Is $1,200 USD a fair price for a customized Electra Amsterdam Royal 8?

[Jay]

Welcome to the latest installment of 'Jay's all-weather Chicago commuter
bike'. Here is the quote I have received from Rapid Transit Cycleshop. Is
this a fair price? I don't think I am getting much credit for the stock
parts I am rejecting (in favor of my spec'ed parts).

I want to use the same pedals as I am currently using on my folder, so I can
wear the same bike shoes, whichever bike I decide to ride that day.

Is that Brooks saddle price a bit high?

I think I want to go wider tire in back, narrower tire in front, because of
the weight distribution.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850

Shimano M520 clipless pedals (comes with cleats) -- $55
Brooks B17 Black Champion Flyer w/steel rails and copper rivets -- $145
Pletscher 2 leg kickstand (silver or black?) -- $56.88
Ergon GP1 grips Men's large -- $42
Schwalbe Marathon Plus 700 x 35? 37? -- 2 x $45.87 = $91.74

Subtotal -- $1240.62
25% discount off swapped items (pedals, saddle, kickstand, grips and tires)
Subtotal after discount -- $1142.97
Tax -- $102.87
Total -- $1245.84

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thanks for any info - J.

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <CtednbImLLyrPlXanZ2dnUVZ_rWtnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Jay" <jbollyn@gmail.com> wrote:

> Welcome to the latest installment of 'Jay's all-weather Chicago commuter
> bike'. Here is the quote I have received from Rapid Transit Cycleshop. Is
> this a fair price? I don't think I am getting much credit for the stock
> parts I am rejecting (in favor of my spec'ed parts).
>
> I want to use the same pedals as I am currently using on my folder, so I can
> wear the same bike shoes, whichever bike I decide to ride that day.
>
> Is that Brooks saddle price a bit high?
>
> I think I want to go wider tire in back, narrower tire in front, because of
> the weight distribution.
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
>
> Shimano M520 clipless pedals (comes with cleats) -- $55
> Brooks B17 Black Champion Flyer w/steel rails and copper rivets -- $145
> Pletscher 2 leg kickstand (silver or black?) -- $56.88
> Ergon GP1 grips Men's large -- $42
> Schwalbe Marathon Plus 700 x 35? 37? -- 2 x $45.87 = $91.74
>
> Subtotal -- $1240.62
> 25% discount off swapped items (pedals, saddle, kickstand, grips and tires)
> Subtotal after discount -- $1142.97
> Tax -- $102.87
> Total -- $1245.84
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Thanks for any info - J.

Well, they're throwing in the labor of swapping pedals, seat, kickstand,
grips, and tires for free. That ought to figure into your equation.

The 25% discount is probably a reasonable maximum, considering how much
they will get for the OEM take-off parts.

I tend not to give most LBSen much stick for their pricing. If you are
concerned about the cost, well, more pricing information about the
Brooks B17 Champion Flyer can be found on the Web. It's more than Harris
charges, for example, but they stock and specialize in those saddles.

I guess what I'm saying is that they're not egregiously ripping you off.
Only you can decide if what they're offering is worth the price.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

[Andre Jute]

On Mar 1, 12:28*am, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Welcome to the latest installment of 'Jay's all-weather Chicago commuter
> bike'. Here is the quote I have received from Rapid Transit Cycleshop. Is
> this a fair price? I don't think I am getting much credit for the stock
> parts I am rejecting (in favor of my spec'ed parts).
>
> I want to use the same pedals as I am currently using on my folder, so I can
> wear the same bike shoes, whichever bike I decide to ride that day.
>
> Is that Brooks saddle price a bit high?
>
> I think I want to go wider tire in back, narrower tire in front, because of
> the weight distribution.
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
>
> Shimano M520 clipless pedals (comes with cleats) -- $55
> Brooks B17 Black Champion Flyer w/steel rails and copper rivets -- $145
> Pletscher 2 leg kickstand (silver or black?) -- $56.88
> Ergon GP1 grips Men's large -- $42
> Schwalbe Marathon Plus 700 x 35? 37? -- 2 x $45.87 = $91.74
>
> Subtotal -- $1240.62
> 25% discount off swapped items (pedals, saddle, kickstand, grips and tires)
> Subtotal after discount -- $1142.97
> Tax -- $102.87
> Total -- $1245.84
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Thanks for any info - J.

Around 1250 USD is around 850 Euro. For that in Dutch city bikes in
The Netherlands you get onto the bottom step of the elite class of
bikes. Though the parts of say a Gazelle will be most pleasing, that
price doesn't include a Brooks saddle or Ergon grips or special
pedals. Seems like you're getting good value for your money, given
only that the Electra Amsterdam is well made.

I have 700x37 Marathon Plus on my Gazelle and the very similar
Bontrager Satellite Elite Hardcase on my Trek. It's not a fat tyre in
any sense of the word; you inflate the hell out of them for hybrid
tyres, or I do anyway, so you get a pretty skinny rolling patch. I
wouldn't go for smaller at the front; I think that's just looking for
odd handling.

HTH.

Andre Jute
Little old intellectual on a bike -- please drive considerately

[landotter]

On Feb 29, 6:28 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Welcome to the latest installment of 'Jay's all-weather Chicago commuter
> bike'. Here is the quote I have received from Rapid Transit Cycleshop. Is
> this a fair price? I don't think I am getting much credit for the stock
> parts I am rejecting (in favor of my spec'ed parts).
>
> I want to use the same pedals as I am currently using on my folder, so I can
> wear the same bike shoes, whichever bike I decide to ride that day.
>
> Is that Brooks saddle price a bit high?
>
> I think I want to go wider tire in back, narrower tire in front, because of
> the weight distribution.
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
>
> Shimano M520 clipless pedals (comes with cleats) -- $55
> Brooks B17 Black Champion Flyer w/steel rails and copper rivets -- $145
> Pletscher 2 leg kickstand (silver or black?) -- $56.88
> Ergon GP1 grips Men's large -- $42
> Schwalbe Marathon Plus 700 x 35? 37? -- 2 x $45.87 = $91.74
>
> Subtotal -- $1240.62
> 25% discount off swapped items (pedals, saddle, kickstand, grips and tires)
> Subtotal after discount -- $1142.97
> Tax -- $102.87
> Total -- $1245.84
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Thanks for any info - J.

I purchased my most dear city bike at Rapid Transit and have nothing
but good things to say about them. Even if they're 25% more than the
competition (they're not), the service is worth it. I dare to say that
they'd get Sheldon approval. I remember rolling in one day for a pair
of fresh grips and as I'm browsing the selection, I glance behind me
and see a wrench crimping a cable end onto a bare wire on my bike--
without even asking--very neighborly. Ha!

They're the kind of shop that can build you what you need if you come
in with a rusty spoke that you think is particularly handsome.

Tell 'em hi from Max who used to work at the old Artful Dodger.

[Jay]

"Jay" <jbollyn@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:CtednbImLLyrPlXanZ2dnUVZ_rWtnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> Welcome to the latest installment of 'Jay's all-weather Chicago commuter
> bike'. Here is the quote I have received from Rapid Transit Cycleshop. Is
> this a fair price?
>
Thanks guys,

I pulled the trigger on this purchase. RTC says they will have the bike in ~
2 weeks. I know now, this is the bike I should have bought two years ago,
instead of my BF folder. But there was really no way to have known that at
the time. Thanks to the RBT bike experts, I have a much better idea, what a
year-round Chicago bike commuter needs. And I have experienced 1st hand,
daily maintenance of an exposed derailleur system. The cold, for me, is not
a limiting factor. It is the salt/sand/crud. And a folding bike, generally
speaking, is not intended for a 210lb rider, + 30lb cargo. I only found out
recently, BF is mostly selling folding toys to retired people, who want to
fold their bike, and then jet to a vacation in a national park. Not serious
year-round bike commuters in the northern plains, the heartland.

J.

[krash]

If you're into all weather comuting you should take a look at
velokit.com.

[Tom Sherman]

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> In article <CtednbImLLyrPlXanZ2dnUVZ_rWtnZ2d@comcast.com>,
> "Jay" <jbollyn@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Welcome to the latest installment of 'Jay's all-weather Chicago commuter
>> bike'. Here is the quote I have received from Rapid Transit Cycleshop. Is
>> this a fair price? I don't think I am getting much credit for the stock
>> parts I am rejecting (in favor of my spec'ed parts).
>>
>> I want to use the same pedals as I am currently using on my folder, so I can
>> wear the same bike shoes, whichever bike I decide to ride that day.
>>
>> Is that Brooks saddle price a bit high?
>>
>> I think I want to go wider tire in back, narrower tire in front, because of
>> the weight distribution.
>>
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>> Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
>>
>> Shimano M520 clipless pedals (comes with cleats) -- $55
>> Brooks B17 Black Champion Flyer w/steel rails and copper rivets -- $145
>> Pletscher 2 leg kickstand (silver or black?) -- $56.88
>> Ergon GP1 grips Men's large -- $42
>> Schwalbe Marathon Plus 700 x 35? 37? -- 2 x $45.87 = $91.74
>>
>> Subtotal -- $1240.62
>> 25% discount off swapped items (pedals, saddle, kickstand, grips and tires)
>> Subtotal after discount -- $1142.97
>> Tax -- $102.87
>> Total -- $1245.84
>>
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>> Thanks for any info - J.
>
> Well, they're throwing in the labor of swapping pedals, seat, kickstand,
> grips, and tires for free. That ought to figure into your equation.
>
> The 25% discount is probably a reasonable maximum, considering how much
> they will get for the OEM take-off parts.
>
> I tend not to give most LBSen much stick for their pricing. If you are
> concerned about the cost, well, more pricing information about the
> Brooks B17 Champion Flyer can be found on the Web. It's more than Harris
> charges, for example, but they stock and specialize in those saddles.
>
> I guess what I'm saying is that they're not egregiously ripping you off.
> Only you can decide if what they're offering is worth the price.
>
Agreed. I seriously doubt that Rapid Transit is gouging Jay.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

[bigjimpack@gmail.com]

