
>
> > > "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:49ff7fa9-ffba-4f66-9768-74b736f958b9@q21g2000hsa.googlegroups.com....
> > > On Jan 24, 1:15 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 24, 12:38 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jan 24, 9:13 am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Jan 24, 11:45 am, "brian_j_r...@yahoo.com"
> > > > > > <brian_j_r...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > >http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/24/jail.laughter.ap/index.html
>
> > > > > > Good riddance to bad trash, at least for a while. Now explain to
> > > > > > me.
> > > > > > again, why we should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars caring
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > her instead of putting a bullet in her sick sick head.
>
> > > > > Dumbass -
>
> > > > > Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the
> > > > > highest
> > > > > standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion
> > > > > of
> > > > > its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty
> > > > > in
> > > > > 1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
> > > > > exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.
>
> > > > > Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
> > > > > executed were innocent?
>
> > > > > The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
> > > > > difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
> > > > > make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past,
> > > > > they
> > > > > will always make errors.
>
> > > > > As for Melissa Arrington, I'd like to kick her ass.
>
> > > > > thanks,
>
> > > > > K. Gringioni.
>
> > > > I'm cold blooded in this matter. Anyway there should be something
> > > > better than free housing, food, cable TV, computer access, college,
> > > > medical care, gym, etc...for career and capital criminals.
> > > > They're increasingly better treated than the victims and their
> > > > families. I've always wondered why anyone is homeless on the streets..
> > > > Faced with that, especially in winter, I'm busting a gourmet/liquor
> > > > store window. Grabbing some heat, good food, and a drink while I wait
> > > > for them to come escort me off for a warm shower ..........
>
> > > Yes, I'm sure Bubba will pass you the soap along with his, erm, top
> > > tube. You've got to be kidding.
>
> > > Phil H- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Dumbass, what's better freezing to death because the shelters that
> > haven't closed are full, or sitting in county lock-up?
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Most homeless people are either mentally ill or drug addicts or both.
> I live in an urban area and parts of town are teeming w/ them. The
> money they claim that they need for food is used for drugs. They can
> get free food at a shelter here that has a generous endowment. The
> shelter provides food and shelter for them if they choose to take
> advantage of it. Most of them choose not to. They sleep on the
> streets, panhandle for drug money, crap on the sidewalk.
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Obviously your shelters are better funded than ours, and your climate
is definitely friendlier. When it's -30 wind chill and the shelters
are full, or closed, including the VA which, maybe, has 25% of the
beds it needs people are screwed. Most of our shelters live month to
month pretty much, and depend in large part on State aid money which
is pretty scarce these days. The space that's really short is for
battered women/families who don't have somewhere safe to go.
Some of our friends do lots of work in this direction, including one,
used to be, semi regular who put together a run/walk for the Mayor
here to benefit these folks. It's been a huge success, in large part
thanks to the huge effort put in to make it a great event.
Bill C

Kurgan Gringioni

01-04-1970, 01:11 AM

On Jan 24, 5:13*pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> *Compare that with those folks turned loose that re-offend, or are
> turned loose because shrinks think that prison is evil, and do nasty
> **** to innocents. Lots more of those.

Dumbass -

Our country has the highest incarceration rates per capita of any
nation in the world. We also have the highest crime rate per capita of
any industrialized nation.

What does that tell us? That our incarceration methods aren't working.

It's because our system is set up to punish rather than rehabilitate.
There is an 85% recidivism rate and it's because once a guy goes into
prison for an extended period of time he becomes a hardened criminal.

Duh.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

William Asher

01-04-1970, 01:12 AM

"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in
news:13piqqg9hm2nj7e@corp.supernews.com:

>
> Henry, you know that if you always put your beliefs as plainly and
> clearly as this we'd not have problems. I do agree with you that the
> level of proof must be complete before someone can qualify for the
> death penalty. Though unlike you I do believe that the majority of
> capital punishment cases do meet those standards. You don't seem to
> understand that the majority of people on death row have murdered
> people in front of others or a camera etc.
>
> Now, while I don't disagree with your position, we still have to have
> maximum penalties. As Bill points out, there are those who we know
> beyond the shadow of a doubt are cold blooded murderers or other
> crimes as bad. To force the citizens of this country to support them
> for decades is counter productive.

Worth reading:

http://www.scottturow.com/books/ultimate-punishment/

Abridged version for free:

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/01/06/030106fa_fact

--
Bill Asher

flahute

01-04-1970, 01:12 AM

On Jan 24, 11:53*pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:3690401c-87c9-4e8f-adc3-4c982283843f@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Cases which impose The Death Penalty are supposed to meet the highest
> > standard of proof. A few years ago this country marked the occasion of
> > its 1,000th execution since the reimpositioin of the Death Penalty in
> > 1976. During that period, 120 people who were on Death Row were
> > exonerated. For every 8.5 people we executed, 1 was let out of jail.
>
> > Those errors are only the ones that we know about. How many whom got
> > executed were innocent?
>
> > The fundamental problem with executing people is that is extremely
> > difficult for any legal system to find out the truth. Until we can
> > make time machines that go back and peer into events of the past, they
> > will always make errors.
>
> Henry, you know that if you always put your beliefs as plainly and clearly
> as this we'd not have problems. I do agree with you that the level of proof
> must be complete before someone can qualify for the death penalty. Though
> unlike you I do believe that the majority of capital punishment cases do
> meet those standards. You don't seem to understand that the majority of
> people on death row have murdered people in front of others or a camera etc.
>
> Now, while I don't disagree with your position, we still have to have
> maximum penalties. As Bill points out, there are those who we know beyond
> the shadow of a doubt are cold blooded murderers or other crimes as bad. To
> force the citizens of this country to support them for decades is counter
> productive.

Research has shown that because of the appeals process in death
penalty cases, it actually costs taxpayers more to execute a murderer
than it does to keep them in prison for life, without the possibility
of parole.

