The Fall of Cannondale as an opportunity

[Andre Jute]

That Cannondale is changing hands might make Cannondale bikes a bit
cheaper because people will fear they cannot get service or, a fear
already expressed on RBT, that the new owners will depress the image
so much that the bikes will have no secondhand value. But if the parts
are essentially service free, as in hub gears and premium Shimano
parts, it doesn't matter. And if you intend to keep your bike until it
lies down and dies, depreciation doesn't matter either. The Cannondale
Vintage 8 Ultra 2008 looks the business right up to the Brooks B17
seat; all it doesn't have that is desirable in a commuter is the hub
brakes, having discs brakes instead. It is also very pricey indeed:
Bonthrone Bikes in London sells it for 1250 sterling (ooooouch!). But
I presume Stateside prices are much more reasonable.
http://www.bonthronebikes.co.uk/516-226154
Someone in the market for this sort of bike who negotiates a deal
might be very satisfied for a long time. Read the impressive,
expensive spec (leather grips!), and weep with envy. -- Andre Jute

Cannondale Vintage 8 Ultra 2008 spec:

Frame - 28âEURO? Headshok Internal hubgear Int. Cablerouting.
Fork - Fatty Ultra 50mm 28âEURO? Disc only.
Rims - Shimano Alfine system wheelset Black.
Front Hub - Shimano Alfine system wheelset Black.
Rear Hub - Shimano Alfine system wheelset Black.
Spokes - Shimano Alfine system wheelset Black.
Tires - Vredestein Girando 37mm.
Pedals - Octopus 2
Crank - Truvativ 5D 1.0 38T for Hebie.
Chain - Sram PC-830
BB - Shimano BB-UN26
Rear Cogs - Shimano Nexus 18T
F. Derailleur - N/A
R. Derailleur - N/A
Shifters - Shimano Alfine trigger BLK
Handlebar - Street Comfort Black.
Stem - Headshok Adjustable.
Headset - Headshok.
Brakes - Shimano Hydraulic BR-M485
Brake Levers - Shimano Hydraulic BL-M485
Grips - Leather ergonomic.
Saddle - Brooks B17(s) Honey.
Seatpost - Post Modern Bracer Comp.
Rack - Cannondale Si Rack Steel Black.
Lights - Busch & Muller lumotec Topal Senso
- Toplight Senso XS
Chainguard - Hebie Chainglider Nexus.
Fenders - SKS P45 BLK for Si Rack.
Lock - N/A
Bottle/Cage - N/A
Kickstand - Pletscher Optima BLK with crank protector.

[datakoll]

On Feb 6, 6:57*pm, Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> That Cannondale is changing hands might make Cannondale bikes a bit
> cheaper because people will fear they cannot get service or, a fear
> already expressed on RBT, that the new owners will depress the image
> so much that the bikes will have no secondhand value. But if the parts
> are essentially service free, as in hub gears and premium Shimano
> parts, it doesn't matter. And if you intend to keep your bike until it
> lies down and dies, depreciation doesn't matter either. The Cannondale
> Vintage 8 Ultra 2008 looks the business right up to the Brooks B17
> seat; all it doesn't have that is desirable in a commuter is the hub
> brakes, having discs brakes instead. It is also very pricey indeed:
> Bonthrone Bikes in London sells it for 1250 sterling (ooooouch!). But
> I presume Stateside prices are much more reasonable.http://www.bonthronebikes.co.uk/516-226154
> Someone in the market for this sort of bike who negotiates a deal
> might be very satisfied for a long time. Read the impressive,
> expensive spec (leather grips!), and weep with envy. -- Andre Jute
>
> Cannondale Vintage 8 Ultra 2008 spec:
>
> * * * * * * * * Frame - 28âEURO? Headshok Internal hubgear Int. Cablerouting.
> * * * * * * * * Fork - Fatty Ultra 50mm 28âEURO? Disc only.
> * * * * * * * * Rims - Shimano Alfine system wheelset Black.
> * * * * * * * * Front Hub - Shimano Alfine system wheelset Black.
> * * * * * * * * Rear Hub - Shimano Alfine system wheelset Black.
> * * * * * * * * Spokes - Shimano Alfine system wheelset Black.
> * * * * * * * * Tires - Vredestein Girando 37mm.
> * * * * * * * * Pedals - Octopus 2
> * * * * * * * * Crank - Truvativ 5D 1.0 38T for Hebie.
> * * * * * * * * Chain - Sram PC-830
> * * * * * * * * BB - Shimano BB-UN26
> * * * * * * * * Rear Cogs - Shimano Nexus 18T
> * * * * * * * * F. Derailleur - N/A
> * * * * * * * * R. Derailleur - N/A
> * * * * * * * * Shifters - Shimano Alfine trigger BLK
> * * * * * * * * Handlebar - Street Comfort Black.
> * * * * * * * * Stem - Headshok Adjustable.
> * * * * * * * * Headset - Headshok.
> * * * * * * * * Brakes - Shimano Hydraulic BR-M485
> * * * * * * * * Brake Levers - Shimano Hydraulic BL-M485
> * * * * * * * * Grips - Leather ergonomic.
> * * * * * * * * Saddle - Brooks B17(s) Honey.
> * * * * * * * * Seatpost - Post Modern Bracer Comp.
> * * * * * * * * Rack - Cannondale Si Rack Steel Black.
> * * * * * * * * Lights - Busch & Muller lumotec Topal Senso
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *- Toplight Senso XS
> * * * * * * * * Chainguard - Hebie Chainglider Nexus.
> * * * * * * * * Fenders - SKS P45 BLK for Si Rack.
> * * * * * * * * Lock - N/A
> * * * * * * * * Bottle/Cage - N/A
> * * * * * * * * Kickstand - Pletscher Optima BLK with crank protector.

