Racing in the rain- TOC vs NASCAR

[Paul G.]

I got a good laugh out of this- after watching the Tour of California
riders racing thru the rain day after day I saw this article on how
NASCAR reacted to the same rain. What a bunch of wimps! ;-))

NASCAR: Slippery when wet
Jimmie Johnson was leading the NASCAR Sprint Cup race in California on
Sunday night when it was halted due to rain. The race will be finished
on Monday.
A rainy weekend in Southern California wreaked havoc on NASCAR's
schedule at the California Speedway.NASCAR officials finally threw in
the towel when rain brought out the second red flag stop of the
race.The race was red flagged for more than an hour after just 21
laps, due to a pair of crashes attributed to water weeping from cracks
in the track surface.

[WeaselPoopPower]

Paul G. wrote:
> I got a good laugh out of this- after watching the Tour of California
> riders racing thru the rain day after day I saw this article on how
> NASCAR reacted to the same rain. What a bunch of wimps! ;-))
>
> NASCAR: Slippery when wet
> Jimmie Johnson was leading the NASCAR Sprint Cup race in California on
> Sunday night when it was halted due to rain. The race will be finished
> on Monday.
> A rainy weekend in Southern California wreaked havoc on NASCAR's
> schedule at the California Speedway.NASCAR officials finally threw in
> the towel when rain brought out the second red flag stop of the
> race.The race was red flagged for more than an hour after just 21
> laps, due to a pair of crashes attributed to water weeping from cracks
> in the track surface.

California rainy season flu was also going through Nascar Driver ranks
as well, but unlike cycling wussies they didn't drop out ;-)

Either the drivers are taking the same stuff and trying to avoid the
same testing or there actually was something going round. Becuase for me
"stomach issues" = dude if you get tested today you're toast. Sad but
true, same goes for Bissell's Zirbel, as I watched him motor all I could
think was his "program" must be peaking. Kinda kills enjoyment of the
sport for me.

[Carl Sundquist]

"Paul G." <carbide@egine.com> wrote in message
news:6f8302c5-562a-41c7-8cdf-ca49acd30baf@k2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>I got a good laugh out of this- after watching the Tour of California
> riders racing thru the rain day after day I saw this article on how
> NASCAR reacted to the same rain. What a bunch of wimps! ;-))
>
> NASCAR: Slippery when wet
> Jimmie Johnson was leading the NASCAR Sprint Cup race in California on
> Sunday night when it was halted due to rain. The race will be finished
> on Monday.
> A rainy weekend in Southern California wreaked havoc on NASCAR's
> schedule at the California Speedway.NASCAR officials finally threw in
> the towel when rain brought out the second red flag stop of the
> race.The race was red flagged for more than an hour after just 21
> laps, due to a pair of crashes attributed to water weeping from cracks
> in the track surface.

If NASCAR was working with a 1 hp engine, they would have raced, too.

[unforgiven99@juno.com]

On Feb 25, 12:08 pm, "Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote:
> I got a good laugh out of this- after watching the Tour of California
> riders racing thru the rain day after day I saw this article on how
> NASCAR reacted to the same rain. What a bunch of wimps! ;-))
>
> NASCAR: Slippery when wet
> Jimmie Johnson was leading the NASCAR Sprint Cup race in California on
> Sunday night when it was halted due to rain. The race will be finished
> on Monday.
> A rainy weekend in Southern California wreaked havoc on NASCAR's
> schedule at the California Speedway.NASCAR officials finally threw in
> the towel when rain brought out the second red flag stop of the
> race.The race was red flagged for more than an hour after just 21
> laps, due to a pair of crashes attributed to water weeping from cracks
> in the track surface.

Ironically enough, NASCAR does run in the rain on road courses. So
rain tires exist, and every driver has at least one car with
windshield wipers. Maybe they figure that cars chasing each other
around an oval can just barely be considered racing at 200mph.
Speedway racing in the rain would be like watching paint dry.

[Michael Baldwin]

Wanting to be constructive, Mike Baldwin shares the following example
of good judgement -

Issy-les-Moulineaux, the 12th of January 2005

The 2005 edition of the Paris-Roubaix will not include the Tranchée
d'Arenberg
Following the most recent reconnaissance of the race route, the
organisers have decided not to include in the race the 2400 metres of
the Drève des Boules d'Hérin – the famous Trouée d'Arenberg –
for safety reasons.
Indeed, the state of the road has greatly deteriorated over the last few
years. There is hence a dangerous 200 metre passage, linked to mining
subsidence, which has resulted in the "Mare à Goriaux" (Goriaux Pool).
A slimy film due to continual damp collects on the cobblestones,
transforming this portion of the road into a real trap for the riders.

Mike Baldwin adds, Please note that it was the race _organisers_ who
pulled the section of dangerous course in question, _not_ the
competitors.

Best Regards - Mike Baldwin

[datakoll]

On Feb 25, 12:08*pm, "Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote:
> I got a good laugh out of this- after watching the Tour of California
> riders racing thru the rain day after day I saw this article on how
> NASCAR reacted to the same rain. What a bunch of wimps! *;-))
>
> * * * * NASCAR: Slippery when wet
> Jimmie Johnson was leading the NASCAR Sprint Cup race in California on
> Sunday night when it was halted due to rain. The race will be finished
> on Monday.
> A rainy weekend in Southern California wreaked havoc on NASCAR's
> schedule at the California Speedway.NASCAR officials finally threw in
> the towel when rain brought out the second red flag stop of the
> race.The race was red flagged for more than an hour after just 21
> laps, due to a pair of crashes attributed to water weeping from cracks
> in the track surface.

sure ask Fred Rodriguez.
ask the chicane at Watkins Glen
ask Junior the Nazi Klansmen
ask Montoya can't get a draft
ask Junior's new team hiring the Klansman for protection from...
but frankly very few race in the rain at 170+ 3-4 no more...at any
given time more or less.
and not those guys. so why not stop?

[Paul G.]

On Feb 25, 10:09 am, WeaselPoopPower <wea...@poop.ca> wrote:
> Paul G. wrote:
> > I got a good laugh out of this- after watching the Tour of California
> > riders racing thru the rain day after day I saw this article on how
> > NASCAR reacted to the same rain. What a bunch of wimps! ;-))
>
> > NASCAR: Slippery when wet
> > Jimmie Johnson was leading the NASCAR Sprint Cup race in California on
> > Sunday night when it was halted due to rain. The race will be finished
> > on Monday.
> > A rainy weekend in Southern California wreaked havoc on NASCAR's
> > schedule at the California Speedway.NASCAR officials finally threw in
> > the towel when rain brought out the second red flag stop of the
> > race.The race was red flagged for more than an hour after just 21
> > laps, due to a pair of crashes attributed to water weeping from cracks
> > in the track surface.
>
> California rainy season flu was also going through Nascar Driver ranks
> as well, but unlike cycling wussies they didn't drop out ;-)
>
> Either the drivers are taking the same stuff and trying to avoid the
> same testing or there actually was something going round.

Things do go around- there is that novovirus that hits cruise ships,
for example. I also think some people suffer more from being cold and
wet, just as some suffer more from heat. And some just choose to save
the risks and suffering for another day that's a higher priority. The
testing is so good now, I can't believe all these people were dropping
out to avoid testing.

A NASCAR fan explained to me that although their sport is based on two
things- turning left and crashing into each other- rain puts out the
flames and what's the point of a wreck if there's no fire? ;-)
-Paul

[Paul G.]

On Feb 25, 10:13 am, "Carl Sundquist" <carl...@cox.net> wrote:
> "Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote in message
>
> news:6f8302c5-562a-41c7-8cdf-ca49acd30baf@k2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I got a good laugh out of this- after watching the Tour of California
> > riders racing thru the rain day after day I saw this article on how
> > NASCAR reacted to the same rain. What a bunch of wimps! ;-))
>

>
> If NASCAR was working with a 1 hp engine, they would have raced, too.

Do you think these guys at Le Mans had 1 hp engines?
>http://blogs.motortrend.com/6210346/motorsports/live-le-mans-coverage-rain-soaked-finish-more-photos/index.html

Real racers like tough conditions.The strong survive, the weak drop
out.
-Paul

[Howard Kveck]

In article <0zDwj.5967$yk5.120@newsfe18.lga>, "Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox.net>
wrote:

> "Paul G." <carbide@egine.com> wrote in message
> news:6f8302c5-562a-41c7-8cdf-ca49acd30baf@k2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> >I got a good laugh out of this- after watching the Tour of California
> > riders racing thru the rain day after day I saw this article on how
> > NASCAR reacted to the same rain. What a bunch of wimps! ;-))
> >
> > NASCAR: Slippery when wet
> > Jimmie Johnson was leading the NASCAR Sprint Cup race in California on
> > Sunday night when it was halted due to rain. The race will be finished
> > on Monday.
> > A rainy weekend in Southern California wreaked havoc on NASCAR's
> > schedule at the California Speedway.NASCAR officials finally threw in
> > the towel when rain brought out the second red flag stop of the
> > race.The race was red flagged for more than an hour after just 21
> > laps, due to a pair of crashes attributed to water weeping from cracks
> > in the track surface.
>
> If NASCAR was working with a 1 hp engine, they would have raced, too.

And if they had anything but slicks, they'd probably have raced. It isn't about
being wimps - track cyclists don't spend much time racing in the rain either.

--
tanx,
Howard

Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an icepick
That made his ears burn.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

[Fabrizio Mazzoleni]

On Feb 25, 4:56*pm, unforgive...@juno.com wrote:
> On Feb 25, 12:08 pm, "Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote:
>
> > I got a good laugh out of this- after watching the Tour of California
> > riders racing thru the rain day after day I saw this article on how
> > NASCAR reacted to the same rain. What a bunch of wimps! *;-))
>
> > * * * * NASCAR: Slippery when wet
> > Jimmie Johnson was leading the NASCAR Sprint Cup race in California on
> > Sunday night when it was halted due to rain. The race will be finished
> > on Monday.
> > A rainy weekend in Southern California wreaked havoc on NASCAR's
> > schedule at the California Speedway.NASCAR officials finally threw in
> > the towel when rain brought out the second red flag stop of the
> > race.The race was red flagged for more than an hour after just 21
> > laps, due to a pair of crashes attributed to water weeping from cracks
> > in the track surface.
>
> Ironically enough, NASCAR does run in the rain on road courses. *So
> rain tires exist, and every driver has at least one car with
> windshield wipers. *Maybe they figure that cars chasing each other
> around an oval can just barely be considered racing at 200mph.
> Speedway racing in the rain would be like watching paint dry.

ex open wheel guys like Dario Franchitti and Juan Montoya probably
wouldn't want to be out in a NASCAR Cup car on an old track like
the one at Fontana on the weekend, the seams on the track
continue to weep water even after the rain stops.