Howard Kveck

01-04-1970, 01:13 AM

In article <Xns9A2FE42DFFD6BFkldeltaC@130.133.1.4>, William Asher <gcnp58@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in
> news:13piqqg9hm2nj7e@corp.supernews.com:
>
> >
> > Henry, you know that if you always put your beliefs as plainly and
> > clearly as this we'd not have problems. I do agree with you that the
> > level of proof must be complete before someone can qualify for the
> > death penalty. Though unlike you I do believe that the majority of
> > capital punishment cases do meet those standards. You don't seem to
> > understand that the majority of people on death row have murdered
> > people in front of others or a camera etc.
> >
> > Now, while I don't disagree with your position, we still have to have
> > maximum penalties. As Bill points out, there are those who we know
> > beyond the shadow of a doubt are cold blooded murderers or other
> > crimes as bad. To force the citizens of this country to support them
> > for decades is counter productive.
>
> Worth reading:
>
> http://www.scottturow.com/books/ultimate-punishment/
>
> Abridged version for free:
>
> http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/01/06/030106fa_fact

__________________________
"In fact, in the last decade the murder rate in states without the death penalty
has remained consistently lower than in the states that have had executions. Surveys
of criminologists and police chiefs show that substantial majorities of both groups
doubt that the death penalty significantly reduces the number of homicides.

"Another argument‹that the death penalty saves money, because it avoids the
expense of lifetime incarceration‹doesn't hold up, either, when you factor in the
staggering costs of capital litigation. In the United States in 2000, the average
period between conviction and execution was eleven and a half years, with lawyers and
courts spewing out briefs and decisions all that time."
__________________________

That last graf shoots a hole or two in Tom's argument (his last sentence).

--
tanx,
Howard

Now it's raining pitchforks and women,
But I've already got a pitchfork...

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

William R. Mattil

01-04-1970, 01:13 AM

William Asher wrote:
>
> Worth reading:
>
> http://www.scottturow.com/books/ultimate-punishment/
>
> Abridged version for free:
>
> http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/01/06/030106fa_fact
>

Bill,

Thanks for posting this..... the second link was very well worth the
reading.

Bill

Bill C

01-04-1970, 01:13 AM

On Jan 25, 2:36*am, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> In article <Xns9A2FE42DFFD6BFkldel...@130.133.1.4>, William Asher <gcn...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in
> >news:13piqqg9hm2nj7e@corp.supernews.com:
>
> > > Henry, you know that if you always put your beliefs as plainly and
> > > clearly as this we'd not have problems. I do agree with you that the
> > > level of proof must be complete before someone can qualify for the
> > > death penalty. Though unlike you I do believe that the majority of
> > > capital punishment cases do meet those standards. You don't seem to
> > > understand that the majority of people on death row have murdered
> > > people in front of others or a camera etc.
>
> > > Now, while I don't disagree with your position, we still have to have
> > > maximum penalties. As Bill points out, there are those who we know
> > > beyond the shadow of a doubt are cold blooded murderers or other
> > > crimes as bad. To force the citizens of this country to support them
> > > for decades is counter productive.
>
> > Worth reading:
>
> >http://www.scottturow.com/books/ultimate-punishment/
>
> > Abridged version for free:
>
> >http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/01/06/030106fa_fact
>
> __________________________
> * *"In fact, in the last decade the murder rate in states without the death penalty
> has remained consistently lower than in the states that have had executions. Surveys
> of criminologists and police chiefs show that substantial majorities of both groups
> doubt that the death penalty significantly reduces the number of homicides..
>
> * *"Another argument‹that the death penalty saves money, because it avoids the
> expense of lifetime incarceration‹doesn't hold up, either, when you factor in the
> staggering costs of capital litigation. In the United States in 2000, the average
> period between conviction and execution was eleven and a half years, with lawyers and
> courts spewing out briefs and decisions all that time."
> __________________________
>
> * *That last graf shoots a hole or two in Tom's argument (his last sentence).
>
> --
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * tanx,
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Howard
>
> * * * * * * * * * *Now it's raining pitchforks and women,
> * * * * * * * * * * *But I've already got a pitchfork...
>
> * * * * * * * * * * *remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

That makes it clear there's way too much room for legal maneuvering.
Bill C

Kurgan Gringioni

01-04-1970, 01:14 AM

On Jan 25, 4:22*am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Jan 25, 2:36*am, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <Xns9A2FE42DFFD6BFkldel...@130.133.1.4>, William Asher <gcn....@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in
> > >news:13piqqg9hm2nj7e@corp.supernews.com:
>
> > > > Henry, you know that if you always put your beliefs as plainly and
> > > > clearly as this we'd not have problems. I do agree with you that the
> > > > level of proof must be complete before someone can qualify for the
> > > > death penalty. Though unlike you I do believe that the majority of
> > > > capital punishment cases do meet those standards. You don't seem to
> > > > understand that the majority of people on death row have murdered
> > > > people in front of others or a camera etc.
>
> > > > Now, while I don't disagree with your position, we still have to have
> > > > maximum penalties. As Bill points out, there are those who we know
> > > > beyond the shadow of a doubt are cold blooded murderers or other
> > > > crimes as bad. To force the citizens of this country to support them
> > > > for decades is counter productive.
>
> > > Worth reading:
>
> > >http://www.scottturow.com/books/ultimate-punishment/
>
> > > Abridged version for free:
>
> > >http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/01/06/030106fa_fact
>
> > __________________________
> > * *"In fact, in the last decade the murder rate in states without the death penalty
> > has remained consistently lower than in the states that have had executions. Surveys
> > of criminologists and police chiefs show that substantial majorities of both groups
> > doubt that the death penalty significantly reduces the number of homicides.
>
> > * *"Another argument‹that the death penalty saves money, because it avoids the
> > expense of lifetime incarceration‹doesn't hold up, either, when you factor in the
> > staggering costs of capital litigation. In the United States in 2000, the average
> > period between conviction and execution was eleven and a half years, with lawyers and
> > courts spewing out briefs and decisions all that time."
> > __________________________
>
> > * *That last graf shoots a hole or two in Tom's argument (his last sentence).
>
> > --
> > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * tanx,
> > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Howard
>
> > * * * * * * * * * *Now it's raining pitchforks and women,
> > * * * * * * * * * * *But I've already got a pitchfork...
>
> > * * * * * * * * * * *remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> That makes it clear there's way too much room for legal maneuvering.

Dumbass -

If there was no legal maneuvering, we'd have killed 120+ more
innocents and would have never known about it.

Why are you so eager to execute people and yet so eager to let dopers
off the hook?