history sez no. consider the depression's effect on the auto industry.
what happened with the mortgag crisis is real money was sold several
times becoming unreal and greatly inflated unreal money (redeemable
for real money if you got out before the bust as always) unreal money
that became real when the ''community' found it unreal when the
creditors demanded yet more real money.
result is! there is no money and businesses like Cannondale (who are
more than capable of developing truely bad bad bad business planning)
cannot borrow money to generate more money. So they sellout to a
investor who has huge sums of unreal money made real before they go
bankrupt from not borrowing real money.

[landotter]

On Feb 6, 5:57 pm, Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> ejaculated pablum:
>(pablumsnip)

What about the macrame skirt guard spec?

[Rob Lindauer]

Andre Jute wrote:
The Cannondale
> Vintage 8 Ultra 2008 looks the business right up to the Brooks B17
> seat; all it doesn't have that is desirable in a commuter is the hub
> brakes, having discs brakes instead. It is also very pricey indeed:
> Bonthrone Bikes in London sells it for 1250 sterling (ooooouch!). But
> I presume Stateside prices are much more reasonable.
> http://www.bonthronebikes.co.uk/516-226154

That model (and others, like the Bad Boy 8 and the Bad Boy Rohloff) are
not listed in the US catalog at all. Maybe it's possible to order one
specially, assuming they're indeed built here... RL


--
Rob Lindauer - Please change "att" to "sbc" for my real email address

[Dan Birchall]

fiultra@yahoo.com (Andre Jute) wrote:
> That Cannondale is changing hands might make Cannondale bikes a bit
> cheaper because people will fear they cannot get service or, a fear
> already expressed on RBT, that the new owners will depress the image
> so much that the bikes will have no secondhand value. But if the parts
> are essentially service free, as in hub gears and premium Shimano
> parts, it doesn't matter. And if you intend to keep your bike until it
> lies down and dies, depreciation doesn't matter either.

I think "Fall" may be a bit of a loaded word here, considering the
value of the company appears to have roughly tripled since it last
changed hands about 5-6 years ago. ;)

But I certainly agree with everything else you said. In my life I've
owned 2 bikes pieced together by my cousin, 1 Murray bought at a flea
market, an Iverson bought at a police auction, a Marukin that I crazily
rode in USCF Juniors, and 2 Cannondales.

