Sachs / Shimano 8-Speed Compatibility

[icebike]

I seem to remember that Sachs had an 80's (or 90's) gruppo that had
Campagnolo-made brifters, but they were made to be compatible with
their own derailleurs and also with Shimano 8-speed systems. Anyone
remember the name of the Sachs gruppo, and whether my memory is
correct regarding the Shimano compatibility?

[res09c5t]

I seem to remember that Sachs had an 80's (or 90's) gruppo that had
> Campagnolo-made brifters, but they were made to be compatible with
> their own derailleurs and also with Shimano 8-speed systems. Anyone
> remember the name of the Sachs gruppo, and whether my memory is
> correct regarding the Shimano compatibility?

We've got a set of those shifters on our tandem. They are Sachs, look like
Campy and it uses Shimano Deore Derailleurs. I think the Shimano hub is
cassette but I didn't have time to verify it to make sure. I couldn't find
a name of the gruppo on the shifters.

If you check Sheldon's gearing page, for 8 speed, Campy, 97 Sachs and SRAM
freewheels are a 5.0 spacing. Shimano, post-97 Sachs and SRAM cassettes are
4.8. These may be close enough to work interchangeably.

Lyle

[Dave Mayer]

"icebike" <thepylons@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21596e42-1cf7-481e-92ba-c4258366cb78@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>I seem to remember that Sachs had an 80's (or 90's) gruppo that had
> Campagnolo-made brifters, but they were made to be compatible with
> their own derailleurs and also with Shimano 8-speed systems. Anyone
> remember the name of the Sachs gruppo, and whether my memory is
> correct regarding the Shimano compatibility?

Sachs New Success. Made by Campagnolo for Sachs from around 1993 to 1999.

I have a set of these shifters. They are not Shimano derailleur compatible,
and it has nothing to do with the minor difference between 4.8 and 5.0mm cog
spacing. They are just fundamentally not compatible with Shimano
derailleurs due to differences in derailleur actuation ratio. They are not
compatible with Campy derailleurs either.

They are compatible with Sachs New Success derailleurs - work immediately
and perfectly right out of the box.

With regards to the claims that these are Shimano derailleur compatible, and
there are two possibilities here:

- Sachs changed their shifters and derailleurs later in the 1990s to be
Shimano cable pull compatible, and I have the older version.
- Or the folks that claim these shifters work with Shimano are simply used
to a misadjusted drivetrain that constantly randomly jumps back and forth
across the rear cogs

[A Muzi]

icebike wrote:
> I seem to remember that Sachs had an 80's (or 90's) gruppo that had
> Campagnolo-made brifters, but they were made to be compatible with
> their own derailleurs and also with Shimano 8-speed systems. Anyone
> remember the name of the Sachs gruppo, and whether my memory is
> correct regarding the Shimano compatibility?

Sachs Aris Ergopower levers were Campagnolo built with a shift ring made
Shimano derailleur compatible.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Hank]

On Mar 1, 4:16 am, icebike <thepyl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I seem to remember that Sachs had an 80's (or 90's) gruppo that had
> Campagnolo-made brifters, but they were made to be compatible with
> their own derailleurs and also with Shimano 8-speed systems. Anyone
> remember the name of the Sachs gruppo, and whether my memory is
> correct regarding the Shimano compatibility?

Campy 10-speed Ergopower brifters are compatible with otherwise
Shimano 8-speed systems. The new "QS" style ones might require a Campy
FD to go with them, though. Anybody tried post-07 "Escape" (Centaur,
Veloce, Mirage or Xenon) Ergos with a Shimano FD?

[A Muzi]

> "icebike" <thepylons@gmail.com> wrote
>> I seem to remember that Sachs had an 80's (or 90's) gruppo that had
>> Campagnolo-made brifters, but they were made to be compatible with
>> their own derailleurs and also with Shimano 8-speed systems. Anyone
>> remember the name of the Sachs gruppo, and whether my memory is
>> correct regarding the Shimano compatibility?

Dave Mayer wrote:
> Sachs New Success. Made by Campagnolo for Sachs from around 1993 to 1999.
>
> I have a set of these shifters. They are not Shimano derailleur compatible,
> and it has nothing to do with the minor difference between 4.8 and 5.0mm cog
> spacing. They are just fundamentally not compatible with Shimano
> derailleurs due to differences in derailleur actuation ratio. They are not
> compatible with Campy derailleurs either.
>
> They are compatible with Sachs New Success derailleurs - work immediately
> and perfectly right out of the box.
>
> With regards to the claims that these are Shimano derailleur compatible, and
> there are two possibilities here:
>
> - Sachs changed their shifters and derailleurs later in the 1990s to be
> Shimano cable pull compatible, and I have the older version.
> - Or the folks that claim these shifters work with Shimano are simply used
> to a misadjusted drivetrain that constantly randomly jumps back and forth
> across the rear cogs

All that may be true in various applications. When Ergo were new (1991
for the 1992 year), we built Campagnolo bikes with Sachs Ergopower
levers using wide range Shimano cassettes with both Shimano and Sachs
rear derailleurs.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Tom Kunich]

"Dave Mayer" <dave4242@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zUfyj.28103$pM4.13654@pd7urf1no...
>
> I have a set of these shifters. They are not Shimano derailleur
> compatible, and it has nothing to do with the minor difference between 4.8
> and 5.0mm cog spacing. They are just fundamentally not compatible with
> Shimano derailleurs due to differences in derailleur actuation ratio.
> They are not compatible with Campy derailleurs either.

Several people I knew had these Sach's levers and used Shimano derailleurs
and cassettes. I think one of them used an 8-speed Sachs freewheel as well.

[mtb Dad]

On Mar 1, 9:40*am, Hank <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> On Mar 1, 4:16 am, icebike <thepyl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I seem to remember that Sachs had an 80's (or 90's) gruppo that had
> > Campagnolo-made brifters, but they were made to be compatible with
> > their own derailleurs and also with Shimano 8-speed systems. *Anyone
> > remember the name of the Sachs gruppo, and whether my memory is
> > correct regarding the Shimano compatibility?
>
> Campy 10-speed Ergopower brifters are compatible with otherwise
> Shimano 8-speed systems.

Really? Even 7402 dura ace derailleurs?

[Hank]

On Mar 1, 3:34 pm, mtb Dad <listerfar...@telus.net> wrote:
> On Mar 1, 9:40 am, Hank <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 1, 4:16 am, icebike <thepyl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I seem to remember that Sachs had an 80's (or 90's) gruppo that had
> > > Campagnolo-made brifters, but they were made to be compatible with
> > > their own derailleurs and also with Shimano 8-speed systems. Anyone
> > > remember the name of the Sachs gruppo, and whether my memory is
> > > correct regarding the Shimano compatibility?
>
> > Campy 10-speed Ergopower brifters are compatible with otherwise
> > Shimano 8-speed systems.
>
> Really? Even 7402 dura ace derailleurs?

Except those. :)

[icebike]

On Mar 1, 3:50*pm, Hank <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> On Mar 1, 3:34 pm, mtb Dad <listerfar...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 1, 9:40 am, Hank <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 1, 4:16 am, icebike <thepyl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I seem to remember that Sachs had an 80's (or 90's) gruppo that had
> > > > Campagnolo-made brifters, but they were made to be compatible with
> > > > their own derailleurs and also with Shimano 8-speed systems. *Anyone
> > > > remember the name of the Sachs gruppo, and whether my memory is
> > > > correct regarding the Shimano compatibility?
>
> > > Campy 10-speed Ergopower brifters are compatible with otherwise
> > > Shimano 8-speed systems.
>
> > Really? *Even 7402 dura ace derailleurs?
>
> Except those. :)

Aris sounds familiar - that must be it, thanks. I have a little
aluminium arm device which, when bolted on to the cable anchor bolt of
a 7402 rear derailleur, supposedly changes the cable pull enough that
the 7402 will work with other Shimano 8-speed brifters of the time. I
have never used it, though, and it is still sitting in my small parts
box. Anyone heard of these doo-dads and have tried it?