The End Is Beginning To Show

[Tom Kunich]

A French village forced the 4 Days of Dunkerque to cancel a Time Trial that
would have been within their city limits. This is what is beginning to
happen in France and surely it is a sign that bicycle racing in Europe is
now in deep trouble.

[pearystreet@gmail.com]

On Feb 24, 10:24*pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> A French village forced the 4 Days of Dunkerque to cancel a Time Trial that
> would have been within their city limits. This is what is beginning to
> happen in France and surely it is a sign that bicycle racing in Europe is
> now in deep trouble.

Oh Tom, are you being a reactionary. Perhaps there is more to it.
Without the facts you are being a chicken little.

[Tom Kunich]

<pearystreet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:27fb8e0b-d316-4002-b223-e97c43d689e8@t66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 24, 10:24 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> > A French village forced the 4 Days of Dunkerque to cancel a Time Trial
> > that
> > would have been within their city limits. This is what is beginning to
> > happen in France and surely it is a sign that bicycle racing in Europe
> > is
> > now in deep trouble.
>
> Oh Tom, are you being a reactionary. Perhaps there is more to it.
> Without the facts you are being a chicken little.

There's always that possibility but when I was in France during the Tour I
used to stop in sports bars to have a beer and see what was happening in the
Tour and in almost every case when I went in they didn't have a single TV
with the Tour on - almost always they had soccer finals on. When I stopped
by news stands and asked for l'Equipe they would try to sell me a special
edition that covered nothing but soccer.

I spent two weeks in France during the Tour and didn't see a single bicycle
in France except for a few farmers going out into their fields until the day
before the Tour finished in Paris (not counting the rent-a-bikes around the
Eiffel Tower area).

I talked to a really nice Frenchman from the coast who told me that most of
France don't want anything to do with bicycles anymore though his area was
still active.

Now you can see through the actions of ASO against the riders and the UCI
that this whole thing is a house of cards and it is beginning to appear
about to fall in on itself. It wouldn't take a great loss of support from
the French public to simply push bicycle racing completely off the page.

So, while I am being a bit reactionary it isn't without something to react
to.

[Davey Crockett]

"Tom Kunich" a écrit profondement:

| <pearystreet@gmail.com> wrote in message
| news:27fb8e0b-d316-4002-b223-e97c43d689e8@t66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
| On Feb 24, 10:24 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
| > > A French village forced the 4 Days of Dunkerque to cancel a Time
| > Trial > that
| > > would have been within their city limits. This is what is beginning to
| > > happen in France and surely it is a sign that bicycle racing in
| > Europe > is
| > > now in deep trouble.
| >
| > Oh Tom, are you being a reactionary. Perhaps there is more to it.
| > Without the facts you are being a chicken little.
|
| There's always that possibility but when I was in France during the
| Tour I used to stop in sports bars to have a beer and see what was
| happening in the Tour and in almost every case when I went in they
| didn't have a single TV with the Tour on - almost always they had
| soccer finals on. When I stopped by news stands and asked for l'Equipe
| they would try to sell me a special edition that covered nothing but
| soccer.
|
| I spent two weeks in France during the Tour and didn't see a single
| bicycle in France except for a few farmers going out into their fields
| until the day before the Tour finished in Paris (not counting the
| rent-a-bikes around the Eiffel Tower area).
|
| I talked to a really nice Frenchman from the coast who told me that
| most of France don't want anything to do with bicycles anymore though
| his area was still active.
|
| Now you can see through the actions of ASO against the riders and the
| UCI that this whole thing is a house of cards and it is beginning to
| appear about to fall in on itself. It wouldn't take a great loss of
| support from the French public to simply push bicycle racing
| completely off the page.
|
| So, while I am being a bit reactionary it isn't without something to
| react to.
|

You have it about right Tom

I haven't owned a TV for 20 years, but a couple of years ago I bought
one having made the round of the Antibes Bars and Found only One that
had the Tour on whereas 20 years ago the Tour at least, and most of the
Classics, would have been showing in _any_ bar

But people are not as interested in Bike Racing generally as they were
in years gone by.