You're being hosed dude!!! Bent over and reamed raw!! Here's what ir
should cost
Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
Shimano M520 pedals- $38.99 (Universal Cycles)
OR
Nashbar clipless ---- $17.99 (nashbar.com)
Brooks B17 Champion Flyer-- $99 (wallbike.com)
Or - Just as comfy less geeky
B-17 Standard ---$64
Ascent kickstand--- $5.95 (nashbar.com)
Schwalbe Marathon Plus-- $38.00 (unoversal cycles)

Total $1070 with specc'ed accessories (with no need for "discount" for
overpriced parts)

Total $1014 with comparable accessories
Install accessories yourself and save a bundle


On Feb 29, 8:30*pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <CtednbImLLyrPlXanZ2dnUVZ_rWtn...@comcast.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> *"Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Welcome to the latest installment of 'Jay's all-weather Chicago commuter
> > bike'. Here is the quote I have received from Rapid Transit Cycleshop. Is
> > this a fair price? I don't think I am getting much credit for the stock
> > parts I am rejecting (in favor of my spec'ed parts).
>
> > I want to use the same pedals as I am currently using on my folder, so I can
> > wear the same bike shoes, whichever bike I decide to ride that day.
>
> > Is that Brooks saddle price a bit high?
>
> > I think I want to go wider tire in back, narrower tire in front, because of
> > the weight distribution.
>
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> > Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
>
> > Shimano M520 clipless pedals (comes with cleats) -- $55
> > Brooks B17 Black Champion Flyer w/steel rails and copper rivets -- $145
> > Pletscher 2 leg kickstand (silver or black?) -- $56.88
> > Ergon GP1 grips Men's large -- $42
> > Schwalbe Marathon Plus 700 x 35? 37? -- 2 x $45.87 = $91.74
>
> > Subtotal -- $1240.62
> > 25% discount off swapped items (pedals, saddle, kickstand, grips and tires)
> > Subtotal after discount -- $1142.97
> > Tax -- $102.87
> > Total -- $1245.84
>
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> > Thanks for any info - J.
>
> Well, they're throwing in the labor of swapping pedals, seat, kickstand,
> grips, and tires for free. That ought to figure into your equation.
>
> The 25% discount is probably a reasonable maximum, considering how much
> they will get for the OEM take-off parts.
>
> I tend not to give most LBSen much stick for their pricing. If you are
> concerned about the cost, well, more pricing information about the
> Brooks B17 Champion Flyer can be found on the Web. It's more than Harris
> charges, for example, but they stock and specialize in those saddles.
>
> I guess what I'm saying is that they're not egregiously ripping you off.
> Only you can decide if what they're offering is worth the price.
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau rcous...@gmail.comhttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
> "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Lou Holtman]

Jay wrote:
> "Jay" <jbollyn@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:CtednbImLLyrPlXanZ2dnUVZ_rWtnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> Welcome to the latest installment of 'Jay's all-weather Chicago commuter
>> bike'. Here is the quote I have received from Rapid Transit Cycleshop. Is
>> this a fair price?
>>
> Thanks guys,
>
> I pulled the trigger on this purchase. RTC says they will have the bike in ~
> 2 weeks.


This is a memorable moment. ;-)


Lou

[Jay]

"Lou Holtman" <lholremovethis@planet.nl> wrote in message
news:47c9af40$0$25482$9a622dc7@news.kpnplanet.nl.. .
> Jay wrote:
>> "Jay" <jbollyn@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:CtednbImLLyrPlXanZ2dnUVZ_rWtnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>> Welcome to the latest installment of 'Jay's all-weather Chicago commuter
>>> bike'. Here is the quote I have received from Rapid Transit Cycleshop.
>>> Is this a fair price?
>>>
>> Thanks guys,
>>
>> I pulled the trigger on this purchase. RTC says they will have the bike
>> in ~ 2 weeks.
>
>
> This is a memorable moment. ;-)
>
>
> Lou
>
I certainly agree, Lou; RBT regulars might want to mark their digital
calendars, for 1-Mar-2008. Jay has begun his 'faux-Dutch-bike' era. And as
everyone knows by now, I tend to share pics of my cycling experience. But
not just crummy snapshot cell-phone pics. I fuss over my digital camera
pics, even though they sometimes appear to be orphan Internet dreg. I am
working on that. I certainly need proper studio lighting, already discussed.
And maybe an Electra studio backdrop? But I fear, I am no where near their
target customer, also already discussed. Electra seems to target Hollywood
customers, based on their online catalog.

I am still pining for Andre's authentic Dutch bike. If the USD ever
recovers, perhaps I will be able to afford one. But now, I feel I need to
settle for a CA bike. Much like years ago, wine lovers had to settle for CA
wine, because French wine was just too pricey.

J.

[Lou Holtman]

Jay wrote:
> "Lou Holtman" <lholremovethis@planet.nl> wrote in message
> news:47c9af40$0$25482$9a622dc7@news.kpnplanet.nl.. .
>> Jay wrote:
>>> "Jay" <jbollyn@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:CtednbImLLyrPlXanZ2dnUVZ_rWtnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>>> Welcome to the latest installment of 'Jay's all-weather Chicago commuter
>>>> bike'. Here is the quote I have received from Rapid Transit Cycleshop.
>>>> Is this a fair price?
>>>>
>>> Thanks guys,
>>>
>>> I pulled the trigger on this purchase. RTC says they will have the bike
>>> in ~ 2 weeks.
>>
>> This is a memorable moment. ;-)
>>
>>
>> Lou
>>
> I certainly agree, Lou; RBT regulars might want to mark their digital
> calendars, for 1-Mar-2008. Jay has begun his 'faux-Dutch-bike' era. And as
> everyone knows by now, I tend to share pics of my cycling experience. But
> not just crummy snapshot cell-phone pics. I fuss over my digital camera
> pics, even though they sometimes appear to be orphan Internet dreg. I am
> working on that. I certainly need proper studio lighting, already discussed.
> And maybe an Electra studio backdrop? But I fear, I am no where near their
> target customer, also already discussed. Electra seems to target Hollywood
> customers, based on their online catalog.
>
> I am still pining for Andre's authentic Dutch bike. If the USD ever
> recovers, perhaps I will be able to afford one. But now, I feel I need to
> settle for a CA bike. Much like years ago, wine lovers had to settle for CA
> wine, because French wine was just too pricey.
>
> J.
>
>


I come over in September. Shall I bring one with me?
Dutch bikes are so boring over here. ;-)

Lou

[Jay]

"Lou Holtman" <lholremovethis@planet.nl> wrote in message
news:47c9bbc9$0$13746$9a622dc7@news.kpnplanet.nl.. .
>
> I come over in September. Shall I bring one with me?
> Dutch bikes are so boring over here. ;-)
>
> Lou
>
My friend LO says Dutch bikes are considered appliances. That is what I
want. A boring thing that gets me to/from work, and the grocery store,
whatever. I do not enjoy bike maintenance.

I am building a stable of bikes. I may never buy another car. Long, boring
story.

J.

[A Muzi]

> "Lou Holtman" <lholremovethis@planet.nl> wrote
>> I come over in September. Shall I bring one with me?
>> Dutch bikes are so boring over here. ;-)

Jay wrote:
> My friend LO says Dutch bikes are considered appliances. That is what I
> want. A boring thing that gets me to/from work, and the grocery store,
> whatever. I do not enjoy bike maintenance.
> I am building a stable of bikes. I may never buy another car. Long, boring
> story.

If you win the lotto, click here:
http://www.paganiautomobili.it/english.htm
Cars need not be boring (most of everything is merely average!)
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[landotter]

On Mar 1, 2:36 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Lou Holtman" <lholremovet...@planet.nl> wrote in message
>
> news:47c9bbc9$0$13746$9a622dc7@news.kpnplanet.nl.. .
>
> > I come over in September. Shall I bring one with me?
> > Dutch bikes are so boring over here. ;-)
>
> > Lou
>
> My friend LO says Dutch bikes are considered appliances. That is what I
> want. A boring thing that gets me to/from work, and the grocery store,
> whatever. I do not enjoy bike maintenance.

The Nexus bike I got at RT was shaped more like a Breezer Villager,
but if you like the geometry of the Electra, that's all that matters.
It should prove to be just as reliable as any Dutch bike. The folks at
RT are legendary for setting a bike up correctly. $1200 is a bit of a
sticker shock to me for a city bike, but I think I paid 800 for mine
nearly ten years ago, so it's probably just the quadruple digits. The
Schwalbe tires seem like overkill to me, but if it eases your mind. I
found that any hybrid tire with a thick tread was virtually flat proof
on Chicago streets.

Now you need some of those really dorky Dutch throw over bags in plaid
with the handle in the middle.

[Jay]

"A Muzi" <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
news:13sjg2hte7hdt7f@corp.supernews.com...
>
> If you win the lotto, click here:
> http://www.paganiautomobili.it/english.htm
> Cars need not be boring (most of everything is merely average!)
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
The problem with IT cars has always been reliability. Only buy one if you
can afford to have it in the shop, for who knows how long, at really
inconvenient times.

I agree, chics really dig 'em. But they are not paying the repair cost.

J.

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 14:44:51 -0600, A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
wrote:

>> "Lou Holtman" <lholremovethis@planet.nl> wrote
>>> I come over in September. Shall I bring one with me?
>>> Dutch bikes are so boring over here. ;-)
>
>Jay wrote:
>> My friend LO says Dutch bikes are considered appliances. That is what I
>> want. A boring thing that gets me to/from work, and the grocery store,
>> whatever. I do not enjoy bike maintenance.
>> I am building a stable of bikes. I may never buy another car. Long, boring
>> story.
>
>If you win the lotto, click here:
>http://www.paganiautomobili.it/english.htm
>Cars need not be boring (most of everything is merely average!)