[Howard Kveck]

In article <fba6dcb7-7746-4380-a079-b9dde68953b9@t66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
unforgiven99@juno.com wrote:

> On Feb 25, 12:08 pm, "Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote:
> > I got a good laugh out of this- after watching the Tour of California
> > riders racing thru the rain day after day I saw this article on how
> > NASCAR reacted to the same rain. What a bunch of wimps! ;-))
> >
> > NASCAR: Slippery when wet
> > Jimmie Johnson was leading the NASCAR Sprint Cup race in California on
> > Sunday night when it was halted due to rain. The race will be finished
> > on Monday.
> > A rainy weekend in Southern California wreaked havoc on NASCAR's
> > schedule at the California Speedway.NASCAR officials finally threw in
> > the towel when rain brought out the second red flag stop of the
> > race.The race was red flagged for more than an hour after just 21
> > laps, due to a pair of crashes attributed to water weeping from cracks
> > in the track surface.
>
> Ironically enough, NASCAR does run in the rain on road courses. So
> rain tires exist, and every driver has at least one car with
> windshield wipers. Maybe they figure that cars chasing each other
> around an oval can just barely be considered racing at 200mph.
> Speedway racing in the rain would be like watching paint dry.

No, they don't run in the rain on road courses unless it's just slightly damp.
They have no tires with a tread, much less rain tires. And I assure you there's no
wipers on any of the cars.

--
tanx,
Howard

Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an icepick
That made his ears burn.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

[Carl Sundquist]

"Howard Kveck" <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote in message
news:YOURhoward-786594.19061925022008@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> In article <0zDwj.5967$yk5.120@newsfe18.lga>, "Carl Sundquist"
> <carlsun@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
>> "Paul G." <carbide@egine.com> wrote in message
>> news:6f8302c5-562a-41c7-8cdf-ca49acd30baf@k2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> >I got a good laugh out of this- after watching the Tour of California
>> > riders racing thru the rain day after day I saw this article on how
>> > NASCAR reacted to the same rain. What a bunch of wimps! ;-))
>> >
>> > NASCAR: Slippery when wet
>> > Jimmie Johnson was leading the NASCAR Sprint Cup race in California on
>> > Sunday night when it was halted due to rain. The race will be finished
>> > on Monday.
>> > A rainy weekend in Southern California wreaked havoc on NASCAR's
>> > schedule at the California Speedway.NASCAR officials finally threw in
>> > the towel when rain brought out the second red flag stop of the
>> > race.The race was red flagged for more than an hour after just 21
>> > laps, due to a pair of crashes attributed to water weeping from cracks
>> > in the track surface.
>>
>> If NASCAR was working with a 1 hp engine, they would have raced, too.
>
> And if they had anything but slicks, they'd probably have raced. It
> isn't about
> being wimps - track cyclists don't spend much time racing in the rain
> either.
>

I gave it a little more thought and decided they wouldn't race in the rain.
No runoff room. Kind of like doing a wet crit with concrete walls instead of
haybales.

[Casey Kerrigan]

In article <YOURhoward-94931B.19062025022008@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
Howard Kveck <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:

> In article
> <fba6dcb7-7746-4380-a079-b9dde68953b9@t66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> unforgiven99@juno.com wrote:
>
> > On Feb 25, 12:08 pm, "Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote:
> > > I got a good laugh out of this- after watching the Tour of California
> > > riders racing thru the rain day after day I saw this article on how
> > > NASCAR reacted to the same rain. What a bunch of wimps! ;-))
> > >
> > > NASCAR: Slippery when wet
> > > Jimmie Johnson was leading the NASCAR Sprint Cup race in California on
> > > Sunday night when it was halted due to rain. The race will be finished
> > > on Monday.
> > > A rainy weekend in Southern California wreaked havoc on NASCAR's
> > > schedule at the California Speedway.NASCAR officials finally threw in
> > > the towel when rain brought out the second red flag stop of the
> > > race.The race was red flagged for more than an hour after just 21
> > > laps, due to a pair of crashes attributed to water weeping from cracks
> > > in the track surface.
> >
> > Ironically enough, NASCAR does run in the rain on road courses. So
> > rain tires exist, and every driver has at least one car with
> > windshield wipers. Maybe they figure that cars chasing each other
> > around an oval can just barely be considered racing at 200mph.
> > Speedway racing in the rain would be like watching paint dry.
>
> No, they don't run in the rain on road courses unless it's just slightly
> damp.
> They have no tires with a tread, much less rain tires. And I assure you there's no
> wipers on any of the cars.

Actually nascar does have rain tires and they can run in the rain on a
road course. The reason they can't do rain tires and run on oval tracks
is they can't make rain tires that can take the heat tha tis generated
on an oval track. On road courses they go slower and ther eisn't nearly
the heat build up that they experience on a track. Even on a road
course as the course starts to dry up and the speeds pick up you can
destroy the rain tires from heat build up so the teams have to judge
when the course is dry enough to go back to the slicks. As the track is
getting dry it is funny to watch the drivers who are still on rain
tires to go off their normal line to go through those sections of the
track that are still a bit wet in an attempt to try and keep their tire
Temps down.

Here is a link to a story about a race NASCAR ran in Japan in 1997 that
was run on a road course and they used rain tires.
http://www.stockcarracing.com/techarticles/1589_rain_tires_good_year/ind
ex.html

Here is another story from the NASCAR web site talking about how they
are ready to race in the rain if it does rain at Watkins Glen in 2003
as long as it isn't raining that hard.
http://www.nascar.com/2003/news/headlines/wc/08/09/darby_rain/index.html

[Paul G.]

On Feb 25, 7:06 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:

> They have no tires with a tread, much less rain tires. And I assure you there's no
> wipers on any of the cars.

Hmmmnnn... the TOC riders rode thru rain day after day... no tires
with a tread, much less rain tires. And I assure you there's no
wipers on any of the bikes. Like I said, NASCAR is a bunch of
wimps.
-Paul

[Howard Kveck]

In article <MzLwj.9920$0M3.1447@newsfe17.lga>, "Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox.net>
wrote:

> "Howard Kveck" <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote in message
> news:YOURhoward-786594.19061925022008@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> > In article <0zDwj.5967$yk5.120@newsfe18.lga>, "Carl Sundquist"
> > <carlsun@cox.net>
> > wrote:

> >> If NASCAR was working with a 1 hp engine, they would have raced, too.
> >
> > And if they had anything but slicks, they'd probably have raced. It isn't
> > about being wimps - track cyclists don't spend much time racing in the rain
> > either.
> >
>
> I gave it a little more thought and decided they wouldn't race in the rain.
> No runoff room. Kind of like doing a wet crit with concrete walls instead of
> haybales.

Good analogy.

--
tanx,
Howard

Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an icepick
That made his ears burn.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

[Howard Kveck]

In article <250220082057392445%casey@caseykerrigan.com>,
Casey Kerrigan <casey@caseykerrigan.com> wrote:

> In article <YOURhoward-94931B.19062025022008@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
> Howard Kveck <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <fba6dcb7-7746-4380-a079-b9dde68953b9@t66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> > unforgiven99@juno.com wrote:
> >
> > > On Feb 25, 12:08 pm, "Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote:
> > > > I got a good laugh out of this- after watching the Tour of California
> > > > riders racing thru the rain day after day I saw this article on how
> > > > NASCAR reacted to the same rain. What a bunch of wimps! ;-))
> > > >
> > > > NASCAR: Slippery when wet
> > > > Jimmie Johnson was leading the NASCAR Sprint Cup race in California on
> > > > Sunday night when it was halted due to rain. The race will be finished
> > > > on Monday.
> > > > A rainy weekend in Southern California wreaked havoc on NASCAR's
> > > > schedule at the California Speedway.NASCAR officials finally threw in
> > > > the towel when rain brought out the second red flag stop of the
> > > > race.The race was red flagged for more than an hour after just 21
> > > > laps, due to a pair of crashes attributed to water weeping from cracks
> > > > in the track surface.
> > >
> > > Ironically enough, NASCAR does run in the rain on road courses. So
> > > rain tires exist, and every driver has at least one car with
> > > windshield wipers. Maybe they figure that cars chasing each other
> > > around an oval can just barely be considered racing at 200mph.
> > > Speedway racing in the rain would be like watching paint dry.
> >
> > No, they don't run in the rain on road courses unless it's just slightly
> > damp. They have no tires with a tread, much less rain tires. And I assure you
> > there's no wipers on any of the cars.
>
> Actually nascar does have rain tires and they can run in the rain on a
> road course. The reason they can't do rain tires and run on oval tracks
> is they can't make rain tires that can take the heat tha tis generated
> on an oval track. On road courses they go slower and ther eisn't nearly
> the heat build up that they experience on a track. Even on a road
> course as the course starts to dry up and the speeds pick up you can
> destroy the rain tires from heat build up so the teams have to judge
> when the course is dry enough to go back to the slicks. As the track is
> getting dry it is funny to watch the drivers who are still on rain
> tires to go off their normal line to go through those sections of the
> track that are still a bit wet in an attempt to try and keep their tire
> Temps down.
>
> Here is a link to a story about a race NASCAR ran in Japan in 1997 that
> was run on a road course and they used rain tires.
> http://www.stockcarracing.com/techarticles/1589_rain_tires_good_year/ind
> ex.html

You're right, Casey - I'd missed that. But it doesn't look like they've actually
raced on 'em yet. I've only done peripheral following of NASCAR for a long time.

> Here is another story from the NASCAR web site talking about how they
> are ready to race in the rain if it does rain at Watkins Glen in 2003
> as long as it isn't raining that hard.
> http://www.nascar.com/2003/news/headlines/wc/08/09/darby_rain/index.html

You're also correct that the tire heat issues are the main cause for short tire
life with rain tires. Heavy cars, soft rubber and low pressures makes for problems.