The non-Cannondales lasted me maybe a few years tops; I don't even
remember how they all died. (The Murray's axle bearings fell out.
Literally. While I was riding.) The first Cannondale made it a
decade and then got wrecked by a car. I hobbled into the local bike
shop with it the next day, frame and rims bent beyond repair, and
bought the second one; it's heading for a decade as well. I get its
"annual" maintenance about once every five years; should do that
again soon. :)

My wife's Cannondale is over a decade old now. My daughter has
been working her way up through Trek's kid bikes; she takes 4-5
years to outgrow them, and at that pace they're cheaper than
buying her a Wal*Mart bike each year and watching it fall apart.
Once she stops growing, I expect her to be on a Cannondale too,
presuming they're still around and making good bikes.

--
"Infirm indeed are my bones, and the hair of my head doth glisten with
grey: but never am I unblest."

[jim beam]

datakoll wrote:
> On Feb 6, 6:57�pm, Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> That Cannondale is changing hands might make Cannondale bikes a bit
>> cheaper because people will fear they cannot get service or, a fear
>> already expressed on RBT, that the new owners will depress the image
>> so much that the bikes will have no secondhand value. But if the parts
>> are essentially service free, as in hub gears and premium Shimano
>> parts, it doesn't matter. And if you intend to keep your bike until it
>> lies down and dies, depreciation doesn't matter either. The Cannondale
>> Vintage 8 Ultra 2008 looks the business right up to the Brooks B17
>> seat; all it doesn't have that is desirable in a commuter is the hub
>> brakes, having discs brakes instead. It is also very pricey indeed:
>> Bonthrone Bikes in London sells it for 1250 sterling (ooooouch!). But
>> I presume Stateside prices are much more reasonable.http://www.bonthronebikes.co.uk/516-226154
>> Someone in the market for this sort of bike who negotiates a deal
>> might be very satisfied for a long time. Read the impressive,
>> expensive spec (leather grips!), and weep with envy. -- Andre Jute
>>
>> Cannondale Vintage 8 Ultra 2008 spec:
>>
>> � � � � � � � � Frame - 28�EURO? Headshok Internal hubgear Int. Cablerouting.
>> � � � � � � � � Fork - Fatty Ultra 50mm 28�EURO? Disc only.
>> � � � � � � � � Rims - Shimano Alfine system wheelset Black.
>> � � � � � � � � Front Hub - Shimano Alfine system wheelset Black.
>> � � � � � � � � Rear Hub - Shimano Alfine system wheelset Black.
>> � � � � � � � � Spokes - Shimano Alfine system wheelset Black.
>> � � � � � � � � Tires - Vredestein Girando 37mm.
>> � � � � � � � � Pedals - Octopus 2
>> � � � � � � � � Crank - Truvativ 5D 1.0 38T for Hebie.
>> � � � � � � � � Chain - Sram PC-830
>> � � � � � � � � BB - Shimano BB-UN26
>> � � � � � � � � Rear Cogs - Shimano Nexus 18T
>> � � � � � � � � F. Derailleur - N/A
>> � � � � � � � � R. Derailleur - N/A
>> � � � � � � � � Shifters - Shimano Alfine trigger BLK
>> � � � � � � � � Handlebar - Street Comfort Black.
>> � � � � � � � � Stem - Headshok Adjustable.
>> � � � � � � � � Headset - Headshok.
>> � � � � � � � � Brakes - Shimano Hydraulic BR-M485
>> � � � � � � � � Brake Levers - Shimano Hydraulic BL-M485
>> � � � � � � � � Grips - Leather ergonomic.
>> � � � � � � � � Saddle - Brooks B17(s) Honey.
>> � � � � � � � � Seatpost - Post Modern Bracer Comp.
>> � � � � � � � � Rack - Cannondale Si Rack Steel Black.
>> � � � � � � � � Lights - Busch & Muller lumotec Topal Senso
>> � � � � � � � � � � � � � � �- Toplight Senso XS
>> � � � � � � � � Chainguard - Hebie Chainglider Nexus.
>> � � � � � � � � Fenders - SKS P45 BLK for Si Rack.
>> � � � � � � � � Lock - N/A
>> � � � � � � � � Bottle/Cage - N/A
>> � � � � � � � � Kickstand - Pletscher Optima BLK with crank protector.
>
> history sez no. consider the depression's effect on the auto industry.
> what happened with the mortgag crisis is real money was sold several
> times becoming unreal and greatly inflated unreal money (redeemable
> for real money if you got out before the bust as always) unreal money
> that became real when the ''community' found it unreal when the
> creditors demanded yet more real money.
> result is! there is no money and businesses like Cannondale (who are
> more than capable of developing truely bad bad bad business planning)
> cannot borrow money to generate more money. So they sellout to a
> investor who has huge sums of unreal money made real before they go
> bankrupt from not borrowing real money.


great synopsis!