Dear Andrew,

The Bunny II (probably a Widgeon Seven) passes an obsolete technology,
Paris, 1912:
http://i28.tinypic.com/amdqc.jpg

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

[Jay]

On Mar 1, 3:14*pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 1, 2:36 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "Lou Holtman" <lholremovet...@planet.nl> wrote in message
>
> >news:47c9bbc9$0$13746$9a622dc7@news.kpnplanet.nl.. .
>
> > > I come over in September. Shall I bring one with me?
> > > Dutch bikes are so boring over here. ;-)
>
> > > Lou
>
> > My friend LO says Dutch bikes are considered appliances. That is what I
> > want. A boring thing that gets me to/from work, and the grocery store,
> > whatever. I do not enjoy bike maintenance.
>
> The Nexus bike I got at RT was shaped more like a Breezer Villager,
> but if you like the geometry of the Electra, that's all that matters.
> It should prove to be just as reliable as any Dutch bike. The folks at
> RT are legendary for setting a bike up correctly. $1200 is a bit of a
> sticker shock to me for a city bike, but I think I paid 800 for mine
> nearly ten years ago, so it's probably just the quadruple digits. The
> Schwalbe tires seem like overkill to me, but if it eases your mind. I
> found that any hybrid tire with a thick tread was virtually flat proof
> on Chicago streets.
>
> I caught my first flat on SM+ last week, rear tire. I just put on a spare tire and tube. I do intend to look closely at the old tire and tube, to see exactly what caused the flat. I am a bit unhappy about the flat, but I guess expecting to be 100% flat-free, commuting on Chicago streets, is probably an unrealistic goal.

J.

[alhedges@gmail.com]

On Mar 2, 6:30 pm, bigjimp...@gmail.com wrote:
> You're being hosed dude!!! Bent over and reamed raw!! Here's what ir
> should cost

No, he's getting a decent deal for his requested equipment.
> Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
> Shimano M520 pedals- $38.99 (Universal Cycles)
He can save $15 at UC
> OR
> Nashbar clipless ---- $17.99 (nashbar.com)
Not what he wanted, though.
> Brooks B17 Champion Flyer-- $99 (wallbike.com)
That's not the model he wants, though. The B17 with the rivets costs
$132 at willbike - save $13
> Or - Just as comfy less geeky
> B-17 Standard ---$64
> Ascent kickstand--- $5.95 (nashbar.com)
He wants the Pletscher two leg kickstand.
> Schwalbe Marathon Plus-- $38.00 (unoversal cycles)
1. He needs *two* tires.
2. UC only has the 700x28; he needs the 700x35 or x37. Also, UC is
out of the 700x28.
>
> Total $1070 with specc'ed accessories (with no need for "discount" for
> overpriced parts)
You left out the ergon grips. And the tax. And his spec'd equipment.
He only saves $28
>
> Total $1014 with comparable accessories
This is a good point, especially going with a cheaper saddle and
kickstand.
> Install accessories yourself and save a bundle

[Andre Jute]

On Mar 2, 11:30*pm, bigjimp...@gmail.com wrote:
> You're being hosed dude!!! Bent over and reamed raw!! *Here's what ir
> should cost
> Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
> Shimano M520 pedals- *$38.99 (Universal Cycles)
> * OR
> Nashbar clipless ---- $17.99 (nashbar.com)

What's the point of buying a bike like this and fitting generic-****
components?

> Brooks B17 Champion Flyer-- $99 (wallbike.com)

But that's not what Jay wants.

> Or - Just as comfy less geeky
> B-17 Standard *---$64
> Ascent kickstand--- $5.95 *(nashbar.com)

There's probably a better kickstand than that on the bike already. Jay
wants a particular kickstand for a reason.

> Schwalbe Marathon Plus-- $38.00 (unoversal cycles)

He needs two. You've calculated for one.

> Total $1070 with specc'ed accessories (with no need for "discount" for
> overpriced parts)
>
> Total $1014 with comparable accessories

You've left off the Ergon grips. And you haven't put your mind in
gear, pal. How many times is it now that Jay will have to pay carriage
charges? And where's the sales tax?

> Install accessories yourself and save a bundle

The OP told us he doesn't like messing around with his bike. A store
that comes highly recommended by other posters, and even another
dealer, will give him free fitting of the custom parts -- and you want
him to give it up to save perhaps a handful of dollars?

Calculate again, Big Jim, after you read the threads and discover
what was required in the first instance.

Andre Jute
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20%26%20CYCLING.html

> On Feb 29, 8:30*pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <CtednbImLLyrPlXanZ2dnUVZ_rWtn...@comcast.com>,
>
> > *"Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Welcome to the latest installment of 'Jay's all-weather Chicago commuter
> > > bike'. Here is the quote I have received from Rapid Transit Cycleshop. Is
> > > this a fair price? I don't think I am getting much credit for the stock
> > > parts I am rejecting (in favor of my spec'ed parts).
>
> > > I want to use the same pedals as I am currently using on my folder, so I can
> > > wear the same bike shoes, whichever bike I decide to ride that day.
>
> > > Is that Brooks saddle price a bit high?
>
> > > I think I want to go wider tire in back, narrower tire in front, because of
> > > the weight distribution.
>
> > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> > > Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
>
> > > Shimano M520 clipless pedals (comes with cleats) -- $55
> > > Brooks B17 Black Champion Flyer w/steel rails and copper rivets -- $145
> > > Pletscher 2 leg kickstand (silver or black?) -- $56.88
> > > Ergon GP1 grips Men's large -- $42
> > > Schwalbe Marathon Plus 700 x 35? 37? -- 2 x $45.87 = $91.74
>
> > > Subtotal -- $1240.62
> > > 25% discount off swapped items (pedals, saddle, kickstand, grips and tires)
> > > Subtotal after discount -- $1142.97
> > > Tax -- $102.87
> > > Total -- $1245.84
>
> > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> > > Thanks for any info - J.
>
> > Well, they're throwing in the labor of swapping pedals, seat, kickstand,
> > grips, and tires for free. That ought to figure into your equation.
>
> > The 25% discount is probably a reasonable maximum, considering how much
> > they will get for the OEM take-off parts.
>
> > I tend not to give most LBSen much stick for their pricing. If you are
> > concerned about the cost, well, more pricing information about the
> > Brooks B17 Champion Flyer can be found on the Web. It's more than Harris
> > charges, for example, but they stock and specialize in those saddles.
>
> > I guess what I'm saying is that they're not egregiously ripping you off.
> > Only you can decide if what they're offering is worth the price.
>
> > --
> > Ryan Cousineau rcous...@gmail.comhttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> > "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
> > "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -

[A Muzi]

alhedges@gmail.com wrote:
> On Mar 2, 6:30 pm, bigjimp...@gmail.com wrote:
>> You're being hosed dude!!! Bent over and reamed raw!! Here's what ir
>> should cost
>
> No, he's getting a decent deal for his requested equipment.
>> Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
>> Shimano M520 pedals- $38.99 (Universal Cycles)
> He can save $15 at UC
>> OR
>> Nashbar clipless ---- $17.99 (nashbar.com)
> Not what he wanted, though.
>> Brooks B17 Champion Flyer-- $99 (wallbike.com)
> That's not the model he wants, though. The B17 with the rivets costs
> $132 at willbike - save $13
>> Or - Just as comfy less geeky
>> B-17 Standard ---$64
>> Ascent kickstand--- $5.95 (nashbar.com)
> He wants the Pletscher two leg kickstand.
>> Schwalbe Marathon Plus-- $38.00 (unoversal cycles)
> 1. He needs *two* tires.
> 2. UC only has the 700x28; he needs the 700x35 or x37. Also, UC is
> out of the 700x28.
>> Total $1070 with specc'ed accessories (with no need for "discount" for
>> overpriced parts)
> You left out the ergon grips. And the tax. And his spec'd equipment.
> He only saves $28
>> Total $1014 with comparable accessories
> This is a good point, especially going with a cheaper saddle and
> kickstand.
>> Install accessories yourself and save a bundle

Right.
Jay is getting good value, as a complete package, from a good shop with
personalized service. A small putative savings (~2%?? delivery charges?)
versus both one-transaction convenience and better than average service
seems quite reasonable to me.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[bigjimpack@gmail.com]

That was a quick example in three minutes I saved him $2-300 . With
more searching he might have saved more. None of those items are shop
only installs and comparable items are easy to find. Who wants a two
legged kickstand? Nashbar pedals are as good as any and there are
other tires that perform as well for less- vittoria randonneurs for
$29 at REI . Nashbar ergo gel grips are $6 and just as good as ergon.


On Mar 3, 3:52*pm, alhed...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Mar 2, 6:30 pm, bigjimp...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > You're being hosed dude!!! Bent over and reamed raw!! *Here's what ir
> > should cost
>
> No, he's getting a decent deal for his requested equipment.> Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
> > Shimano M520 pedals- *$38.99 (Universal Cycles)
>
> He can save $15 at UC> * OR
> > Nashbar clipless ---- $17.99 (nashbar.com)
>
> Not what he wanted, though.> Brooks B17 Champion Flyer-- $99 (wallbike.com)
>
> That's not the model he wants, though. The B17 with the rivets costs
> $132 at willbike - save $13> Or - Just as comfy less geeky
> > B-17 Standard *---$64
> > Ascent kickstand--- $5.95 *(nashbar.com)
>
> He wants the Pletscher two leg kickstand.> Schwalbe Marathon Plus-- $38.00 (unoversal cycles)
>
> 1. He needs *two* tires.
> 2. UC only has the 700x28; he needs the 700x35 or x37. *Also, UC is
> out of the 700x28.
>
> > Total $1070 with specc'ed accessories (with no need for "discount" for
> > overpriced parts)
>
> You left out the ergon grips. *And the tax. And his spec'd equipment.
> He only saves $28
>
> > Total $1014 with comparable accessories
>
> This is a good point, especially going with a cheaper saddle and
> kickstand.
>
>
>
> > Install accessories yourself and save a bundle- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Harry Brogan]

On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 12:52:21 -0800 (PST), alhedges@gmail.com wrote:

>On Mar 2, 6:30 pm, bigjimp...@gmail.com wrote:
>> You're being hosed dude!!! Bent over and reamed raw!! Here's what ir
>> should cost
>
>No, he's getting a decent deal for his requested equipment.
>> Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
>> Shimano M520 pedals- $38.99 (Universal Cycles)
>He can save $15 at UC
>> OR
>> Nashbar clipless ---- $17.99 (nashbar.com)
>Not what he wanted, though.
>> Brooks B17 Champion Flyer-- $99 (wallbike.com)
>That's not the model he wants, though. The B17 with the rivets costs
>$132 at willbike - save $13
>> Or - Just as comfy less geeky
>> B-17 Standard ---$64
>> Ascent kickstand--- $5.95 (nashbar.com)
>He wants the Pletscher two leg kickstand.
>> Schwalbe Marathon Plus-- $38.00 (unoversal cycles)
>1. He needs *two* tires.
>2. UC only has the 700x28; he needs the 700x35 or x37. Also, UC is
>out of the 700x28.
>>
>> Total $1070 with specc'ed accessories (with no need for "discount" for
>> overpriced parts)
>You left out the ergon grips. And the tax. And his spec'd equipment.
>He only saves $28
>>
>> Total $1014 with comparable accessories
>This is a good point, especially going with a cheaper saddle and
>kickstand.
>> Install accessories yourself and save a bundle


IF a person is happy with the deal that he has made then how can he be
getting hosed????? As long as THEY are happy with it then it's not
possible.
__o | Every time I see an adult on a bicycle....
_`\(,_ | I no longer despair for the human race.
(_)/ (_) | ---H.G. Wells---

[Tom Sherman]

"bigjimpack@gmail.com" ??? wrote:
> That was a quick example in three minutes I saved him $2-300 . With
> more searching he might have saved more. None of those items are shop
> only installs and comparable items are easy to find.

Take Jay's hourly wage times what it would take him to do the parts
swaps himself, and the shop rate looks pretty good, unless Jay is an
experienced mechanic with all the tools readily at hand. There is also
the time it would take Jay to hawk the unused parts on Craigslist, eBay
et al.

> Who wants a two legged kickstand?

A serious commuter.

> Nashbar pedals are as good as any and there are
> other tires that perform as well for less- vittoria randonneurs for
> $29 at REI . Nashbar ergo gel grips are $6 and just as good as ergon.
>
I have found that off-brand "SPD compatible" pedals are often found to
be lacking in the compatibility department.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

[bigjimpack@gmail.com]

He asked so he wasnt sure. For that type of fred mobile it's wayyyyyy
too much.

On Mar 3, 4:52*pm, Harry Brogan
<hbroga...@ABSOLUTELYNOSPAM.YAHOOdotCOM> wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 12:52:21 -0800 (PST), alhed...@gmail.com wrote:
> >On Mar 2, 6:30 pm, bigjimp...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> You're being hosed dude!!! Bent over and reamed raw!! *Here's what ir
> >> should cost
>
> >No, he's getting a decent deal for his requested equipment.
> >> Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
> >> Shimano M520 pedals- *$38.99 (Universal Cycles)
> >He can save $15 at UC
> >> * OR
> >> Nashbar clipless ---- $17.99 (nashbar.com)
> >Not what he wanted, though.
> >> Brooks B17 Champion Flyer-- $99 (wallbike.com)
> >That's not the model he wants, though. The B17 with the rivets costs
> >$132 at willbike - save $13
> >> Or - Just as comfy less geeky
> >> B-17 Standard *---$64
> >> Ascent kickstand--- $5.95 *(nashbar.com)
> >He wants the Pletscher two leg kickstand.
> >> Schwalbe Marathon Plus-- $38.00 (unoversal cycles)
> >1. He needs *two* tires.
> >2. UC only has the 700x28; he needs the 700x35 or x37. *Also, UC is
> >out of the 700x28.
>
> >> Total $1070 with specc'ed accessories (with no need for "discount" for
> >> overpriced parts)
> >You left out the ergon grips. *And the tax. And his spec'd equipment.
> >He only saves $28
>
> >> Total $1014 with comparable accessories
> >This is a good point, especially going with a cheaper saddle and
> >kickstand.
> >> Install accessories yourself and save a bundle
>
> IF a person is happy with the deal that he has made then how can he be
> getting hosed????? * *As long as THEY are happy with it then it's not
> possible.
> * *__o * | Every time I see an adult on a bicycle....
> *_`\(,_ *| I no longer despair for the human race.
> (_)/ (_) | * * * * * * * * * * * * ---H.G. Wells---- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[bigjimpack@gmail.com]

He could order from two sources and pay shipping but no sales tax. On
a fred bike like that the components dont matter. Still save a couple
hundred $$$. There is no need to pay $50 for SPD type pedals as
generics are as good and very cheap. He asked if it was a deal. I
say no. Some may say yes but they are usually those who pay more at a
shop for items that can be had much cheaper on line


On Mar 3, 6:21*pm, Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mar 2, 11:30*pm, bigjimp...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > You're being hosed dude!!! Bent over and reamed raw!! *Here's what ir
> > should cost
> > Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
> > Shimano M520 pedals- *$38.99 (Universal Cycles)
> > * OR
> > Nashbar clipless ---- $17.99 (nashbar.com)
>
> What's the point of buying a bike like this and fitting generic-****
> components?
>
> > Brooks B17 Champion Flyer-- $99 (wallbike.com)
>
> But that's not what Jay wants.
>
> > Or - Just as comfy less geeky
> > B-17 Standard *---$64
> > Ascent kickstand--- $5.95 *(nashbar.com)
>
> There's probably a better kickstand than that on the bike already. Jay
> wants a particular kickstand for a reason.
>
> > Schwalbe Marathon Plus-- $38.00 (unoversal cycles)
>
> He needs two. You've calculated for one.
>
> > Total $1070 with specc'ed accessories (with no need for "discount" for
> > overpriced parts)
>
> > Total $1014 with comparable accessories
>
> You've left off the Ergon grips. And you haven't put your mind in
> gear, pal. How many times is it now that Jay will have to pay carriage
> charges? And where's the sales tax?
>
> > Install accessories yourself and save a bundle
>
> The OP told us he doesn't like messing around with his bike. A store
> that comes highly recommended by other posters, and even another
> dealer, will give him free fitting of the custom parts -- and you want
> him to give it up to save perhaps a handful of dollars?
>
> Calculate again, Big Jim, after you read the threads and discover
> what *was required in the first instance.
>
> Andre Jutehttp://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20%26%20CYCLING.html
>
>
>
> > On Feb 29, 8:30*pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > In article <CtednbImLLyrPlXanZ2dnUVZ_rWtn...@comcast.com>,
>
> > > *"Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Welcome to the latest installment of 'Jay's all-weather Chicago commuter
> > > > bike'. Here is the quote I have received from Rapid Transit Cycleshop. Is
> > > > this a fair price? I don't think I am getting much credit for the stock
> > > > parts I am rejecting (in favor of my spec'ed parts).
>
> > > > I want to use the same pedals as I am currently using on my folder, so I can
> > > > wear the same bike shoes, whichever bike I decide to ride that day.
>
> > > > Is that Brooks saddle price a bit high?
>
> > > > I think I want to go wider tire in back, narrower tire in front, because of
> > > > the weight distribution.
>
> > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> > > > Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
>
> > > > Shimano M520 clipless pedals (comes with cleats) -- $55
> > > > Brooks B17 Black Champion Flyer w/steel rails and copper rivets -- $145
> > > > Pletscher 2 leg kickstand (silver or black?) -- $56.88
> > > > Ergon GP1 grips Men's large -- $42
> > > > Schwalbe Marathon Plus 700 x 35? 37? -- 2 x $45.87 = $91.74
>
> > > > Subtotal -- $1240.62
> > > > 25% discount off swapped items (pedals, saddle, kickstand, grips and tires)
> > > > Subtotal after discount -- $1142.97
> > > > Tax -- $102.87
> > > > Total -- $1245.84
>
> > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> > > > Thanks for any info - J.
>
> > > Well, they're throwing in the labor of swapping pedals, seat, kickstand,
> > > grips, and tires for free. That ought to figure into your equation.
>
> > > The 25% discount is probably a reasonable maximum, considering how much
> > > they will get for the OEM take-off parts.
>
> > > I tend not to give most LBSen much stick for their pricing. If you are
> > > concerned about the cost, well, more pricing information about the
> > > Brooks B17 Champion Flyer can be found on the Web. It's more than Harris
> > > charges, for example, but they stock and specialize in those saddles.
>
> > > I guess what I'm saying is that they're not egregiously ripping you off.
> > > Only you can decide if what they're offering is worth the price.
>
> > > --
> > > Ryan Cousineau rcous...@gmail.comhttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> > > "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
> > > "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Jay]

"Andre Jute" <fiultra@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f877033b-ceff-446c-a0a6-b35c19ac3d82@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 2, 11:30 pm, bigjimp...@gmail.com wrote:
> You're being hosed dude!!! Bent over and reamed raw!! Here's what ir
> should cost
> Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
> Shimano M520 pedals- $38.99 (Universal Cycles)
> OR
> Nashbar clipless ---- $17.99 (nashbar.com)

What's the point of buying a bike like this and fitting generic-****
components?

> Brooks B17 Champion Flyer-- $99 (wallbike.com)

But that's not what Jay wants.

I think Andre has it about right.

I have spec'ed the following saddle, because I like the contrast of the
copper rivets against the black leather; and I think the copper color
(including the copper rails) will be a nice cosmetic match with the pin
striping on the bike:

http://www.wallbike.com/b17cscopper.html

> Or - Just as comfy less geeky
> B-17 Standard ---$64
> Ascent kickstand--- $5.95 (nashbar.com)

There's probably a better kickstand than that on the bike already. Jay
wants a particular kickstand for a reason.

I like the Swiss-made double-leg kickstand, because I use the darn thing
several times a day. I just want it to work, in the wind. I have never seen
a single-leg kickstand which performs as well in the wind or on bad
pavement, as a double-leg kickstand. I would throw a $6 kickstand in the
trash, since it is not worth the price of shipping it back to China (or
their ilk).

> Schwalbe Marathon Plus-- $38.00 (unoversal cycles)

He needs two. You've calculated for one.

