Alex Rims DM18 Rim Joint - Experiences????

[daveornee]

Those who have built Alex Rims DM18; what is your experience with
getting the wheel true and spoke tension balance at the rim joint?
Specifically, how accurate can you get both lateral and radial true
keeping spoke tension balance 5%?
I would also welcome comments comparing and contrasting this model to
other Alex Rims models, especially Adventurer.... as well as other rims
of this general category.
Also, what experience with the external rim wear indicator?


--
daveornee

[landotter]

On Feb 7, 2:53 pm, daveornee <daveornee.34f...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> Those who have built Alex Rims DM18; what is your experience with
> getting the wheel true and spoke tension balance at the rim joint?

Since nobody else has replied, I'll share my limited hands on
impression with that rim. I got a city bike with those rims OEM about
8 years ago. As always, I dialed in the wheels, evening out tension by
ear and building it up a good 1/2 turn, destressing, then a retrue.
Seemed to be very very round, and most impressively, stayed true for a
good 20-30K till the bike was stolen. If I was building up some
bombproof wheels for a solo rider, I'd look no further. Sorry if I can
only offer non-technical anecdotal advice, but it's a great strong rim
in my experience--and very round. All the other Alex rims I've dealt
with and the set I built have been equally impressive. The set I built
was one of their cheaper single walls for an older bike--and round and
true as can be. The Adventurer rims are wonderful as well--but I
wouldn't bother spending the five clams more, unless you think they're
prettier.

As far as the wear indicator, it might be cool if you live and ride in
an environment wear rim wear is an issue, like Seattle. Otherwise,
it's a "meh" feature, that requires a planing of the resulting ridge
from your brake pads every now and again.

[Chalo]

daveornee wrote:
>
> Those who have built Alex Rims DM18; what is your experience with
> getting the wheel true and spoke tension balance at the rim joint?

I've never had an issue with them. Usually with pinned rims from
whatever manufacturer, I have to tighten the spokes immediately
adjacent to the joint a bit more than the others. I consider that
normal.

> Specifically, how accurate can you get both lateral and radial true
> keeping spoke tension balance 5%?

My usual experience is that the spokes at the joint need >5% higher
tension to bring the wheel to a round shape. Sometimes, not often,
there is a lateral kick at the joint that requires the tension to be
uneven there. I don't associate this specifically with Alex or any
other particular manufacturer's rims.

> I would also welcome comments comparing and contrasting this model to
> other Alex Rims models, especially Adventurer.... as well as other rims
> of this general category.

Adventurer is slightly deeper, but about the same width and weight.
It should have higher radial stiffness. It looks a little fancier
cosmetically than the DM18, but it is black (which IMO doesn't go with
everything). I like the Adventurer a little better when I have the
choice and it matches the bike's look, but I consider either one
stronger and a better choice than Mavic's A719, Sun's CR18 or
Velocity's Dyad.

I understand that DM18 comes in versions with and without grommets,
and I would always choose the grommeted version given the option.

> Also, what experience with the external rim wear indicator?

I've never worn one down, on an Alex rim or any other. If I rode
where such things were necessary, I'd use hub brakes on my rain bike
(and I did).

Chalo

[Dan Burkhart]

daveornee Wrote:
> Those who have built Alex Rims DM18; what is your experience with
> getting the wheel true and spoke tension balance at the rim joint?
> Specifically, how accurate can you get both lateral and radial true
> keeping spoke tension balance 5%?
> I would also welcome comments comparing and contrasting this model to
> other Alex Rims models, especially Adventurer.... as well as other rims
> of this general category.
> Also, what experience with the external rim wear indicator?

In my opinion, the DM18 rim is the best bang for the buck value out
there.
Very easy to build with, round, true, and tough. Have not noticed any
tension balance issues at the rim joint.
I also stock lots of prebuilt wheels with DM18s for the inevitable
rash of replacements we sell to the kids that trash their single wall
rims jumping curbs and stuff. I can sell a wheel with a DM 18 rim for
about six bucks more than the same hub in a single wall rim. It's almost
always an easy sell.
I'm using them on two of my own bikes.
Dan