--
tanx,
Howard

Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an icepick
That made his ears burn.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

[Paul G.]

On Feb 25, 8:57 pm, Casey Kerrigan <ca...@caseykerrigan.com> wrote:
>
> Actually nascar does have rain tires and they can run in the rain on a
> road course. The reason they can't do rain tires and run on oval tracks
> is they can't make rain tires that can take the heat tha tis generated
> on an oval track.

Is it a race or not? If it's a race, someone's gonna finish first. It
might actually take some driving skill too, and better separate the
men from the boys. I recall one of the recent TDF time trials where it
was raining and some of the big guns fell. The better bike handlers
didn't. Survival of the fittest.
-Paul

[Howard Kveck]

In article <28c5b0f2-d0b5-457b-b5fb-d901a4952707@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
"Paul G." <carbide@egine.com> wrote:

> On Feb 25, 7:06 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > They have no tires with a tread, much less rain tires. And I assure you
> > there's no wipers on any of the cars.
>
> Hmmmnnn... the TOC riders rode thru rain day after day... no tires with a tread,
> much less rain tires. And I assure you there's no wipers on any of the bikes.
> Like I said, NASCAR is a bunch of wimps.

You really don't see any difference between the traction requirements of the guys
on bikes and the guys in cars going way faster? Okay...

--
tanx,
Howard

Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an icepick
That made his ears burn.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

[unforgiven99@juno.com]

On Feb 26, 2:28 am, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> In article <250220082057392445%ca...@caseykerrigan.com>,
> Casey Kerrigan <ca...@caseykerrigan.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > In article <YOURhoward-94931B.19062025022...@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
> > Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > > In article
> > > <fba6dcb7-7746-4380-a079-b9dde6895...@t66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> > > unforgive...@juno.com wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 25, 12:08 pm, "Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote:
> > > > > I got a good laugh out of this- after watching the Tour of California
> > > > > riders racing thru the rain day after day I saw this article on how
> > > > > NASCAR reacted to the same rain. What a bunch of wimps! ;-))
>
> > > > > NASCAR: Slippery when wet
> > > > > Jimmie Johnson was leading the NASCAR Sprint Cup race in California on
> > > > > Sunday night when it was halted due to rain. The race will be finished
> > > > > on Monday.
> > > > > A rainy weekend in Southern California wreaked havoc on NASCAR's
> > > > > schedule at the California Speedway.NASCAR officials finally threw in
> > > > > the towel when rain brought out the second red flag stop of the
> > > > > race.The race was red flagged for more than an hour after just 21
> > > > > laps, due to a pair of crashes attributed to water weeping from cracks
> > > > > in the track surface.
>
> > > > Ironically enough, NASCAR does run in the rain on road courses. So
> > > > rain tires exist, and every driver has at least one car with
> > > > windshield wipers. Maybe they figure that cars chasing each other
> > > > around an oval can just barely be considered racing at 200mph.
> > > > Speedway racing in the rain would be like watching paint dry.
>
> > > No, they don't run in the rain on road courses unless it's just slightly
> > > damp. They have no tires with a tread, much less rain tires. And I assure you
> > > there's no wipers on any of the cars.
>
> > Actually nascar does have rain tires and they can run in the rain on a
> > road course. The reason they can't do rain tires and run on oval tracks
> > is they can't make rain tires that can take the heat tha tis generated
> > on an oval track. On road courses they go slower and ther eisn't nearly
> > the heat build up that they experience on a track. Even on a road
> > course as the course starts to dry up and the speeds pick up you can
> > destroy the rain tires from heat build up so the teams have to judge
> > when the course is dry enough to go back to the slicks. As the track is
> > getting dry it is funny to watch the drivers who are still on rain
> > tires to go off their normal line to go through those sections of the
> > track that are still a bit wet in an attempt to try and keep their tire
> > Temps down.
>
> > Here is a link to a story about a race NASCAR ran in Japan in 1997 that
> > was run on a road course and they used rain tires.
> >http://www.stockcarracing.com/techarticles/1589_rain_tires_good_year/ind
> > ex.html
>
> You're right, Casey - I'd missed that. But it doesn't look like they've actually
> raced on 'em yet. I've only done peripheral following of NASCAR for a long time.
>
> > Here is another story from the NASCAR web site talking about how they
> > are ready to race in the rain if it does rain at Watkins Glen in 2003
> > as long as it isn't raining that hard.
> >http://www.nascar.com/2003/news/headlines/wc/08/09/darby_rain/index.html
>
> You're also correct that the tire heat issues are the main cause for short tire
> life with rain tires. Heavy cars, soft rubber and low pressures makes for problems.
>
> --
> tanx,
> Howard
>
> Whatever happened to
> Leon Trotsky?
> He got an icepick
> That made his ears burn.
>
> remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Heat's a cop out. They would be burning up slicks at the big tracks
if they didn't have restrictor plates to slow them down. The fact is
that most of these drivers only know how to stand on the gas and turn
left. If they actually had the skill to communicate with their
machines in changing conditions they wouldn't need electronic rev
limiters to keep themselves from blowing the engines up.

[Kurgan Gringioni]

On Feb 25, 11:28*pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> In article <MzLwj.9920$0M3.1...@newsfe17.lga>, "Carl Sundquist" <carl...@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
> > "Howard Kveck" <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote in message
> >news:YOURhoward-786594.19061925022008@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> > > In article <0zDwj.5967$yk5....@newsfe18.lga>, "Carl Sundquist"
> > > <carl...@cox.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >> If NASCAR was working with a 1 hp engine, they would have raced, too.
>
> > > * And if they had anything but slicks, they'd probably have raced. It isn't
> > > about being wimps - track cyclists don't spend much time racing in the rain
> > > either.
>
> > I gave it a little more thought and decided they wouldn't race in the rain.
> > No runoff room. Kind of like doing a wet crit with concrete walls instead of
> > haybales.
>
> * *Good analogy.




Dumbasses -


Formula One races in the rain.

That's all we need to know.

NASCAR = pussies.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[WeaselPoopPower]

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

> Dumbasses -
>
> Formula One races in the rain.


Yes, they do - "Rain Heros"
Watch it once, then again full screen.
http://www.vimeo.com/348198/

[amit.ghosh@gmail.com]

On Feb 26, 2:31 am, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 25, 11:28 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > In article <MzLwj.9920$0M3.1...@newsfe17.lga>, "Carl Sundquist" <carl...@cox.net>
> > wrote:
>
> > > "Howard Kveck" <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote in message
> > >news:YOURhoward-786594.19061925022008@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> > > > In article <0zDwj.5967$yk5....@newsfe18.lga>, "Carl Sundquist"
> > > > <carl...@cox.net>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >> If NASCAR was working with a 1 hp engine, they would have raced, too.
>
> > > > And if they had anything but slicks, they'd probably have raced. It isn't
> > > > about being wimps - track cyclists don't spend much time racing in the rain
> > > > either.
>
> > > I gave it a little more thought and decided they wouldn't race in the rain.
> > > No runoff room. Kind of like doing a wet crit with concrete walls instead of
> > > haybales.
>
> > Good analogy.
>
> Dumbasses -
>
> Formula One races in the rain.
>
> That's all we need to know.
>
> NASCAR = pussies.
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.

dumbass,

f1=pussies, the tour field has almost 200 riders.

[Casey Kerrigan]

In article
<64caee53-c099-4b80-95fb-711f3f61f9dc@n75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
Paul G. <carbide@egine.com> wrote:

> On Feb 25, 8:57 pm, Casey Kerrigan <ca...@caseykerrigan.com> wrote:
> >
> > Actually nascar does have rain tires and they can run in the rain on a
> > road course. The reason they can't do rain tires and run on oval tracks
> > is they can't make rain tires that can take the heat tha tis generated
> > on an oval track.
>
> Is it a race or not? If it's a race, someone's gonna finish first. It
> might actually take some driving skill too, and better separate the
> men from the boys. I recall one of the recent TDF time trials where it
> was raining and some of the big guns fell. The better bike handlers
> didn't. Survival of the fittest.
> -Paul
>
NASCAR drivers have a lot of skill. There was a special event where
Jeff Gordon went to Indy when the Forumula one race was there and did a
few laps in a F1 car. In just a couple of laps Jeff was turning lap
times very close to what the regular F1 drivers were doing. It isn't
uncommon for an unskilled driver to spin out an F1 car the first time
they try to start up due to the increadable amount of power those cars
have. Jeff never cam close to spinning the car on his first start.

Also remember that you don't race on an outdoor velodrome when the
track is wet. You can't get enough traction on a wet velodrome to race
safely, or does this just mean that track riders are no skill hacks who
can't figure out how to race safely in the rain?

[Kurgan Gringioni]

On Feb 25, 11:39*pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> In article <28c5b0f2-d0b5-457b-b5fb-d901a4952...@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> *"Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 25, 7:06 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > > They have no tires with a tread, much less rain tires. And I assure you
> > > there's no wipers on any of the cars.
>
> > Hmmmnnn... the TOC riders rode thru rain day after day... no tires with a tread,
> > much less rain tires. And I assure you there's no wipers on any of the bikes.
> > Like I said, NASCAR is a bunch of wimps.
>
> * *You really don't see any difference between the traction requirements of the guys
> on bikes and the guys in cars going way faster? Okay...




Dumbass -


Forumula One baby!

Or: Moto GP, Superbike.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[Paul G.]

On Feb 25, 11:39 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> You really don't see any difference between the traction requirements of the guys
> on bikes and the guys in cars going way faster? Okay...

Both have less traction in the rain. Cyclists deal with it- or crash.
It takes skill, courage and toughness that the NASCAR drivers don't
have. I've raced down a twisty descent in a heavy, cold rain myself .
My hands were numb and I could hardly see thru my glasses, but I made
it and went on to win. But heck, I'm a wimp compared with the TOC
riders who rode in the rain day after day. Maybe the ones who dropped
out should take up something easier, like NASCAR "racing". ;-)
-Paul

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article
<4b82209c-5ec4-40ea-9767-4eeb3de1725b@d5g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
Kurgan Gringioni <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 25, 11:39*pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> > In article
> > <28c5b0f2-d0b5-457b-b5fb-d901a4952...@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> > *"Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Feb 25, 7:06 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > They have no tires with a tread, much less rain tires. And I assure you
> > > > there's no wipers on any of the cars.
> >
> > > Hmmmnnn... the TOC riders rode thru rain day after day... no tires with a
> > > tread,
> > > much less rain tires. And I assure you there's no wipers on any of the
> > > bikes.
> > > Like I said, NASCAR is a bunch of wimps.
> >
> > * *You really don't see any difference between the traction requirements of
> > the guys
> > on bikes and the guys in cars going way faster? Okay...
>
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> Forumula One baby!
>
> Or: Moto GP, Superbike.

