indoor trainers

[Sandy]

I am not writing this as a recommendation, just observations, almost all
subjective.

In the past, for about 15 years, I used a Cycle Ops wind trainer, the
original one. When I decided to take up residence in the US, I figured the
freight was not worth it, and sold that unit. To its last days with me, I
never had any complaint about its functioning.

Now, in the US, in Maine, where we had record snowfall in December, and
overall for the winter, I just got a new trainer - Elite Chrono Primo Fluid
Trainer. I have not spent comparable time on it, obviously (Jobst - you OK
with that usage?), but I have some observations I thought to share with
those interested.

First, foremost, cardinal in interest is the low noise level. I had simply
never tried anything but a wind trainer over the years, and the Cycle Ops
was powerful as a noise generator. This fluid unit is really very quiet,
including at the higher speeds in a high gear. I did not have to change the
TV audio level, although I admit it became a bit muted by the Elite at
speed.

Second, and this is really hard to distinguish without instruments - I feel
I was loaded a lot more in every gear with the Cycle Ops. I didn't do a lot
of big ring rolling with the old one, and now I can make the move in 15
minutes. This is not a race, it's physical conditioning, and on a 59
year-old frame, carbon based. I think some of the effect is perceptual, in
that the loud fan noise always seemed to be a positive encouragement that I
was really pushing the pedals, where the lower noise level makes me more
reliant on the bike's computer to judge my output.

I only wish I had a cadence function in the computer I am using, as this is
the kind of environment where you can try to make adjustments to this factor
and train your muscles to adapt to a more effective personal range. BTW, I
am a lazy European, and we generally don't do marathon sessions on trainers,
having a more temperate climate than the northernmost state outside Alaska.
An hour is plenty.

If anyone knows how one may adjust (increase) the fluid loads, I'd like to
hear from you.
--
--
Sandy

--
Si les autres parties du monde ont des singes ; l'Europe a des Français.
Cela se compense.
[Arthur Schopenhauer]

[dustoyevsky@mac.com]

On Feb 28, 8:29*am, "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote:

> In the past, for about 15 years, I used a Cycle Ops wind trainer, the
> original one.

> First, foremost, cardinal in interest is the low noise level. *I had simply
> never tried anything but a wind trainer over the years, and the Cycle Ops
> was powerful as a noise generator.

Cyclops, just for the record and a possible heads-up for anyone
looking for a cheap/simple used (or maybe NOS?) trainer, made at
least one very quiet "wind" unit.

I heard it being used. It was outside, but the noise level was very
low. Low enough that the owner could use it among the fluid and mag
units in "bring your own" group sessions where wind trainer users were
segregated to "the other side", whatever that was.

I bought one, expecting similar, and returned it for the Mag unit (the
Fluids weren't debugged for certain at that time). In my second floor
apartment kitchen (hard surface), the noise was airplane hangar level.
I can only imagine what it sounded like below. --D-y

[rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com]

On Feb 28, 6:29 am, "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote:
>
> In the past, for about 15 years, I used a Cycle Ops wind trainer [...]
> I just got a new trainer - Elite Chrono Primo Fluid Trainer.

http://www.geocities.com/almost_fast/trainerpower/

> I only wish I had a cadence function in the computer I am using

Cadence is a red herring.

[Mark & Steven Bornfeld]

Sandy wrote:
> I am not writing this as a recommendation, just observations, almost all
> subjective.
>
> In the past, for about 15 years, I used a Cycle Ops wind trainer, the
> original one. When I decided to take up residence in the US, I figured the
> freight was not worth it, and sold that unit. To its last days with me, I
> never had any complaint about its functioning.
>
> Now, in the US, in Maine, where we had record snowfall in December, and
> overall for the winter, I just got a new trainer - Elite Chrono Primo Fluid
> Trainer. I have not spent comparable time on it, obviously (Jobst - you OK
> with that usage?), but I have some observations I thought to share with
> those interested.
>
> First, foremost, cardinal in interest is the low noise level. I had simply
> never tried anything but a wind trainer over the years, and the Cycle Ops
> was powerful as a noise generator. This fluid unit is really very quiet,
> including at the higher speeds in a high gear. I did not have to change the
> TV audio level, although I admit it became a bit muted by the Elite at
> speed.
>
> Second, and this is really hard to distinguish without instruments - I feel
> I was loaded a lot more in every gear with the Cycle Ops. I didn't do a lot
> of big ring rolling with the old one, and now I can make the move in 15
> minutes. This is not a race, it's physical conditioning, and on a 59
> year-old frame, carbon based. I think some of the effect is perceptual, in
> that the loud fan noise always seemed to be a positive encouragement that I
> was really pushing the pedals, where the lower noise level makes me more
> reliant on the bike's computer to judge my output.
>
> I only wish I had a cadence function in the computer I am using, as this is
> the kind of environment where you can try to make adjustments to this factor
> and train your muscles to adapt to a more effective personal range. BTW, I
> am a lazy European, and we generally don't do marathon sessions on trainers,
> having a more temperate climate than the northernmost state outside Alaska.
> An hour is plenty.
>
> If anyone knows how one may adjust (increase) the fluid loads, I'd like to
> hear from you.