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Bill C

01-04-1970, 01:14 AM

On Jan 25, 7:26*am, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 25, 4:22*am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 25, 2:36*am, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > > In article <Xns9A2FE42DFFD6BFkldel...@130.133.1.4>, William Asher <gcn....@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in
> > > >news:13piqqg9hm2nj7e@corp.supernews.com:
>
> > > > > Henry, you know that if you always put your beliefs as plainly and
> > > > > clearly as this we'd not have problems. I do agree with you that the
> > > > > level of proof must be complete before someone can qualify for the
> > > > > death penalty. Though unlike you I do believe that the majority of
> > > > > capital punishment cases do meet those standards. You don't seem to
> > > > > understand that the majority of people on death row have murdered
> > > > > people in front of others or a camera etc.
>
> > > > > Now, while I don't disagree with your position, we still have to have
> > > > > maximum penalties. As Bill points out, there are those who we know
> > > > > beyond the shadow of a doubt are cold blooded murderers or other
> > > > > crimes as bad. To force the citizens of this country to support them
> > > > > for decades is counter productive.
>
> > > > Worth reading:
>
> > > >http://www.scottturow.com/books/ultimate-punishment/
>
> > > > Abridged version for free:
>
> > > >http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/01/06/030106fa_fact
>
> > > __________________________
> > > * *"In fact, in the last decade the murder rate in states without the death penalty
> > > has remained consistently lower than in the states that have had executions. Surveys
> > > of criminologists and police chiefs show that substantial majorities of both groups
> > > doubt that the death penalty significantly reduces the number of homicides.
>
> > > * *"Another argument‹that the death penalty saves money, because it avoids the
> > > expense of lifetime incarceration‹doesn't hold up, either, when you factor in the
> > > staggering costs of capital litigation. In the United States in 2000, the average
> > > period between conviction and execution was eleven and a half years, with lawyers and
> > > courts spewing out briefs and decisions all that time."
> > > __________________________
>
> > > * *That last graf shoots a hole or two in Tom's argument (his last sentence).
>
> > > --
> > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * tanx,
> > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Howard
>
> > > * * * * * * * * * *Now it's raining pitchforks and women,
> > > * * * * * * * * * * *But I've already got a pitchfork...
>
> > > * * * * * * * * * * *remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > That makes it clear there's way too much room for legal maneuvering.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> If there was no legal maneuvering, we'd have killed 120+ more
> innocents and would have never known about it.
>
> Why are you so eager to execute people and yet so eager to let dopers
> off the hook?
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Because the legal system is significantly less broken, and we would
only be talking the most solidly guilty, after appeal.
Why are you so quick to put them back on the street to re-offend?
Bill C

Kurgan Gringioni

01-04-1970, 01:14 AM

On Jan 25, 4:32*am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Jan 25, 7:26*am, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 25, 4:22*am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 25, 2:36*am, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > > > In article <Xns9A2FE42DFFD6BFkldel...@130.133.1.4>, William Asher <gcn...@yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in
> > > > >news:13piqqg9hm2nj7e@corp.supernews.com:
>
> > > > > > Henry, you know that if you always put your beliefs as plainly and
> > > > > > clearly as this we'd not have problems. I do agree with you that the
> > > > > > level of proof must be complete before someone can qualify for the
> > > > > > death penalty. Though unlike you I do believe that the majority of
> > > > > > capital punishment cases do meet those standards. You don't seem to
> > > > > > understand that the majority of people on death row have murdered
> > > > > > people in front of others or a camera etc.
>
> > > > > > Now, while I don't disagree with your position, we still have to have
> > > > > > maximum penalties. As Bill points out, there are those who we know
> > > > > > beyond the shadow of a doubt are cold blooded murderers or other
> > > > > > crimes as bad. To force the citizens of this country to support them
> > > > > > for decades is counter productive.
>
> > > > > Worth reading:
>
> > > > >http://www.scottturow.com/books/ultimate-punishment/
>
> > > > > Abridged version for free:
>
> > > > >http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/01/06/030106fa_fact
>
> > > > __________________________
> > > > * *"In fact, in the last decade the murder rate in states without the death penalty
> > > > has remained consistently lower than in the states that have had executions. Surveys
> > > > of criminologists and police chiefs show that substantial majorities of both groups
> > > > doubt that the death penalty significantly reduces the number of homicides.
>
> > > > * *"Another argument‹that the death penalty saves money, because it avoids the
> > > > expense of lifetime incarceration‹doesn't hold up, either, when you factor in the
> > > > staggering costs of capital litigation. In the United States in 2000, the average
> > > > period between conviction and execution was eleven and a half years, with lawyers and
> > > > courts spewing out briefs and decisions all that time."
> > > > __________________________
>
> > > > * *That last graf shoots a hole or two in Tom's argument (his last sentence).
>
> > > > --
> > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * tanx,
> > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Howard
>
> > > > * * * * * * * * * *Now it's raining pitchforks and women,
> > > > * * * * * * * * * * *But I've already got a pitchfork...
>
> > > > * * * * * * * * * * *remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > That makes it clear there's way too much room for legal maneuvering.
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > If there was no legal maneuvering, we'd have killed 120+ more
> > innocents and would have never known about it.
>
> > Why are you so eager to execute people and yet so eager to let dopers
> > off the hook?
>
> > thanks,
>
> > K. Gringioni.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Because the legal system is significantly less broken, and we would
> only be talking the most solidly guilty, after appeal.
> *Why are you so quick to put them back on the street to re-offend?

Jackass -

**** you. I never said that. **** you and your strawman.

I just said don't kill them. Once you kill them, if you're wrong, you
can't rectify it.

