Can this frame be saved?

[Ryan Cousineau]

So a few years ago I got a really good deal on a lightly used aluminum
frame that had a non-removable derailer hanger. It's an older Fetish
Cycles SAC, if anybody knows the model.

Last year that deal got worse when I dumped my rear derailer into the
rear wheel and I bent that derailer hanger.

Now that it's time to go racing, I'm looking at this pretty frame and
trying to figure out if I can revive it.

Notable points:

1) I was able to mostly unbend the hanger. I'm not even going to try
using it if I can't get it properly aligned. I'm dumb, but not that dumb.

2) how much structural integrity am I going to lose from "cold-setting"
this hanger? On one hand, a derailer hanger isn't a load-bearing frame
part. On the other hand, I don't want it to break off.

3) there's a crack on the outside of the derailer hanger. It's not that
deep, and I have a nutty idea I can file it out of existence. I'd trust
the remaining thickness of aluminum to hold the derailer, but I've
already bent it around a lot, thus losing some strength.

Even writing this, re-using the old derailer hanger sounds dubious to
me. Which brings me to...

4) is it possible to cut the old derailer hanger off, tap some holes,
and bolt a new hanger into place? It would presumably have to be a
fairly specialty item for saving Al frames like this one, since it would
have to bolt to the outside of the dropout and then S-bend under the
dropout to fit into the normal derailer hanger location.

I'm not doomed if the frame can't be saved (the older race bike frame is
still back in the shed) but I would like to re-use this thing.
Otherwise, I guess I buy an ENO hub and make a singlespeed out of it.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

[Hank]

On Mar 4, 7:47*pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So a few years ago I got a really good deal on a lightly used aluminum
> frame that had a non-removable derailer hanger. It's an older Fetish
> Cycles SAC, if anybody knows the model.
>
> Last year that deal got worse when I dumped my rear derailer into the
> rear wheel and I bent that derailer hanger.
>
> Now that it's time to go racing, I'm looking at this pretty frame and
> trying to figure out if I can revive it.
>
> Notable points:
>
> 1) I was able to mostly unbend the hanger. I'm not even going to try
> using it if I can't get it properly aligned. I'm dumb, but not that dumb.
>
> 2) how much structural integrity am I going to lose from "cold-setting"
> this hanger? On one hand, a derailer hanger isn't a load-bearing frame
> part. On the other hand, I don't want it to break off.
>
> 3) there's a crack on the outside of the derailer hanger. It's not that
> deep, and I have a nutty idea I can file it out of existence. I'd trust
> the remaining thickness of aluminum to hold the derailer, but I've
> already bent it around a lot, thus losing some strength.
>
> Even writing this, re-using the old derailer hanger sounds dubious to
> me. Which brings me to...
>
> 4) is it possible to cut the old derailer hanger off, tap some holes,
> and bolt a new hanger into place? It would presumably have to be a
> fairly specialty item for saving Al frames like this one, since it would
> have to bolt to the outside of the dropout and then S-bend under the
> dropout to fit into the normal derailer hanger location.
>
> I'm not doomed if the frame can't be saved (the older race bike frame is
> still back in the shed) but I would like to re-use this thing.
> Otherwise, I guess I buy an ENO hub and make a singlespeed out of it.
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau rcous...@gmail.comhttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> "My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook. *
> Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

A. Muzi's got pics on his site of doing this before. They actually
ground out a recess in the dropout for an off-the shelf model to fit.

http://www.yellowjersey.org/rlfix.html

[Leo Lichtman]

"Ryan Cousineau" wrote: clip) there's a crack on the outside of the
derailer hanger. It's not that
> deep, and I have a nutty idea I can file it out of existence.(clip)
is it possible to cut the old derailer hanger off, tap some holes,
> and bolt a new hanger into place?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
As you say, the deraileur hanger doesn't carry any of the frame stresses,
and it will be stronger with a smooth rounded groove than with a crack. You
could also consider having someone with a TIG welder run a bead where the
crack is. I would prefer that to drilling and tapping.