[Tom Sherman]

datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
> ...
> history sez no. consider the depression's effect on the auto industry.
> what happened with the mortgag crisis is real money was sold several
> times becoming unreal and greatly inflated unreal money (redeemable
> for real money if you got out before the bust as always) unreal money
> that became real when the ''community' found it unreal when the
> creditors demanded yet more real money....

What mortgage crisis? Now that all the speculators and those who lived
beyond their means are getting their comeuppance, maybe us hard working
frugal people without inherited wealth can finally afford to stop
renting and actually buy an abode.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

[datakoll]

On Feb 6, 11:41Â*pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> datakoll wrote:
> > On Feb 6, 6:57�pm, Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> That Cannondale is changing hands might make Cannondale bikes a bit
> >> cheaper because people will fear they cannot get service or, a fear
> >> already expressed on RBT, that the new owners will depress the image
> >> so much that the bikes will have no secondhand value. But if the parts
> >> are essentially service free, as in hub gears and premium Shimano
> >> parts, it doesn't matter. And if you intend to keep your bike until it
> >> lies down and dies, depreciation doesn't matter either. The Cannondale
> >> Vintage 8 Ultra 2008 looks the business right up to the Brooks B17
> >> seat; all it doesn't have that is desirable in a commuter is the hub
> >> brakes, having discs brakes instead. It is also very pricey indeed:
> >> Bonthrone Bikes in London sells it for 1250 sterling (ooooouch!). But
> >> I presume Stateside prices are much more reasonable.http://www.bonthronebikes.co.uk/516-226154
> >> Someone in the market for this sort of bike who negotiates a deal
> >> might be very satisfied for a long time. Read the impressive,
> >> expensive spec (leather grips!), and weep with envy. -- Andre Jute
>
> >> Cannondale Vintage 8 Ultra 2008 spec:
>
> >> � � � � � � � � Frame - 28�EURO? Headshok Internal hubgear Int. Cablerouting.
> >> � � � � � � � � Fork - Fatty Ultra 50mm 28�EURO? Disc only.
> >> � � � � � � � � Rims - Shimano Alfine system wheelset Black.
> >> � � � � � � � � Front Hub - Shimano Alfine system wheelset Black.
> >> � � � � � � � � Rear Hub - Shimano Alfine system wheelset Black.
> >> � � � � � � � � Spokes - Shimano Alfine system wheelset Black.
> >> � � � � � � � � Tires - Vredestein Girando 37mm.
> >> � � � � � � � � Pedals - Octopus 2
> >> � � � � � � � � Crank - Truvativ 5D 1.0 38T for Hebie.
> >> � � � � � � � � Chain - Sram PC-830
> >> � � � � � � � � BB - Shimano BB-UN26
> >> � � � � � � � � Rear Cogs - Shimano Nexus 18T
> >> � � � � � � � � F. Derailleur - N/A
> >> � � � � � � � � R. Derailleur - N/A
> >> � � � � � � � � Shifters - Shimano Alfine trigger BLK
> >> � � � � � � � � Handlebar - Street Comfort Black.
> >> � � � � � � � � Stem - Headshok Adjustable.
> >> � � � � � � � � Headset - Headshok.
> >> � � � � � � � � Brakes - Shimano Hydraulic BR-M485
> >> � � � � � � � � Brake Levers - Shimano Hydraulic BL-M485
> >> � � � � � � � � Grips - Leather ergonomic.
> >> � � � � � � � � Saddle - Brooks B17(s) Honey.
> >> � � � � � � � � Seatpost - Post Modern Bracer Comp.
> >> � � � � � � � � Rack - Cannondale Si Rack Steel Black.
> >> � � � � � � � � Lights - Busch & Muller lumotec Topal Senso
> >> � � � � � � � � � � � � � � �- Toplight Senso XS
> >> � � � � � � � � Chainguard - Hebie Chainglider Nexus.
> >> � � � � � � � � Fenders - SKS P45 BLK for Si Rack.
> >> � � � � � � � � Lock - N/A
> >> � � � � � � � � Bottle/Cage - N/A
> >> � � � � � � � � Kickstand - Pletscher Optima BLK with crank protector.
>
> > history sez no. consider the depression's effect on the auto industry.
> > what happened with the mortgag crisis is real money was sold several
> > times becoming unreal and greatly inflated unreal money (redeemable
> > for real money if you got out before the bust as always) unreal money
> > that became real when the ''community' Â*found it unreal when the
> > creditors demanded yet more real money.
> > result is! there is no money and businesses like Cannondale (who are
> > more than capable of developing truely bad bad bad business planning)
> > cannot borrow money to generate more money. So they sellout to a
> > investor who has huge sums of unreal money made real before they go
> > bankrupt from not borrowing real money.
>
> great synopsis!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