> Total $1070 with specc'ed accessories (with no need for "discount" for
> overpriced parts)
>
> Total $1014 with comparable accessories

You've left off the Ergon grips. And you haven't put your mind in
gear, pal. How many times is it now that Jay will have to pay carriage
charges? And where's the sales tax?

A BIG factor in my decision to have the LBS RTC handle the details, is all
the spec'ed stuff is delivered from wherever, to RTC. They handle all the
details. I just don't want to be bothered, and if that costs me a few bucks,
I will pay. If there is a screw-up, or extra charges of any sort, that is
totally transparent to me.

> Install accessories yourself and save a bundle

The OP told us he doesn't like messing around with his bike. A store
that comes highly recommended by other posters, and even another
dealer, will give him free fitting of the custom parts -- and you want
him to give it up to save perhaps a handful of dollars?

There is no doubt that RTC is a first rate shop, and I have beena customer
of many Chicago (and suburbs) bike shops. They have the mechanical know-how,
and the right customer focus. That is important to me, since I expect to
bring the bike to them for repairs/maintenance.

Whether the Electra Amsterdam Royal 8 is a Fred-bike, I am not qualified to
answer. Mostly because I can't find a good definition of a Fred-bike, though
I have heard the term used. I am not racing - I am commuting - already
discussed.

Calculate again, Big Jim, after you read the threads and discover
what was required in the first instance.

Andre Jute
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20%26%20CYCLING.html

> On Feb 29, 8:30 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <CtednbImLLyrPlXanZ2dnUVZ_rWtn...@comcast.com>,
>
> > "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Welcome to the latest installment of 'Jay's all-weather Chicago
> > > commuter
> > > bike'. Here is the quote I have received from Rapid Transit Cycleshop.
> > > Is
> > > this a fair price? I don't think I am getting much credit for the
> > > stock
> > > parts I am rejecting (in favor of my spec'ed parts).
>
> > > I want to use the same pedals as I am currently using on my folder, so
> > > I can
> > > wear the same bike shoes, whichever bike I decide to ride that day.
>
> > > Is that Brooks saddle price a bit high?
>
> > > I think I want to go wider tire in back, narrower tire in front,
> > > because of
> > > the weight distribution.
>
> > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> > > Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
>
> > > Shimano M520 clipless pedals (comes with cleats) -- $55
> > > Brooks B17 Black Champion Flyer w/steel rails and copper rivets --
> > > $145
> > > Pletscher 2 leg kickstand (silver or black?) -- $56.88
> > > Ergon GP1 grips Men's large -- $42
> > > Schwalbe Marathon Plus 700 x 35? 37? -- 2 x $45.87 = $91.74
>
> > > Subtotal -- $1240.62
> > > 25% discount off swapped items (pedals, saddle, kickstand, grips and
> > > tires)
> > > Subtotal after discount -- $1142.97
> > > Tax -- $102.87
> > > Total -- $1245.84
>
> > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> > > Thanks for any info - J.
>
> > Well, they're throwing in the labor of swapping pedals, seat, kickstand,
> > grips, and tires for free. That ought to figure into your equation.
>
> > The 25% discount is probably a reasonable maximum, considering how much
> > they will get for the OEM take-off parts.
>
> > I tend not to give most LBSen much stick for their pricing. If you are
> > concerned about the cost, well, more pricing information about the
> > Brooks B17 Champion Flyer can be found on the Web. It's more than Harris
> > charges, for example, but they stock and specialize in those saddles.
>
> > I guess what I'm saying is that they're not egregiously ripping you off.
> > Only you can decide if what they're offering is worth the price.
>
> > --
> > Ryan Cousineau rcous...@gmail.comhttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> > "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
> > "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -

[landotter]

On Mar 3, 6:12 pm, bigjimp...@gmail.com wrote:
> He could order from two sources and pay shipping but no sales tax. On
> a fred bike like that the components dont matter. Still save a couple
> hundred $$$.

meet jim beam!
<plonk>

[Tom Sherman]

"bigjimpack@gmail.com" TOP POSTED:
> He could order from two sources and pay shipping but no sales tax. On
> a fred bike like that the components dont matter. Still save a couple
> hundred $$$. There is no need to pay $50 for SPD type pedals as
> generics are as good and very cheap. He asked if it was a deal. I
> say no. Some may say yes but they are usually those who pay more at a
> shop for items that can be had much cheaper on line
>
The obvious prejudice against a practical city bicycle is showing. For
Jay's needs, he would be silly to buy a "non-Fred" skinny tire road
bicycle or a true ATB.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

[bigjimpack@gmail.com]

It's your money- I can think of a lot that $200 saved could buy. A
fred bike is hard to describe. Basically those dutch style ones are
drab and have no style. People think theyre making a statemebt with
them but there are many other bikes that provide trouble free
transportation with nice style. A shop may be fine and I understand
buying a bike from them if you arent comfortable buying on line but
there is no need to pay the inflated prices
most shops charge
On Mar 3, 7:56*pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Andre Jute" <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f877033b-ceff-446c-a0a6-b35c19ac3d82@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 2, 11:30 pm, bigjimp...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > You're being hosed dude!!! Bent over and reamed raw!! Here's what ir
> > should cost
> > Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
> > Shimano M520 pedals- $38.99 (Universal Cycles)
> > OR
> > Nashbar clipless ---- $17.99 (nashbar.com)
>
> What's the point of buying a bike like this and fitting generic-****
> components?
>
> > Brooks B17 Champion Flyer-- $99 (wallbike.com)
>
> But that's not what Jay wants.
>
> I think Andre has it about right.
>
> I have spec'ed the following saddle, because I like the contrast of the
> copper rivets against the black leather; and I think the copper color
> (including the copper rails) will be a nice cosmetic match with the pin
> striping on the bike:
>
> http://www.wallbike.com/b17cscopper.html
>
> > Or - Just as comfy less geeky
> > B-17 Standard ---$64
> > Ascent kickstand--- $5.95 (nashbar.com)
>
> There's probably a better kickstand than that on the bike already. Jay
> wants a particular kickstand for a reason.
>
> I like the Swiss-made double-leg kickstand, because I use the darn thing
> several times a day. I just want it to work, in the wind. I have never seen
> a single-leg kickstand which performs as well in the wind or on bad
> pavement, as a double-leg kickstand. I would throw a $6 kickstand in the
> trash, since it is not worth the price of shipping it back to China (or
> their ilk).
>
> > Schwalbe Marathon Plus-- $38.00 (unoversal cycles)
>
> He needs two. You've calculated for one.
>
> > Total $1070 with specc'ed accessories (with no need for "discount" for
> > overpriced parts)
>
> > Total $1014 with comparable accessories
>
> You've left off the Ergon grips. And you haven't put your mind in
> gear, pal. How many times is it now that Jay will have to pay carriage
> charges? And where's the sales tax?
>
> A BIG factor in my decision to have the LBS RTC handle the details, is all
> the spec'ed stuff is delivered from wherever, to RTC. They handle all the
> details. I just don't want to be bothered, and if that costs me a few bucks,
> I will pay. If there is a screw-up, or extra charges of any sort, that is
> totally transparent to me.
>
> > Install accessories yourself and save a bundle
>
> The OP told us he doesn't like messing around with his bike. A store
> that comes highly recommended by other posters, and even another
> dealer, will give him free fitting of the custom parts -- and you want
> him to give it up to save perhaps a handful of dollars?
>
> There is no doubt that RTC is a first rate shop, and I have beena customer
> of many Chicago (and suburbs) bike shops. They have the mechanical know-how,
> and the right customer focus. That is important to me, since I expect to
> bring the bike to them for repairs/maintenance.
>
> Whether the Electra Amsterdam Royal 8 is a Fred-bike, I am not qualified to
> answer. Mostly because I can't find a good definition of a Fred-bike, though
> I have heard the term used. I am not racing - I am commuting - already
> discussed.
>
> Calculate again, Big Jim, after you read the threads and discover
> what *was required in the first instance.
>
> Andre Jutehttp://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20%26%20CYCLING.html
>
>
>
> > On Feb 29, 8:30 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > In article <CtednbImLLyrPlXanZ2dnUVZ_rWtn...@comcast.com>,
>
> > > "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Welcome to the latest installment of 'Jay's all-weather Chicago
> > > > commuter
> > > > bike'. Here is the quote I have received from Rapid Transit Cycleshop.
> > > > Is
> > > > this a fair price? I don't think I am getting much credit for the
> > > > stock
> > > > parts I am rejecting (in favor of my spec'ed parts).
>
> > > > I want to use the same pedals as I am currently using on my folder, so
> > > > I can
> > > > wear the same bike shoes, whichever bike I decide to ride that day.
>
> > > > Is that Brooks saddle price a bit high?
>
> > > > I think I want to go wider tire in back, narrower tire in front,
> > > > because of
> > > > the weight distribution.
>
> > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> > > > Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
>
> > > > Shimano M520 clipless pedals (comes with cleats) -- $55
> > > > Brooks B17 Black Champion Flyer w/steel rails and copper rivets -- *
> > > > $145
> > > > Pletscher 2 leg kickstand (silver or black?) -- $56.88
> > > > Ergon GP1 grips Men's large -- $42
> > > > Schwalbe Marathon Plus 700 x 35? 37? -- 2 x $45.87 = $91.74
>
> > > > Subtotal -- $1240.62
> > > > 25% discount off swapped items (pedals, saddle, kickstand, grips and
> > > > tires)
> > > > Subtotal after discount -- $1142.97
> > > > Tax -- $102.87
> > > > Total -- $1245.84
>
> > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> > > > Thanks for any info - J.
>
> > > Well, they're throwing in the labor of swapping pedals, seat, kickstand,
> > > grips, and tires for free. That ought to figure into your equation.
>
> > > The 25% discount is probably a reasonable maximum, considering how much
> > > they will get for the OEM take-off parts.
>
> > > I tend not to give most LBSen much stick for their pricing. If you are
> > > concerned about the cost, well, more pricing information about the
> > > Brooks B17 Champion Flyer can be found on the Web. It's more than Harris
> > > charges, for example, but they stock and specialize in those saddles.
>
> > > I guess what I'm saying is that they're not egregiously ripping you off.
> > > Only you can decide if what they're offering is worth the price.
>
> > > --
> > > Ryan Cousineau rcous...@gmail.comhttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> > > "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
> > > "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Andre Jute]

On Mar 4, 1:13*am, bigjimp...@gmail.com wrote:
> It's your money- I can think of a lot that $200 saved could buy. *A
> fred bike is hard to describe. *Basically those dutch style ones are
> drab and have no style. * People think theyre making a statemebt with
> them but there are many other bikes that provide trouble free
> transportation with nice style. *A shop may be fine and I understand
> buying a bike from them if you arent comfortable buying on line but
> there is no need to pay the *inflated prices

I bought both my Dutch city bikes by mail-order from two and three
countries away. One of them is almost exactly comparable to what Jay
is getting, except I didn't get a Brooks saddle, Ergon grips, special
pedals or a two-footed stand (I got some other nice custom stuff but
nowhere near that value). And here's the trick: I paid exactly what
Jay paid, and all I got that he doesn't is a prestige name.