**** off, Mr. Strawman.

K. Gringioni.

Bill C

01-04-1970, 01:14 AM

On Jan 25, 7:49*am, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 25, 4:32*am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 25, 7:26*am, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 25, 4:22*am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 25, 2:36*am, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > In article <Xns9A2FE42DFFD6BFkldel...@130.133.1.4>, William Asher <gcn...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in
> > > > > >news:13piqqg9hm2nj7e@corp.supernews.com:
>
> > > > > > > Henry, you know that if you always put your beliefs as plainly and
> > > > > > > clearly as this we'd not have problems. I do agree with you that the
> > > > > > > level of proof must be complete before someone can qualify for the
> > > > > > > death penalty. Though unlike you I do believe that the majority of
> > > > > > > capital punishment cases do meet those standards. You don't seem to
> > > > > > > understand that the majority of people on death row have murdered
> > > > > > > people in front of others or a camera etc.
>
> > > > > > > Now, while I don't disagree with your position, we still have to have
> > > > > > > maximum penalties. As Bill points out, there are those who we know
> > > > > > > beyond the shadow of a doubt are cold blooded murderers or other
> > > > > > > crimes as bad. To force the citizens of this country to support them
> > > > > > > for decades is counter productive.
>
> > > > > > Worth reading:
>
> > > > > >http://www.scottturow.com/books/ultimate-punishment/
>
> > > > > > Abridged version for free:
>
> > > > > >http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/01/06/030106fa_fact
>
> > > > > __________________________
> > > > > * *"In fact, in the last decade the murder rate in states without the death penalty
> > > > > has remained consistently lower than in the states that have had executions. Surveys
> > > > > of criminologists and police chiefs show that substantial majorities of both groups
> > > > > doubt that the death penalty significantly reduces the number of homicides.
>
> > > > > * *"Another argument‹that the death penalty saves money, because it avoids the
> > > > > expense of lifetime incarceration‹doesn't hold up, either, when you factor in the
> > > > > staggering costs of capital litigation. In the United States in 2000, the average
> > > > > period between conviction and execution was eleven and a half years, with lawyers and
> > > > > courts spewing out briefs and decisions all that time."
> > > > > __________________________
>
> > > > > * *That last graf shoots a hole or two in Tom's argument (his last sentence).
>
> > > > > --
> > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * tanx,
> > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Howard
>
> > > > > * * * * * * * * * *Now it's raining pitchforks and women,
> > > > > * * * * * * * * * * *But I've already got a pitchfork...
>
> > > > > * * * * * * * * * * *remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > That makes it clear there's way too much room for legal maneuvering.
>
> > > Dumbass -
>
> > > If there was no legal maneuvering, we'd have killed 120+ more
> > > innocents and would have never known about it.
>
> > > Why are you so eager to execute people and yet so eager to let dopers
> > > off the hook?
>
> > > thanks,
>
> > > K. Gringioni.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Because the legal system is significantly less broken, and we would
> > only be talking the most solidly guilty, after appeal.
> > *Why are you so quick to put them back on the street to re-offend?
>
> Jackass -
>
> **** you. I never said that. **** you and your strawman.
>
> I just said don't kill them. Once you kill them, if you're wrong, you
> can't rectify it.
>
> **** off, Mr. Strawman.
>
> K. Gringioni.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Gotcha. I know I'm an *******.
Anyway. You get the courts to stop turning them loose to re-offend
and I'll stop pushing to make sure they can't re-offend.
Bill C

Kyle Legate

01-04-1970, 01:14 AM

Bill C wrote:
>>
>
> Gotcha. I know I'm an *******.
> Anyway. You get the courts to stop turning them loose to re-offend
> and I'll stop pushing to make sure they can't re-offend.
> Bill C

The point, since you seem to have missed it, is that a significant
proportion never offended in the first place.

01-04-1970, 01:16 AM

On 1/25/08 5:14 PM, in article
4e4d422b-096c-47af-a6ba-8a74f5c132ff@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com, "Kurgan
Gringioni" <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Jan 24, 5:13*pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> *Compare that with those folks turned loose that re-offend, or are
>> turned loose because shrinks think that prison is evil, and do nasty
>> **** to innocents. Lots more of those.
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> Our country has the highest incarceration rates per capita of any
> nation in the world. We also have the highest crime rate per capita of
> any industrialized nation.
>
> What does that tell us? That our incarceration methods aren't working.
>
> It's because our system is set up to punish rather than rehabilitate.
> There is an 85% recidivism rate and it's because once a guy goes into
> prison for an extended period of time he becomes a hardened criminal.
>
> Duh.
>
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.

Bull****!!
You are smarter than that assbag! Quite ****in with the stats.
Correlation does NOT mean causation! Punishment is slow, tedious and, in the
end not much of any punishment!! The system inside allows for the
incarcerated to still commit indiscretions on the outside!!

**** got ****ed up when punishment changed to just a long layover...

Sandy

01-04-1970, 01:16 AM

Dans le message de
news:4e4d422b-096c-47af-a6ba-8a74f5c132ff@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com,
Kurgan Gringioni <kgringioni@hotmail.com> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> On Jan 24, 5:13 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> Compare that with those folks turned loose that re-offend, or are
>> turned loose because shrinks think that prison is evil, and do nasty
>> **** to innocents. Lots more of those.
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> Our country has the highest incarceration rates per capita of any
> nation in the world. We also have the highest crime rate per capita of
> any industrialized nation.
>
> What does that tell us? That our incarceration methods aren't working.
>
> It's because our system is set up to punish rather than rehabilitate.
> There is an 85% recidivism rate and it's because once a guy goes into
> prison for an extended period of time he becomes a hardened criminal.
>
> Duh.
>
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.

Should we take your comment to mean that punishment is not a valid means of
achieving changes in behavior? Not ever? Not partially? Maybe abandon the
idea of prison as a correctional location altogether? Maybe just accept bad
behavior as a byproduct of human interaction and accentuate the positive? (A
song is trying hard to burst through, but my voice has been declared PNG in
most countries I have visited.)
--
--
Sandy

" La France est un pays extraordinaire, on sème des fonctionnaires...il
pousse des impôts "
- Clémenceau

Kurgan Gringioni

01-04-1970, 01:16 AM

On Jan 25, 5:49*pm, ST <n...@no.com> wrote:
> On 1/25/08 5:14 PM, in article
> 4e4d422b-096c-47af-a6ba-8a74f5c13...@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com, "Kurgan
>
>
>
>
>
> Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jan 24, 5:13*pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >> *Compare that with those folks turned loose that re-offend, or are
> >> turned loose because shrinks think that prison is evil, and do nasty
> >> **** to innocents. Lots more of those.
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > Our country has the highest incarceration rates per capita of any
> > nation in the world. We also have the highest crime rate per capita of
> > any industrialized nation.
>
> > What does that tell us? That our incarceration methods aren't working.
>
> > It's because our system is set up to punish rather than rehabilitate.
> > There is an 85% recidivism rate and it's because once a guy goes into
> > prison for an extended period of time he becomes a hardened criminal.
>
> > Duh.
>
> > thanks,
>
> > K. Gringioni.
>
> Bull****!!
> You are smarter than that assbag! Quite ****in with the stats.
> Correlation does NOT mean causation! Punishment is slow, tedious and, in the
> end not much of any punishment!! The system inside allows for the
> incarcerated to still commit indiscretions on the outside!!
>
> **** got ****ed up when punishment changed to just a long layover...