[dabac]

Ryan Cousineau Wrote:
> ..I dumped my rear derailer into the
> rear wheel and I bent that derailer hanger...I'm looking at this pretty
> frame and trying to figure out if I can revive it.

Easiest, but least elegant fix is to find an adaptor claw(has been
available from Harris Cyclery) which basically is a der hanger that is
clamped in place by the rear axle. Once you've gotten hold of an adapter
claw youi can simply hacksaw the bent one off.


--
dabac

[SMN]

"Ryan Cousineau" <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:rcousine-359281.19473304032008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]...
> So a few years ago I got a really good deal on a lightly used aluminum
> frame that had a non-removable derailer hanger. It's an older Fetish
> Cycles SAC, if anybody knows the model.
>
> Last year that deal got worse when I dumped my rear derailer into the
> rear wheel and I bent that derailer hanger.
>
> Now that it's time to go racing, I'm looking at this pretty frame and
> trying to figure out if I can revive it.
>
> Notable points:
>
> 1) I was able to mostly unbend the hanger. I'm not even going to try
> using it if I can't get it properly aligned. I'm dumb, but not that dumb.
>
> 2) how much structural integrity am I going to lose from "cold-setting"
> this hanger? On one hand, a derailer hanger isn't a load-bearing frame
> part. On the other hand, I don't want it to break off.
>
> 3) there's a crack on the outside of the derailer hanger. It's not that
> deep, and I have a nutty idea I can file it out of existence. I'd trust
> the remaining thickness of aluminum to hold the derailer, but I've
> already bent it around a lot, thus losing some strength.
>
> Even writing this, re-using the old derailer hanger sounds dubious to
> me. Which brings me to...
>
> 4) is it possible to cut the old derailer hanger off, tap some holes,
> and bolt a new hanger into place? It would presumably have to be a
> fairly specialty item for saving Al frames like this one, since it would
> have to bolt to the outside of the dropout and then S-bend under the
> dropout to fit into the normal derailer hanger location.
>
> I'm not doomed if the frame can't be saved (the older race bike frame is
> still back in the shed) but I would like to re-use this thing.
> Otherwise, I guess I buy an ENO hub and make a singlespeed out of it.
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
> "My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
> Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

I had that happen to me. sort of anyway, cause of the ice cold.
A bike mechanic at Cap's said if the drop out was horizontal you could fit a
derailleur holder in with the wheel but if it is straight down like mine it
would take $150 to fix. I left the bike for scrap. Just saved the seat
part, and wheels. oh and the eyelet for the derailleur was stripped with
not enough metal surrounding to re-thread it.
don't know it that helps : )

[Werehatrack]

On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 03:47:33 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com>
may have said:

>So a few years ago I got a really good deal on a lightly used aluminum
>frame that had a non-removable derailer hanger. It's an older Fetish
>Cycles SAC, if anybody knows the model.
>
>Last year that deal got worse when I dumped my rear derailer into the
>rear wheel and I bent that derailer hanger.
>
>Now that it's time to go racing, I'm looking at this pretty frame and
>trying to figure out if I can revive it.
>
>Notable points:
>
>1) I was able to mostly unbend the hanger. I'm not even going to try
>using it if I can't get it properly aligned. I'm dumb, but not that dumb.
>
>2) how much structural integrity am I going to lose from "cold-setting"
>this hanger? On one hand, a derailer hanger isn't a load-bearing frame
>part. On the other hand, I don't want it to break off.
>
>3) there's a crack on the outside of the derailer hanger. It's not that
>deep, and I have a nutty idea I can file it out of existence. I'd trust
>the remaining thickness of aluminum to hold the derailer, but I've
>already bent it around a lot, thus losing some strength.
>
>Even writing this, re-using the old derailer hanger sounds dubious to
>me. Which brings me to...
>
>4) is it possible to cut the old derailer hanger off, tap some holes,
>and bolt a new hanger into place? It would presumably have to be a
>fairly specialty item for saving Al frames like this one, since it would
>have to bolt to the outside of the dropout and then S-bend under the
>dropout to fit into the normal derailer hanger location.
>
>I'm not doomed if the frame can't be saved (the older race bike frame is
>still back in the shed) but I would like to re-use this thing.
>Otherwise, I guess I buy an ENO hub and make a singlespeed out of it.