Had no idea you're in the states. 25-30 years ago, I used the Racer
Mate, which was the first wind-load trainer I knew of. Yes, it was
noisy. After that, had a mag-turbo trainer that was much quieter--I
think it was put out by Nashbar or Performance.
After a few years though I started really hating training indoors.
With all that snow, are you doing any x-country skiing?

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

[Kurgan Gringioni]

On Feb 28, 6:29*am, "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote:
> I am not writing this as a recommendation, just observations, almost all
> subjective.
>
> In the past, for about 15 years, I used a Cycle Ops wind trainer,




Haven't you heard? The French are not interested in cycling.

I know more than you,

Tom Kunich

[Phil Holman]

"Sandy" <leurrre@free.fr> wrote in message
news:47c6c543$0$24083$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>I am not writing this as a recommendation, just observations, almost
>all subjective.
>
> In the past, for about 15 years, I used a Cycle Ops wind trainer, the
> original one. When I decided to take up residence in the US, I
> figured the freight was not worth it, and sold that unit. To its last
> days with me, I never had any complaint about its functioning.
>
> Now, in the US, in Maine, where we had record snowfall in December,
> and overall for the winter, I just got a new trainer - Elite Chrono
> Primo Fluid Trainer. I have not spent comparable time on it,
> obviously (Jobst - you OK with that usage?), but I have some
> observations I thought to share with those interested.
>
> First, foremost, cardinal in interest is the low noise level. I had
> simply never tried anything but a wind trainer over the years, and the
> Cycle Ops was powerful as a noise generator. This fluid unit is
> really very quiet, including at the higher speeds in a high gear. I
> did not have to change the TV audio level, although I admit it became
> a bit muted by the Elite at speed.
>
> Second, and this is really hard to distinguish without instruments - I
> feel I was loaded a lot more in every gear with the Cycle Ops. I
> didn't do a lot of big ring rolling with the old one, and now I can
> make the move in 15 minutes. This is not a race, it's physical
> conditioning, and on a 59 year-old frame, carbon based. I think some
> of the effect is perceptual, in that the loud fan noise always seemed
> to be a positive encouragement that I was really pushing the pedals,
> where the lower noise level makes me more reliant on the bike's
> computer to judge my output.
>
> I only wish I had a cadence function in the computer I am using, as
> this is the kind of environment where you can try to make adjustments
> to this factor and train your muscles to adapt to a more effective
> personal range. BTW, I am a lazy European, and we generally don't do
> marathon sessions on trainers, having a more temperate climate than
> the northernmost state outside Alaska. An hour is plenty.
>
> If anyone knows how one may adjust (increase) the fluid loads, I'd
> like to hear from you.
> --
> --
> Sandy

Is there something wrong with changing gear and having the rear wheel
turn faster at the same cadence? I have a fixed gear track bike on my
trainer so the one gear ratio I have gives a fairly accurate resistance
at 30 mph with a cadence of about 105rpm. At 20 mph it's about 70 rpm
which may be a bit on the low side but I normally do a moderate 1 hour
workout closer to 80rpm.

Phil H

[Sandy]

Dans le message de
news:2e4bd2ce-7113-42c4-8326-8c4b58dec893@q33g2000hsh.googlegroups.com,
rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com <rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com> a réfléchi, et
puis a déclaré :
> On Feb 28, 6:29 am, "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote:
>>
>> In the past, for about 15 years, I used a Cycle Ops wind trainer
>> [...] I just got a new trainer - Elite Chrono Primo Fluid Trainer.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/almost_fast/trainerpower/
>
>> I only wish I had a cadence function in the computer I am using
>
> Cadence is a red herring.

OK, I want a herringmeter.

From Peder Oxe, please.

[rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com]

On Feb 28, 10:06 am, "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote:
> Dans le message denews:2e4bd2ce-7113-42c4-8326-8c4b58dec893@q33g2000hsh.googlegroups.com,
> rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com <rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com> a réfléchi, et
> puis a déclaré :
>
> > On Feb 28, 6:29 am, "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote:
>
> >> In the past, for about 15 years, I used a Cycle Ops wind trainer
> >> [...] I just got a new trainer - Elite Chrono Primo Fluid Trainer.
>
> >http://www.geocities.com/almost_fast/trainerpower/
>
> >> I only wish I had a cadence function in the computer I am using
>
> > Cadence is a red herring.
>
> OK, I want a herringmeter.

Just for the halibut?

[Fred Fredburger]

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 28, 10:06 am, "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote:
>> Dans le message denews:2e4bd2ce-7113-42c4-8326-8c4b58dec893@q33g2000hsh.googlegroups.com,
>> rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com <rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com> a réfléchi, et
>> puis a déclaré :
>>
>>> On Feb 28, 6:29 am, "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote:
>>>> In the past, for about 15 years, I used a Cycle Ops wind trainer
>>>> [...] I just got a new trainer - Elite Chrono Primo Fluid Trainer.
>>> http://www.geocities.com/almost_fast/trainerpower/
>>>> I only wish I had a cadence function in the computer I am using
>>> Cadence is a red herring.
>> OK, I want a herringmeter.
>
> Just for the halibut?