1) Those are all very impressive, and none of them involve relatively
heavy cars with relatively low levels of downforce running on ovals.

2) All of the formulae you cited have red-flagged races due to heavy
rain. It happens routinely, though I won't say it happens in every one
of those series every season.

3) This interesting liveblog of a wet Indy 500 has some useful insight
into why F1 can run in the rain and oval racers don't:

<http://sports.yahoo.com/irl/news?slug=gk-indylive052707&prov=yhoo&type=l
gns>

4) I think the key answer is that F1 simply doesn't combine very long
full-throttle runs with entry into very long, fast turns. To put it in
cyclist-terms, the corners on an oval are consequential lines.

5) I suspect that given the requirements of rain tires on ovals, the
prospective tire providers just throw up their hands. We certainly have
one instance, with the Great Indy Fiasco, of a modern race-tire provider
looking at a perfectly dry sorta-oval and saying they couldn't do it.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

[Kurgan Gringioni]

On Feb 26, 1:19*am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article
> <4b82209c-5ec4-40ea-9767-4eeb3de17...@d5g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> *Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 25, 11:39*pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <28c5b0f2-d0b5-457b-b5fb-d901a4952...@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> > > *"Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 25, 7:06 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > They have no tires with a tread, much less rain tires. And I assure you
> > > > > there's no wipers on any of the cars.
>
> > > > Hmmmnnn... the TOC riders rode thru rain day after day... no tires with a
> > > > tread,
> > > > much less rain tires. And I assure you there's no wipers on any of the
> > > > bikes.
> > > > Like I said, NASCAR is a bunch of wimps.
>
> > > * *You really don't see any difference between the traction requirements of
> > > the guys
> > > on bikes and the guys in cars going way faster? Okay...
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > Forumula One baby!
>
> > Or: Moto GP, Superbike.
>
> 1) Those are all very impressive, and none of them involve relatively
> heavy cars with relatively low levels of downforce running on ovals.
>
> 2) All of the formulae you cited have red-flagged races due to heavy
> rain. It happens routinely, though I won't say it happens in every one
> of those series every season.
>
> 3) This interesting liveblog of a wet Indy 500 has some useful insight
> into why F1 can run in the rain and oval racers don't:
>
> <http://sports.yahoo.com/irl/news?slug=gk-indylive052707&prov=yhoo&type=l
> gns>
>
> 4) I think the key answer is that F1 simply doesn't combine very long
> full-throttle runs with entry into very long, fast turns. To put it in
> cyclist-terms, the corners on an oval are consequential lines.
>
> 5) I suspect that given the requirements of rain tires on ovals, the
> prospective tire providers just throw up their hands. We certainly have
> one instance, with the Great Indy Fiasco, of a modern race-tire provider
> looking at a perfectly dry sorta-oval and saying they couldn't do it.



Dumbass -


That is a retarded rationalization. At the 2005 F1 Indy race,
Bridgestone had their **** together. Michelin didn't. The next year
they both had it together. So, obviously, it's possible, unless you're
the typical wanking, bike racing excuse maker.

As for NASCAR, when it's raining they just gotta be disciplined, go
slower.

Pussies.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[bjw@mambo.ucolick.org]

On Feb 26, 2:19*am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> *Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 25, 11:39*pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> > > *"Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote:
> > > > On Feb 25, 7:06 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > They have no tires with a tread, much less rain tires. And I assure you
> > > > > there's no wipers on any of the cars.
>
> > > > Hmmmnnn... the TOC riders rode thru rain day after day... no tires with a
> > > > tread,
> > > > much less rain tires. And I assure you there's no wipers on any of the
> > > > bikes.
> > > > Like I said, NASCAR is a bunch of wimps.
>
> > > * *You really don't see any difference between the traction requirements of
> > > the guys
> > > on bikes and the guys in cars going way faster? Okay...
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > Forumula One baby!
>
> > Or: Moto GP, Superbike.
>
> 1) Those are all very impressive, and none of them involve relatively
> heavy cars with relatively low levels of downforce running on ovals.

Dumbass,

I don't hate NASCAR and I certainly don't think
NASCAR drivers are wimps, or that NASCAR
should try to get people killed by running in
heavy rain. But your point about heavy cars,
lack of downforce, and ovals has a subtext,
which is: stock cars aren't very good as race cars.

Technologically speaking, that is. NASCAR
has created a successful entertainment
product, and maybe the restrictive rules are
the reason. But if you were going to design
a car to go fast and turn, you wouldn't make
it look like a "stock car."

Ben

[Donald Munro]

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> That is a retarded rationalization. At the 2005 F1 Indy race, Bridgestone
> had their **** together. Michelin didn't. The next year they both had it
> together. So, obviously, it's possible, unless you're the typical wanking,
> bike racing excuse maker.

Hey, if you can't get the podium girls whats left but wanking.

> As for NASCAR, when it's raining they just gotta be disciplined, go
> slower.

Perhaps it requires more skill than what they're used to.

[critposer]

On Feb 26, 2:37*am, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 26, 1:19*am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article
> > <4b82209c-5ec4-40ea-9767-4eeb3de17...@d5g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> > *Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 25, 11:39*pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > <28c5b0f2-d0b5-457b-b5fb-d901a4952...@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > *"Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Feb 25, 7:06 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > They have no tires with a tread, much less rain tires. And I assure you
> > > > > > there's no wipers on any of the cars.
>
> > > > > Hmmmnnn... the TOC riders rode thru rain day after day... no tires with a
> > > > > tread,
> > > > > much less rain tires. And I assure you there's no wipers on any of the
> > > > > bikes.
> > > > > Like I said, NASCAR is a bunch of wimps.
>
> > > > * *You really don't see any difference between the traction requirements of
> > > > the guys
> > > > on bikes and the guys in cars going way faster? Okay...
>
> > > Dumbass -
>
> > > Forumula One baby!
>
> > > Or: Moto GP, Superbike.
>
> > 1) Those are all very impressive, and none of them involve relatively
> > heavy cars with relatively low levels of downforce running on ovals.
>
> > 2) All of the formulae you cited have red-flagged races due to heavy
> > rain. It happens routinely, though I won't say it happens in every one
> > of those series every season.
>
> > 3) This interesting liveblog of a wet Indy 500 has some useful insight
> > into why F1 can run in the rain and oval racers don't:
>
> > <http://sports.yahoo.com/irl/news?slug=gk-indylive052707&prov=yhoo&type=l
> > gns>
>
> > 4) I think the key answer is that F1 simply doesn't combine very long
> > full-throttle runs with entry into very long, fast turns. To put it in
> > cyclist-terms, the corners on an oval are consequential lines.
>
> > 5) I suspect that given the requirements of rain tires on ovals, the
> > prospective tire providers just throw up their hands. We certainly have
> > one instance, with the Great Indy Fiasco, of a modern race-tire provider
> > looking at a perfectly dry sorta-oval and saying they couldn't do it.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> That is a retarded rationalization. At the 2005 F1 Indy race,
> Bridgestone had their **** together. Michelin didn't. The next year
> they both had it together. So, obviously, it's possible, unless you're
> the typical wanking, bike racing excuse maker.
>
> As for NASCAR, when it's raining they just gotta be disciplined, go
> slower.
>
> Pussies.

Even you're not that big a dumbass to believe this, are you? There's a
reason F1 guys had a major ass-pucker when they raced at Indy, even in
the dry. Ask Ralf. To compare to NASCAR is ridiculous. Even if NASCAR
had a rain tire, they've got 40+ cars that are on a nearly equal
basis, racing on courses as short as a half mile. F1 has 4 or 5
competitive cars out of a field of 20, running on circuits of 3+
miles, most with gigantic runoff areas. On-track passes for the lead
happen once every few races. Oh, and don't forget that F1 guys are
encased in a CF tub that can survive insane impacts (e.g. Kubica's
crash last year). NASCAR's roll cage frame doesn't compare. Look at
the fatality rates of NASCAR vs. F1 post-Senna if you doubt it (though
the HANS and the Safer barriers seem to have worked). I'd love to see
Darlington run in a downpour with 40 cars on rain tires, with
"disciplined" drivers. The idea that a group of F1 drivers with 40+
nearly-equal cars with rain tires on a 1/2 mile course with no runoff
areas would somehow have a "good race" in the rain is just plain
ignorant.

As for any of these guys F1, IRL/CART, ALMS, or NASCAR being
"pussies", I wonder how many people posting here have ever been on a
race track in even a street car, much less in even the crappiest race
car being driven at the limit. To call anyone who has the balls to do
these races "pussies" in any way, is worse than being a Masters
Fattie.