You may discover that the der you're using has enough lateral swing
capacity to allow the employment of a universal der hanger bracket
that is intended to clamp under the nut of a non-QR axle; these are
easy to get. If that solution will work, it's probably the least
potentially troublesome...and it's certainly easy enough.



--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article
<60329e1b-8b51-41ed-bef8-069b6564fcdb@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Hank <hank@wirtznet.net> wrote:

> On Mar 4, 7:47*pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > So a few years ago I got a really good deal on a lightly used aluminum
> > frame that had a non-removable derailer hanger. It's an older Fetish
> > Cycles SAC, if anybody knows the model.
> >
> > Last year that deal got worse when I dumped my rear derailer into the
> > rear wheel and I bent that derailer hanger.
> >
> > Now that it's time to go racing, I'm looking at this pretty frame and
> > trying to figure out if I can revive it.
> >
> > Notable points:
> >
> > 1) I was able to mostly unbend the hanger. I'm not even going to try
> > using it if I can't get it properly aligned. I'm dumb, but not that dumb.
> >
> > 2) how much structural integrity am I going to lose from "cold-setting"
> > this hanger? On one hand, a derailer hanger isn't a load-bearing frame
> > part. On the other hand, I don't want it to break off.
> >
> > 3) there's a crack on the outside of the derailer hanger. It's not that
> > deep, and I have a nutty idea I can file it out of existence. I'd trust
> > the remaining thickness of aluminum to hold the derailer, but I've
> > already bent it around a lot, thus losing some strength.
> >
> > Even writing this, re-using the old derailer hanger sounds dubious to
> > me. Which brings me to...
> >
> > 4) is it possible to cut the old derailer hanger off, tap some holes,
> > and bolt a new hanger into place? It would presumably have to be a
> > fairly specialty item for saving Al frames like this one, since it would
> > have to bolt to the outside of the dropout and then S-bend under the
> > dropout to fit into the normal derailer hanger location.
> >
> > I'm not doomed if the frame can't be saved (the older race bike frame is
> > still back in the shed) but I would like to re-use this thing.
> > Otherwise, I guess I buy an ENO hub and make a singlespeed out of it.

> A. Muzi's got pics on his site of doing this before. They actually
> ground out a recess in the dropout for an off-the shelf model to fit.
>
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/rlfix.html

Excellent! That is pretty much exactly what my bike's hanger looked
like, both in style and in damage. This gives me great hope that I am no
further from a frame repair than a bit of measuring, a hanger, and a bit
of quality time with a Dremel.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

[M-gineering]

Hank wrote:
> On Mar 4, 7:47 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> So a few years ago I got a really good deal on a lightly used aluminum
>> frame that had a non-removable derailer hanger. It's an older Fetish
>> Cycles SAC, if anybody knows the model.
>>
>> Last year that deal got worse when I dumped my rear derailer into the
>> rear wheel and I bent that derailer hanger.
>>
>> Now that it's time to go racing, I'm looking at this pretty frame and
>> trying to figure out if I can revive it.
>>
>> Notable points:
>>
>> 1) I was able to mostly unbend the hanger. I'm not even going to try
>> using it if I can't get it properly aligned. I'm dumb, but not that dumb.
>>
>> 2) how much structural integrity am I going to lose from "cold-setting"
>> this hanger? On one hand, a derailer hanger isn't a load-bearing frame
>> part. On the other hand, I don't want it to break off.
>>
>> 3) there's a crack on the outside of the derailer hanger. It's not that
>> deep, and I have a nutty idea I can file it out of existence. I'd trust
>> the remaining thickness of aluminum to hold the derailer, but I've
>> already bent it around a lot, thus losing some strength.
>>
>> Even writing this, re-using the old derailer hanger sounds dubious to
>> me. Which brings me to...
>>
>> 4) is it possible to cut the old derailer hanger off, tap some holes,
>> and bolt a new hanger into place? It would presumably have to be a
>> fairly specialty item for saving Al frames like this one, since it would
>> have to bolt to the outside of the dropout and then S-bend under the
>> dropout to fit into the normal derailer hanger location.
>>
>> I'm not doomed if the frame can't be saved (the older race bike frame is
>> still back in the shed) but I would like to re-use this thing.
>> Otherwise, I guess I buy an ENO hub and make a singlespeed out of it.