Cycle racing is a dying sport as more and more people complain about
the inconvenience that road closures cause and the cpountry fills up
with immigrants who have no interest whatsoever in bikes except
perhaps to steal one.

Likewise traffic is unbelievable. 20+ years ago I could ride say to
Grasse from Antibes meeting, with the exception of local traffic
around Mougins and Mouans-Sartou, less than a dozen vehicles en
route. Now the traffic is nose to tail


--
Davey Crockett
-
Driving a Stake through the
Heart of the Politically Correct
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg146/sylviastolz/freesylvia.jpg

[rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com]

On Feb 24, 8:58 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> I spent two weeks in France during the Tour and didn't see a single bicycle
> in France except for a few farmers going out into their fields until the day
> before the Tour finished in Paris (not counting the rent-a-bikes around the
> Eiffel Tower area).

I've spent much more than two weeks in France and I'm having a hard
time remembering a day when I didn't see a bike.

[Ted van de Weteringe]

Davey Crockett wrote:
> Likewise traffic is unbelievable. 20+ years ago I could ride say to
> Grasse from Antibes meeting, with the exception of local traffic
> around Mougins and Mouans-Sartou, less than a dozen vehicles

Do you mean the Route Napoleon; hasn't that always been busy? Or via
Valbonne; can't imagine traffic there being nose to tail any time. If
it is, that's bad.

Fifteen years ago I rode from Grasse to Cannes and somehow ended up on
the D6185, by bike. That was not good.

[Hunter]

On Feb 25, 1:58*am, Ted van de Weteringe
<myfulln...@xs4all.nl.invalid> wrote:
> Davey Crockett wrote:
> > Likewise traffic is unbelievable. 20+ years ago I could ride say to
> > Grasse from Antibes meeting, with the exception of local traffic
> > around Mougins and Mouans-Sartou, less than a dozen vehicles
>
> Do you mean the Route Napoleon; hasn't that always been busy? Or via
> Valbonne; can't imagine traffic there being nose to tail any time. If
> it is, that's bad.
>
> Fifteen years ago I rode from Grasse to Cannes and somehow ended up on
> the D6185, by bike. That was not good.

maybe french pplz should like, win the tour de france sometime.

[Tom Kunich]

"Hunter" <thhiii@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e0bb3f0d-d73d-4c64-b0a5-93c0c40cc8c0@q33g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> maybe french pplz should like, win the tour de france sometime.

I think that's their intent - but of course the only way to do that is to
disqualify all the other nationalities......

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <13s5u99l0ufotd1@corp.supernews.com>,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> "Hunter" <thhiii@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e0bb3f0d-d73d-4c64-b0a5-93c0c40cc8c0@q33g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > maybe french pplz should like, win the tour de france sometime.
>
> I think that's their intent - but of course the only way to do that is to
> disqualify all the other nationalities......

Or dope. They could dope!

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

[Tom Kunich]

<rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4ea201f2-303e-4492-9ea9-e212e855af6a@64g2000hsw.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 24, 8:58 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> I spent two weeks in France during the Tour and didn't see a single
>> bicycle
>> in France except for a few farmers going out into their fields until the
>> day
>> before the Tour finished in Paris (not counting the rent-a-bikes around
>> the
>> Eiffel Tower area).
>
> I've spent much more than two weeks in France and I'm having a hard
> time remembering a day when I didn't see a bike.

So you're saying that cycling is as popular in France as it is in Belgium or
Switzerland?

[rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com]

On Feb 25, 2:10 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> <rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:4ea201f2-303e-4492-9ea9-e212e855af6a@64g2000hsw.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Feb 24, 8:58 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >> I spent two weeks in France during the Tour and didn't see a single
> >> bicycle
> >> in France except for a few farmers going out into their fields until the
> >> day
> >> before the Tour finished in Paris (not counting the rent-a-bikes around
> >> the
> >> Eiffel Tower area).
>
> > I've spent much more than two weeks in France and I'm having a hard
> > time remembering a day when I didn't see a bike.
>
> So you're saying that cycling is as popular in France as it is in Belgium or
> Switzerland?