[Michael Press]

In article
<e04e8f11-af56-42d5-a30e-23712236951b@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Kurgan Gringioni <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 26, 1:19*am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > In article
> > <4b82209c-5ec4-40ea-9767-4eeb3de17...@d5g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> > *Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 25, 11:39*pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > <28c5b0f2-d0b5-457b-b5fb-d901a4952...@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > *"Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > On Feb 25, 7:06 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > > They have no tires with a tread, much less rain tires. And I assure you
> > > > > > there's no wipers on any of the cars.
> >
> > > > > Hmmmnnn... the TOC riders rode thru rain day after day... no tires with a
> > > > > tread,
> > > > > much less rain tires. And I assure you there's no wipers on any of the
> > > > > bikes.
> > > > > Like I said, NASCAR is a bunch of wimps.
> >
> > > > * *You really don't see any difference between the traction requirements of
> > > > the guys
> > > > on bikes and the guys in cars going way faster? Okay...
> >
> > > Dumbass -
> >
> > > Forumula One baby!
> >
> > > Or: Moto GP, Superbike.
> >
> > 1) Those are all very impressive, and none of them involve relatively
> > heavy cars with relatively low levels of downforce running on ovals.
> >
> > 2) All of the formulae you cited have red-flagged races due to heavy
> > rain. It happens routinely, though I won't say it happens in every one
> > of those series every season.
> >
> > 3) This interesting liveblog of a wet Indy 500 has some useful insight
> > into why F1 can run in the rain and oval racers don't:
> >
> > <http://sports.yahoo.com/irl/news?slug=gk-indylive052707&prov=yhoo&type=l
> > gns>
> >
> > 4) I think the key answer is that F1 simply doesn't combine very long
> > full-throttle runs with entry into very long, fast turns. To put it in
> > cyclist-terms, the corners on an oval are consequential lines.
> >
> > 5) I suspect that given the requirements of rain tires on ovals, the
> > prospective tire providers just throw up their hands. We certainly have
> > one instance, with the Great Indy Fiasco, of a modern race-tire provider
> > looking at a perfectly dry sorta-oval and saying they couldn't do it.
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> That is a retarded rationalization. At the 2005 F1 Indy race,
> Bridgestone had their **** together. Michelin didn't. The next year
> they both had it together. So, obviously, it's possible, unless you're
> the typical wanking, bike racing excuse maker.
>
> As for NASCAR, when it's raining they just gotta be disciplined, go
> slower.
>
> Pussies.

Disciplined. Go slower. :)
I too think they should run the damned race.
Ooh it's raining. We can't dooo it. <whine>

Somebody will cross the finish line.
Here is my plan for the drivers.
Veterans identify the loose cannons,
and put them out of the race early.

--
Michael Press

[Kurgan Gringioni]

On Feb 26, 2:24*am, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> > That is a retarded rationalization. At the 2005 F1 Indy race, Bridgestone
> > had their **** together. Michelin didn't. The next year they both had it
> > together. So, obviously, it's possible, unless you're the typical wanking,
> > bike racing excuse maker.
>
> Hey, if you can't get the podium girls whats left but wanking.
>
> > As for NASCAR, when it's raining they just gotta be disciplined, go
> > slower.
>
> Perhaps it requires more skill than what they're used to.



Dumbass -


OK there, finally some honesty.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[Kurgan Gringioni]

On Feb 26, 2:24*am, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> Perhaps it requires more skill than what they're used to.




Dumbass -


posted upthread by weaselpoopower:

http://www.vimeo.com/348198/


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[Casey Kerrigan]

In article
<19fa8236-28e4-46e3-a32b-9a0ba29bb7c5@d5g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
<unforgiven99@juno.com> wrote:

> On Feb 26, 2:28 am, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> > In article <250220082057392445%ca...@caseykerrigan.com>,
> > Casey Kerrigan <ca...@caseykerrigan.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > In article <YOURhoward-94931B.19062025022...@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
> > > Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > In article
> > > > <fba6dcb7-7746-4380-a079-b9dde6895...@t66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > unforgive...@juno.com wrote:
> >
> > > > > On Feb 25, 12:08 pm, "Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote:
> > > > > > I got a good laugh out of this- after watching the Tour of
> > > > > > California
> > > > > > riders racing thru the rain day after day I saw this article on how
> > > > > > NASCAR reacted to the same rain. What a bunch of wimps! ;-))
> >
> > > > > > NASCAR: Slippery when wet
> > > > > > Jimmie Johnson was leading the NASCAR Sprint Cup race in California
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > Sunday night when it was halted due to rain. The race will be
> > > > > > finished
> > > > > > on Monday.
> > > > > > A rainy weekend in Southern California wreaked havoc on NASCAR's
> > > > > > schedule at the California Speedway.NASCAR officials finally threw
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > the towel when rain brought out the second red flag stop of the
> > > > > > race.The race was red flagged for more than an hour after just 21
> > > > > > laps, due to a pair of crashes attributed to water weeping from
> > > > > > cracks
> > > > > > in the track surface.
> >
> > > > > Ironically enough, NASCAR does run in the rain on road courses. So
> > > > > rain tires exist, and every driver has at least one car with
> > > > > windshield wipers. Maybe they figure that cars chasing each other
> > > > > around an oval can just barely be considered racing at 200mph.
> > > > > Speedway racing in the rain would be like watching paint dry.
> >
> > > > No, they don't run in the rain on road courses unless it's just
> > > > slightly
> > > > damp. They have no tires with a tread, much less rain tires. And I
> > > > assure you
> > > > there's no wipers on any of the cars.
> >
> > > Actually nascar does have rain tires and they can run in the rain on a
> > > road course. The reason they can't do rain tires and run on oval tracks
> > > is they can't make rain tires that can take the heat tha tis generated
> > > on an oval track. On road courses they go slower and ther eisn't nearly
> > > the heat build up that they experience on a track. Even on a road
> > > course as the course starts to dry up and the speeds pick up you can
> > > destroy the rain tires from heat build up so the teams have to judge
> > > when the course is dry enough to go back to the slicks. As the track is
> > > getting dry it is funny to watch the drivers who are still on rain
> > > tires to go off their normal line to go through those sections of the
> > > track that are still a bit wet in an attempt to try and keep their tire
> > > Temps down.
> >
> > > Here is a link to a story about a race NASCAR ran in Japan in 1997 that
> > > was run on a road course and they used rain tires.
> > >http://www.stockcarracing.com/techarticles/1589_rain_tires_good_year/ind
> > > ex.html
> >
> > You're right, Casey - I'd missed that. But it doesn't look like they've
> > actually
> > raced on 'em yet. I've only done peripheral following of NASCAR for a long
> > time.
> >
> > > Here is another story from the NASCAR web site talking about how they
> > > are ready to race in the rain if it does rain at Watkins Glen in 2003
> > > as long as it isn't raining that hard.
> > >http://www.nascar.com/2003/news/headlines/wc/08/09/darby_rain/index.html
> >
> > You're also correct that the tire heat issues are the main cause for
> > short tire
> > life with rain tires. Heavy cars, soft rubber and low pressures makes for
> > problems.
> >
> > --
> > tanx,
> > Howard
> >
> > Whatever happened to
> > Leon Trotsky?
> > He got an icepick
> > That made his ears burn.
> >
> > remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
>
> Heat's a cop out. They would be burning up slicks at the big tracks
> if they didn't have restrictor plates to slow them down. The fact is
> that most of these drivers only know how to stand on the gas and turn
> left. If they actually had the skill to communicate with their
> machines in changing conditions they wouldn't need electronic rev
> limiters to keep themselves from blowing the engines up.

The reason why NASCAR runs restrictor plates at two tracks ( Daytona
and Tallidega ) is for insurance reasons. NASCAR can't get insurance if
the cars in those races are going 200+ on a constant basis. When those
heavy cars crash at over 200 MPH they have a tendancy to go over the
outside restrainng wall in into the spectator crowd. Killing or causing
serious injury to a bunch of your paying spectators isn't a good thing
and leads to lawsuits. The restrictor plates have nothing to do with
not burning out tires.

[Paul G.]

On Feb 26, 8:03 am, Casey Kerrigan <ca...@caseykerrigan.com> wrote:

>
> NASCAR drivers have a lot of skill. There was a special event where
> Jeff Gordon went to Indy

"Special Event"? Is that like "Special Olympics"?

C'mon, there's no comparison between the skill level of NASCAR drivers
and the TOC riders. The car does all the work in NASCAR, it's the
mechanics who win their "races". Let's have Jeff Gordon and Levi race
each other-an hour of NASCAR driving, an hour of cycling. Lots of
twisties. Hey, make the cycling all downhill, courses like the
backside of Mt Hamilton. Then look at the ratio of distance covered.
Not including Gordon's helicopter flight to the hospital, of course.
Now, what would be really unfair to Gordon is making it all in the
rain, which is my point. ;-)).

NASCAR is a vulgar soap opera. Now motorcycle racing, there you have
something...
-Paul

[Donald Munro]

Casey Kerrigan wrote:
> Also remember that you don't race on an outdoor velodrome when the track
> is wet. You can't get enough traction on a wet velodrome to race safely,

Only because you accelerate uncontrollably in the corners.

[Kurgan Gringioni]

On Feb 26, 8:03*am, Casey Kerrigan <ca...@caseykerrigan.com> wrote:

> Also remember that you don't race on an outdoor velodrome when the
> track is wet. You can't get enough traction on a wet velodrome to race
> safely, or does this just mean that track riders are no skill hacks who
> can't figure out how to race safely in the rain?



Dumbass -


Yes.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[Kurgan Gringioni]

On Feb 26, 8:03*am, Casey Kerrigan <ca...@caseykerrigan.com> wrote:

>
> Also remember that you don't race on an outdoor velodrome when the
> track is wet. You can't get enough traction on a wet velodrome to race
> safely, or does this just mean that track riders are no skill hacks who
> can't figure out how to race safely in the rain?



Dumbass -

posted upthread by weaselpoopower:

http://www.vimeo.com/348198/


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[Paul G.]

On Feb 26, 9:24 am, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Casey Kerrigan wrote:
> > Also remember that you don't race on an outdoor velodrome when the track
> > is wet. You can't get enough traction on a wet velodrome to race safely,
>
> Only because you accelerate uncontrollably in the corners.

Yeah- I'm not saying drag racers or salt flat record setters should
drive in the rain. I'm comparing the TOC and a NASCAR "race" in the
same rain storm. Both are road races. The bike race went on, the
NASCAR race was postponed. I don't know much about NASCAR -or
"Professional Wrestling"- but it's apparent they *could* have driven
in the rain, and someone with the right combination of balls, skill,
and brains would have won. Postponing just favors the wusses. Besides,
it's not like they slide down the road on Lycra if they lose it- and
don't those NASCAR fans come just for the crashes? It could have been
the most memorable NASCAR "race" of the year.
-Paul

[Kurgan Gringioni]

On Feb 26, 11:16*am, WeaselPoopPower <wea...@poop.ca> wrote:
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> > Dumbasses -
>
> > Formula One races in the rain.
>
> Yes, they do - "Rain Heros"
> Watch it once, then again full screen.http://www.vimeo.com/348198/



Dude, that kicks ass.