bend the ear back. It is not a highly strees part until something stupid
happens. If bending it back remains tough (if it gets easier you've got
a crack) restore the thread with an insert
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

[RicodJour]

On Mar 5, 2:48 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hank <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
> >http://www.yellowjersey.org/rlfix.html
>
> Excellent! That is pretty much exactly what my bike's hanger looked
> like, both in style and in damage. This gives me great hope that I am no
> further from a frame repair than a bit of measuring, a hanger, and a bit
> of quality time with a Dremel.

Uh oh! LiveDRUNK with a Dremel. Better stock up on the Bailey's and
Band-Aids. ;)

R

[Hank]

On Mar 5, 1:36 am, dabac <dabac.35s...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com>
wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau Wrote:
>
> > ..I dumped my rear derailer into the
> > rear wheel and I bent that derailer hanger...I'm looking at this pretty
> > frame and trying to figure out if I can revive it.
>
> Easiest, but least elegant fix is to find an adaptor claw(has been
> available from Harris Cyclery) which basically is a der hanger that is
> clamped in place by the rear axle. Once you've gotten hold of an adapter
> claw youi can simply hacksaw the bent one off.
>
> --
> dabac

Not to be a naysayer, but I don't know of any adapter claws that work
on frames with vertical dropouts, as nearly all aluminum frames are.

[_]

On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 07:12:21 -0800 (PST), Hank wrote:

> On Mar 5, 1:36 am, dabac <dabac.35s...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com>
> wrote:
>> Ryan Cousineau Wrote:
>>
>>> ..I dumped my rear derailer into the
>>> rear wheel and I bent that derailer hanger...I'm looking at this pretty
>>> frame and trying to figure out if I can revive it.
>>
>> Easiest, but least elegant fix is to find an adaptor claw(has been
>> available from Harris Cyclery) which basically is a der hanger that is
>> clamped in place by the rear axle. Once you've gotten hold of an adapter
>> claw youi can simply hacksaw the bent one off.
>>
>> --
>> dabac
>
> Not to be a naysayer, but I don't know of any adapter claws that work
> on frames with vertical dropouts, as nearly all aluminum frames are.

Trivial to make/adapt one.

Or try Shimano sh-43520/sh-43526.

[A Muzi]

>> Ryan Cousineau Wrote:
>>> ..I dumped my rear derailer into the
>>> rear wheel and I bent that derailer hanger...I'm looking at this pretty
>>> frame and trying to figure out if I can revive it.

> dabac <dabac.35s...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>> Easiest, but least elegant fix is to find an adaptor claw(has been
>> available from Harris Cyclery) which basically is a der hanger that is
>> clamped in place by the rear axle. Once you've gotten hold of an adapter
>> claw youi can simply hacksaw the bent one off.

Hank wrote:
> Not to be a naysayer, but I don't know of any adapter claws that work
> on frames with vertical dropouts, as nearly all aluminum frames are.

I think this is merely a semantic difference; Hank probably meant the
stamped-steel style, dabac likely intended one of these:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/enz.html
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Hank]

On Mar 5, 7:19*am, _ <jtayNOSPAM...@hfDONTSENDMESPAMx.andara.com>
wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 07:12:21 -0800 (PST), Hank wrote:
> > On Mar 5, 1:36 am, dabac <dabac.35s...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com>
> > wrote:
> >> Ryan Cousineau Wrote:
>
> >>> *..I dumped my rear derailer into the
> >>> rear wheel and I bent that derailer hanger...I'm looking at this pretty
> >>> frame and trying to figure out if I can revive it.
>
> >> Easiest, but least elegant fix is to find an adaptor claw(has been
> >> available from Harris Cyclery) which basically is a der hanger that is
> >> clamped in place by the rear axle. Once you've gotten hold of an adapter
> >> claw youi can simply hacksaw the bent one off.
>
> >> --
> >> dabac
>
> > Not to be a naysayer, but I don't know of any adapter claws that work
> > on frames with vertical dropouts, as nearly all aluminum frames are.
>
> Trivial to make/adapt one.


Trivial? Sorry, I left my mill and lathe in my other pants.

[_]

On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:13:20 -0800 (PST), Hank wrote:

> On Mar 5, 7:19*am, _ <jtayNOSPAM...@hfDONTSENDMESPAMx.andara.com>
> wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 07:12:21 -0800 (PST), Hank wrote:
>>> On Mar 5, 1:36 am, dabac <dabac.35s...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Ryan Cousineau Wrote:
>>
>>>>> *..I dumped my rear derailer into the
>>>>> rear wheel and I bent that derailer hanger...I'm looking at this pretty
>>>>> frame and trying to figure out if I can revive it.
>>
>>>> Easiest, but least elegant fix is to find an adaptor claw(has been
>>>> available from Harris Cyclery) which basically is a der hanger that is
>>>> clamped in place by the rear axle. Once you've gotten hold of an adapter
>>>> claw youi can simply hacksaw the bent one off.
>>
>>>> --
>>>> dabac
>>
>>> Not to be a naysayer, but I don't know of any adapter claws that work
>>> on frames with vertical dropouts, as nearly all aluminum frames are.
>>
>> Trivial to make/adapt one.
>
>
> Trivial? Sorry, I left my mill and lathe in my other pants.

It's a poor workman who blames his (lack of) tools.

A hacksaw, hand-drill, and file will suffice. Should probably take less
than an hour.

[rcousine@gmail.com]

On Mar 5, 3:58 pm, RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 5, 2:48 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hank <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
> > >http://www.yellowjersey.org/rlfix.html
>
> > Excellent! That is pretty much exactly what my bike's hanger looked
> > like, both in style and in damage. This gives me great hope that I am no
> > further from a frame repair than a bit of measuring, a hanger, and a bit
> > of quality time with a Dremel.
>
> Uh oh! LiveDRUNK with a Dremel. Better stock up on the Bailey's and
> Band-Aids. ;)
>
> R

I've told you before, it's LIVEDRUNK. Just like LIVESTRONG, only
DRUNKer.

LIVEDRUNK is all out of Bailey's right now, but has a nice bottle of
Warre's Warrior in the "medicine" cabinet.

If this doesn't work out, there's always AA and the Pinarello,

[RicodJour]

On Mar 5, 7:08 pm, "rcous...@gmail.com" <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 5, 3:58 pm, RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 5, 2:48 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Hank <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
> > > >http://www.yellowjersey.org/rlfix.html
>
> > > Excellent! That is pretty much exactly what my bike's hanger looked
> > > like, both in style and in damage. This gives me great hope that I am no
> > > further from a frame repair than a bit of measuring, a hanger, and a bit
> > > of quality time with a Dremel.
>
> > Uh oh! LiveDRUNK with a Dremel. Better stock up on the Bailey's and
> > Band-Aids. ;)
>
>
> I've told you before, it's LIVEDRUNK. Just like LIVESTRONG, only
> DRUNKer.
>
> LIVEDRUNK is all out of Bailey's right now, but has a nice bottle of
> Warre's Warrior in the "medicine" cabinet.
>
> If this doesn't work out, there's always AA and the Pinarello,

Your impeccable spelling leads me to believe that you're not taking
LIVEDRUNK very seriously. Then again, you're perfectionism does jibe
with alcoholic tendencies.

It's all about the bike...and the bottle - which would be a great name
for a pub - The Bike and Bottle.

R