For shame, Sir! You have besmirched the dignity of this august body with
your reckless punditry!

Harumph!

[Sandy]

Dans le message de news:gkExj.42610$R_5.16789@trnddc08,
Mark & Steven Bornfeld <bornfeldmung@dentaltwins.com> a réfléchi, et puis a
déclaré :

> Had no idea you're in the states.

So you had to rub it in....

> 25-30 years ago, I used the Racer
> Mate, which was the first wind-load trainer I knew of. Yes, it was
> noisy. After that, had a mag-turbo trainer that was much quieter--I
> think it was put out by Nashbar or Performance.
> After a few years though I started really hating training indoors.

I recall reading about Boardman's mania, and others who swear by the tapes
Cycle Ops puts out (and I think they're cool, but not possible). In France,
unless you seek out the mountains and snow, you see very little of it, so
year-round riding is very easy. In fact, it is sometimes difficult to find
that right moment to take the winter break.

> With all that snow, are you doing any x-country skiing?

Record December snowfall, and all the time I was burdened beyond spare time.

Then January, smaller crises, just relaxed. I really wanted to ski, but it
didn't happen.

February, more snow, rain, sun, melt, everything but good weather, and the
grass is coming through the remaining snow - even the 6 inches we got last
night. I did get out biking one day recently and decided that riding on
sand-laden roads is not much fun. If I should remain here longer, I will
have to straighten out the seasons. But I love to hate the trainer - as
does the new layer of Christmas fat.

--
Sandy

Ce n'est pas que j'ai peur de la mort.
Je veux seulement ne pas être là
quand elle arrivera.

[Howard Kveck]

In article <6726c6d6-32f5-46be-aea8-04cc6065e43b@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Kurgan Gringioni <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 28, 6:29*am, "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote:
> > I am not writing this as a recommendation, just observations, almost all
> > subjective.
> >
> > In the past, for about 15 years, I used a Cycle Ops wind trainer,
>
>
>
>
> Haven't you heard? The French are not interested in cycling.
>
> I know more than you,
>
> Tom Kunich

612 MILES IN JANUARY!!!!!!!!

--
tanx,
Howard

Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an icepick
That made his ears burn.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

[Sandy]

Dans le message de news:47c7188b$0$1110$4c368faf@roadrunner.com,
Sandy <leurrre@free.fr> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> Dans le message de news:gkExj.42610$R_5.16789@trnddc08,
> Mark & Steven Bornfeld <bornfeldmung@dentaltwins.com> a réfléchi, et
> puis a déclaré :
>
>> Had no idea you're in the states.
>
> So you had to rub it in....
>
My apologies - I seldom manage such incoherence. Tried a new beer at lunch.

Sandy

[ilanpsi@gmail.com]

On Feb 28, 9:24*pm, "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote:
> Dans le message denews:gkExj.42610$R_5.16789@trnddc08,
> Mark & Steven Bornfeld <bornfeldm...@dentaltwins.com> a réfléchi, et puis a
> déclaré :
>
> > Had no idea you're in the states.
>
> So you had to rub it in....
>
> > 25-30 years ago, I used the Racer
> > Mate, which was the first wind-load trainer I knew of. *Yes, it was
> > noisy. *After that, had a mag-turbo trainer that was much quieter--I
> > think it was put out by Nashbar or Performance.
> > After a few years though I started really hating training indoors.
>
> I recall reading about Boardman's mania, and others who swear by the tapes
> Cycle Ops puts out (and I think they're cool, but not possible). *In France,
> unless you seek out the mountains and snow, you see very little of it, so
> year-round riding is very easy. *In fact, it is sometimes difficult to find
> that right moment to take the winter break.
>
> > With all that snow, are you doing any x-country skiing?
>
> Record December snowfall, and all the time I was burdened beyond spare time.
>
> Then January, smaller crises, just relaxed. *I really wanted to ski, but it
> didn't happen.
>
> February, more snow, rain, sun, melt, everything but good weather, and the
> grass is coming through the remaining snow - even the 6 inches we got last
> night. *I did get out biking one day recently and decided that riding on
> sand-laden roads is not much fun. If I should remain here longer, I will
> have to straighten out the seasons. *But I love to hate the trainer - as
> does the new layer of Christmas fat.
>
> --
> Sandy
>
> Ce n'est pas que j'ai peur de la mort.
> Je veux seulement ne pas être là
> quand elle arrivera.

The French cycling magazines all unequivocally state that it is bad to
ride a trainer more than 45 minutes. Of course, they don't give a
reason, since it's totally false. I ride my trainer a lot, it beats
getting seriously annoyed in traffic, the longest this year was 2
hours.