Dumbass -

To both you and Sandy: of course there still needs to be punishment.

If we are interested in reducing crime though, the incarceration needs
to be more than what it is today. Incarceration in American prisons is
brutal. Of course anyone that is subject to that sort of environment
is going to emerge an even bigger threat to society than when they
went in.

The system needs to make the punishment a time to learn how to follow
rules (laws) voluntarily. They quit doing behavior modification a long
time ago and we are seeing the results.

And yes, if the behavior modifcation isn't successful for any given
individual, time served should be increased.

Right now the system is random, brutal, and it doesn't stop crime.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Bill C

01-04-1970, 01:16 AM

On Jan 25, 8:51*pm, "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote:
> Dans le message denews:4e4d422b-096c-47af-a6ba-8a74f5c132ff@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com,
> Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 24, 5:13 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >> Compare that with those folks turned loose that re-offend, or are
> >> turned loose because shrinks think that prison is evil, and do nasty
> >> **** to innocents. Lots more of those.
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > Our country has the highest incarceration rates per capita of any
> > nation in the world. We also have the highest crime rate per capita of
> > any industrialized nation.
>
> > What does that tell us? That our incarceration methods aren't working.
>
> > It's because our system is set up to punish rather than rehabilitate.
> > There is an 85% recidivism rate and it's because once a guy goes into
> > prison for an extended period of time he becomes a hardened criminal.
>
> > Duh.
>
> > thanks,
>
> > K. Gringioni.
>
> Should we take your comment to mean that punishment is not a valid means of
> achieving changes in behavior? *Not ever? *Not partially? *Maybe abandon the
> idea of prison as a correctional location altogether? *Maybe just accept bad
> behavior as a byproduct of human interaction and accentuate the positive? (A
> song is trying hard to burst through, but my voice has been declared PNG in
> most countries I have visited.)
> --
> --
> Sandy
>
> " La France est un pays extraordinaire, on sème des fonctionnaires...il
> pousse des impôts "
> - Clémenceau- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hey Sandy
I'm gonna gree with Kurgan for the most part.
The system does WAY too little towards rehabbing those who are first
timers in non capital/rape crimes, non-violent, non-career. We need to
give those people skills and follow on guidance.
The parole system is a total snafu too, let alone follow up help.
IMO the first goal of prison is to protect society from the
criminals, and locking them up does this. We sure as hell don't need
to be locking people up for possession of personal amounts of drugs,
just dealers. Alternative programs for non-violent/young offenders.
Screw the violent, career, child/multiple rapist types. Use 'em as
labor, kill 'em whatever, as long as they aren't released to attack
society again.
Bill C

01-04-1970, 01:16 AM

On 1/25/08 6:03 PM, in article
631f9811-1d20-42f5-8bcc-22f4117be61c@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com, "Kurgan
Gringioni" <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Jan 25, 5:49*pm, ST <n...@no.com> wrote:
>> On 1/25/08 5:14 PM, in article
>> 4e4d422b-096c-47af-a6ba-8a74f5c13...@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com, "Kurgan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Jan 24, 5:13*pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> *Compare that with those folks turned loose that re-offend, or are
>>>> turned loose because shrinks think that prison is evil, and do nasty
>>>> **** to innocents. Lots more of those.
>>
>>> Dumbass -
>>
>>> Our country has the highest incarceration rates per capita of any
>>> nation in the world. We also have the highest crime rate per capita of
>>> any industrialized nation.
>>
>>> What does that tell us? That our incarceration methods aren't working.
>>
>>> It's because our system is set up to punish rather than rehabilitate.
>>> There is an 85% recidivism rate and it's because once a guy goes into
>>> prison for an extended period of time he becomes a hardened criminal.
>>
>>> Duh.
>>
>>> thanks,
>>
>>> K. Gringioni.
>>
>> Bull****!!
>> You are smarter than that assbag! Quite ****in with the stats.
>> Correlation does NOT mean causation! Punishment is slow, tedious and, in the
>> end not much of any punishment!! The system inside allows for the
>> incarcerated to still commit indiscretions on the outside!!
>>
>> **** got ****ed up when punishment changed to just a long layover...
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> To both you and Sandy: of course there still needs to be punishment.
>
> If we are interested in reducing crime though, the incarceration needs
> to be more than what it is today. Incarceration in American prisons is
> brutal. Of course anyone that is subject to that sort of environment
> is going to emerge an even bigger threat to society than when they
> went in.
>
> The system needs to make the punishment a time to learn how to follow
> rules (laws) voluntarily. They quit doing behavior modification a long
> time ago and we are seeing the results.
>
> And yes, if the behavior modifcation isn't successful for any given
> individual, time served should be increased.
>
> Right now the system is random, brutal, and it doesn't stop crime.
>
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.

The system is FAR from brutal!
The treatment of inmates by other inmates can be brutal!

Please re-read that again!!

Bill gave numerous examples of the perks of the incarcerated. They get
better healthcare than most law abiding citizens!!

John Forrest Tomlinson

01-04-1970, 01:16 AM

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 02:25:19 GMT, ST <no@no.com> wrote:

>The system is FAR from brutal!
>The treatment of inmates by other inmates can be brutal!

Dumbass. The two sentences above contradict each other.

Thanks,

JFT

01-04-1970, 01:17 AM

On 1/25/08 6:52 PM, in article t18lp3ljo4fc97td8hldeepjrod3scce58@4ax.com,
"John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetremove@jt10000.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 02:25:19 GMT, ST <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>> The system is FAR from brutal!
>> The treatment of inmates by other inmates can be brutal!
>
> Dumbass. The two sentences above contradict each other.
>
> Thanks,
>
> JFT
>

Coming from you I can understand. But to a normal non PC person???

The system coddles the criminal as compared to history or many other
countries. The fact that other inmates, gangs of inmates are ALLOWED to
brutalize other inmates is sentence 2.