Your taste must be off if you think Dutch city bike styles have
anything in the slightest off about them. My black Gazelle
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20Bauhaus.html
causes a lot of open envy, and my blue and silver Trek
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20Trek%20Navigator%20L700%20Smover.html
gets me stopped on the roads
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20Kilmacsimon%201.html
at least twice a week,
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20Kilmacsimon%202.html
including by racers who want to inspect the Bontrager wheels.

Sounds to me like a "Fred bike" is one ridden by someone who has the
strength of mind not to become a fashion victim.

Andre Jute
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20%26%20CYCLING.html

> most shops charge
> On Mar 3, 7:56*pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "Andre Jute" <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:f877033b-ceff-446c-a0a6-b35c19ac3d82@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> > On Mar 2, 11:30 pm, bigjimp...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > You're being hosed dude!!! Bent over and reamed raw!! Here's what ir
> > > should cost
> > > Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
> > > Shimano M520 pedals- $38.99 (Universal Cycles)
> > > OR
> > > Nashbar clipless ---- $17.99 (nashbar.com)
>
> > What's the point of buying a bike like this and fitting generic-****
> > components?
>
> > > Brooks B17 Champion Flyer-- $99 (wallbike.com)
>
> > But that's not what Jay wants.
>
> > I think Andre has it about right.
>
> > I have spec'ed the following saddle, because I like the contrast of the
> > copper rivets against the black leather; and I think the copper color
> > (including the copper rails) will be a nice cosmetic match with the pin
> > striping on the bike:
>
> >http://www.wallbike.com/b17cscopper.html
>
> > > Or - Just as comfy less geeky
> > > B-17 Standard ---$64
> > > Ascent kickstand--- $5.95 (nashbar.com)
>
> > There's probably a better kickstand than that on the bike already. Jay
> > wants a particular kickstand for a reason.
>
> > I like the Swiss-made double-leg kickstand, because I use the darn thing
> > several times a day. I just want it to work, in the wind. I have never seen
> > a single-leg kickstand which performs as well in the wind or on bad
> > pavement, as a double-leg kickstand. I would throw a $6 kickstand in the
> > trash, since it is not worth the price of shipping it back to China (or
> > their ilk).
>
> > > Schwalbe Marathon Plus-- $38.00 (unoversal cycles)
>
> > He needs two. You've calculated for one.
>
> > > Total $1070 with specc'ed accessories (with no need for "discount" for
> > > overpriced parts)
>
> > > Total $1014 with comparable accessories
>
> > You've left off the Ergon grips. And you haven't put your mind in
> > gear, pal. How many times is it now that Jay will have to pay carriage
> > charges? And where's the sales tax?
>
> > A BIG factor in my decision to have the LBS RTC handle the details, is all
> > the spec'ed stuff is delivered from wherever, to RTC. They handle all the
> > details. I just don't want to be bothered, and if that costs me a few bucks,
> > I will pay. If there is a screw-up, or extra charges of any sort, that is
> > totally transparent to me.
>
> > > Install accessories yourself and save a bundle
>
> > The OP told us he doesn't like messing around with his bike. A store
> > that comes highly recommended by other posters, and even another
> > dealer, will give him free fitting of the custom parts -- and you want
> > him to give it up to save perhaps a handful of dollars?
>
> > There is no doubt that RTC is a first rate shop, and I have beena customer
> > of many Chicago (and suburbs) bike shops. They have the mechanical know-how,
> > and the right customer focus. That is important to me, since I expect to
> > bring the bike to them for repairs/maintenance.
>
> > Whether the Electra Amsterdam Royal 8 is a Fred-bike, I am not qualified to
> > answer. Mostly because I can't find a good definition of a Fred-bike, though
> > I have heard the term used. I am not racing - I am commuting - already
> > discussed.
>
> > Calculate again, Big Jim, after you read the threads and discover
> > what *was required in the first instance.
>
> > Andre Jutehttp://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20%26%20CYCLING.html
>
> > > On Feb 29, 8:30 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > In article <CtednbImLLyrPlXanZ2dnUVZ_rWtn...@comcast.com>,
>
> > > > "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Welcome to the latest installment of 'Jay's all-weather Chicago
> > > > > commuter
> > > > > bike'. Here is the quote I have received from Rapid Transit Cycleshop.
> > > > > Is
> > > > > this a fair price? I don't think I am getting much credit for the
> > > > > stock
> > > > > parts I am rejecting (in favor of my spec'ed parts).
>
> > > > > I want to use the same pedals as I am currently using on my folder, so
> > > > > I can
> > > > > wear the same bike shoes, whichever bike I decide to ride that day..
>
> > > > > Is that Brooks saddle price a bit high?
>
> > > > > I think I want to go wider tire in back, narrower tire in front,
> > > > > because of
> > > > > the weight distribution.
>
> > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> > > > > Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
>
> > > > > Shimano M520 clipless pedals (comes with cleats) -- $55
> > > > > Brooks B17 Black Champion Flyer w/steel rails and copper rivets -- *
> > > > > $145
> > > > > Pletscher 2 leg kickstand (silver or black?) -- $56.88
> > > > > Ergon GP1 grips Men's large -- $42
> > > > > Schwalbe Marathon Plus 700 x 35? 37? -- 2 x $45.87 = $91.74
>
> > > > > Subtotal -- $1240.62
> > > > > 25% discount off swapped items (pedals, saddle, kickstand, grips and
> > > > > tires)
> > > > > Subtotal after discount -- $1142.97
> > > > > Tax -- $102.87
> > > > > Total -- $1245.84
>
> > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> > > > > Thanks for any info - J.
>
> > > > Well, they're throwing in the labor of swapping pedals, seat, kickstand,
> > > > grips, and tires for free. That ought to figure into your equation.
>
> > > > The 25% discount is probably a reasonable maximum, considering how much
> > > > they will get for the OEM take-off parts.
>
> > > > I tend not to give most LBSen much stick for their pricing. If you are
> > > > concerned about the cost, well, more pricing information about the
> > > > Brooks B17 Champion Flyer can be found on the Web. It's more than Harris
> > > > charges, for example, but they stock and specialize in those saddles..
>
> > > > I guess what I'm saying is that they're not egregiously ripping you off.
> > > > Only you can decide if what they're offering is worth the price.
>
> > > > --
> > > > Ryan Cousineau rcous...@gmail.comhttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> > > > "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
> > > > "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -

[Jay]

<bigjimpack@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1dc1c046-afce-428b-9ef2-42beba24c95a@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
It's your money- I can think of a lot that $200 saved could buy. A
fred bike is hard to describe. Basically those dutch style ones are
drab and have no style. People think theyre making a statemebt with
them but there are many other bikes that provide trouble free
transportation with nice style. A shop may be fine and I understand
buying a bike from them if you arent comfortable buying on line but
there is no need to pay the inflated prices
most shops charge
On Mar 3, 7:56 pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Andre Jute" <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f877033b-ceff-446c-a0a6-b35c19ac3d82@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 2, 11:30 pm, bigjimp...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > You're being hosed dude!!! Bent over and reamed raw!! Here's what ir
> > should cost
> >
I think the top-poster (and snip) Internet police are hot on your trail.

J.

[Andre Jute]

On Mar 4, 1:15*am, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
wrote:
> "bigjimp...@gmail.com" ??? wrote:
> > That was a quick example in three minutes I saved him $2-300 . * With
> > more searching he might have saved more. *None of those items are shop
> > only installs and comparable items are easy to find.
>
> Take Jay's hourly wage times what it would take him to do the parts
> swaps himself, and the shop rate looks pretty good, unless Jay is an
> experienced mechanic with all the tools readily at hand. There is also
> the time it would take Jay to hawk the unused parts on Craigslist, eBay
> et al.

There's more to it than the mere economics, Tom. Elsewhere I describe
some really minor but vastly irritating little problems of working on
Nexus-equipped bikes
http://groups.google.ie/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_thread/thread/18552c442b6fe0c7?hl=en#
which disappear magically someone shows you the knack of doing the job
instantly. A good shop will certainly show Jay how these two little
jobs are done if he asks, and let him watch as they do them while the
tyres are being swapped.