I had a CycleOps fluid trainer, but I ended up not liking it that much
(though it was much quieter than the previous Blackburn magnetic
model). When the CycleOps died last year (no more resistance) I got a
Tacx Satori, which has been working well. It is easy to stow away and
the quick release features are good. I can get good resistance with
it, though the mag resistance takes getting used to as it is linear.
Problems with the Tacx are that the quick releases don't work
perfectly, they get out of adjustment when loosened (they should have
rubberized bolts), the Blackburn did that better, and the cable
control is not very convenient. Oh, one time, I happened to place the
cable next to my tire and it wore through the casing, leaving fine
black dust all over my wife's beautiful carpet.

-ilan

[Donald Munro]

Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:
>> Had no idea you're in the states.

Sandy wrote:
> So you had to rub it in....

Sounds like you exchanged your euros for $ before the exchange rate
changed.

[Andrew Price]

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:24:43 -0500, "Sandy" <leurrre@free.fr> wrote:

>> Had no idea you're in the states.
>
>So you had to rub it in....

Have you left France, Sandy, or is this just a temporary move?

[Steven Bornfeld]

Sandy wrote:
> Dans le message de news:47c7188b$0$1110$4c368faf@roadrunner.com,
> Sandy <leurrre@free.fr> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
>> Dans le message de news:gkExj.42610$R_5.16789@trnddc08,
>> Mark & Steven Bornfeld <bornfeldmung@dentaltwins.com> a réfléchi, et
>> puis a déclaré :
>>
>>> Had no idea you're in the states.
>> So you had to rub it in....
>>
> My apologies - I seldom manage such incoherence. Tried a new beer at lunch.
>
> Sandy
>
>

Seems perfectly coherent and cogent to me. Maybe I should worry?

Steve

[William Asher]

Phil Holman wrote:

>
> "Sandy" <leurrre@free.fr> wrote in message
> news:47c6c543$0$24083$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>I am not writing this as a recommendation, just observations, almost
>>all subjective.
>>
>> In the past, for about 15 years, I used a Cycle Ops wind trainer, the
>> original one. When I decided to take up residence in the US, I
>> figured the freight was not worth it, and sold that unit. To its last
>> days with me, I never had any complaint about its functioning.
>>
>> Now, in the US, in Maine, where we had record snowfall in December,
>> and overall for the winter, I just got a new trainer - Elite Chrono
>> Primo Fluid Trainer. I have not spent comparable time on it,
>> obviously (Jobst - you OK with that usage?), but I have some
>> observations I thought to share with those interested.
>>
>> First, foremost, cardinal in interest is the low noise level. I had
>> simply never tried anything but a wind trainer over the years, and the
>> Cycle Ops was powerful as a noise generator. This fluid unit is
>> really very quiet, including at the higher speeds in a high gear. I
>> did not have to change the TV audio level, although I admit it became
>> a bit muted by the Elite at speed.
>>
>> Second, and this is really hard to distinguish without instruments - I
>> feel I was loaded a lot more in every gear with the Cycle Ops. I
>> didn't do a lot of big ring rolling with the old one, and now I can
>> make the move in 15 minutes. This is not a race, it's physical
>> conditioning, and on a 59 year-old frame, carbon based. I think some
>> of the effect is perceptual, in that the loud fan noise always seemed
>> to be a positive encouragement that I was really pushing the pedals,
>> where the lower noise level makes me more reliant on the bike's
>> computer to judge my output.
>>
>> I only wish I had a cadence function in the computer I am using, as
>> this is the kind of environment where you can try to make adjustments
>> to this factor and train your muscles to adapt to a more effective
>> personal range. BTW, I am a lazy European, and we generally don't do
>> marathon sessions on trainers, having a more temperate climate than
>> the northernmost state outside Alaska. An hour is plenty.
>>
>> If anyone knows how one may adjust (increase) the fluid loads, I'd
>> like to hear from you.
>> --
>> --
>> Sandy
>
> Is there something wrong with changing gear and having the rear wheel
> turn faster at the same cadence? I have a fixed gear track bike on my
> trainer so the one gear ratio I have gives a fairly accurate resistance
> at 30 mph with a cadence of about 105rpm. At 20 mph it's about 70 rpm
> which may be a bit on the low side but I normally do a moderate 1 hour
> workout closer to 80rpm.

If you aren't leaving 30-foot long skidmarks from your indoor training
sessions, you're just jacking off.

Aside from that, what you need to do is get a remote-controlled constant-
temperature cryo-bath with a circulating pump. Jacket the fluid shell of
the fluid trainer and run the constant temperature fluid from the bath
through the jacket. By adjusting the temperature of the fluid surrounding
the fluid trainer (via the remote control on the bath), you will be able to
adjust the viscosity of the fluid in it, unless it is some bizarre non-
Newtonian fluid like elephant spooge, colder temperatures will mean more
viscosity and therefore more resistance. Heat the bath up and it will get
easier.

Decent remote controlled (or computer controlled) constant-temperature
recirculating baths can be had for around $10,000 (US), engineering a
cooling jacket for the trainer out of a big hunk of aluminum (titanium
would be better for anti-corrosion) might be another $10k, the Master's
Fattie brag coefficient for going to all that trouble when you could just
change gears and get the same effect, priceless.

There are some things money shouldn't buy, I'm here to point them out.

http://carcino.gen.nz/images/index.php/64270597/19c41ad0

--
Bill Asher

[Sandy]

Dans le message de news:Ea2dnZJUdIkj3VranZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@comcast.com,
Phil Holman <piholmanc@yourservice> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> "Sandy" <leurrre@free.fr> wrote in message
> news:47c6c543$0$24083$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> I am not writing this as a recommendation, just observations, almost
>> all subjective.
>>
>> In the past, for about 15 years, I used a Cycle Ops wind trainer, the
>> original one. When I decided to take up residence in the US, I
>> figured the freight was not worth it, and sold that unit. To its
>> last days with me, I never had any complaint about its functioning.
>>
>> Now, in the US, in Maine, where we had record snowfall in December,
>> and overall for the winter, I just got a new trainer - Elite Chrono
>> Primo Fluid Trainer. I have not spent comparable time on it,
>> obviously (Jobst - you OK with that usage?), but I have some
>> observations I thought to share with those interested.
>>
>> First, foremost, cardinal in interest is the low noise level. I had
>> simply never tried anything but a wind trainer over the years, and
>> the Cycle Ops was powerful as a noise generator. This fluid unit is
>> really very quiet, including at the higher speeds in a high gear. I
>> did not have to change the TV audio level, although I admit it became
>> a bit muted by the Elite at speed.
>>
>> Second, and this is really hard to distinguish without instruments -
>> I feel I was loaded a lot more in every gear with the Cycle Ops. I
>> didn't do a lot of big ring rolling with the old one, and now I can
>> make the move in 15 minutes. This is not a race, it's physical
>> conditioning, and on a 59 year-old frame, carbon based. I think some
>> of the effect is perceptual, in that the loud fan noise always seemed
>> to be a positive encouragement that I was really pushing the pedals,
>> where the lower noise level makes me more reliant on the bike's
>> computer to judge my output.
>>
>> I only wish I had a cadence function in the computer I am using, as
>> this is the kind of environment where you can try to make adjustments
>> to this factor and train your muscles to adapt to a more effective
>> personal range. BTW, I am a lazy European, and we generally don't do
>> marathon sessions on trainers, having a more temperate climate than
>> the northernmost state outside Alaska. An hour is plenty.
>>
>> If anyone knows how one may adjust (increase) the fluid loads, I'd
>> like to hear from you.
>> --
>> --
>> Sandy
>
> Is there something wrong with changing gear and having the rear wheel
> turn faster at the same cadence? I have a fixed gear track bike on my
> trainer so the one gear ratio I have gives a fairly accurate
> resistance at 30 mph with a cadence of about 105rpm. At 20 mph it's
> about 70 rpm which may be a bit on the low side but I normally do a
> moderate 1 hour workout closer to 80rpm.
>
> Phil H

Actually, what you think should happen with my trainer is exactly what
doesn't. At least not in the proportion that I used to get on the wind
trainer. The jumps are not as significant, and rolling along in 53x13 is
too easy by a long shot. But thanks for your comment, as it targets my
specific disappointment.
--
Bonne route !

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

[rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com]

On Feb 28, 4:28 pm, William Asher <gcn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Aside from that, what you need to do is get a remote-controlled constant-
> temperature cryo-bath with a circulating pump. Jacket the fluid shell of
> the fluid trainer and run the constant temperature fluid from the bath
> through the jacket. By adjusting the temperature of the fluid surrounding
> the fluid trainer (via the remote control on the bath), you will be able to
> adjust the viscosity of the fluid in it, unless it is some bizarre non-
> Newtonian fluid like elephant spooge, colder temperatures will mean more
> viscosity and therefore more resistance. Heat the bath up and it will get
> easier.
>
> Decent remote controlled (or computer controlled) constant-temperature
> recirculating baths can be had for around $10,000 (US), engineering a
> cooling jacket for the trainer out of a big hunk of aluminum (titanium
> would be better for anti-corrosion) might be another $10k, the Master's
> Fattie brag coefficient for going to all that trouble when you could just
> change gears and get the same effect, priceless.
>
> There are some things money shouldn't buy, I'm here to point them out.
>
> http://carcino.gen.nz/images/index.php/64270597/19c41ad0

Speaking of NZ, beer, and cooling:
http://www.asciimation.co.nz/beer/

[Howard Kveck]

In article <Xns9A52A79EA12FDFkldeltaC@130.133.1.4>, William Asher <gcnp58@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> There are some things money shouldn't buy, I'm here to point them out.
>
> http://carcino.gen.nz/images/index.php/64270597/19c41ad0

"New Sweatpants with an easy access fly" - A.K.A. loserhosen.

--
tanx,
Howard

Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an icepick
That made his ears burn.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

[William Asher]

wrote:

>
> Speaking of NZ, beer, and cooling:
> http://www.asciimation.co.nz/beer/
>

It is a lot more efficient to burn less of the propane and use the power
generated by the turbine to bleed a lot of that compressed propane into an
expander, where it will cool. I think this is how a propane-powered
refrigerator operates. He would get like triple bonus points from me if he
had figured out a totally sick way to get a hydrogen-powered refrigetor/jet
turbine to work since hydrogen has a negative J/T coefficient and heats on
expansion.

--
Bill Asher

[William Asher]

Fred Fredburger wrote:

> rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Feb 28, 10:06 am, "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote:
>>> Dans le message
>>> denews:2e4bd2ce-7113-42c4-8326-8c4b58dec893@q33g2000hsh.googlegroups.
>>> com, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com <rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com> a
>>> réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
>>>
>>>> On Feb 28, 6:29 am, "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote:
>>>>> In the past, for about 15 years, I used a Cycle Ops wind trainer
>>>>> [...] I just got a new trainer - Elite Chrono Primo Fluid Trainer.
>>>> http://www.geocities.com/almost_fast/trainerpower/
>>>>> I only wish I had a cadence function in the computer I am using
>>>> Cadence is a red herring.
>>> OK, I want a herringmeter.
>>
>> Just for the halibut?
>
> For shame, Sir! You have besmirched the dignity of this august body
> with your reckless punditry!
>
> Harumph!

Stop carping.

--
Bill Asher

[rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com]

Is that your sole complaint?

[Fred Fredburger]

William Asher wrote:
> Fred Fredburger wrote:
>
>> rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Feb 28, 10:06 am, "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote:
>>>> Dans le message
>>>> denews:2e4bd2ce-7113-42c4-8326-8c4b58dec893@q33g2000hsh.googlegroups.
>>>> com, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com <rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com> a
>>>> réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 28, 6:29 am, "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote:
>>>>>> In the past, for about 15 years, I used a Cycle Ops wind trainer
>>>>>> [...] I just got a new trainer - Elite Chrono Primo Fluid Trainer.
>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/almost_fast/trainerpower/
>>>>>> I only wish I had a cadence function in the computer I am using
>>>>> Cadence is a red herring.
>>>> OK, I want a herringmeter.
>>> Just for the halibut?
>> For shame, Sir! You have besmirched the dignity of this august body
>> with your reckless punditry!
>>
>> Harumph!
>
> Stop carping.
>

It's my schtick! Without it, I just flounder around with nothing to say.

[Phil Holman]

"Sandy" <leurrre@free.fr> wrote in message
news:47c768b6$0$1113$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Dans le message de news:Ea2dnZJUdIkj3VranZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@comcast.com,
> Phil Holman <piholmanc@yourservice> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
>> "Sandy" <leurrre@free.fr> wrote in message
>> news:47c6c543$0$24083$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> I am not writing this as a recommendation, just observations, almost
>>> all subjective.
>>>
>>> In the past, for about 15 years, I used a Cycle Ops wind trainer,
>>> the
>>> original one. When I decided to take up residence in the US, I
>>> figured the freight was not worth it, and sold that unit. To its
>>> last days with me, I never had any complaint about its functioning.
>>>
>>> Now, in the US, in Maine, where we had record snowfall in December,
>>> and overall for the winter, I just got a new trainer - Elite Chrono
>>> Primo Fluid Trainer. I have not spent comparable time on it,
>>> obviously (Jobst - you OK with that usage?), but I have some
>>> observations I thought to share with those interested.
>>>
>>> First, foremost, cardinal in interest is the low noise level. I had
>>> simply never tried anything but a wind trainer over the years, and
>>> the Cycle Ops was powerful as a noise generator. This fluid unit is
>>> really very quiet, including at the higher speeds in a high gear. I
>>> did not have to change the TV audio level, although I admit it
>>> became
>>> a bit muted by the Elite at speed.
>>>
>>> Second, and this is really hard to distinguish without instruments -
>>> I feel I was loaded a lot more in every gear with the Cycle Ops. I
>>> didn't do a lot of big ring rolling with the old one, and now I can
>>> make the move in 15 minutes. This is not a race, it's physical
>>> conditioning, and on a 59 year-old frame, carbon based. I think
>>> some
>>> of the effect is perceptual, in that the loud fan noise always
>>> seemed
>>> to be a positive encouragement that I was really pushing the pedals,
>>> where the lower noise level makes me more reliant on the bike's
>>> computer to judge my output.
>>>
>>> I only wish I had a cadence function in the computer I am using, as
>>> this is the kind of environment where you can try to make
>>> adjustments
>>> to this factor and train your muscles to adapt to a more effective
>>> personal range. BTW, I am a lazy European, and we generally don't
>>> do
>>> marathon sessions on trainers, having a more temperate climate than
>>> the northernmost state outside Alaska. An hour is plenty.
>>>
>>> If anyone knows how one may adjust (increase) the fluid loads, I'd
>>> like to hear from you.
>>> --
>>> --
>>> Sandy
>>
>> Is there something wrong with changing gear and having the rear wheel
>> turn faster at the same cadence? I have a fixed gear track bike on my
>> trainer so the one gear ratio I have gives a fairly accurate
>> resistance at 30 mph with a cadence of about 105rpm. At 20 mph it's
>> about 70 rpm which may be a bit on the low side but I normally do a
>> moderate 1 hour workout closer to 80rpm.
>>
>> Phil H
>
> Actually, what you think should happen with my trainer is exactly what
> doesn't. At least not in the proportion that I used to get on the
> wind trainer. The jumps are not as significant, and rolling along in
> 53x13 is too easy by a long shot. But thanks for your comment, as it
> targets my specific disappointment.
> --
> Bonne route !
>
> Sandy
> Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

Sounds like there is something wrong with that unit. You're in a 53x13
and its too easy!! You may want to contact the manufacturer and get the
spec. on the resistance.

Phil H

[Carl Sundquist]

"Sandy" <leurrre@free.fr> wrote in message
news:47c768b6$0$1113$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> Actually, what you think should happen with my trainer is exactly what
> doesn't. At least not in the proportion that I used to get on the wind
> trainer. The jumps are not as significant, and rolling along in 53x13 is
> too easy by a long shot. But thanks for your comment, as it targets my
> specific disappointment.

Does WADA know you're in Maine and not in France?

[Fred Fredburger]

Howard Kveck wrote:
> In article <6726c6d6-32f5-46be-aea8-04cc6065e43b@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> Kurgan Gringioni <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Feb 28, 6:29 am, "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote:
>>> I am not writing this as a recommendation, just observations, almost all
>>> subjective.
>>>
>>> In the past, for about 15 years, I used a Cycle Ops wind trainer,
>>
>>
>>
>> Haven't you heard? The French are not interested in cycling.
>>
>> I know more than you,
>>
>> Tom Kunich
>
> 612 MILES IN JANUARY!!!!!!!!
>

Which translates directly to IQ points.

[Fred Fredburger]

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
> Is that your sole complaint?

I smelt that one coming.

[Dan Gregory]

rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
> Is that your sole complaint?
another red herring which has made me flounder!

[Donald Munro]

Carl Sundquist wrote:
> Does WADA know you're in Maine and not in France?

Actually he's just telling everybody he's in Maine. He's really in New
Italy where there is very little cold snow.

[Howard Kveck]

In article <YI6dnXkSup0sDlranZ2dnUVZ_tfinZ2d@comcast.com>,
Fred Fredburger <Fred.Fredburger@Where.Are.The.Nachos> wrote:

> Howard Kveck wrote:
> > In article
> > <6726c6d6-32f5-46be-aea8-04cc6065e43b@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> > Kurgan Gringioni <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Feb 28, 6:29 am, "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote:
> >>> I am not writing this as a recommendation, just observations, almost all
> >>> subjective.
> >>>
> >>> In the past, for about 15 years, I used a Cycle Ops wind trainer,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Haven't you heard? The French are not interested in cycling.
> >>
> >> I know more than you,
> >>
> >> Tom Kunich
> >
> > 612 MILES IN JANUARY!!!!!!!!
> >
>
> Which translates directly to IQ points.

Ah, you just take the square root and viola!

Of course, there's always this:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/6c729bd717bc36f3

--
tanx,
Howard

Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an icepick
That made his ears burn.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

[Sandy]

Dans le message de news:47c7b196$0$26388$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster. com,
Donald Munro <fat-dumbass@hotmail.com> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> Carl Sundquist wrote:
>> Does WADA know you're in Maine and not in France?
>
> Actually he's just telling everybody he's in Maine. He's really in New
> Italy where there is very little cold snow.

I actually came out high in that velodrome corner, going faster than I went
in, and the outbound trajectory did not stick on my target of Mexico. There
is no lonely rider's wife to console here....

[Sandy]

Dans le message de news:47c7b636$0$26379$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster. com,
Donald Munro <fat-dumbass@hotmail.com> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:
>>> Had no idea you're in the states.
>
> Sandy wrote:
>> So you had to rub it in....
>
> Sounds like you exchanged your euros for $ before the exchange rate
> changed.

EFT with one day's delay. First time I was thankful a bank moved slowly.

[William Asher]

Dan Gregory wrote:

> rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
>> Is that your sole complaint?
> another red herring which has made me flounder!
>

For pete's hake, knock it off.

.... if looks could krill.

--
Bill Asher

[Sandy]

Dans le message de news:62rhueF2472rbU1@mid.individual.net,
Dan Gregory <dangregory@brakes.palaver.freeserve.co.uk> a réfléchi, et puis
a déclaré :
> rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
>> Is that your sole complaint?
> another red herring which has made me flounder!

You were perched, ready to swallow the bait.

[Fred Fredburger]

William Asher wrote:
> Dan Gregory wrote:
>
>> rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Is that your sole complaint?
>> another red herring which has made me flounder!
>>
>
> For pete's hake, knock it off.
>
> ... if looks could krill.
>

It seems like you're perched above this thread like a Sergeant Major,
waiting for someone to post so you can kelp the thread along.

[rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com]

On Feb 29, 3:36 pm, William Asher <gcn...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> For pete's hake, knock it off.
>
> ... if looks could krill.

That's a crappie attitude.