Kurgan Gringioni

01-04-1970, 01:17 AM

On Jan 25, 7:11*pm, ST <n...@no.com> wrote:
> On 1/25/08 6:52 PM, in article t18lp3ljo4fc97td8hldeepjrod3scc...@4ax.com,
> "John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetrem...@jt10000.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 02:25:19 GMT, ST <n...@no.com> wrote:
>
> >> The system is FAR from brutal!
> >> The treatment of inmates by other inmates can be brutal!
>
> > Dumbass. The two sentences above contradict each other.
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > JFT
>
> Coming from you I can understand. But to a normal non PC person???
>
> The system coddles the criminal as compared to history or many other
> countries. The fact that other inmates, gangs of inmates are ALLOWED to
> brutalize other inmates is sentence 2.

Dumbass -

Let me get this straight:

Is it correct that you believe that the US criminal justice system is
good at preventing crime?

thanks,

K. Gringnioni.

01-04-1970, 01:17 AM

On 1/25/08 9:25 PM, in article
1c65e401-dd5a-4b0f-9d34-0c7061b194ab@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com, "Kurgan
Gringioni" <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Jan 25, 7:11*pm, ST <n...@no.com> wrote:
>> On 1/25/08 6:52 PM, in article t18lp3ljo4fc97td8hldeepjrod3scc...@4ax.com,
>> "John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetrem...@jt10000.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 02:25:19 GMT, ST <n...@no.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> The system is FAR from brutal!
>>>> The treatment of inmates by other inmates can be brutal!
>>
>>> Dumbass. The two sentences above contradict each other.
>>
>>> Thanks,
>>
>>> JFT
>>
>> Coming from you I can understand. But to a normal non PC person???
>>
>> The system coddles the criminal as compared to history or many other
>> countries. The fact that other inmates, gangs of inmates are ALLOWED to
>> brutalize other inmates is sentence 2.
>
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> Let me get this straight:
>
> Is it correct that you believe that the US criminal justice system is
> good at preventing crime?
>
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringnioni.

I did not say that Assbag!!
I said the SYSTEM! Run by the GOVERNMENT is not BRUTAL!!
The inmates are BRUTAL!!

GET IT RIGHT!!

Tom Kunich

01-04-1970, 01:17 AM

"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1c65e401-dd5a-4b0f-9d34-0c7061b194ab@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> Is it correct that you believe that the US criminal justice system is
> good at preventing crime?

Can you tell me how you prevent crime? Who were the SLA again? A bunch of
down and outers with no other choice?

01-04-1970, 01:17 AM

On 1/26/08 12:00 AM, in article 6007lfF1np6oaU1@mid.individual.net, "Kyle
Legate" <legatek@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Bill C wrote:
>>>
>>
>> Gotcha. I know I'm an *******.
>> Anyway. You get the courts to stop turning them loose to re-offend
>> and I'll stop pushing to make sure they can't re-offend.
>> Bill C
>
> The point, since you seem to have missed it, is that a significant
> proportion never offended in the first place.

BS!
They may not have committed this crime but are FAR from never had offended!!
Look at all the cases. How many NEVER hurt a fly? NEVER had an existing rap
sheet?

Bill C

01-04-1970, 01:17 AM

On Jan 26, 3:00*am, Kyle Legate <lega...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
>
> > Gotcha. I know I'm an *******.
> > *Anyway. You get the courts to stop turning them loose to re-offend
> > and I'll stop pushing to make sure they can't re-offend.
> > *Bill C
>
> The point, since you seem to have missed it, is that a significant
> proportion never offended in the first place.

Kyle there's a lot bigger group that have been turned loose to kill
and rape again, than the State has killed innocents. IMO the State, in
turning those folks loose, is killing, and wrecking the lives of
innocents. That goes for the people lobbying on their behalf too.
I can live with the ones I want killed, there is noone taking
responsibility for the rest.
Bill C

Kurgan Gringioni

01-04-1970, 01:18 AM

On Jan 26, 6:04*am, ST <n...@no.com> wrote:
> On 1/25/08 9:25 PM, in article
> 1c65e401-dd5a-4b0f-9d34-0c7061b19...@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com, "Kurgan
>
>
>
>
>
> Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jan 25, 7:11*pm, ST <n...@no.com> wrote:
> >> On 1/25/08 6:52 PM, in article t18lp3ljo4fc97td8hldeepjrod3scc...@4ax.com,
> >> "John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetrem...@jt10000.com> wrote:
>
> >>> On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 02:25:19 GMT, ST <n...@no.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> The system is FAR from brutal!
> >>>> The treatment of inmates by other inmates can be brutal!
>
> >>> Dumbass. The two sentences above contradict each other.
>
> >>> Thanks,
>
> >>> JFT
>
> >> Coming from you I can understand. But to a normal non PC person???
>
> >> The system coddles the criminal as compared to history or many other
> >> countries. The fact that other inmates, gangs of inmates are ALLOWED to
> >> brutalize other inmates is sentence 2.
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > Let me get this straight:
>
> > Is it correct that you believe that the US criminal justice system is
> > good at preventing crime?
>
> > thanks,
>
> > K. Gringnioni.
>
> I did not say that Assbag!!
> I said the SYSTEM! Run by the GOVERNMENT is not BRUTAL!!
> The inmates are BRUTAL!!

Dumbass -

You didn't answer the question:

Do you believe that the US criminal justice system is good at
preventing crime?

Yes or no.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

01-04-1970, 01:18 AM

On 1/26/08 6:03 AM, in article C3C07DA2.4DF12%no@no.com, "ST" <no@no.com>
wrote:

> On 1/26/08 12:00 AM, in article 6007lfF1np6oaU1@mid.individual.net, "Kyle
> Legate" <legatek@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Bill C wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>> Gotcha. I know I'm an *******.
>>> Anyway. You get the courts to stop turning them loose to re-offend
>>> and I'll stop pushing to make sure they can't re-offend.
>>> Bill C
>>
>> The point, since you seem to have missed it, is that a significant
>> proportion never offended in the first place.
>
>
> BS!
> They may not have committed this crime but are FAR from never had offended!!
> Look at all the cases. How many NEVER hurt a fly? NEVER had an existing rap
> sheet?
>
Also.........
Significant proportion? Where did you learn math?