brutal. one national emergency after another. beyond comprehension.
ceptin' the bubble collapsed before the election. and companies like
Cannondale, Newark and Burnadino get the Scrooge. Companies like
Cannondale are (were) a pillar of the economic engine.

[datakoll]

On Feb 7, 12:16*am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 6, 5:57 pm, Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> ejaculated pablum:
>
> >(pablumsnip)
>
> What about the macrame skirt guard spec?

the Bonneville roadster in black powder coat knocked my socks off!

[Andre Jute]

On Feb 7, 5:16*am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What about the macrame skirt guard spec?

Why? Aren't you a bit old to be a cross-dresser?

[datakoll]

On Feb 7, 2:06*am, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
wrote:
> datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
>
> > ...
> > history sez no. consider the depression's effect on the auto industry.
> > what happened with the mortgag crisis is real money was sold several
> > times becoming unreal and greatly inflated unreal money (redeemable
> > for real money if you got out before the bust as always) unreal money
> > that became real when the ''community' *found it unreal when the
> > creditors demanded yet more real money....
>
> What mortgage crisis? Now that all the speculators and those who lived
> beyond their means are getting their comeuppance, maybe us hard working
> frugal people without inherited wealth can finally afford to stop
> renting and actually buy an abode.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

what, you didn't invest in real estate? you didn't watch the floorpans
either AND you ride an incumbent in cowville. A new definiton of
frugal?

[Andre Jute]

On Feb 7, 11:12*am, Rob Lindauer <rli...@attglobal.net> wrote:
> Andre Jute wrote:
>
> The Cannondale
>
> > Vintage 8 Ultra 2008 looks the business right up to the Brooks B17
> > seat; all it doesn't have that is desirable in a commuter is the hub
> > brakes, having discs brakes instead. It is also very pricey indeed:
> > Bonthrone Bikes in London sells it for 1250 sterling (ooooouch!). But
> > I presume Stateside prices are much more reasonable.
> >http://www.bonthronebikes.co.uk/516-226154
>
> That model (and others, like the Bad Boy 8 and the Bad Boy Rohloff) are
> not listed in the US catalog at all. *Maybe it's possible to order one
> specially, assuming they're indeed built here... *RL
>
> --
> Rob Lindauer - Please change "att" to "sbc" for my real email address

I suspected as much. US bike makers (except possibly Electra)
apparently don't think they have a home market for city bikes;
European makers seem to agree, as the efforts made to export Dutch
bikes, for instance, to the States have been less than half-hearted.
Trek for several years made noises at shows but, as far as I know,
not even the semi-conventional L series (like my Cyber Nexus but
downspecced -- by European standards -- to somewhere well above the
Electra Amsterdam) has ever been offered in the States. Instead Trek
offers the Lime, by the standards of commuters a bit toylike, a
different sort of bike; it is almost as if Trek, and the other US bike
makers who offer city bikes of one sort or another in Europe, think
there are no serious city commuters in the States. Who knows, they may
be right, the market may be too small; we haven't seen their market
research. I suspect that if there were a market in the US, Giant, the
Taiwanese corporation which is one of the big three in city bikes in
the Benelux, would be trying to service it.