[zzfranklin@mac.com]

On Feb 26, 11:16 am, WeaselPoopPower <wea...@poop.ca> wrote:
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> > Dumbasses -
>
> > Formula One races in the rain.
>
> Yes, they do - "Rain Heros"
> Watch it once, then again full screen.http://www.vimeo.com/348198/

Big deal.

http://www.deltavelo.com/race_coverage/2007_road/sea_otter/womens_circuit.html

Well, maybe not.

[Carl Sundquist]

"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:092b8dd6-3a15-4c4c-90f7-fe6828e390ae@v3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 26, 8:03 am, Casey Kerrigan <ca...@caseykerrigan.com> wrote:

> Also remember that you don't race on an outdoor velodrome when the
> track is wet. You can't get enough traction on a wet velodrome to race
> safely, or does this just mean that track riders are no skill hacks who
> can't figure out how to race safely in the rain?



Dumbass -


Yes.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.
---------------------


Put a field of pro bike racers on a wet crit course three bike widths or
even four bike widths wide, with concrete walls on the outside, then ask
them whether they consider it bull****. Then ask them if they consider
whatever event would be put on in such a forum to be worthy of being called
a race or the stupidest, most pointless f-ing thing they have ever seen in
their lives.

Having a start line and a finish line does not constitute the essence of a
sporting event.

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 11:27:16 -0800 (PST), Kurgan Gringioni
<kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Feb 26, 11:16*am, WeaselPoopPower <wea...@poop.ca> wrote:
>> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>> > Dumbasses -
>>
>> > Formula One races in the rain.
>>
>> Yes, they do - "Rain Heros"
>> Watch it once, then again full screen.http://www.vimeo.com/348198/
>
>
>
>Dude, that kicks ass.

Dumbasses.

Ditto.

Thanks.

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article
<1031ecf9-157a-4ade-9e10-8772de9d9081@v3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
Kurgan Gringioni <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 26, 2:24*am, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Perhaps it requires more skill than what they're used to.
>
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> posted upthread by weaselpoopower:
>
> http://www.vimeo.com/348198/

Whoa! I'm going to have to start watching F1 again.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

[Casey Kerrigan]

In article
<2aaa0dac-295f-46d0-9082-aa078ca51592@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
Paul G. <carbide@egine.com> wrote:

> On Feb 26, 9:24 am, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Casey Kerrigan wrote:
> > > Also remember that you don't race on an outdoor velodrome when the track
> > > is wet. You can't get enough traction on a wet velodrome to race safely,
> >
> > Only because you accelerate uncontrollably in the corners.
>
> Yeah- I'm not saying drag racers or salt flat record setters should
> drive in the rain. I'm comparing the TOC and a NASCAR "race" in the
> same rain storm. Both are road races. The bike race went on, the
> NASCAR race was postponed. I don't know much about NASCAR -or
> "Professional Wrestling"- but it's apparent they *could* have driven
> in the rain, and someone with the right combination of balls, skill,
> and brains would have won. Postponing just favors the wusses. Besides,
> it's not like they slide down the road on Lycra if they lose it- and
> don't those NASCAR fans come just for the crashes? It could have been
> the most memorable NASCAR "race" of the year.
> -Paul
>
The NASCAR race was not a road race it was a track race. If the NASCAR
race had been a road race then they could have raced in the rain.
NASCAR only has two road races on their 36 race schedule.

[Paul G.]

On Feb 26, 12:48 pm, Casey Kerrigan <ca...@caseykerrigan.com> wrote:
> In article
> <2aaa0dac-295f-46d0-9082-aa078ca51...@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> Paul G. <carb...@egine.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 26, 9:24 am, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Casey Kerrigan wrote:
> > > > Also remember that you don't race on an outdoor velodrome when the track
> > > > is wet. You can't get enough traction on a wet velodrome to race safely,
>
> > > Only because you accelerate uncontrollably in the corners.
>
> > Yeah- I'm not saying drag racers or salt flat record setters should
> > drive in the rain. I'm comparing the TOC and a NASCAR "race" in the
> > same rain storm. Both are road races. The bike race went on, the
> > NASCAR race was postponed. I don't know much about NASCAR -or
> > "Professional Wrestling"- but it's apparent they *could* have driven
> > in the rain, and someone with the right combination of balls, skill,
> > and brains would have won. Postponing just favors the wusses. Besides,
> > it's not like they slide down the road on Lycra if they lose it- and
> > don't those NASCAR fans come just for the crashes? It could have been
> > the most memorable NASCAR "race" of the year.
> > -Paul
>
> The NASCAR race was not a road race it was a track race. If the NASCAR
> race had been a road race then they could have raced in the rain.
> NASCAR only has two road races on their 36 race schedule.

OK- like I said, I'm not an expert on NASCAR- or roller derby. I'll
cede to your greater knowledge of the "sport"- it's a track. They're
still wusses. :-)
-Paul

[Paul G.]

On Feb 26, 3:56 pm, critposer <critpo...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> As for any of these guys F1, IRL/CART, ALMS, or NASCAR being
> "pussies", I wonder how many people posting here have ever been on a
> race track in even a street car, much less in even the crappiest race
> car being driven at the limit. To call anyone who has the balls to do
> these races "pussies" in any way, is worse than being a Masters
> Fattie.

Ballls? On a NASCAR driver? I think those are fuzzy dice. Their
"races" are like a Cat 3 criterium, only relaxed, lounging back in a
comfy seat, nestled in their roll cages. How do they stay awake thru
all those boring laps? Drive, turn left. Drive, turn left. Drive turn
left. Drive, turn left. And that's only 1 lap! The main hazard is the
squirrelly guys around you, and they go out too fast an blow their
engines. Just like Cat 3 newbies. ;-)

I heard one on TV a while back saying he got into NASCAR cuz he was
lazy. I can relate to that, I'm lazy too. But no one riding at the
level of the TOC is lazy. And anyone who rode all those days in the
rain is WAY tougher than those NASCAR wusses. And that's my point.
-Paul

[Kurgan Gringioni]

On Feb 26, 3:56*pm, critposer <critpo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 26, 2:37*am, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 26, 1:19*am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > In article
> > > <4b82209c-5ec4-40ea-9767-4eeb3de17...@d5g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> > > *Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 25, 11:39*pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> > > > > In article
> > > > > <28c5b0f2-d0b5-457b-b5fb-d901a4952...@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > *"Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Feb 25, 7:06 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > They have no tires with a tread, much less rain tires. And I assure you
> > > > > > > there's no wipers on any of the cars.
>
> > > > > > Hmmmnnn... the TOC riders rode thru rain day after day... no tires with a
> > > > > > tread,
> > > > > > much less rain tires. And I assure you there's no wipers on any of the
> > > > > > bikes.
> > > > > > Like I said, NASCAR is a bunch of wimps.
>
> > > > > * *You really don't see any difference between the traction requirements of
> > > > > the guys
> > > > > on bikes and the guys in cars going way faster? Okay...
>
> > > > Dumbass -
>
> > > > Forumula One baby!
>
> > > > Or: Moto GP, Superbike.
>
> > > 1) Those are all very impressive, and none of them involve relatively
> > > heavy cars with relatively low levels of downforce running on ovals.
>
> > > 2) All of the formulae you cited have red-flagged races due to heavy
> > > rain. It happens routinely, though I won't say it happens in every one
> > > of those series every season.
>
> > > 3) This interesting liveblog of a wet Indy 500 has some useful insight
> > > into why F1 can run in the rain and oval racers don't:
>
> > > <http://sports.yahoo.com/irl/news?slug=gk-indylive052707&prov=yhoo&type=l
> > > gns>
>
> > > 4) I think the key answer is that F1 simply doesn't combine very long
> > > full-throttle runs with entry into very long, fast turns. To put it in
> > > cyclist-terms, the corners on an oval are consequential lines.
>
> > > 5) I suspect that given the requirements of rain tires on ovals, the
> > > prospective tire providers just throw up their hands. We certainly have
> > > one instance, with the Great Indy Fiasco, of a modern race-tire provider
> > > looking at a perfectly dry sorta-oval and saying they couldn't do it.
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > That is a retarded rationalization. At the 2005 F1 Indy race,
> > Bridgestone had their **** together. Michelin didn't. The next year
> > they both had it together. So, obviously, it's possible, unless you're
> > the typical wanking, bike racing excuse maker.
>
> > As for NASCAR, when it's raining they just gotta be disciplined, go
> > slower.
>
> > Pussies.
>
> Even you're not that big a dumbass to believe this, are you? There's a
> reason F1 guys had a major ass-pucker when they raced at Indy, even in
> the dry. Ask Ralf. To compare to NASCAR is ridiculous. Even if NASCAR
> had a rain tire, they've got 40+ cars that are on a nearly equal
> basis, racing on courses as short as a half mile. F1 has 4 or 5
> competitive cars out of a field of 20, running on circuits of 3+
> miles, most with gigantic runoff areas. On-track passes for the lead
> happen once every few races. Oh, and don't forget that F1 guys are
> encased in a CF tub that can survive insane impacts (e.g. Kubica's
> crash last year). NASCAR's roll cage frame doesn't compare. Look at
> the fatality rates of NASCAR vs. F1 post-Senna if you doubt it (though
> the HANS and the Safer barriers seem to have worked). I'd love to see
> Darlington run in a downpour with 40 cars on rain tires, with
> "disciplined" drivers. The idea that a group of F1 drivers with 40+
> nearly-equal cars with rain tires on a 1/2 mile course with no runoff
> areas would somehow have a "good race" in the rain is just plain
> ignorant.



Dumbass -


They'd just have to adapt.

It's totally within their abilities. NASCAR just doesn't want to spend
the money for rain strategies/tires/technology.