--
Dan Burkhart

[daveornee]

landotter Wrote:
> On Feb 7, 2:53 pm, daveornee <daveornee.34f...@no-
> mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> > Those who have built Alex Rims DM18; what is your experience with
> > getting the wheel true and spoke tension balance at the rim joint?
>
> Since nobody else has replied, I'll share my limited hands on
> impression with that rim. I got a city bike with those rims OEM about
> 8 years ago. As always, I dialed in the wheels, evening out tension by
> ear and building it up a good 1/2 turn, destressing, then a retrue.
> Seemed to be very very round, and most impressively, stayed true for a
> good 20-30K till the bike was stolen. If I was building up some
> bombproof wheels for a solo rider, I'd look no further. Sorry if I can
> only offer non-technical anecdotal advice, but it's a great strong rim
> in my experience--and very round. All the other Alex rims I've dealt
> with and the set I built have been equally impressive. The set I built
> was one of their cheaper single walls for an older bike--and round and
> true as can be. The Adventurer rims are wonderful as well--but I
> wouldn't bother spending the five clams more, unless you think they're
> prettier.
>
> As far as the wear indicator, it might be cool if you live and ride in
> an environment wear rim wear is an issue, like Seattle. Otherwise,
> it's a "meh" feature, that requires a planing of the resulting ridge
> from your brake pads every now and again.
Thanks for that input.
L.O.L. on the ridge in the brake pads fron the wear indicator and
having to plane off the ridge.
Yes, I looked at both of them and wish the Adventurer was in silver,
but OH WELL!


--
daveornee

[Dan Burkhart]

Chalo Wrote:
> daveornee wrote:
> >
> > Those who have built Alex Rims DM18; what is your experience with
> > getting the wheel true and spoke tension balance at the rim joint?
>
> I've never had an issue with them. Usually with pinned rims from
> whatever manufacturer, I have to tighten the spokes immediately
> adjacent to the joint a bit more than the others. I consider that
> normal.
>
> > Specifically, how accurate can you get both lateral and radial true
> > keeping spoke tension balance 5%?
>
> My usual experience is that the spokes at the joint need >5% higher
> tension to bring the wheel to a round shape. Sometimes, not often,
> there is a lateral kick at the joint that requires the tension to be
> uneven there. I don't associate this specifically with Alex or any
> other particular manufacturer's rims.
>
> > I would also welcome comments comparing and contrasting this model
> to
> > other Alex Rims models, especially Adventurer.... as well as other
> rims
> > of this general category.
>
> Adventurer is slightly deeper, but about the same width and weight.
> It should have higher radial stiffness. It looks a little fancier
> cosmetically than the DM18, but it is black (which IMO doesn't go with
> everything). I like the Adventurer a little better when I have the
> choice and it matches the bike's look, but I consider either one
> stronger and a better choice than Mavic's A719, Sun's CR18 or
> Velocity's Dyad.
>
> I understand that DM18 comes in versions with and without grommets,
> and I would always choose the grommeted version given the option.
>
> > Also, what experience with the external rim wear indicator?
>
> I've never worn one down, on an Alex rim or any other. If I rode
> where such things were necessary, I'd use hub brakes on my rain bike
> (and I did).
>
> Chalo
I couldn't say whether Alex makes an eyeletted version of the 36 hole
rim. I have two suppliers for these rims, and neither one carries a 36
hole with eyelets. 32 hole rims are available with or without.
This applies to both 26" and 700c.
Dan


--
Dan Burkhart

[daveornee]

Chalo Wrote:
> daveornee wrote:
> >
> > Those who have built Alex Rims DM18; what is your experience with
> > getting the wheel true and spoke tension balance at the rim joint?
>
> I've never had an issue with them. Usually with pinned rims from
> whatever manufacturer, I have to tighten the spokes immediately
> adjacent to the joint a bit more than the others. I consider that
> normal.
>
> > Specifically, how accurate can you get both lateral and radial true
> > keeping spoke tension balance 5%?
>
> My usual experience is that the spokes at the joint need >5% higher
> tension to bring the wheel to a round shape. Sometimes, not often,
> there is a lateral kick at the joint that requires the tension to be
> uneven there. I don't associate this specifically with Alex or any
> other particular manufacturer's rims.
>
> > I would also welcome comments comparing and contrasting this model
> to
> > other Alex Rims models, especially Adventurer.... as well as other
> rims
> > of this general category.
>
> Adventurer is slightly deeper, but about the same width and weight.
> It should have higher radial stiffness. It looks a little fancier
> cosmetically than the DM18, but it is black (which IMO doesn't go with
> everything). I like the Adventurer a little better when I have the
> choice and it matches the bike's look, but I consider either one
> stronger and a better choice than Mavic's A719, Sun's CR18 or
> Velocity's Dyad.
>
> I understand that DM18 comes in versions with and without grommets,
> and I would always choose the grommeted version given the option.
>
> > Also, what experience with the external rim wear indicator?
>
> I've never worn one down, on an Alex rim or any other. If I rode
> where such things were necessary, I'd use hub brakes on my rain bike
> (and I did).
>
> Chalo
I was hoping you would reply too. Thank you for your comments and
observations.
Your input always gets me looking into something more: what hub brakes
have you had the best results with?