Andre Jute
Niche King

[Andre Jute]

On Feb 7, 11:32*am, Dan Birchall <nob...@imaginary-
host.danbirchall.com> wrote:
> fiul...@yahoo.com (Andre Jute) wrote:
> > *That Cannondale is changing hands might make Cannondale bikes a bit
> > *cheaper because people will fear they cannot get service or, a fear
> > *already expressed on RBT, that the new owners will depress the image
> > *so much that the bikes will have no secondhand value. But if the parts
> > *are essentially service free, as in hub gears and premium Shimano
> > *parts, it doesn't matter. And if you intend to keep your bike until it
> > *lies down and dies, depreciation doesn't matter either.
>
> I think "Fall" may be a bit of a loaded word here, considering the
> value of the company appears to have roughly tripled since it last
> changed hands about 5-6 years ago. ;)

Thanks for straightening that out for me, Dan. I'll let your title
stand as more apt. Would that Raleigh when it was in dire straights
about thirty years ago had fallen into the hands of investors who were
interested in value rather than asset-stripping a great name.
>
> But I certainly agree with everything else you said. *In my life I've
> owned 2 bikes pieced together by my cousin, 1 Murray bought at a flea
> market, an Iverson bought at a police auction, a Marukin that I crazily
> rode in USCF Juniors, and 2 Cannondales. *
>
> The non-Cannondales lasted me maybe a few years tops; I don't even
> remember how they all died. *(The Murray's axle bearings fell out.
> Literally. *While I was riding.) *The first Cannondale made it a
> decade and then got wrecked by a car. *I hobbled into the local bike
> shop with it the next day, frame and rims bent beyond repair, and
> bought the second one; it's heading for a decade as well. *I get its
> "annual" maintenance about once every five years; should do that
> again soon. :)
>
> My wife's Cannondale is over a decade old now. *My daughter has
> been working her way up through Trek's kid bikes; she takes 4-5
> years to outgrow them, and at that pace they're cheaper than
> buying her a Wal*Mart bike each year and watching it fall apart.
> Once she stops growing, I expect her to be on a Cannondale too,
> presuming they're still around and making good bikes.
>
> --
> "Infirm indeed are my bones, and the hair of my head doth glisten with
> *grey: but never am I unblest."

Hell man, with an accolade like that, Cannondale starts to seem a
desirable brand, and I can see why so many who know the bikes worry
that the new owners might be quick-buck merchants. But you do make it
seem as if they would be shooting themselves in the foot if they
cheapened the Cannondale bikes and with the bikes the name.

Andre Jute
It takes a generation to build up a brand, and two years or less to
wreck it -- Commodore J Walter Thomson, founder of the first modern
advertising agency*

*Mind you, his judgement was not always so perfect: in 1916, having
sold out, on his way out of the building, in the elevator Thomson said
an acquaintance, "I got out just in time. The advertising agency
bubble has burst."

[Tom Sherman]

datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
> On Feb 7, 2:06 am, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
>>
>>> ...
>>> history sez no. consider the depression's effect on the auto industry.
>>> what happened with the mortgag crisis is real money was sold several
>>> times becoming unreal and greatly inflated unreal money (redeemable
>>> for real money if you got out before the bust as always) unreal money
>>> that became real when the ''community' found it unreal when the
>>> creditors demanded yet more real money....
>> What mortgage crisis? Now that all the speculators and those who lived
>> beyond their means are getting their comeuppance, maybe us hard working
>> frugal people without inherited wealth can finally afford to stop
>> renting and actually buy an abode.
>>
>
> what, you didn't invest in real estate?

Hard to invest in real estate when one owes more in student loans and
uninsured medical expenses than all other assets combined. It took me
over six years after finishing graduate school to stop having a negative
net financial worth.

> you didn't watch the floorpans either

My "Wabbit" was twelve years old when it was given to me. Just making it
road legal (repairs to exhaust system and lights required by corrosion)
cost more than the resale value of the car.

> AND you ride an incumbent in cowville.

No, Andrew Muzi is the one in "cowville" - this event is just a short
walk from his shop: <http://www.danecountydairy.com/dairycows>. I am in
Beer City to the east.

> A new definiton of frugal?

Well, I have adopted three (3) orphans [1], but they found me.