Kyle Legate

01-04-1970, 01:18 AM

ST wrote:
> On 1/26/08 12:00 AM, in article 6007lfF1np6oaU1@mid.individual.net, "Kyle
> Legate" <legatek@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Bill C wrote:
>>> Gotcha. I know I'm an *******.
>>> Anyway. You get the courts to stop turning them loose to re-offend
>>> and I'll stop pushing to make sure they can't re-offend.
>>> Bill C
>> The point, since you seem to have missed it, is that a significant
>> proportion never offended in the first place.
>
>
> BS!
> They may not have committed this crime but are FAR from never had offended!!
> Look at all the cases. How many NEVER hurt a fly? NEVER had an existing rap
> sheet?
>
That's not the point, the point is that they didn't commit the crime
they were convicted of.

Stupid doesn't _always_ have to accompany fat, you know.

Howard Kveck

01-04-1970, 01:18 AM

In article <C3C07DA2.4DF12%no@no.com>, ST <no@no.com> wrote:

> On 1/26/08 12:00 AM, in article 6007lfF1np6oaU1@mid.individual.net, "Kyle
> Legate" <legatek@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Bill C wrote:
> >>>
> >>
> >> Gotcha. I know I'm an *******.
> >> Anyway. You get the courts to stop turning them loose to re-offend
> >> and I'll stop pushing to make sure they can't re-offend.
> >> Bill C
> >
> > The point, since you seem to have missed it, is that a significant
> > proportion never offended in the first place.
>
>
> BS!
> They may not have committed this crime but are FAR from never had offended!!
> Look at all the cases. How many NEVER hurt a fly? NEVER had an existing rap
> sheet?

Stevie, have you got any evidence to support that claim? Or is it straight out of
your ass?

--
tanx,
Howard

Now it's raining pitchforks and women,
But I've already got a pitchfork...

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Sandy

01-04-1970, 01:18 AM

Dans le message de
news:7016735e-5346-42dd-806c-6e9d79a06988@l32g2000hse.googlegroups.com,
Bill C <tritonrider@verizon.net> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> On Jan 25, 8:51 pm, "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote:
>> Dans le message
>> denews:4e4d422b-096c-47af-a6ba-8a74f5c132ff@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com,
>> Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> a réfléchi, et puis a
>> déclaré :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 24, 5:13 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> Compare that with those folks turned loose that re-offend, or are
>>>> turned loose because shrinks think that prison is evil, and do
>>>> nasty **** to innocents. Lots more of those.
>>
>>> Dumbass -
>>
>>> Our country has the highest incarceration rates per capita of any
>>> nation in the world. We also have the highest crime rate per capita
>>> of any industrialized nation.
>>
>>> What does that tell us? That our incarceration methods aren't
>>> working.
>>
>>> It's because our system is set up to punish rather than
>>> rehabilitate. There is an 85% recidivism rate and it's because once
>>> a guy goes into prison for an extended period of time he becomes a
>>> hardened criminal.
>>
>>> Duh.
>>
>>> thanks,
>>
>>> K. Gringioni.
>>
>> Should we take your comment to mean that punishment is not a valid
>> means of
>> achieving changes in behavior? Not ever? Not partially? Maybe
>> abandon the
>> idea of prison as a correctional location altogether? Maybe just
>> accept bad
>> behavior as a byproduct of human interaction and accentuate the
>> positive? (A
>> song is trying hard to burst through, but my voice has been declared
>> PNG in
>> most countries I have visited.)
>> --
>> --
>> Sandy
>>
>> " La France est un pays extraordinaire, on sème des
>> fonctionnaires...il
>> pousse des impôts "
>> - Clémenceau- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Hey Sandy
> I'm gonna gree with Kurgan for the most part.
> The system does WAY too little towards rehabbing those who are first
> timers in non capital/rape crimes, non-violent, non-career. We need to
> give those people skills and follow on guidance.
> The parole system is a total snafu too, let alone follow up help.
> IMO the first goal of prison is to protect society from the
> criminals, and locking them up does this. We sure as hell don't need
> to be locking people up for possession of personal amounts of drugs,
> just dealers. Alternative programs for non-violent/young offenders.
> Screw the violent, career, child/multiple rapist types. Use 'em as
> labor, kill 'em whatever, as long as they aren't released to attack
> society again.
> Bill C

I didn't suggest that punishment is the sole purpose.
One observation - in France, jail terms, heavily oriented towards rehab, are
much, much shorter, and recidivism is much lower. On the other hand, the
French are even more intrusive into life after a person has been released.
Not to mention the level of "solving" cases by use of brute force. The
public seems happy with the arrangement, even though Sarko didn't really
achieve much during his term as Min Interior.

MagillaGorilla

01-04-1970, 01:18 AM

Bill C wrote:
> On Jan 25, 8:51 pm, "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote:
>
>>Dans le message denews:4e4d422b-096c-47af-a6ba-8a74f5c132ff@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com,
>>Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>On Jan 24, 5:13 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>Compare that with those folks turned loose that re-offend, or are
>>>>turned loose because shrinks think that prison is evil, and do nasty
>>>>**** to innocents. Lots more of those.
>>
>>>Dumbass -
>>
>>>Our country has the highest incarceration rates per capita of any
>>>nation in the world. We also have the highest crime rate per capita of
>>>any industrialized nation.
>>
>>>What does that tell us? That our incarceration methods aren't working.
>>
>>>It's because our system is set up to punish rather than rehabilitate.
>>>There is an 85% recidivism rate and it's because once a guy goes into
>>>prison for an extended period of time he becomes a hardened criminal.
>>
>>>Duh.
>>
>>>thanks,
>>
>>>K. Gringioni.
>>
>>Should we take your comment to mean that punishment is not a valid means of
>>achieving changes in behavior? Not ever? Not partially? Maybe abandon the
>>idea of prison as a correctional location altogether? Maybe just accept bad
>>behavior as a byproduct of human interaction and accentuate the positive? (A
>>song is trying hard to burst through, but my voice has been declared PNG in
>>most countries I have visited.)
>>--
>>--
>>Sandy
>>
>>" La France est un pays extraordinaire, on sème des fonctionnaires...il
>>pousse des impôts "
>>- Clémenceau- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>- Show quoted text -
>
>
> Hey Sandy
> I'm gonna gree with Kurgan for the most part.
> The system does WAY too little towards rehabbing those who are first
> timers in non capital/rape crimes, non-violent, non-career. We need to
> give those people skills and follow on guidance.
> The parole system is a total snafu too, let alone follow up help.
> IMO the first goal of prison is to protect society from the
> criminals, and locking them up does this. We sure as hell don't need
> to be locking people up for possession of personal amounts of drugs,
> just dealers. Alternative programs for non-violent/young offenders.
> Screw the violent, career, child/multiple rapist types. Use 'em as
> labor, kill 'em whatever, as long as they aren't released to attack
> society again.
> Bill C

Most crime on the street is related to drugs and committed by your
bottom-level user who needs to get high and is willing to commit
burglaries, robberies, and in some cases murder to get money so he can
get his next high. I support locking them up because they are the
source of most crime.