They adopted the Car of Tommorrow for the same reason.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[Bill C]

On Feb 26, 7:22*pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
Pussies.
>
> Disciplined. Go slower. :)
> I too think they should run the damned race.
> Ooh it's raining. We can't dooo it. <whine>
>
> Somebody will cross the finish line.
> Here is my plan for the drivers.
> Veterans identify the loose cannons,
> and put them out of the race early.
>
> --
> Michael Press- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Pussies race on the road! Real men race Cross on ice, during
blizzards. Anything else is for Richard Simmons wannabes.
Bill C

[Kurgan Gringioni]

On Feb 26, 4:22*pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article
> <e04e8f11-af56-42d5-a30e-237122369...@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> *Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 26, 1:19*am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <4b82209c-5ec4-40ea-9767-4eeb3de17...@d5g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> > > *Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 25, 11:39*pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> > > > > In article
> > > > > <28c5b0f2-d0b5-457b-b5fb-d901a4952...@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > *"Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Feb 25, 7:06 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > They have no tires with a tread, much less rain tires. And I assure you
> > > > > > > there's no wipers on any of the cars.
>
> > > > > > Hmmmnnn... the TOC riders rode thru rain day after day... no tires with a
> > > > > > tread,
> > > > > > much less rain tires. And I assure you there's no wipers on any of the
> > > > > > bikes.
> > > > > > Like I said, NASCAR is a bunch of wimps.
>
> > > > > * *You really don't see any difference between the traction requirements of
> > > > > the guys
> > > > > on bikes and the guys in cars going way faster? Okay...
>
> > > > Dumbass -
>
> > > > Forumula One baby!
>
> > > > Or: Moto GP, Superbike.
>
> > > 1) Those are all very impressive, and none of them involve relatively
> > > heavy cars with relatively low levels of downforce running on ovals.
>
> > > 2) All of the formulae you cited have red-flagged races due to heavy
> > > rain. It happens routinely, though I won't say it happens in every one
> > > of those series every season.
>
> > > 3) This interesting liveblog of a wet Indy 500 has some useful insight
> > > into why F1 can run in the rain and oval racers don't:
>
> > > <http://sports.yahoo.com/irl/news?slug=gk-indylive052707&prov=yhoo&type=l
> > > gns>
>
> > > 4) I think the key answer is that F1 simply doesn't combine very long
> > > full-throttle runs with entry into very long, fast turns. To put it in
> > > cyclist-terms, the corners on an oval are consequential lines.
>
> > > 5) I suspect that given the requirements of rain tires on ovals, the
> > > prospective tire providers just throw up their hands. We certainly have
> > > one instance, with the Great Indy Fiasco, of a modern race-tire provider
> > > looking at a perfectly dry sorta-oval and saying they couldn't do it.
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > That is a retarded rationalization. At the 2005 F1 Indy race,
> > Bridgestone had their **** together. Michelin didn't. The next year
> > they both had it together. So, obviously, it's possible, unless you're
> > the typical wanking, bike racing excuse maker.
>
> > As for NASCAR, when it's raining they just gotta be disciplined, go
> > slower.
>
> > Pussies.
>
> Disciplined. Go slower. :)




Dumbass -


BINGO.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[Casey Kerrigan]

In article
<4364f1d6-7016-42cd-9a74-ec62afd72b13@q78g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
Paul G. <carbide@egine.com> wrote:

> On Feb 26, 3:56 pm, critposer <critpo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > As for any of these guys F1, IRL/CART, ALMS, or NASCAR being
> > "pussies", I wonder how many people posting here have ever been on a
> > race track in even a street car, much less in even the crappiest race
> > car being driven at the limit. To call anyone who has the balls to do
> > these races "pussies" in any way, is worse than being a Masters
> > Fattie.
>
> Ballls? On a NASCAR driver? I think those are fuzzy dice. Their
> "races" are like a Cat 3 criterium, only relaxed, lounging back in a
> comfy seat, nestled in their roll cages. How do they stay awake thru
> all those boring laps? Drive, turn left. Drive, turn left. Drive turn
> left. Drive, turn left. And that's only 1 lap! The main hazard is the
> squirrelly guys around you, and they go out too fast an blow their
> engines. Just like Cat 3 newbies. ;-)
>
> I heard one on TV a while back saying he got into NASCAR cuz he was
> lazy. I can relate to that, I'm lazy too. But no one riding at the
> level of the TOC is lazy. And anyone who rode all those days in the
> rain is WAY tougher than those NASCAR wusses. And that's my point.
> -Paul

Yea right those NASCAR cars are just soooo comfy to sit in considering
the average Temp insde one of those cars is like 135 degrees. Heck some
drivers have actually developed burns on the bottom of their feet since
they are sitting right over the top of the exhaust system.

[Bob Schwartz]

Casey Kerrigan wrote:
> Heck some
> drivers have actually developed burns on the bottom of their feet since
> they are sitting right over the top of the exhaust system.

Disquieting.

Bob Schwartz

[Kurgan Gringioni]

On Feb 26, 7:03*pm, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> Casey Kerrigan wrote:
> > Heck some
> > drivers have actually developed burns on the bottom of their feet since
> > they are sitting right over the top of the exhaust system.
>
> Disquieting.



Dumbass -


And stoopid.

Heat shields. Cheap and they work.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[William Asher]

Bob Schwartz wrote:

> Casey Kerrigan wrote:
>> Heck some
>> drivers have actually developed burns on the bottom of their feet since
>> they are sitting right over the top of the exhaust system.
>
> Disquieting.
>

What I find disquieting is that you all have created a thread that is
duller for me than one on climate change must be for most of you. Good
christ, you're not even really fighting with each other and your bot hasn't
called anyone gay. I try to provide that entertainment for you when
climate comes up. At the very least, somebody needs to cross-post this to
rec.autos.sport.nascar to really up the combatitiveness quality.

Thanks.

--
Bill Asher

[Bob Schwartz]

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> On Feb 26, 7:03 pm, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>> Casey Kerrigan wrote:
>>> Heck some
>>> drivers have actually developed burns on the bottom of their feet since
>>> they are sitting right over the top of the exhaust system.
>> Disquieting.
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> And stoopid.
>
> Heat shields. Cheap and they work.
>
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.

No, disquieting that Casey knows as much about NASCAR
as he does. It makes me wonder if he drinks Coors or
Budweiser when he's drinking alone.

Bob Schwartz

[Paul G.]

On Feb 26, 8:19 pm, "Carl Sundquist" <carl...@cox.net> wrote:

> Then ask them if they consider
> whatever event would be put on in such a forum to be worthy of being called
> a race or the stupidest, most pointless f-ing thing they have ever seen in
> their lives.
>
> Having a start line and a finish line does not constitute the essence of a
> sporting event.

Amazing! That's exactly my opinion of WUSSCAR. It's vulgar, stupid and
pointless. "Having a start line and a finish line does not constitute
the essence of a
sporting event." You said it!

As has already been pointed out, those mama's boys in WUSSCAR may be
afraid to drive in rain, but real auto racers aren't:
> posted upthread by weaselpoopower:

> http://www.vimeo.com/348198/

[Kurgan Gringioni]

On Feb 26, 8:19*pm, "Carl Sundquist" <carl...@cox.net> wrote:
> "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:092b8dd6-3a15-4c4c-90f7-fe6828e390ae@v3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 26, 8:03 am, Casey Kerrigan <ca...@caseykerrigan.com> wrote:
>
> > Also remember that you don't race on an outdoor velodrome when the
> > track is wet. You can't get enough traction on a wet velodrome to race
> > safely, or does this just mean that track riders are no skill hacks who
> > can't figure out how to race safely in the rain?
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Yes.
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.
> ---------------------
>
> Put a field of pro bike racers on a wet crit course three bike widths or
> even four bike widths wide, with concrete walls on the outside, then ask
> them whether they consider it bull****.


<snip>



Dumbass -


Velodrome is banked. No one's gonna be going into any walls. Bad
analogy.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[zzfranklin@mac.com]

On Feb 26, 10:27 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 26, 8:19 pm, "Carl Sundquist" <carl...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:092b8dd6-3a15-4c4c-90f7-fe6828e390ae@v3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> > On Feb 26, 8:03 am, Casey Kerrigan <ca...@caseykerrigan.com> wrote:
>
> > > Also remember that you don't race on an outdoor velodrome when the
> > > track is wet. You can't get enough traction on a wet velodrome to race
> > > safely, or does this just mean that track riders are no skill hacks who
> > > can't figure out how to race safely in the rain?
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > Yes.
>
> > thanks,
>
> > K. Gringioni.
> > ---------------------
>
> > Put a field of pro bike racers on a wet crit course three bike widths or
> > even four bike widths wide, with concrete walls on the outside, then ask
> > them whether they consider it bull****.
>
> <snip>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Velodrome is banked. No one's gonna be going into any walls. Bad
> analogy.
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.

Walls? No. Railing...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/nov06/nov26news2

[Carl Sundquist]

"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:61d3d58c-c3cb-453f-be0b-fb6091dc7e25@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 26, 8:19 pm, "Carl Sundquist" <carl...@cox.net> wrote:
> "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:092b8dd6-3a15-4c4c-90f7-fe6828e390ae@v3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 26, 8:03 am, Casey Kerrigan <ca...@caseykerrigan.com> wrote:
>
> > Also remember that you don't race on an outdoor velodrome when the
> > track is wet. You can't get enough traction on a wet velodrome to race
> > safely, or does this just mean that track riders are no skill hacks who
> > can't figure out how to race safely in the rain?
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Yes.
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.
> ---------------------
>
> Put a field of pro bike racers on a wet crit course three bike widths or
> even four bike widths wide, with concrete walls on the outside, then ask
> them whether they consider it bull****.


<snip>



Dumbass -


Velodrome is banked. No one's gonna be going into any walls. Bad
analogy.


thanks,

K. Gringioni
--------------------

Hansen Brother #3,

What skills are track riders lacking that would allow them to race safely in
the rain (Japanese Keirin tracks excepted)?

[Ted van de Weteringe]

zzfranklin@mac.com wrote:
> http://www.deltavelo.com/race_coverage/2007_road/sea_otter/womens_circuit.html

"I can't believe they're doing this. It's gotta be dangerous!"

Sigh.

[Donald Munro]

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> Technologically speaking, that is. NASCAR has created a successful
> entertainment product, and maybe the restrictive rules are the reason.
> But if you were going to design a car to go fast and turn, you wouldn't
> make it look like a "stock car."

American cars tend to look (and drive) like "stock cars".