[1] Photos at <http://www.flickr.com/photos/19704682@N08/>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

[jim beam]

datakoll wrote:
> On Feb 6, 11:41 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> datakoll wrote:
>>> On Feb 6, 6:57�pm, Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> That Cannondale is changing hands might make Cannondale bikes a bit
>>>> cheaper because people will fear they cannot get service or, a fear
>>>> already expressed on RBT, that the new owners will depress the image
>>>> so much that the bikes will have no secondhand value. But if the parts
>>>> are essentially service free, as in hub gears and premium Shimano
>>>> parts, it doesn't matter. And if you intend to keep your bike until it
>>>> lies down and dies, depreciation doesn't matter either. The Cannondale
>>>> Vintage 8 Ultra 2008 looks the business right up to the Brooks B17
>>>> seat; all it doesn't have that is desirable in a commuter is the hub
>>>> brakes, having discs brakes instead. It is also very pricey indeed:
>>>> Bonthrone Bikes in London sells it for 1250 sterling (ooooouch!). But
>>>> I presume Stateside prices are much more reasonable.http://www.bonthronebikes.co.uk/516-226154
>>>> Someone in the market for this sort of bike who negotiates a deal
>>>> might be very satisfied for a long time. Read the impressive,
>>>> expensive spec (leather grips!), and weep with envy. -- Andre Jute
>>>> Cannondale Vintage 8 Ultra 2008 spec:
>>>> � � � � � � � � Frame - 28�EURO? Headshok Internal hubgear Int. Cablerouting.
>>>> � � � � � � � � Fork - Fatty Ultra 50mm 28�EURO? Disc only.
>>>> � � � � � � � � Rims - Shimano Alfine system wheelset Black.
>>>> � � � � � � � � Front Hub - Shimano Alfine system wheelset Black.
>>>> � � � � � � � � Rear Hub - Shimano Alfine system wheelset Black.
>>>> � � � � � � � � Spokes - Shimano Alfine system wheelset Black.
>>>> � � � � � � � � Tires - Vredestein Girando 37mm.
>>>> � � � � � � � � Pedals - Octopus 2
>>>> � � � � � � � � Crank - Truvativ 5D 1.0 38T for Hebie.
>>>> � � � � � � � � Chain - Sram PC-830
>>>> � � � � � � � � BB - Shimano BB-UN26
>>>> � � � � � � � � Rear Cogs - Shimano Nexus 18T
>>>> � � � � � � � � F. Derailleur - N/A
>>>> � � � � � � � � R. Derailleur - N/A
>>>> � � � � � � � � Shifters - Shimano Alfine trigger BLK
>>>> � � � � � � � � Handlebar - Street Comfort Black.
>>>> � � � � � � � � Stem - Headshok Adjustable.
>>>> � � � � � � � � Headset - Headshok.
>>>> � � � � � � � � Brakes - Shimano Hydraulic BR-M485
>>>> � � � � � � � � Brake Levers - Shimano Hydraulic BL-M485
>>>> � � � � � � � � Grips - Leather ergonomic.
>>>> � � � � � � � � Saddle - Brooks B17(s) Honey.
>>>> � � � � � � � � Seatpost - Post Modern Bracer Comp.
>>>> � � � � � � � � Rack - Cannondale Si Rack Steel Black.
>>>> � � � � � � � � Lights - Busch & Muller lumotec Topal Senso
>>>> � � � � � � � � � � � � � � �- Toplight Senso XS
>>>> � � � � � � � � Chainguard - Hebie Chainglider Nexus.
>>>> � � � � � � � � Fenders - SKS P45 BLK for Si Rack.
>>>> � � � � � � � � Lock - N/A
>>>> � � � � � � � � Bottle/Cage - N/A
>>>> � � � � � � � � Kickstand - Pletscher Optima BLK with crank protector.
>>> history sez no. consider the depression's effect on the auto industry.
>>> what happened with the mortgag crisis is real money was sold several
>>> times becoming unreal and greatly inflated unreal money (redeemable
>>> for real money if you got out before the bust as always) unreal money
>>> that became real when the ''community' found it unreal when the
>>> creditors demanded yet more real money.
>>> result is! there is no money and businesses like Cannondale (who are
>>> more than capable of developing truely bad bad bad business planning)
>>> cannot borrow money to generate more money. So they sellout to a
>>> investor who has huge sums of unreal money made real before they go
>>> bankrupt from not borrowing real money.
>> great synopsis!- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> brutal. one national emergency after another. beyond comprehension.
> ceptin' the bubble collapsed before the election.