No, pay attention: I'm saying I've spent much more than two weeks in
France and I'm having a hard time remembering a day when I didn't see
a bike.

[Tom Kunich]

<rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:06ce0803-f2c1-4ffb-a478-cdcf60082a9b@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 25, 2:10 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> <rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:4ea201f2-303e-4492-9ea9-e212e855af6a@64g2000hsw.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On Feb 24, 8:58 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> >> I spent two weeks in France during the Tour and didn't see a single
>> >> bicycle
>> >> in France except for a few farmers going out into their fields until
>> >> the
>> >> day
>> >> before the Tour finished in Paris (not counting the rent-a-bikes
>> >> around
>> >> the
>> >> Eiffel Tower area).
>>
>> > I've spent much more than two weeks in France and I'm having a hard
>> > time remembering a day when I didn't see a bike.
>>
>> So you're saying that cycling is as popular in France as it is in Belgium
>> or
>> Switzerland?
>
> No, pay attention: I'm saying I've spent much more than two weeks in
> France and I'm having a hard time remembering a day when I didn't see
> a bike.

Racing bikes like in the USA, Switzerland and Belgium or transportation or
rental stuff around Paris?

Why are you avoiding the issue that even Davey agrees with at least
partially?

[William Asher]

wrote:

> On Feb 25, 2:10 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> <rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:4ea201f2-303e-4492-9ea9-e212e855af6a@64g2000hsw.googlegroups.com.
>> ..
>>
>> > On Feb 24, 8:58 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> >> I spent two weeks in France during the Tour and didn't see a
>> >> single bicycle
>> >> in France except for a few farmers going out into their fields
>> >> until the day
>> >> before the Tour finished in Paris (not counting the rent-a-bikes
>> >> around the
>> >> Eiffel Tower area).
>>
>> > I've spent much more than two weeks in France and I'm having a hard
>> > time remembering a day when I didn't see a bike.
>>
>> So you're saying that cycling is as popular in France as it is in
>> Belgium or Switzerland?
>
> No, pay attention: I'm saying I've spent much more than two weeks in
> France and I'm having a hard time remembering a day when I didn't see
> a bike.

This is such a typical American response when talking to foreigners. If
the guy doesn't understand you, say it again louder.

I'ld try all-caps next.

--
Bill Asher

[rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com]

On Feb 25, 3:06 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> <rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:06ce0803-f2c1-4ffb-a478-cdcf60082a9b@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Feb 25, 2:10 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >> <rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:4ea201f2-303e-4492-9ea9-e212e855af6a@64g2000hsw.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > On Feb 24, 8:58 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >> >> I spent two weeks in France during the Tour and didn't see a single
> >> >> bicycle
> >> >> in France except for a few farmers going out into their fields until
> >> >> the
> >> >> day
> >> >> before the Tour finished in Paris (not counting the rent-a-bikes
> >> >> around
> >> >> the
> >> >> Eiffel Tower area).
>
> >> > I've spent much more than two weeks in France and I'm having a hard
> >> > time remembering a day when I didn't see a bike.
>
> >> So you're saying that cycling is as popular in France as it is in Belgium
> >> or
> >> Switzerland?
>
> > No, pay attention: I'm saying I've spent much more than two weeks in
> > France and I'm having a hard time remembering a day when I didn't see
> > a bike.
>
> Racing bikes like in the USA, Switzerland and Belgium or transportation or
> rental stuff around Paris?

Hmmm. I don't think I've ever bothered keeping track (it would be
disquieting if I had) but my overall impression is that the number of
"racing" bikes per adult male is probably not too terribly far off
from what I see in California -- but the number of "transportation"
bikes per adult is much, much higher.

