Spoke ID Question - did I get ripped off?

[D'ohBoy]

Hi, y'all,

Just built up a new set of wheels. I used (or thought I used) Sapim
CX-Rays on the front and NDS rear. I was inserting the QR's
preparatory to giving the new wheels a try this weekend and noticed on
the front, the stamp on the spokes near the elbow reads 'FAR'. At
first I thought it was poorly stamped on the one that I was looking at
but nope. ALL of the front spokes were stamped 'FAR'. I know that
Sapims are stamped 'SAP' at this same location. I checked the rear
NDS spokes, and yup, 'SAP' is stamped on the non-ovalized portion
near the elbow.

Anyone know what the heck kinda spokes I ended up with on the front?
Who is this 'FAR'?

Thanks!

D'ohBoy

[datakoll]

slowly he turned?

But the cunning and suspicious nature of which we nature far spoke, --
he who has committed many crimes, and fancies tetter and ' -111,1
truer than himself

try Tiawan

[Hank]

On Mar 3, 8:22*am, "D'ohBoy" <peteng...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi, y'all,
>
> Just built up a new set of wheels. *I used (or thought I used) Sapim
> CX-Rays on the front and NDS rear. * I was inserting the QR's
> preparatory to giving the new wheels a try this weekend and noticed on
> the front, the stamp on the spokes near the elbow reads 'FAR'. *At
> first I thought it was poorly stamped on the one that I was looking at
> but nope. *ALL of the front spokes were stamped 'FAR'. *I know that
> Sapims are stamped 'SAP' at this same location. *I checked the rear
> NDS *spokes, and yup, 'SAP' is stamped on the non-ovalized portion
> near the elbow.
>
> Anyone know what the heck kinda spokes I ended up with on the front?
> Who is this 'FAR'?
>
> Thanks!
>
> D'ohBoy

Betcha Dave Ornee knows.

[datakoll]

SUB? NOT Chinee?

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:Hf61MJWcCeAJ:business.com.tw/cop/com.asp%3Fid%3Djotfclluhuh74kf+FAR+BICYCLES+TAIWAN&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us

[D'ohBoy]

On Mar 3, 3:59 pm, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> SUB? NOT Chinee?
>
> http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:Hf61MJWcCeAJ:business.com.tw/cop...


Contacted the seller about my question. Depending on the outcome, I
may or may not indicate who they were (on-line seller).

D'ohBoy

[D'ohBoy]

On Mar 4, 11:24 am, "D'ohBoy" <peteng...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mar 3, 3:59 pm, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > SUB? NOT Chinee?
>
> >http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:Hf61MJWcCeAJ:business.com.tw/cop...
>
> Contacted the seller about my question. Depending on the outcome, I
> may or may not indicate who they were (on-line seller).
>
> D'ohBoy


So I contacted the vendor, Dave Ornee and Sapim.

The vendor says we got them from Sapim's US distributor.

Dave Ornee says I don't know, contact Sapim.

Wim at Sapim says those ARE NOT ours.

I think I got ripped off. Sent Sapim's response to the vendor. We'll
see what the vendor says now.

D'ohBoy

[daveornee]

D'ohBoy Wrote:
> On Mar 4, 11:24 am, "D'ohBoy" <peteng...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Mar 3, 3:59 pm, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > SUB? NOT Chinee?
> >
> >
> >http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:Hf61MJWcCeAJ:business.com.tw/cop...
> >
> > Contacted the seller about my question. Depending on the outcome, I
> > may or may not indicate who they were (on-line seller).
> >
> > D'ohBoy
>
>
> So I contacted the vendor, Dave Ornee and Sapim.
>
> The vendor says we got them from Sapim's US distributor.
>
> Dave Ornee says I don't know, contact Sapim.
>
> Wim at Sapim says those ARE NOT ours.
>
> I think I got ripped off. Sent Sapim's response to the vendor. We'll
> see what the vendor says now.
>
> D'ohBoy
I contacted my US Distributor for Sapim and they said that the CX-Ray
spokes they have say "SAP" on the "neck" near the elbow (J-bend). It
will be interesting to hear what your vendor says when you get a
response.


--
daveornee

[daveornee]

daveornee Wrote:
> I contacted my US Distributor for Sapim and they said that the CX-Ray
> spokes they have say "SAP" on the "neck" near the elbow (J-bend). It
> will be interesting to hear what your vendor says when you get a
> response.
Sapim makes OEM spokes for at least two wheel (an other bicycle related
products) manufacturers. One of those manufacturers is a very well
known full component line company in Italy; another is a US Company that
specializes in high Zoot wheels and other high Zoot bicycle products.
When those companies get their spoke products from Sapim they have
different stamp on the spoke neck. I guess it is possible that
somewhere in the distribution process the OEM spokes and the Sapim made
for normal distribution spokes were mixed.
I haven't personnally experienced the spoke OEM/Standard mix up, but I
did get some S.I.L.S. nipples in my standard Polyax nipple order.
S.I.L.S. nipples have the same Polyax profile outside so it would be
very easy to "mix" them up.


--
daveornee

[Hank]

On Mar 11, 9:56*am, daveornee <daveornee.364...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> daveornee Wrote:> I contacted my US Distributor for Sapim and they said that the CX-Ray
> > spokes they have say "SAP" on the "neck" near the elbow (J-bend). *It
> > will be interesting to hear what your vendor says when you get a
> > response.
>
> Sapim makes OEM spokes for at least two wheel (an other bicycle related
> products) manufacturers. *One of those manufacturers is a very well
> known full component line company in Italy; another is a US Company that
> specializes in high Zoot wheels and other high Zoot bicycle products. *
> When those companies get their spoke products from Sapim they have
> different stamp on the spoke neck. *I guess it is possible that
> somewhere in the distribution process the OEM spokes and the Sapim made
> for normal distribution spokes were mixed.
> I haven't personnally experienced the spoke OEM/Standard mix up, but I
> did get some S.I.L.S. nipples in my standard Polyax nipple order.
> S.I.L.S. nipples have the same Polyax profile outside so it would be
> very easy to "mix" them up.
>
> --
> daveornee

Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on the SILS nipples?

FWIW, I didn't like them. They made it much more difficult to bring
the wheel up to tension, both in terms of physical effort, and in
gauging the tension by feel. I'm pretty sure they made windup a
bigger problem, too. I rounded the flats on several of them. They're
probably a nice thing to have once the wheel's built, but while you're
building them, they're a PITA.

[daveornee]

Hank Wrote:
> On Mar 11, 9:56*am, daveornee <daveornee.364...@no-
> mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> > daveornee Wrote:> I contacted my US Distributor for Sapim and they
> said that the CX-Ray
> > > spokes they have say "SAP" on the "neck" near the elbow (J-bend).
> *It
> > > will be interesting to hear what your vendor says when you get a
> > > response.
> >
> > Sapim makes OEM spokes for at least two wheel (an other bicycle
> related
> > products) manufacturers. *One of those manufacturers is a very well
> > known full component line company in Italy; another is a US Company
> that
> > specializes in high Zoot wheels and other high Zoot bicycle products.
> *
> > When those companies get their spoke products from Sapim they have
> > different stamp on the spoke neck. *I guess it is possible that
> > somewhere in the distribution process the OEM spokes and the Sapim
> made
> > for normal distribution spokes were mixed.
> > I haven't personnally experienced the spoke OEM/Standard mix up, but
> I
> > did get some S.I.L.S. nipples in my standard Polyax nipple order.
> > S.I.L.S. nipples have the same Polyax profile outside so it would be
> > very easy to "mix" them up.
> >
> > --
> > daveornee
>
> Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on the SILS nipples?
>
> FWIW, I didn't like them. They made it much more difficult to bring
> the wheel up to tension, both in terms of physical effort, and in
> gauging the tension by feel. I'm pretty sure they made windup a
> bigger problem, too. I rounded the flats on several of them. They're
> probably a nice thing to have once the wheel's built, but while you're
> building them, they're a PITA.
At first I did not like the S.I.L.S. nipples. I guess my introduction
to them via the "mix"-up didn't help. In some applications I now find
them helpful, but I likely could get along without them with the
appropriate use of Linseed Oil.
They feel different because of the internals of the threading, but I
never experienced any rounding of the flats. I understand about the
windup issue, but I always take time to remove any residual windup in
all configurations so that potential detraction isn't an issue to me.
I now regularly use S.I.L.S. nipples in the left side of rear wheels.
I have "dedicated" a couple of columns in my nipple tray for S.I.L.S.
nipples.


--
daveornee

[D'ohBoy]

On Mar 11, 12:33 pm, Hank <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> On Mar 11, 9:56 am, daveornee <daveornee.364...@no-
>
>
>
> mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> > daveornee Wrote:> I contacted my US Distributor for Sapim and they said that the CX-Ray
> > > spokes they have say "SAP" on the "neck" near the elbow (J-bend). It
> > > will be interesting to hear what your vendor says when you get a
> > > response.
>
> > Sapim makes OEM spokes for at least two wheel (an other bicycle related
> > products) manufacturers. One of those manufacturers is a very well
> > known full component line company in Italy; another is a US Company that
> > specializes in high Zoot wheels and other high Zoot bicycle products.
> > When those companies get their spoke products from Sapim they have
> > different stamp on the spoke neck. I guess it is possible that
> > somewhere in the distribution process the OEM spokes and the Sapim made
> > for normal distribution spokes were mixed.
> > I haven't personnally experienced the spoke OEM/Standard mix up, but I
> > did get some S.I.L.S. nipples in my standard Polyax nipple order.
> > S.I.L.S. nipples have the same Polyax profile outside so it would be
> > very easy to "mix" them up.
>
> > --
> > daveornee
>
> Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on the SILS nipples?
>
> FWIW, I didn't like them. They made it much more difficult to bring
> the wheel up to tension, both in terms of physical effort, and in
> gauging the tension by feel. I'm pretty sure they made windup a
> bigger problem, too. I rounded the flats on several of them. They're
> probably a nice thing to have once the wheel's built, but while you're
> building them, they're a PITA.


Hi, Hank -

I don't have problems with the SILS - in fact, I like them quite a bit
as I am a fan of radial spoking (for the lazy wheel lacer). Have yet
to round one and have built about six pairs of wheels with them.
Windup is not an issue either, as I mark my spokes so as to detect the
windup and use my knowledge of the starting relationship of that mark
and the nipple position (as represented by the spoke wrench) to get
the final position to have zero windup. Bonus with the CX-Rays is
that you don't have to mark 'em, the oval gives you your indicator.

If you are rounding nipples, I suspect some combination of lack of
lube on the spoke threads/nipple shoulder, too high tension, and a
worn/mis-sized spoke wrench.

As for the question in my original post, the vendor is going to make
it right by sending me some fresh spokes as the response from the mfr
'you can be sure those aren't ours' was definitive.

D'ohBoy

[datakoll]

Findings here suggest superdupers near military bases stock higher
quality canned veggies than other superdupers as a direct relationship
as superdupers in nabs of decreasing wealth.

Consider the probs of cutter-shipper mixing spoke batchs both foreign
and domestic