"whoops".

reminds me of one of the "f" jokes...

"Who's gonna f***ing find out?"
- Richard Nixon



> and companies like
> Cannondale, Newark and Burnadino get the Scrooge. Companies like
> Cannondale are (were) a pillar of the economic engine.

[Tom Sherman]

Andre Jute wrote:
> ...
> It takes a generation to build up a brand, and two years or less to
> wreck it -- Commodore J Walter Thomson, founder of the first modern
> advertising agency*....

Well, if I see the "Paramount" name on a cheap piece of junk made in
mainland (sorry Jobst) China, I think I will be ill.

The greatest trashing of names has occurred in the audio industry, where
names like Scott and Fisher were slapped on low-fi commodities.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

[Jay Beattie]

On Feb 7, 7:43*pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
wrote:
> Andre Jute wrote:
> > ...
> > It takes a generation to build up a brand, and two years or less to
> > wreck it -- Commodore J Walter Thomson, founder of *the first modern
> > advertising agency*....
>
> Well, if I see the "Paramount" name on a cheap piece of junk made in
> mainland (sorry Jobst) China, I think I will be ill.
>
> The greatest trashing of names has occurred in the audio industry, where
> names like Scott and Fisher were slapped on low-fi commodities.

Egads, Tom, how old are you? Fisher was hi-fi in the 60s and tanked
in the '70s, IIRC. That brand was pretty much gone while there were
still tube testers at the supermarket. With that said, I cannot think
of an American brand from my youth that has not been trashed --
Magnavox, RCA, Westinghouse for example. When it comes to mid-fi
consumer electronics (the standard fare of Best Buy, etc.), an old
American brand name is a big red flag -- actually, a big red flag with
gold stars. --- Jay Beattie.

[Andre Jute]

On Feb 8, 3:43*am, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
wrote:
> Andre Jute wrote:
> > ...
> > It takes a generation to build up a brand, and two years or less to
> > wreck it -- Commodore J Walter Thomson, founder of *the first modern
> > advertising agency*....
>
> Well, if I see the "Paramount" name on a cheap piece of junk made in
> mainland (sorry Jobst) China, I think I will be ill.
>
> The greatest trashing of names has occurred in the audio industry, where
> names like Scott and Fisher were slapped on low-fi commodities.

There is one notable example where Chinese ownership has revitalized a
famous audio brand without cheapening it, and that is QUAD. I have
QUAD electrostatic speakers and QUAD amps and CD players from the
Peter Walker era which I service or rebuild myself as required, and I
cannot see that the Chinese developments of these iconic products are
in any way inferior; I would certainly not hesitate to buy the Chinese
QUAD products new if I didn't already have QUAD hi-fi that will last
the rest of my life.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

[Tom Sherman]

Jay Beattie wrote:
> On Feb 7, 7:43 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> Andre Jute wrote:
>>> ...
>>> It takes a generation to build up a brand, and two years or less to
>>> wreck it -- Commodore J Walter Thomson, founder of the first modern
>>> advertising agency*....
>> Well, if I see the "Paramount" name on a cheap piece of junk made in
>> mainland (sorry Jobst) China, I think I will be ill.
>>
>> The greatest trashing of names has occurred in the audio industry, where
>> names like Scott and Fisher were slapped on low-fi commodities.
>
> Egads, Tom, how old are you?

Not old enough to have seen any of the classic products new.

> Fisher was hi-fi in the 60s and tanked
> in the '70s, IIRC. That brand was pretty much gone while there were
> still tube testers at the supermarket.

However, the Fisher name is kept alive as the home of the NYP:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avery_Fisher_Hall>.

These products do NOT look promising:
<http://www.fisherav.com/products.html>.

> With that said, I cannot think
> of an American brand from my youth that has not been trashed --
> Magnavox, RCA, Westinghouse for example.

The exception? <http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/>.

> When it comes to mid-fi
> consumer electronics (the standard fare of Best Buy, etc.), an old
> American brand name is a big red flag -- actually, a big red flag with
> gold stars.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful