The Nashbar Story

[Ron George]

Feel free to drop in comments. Thanks.

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2008/02/story-of-bike-nashbar.html

[A Muzi]

> Ron George <ron.r.george@gmail.com> writes:
>> Feel free to drop in comments. Thanks.
>> http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2008/02/story-of-bike-nashbar.html

Donald Gillies wrote:
> Very amusing, but not very factual.
> http://www.bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/BikeWarehouse-80/
> Bike Warehouse was still called "Bike Warehouse" in 1980. And, it
> became Bike Nashbar a few years later, and my memory suggests the
> 1980-82 time period. And then, apparently, REI took a chunk out of
> Nashbar :-snip-

Arni Nashbar changed the name when 'Bike Warehouse' was found unsuitable
for trademark protection.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Rex Kerr]

Ron George wrote:
> Feel free to drop in comments. Thanks.
>
> http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2008/02/story-of-bike-nashbar.html

Interesting, though it seems to have a lot of speculation. Also,
Nashbar doesn't seem to be nearly as cheap as it was say 7 or so years
ago -- any 'speculation' on what that is?

--
Work and recreation are not often effected at the same time.
One using a bicycle in business makes an exception to the rule.
- Dr. Edgar H. Earl, Rochester. (~1892)

[Donald Gillies]

Ron George <ron.r.george@gmail.com> writes:

>Feel free to drop in comments. Thanks.

>http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2008/02/story-of-bike-nashbar.html

Very amusing, but not very factual.

http://www.bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/BikeWarehouse-80/

Bike Warehouse was still called "Bike Warehouse" in 1980. And, it
became Bike Nashbar a few years later, and my memory suggests the
1980-82 time period. And then, apparently, REI took a chunk out of
Nashbar :

http://ridemonkey.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-143757.html

To my way of thinking, recently we lost 2 great mail order shops :
Bike Nashbar and Bikeology/Supergo. Since the Nashbar paper
catalogues turned to Performance-like Icon-Garbage in 2004-5, I'm
guessing that Bike Nashbar was "fixed" by the Performance management
team in 2004 or 2005. Now, Nashbar is just a rabid mono-culture
9-speed and 10-speed parts shop, with 30 typs of clipless pedals and
clothing, and 40 brands of $50 tires, marketed to (i won't say the
word but you-know-who-you-are), just like Performance has always
been...

Turnabout is fair play! A private equity shop has now bought
Performance Bike, and so the quality (like that of UPS) is likely to
spiral even lower even faster :

http://multichannelmerchant.com/news/Performance-sold-07032007/

Who knows what's next for this "me too" octopus... In 15 years I have
found only once, enough useful merchandise on the performance website
to justify an order. Whereas I've ordered many (5+) times from
Nashbar. Sadly, I cannot find much difference between the two web
sites any more ...

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA, USA

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

"Ron George" <ron.r.george@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f36836d7-b860-4fc3-b8f9-a2dcd0ba9f28@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
| Feel free to drop in comments. Thanks.
|
| http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2008/02/story-of-bike-nashbar.html

"Common knowledge" surpasses most of the content there. What's really
missing is a commentary on why Performance chose to keep the Performance
name, instead of Supergo. Performance carries a lot of baggage; they're not
known for great service (in their retail stores), but they advertise as if
that's what people should expect. So their customers are often underwhelmed.
Supergo, on the other hand, exceeded expectations. Most customers were
attracted to them for one reason- cheap bike parts, sometimes some truly
great deals. And the typical Supergo seemed to be staffed better than the
Performance stores.

The inside story on the shuttering of Supergo would make for an interesting
read.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

[Tim McNamara]

In article
<f36836d7-b860-4fc3-b8f9-a2dcd0ba9f28@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
Ron George <ron.r.george@gmail.com> wrote:

> Feel free to drop in comments. Thanks.
>
> http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2008/02/story-of-bike-nashbar.html

Blogspam. Little content but lots of speculation, which is the norm on
blogs since actual journalism isn't a big part of blogucation.

[frkrygow@gmail.com]

On Feb 28, 10:39 pm, Ron George <ron.r.geo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Feel free to drop in comments. Thanks.
>
> http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2008/02/story-of-bike-nashbar.html

The guy had several facts twisted by the time he finished the third
paragraph, and the mistake rate didn't drop much after that.

The article seems to consist of a bunch of guesses, lots of mistaken
recollection, one link to another article, and a plea for help to get
more facts. The blogger claims to be a mechanical engineer. I hope
he's better at engineering than he is at journalism... um, blogging.

- Frank Krygowski

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <fq81m8$v2b$1@aioe.org>, Rex Kerr <rexkerr@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ron George wrote:
> > Feel free to drop in comments. Thanks.
> >
> > http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2008/02/story-of-bike-nashbar.html
>
> Interesting, though it seems to have a lot of speculation. Also,
> Nashbar doesn't seem to be nearly as cheap as it was say 7 or so years
> ago -- any 'speculation' on what that is?

Unrealistic expectations, combined with a general inflation of what is
considered minimum equipment. In other words, nobody wants a 7-speed
freewheel anymore.

In defense of Nashbar, I have to say that their aluminum cyclocross
frame routinely cycles down to a low-point price of just over $100,
usually at the same time as the matching carbon CX fork hits $120 or so.

I bought one last year, and it has two annoying but minor design flaws
(I think 135 mm spacing is wrong for this frame--I want to share wheels
with my road bike; there's a crap-catching chainstay bridge behind the
BB), and otherwise works very well.

On the other hand, their value-leader "Frame" road frame appears to have
disappeared, replaced by the pricier carbon-stayed road frame.

I tend to buy a lot of used components, but the cyclocross frame was
noteworthy because it was an inexpensive entry into the sport at a time
when there was a virtually nonexistent supply of used cyclocross
bicycles, owing to the general boom in the sport.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

[datakoll]

On Feb 29, 1:06*am, gill...@cs.ubc.ca (Donald Gillies) wrote:
> Ron George <ron.r.geo...@gmail.com> writes:
> >Feel free to drop in comments. Thanks.
> >http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2008/02/story-of-bike-nashbar.html
>
> Very amusing, but not very factual.
>
> *http://www.bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/BikeWarehouse-80/
>
> Bike Warehouse was still called "Bike Warehouse" in 1980. *And, it
> became Bike Nashbar a few years later, and my memory suggests the
> 1980-82 time period. *And then, apparently, REI took a chunk out of
> Nashbar :
>
> *http://ridemonkey.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-143757.html
>
> To my way of thinking, recently we lost 2 great mail order shops :
> Bike Nashbar and Bikeology/Supergo. *Since the Nashbar paper
> catalogues turned to Performance-like Icon-Garbage in 2004-5, I'm
> guessing that Bike Nashbar was "fixed" by the Performance management
> team in 2004 or 2005. *Now, Nashbar is just a rabid mono-culture
> 9-speed and 10-speed parts shop, with 30 typs of clipless pedals and
> clothing, and 40 brands of $50 tires, marketed to (i won't say the
> word but you-know-who-you-are), just like Performance has always
> been...
>
> Turnabout is fair play! *A private equity shop has now bought
> Performance Bike, and so the quality (like that of UPS) is likely to
> spiral even lower even faster :
>
> *http://multichannelmerchant.com/news/Performance-sold-07032007/
>
> Who knows what's next for this "me too" octopus... *In 15 years I have
> found only once, enough useful merchandise on the performance website
> to justify an order. *Whereas I've ordered many (5+) times from
> Nashbar. *Sadly, I cannot find much difference between the two web
> sites any more ...
>
> - Don Gillies
> San Diego, CA, USA

not looking. need to read thru the list holding what you want to buy

[Art Harris]

Donald Gillies wrote:
> To my way of thinking, recently we lost 2 great mail order shops :
> Bike Nashbar and Bikeology/Supergo. *Since the Nashbar paper
> catalogues turned to Performance-like Icon-Garbage in 2004-5, I'm
> guessing that Bike Nashbar was "fixed" by the Performance management
> team in 2004 or 2005. *

The Nashbar "paper catalogues" went glossy well before 2004-5. It was
more like the mid '80s.

It's common knowledge that Performance bought out both Nashbar and
Supergo a few years ago. But I still find better prices and more down
to earth products at Nashbar. Let's face it, cycling in general has
gotten more glossy and glitzy in the last ten years. But I've bought
plenty of $12 tires, etc. from Nashbar in recent years. And their
closeout prices on components are sometimes spectacular.

I also deal occasionally with some of the smaller, less-known bike
part dealers for the more obscure items I need.

Art Harris

[Guy Anderson, Sr.]

On 28 Feb 2008 22:06:43 -0800, gillies@cs.ubc.ca (Donald Gillies)
wrote:

>Ron George <ron.r.george@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>Feel free to drop in comments. Thanks.

>Bike Warehouse was still called "Bike Warehouse" in 1980. And, it
>became Bike Nashbar a few years later, and my memory suggests the
>1980-82 time period.

It was still Bike Warehouse when I mail ordered my 1985 Specialized
Stumpjumper which I just ride through the Merritt Island Wildlife
Refuge on Wednesday :-]

[datakoll]

On Feb 29, 8:34*am, Art Harris <n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Donald Gillies wrote:
> > To my way of thinking, recently we lost 2 great mail order shops :
> > Bike Nashbar and Bikeology/Supergo. *Since the Nashbar paper
> > catalogues turned to Performance-like Icon-Garbage in 2004-5, I'm
> > guessing that Bike Nashbar was "fixed" by the Performance management
> > team in 2004 or 2005. *
>
> The Nashbar "paper catalogues" went glossy well before 2004-5. It was
> more like the mid '80s.
>
> It's common knowledge that Performance bought out both Nashbar and
> Supergo a few years ago. But I still find better prices and more down
> to earth products at Nashbar. Let's face it, cycling in general has
> gotten more glossy and glitzy in the last ten years. But I've bought
> plenty of $12 tires, etc. from Nashbar in recent years. And their
> closeout prices on components are sometimes spectacular.
>
> I also deal occasionally with some of the smaller, less-known bike
> part dealers for the more obscure items I need.
>
> Art Harris

Sea Ray announced closing a Merritt Island plant of 350 employees.
Plant produced small boats, for small people? The large boat plant
stays open for now.
Expect some of the more obscure items to become less obscure.

[Jay Beattie]

On Feb 29, 5:34*am, Art Harris <n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Donald Gillies wrote:
> > To my way of thinking, recently we lost 2 great mail order shops :
> > Bike Nashbar and Bikeology/Supergo. *Since the Nashbar paper
> > catalogues turned to Performance-like Icon-Garbage in 2004-5, I'm
> > guessing that Bike Nashbar was "fixed" by the Performance management
> > team in 2004 or 2005. *
>
> The Nashbar "paper catalogues" went glossy well before 2004-5. It was
> more like the mid '80s.
>
> It's common knowledge that Performance bought out both Nashbar and
> Supergo a few years ago. But I still find better prices and more down
> to earth products at Nashbar. Let's face it, cycling in general has
> gotten more glossy and glitzy in the last ten years. But I've bought
> plenty of $12 tires, etc. from Nashbar in recent years. And their
> closeout prices on components are sometimes spectacular.

You can buy all the size 38 shoes and xxs tights in the world! There
are still some staples -- tires, tubes and components -- but the
company has really turned into a suplus outlet since the Performance
purchase. I liked it back in the old days along with Bikeology and
even Palo Alto Bikes, which was more in the vein of Colorado Cyclist
but never took off -- and was too tied in with Avocet (and all of its
rebranded crap Ofmega components in the 80's). I still remember
ordering over the phone with English speakers and no forty-step phone
maze or surly HAL automated system that hangs up when you start
yelling f*** you! -- Jay Beattie.

[Art Harris]

Jay Beattie wrote:
> You can buy all the size 38 shoes and xxs tights in the world! *There
> are still some staples -- tires, tubes and components -- but the
> company has really turned into a suplus outlet since the Performance
> purchase. *
>

I haven't noticed that except maybe for clearance items. Regular
shorts, jerseys, etc. seem to be available in all sizes.


> I liked it back in the old days along with Bikeology and
> even Palo Alto Bikes, which was more in the vein of Colorado Cyclist
> but never took off -- and was too tied in with Avocet

Ah yes, I'm still riding my 1984 Palo Alto frame! Now fiited out with
9-speed stuff.

Art Harris

[datakoll]

right.who buys 8 speeds and obscure stuff? like the never to be wheel
truing graphic CD at CD prices 2$5-35:
where's the market?

[A Muzi]

> "Ron George" <ron.r.george@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:f36836d7-b860-4fc3-b8f9-a2dcd0ba9f28@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> | Feel free to drop in comments. Thanks.
> | http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2008/02/story-of-bike-nashbar.html

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> "Common knowledge" surpasses most of the content there. What's really
> missing is a commentary on why Performance chose to keep the Performance
> name, instead of Supergo. Performance carries a lot of baggage; they're not
> known for great service (in their retail stores), but they advertise as if
> that's what people should expect. So their customers are often underwhelmed.
> Supergo, on the other hand, exceeded expectations. Most customers were
> attracted to them for one reason- cheap bike parts, sometimes some truly
> great deals. And the typical Supergo seemed to be staffed better than the
> Performance stores.
> The inside story on the shuttering of Supergo would make for an interesting
> read.

I don't think it's a secret. Alan worked both hard and well for many
years. It was just time to move on.
He was a successful attorney before Supergo and probably has quite a few
interests and options now.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> I don't think it's a secret. Alan worked both hard and well for many
> years. It was just time to move on.
> He was a successful attorney before Supergo and probably has quite a few
> interests and options now.
> --
> Andrew Muzi

Andrew: That I know. What I meant was, what's the story behind keeping the
Performance name and killing off Supergo? Was any thought ever given to the
idea that Supergo might bring more to the party?

We had an employee in the way-back days who moved to Southern California for
school. He went to work at one of the Supergo locations as a wrench, and
came back to us the next summer. The stories he told... I'll just tell one
of them for now. When bikes came in for a "tune up" they got a very
interesting treatment. Before anything was done to them, the entire bike was
dumped into something like those big acid baths they put bike frames into
for treatment prior to painting. No acid in them, of course, but rather a
cleaning solution. Yes. The entire bike went into it. Bearing & everything
got all of their greased washed out, but dang, the bikes came out looking
amazingly clean. Tires, grips, everything.

Now, I don't know if they were selective at all about this or not; one can't
believe they'd subject a nicer bike to such treatment. But can you imagine
any bike processed in that manner, and then actually have some miles put on
it?

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
news:13sgk5bdn4ao81d@corp.supernews.com...
>> "Ron George" <ron.r.george@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:f36836d7-b860-4fc3-b8f9-a2dcd0ba9f28@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>> | Feel free to drop in comments. Thanks.
>> | http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2008/02/story-of-bike-nashbar.html
>
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> "Common knowledge" surpasses most of the content there. What's really
>> missing is a commentary on why Performance chose to keep the Performance
>> name, instead of Supergo. Performance carries a lot of baggage; they're
>> not known for great service (in their retail stores), but they advertise
>> as if that's what people should expect. So their customers are often
>> underwhelmed. Supergo, on the other hand, exceeded expectations. Most
>> customers were attracted to them for one reason- cheap bike parts,
>> sometimes some truly great deals. And the typical Supergo seemed to be
>> staffed better than the Performance stores.
>> The inside story on the shuttering of Supergo would make for an
>> interesting read.
>
> I don't think it's a secret. Alan worked both hard and well for many
> years. It was just time to move on.
> He was a successful attorney before Supergo and probably has quite a few
> interests and options now.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[A Muzi]

> Ron George <ron.r.george@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Feel free to drop in comments. Thanks.
>> http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2008/02/story-of-bike-nashbar.html

Tim McNamara wrote:
> Blogspam. Little content but lots of speculation, which is the norm on
> blogs since actual journalism isn't a big part of blogucation.

You're braver than I.
I saw the url and passed
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Ron George]

On Feb 29, 2:36 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> In article
> <f36836d7-b860-4fc3-b8f9-a2dcd0ba9...@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
> Ron George <ron.r.geo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Feel free to drop in comments. Thanks.
>
> >http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2008/02/story-of-bike-nashbar.html
>
> Blogspam. Little content but lots of speculation, which is the norm on
> blogs since actual journalism isn't a big part of blogucation.

You're welcome not to look. :)

Ron
http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com

[datakoll]

On Feb 29, 2:48*pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > *Ron George <ron.r.geo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Feel free to drop in comments. Thanks.
> >>http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2008/02/story-of-bike-nashbar.html
> Tim McNamara wrote:
> > Blogspam. *Little content but lots of speculation, which is the norm on
> > blogs since actual journalism isn't a big part of blogucation.
>
> You're braver than I.
> I saw the url and passed
> --
> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

In the past, I asked "what mail order" and heard Performance. All well
off 60+ years retirees.

[A Muzi]

>>> "Ron George" <ron.r.george@gmail.com> wrote
>>> | Feel free to drop in comments. Thanks.
>>> | http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2008/02/story-of-bike-nashbar.html

>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>> "Common knowledge" surpasses most of the content there. What's really
>>> missing is a commentary on why Performance chose to keep the Performance
>>> name, instead of Supergo. Performance carries a lot of baggage; they're
>>> not known for great service (in their retail stores), but they advertise
>>> as if that's what people should expect. So their customers are often
>>> underwhelmed. Supergo, on the other hand, exceeded expectations. Most
>>> customers were attracted to them for one reason- cheap bike parts,
>>> sometimes some truly great deals. And the typical Supergo seemed to be
>>> staffed better than the Performance stores.
>>> The inside story on the shuttering of Supergo would make for an
>>> interesting read.

> "A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote
>> I don't think it's a secret. Alan worked both hard and well for many
>> years. It was just time to move on.
>> He was a successful attorney before Supergo and probably has quite a few
>> interests and options now.


Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> Andrew: That I know. What I meant was, what's the story behind keeping the
> Performance name and killing off Supergo? Was any thought ever given to the
> idea that Supergo might bring more to the party?
>
> We had an employee in the way-back days who moved to Southern California for
> school. He went to work at one of the Supergo locations as a wrench, and
> came back to us the next summer. The stories he told... I'll just tell one
> of them for now. When bikes came in for a "tune up" they got a very
> interesting treatment. Before anything was done to them, the entire bike was
> dumped into something like those big acid baths they put bike frames into
> for treatment prior to painting. No acid in them, of course, but rather a
> cleaning solution. Yes. The entire bike went into it. Bearing & everything
> got all of their greased washed out, but dang, the bikes came out looking
> amazingly clean. Tires, grips, everything.
>
> Now, I don't know if they were selective at all about this or not; one can't
> believe they'd subject a nicer bike to such treatment. But can you imagine
> any bike processed in that manner, and then actually have some miles put on
> it?


Great story!
Long ago, when the earth was young, I worked for a guy who used a steam
cleaner on 'tuneups'. Detergent and water in, grease and dirt off, much
like a graffiti remover. Bikes looked great and the shop stayed clean
but 60 days later everything was a rusty mess, bearings included.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Bruce Gilbert]

"Guy Anderson, Sr." <guyfanderson@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:ac0hs35dlsqcjhqk2antfkc3opafjg81bb@4ax.com...
> On 28 Feb 2008 22:06:43 -0800, gillies@cs.ubc.ca (Donald Gillies)
> wrote:
>
> >Ron George <ron.r.george@gmail.com> writes:
> >
> >>Feel free to drop in comments. Thanks.
>
> >Bike Warehouse was still called "Bike Warehouse" in 1980. And, it
> >became Bike Nashbar a few years later, and my memory suggests the
> >1980-82 time period.
>
> It was still Bike Warehouse when I mail ordered my 1985 Specialized
> Stumpjumper which I just ride through the Merritt Island Wildlife
> Refuge on Wednesday :-]

Is that going up SR3, or from Tropical Trail? I used to live on Merritt
Island...

Bruce

[still just me]

On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:28:55 -0600, A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
wrote:

>
>Great story!
>Long ago, when the earth was young, I worked for a guy who used a steam
>cleaner on 'tuneups'. Detergent and water in, grease and dirt off, much
>like a graffiti remover. Bikes looked great and the shop stayed clean
>but 60 days later everything was a rusty mess, bearings included.

I can appreciate the intent although not the technique: I don't know
how many grease and dirt encrusted kids bikes I worked on in my youth.
I recall that the first step on many after putting it in the stand was
to put paper on the floor and then use WD-40 to give the chain, gears,
and derailleurs a power bath. I recall putting a wide screw driver on
many a derailleur and freewheel as a peeler to remove the 1/8" think
grease ridge from each side. Next it was off to the outdoor "de-spray"
booth for a compressed air blow down and a wipe off.

[Ron George]

On Feb 29, 6:32 pm, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 28, 10:39 pm, Ron George <ron.r.geo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Feel free to drop in comments. Thanks.
>
> >http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2008/02/story-of-bike-nashbar.html
>
> The guy had several facts twisted by the time he finished the third
> paragraph, and the mistake rate didn't drop much after that.
>
> The article seems to consist of a bunch of guesses, lots of mistaken
> recollection, one link to another article, and a plea for help to get
> more facts. The blogger claims to be a mechanical engineer. I hope
> he's better at engineering than he is at journalism... um, blogging.
>
> - Frank Krygowski

Good one. Yes, writing on Nashbar wasn't easy but I thank you for all
your comments. Now we have more information and experiences from
people. Someone else might benefit from this discussion if you look at
the bright side.

Ron
http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com