Andre Jute
The devil lies in the details


> *> Who wants a two legged kickstand?
>
> A serious commuter.
>
> > Nashbar pedals are as good as any and there are
> > other tires that perform as well for less- vittoria randonneurs for
> > $29 at REI . *Nashbar ergo gel grips are $6 and just as good as ergon.
>
> I have found that off-brand "SPD compatible" pedals are often found to
> be lacking in the compatibility department.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

[bigjimpack@gmail.com]

You must not be in the US. Those bikes are fine for short rides but
not very efficient with bars sky high like that. I cannot imagine
anyone stopping for one of thiose style bikes. I dont fall for
fashion vut I require comfort and practicality. Just bought a
Bianchi San Jose. Smooth ride and single speed is liberating.
EXTREMELY comfortable. Fits racks etc


On Mar 3, 8:27*pm, Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mar 4, 1:13*am, bigjimp...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > It's your money- I can think of a lot that $200 saved could buy. *A
> > fred bike is hard to describe. *Basically those dutch style ones are
> > drab and have no style. * People think theyre making a statemebt with
> > them but there are many other bikes that provide trouble free
> > transportation with nice style. *A shop may be fine and I understand
> > buying a bike from them if you arent comfortable buying on line but
> > there is no need to pay the *inflated prices
>
> I bought both my Dutch city bikes by mail-order from two and three
> countries away. One of them is almost exactly comparable to what Jay
> is getting, except I didn't get a Brooks saddle, Ergon grips, special
> pedals or a two-footed stand (I got some other nice custom stuff but
> nowhere near that value). And here's the trick: I paid exactly what
> Jay paid, and all I got that he doesn't is a prestige name.
>
> Your taste must be off if you think Dutch city bike styles have
> anything in the slightest off about them. My black Gazellehttp://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20Bauhaus.html
> causes a lot of open envy, and my blue and silver Trekhttp://members.lycos..co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20Trek%20Navigator%20L700%...
> gets me stopped on the roadshttp://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20Kilmacsimon%201.html
> at least twice a week,http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20Kilmacsimon%202.html
> including by racers who want to inspect the Bontrager wheels.
>
> Sounds to me like a "Fred bike" is one ridden by someone who has the
> strength of mind not to become a fashion victim.
>
> Andre Jutehttp://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20%26%20CYCLING.html
>
>
>
> > most shops charge
> > On Mar 3, 7:56*pm, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > "Andre Jute" <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:f877033b-ceff-446c-a0a6-b35c19ac3d82@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com....
> > > On Mar 2, 11:30 pm, bigjimp...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > You're being hosed dude!!! Bent over and reamed raw!! Here's what ir
> > > > should cost
> > > > Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
> > > > Shimano M520 pedals- $38.99 (Universal Cycles)
> > > > OR
> > > > Nashbar clipless ---- $17.99 (nashbar.com)
>
> > > What's the point of buying a bike like this and fitting generic-****
> > > components?
>
> > > > Brooks B17 Champion Flyer-- $99 (wallbike.com)
>
> > > But that's not what Jay wants.
>
> > > I think Andre has it about right.
>
> > > I have spec'ed the following saddle, because I like the contrast of the
> > > copper rivets against the black leather; and I think the copper color
> > > (including the copper rails) will be a nice cosmetic match with the pin
> > > striping on the bike:
>
> > >http://www.wallbike.com/b17cscopper.html
>
> > > > Or - Just as comfy less geeky
> > > > B-17 Standard ---$64
> > > > Ascent kickstand--- $5.95 (nashbar.com)
>
> > > There's probably a better kickstand than that on the bike already. Jay
> > > wants a particular kickstand for a reason.
>
> > > I like the Swiss-made double-leg kickstand, because I use the darn thing
> > > several times a day. I just want it to work, in the wind. I have never seen
> > > a single-leg kickstand which performs as well in the wind or on bad
> > > pavement, as a double-leg kickstand. I would throw a $6 kickstand in the
> > > trash, since it is not worth the price of shipping it back to China (or
> > > their ilk).
>
> > > > Schwalbe Marathon Plus-- $38.00 (unoversal cycles)
>
> > > He needs two. You've calculated for one.
>
> > > > Total $1070 with specc'ed accessories (with no need for "discount" for
> > > > overpriced parts)
>
> > > > Total $1014 with comparable accessories
>
> > > You've left off the Ergon grips. And you haven't put your mind in
> > > gear, pal. How many times is it now that Jay will have to pay carriage
> > > charges? And where's the sales tax?
>
> > > A BIG factor in my decision to have the LBS RTC handle the details, is all
> > > the spec'ed stuff is delivered from wherever, to RTC. They handle all the
> > > details. I just don't want to be bothered, and if that costs me a few bucks,
> > > I will pay. If there is a screw-up, or extra charges of any sort, that is
> > > totally transparent to me.
>
> > > > Install accessories yourself and save a bundle
>
> > > The OP told us he doesn't like messing around with his bike. A store
> > > that comes highly recommended by other posters, and even another
> > > dealer, will give him free fitting of the custom parts -- and you want
> > > him to give it up to save perhaps a handful of dollars?
>
> > > There is no doubt that RTC is a first rate shop, and I have beena customer
> > > of many Chicago (and suburbs) bike shops. They have the mechanical know-how,
> > > and the right customer focus. That is important to me, since I expect to
> > > bring the bike to them for repairs/maintenance.
>
> > > Whether the Electra Amsterdam Royal 8 is a Fred-bike, I am not qualified to
> > > answer. Mostly because I can't find a good definition of a Fred-bike, though
> > > I have heard the term used. I am not racing - I am commuting - already
> > > discussed.
>
> > > Calculate again, Big Jim, after you read the threads and discover
> > > what *was required in the first instance.
>
> > > Andre Jutehttp://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20%26%20CYCLING.html
>
> > > > On Feb 29, 8:30 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > In article <CtednbImLLyrPlXanZ2dnUVZ_rWtn...@comcast.com>,
>
> > > > > "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Welcome to the latest installment of 'Jay's all-weather Chicago
> > > > > > commuter
> > > > > > bike'. Here is the quote I have received from Rapid Transit Cycleshop.
> > > > > > Is
> > > > > > this a fair price? I don't think I am getting much credit for the
> > > > > > stock
> > > > > > parts I am rejecting (in favor of my spec'ed parts).
>
> > > > > > I want to use the same pedals as I am currently using on my folder, so
> > > > > > I can
> > > > > > wear the same bike shoes, whichever bike I decide to ride that day.
>
> > > > > > Is that Brooks saddle price a bit high?
>
> > > > > > I think I want to go wider tire in back, narrower tire in front,
> > > > > > because of
> > > > > > the weight distribution.
>
> > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> > > > > > Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
>
> > > > > > Shimano M520 clipless pedals (comes with cleats) -- $55
> > > > > > Brooks B17 Black Champion Flyer w/steel rails and copper rivets -- *
> > > > > > $145
> > > > > > Pletscher 2 leg kickstand (silver or black?) -- $56.88
> > > > > > Ergon GP1 grips Men's large -- $42
> > > > > > Schwalbe Marathon Plus 700 x 35? 37? -- 2 x $45.87 = $91.74
>
> > > > > > Subtotal -- $1240.62
> > > > > > 25% discount off swapped items (pedals, saddle, kickstand, grips and
> > > > > > tires)
> > > > > > Subtotal after discount -- $1142.97
> > > > > > Tax -- $102.87
> > > > > > Total -- $1245.84
>
> > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> > > > > > Thanks for any info - J.
>
> > > > > Well, they're throwing in the labor of swapping pedals, seat, kickstand,
> > > > > grips, and tires for free. That ought to figure into your equation..
>
> > > > > The 25% discount is probably a reasonable maximum, considering how much
> > > > > they will get for the OEM take-off parts.
>
> > > > > I tend not to give most LBSen much stick for their pricing. If you are
> > > > > concerned about the cost, well, more pricing information about the
> > > > > Brooks B17 Champion Flyer can be found on the Web. It's more than Harris
> > > > > charges, for example, but they stock and specialize in those saddles.
>
> > > > > I guess what I'm saying is that they're not egregiously ripping you off.
> > > > > Only you can decide if what they're offering is worth the price.
>
> > > > > --
> > > > > Ryan Cousineau rcous...@gmail.comhttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> > > > > "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
> > > > > "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Jay]

"Andre Jute" <fiultra@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:862c0b45-f0ed-4ff6-bf1f-c96a4b51e06d@p73g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...

Andre Jute
The devil lies in the details
>
The devil is absolutely in the details. I don't want to be a bike-mechanic
trainee. I want to do what I do (IT administration), and I will pay a LBS a
fair price, for what they know how to do.

> > Who wants a two legged kickstand?
>
> A serious commuter.
>
Especially in the wind, and on bad pavement. It is often convenient to have
the rear wheel off the ground, so it spins freely. Not hard to imagine those
scenarios.

J.

[Tom Sherman]

Andre Jute wrote:
> On Mar 4, 1:15 am, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> "bigjimp...@gmail.com" ??? wrote:
>>> That was a quick example in three minutes I saved him $2-300 . With
>>> more searching he might have saved more. None of those items are shop
>>> only installs and comparable items are easy to find.
>> Take Jay's hourly wage times what it would take him to do the parts
>> swaps himself, and the shop rate looks pretty good, unless Jay is an
>> experienced mechanic with all the tools readily at hand. There is also
>> the time it would take Jay to hawk the unused parts on Craigslist, eBay
>> et al.
>
> There's more to it than the mere economics, Tom. Elsewhere I describe
> some really minor but vastly irritating little problems of working on
> Nexus-equipped bikes
> http://groups.google.ie/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_thread/thread/18552c442b6fe0c7?hl=en#
> which disappear magically someone shows you the knack of doing the job
> instantly. A good shop will certainly show Jay how these two little
> jobs are done if he asks, and let him watch as they do them while the
> tyres are being swapped.
>
That is why I put in the "experience mechanic" qualifier. For example, a
certain regular poster to this group can do a typical adjustment in only
a small fraction of the time it would take me (which is likely a large
part of how he can offer such reasonable repair rates).

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

[A Muzi]

>>> "bigjimp...@gmail.com" ??? wrote:
>>>> That was a quick example in three minutes I saved him $2-300 . With
>>>> more searching he might have saved more. None of those items are shop
>>>> only installs and comparable items are easy to find.

>> Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Take Jay's hourly wage times what it would take him to do the parts
>>> swaps himself, and the shop rate looks pretty good, unless Jay is an
>>> experienced mechanic with all the tools readily at hand. There is also
>>> the time it would take Jay to hawk the unused parts on Craigslist, eBay
>>> et al.

> Andre Jute wrote:
>> There's more to it than the mere economics, Tom. Elsewhere I describe
>> some really minor but vastly irritating little problems of working on
>> Nexus-equipped bikes
>> http://groups.google.ie/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_thread/thread/18552c442b6fe0c7?hl=en#
>> which disappear magically someone shows you the knack of doing the job
>> instantly. A good shop will certainly show Jay how these two little
>> jobs are done if he asks, and let him watch as they do them while the
>> tyres are being swapped.