[unforgiven99@juno.com]

On Feb 27, 5:15 am, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org>
wrote:
> On Feb 26, 2:19 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Feb 25, 11:39 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> > > > "Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Feb 25, 7:06 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > They have no tires with a tread, much less rain tires. And I assure you
> > > > > > there's no wipers on any of the cars.
>
> > > > > Hmmmnnn... the TOC riders rode thru rain day after day... no tires with a
> > > > > tread,
> > > > > much less rain tires. And I assure you there's no wipers on any of the
> > > > > bikes.
> > > > > Like I said, NASCAR is a bunch of wimps.
>
> > > > You really don't see any difference between the traction requirements of
> > > > the guys
> > > > on bikes and the guys in cars going way faster? Okay...
>
> > > Dumbass -
>
> > > Forumula One baby!
>
> > > Or: Moto GP, Superbike.
>
> > 1) Those are all very impressive, and none of them involve relatively
> > heavy cars with relatively low levels of downforce running on ovals.
>
> Dumbass,
>
> I don't hate NASCAR and I certainly don't think
> NASCAR drivers are wimps, or that NASCAR
> should try to get people killed by running in
> heavy rain. But your point about heavy cars,
> lack of downforce, and ovals has a subtext,
> which is: stock cars aren't very good as race cars.
>
> Technologically speaking, that is. NASCAR
> has created a successful entertainment
> product, and maybe the restrictive rules are
> the reason. But if you were going to design
> a car to go fast and turn, you wouldn't make
> it look like a "stock car."
>
> Ben

That would have been a good excuse up until last year when they
switched over to the "Car of Tomorrow". Before that they were running
a chassis based on the '67 Ford Fairlane and a body sort of based on a
production car but re-shaped to equalize the drag numbers. By the
end, only the hood and deck lid needed to come off of whatever car
model they were claiming it was. The whole point of the re-design was
to make it an actual race car. With the hacked up front end and rear
wing they could have gotten more than enough down force if they wanted
it.

[Casey Kerrigan]

In article <kofxj.59199$Pv2.5834@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>, Bob
Schwartz <bob.schwartz@REMOVEsbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> > On Feb 26, 7:03 pm, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
> > wrote:
> >> Casey Kerrigan wrote:
> >>> Heck some
> >>> drivers have actually developed burns on the bottom of their feet since
> >>> they are sitting right over the top of the exhaust system.
> >> Disquieting.
> >
> >
> >
> > Dumbass -
> >
> >
> > And stoopid.
> >
> > Heat shields. Cheap and they work.
> >
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > K. Gringioni.
>
> No, disquieting that Casey knows as much about NASCAR
> as he does. It makes me wonder if he drinks Coors or
> Budweiser when he's drinking alone.
>
> Bob Schwartz
Sorry Bob I don't drink. Also the NASCAR event in Northern CA is the
largest single day sporting event in terms of spectators so I'm hardly
alone. I just happen to enjoy a wide variety of sporting events. If you
ever want bicycle racing to become more popular in the U.S. you need to
have more people like me, who have an open mind towards a wide variety
of sporting events.

[Bill C]

On Feb 27, 10:48*am, unforgive...@juno.com wrote:
> On Feb 27, 5:15 am, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 26, 2:19 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > *Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Feb 25, 11:39 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> > > > > *"Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Feb 25, 7:06 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > They have no tires with a tread, much less rain tires. And I assure you
> > > > > > > there's no wipers on any of the cars.
>
> > > > > > Hmmmnnn... the TOC riders rode thru rain day after day... no tires with a
> > > > > > tread,
> > > > > > much less rain tires. And I assure you there's no wipers on any of the
> > > > > > bikes.
> > > > > > Like I said, NASCAR is a bunch of wimps.
>
> > > > > * *You really don't see any difference between the traction requirements of
> > > > > the guys
> > > > > on bikes and the guys in cars going way faster? Okay...
>
> > > > Dumbass -
>
> > > > Forumula One baby!
>
> > > > Or: Moto GP, Superbike.
>
> > > 1) Those are all very impressive, and none of them involve relatively
> > > heavy cars with relatively low levels of downforce running on ovals.
>
> > Dumbass,
>
> > I don't hate NASCAR and I certainly don't think
> > NASCAR drivers are wimps, or that NASCAR
> > should try to get people killed by running in
> > heavy rain. *But your point about heavy cars,
> > lack of downforce, and ovals has a subtext,
> > which is: stock cars aren't very good as race cars.
>
> > Technologically speaking, that is. *NASCAR
> > has created a successful entertainment
> > product, and maybe the restrictive rules are
> > the reason. *But if you were going to design
> > a car to go fast and turn, you wouldn't make
> > it look like a "stock car."
>
> > Ben
>
> That would have been a good excuse up until last year when they
> switched over to the "Car of Tomorrow". *Before that they were running
> a chassis based on the '67 Ford Fairlane and a body sort of based on a
> production car but re-shaped to equalize the drag numbers. *By the
> end, only the hood and deck lid needed to come off of whatever car
> model they were claiming it was. *The whole point of the re-design was
> to make it an actual race car. *With the hacked up front end and rear
> wing they could have gotten more than enough down force if they wanted
> it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

They were NOT trying to create a "Race" car as you put it. What they
were, and say they were doing is to simplify things, make it less
expensive for smaller team by not having to have different cars for
different tracks, build a safer chasis, make inspections with the
templates easier, close loopholes in the rules, etc...The performance
of the car was totally secondary to all those factors, and it still
works worse than what the teams had built over the years of experience
with their chasis.
It was primarily to increase safety, lower costs, and level the
playing field. Anything else was a secondary consideration.
They were called "stock" cars for a reason. "Race on sunday, sell on
Monday" was what the sport was built on, they used the factories and
adververtising to let them do what they wanted. Pretty smart for a
bunch of inbred, knuckle-dragging, non-imported beer drinking, common
folks, huh?
Bill C

[Kurgan Gringioni]

On Feb 27, 8:07*am, Casey Kerrigan <ca...@caseykerrigan.com> wrote:

>
> > No, disquieting that Casey knows as much about NASCAR
> > as he does. It makes me wonder if he drinks Coors or
> > Budweiser when he's drinking alone.
>
> > Bob Schwartz
>
> Sorry Bob I don't drink.




Dumbass -


Nicotine? Caffeine? Smack? Meth? Cannibis? Blow?

I vote for meth. After alcohol it's gotta be the NASCAR fan drug of
choice.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

[Paul G.]

On Feb 27, 8:07 am, Casey Kerrigan <ca...@caseykerrigan.com> wrote:
> In article <kofxj.59199$Pv2.5...@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>, Bob
>
>
>
> Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> > > On Feb 26, 7:03 pm, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >> Casey Kerrigan wrote:
> > >>> Heck some
> > >>> drivers have actually developed burns on the bottom of their feet since
> > >>> they are sitting right over the top of the exhaust system.
> > >> Disquieting.
>
> > > Dumbass -
>
> > > And stoopid.
>
> > > Heat shields. Cheap and they work.
>
> > > thanks,
>
> > > K. Gringioni.
>
> > No, disquieting that Casey knows as much about NASCAR
> > as he does. It makes me wonder if he drinks Coors or
> > Budweiser when he's drinking alone.
>
> > Bob Schwartz
>
> Sorry Bob I don't drink. Also the NASCAR event in Northern CA is the
> largest single day sporting event in terms of spectators so I'm hardly
> alone. I just happen to enjoy a wide variety of sporting events. If you
> ever want bicycle racing to become more popular in the U.S. you need to
> have more people like me, who have an open mind towards a wide variety
> of sporting events.

I'm more of a doer than a watcher. I spend WAY more time riding my
bike than I spend watching other people ride bikes, and the endless
blather about the "wide variety of sporting events" bores me out of my
gourd. The cool thing about cycling is that anyone can afford a good
bike and can therefore participate in one of the many facets of the
sport- riding the trails, club rides, solo training rides, triathlons,
centuries, touring, and the various types of racing.

That's what makes the sport popular.

I'm over the hill now, but in my heyday I used to say "It's like
driving a Ferrari... and it's like BEING a Ferrari." It's not like
being a stock car because you have to be able to carve the apex of
right turns as well as left turns... and be able to race in the
rain. ;-))
-Paul

[Bob Schwartz]

Casey Kerrigan wrote:
> In article <kofxj.59199$Pv2.5834@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>, Bob
> Schwartz <bob.schwartz@REMOVEsbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>>> On Feb 26, 7:03 pm, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Casey Kerrigan wrote:
>>>>> Heck some
>>>>> drivers have actually developed burns on the bottom of their feet since
>>>>> they are sitting right over the top of the exhaust system.
>>>> Disquieting.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dumbass -
>>>
>>>
>>> And stoopid.
>>>
>>> Heat shields. Cheap and they work.
>>>
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>>
>>> K. Gringioni.
>> No, disquieting that Casey knows as much about NASCAR
>> as he does. It makes me wonder if he drinks Coors or
>> Budweiser when he's drinking alone.
>>
>> Bob Schwartz
> Sorry Bob I don't drink. Also the NASCAR event in Northern CA is the
> largest single day sporting event in terms of spectators so I'm hardly
> alone. I just happen to enjoy a wide variety of sporting events. If you
> ever want bicycle racing to become more popular in the U.S. you need to
> have more people like me, who have an open mind towards a wide variety
> of sporting events.

You got a confederate flag belt buckle?

The guys I know that go to the big events around here
(music festivals rather than sporting events) jabber a
lot about the number of hot chicks there. If we can
get hot chicks to go to bike races, the rest would
follow.

Sorry, I don't have an answer for getting hot chicks
to go to bike races. Lean, athletic guys that live in
their mom's basement apparently doesn't do it.

Bob Schwartz

[Bob Schwartz]

William Asher wrote:
> Bob Schwartz wrote:
>
>> Casey Kerrigan wrote:
>>> Heck some
>>> drivers have actually developed burns on the bottom of their feet since
>>> they are sitting right over the top of the exhaust system.
>> Disquieting.
>>
>
> What I find disquieting is that you all have created a thread that is
> duller for me than one on climate change must be for most of you. Good
> christ, you're not even really fighting with each other and your bot hasn't
> called anyone gay. I try to provide that entertainment for you when
> climate comes up. At the very least, somebody needs to cross-post this to
> rec.autos.sport.nascar to really up the combatitiveness quality.

You know its bad when Bill C has to take up heather's role
and post some porn links. Of course those weren't porn links,
but he's new at this.

Bob Schwartz

[William Asher]

Bob Schwartz wrote:

>
> You know its bad when Bill C has to take up heather's role
> and post some porn links. Of course those weren't porn links,
> but he's new at this.

She must be so proud right now.

Maybe it's time to tell the great old joke about why NASCAR drivers wear
the flame-retarded suits with their names on the back?

--
Bill Asher