> Why are you avoiding the issue that even Davey agrees with at least
> partially?

Cuz Davey is a wanker?

[rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com]

On Feb 25, 3:44 pm, William Asher <gcn...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> This is such a typical American response when talking to foreigners. If
> the guy doesn't understand you, say it again louder.
>
> I'ld try all-caps next.

It sorta works that way for parents talking to little kids and other
mental defectives, too.

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

On Feb 25, 3:47*pm, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 25, 3:06 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> Hmmm. I don't think I've ever bothered keeping track (it would be
> disquieting if I had) ...

And it might take away from stocking Hollis.

[William Asher]

wrote:

> On Feb 25, 3:44 pm, William Asher <gcn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> This is such a typical American response when talking to foreigners. If
>> the guy doesn't understand you, say it again louder.
>>
>> I'ld try all-caps next.
>
> It sorta works that way for parents talking to little kids and other
> mental defectives, too.
>

The exception is that eventually a child gets to the point where he does
understand you the first time, he just doesn't give a **** and ignores you,
so you get in the habit of starting out by yelling to save time. This
might explain a lot of the interactions between Tom and the rest of
humanity, though without the maturation aspect.

--
Bill Asher

[rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com]

On Feb 25, 5:08 pm, William Asher <gcn...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > It sorta works that way for parents talking to little kids and other
> > mental defectives, too.
>
> The exception is that eventually a child gets to the point where he does
> understand you the first time, he just doesn't give a **** and ignores you,
> so you get in the habit of starting out by yelling to save time. This
> might explain a lot of the interactions between Tom and the rest of
> humanity, though without the maturation aspect.

"rest?"

[William Asher]

wrote:

> On Feb 25, 5:08 pm, William Asher <gcn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> > It sorta works that way for parents talking to little kids and
>> > other mental defectives, too.
>>
>> The exception is that eventually a child gets to the point where he
>> does understand you the first time, he just doesn't give a **** and
>> ignores you, so you get in the habit of starting out by yelling to
>> save time. This might explain a lot of the interactions between Tom
>> and the rest of humanity, though without the maturation aspect.
>
> "rest?"
>

It's the olive branch of peace.

--
Bill Asher

[rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com]

On Feb 26, 10:26 am, William Asher <gcn...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> It's the olive branch of peace.

Surrender monkey.

[William Asher]

wrote:

> On Feb 26, 10:26 am, William Asher <gcn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> It's the olive branch of peace.
>
> Surrender monkey.
>

Do you have any brie and burgundy left?

--
Bill Asher

[Donald Munro]

William Asher wrote:
>> It's the olive branch of peace.

rechungREMOVETHIS wrote:
> Surrender monkey.

Ben will be pleased there are no diarrheac peace doves involved.

[rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com]

On Feb 26, 1:34 pm, William Asher <gcn...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Do you have any brie and burgundy left?

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jxbQrCZ8r5J1bOtzAsRsxpp-iuUQD8V274VO0

[William Asher]

wrote:

> On Feb 26, 1:34 pm, William Asher <gcn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Do you have any brie and burgundy left?
>
> http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jxbQrCZ8r5J1bOtzAsRsxpp-iuUQD8V274VO0
>

Even with the new wife, France would be a totally hotter nation, a
country fit to host the premier cycling even in the world even, SuperWeek,
if they had elected the chick instead of him.

I'm off to get some cheese to go with the surrender monkey thing. I'll
save the "you complete me" line for another time.

--
Bill Asher

[Howard Kveck]

In article <Xns9A508D3151C16FkldeltaC@130.133.1.4>, William Asher <gcnp58@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 26, 1:34 pm, William Asher <gcn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Do you have any brie and burgundy left?
> >
> > http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jxbQrCZ8r5J1bOtzAsRsxpp-iuUQD8V274VO0
> >
>
> Even with the new wife, France would be a totally hotter nation, a
> country fit to host the premier cycling even in the world even, SuperWeek,
> if they had elected the chick instead of him.
>
> I'm off to get some cheese to go with the surrender monkey thing.