Tom Sherman wrote:
> That is why I put in the "experience mechanic" qualifier. For example, a
> certain regular poster to this group can do a typical adjustment in only
> a small fraction of the time it would take me (which is likely a large
> part of how he can offer such reasonable repair rates).

Thanks.
OK, but I could spend a month trying to work out optimum dimensions and
materials for a bridge span and still get it wrong. We all do what we
do which in some cases works out better all around than swapping duties.

Back to topic: Assume Jay is paying (what, 2 or 3 percent?) something
over the lowest possible price to get the time and attention of Rapid
Transit, and getting a complete ready-to-ride machine exactly as he
wants (Jay stated he didn't care to ditz with the mechanicals). I'd say
he's done well.

Whatever chip one carries on one's shoulder toward us thieving bastards
who run bike shops, Jay's bike is just not an example of excessive fees.

Any idiot can ride to a grocery and cook a dinner for less cash than
most restaurants charge. So what?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Paul M. Hobson]

A Muzi wrote:
> Back to topic: Assume Jay is paying (what, 2 or 3 percent?) something
> over the lowest possible price to get the time and attention of Rapid
> Transit, and getting a complete ready-to-ride machine exactly as he
> wants (Jay stated he didn't care to ditz with the mechanicals). I'd say
> he's done well.
>
> Whatever chip one carries on one's shoulder toward us thieving bastards
> who run bike shops, Jay's bike is just not an example of excessive fees.

Additionally, for example...

I could have snatched up a SRAM Rival group for $500 (US) on eBay when
it first came out, but I didn't. I do, however, tend to think that the
good Atlanta LBSes have enough barriers to financial success. They're
there for me when I need a headset installed or a wacky wheel trued. I
sleep well at night knowing I help keep a small local business paying
its employees (with children) decent wages.

\\paul
--
Paul M. Hobson
..:change the f to ph to reply:.

[Andre Jute]

On Mar 4, 1:42*pm, "Paul M. Hobson" <fob...@gatech.edu> wrote:
> A Muzi wrote:
> > Back to topic: *Assume Jay is paying (what, 2 or 3 percent?) something
> > over the lowest possible price to get the time and attention of Rapid
> > Transit, and getting a complete ready-to-ride machine exactly as he
> > wants (Jay stated he didn't care to ditz with the mechanicals). I'd say
> > he's done well.
>
> > Whatever chip one carries on one's shoulder toward us thieving bastards
> > who run bike shops, Jay's bike is just not an example of excessive fees.

Actually, my problem with most of the bike shops I know is not the
prices -- I don't really care how much money I spend on my bike; by
comparison to my hi-fi it is a drop in the ocean -- but that they're
such chill, unfriendly places to go into. There are a few exceptions,
but they're all run by older chaps, some of them very old; when the
good guys are gone, I can see a time when I'll do all my bike-shopping
on the internet. I'm already learning to do all my mechanicking
myself.

> LBSes have enough barriers to financial success. *They're
> there for me when I need a headset installed or a wacky wheel trued. *I
> sleep well at night knowing I help keep a small local business paying
> its employees (with children) decent wages.
>
> \\paul
> --
> Paul M. Hobson
> .:change the f to ph to reply:.

When I went into Dutch city bikes, I gave my just-rebuilt old Peugeot
to my LBS (one of the good old chappies), free of charge. He sold it
for a couple of hundred bucks which he pocketed. That avoided the
problem of wanting service for a bike I hadn't bought from him (I
offered him the chance to import for me precisely what I wanted, and
he didn't want the bother again -- my old Peugeot, a more expensive
bike than he usually sells, had been a special order and he'd found it
more draining than the profit). The gift of an unwanted but still
salable bike earned me goodwill which is really very valuable, a
guarantee of instant attention when I want something done even on a
bike he hadn't sold, a permanent right to wander into the stockroom to
see if there is anything I want (VAR tools, and cheap too), a guy who
doesn't mind giving me a demo of how to use a specialist tool which is
a big time-saving over RTFM and kludging, a dealer delivery address
for wholesalers who don't want to deliver to Joe Public (I just pay
double what the wholesalers invoice -- it recompenses the LBS for all
those times he made a small adjustment on my bike and didn't charge
for it). It's worth a few bucks to have your LBS onside.

I just wish some of the younger LBS were worth having onside; one must
look to the future.

Andre Jute
Machiavelli Pedal Pushers

[Jay]

"Andre Jute" <fiultra@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:078e77af-9d60-4d92-8bf5-a775e7623fb1@p73g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 4, 1:42 pm, "Paul M. Hobson" <fob...@gatech.edu> wrote:
> A Muzi wrote:
> > Back to topic: Assume Jay is paying (what, 2 or 3 percent?) something
> > over the lowest possible price to get the time and attention of Rapid
> > Transit, and getting a complete ready-to-ride machine exactly as he
> > wants (Jay stated he didn't care to ditz with the mechanicals). I'd say
> > he's done well.
>
> > Whatever chip one carries on one's shoulder toward us thieving bastards
> > who run bike shops, Jay's bike is just not an example of excessive fees.

Actually, my problem with most of the bike shops I know is not the
prices -- I don't really care how much money I spend on my bike; by
comparison to my hi-fi it is a drop in the ocean -- but that they're
such chill, unfriendly places to go into. There are a few exceptions,
but they're all run by older chaps, some of them very old; when the
good guys are gone, I can see a time when I'll do all my bike-shopping
on the internet. I'm already learning to do all my mechanicking
myself.
>
I buy virtually all my bike stuff online. Perhaps, if I knew how to do all
my own mechanical work, I would have no reason to shop at my LBS. But having
said that, even if I were able to do all my own wrench work, it would make
financial sense for me, to have a bike pro do it. They do it faster, and I
would rather do what I do best, anyway. To me, this is the essence of
capitalism, and the monetary system itself. I don't want to make my own bike
shoes! Sidi already has that niche figured out.

Whatever J.

[Jay]

"Andre Jute" <fiultra@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:078e77af-9d60-4d92-8bf5-a775e7623fb1@p73g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 4, 1:42 pm, "Paul M. Hobson" <fob...@gatech.edu> wrote:
> A Muzi wrote:
> > Back to topic: Assume Jay is paying (what, 2 or 3 percent?) something
> > over the lowest possible price to get the time and attention of Rapid
> > Transit, and getting a complete ready-to-ride machine exactly as he
> > wants (Jay stated he didn't care to ditz with the mechanicals). I'd say
> > he's done well.
>
> > Whatever chip one carries on one's shoulder toward us thieving bastards
> > who run bike shops, Jay's bike is just not an example of excessive fees.

Actually, my problem with most of the bike shops I know is not the
prices -- I don't really care how much money I spend on my bike; by
comparison to my hi-fi it is a drop in the ocean -- but that they're
such chill, unfriendly places to go into. There are a few exceptions,
but they're all run by older chaps, some of them very old; when the
good guys are gone, I can see a time when I'll do all my bike-shopping
on the internet. I'm already learning to do all my mechanicking
myself.
>
I buy virtually all my bike stuff online. Perhaps, if I knew how to do all
my own mechanical work, I would have no reason to shop at my LBS. But having
said that, even if I were able to do all my own wrench work, it would make
financial sense for me, to have a bike pro do it. They do it faster, and I
would rather do what I do best, anyway. To me, this is the essence of
capitalism, and the monetary system itself. I don't want to make my own bike
shoes! Sidi already has that niche figured out.

Whatever J.

[Jay]

"Jay" <jbollyn@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:lLGdnYIFKKyxaVDanZ2dnUVZ_urinZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
>
Hey - don't yell at me for the dup- yell at Comcast.net!

See what good it will do you.

J.

[Andre Jute]

On Mar 5, 1:15*am, "Jay" <jbol...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I buy virtually all my bike stuff online. Perhaps, if I knew how to do all
> my own mechanical work, I would have no reason to shop at my LBS.

On an "appliance" bike like your new Amsterdam, "your own mechanical"
work should consist of:
1. Lubing the chain (I use White Lightning Original Wax twice a year).
3. Optionally cleaning the bike and rubbing all surfaces with
something protective (I use Vaseline petroleum jelly). I also check
that all threads are tight at these checkovers.
3. Only when required, probably at long intervals. Put the correct
Shimano Roller Brake Grease (order a big tube to be delivered with
your bike) into the brakes *when necessary* ie when they get noisy or
start sticking.

If the bike is well built, that's it for years, depending on how long
your Marathon Plus tyres last. I imagine you will have the bike
tightened up and adjusted at the supplying shop after a month or so.

Cleaning the bike is also, for me, a chance to practice (a) taking the
brake cable brackets off the right way so that on refitting the brakes
do not need adjusting and (b) on my Nexus 8-speed hub gearbox on the
Gazelle fitting back the gear lever cable smoothly. As I said the
other day, these two tasks are necessary to change a flat on the road,
and it helps to have learned the knack of these operations which can
make the difference between a smooth, pleasant tube change or a long
frustration.

>But having
> said that, even if I were able to do all my own wrench work, it would make
> financial sense for me, to have a bike pro do it. They do it faster, and I
> would rather do what I do best, anyway. To me, this is the essence of
> capitalism, and the monetary system itself.

I hate getting my hands dirty. But... My position is that a time may
come when there is no LBS in my village and I will *have* to do my own
mechanicking. That was one reason for going into Dutch city bikes,
which should in my sort of use not require major mechanicking for the
rest of my cycling life, say until I'm ninety. It would be interesting
hearing in ten years what replacement parts your use and environment
has required on your Amsterdam. I know Chicago only from for a few
years making a monthly inspection of our office there, in and out on
the same day, but I'm guessing that modern bearings should hold out
ten years even with your winters.

>I don't want to make my own bike
> shoes! Sidi already has that niche figured out.

You couldn't make one pair for the price Sidi does anyway. Mind you,
the late great Ken Kifer said he made his panniers for less than the
price of good ones in the shops.

> Whatever J.

Every which way.

Andre Jute
Wrenchman