--
daveornee

[daveornee]

Dan Burkhart Wrote:
> In my opinion, the DM18 rim is the best bang for the buck value out
> there.
> Very easy to build with, round, true, and tough. Have not noticed any
> tension balance issues at the rim joint.
> I also stock lots of prebuilt wheels with DM18s for the inevitable
> rash of replacements we sell to the kids that trash their single wall
> rims jumping curbs and stuff. I can sell a wheel with a DM 18 rim for
> about six bucks more than the same hub in a single wall rim. It's almost
> always an easy sell.
> I'm using them on two of my own bikes.
> Dan
It is good to hear your comments.
I work with lots of commuters and heavy riders.
Even with more mature riders, the roads around here will swallow your
whole bicycle and crunch a rim relatively easily. I am trying to
encourage year-round-riding with fatter tires and sturdier rims that
don't cost an-arm-and-a-leg to replace. DM18 looks like it could be the
one.
Eyelets are a nice addition. It would be nice if Alex gave the ERD
with and without eyelets. I estimate that eyelets add ~4 mm to the
ERD.
Without being "commercial" about it; where is your shop?


--
daveornee

[John Everett]

On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 01:11:26 +1100, Dan Burkhart
<Dan.Burkhart.34gtz1@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:

>
>Chalo Wrote:
>> I understand that DM18 comes in versions with and without grommets,
>> and I would always choose the grommeted version given the option.
>>
>> > Also, what experience with the external rim wear indicator?
>>
>> I've never worn one down, on an Alex rim or any other. If I rode
>> where such things were necessary, I'd use hub brakes on my rain bike
>> (and I did).
>>
>> Chalo
>I couldn't say whether Alex makes an eyeletted version of the 36 hole
>rim. I have two suppliers for these rims, and neither one carries a 36
>hole with eyelets. 32 hole rims are available with or without.
>This applies to both 26" and 700c.
>Dan

Funny thing, following my Sun CR18 thread a couple of weeks ago where
several posters recommended the Alex DM18, I ordered a pair. I just
got back from picking them up at the LBS, and yes the DM18s come in 36
hole, 700C, with eyelets. :-)


--
jeverett3<AT>sbcglobal<DOT>net (John V. Everett)

[Chalo]

daveornee wrote:
>
> Your input always gets me looking into something more: what hub brakes
> have you had the best results with?

I have had great results from Sachs VT5000 and analogous brakes
(VT3000, HT5020, and drums built into Sachs/SRAM gearhubs). They are
far from the strongest brakes I have used, but as they break in fully,
I am continually surprised at how strong they eventually become. They
are fault-free, drag-free, and mostly quiet. What few noises they
make are truck-like-- an occasional high ringing squeal at low speed
and high braking effort, and a creaking sound as they draw to a halt
on a hard stop. As I first began using drums, I thought they would
only be suitable for small wheels. As it turned out, some of my
favorite bikes use drums on 700c wheels.

Sturmey Archer Elite drums have done fine by me. They have cartridge
bearings, which I like, and are mechanically very similar to Sachs/
SRAM VT5000 brakes. For me, they have proven to be quieter but
slightly less strong than Sachs brakes.

I am less impressed with the Shimano Rollerbrake. It has stronger
initial grab and requires no significant break-in. On the other hand,
it needs regular greasing and it fades terribly on long descents. I
have been spooked a couple of times by the Rollerbrake when it got hot
in the middle of a downhill stop and I wasn't sure I'd be able to stay
out of cross traffic.

All the traditional drum brakes I have used are very predictable and
consistent, unlike, say, cantilever brakes that stop strongly or
uninspiringly, quietly or noisily, depending on the temperature and
atmospheric humidity, moisture present, and other factors.

I'm not very up-to-date on drum brakes, mostly because they seem to
last forever and require nothing from me. All my old ones are doing
just fine. But there are a couple of newer models in the market that
are reputed to be better than their forebears. The SRAM i-Brake and
latest generation Shimano Rollerbrake are reputed to be significantly
stronger than their predecessors. The i-Brake now has a pretty modest
gross weight rating, though, which makes me hesitant to try it.

Chalo

[Dan Burkhart]

daveornee Wrote:
> It is good to hear your comments.
> I work with lots of commuters and heavy riders.
> Even with more mature riders, the roads around here will swallow your
> whole bicycle and crunch a rim relatively easily. I am trying to
> encourage year-round-riding with fatter tires and sturdier rims that
> don't cost an-arm-and-a-leg to replace. DM18 looks like it could be the
> one.
> Eyelets are a nice addition. It would be nice if Alex gave the ERD
> with and without eyelets. I estimate that eyelets add ~4 mm to the
> ERD.
> Without being "commercial" about it; where is your shop?
Oakville Ontario
www.boomerbicycle.ca


--
Dan Burkhart

[Andreas Oehler]

Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:15:48 -0800 (PST), Chalo:

>daveornee wrote:
>>
>> Your input always gets me looking into something more: what hub brakes
>> have you had the best results with?
>
>I have had great results from Sachs VT5000 and analogous brakes
>(VT3000, HT5020, and drums built into Sachs/SRAM gearhubs). They are
>far from the strongest brakes I have used, but as they break in fully,
>I am continually surprised at how strong they eventually become. They
>are fault-free, drag-free, and mostly quiet. What few noises they
>make are truck-like-- an occasional high ringing squeal at low speed
>and high braking effort, and a creaking sound as they draw to a halt
>on a hard stop. As I first began using drums, I thought they would
>only be suitable for small wheels. As it turned out, some of my
>favorite bikes use drums on 700c wheels.
>
>Sturmey Archer Elite drums have done fine by me. They have cartridge
>bearings, which I like, and are mechanically very similar to Sachs/
>SRAM VT5000 brakes. For me, they have proven to be quieter but
>slightly less strong than Sachs brakes.
>
>I am less impressed with the Shimano Rollerbrake.

The strongest drum-brake I tried so far is teh SRAM i-brake. Mounted on
the front wheel of my 700c town-bike it allows to lift the rear wheel with
not much force on the brake lever. After 5000km of use it shows only
little wear inside so should be good for at least 20.000 km. You need hubs
with special mounting for a i-brake (4 M5 screws). Details at:
http://www.sram24.com/newtechdoc/english/consumers/ghs/iBRAKE.html

Pictures of my i-brake mounted on the light SON XS100i hub dynamo:
http://velo.dyndns.eu/bilder/xs100i.jpg
http://velo.dyndns.eu/bilder/ibrake-offen.jpg

Picture of my i-brake in use:
http://velo.dyndns.eu/bilder/vollbrems2-kl.jpg
Notice the bent fork. My advice: Dont use a racing-fork for a drum brake -
even if this comes with a cheap italian road bike from the late
seventies...

Andreas


Andreas

[Christian Zickermann]

X-noarchive: yes

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:15:48 -0800 (PST), Chalo
<chalo.colina@gmail.com> wrote:

>daveornee wrote:
>>
>> Your input always gets me looking into something more: what hub brakes
>> have you had the best results with?
>
>I have had great results from Sachs VT5000 and analogous brakes
>(VT3000, HT5020, and drums built into Sachs/SRAM gearhubs). They are
>far from the strongest brakes I have used, but as they break in fully,
>I am continually surprised at how strong they eventually become.

And those still not satisfied by their drum brakes' performance might
want to go for an hydraulic upgrade:

http://www.longjohn.org/bremsen/bremsen_en.html

Regards,
Christian

[landotter]

On Feb 11, 4:19 pm, John Everett
<jevere...@sbcglobal.DEFEAT.UCE.BOTS.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 01:11:26 +1100, Dan Burkhart
>
>
>
> <Dan.Burkhart.34g...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>
> >Chalo Wrote:
> >> I understand thatDM18comes in versions with and without grommets,
> >> and I would always choose the grommeted version given the option.
>
> >> > Also, what experience with the external rim wear indicator?
>
> >> I've never worn one down, on anAlexrim or any other. If I rode
> >> where such things were necessary, I'd use hub brakes on my rain bike
> >> (and I did).
>
> >> Chalo
> >I couldn't say whetherAlexmakes an eyeletted version of the 36 hole
> >rim. I have two suppliers for these rims, and neither one carries a 36
> >hole with eyelets. 32 hole rims are available with or without.
> >This applies to both 26" and 700c.
> >Dan
>
> Funny thing, following my Sun CR18 thread a couple of weeks ago where
> several posters recommended theAlexDM18, I ordered a pair. I just
> got back from picking them up at the LBS, and yes the DM18s come in 36
> hole, 700C, with eyelets. :-)

Ohh, I'm crossing my fingers! The picture in the QBP catalog didn't
indicate eyelets, but neither do the cross sections on websites that
sell them.