[William Asher]

Fred Fredburger wrote:

> William Asher wrote:
>> Dan Gregory wrote:
>>
>>> rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> Is that your sole complaint?
>>> another red herring which has made me flounder!
>>>
>>
>> For pete's hake, knock it off.
>>
>> ... if looks could krill.
>>
>
> It seems like you're perched above this thread like a Sergeant Major,
> waiting for someone to post so you can kelp the thread along.

I'm having a whale of a good time. Once these hit the bottom, we'll make
benthic.

(You gotta give that last one a little time.)

--
Bill Asher

[William Asher]

wrote:

> On Feb 29, 3:36 pm, William Asher <gcn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> For pete's hake, knock it off.
>>
>> ... if looks could krill.
>
> That's a crappie attitude.
>

You've probably got a bad eeling about this as well.

When an eel bites your thigh
and that makes you cry
That's a moray
When a fish starts to dine
And the blood flows like wine
That's a moray


--
Bill Asher

[Shirley Fredburger]

William Asher wrote:
> wrote:
>
>> On Feb 29, 3:36 pm, William Asher <gcn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> For pete's hake, knock it off.
>>>
>>> ... if looks could krill.
>> That's a crappie attitude.
>>
>
> You've probably got a bad eeling about this as well.
>
> When an eel bites your thigh
> and that makes you cry
> That's a moray
> When a fish starts to dine
> And the blood flows like wine
> That's a moray
>
>

This thread has officially jumped the shark.

[Shirley Fredburger]

William Asher wrote:
> Fred Fredburger wrote:
>
>> William Asher wrote:
>>> Dan Gregory wrote:
>>>
>>>> rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> Is that your sole complaint?
>>>> another red herring which has made me flounder!
>>>>
>>> For pete's hake, knock it off.
>>>
>>> ... if looks could krill.
>>>
>> It seems like you're perched above this thread like a Sergeant Major,
>> waiting for someone to post so you can kelp the thread along.
>
> I'm having a whale of a good time. Once these hit the bottom, we'll make
> benthic.
>
> (You gotta give that last one a little time.)
>

You are apparently better friends with Ben than I am.

[Howard Kveck]

In article <Meednf7hCbHdUVXanZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d@comcast.com>,
Shirley Fredburger <ShirleyFredburger@Where.Are.The.Nachos> wrote:

> William Asher wrote:
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Feb 29, 3:36 pm, William Asher <gcn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> For pete's hake, knock it off.
> >>>
> >>> ... if looks could krill.
> >> That's a crappie attitude.
> >>
> >
> > You've probably got a bad eeling about this as well.
> >
> > When an eel bites your thigh
> > and that makes you cry
> > That's a moray
> > When a fish starts to dine
> > And the blood flows like wine
> > That's a moray
> >
> >
>
> This thread has officially jumped the shark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0Xh9n2-Sp0

--
tanx,
Howard

Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an icepick
That made his ears burn.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

[Donald Munro]

Shirley Fredburger wrote:
> This thread has officially jumped the shark.

You fredburgers are breeding alarmingly.

[Ted van de Weteringe]

Donald Munro wrote:
> Shirley Fredburger wrote:
>> This thread has officially jumped the shark.
>
> You fredburgers are breeding alarmingly.

I guess you mean just the fact that they are, is alarming!
On the other hand (or is it?),
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/scpo/us-tfr.png

[Fred Fredburger]

Donald Munro wrote:
> Shirley Fredburger wrote:
>> This thread has officially jumped the shark.
>
> You fredburgers are breeding alarmingly.
>

Yes, that's pretty much the way we do it. You would have thought there
was a market for that sort of thing, but my porn career was surprisingly
short.

[Sandy]

Dans le message de news:a7ois39g2sn7nk0ovciv65hg90olqhquta@4ax.com,
Andrew Price <ajprice@free.fr> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:24:43 -0500, "Sandy" <leurrre@free.fr> wrote:
>
>>> Had no idea you're in the states.
>>
>> So you had to rub it in....
>
> Have you left France, Sandy, or is this just a temporary move?

Everything is always temporary, save death...
--
Sandy

Ce n'est pas que j'ai peur de la mort.
Je veux seulement ne pas être là
quand elle arrivera.

[Donald Munro]

Donald Munro wrote:
>> You fredburgers are breeding alarmingly.

Fred Fredburger wrote:
> Yes, that's pretty much the way we do it. You would have thought there was
> a market for that sort of thing, but my porn career was surprisingly
> short.

http://www.geekologie.com/2007/11/orgasmo_alarm_clock_what_it_so.php

[Fred Fredburger]

Donald Munro wrote:
> Donald Munro wrote:
>>> You fredburgers are breeding alarmingly.
>
> Fred Fredburger wrote:
>> Yes, that's pretty much the way we do it. You would have thought there was
>> a market for that sort of thing, but my porn career was surprisingly
>> short.
>
> http://www.geekologie.com/2007/11/orgasmo_alarm_clock_what_it_so.php
>

You had this link bookmarked before you used the word "alarmingly",
didn't you?

[Donald Munro]

Fred Fredburger wrote:
> You had this link bookmarked before you used the word "alarmingly", didn't
> you?

Of course not, I have the entire Internet memorized.