In fact, there was a study done that concluded that most murderers if
never prosecuted and let go would never murder again.

Thanks,

Magilla

Kyle Legate

01-04-1970, 01:18 AM

Bill C wrote:
> On Jan 26, 3:00 am, Kyle Legate <lega...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Bill C wrote:
>>
>>> Gotcha. I know I'm an *******.
>>> Anyway. You get the courts to stop turning them loose to re-offend
>>> and I'll stop pushing to make sure they can't re-offend.
>>> Bill C
>> The point, since you seem to have missed it, is that a significant
>> proportion never offended in the first place.
>
> Kyle there's a lot bigger group that have been turned loose to kill
> and rape again, than the State has killed innocents.
>
You can't say that because there's no statistics on how many innocents
were murdered by the state.

Howard Kveck

01-04-1970, 01:18 AM

In article <0c063a88-60b0-4de9-a004-28e6c1de9f39@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
Bill C <tritonrider@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Jan 26, 3:00*am, Kyle Legate <lega...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Bill C wrote:
> >
> > > Gotcha. I know I'm an *******.
> > > *Anyway. You get the courts to stop turning them loose to re-offend
> > > and I'll stop pushing to make sure they can't re-offend.
> > > *Bill C
> >
> > The point, since you seem to have missed it, is that a significant
> > proportion never offended in the first place.
>
> Kyle there's a lot bigger group that have been turned loose to kill
> and rape again, than the State has killed innocents. IMO the State, in
> turning those folks loose, is killing, and wrecking the lives of
> innocents. That goes for the people lobbying on their behalf too.
> I can live with the ones I want killed, there is noone taking
> responsibility for the rest.

Mike Huckabee sure isn't taking responsibility for Wayne Dumond.

--
tanx,
Howard

Now it's raining pitchforks and women,
But I've already got a pitchfork...

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

MagillaGorilla

01-04-1970, 01:18 AM

Bill C wrote:

> On Jan 26, 3:00 am, Kyle Legate <lega...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Bill C wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Gotcha. I know I'm an *******.
>>> Anyway. You get the courts to stop turning them loose to re-offend
>>>and I'll stop pushing to make sure they can't re-offend.
>>> Bill C
>>
>>The point, since you seem to have missed it, is that a significant
>>proportion never offended in the first place.
>
>
> Kyle there's a lot bigger group that have been turned loose to kill
> and rape again, than the State has killed innocents. IMO the State, in
> turning those folks loose, is killing, and wrecking the lives of
> innocents. That goes for the people lobbying on their behalf too.
> I can live with the ones I want killed, there is noone taking
> responsibility for the rest.
> Bill C

I like how you group all murder as "killing innocents" when in fact
there's 1st degree, 2nd degree, 3rd degree...and further delineations
therein (2nd degree manslaughter, 3rd degree manslaugher, etc.).

Most gratuitous murder is confined to gangs and inner city followed by
acts of domestic violence. Neither of those categories should affect
you so stop acting like you care or that it affects your quality of life
because neither are true.

Very few murders are stranger-on-stranger crimes. Most deaths that are
are the result of acts of reckless negligence like malpractice, DWI,
reckless driving, etc.

In fact, if you want to single out the biggest demographics of people
who kill other humans, it's probably:

1) doctors
2) drivers of cars
3) cigarette manufacturers

So don't go trying to get all righteous with me about murder. Do you
think that when our soldiers go over to another country and kill
someone, that is also defined as "killing of innocents?" Or are the
victims guilty simply because we said so?

Most of you people who get all fake-righteous about murder don't even
know what the **** murder is and you talk like a 4th grader ("killing
innocents"). You further define it based on you own PERSONAL
interpretation of who the good guy is and who the bad guy is. And your
defintion of good v. evil varies with the wind depending upon where your
politics lie.

So just drop this topic because it's obviously too sophisticated for you
dumbasses in here to discuss in any worthwhile manner.

Thanks,

Magilla

Fred Fredburger

01-04-1970, 01:18 AM

Bill C wrote:

> I can live with the ones I want killed, there is noone taking
> responsibility for the rest.

Well, so long as you can live with it I guess that makes it OK.

I'm indifferent to the genocide in Rwanda, so we've got that covered too.

Bill C

01-04-1970, 01:18 AM

On Jan 26, 10:37*am, "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote:

>
> I didn't suggest that punishment is the sole purpose.
> One observation - in France, jail terms, heavily oriented towards rehab, are
> much, much shorter, and recidivism is much lower. *On the other hand, the
> French are even more intrusive into life after a person has been released.
> Not to mention the level of "solving" cases by use of brute force. *The
> public seems happy with the arrangement, even though Sarko didn't really
> achieve much during his term as Min Interior.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Sandy I think a lot of our problems are rooted in the structure of our
society too. We've had large groups who've been marginalized for
centuries, and new ones coming in in waves.
That's what a lot of other countries are starting to experience, and
they are now facing the same types of violence.
Lots of our politicians, rather than face that fact, and deal with
it, are stripping rights from our citizenry. I don't think the
politicians have a quick fix, which is what people want, so they have
to be doing something to show they are keeping us safe. The cure is
worse than the threat in a lot of cases.
My only solutions are long term, education, inclusion, and hard work.
Unfortunately everyone wants something now, and claims to be a victim
to get it.
Me too. I want our constitution and it's guarantees back. Howard and
I agree on that one, and more than he'll allow.
Bill C
Bill C