Do you know which supplier your LBS ordered from?

[John Everett]

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:05:11 -0800 (PST), landotter
<landotter@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Feb 11, 4:19 pm, John Everett
><jevere...@sbcglobal.DEFEAT.UCE.BOTS.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 01:11:26 +1100, Dan Burkhart
>>
>>
>>
>> <Dan.Burkhart.34g...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Chalo Wrote:
>> >> I understand thatDM18comes in versions with and without grommets,
>> >> and I would always choose the grommeted version given the option.
>>
>> >> > Also, what experience with the external rim wear indicator?
>>
>> >> I've never worn one down, on anAlexrim or any other. If I rode
>> >> where such things were necessary, I'd use hub brakes on my rain bike
>> >> (and I did).
>>
>> >> Chalo
>> >I couldn't say whetherAlexmakes an eyeletted version of the 36 hole
>> >rim. I have two suppliers for these rims, and neither one carries a 36
>> >hole with eyelets. 32 hole rims are available with or without.
>> >This applies to both 26" and 700c.
>> >Dan
>>
>> Funny thing, following my Sun CR18 thread a couple of weeks ago where
>> several posters recommended theAlexDM18, I ordered a pair. I just
>> got back from picking them up at the LBS, and yes the DM18s come in 36
>> hole, 700C, with eyelets. :-)
>
>Ohh, I'm crossing my fingers! The picture in the QBP catalog didn't
>indicate eyelets, but neither do the cross sections on websites that
>sell them.

For a picture taken about ten minutes ago see:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sierrajohn/2282128618/

>Do you know which supplier your LBS ordered from?

I just got off the phone with Russ Miller at Bicycles Etc. (my LBS)
who says he got them from QBP.


--
jeverett3<AT>sbcglobal<DOT>net (John V. Everett)

[landotter]

On Feb 21, 10:45 am, John Everett
<jevere...@sbcglobal.DEFEAT.UCE.BOTS.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:05:11 -0800 (PST), landotter
>
>
>
> <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Feb 11, 4:19 pm, John Everett
> ><jevere...@sbcglobal.DEFEAT.UCE.BOTS.net> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 01:11:26 +1100, Dan Burkhart
>
> >> <Dan.Burkhart.34g...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>
> >> >Chalo Wrote:
> >> >> I understand thatDM18comes in versions with and without grommets,
> >> >> and I would always choose the grommeted version given the option.
>
> >> >> > Also, what experience with the external rim wear indicator?
>
> >> >> I've never worn one down, on anAlexrim or any other. If I rode
> >> >> where such things were necessary, I'd use hub brakes on my rain bike
> >> >> (and I did).
>
> >> >> Chalo
> >> >I couldn't say whetherAlexmakes an eyeletted version of the 36 hole
> >> >rim. I have two suppliers for these rims, and neither one carries a 36
> >> >hole with eyelets. 32 hole rims are available with or without.
> >> >This applies to both 26" and 700c.
> >> >Dan
>
> >> Funny thing, following my Sun CR18 thread a couple of weeks ago where
> >> several posters recommended theAlexDM18, I ordered a pair. I just
> >> got back from picking them up at the LBS, and yes the DM18s come in 36
> >> hole, 700C, with eyelets. :-)
>
> >Ohh, I'm crossing my fingers! The picture in the QBP catalog didn't
> >indicate eyelets, but neither do the cross sections on websites that
> >sell them.
>
> For a picture taken about ten minutes ago see:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/sierrajohn/2282128618/
>
> >Do you know which supplier your LBS ordered from?
>
> I just got off the phone with Russ Miller at Bicycles Etc. (my LBS)
> who says he got them from QBP.
>
Scott at Eastside Cycles is ordering from QBP as well. Hopefully I'll
get the same as yours. Looks just like the ones I had OEM. Should
prove to be bomb proof. Can't wait to lace them up.

Thanx!
-Max