Forget brie. Get Brillat-Savarin. Since it's a triple cream, it's more Fasters
Fattie appropriate.

--
tanx,
Howard

Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an icepick
That made his ears burn.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

[William Asher]

Howard Kveck <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote in
news:YOURhoward-61A9F3.17190026022008@newsgroups.comcast.net:

<snip>
>
> Forget brie. Get Brillat-Savarin. Since it's a triple cream, it's
> more Fasters
> Fattie appropriate.
>

Triple cream is not something I want to be associated with. Around here,
the bukake jokes would never stop.

--
Bill Asher

[teaser4ever@gmail.com]

Popularity of cycling as a sport isn't really related to popularity of
cycling as a passtime/utility. To be honest, trafic in France always
has been Cycling unfriendly. 20 years ago I dreaded cycling in the
mediteranean Alps and I'm sure it hasn't gotten better. Considering
I'm even starting to get car-scared in the good ole bike friendly
Netherlands, I for one really detest the blinded worship of cars.

Bike friendly countries I have seen:

1. (Northern) Germany. Surprisingly polite people in trafic, pretty
good bicycle infrastructure
2. Netherlands. Dangerous trafic (not the worst, but still bad), due
to being carcrowded to the gills, fantastic bicycle infrastructure
3. Denmark. Decently polite people in trafic (but smaller country, so
carcrowded) , pretty good bicycle infrastructure.

The rest:

1. Switzerland: Polite people in trafic, lacking in infrastructure.
2. Washington State, Wisconsin, Minnesota: Polite people in
trafic(more space, so less crowded helps a lot in drivers
aggressiveness), no infrastructure at all.
3. Belgium. Dangerous trafic, surprising lack of infrastructure
4. France: Horrifying trafic. Not just rude, as outright dangerous. No
infrastructure.
5. Greece. Lethal trafic, worse than France.... Every curb has a
little cross to commemorate someone dying in trafic.... No
infrastructure.


All in all bike vacacions in Northern Germany are quite relaxing. The
Netherlands are usually fine, unless you have the (thankfully) rare
busy road without a bicycle section. The Dutch Automobilist mentality
substracts so much that I prefer Germany. In Germany people at least
notice me if I'm at the same road, In the Netherlands (probably
because they are used to cyclists) they speed past you at armlength,
wich is fraying your nerves after a while.

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article
<c120f6c2-dd6c-47fa-8190-67d4641513a6@c33g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
teaser4ever@gmail.com wrote:

> Popularity of cycling as a sport isn't really related to popularity of
> cycling as a passtime/utility. To be honest, trafic in France always
> has been Cycling unfriendly. 20 years ago I dreaded cycling in the
> mediteranean Alps and I'm sure it hasn't gotten better. Considering
> I'm even starting to get car-scared in the good ole bike friendly
> Netherlands, I for one really detest the blinded worship of cars.
>
> Bike friendly countries I have seen:
>
> The rest:
>
> 5. Greece. Lethal trafic, worse than France.... Every curb has a
> little cross to commemorate someone dying in trafic.... No
> infrastructure.

Dumbass: get out of the city. I spent my vacation in the Cyclades.
Greece still isn't a country with any cycling history, culture, or
infrastructure to speak of, but it's a lot prettier out there.

Athens is 2000 years of glorious history buried under five stories of
the most depressing-looking urban sprawl this side of Detroit, with the
Acropolis sticking out of the middle. The subway system has better
archaeological exhibits than any museum in North America*, but LA has a
better road network (and a better climate). LA probably has better
cycling accommodations, too. It certainly has better bike shops.

Here's a simple benchmark: disregarding the cycling issues, you still
wouldn't want to live in Athens. And I say this as someone whose to-do
list includes "learn Greek so you can live and work in Greece."

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing