Customer abuse @ Performance of Fair Oaks CA

[Rex Kerr]

I know that you don't go to Performance Bike for their great customer
service, you go for the low prices and convenient hours. That said, you
also don't go with the expectation of being mistreated!!

My negative outlook on Performance started about six months ago when I
went there with a friend to help choose a road bike. A specific Fuji
bike was in the right price range and appealed on many levels. We had
the bike out on the floor and she was looking at I was evaluating the
fit. I held the wheel between my knees and the handlebars and had her
sit on the bike while I evaluated the fit. While we were doing this a
manager comes up and decides to take over. Without warning he forces
himself between me and bike, nearly causing her to fall off! This upset
me, but I continued anyhow. Later, when we were discussing the reach and
the possibility of a handlebar swap he started moving the saddle
forward. I told him that's not how you adjust reach, but he got angry
and said "just wait, I'll show you!" I finally settled on the 47cm
frame even though he was suggesting the 44. Interestingly, Fuji's site
suggests either the 47 or 50 for her height! Idiots...

So... last night I'm there with a neighbor. Everything is going fine at
first. I pull out some bikes just to look them over with little concern
about their size at first. My neighbor, being excited, is sitting on
all of them, but I ignore it since that's not what I'm looking at
anyhow. We're down to the last bike before we decide which one we
should have him test ride when the manager (a different manager) comes
over and says that the bike is too big (duh, thanks). I start to pull
out the next smaller size when he immediately takes over and doesn't
allow me to see how that size fits. Deciding to avoid a confrontation I
went away and started browsing the rest of the store while he gave his
advice. Later, my neighbor calls me over to show me what they'd settled
on. When I got there he said that this was the right size frame. I
nearly laughed. It had a traditional geometry (horizontal top tube) so
you'd go with a larger seat tube length than with a compact geometry
frame. That said, he'd put my almost 6' neighbor on a 54cm frame! I
said something about the bike being far too small, that he was sitting
nearly upright, far too cramped in the top tube, and besides the saddle
was far too low. He said "no, the seat is in the ideal position! See
how his top leg is horizontal, that's ideal!" Top leg? Who looks at
that? Then he went on about how the bike had a relaxed top tube
geometry (huh? Relaxed head angle, relaxed seat angle, etc, but top
tube?). I said no, that the saddle was at least 4cm too low! He
started getting angry and barked "Fine, the bike is too small!" and
stomped off. At the desk I could see him telling the other people
something or other while staring at us.

There was more, but that's the general gist of the experience. Amazing.
I'm seriously considering contacting their corporate number, though I
expect that they won't have much concern.

For now, I'm done with Performance.
--
Work and recreation are not often effected at the same time.
One using a bicycle in business makes an exception to the rule.
- Dr. Edgar H. Earl, Rochester. (~1892)

[bigjimpack@gmail.com]

How many people get sold the wrong size bike at a "real"LBS? Lots.
Your friends are lucky to have you to go with them and save them from
making a bad purchase. Performance is great for prices and selection-
far better than 99% of LBS's here in NJ. Like Sym's says - an
educated consumer is our best customer. At least Performance has a
variety of sizes so you can narrow it down. Many LBS's have one odd
size and say "we can order it" and expect you to buy s bike that may
not fit sight unseen. I would be thankful if a Performance opened
nearby.

On Mar 10, 3:52*pm, Rex Kerr <rexk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I know that you don't go to Performance Bike for their great customer
> service, you go for the low prices and convenient hours. *That said, you
> also don't go with the expectation of being mistreated!!
>
> My negative outlook on Performance started about six months ago when I
> went there with a friend to help choose a road bike. *A specific Fuji
> bike was in the right price range and appealed on many levels. *We had
> the bike out on the floor and she was looking at I was evaluating the
> fit. *I held the wheel between my knees and the handlebars and had her
> sit on the bike while I evaluated the fit. *While we were doing this a
> manager comes up and decides to take over. *Without warning he forces
> himself between me and bike, nearly causing her to fall off! *This upset
> me, but I continued anyhow. Later, when we were discussing the reach and
> the possibility of a handlebar swap he started moving the saddle
> forward. I told him that's not how you adjust reach, but he got angry
> and said "just wait, I'll show you!" *I finally settled on the 47cm
> frame even though he was suggesting the 44. *Interestingly, Fuji's site
> suggests either the 47 or 50 for her height! *Idiots...
>
> So... last night I'm there with a neighbor. *Everything is going fine at
> first. *I pull out some bikes just to look them over with little concern
> about their size at first. *My neighbor, being excited, is sitting on
> all of them, but I ignore it since that's not what I'm looking at
> anyhow. *We're down to the last bike before we decide which one we
> should have him test ride when the manager (a different manager) comes
> over and says that the bike is too big (duh, thanks). *I start to pull
> out the next smaller size when he immediately takes over and doesn't
> allow me to see how that size fits. *Deciding to avoid a confrontation I
> went away and started browsing the rest of the store while he gave his
> advice. *Later, my neighbor calls me over to show me what they'd settled
> on. *When I got there he said that this was the right size frame. *I
> nearly laughed. *It had a traditional geometry (horizontal top tube) so
> you'd go with a larger seat tube length than with a compact geometry
> frame. * That said, he'd put my almost 6' neighbor on a 54cm frame! *I
> said something about the bike being far too small, that he was sitting
> nearly upright, far too cramped in the top tube, and besides the saddle
> was far too low. *He said "no, the seat is in the ideal position! *See
> how his top leg is horizontal, that's ideal!" Top leg? *Who looks at
> that? *Then he went on about how the bike had a relaxed top tube
> geometry (huh? Relaxed head angle, relaxed seat angle, etc, but top
> tube?). *I said no, that the saddle was at least 4cm too low! *He
> started getting angry and barked "Fine, the bike is too small!" and
> stomped off. *At the desk I could see him telling the other people
> something or other while staring at us.
>
> There was more, but that's the general gist of the experience. *Amazing.
> * I'm seriously considering contacting their corporate number, though I
> expect that they won't have much concern.
>
> For now, I'm done with Performance.
> --
> Work and recreation are not often effected at the same time.
> One using a bicycle in business makes an exception to the rule.
> * * * *- Dr. Edgar H. Earl, Rochester. *(~1892)

[Rex Kerr]

Rex Kerr wrote:
> My negative outlook on Performance started about six months ago when I

I forgot to write about another incident...

A coworker took his bike there to have the drop bars replaced with tri
bars with barend shifters on the end of the aero bars. The first time
that he rode it in to the office I was looking at it and something
seemed wrong. I noticed that the rear shifter was on the left aero bar.
I commented that they were on the wrong hands, but you could get used
to that. Looking closer I noticed that it was much worse (which wasn't
immediately obvious due to the cables running inside of the frame)...
The front shifter (the friction one) was controlling the r-der, and the
rear shifter (the indexed one) was controlling the f-der!! They'd
installed them completely backwards!

Didn't the installer wonder why he didn't have to trim the der
adjustment? Why he wasn't getting indexing? Why was the front one
clicking into positions, but not the rear? How could you miss that?

--
Work and recreation are not often effected at the same time.
One using a bicycle in business makes an exception to the rule.
- Dr. Edgar H. Earl, Rochester. (~1892)

[Pat]

Report them both. Don't you think Performance should know about this sort of
thing--otherwise, how are they going to fix it? Besides, you could be
helping protect other customers in the future.

[Matt O'Toole]

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:52:07 -0700, Rex Kerr wrote:

> I know that you don't go to Performance Bike for their great customer
> service, you go for the low prices and convenient hours. That said, you
> also don't go with the expectation of being mistreated!!

I don't know why you shouldn't expect great customer service. It's not as
if independent shops have a monopoly on that. In fact they're pretty
haphazard. One should expect a chain to have some uniformity and quality
control, but in my experience Performance runs the same gamut as
independents. The old Performance store in Irvine, CA, was the best LBS
in Orange County for awhile. But some others weren't so great. It all
comes down to the individuals working there.

> I'm seriously considering contacting their corporate number, though I
> expect that they won't have much concern.

I don't know why you wouldn't. They're the ones who can do something
about it. There's not much we here can do.

OTOH, I've stopped doing this. I figure if they can't get their act
together, it's not my job to help them figure out how.

Matt O.

[Rex Kerr]

bigjimpack@gmail.com wrote:
> How many people get sold the wrong size bike at a "real"LBS? Lots.

Oh, I know that... but it still doesn't excuse Performance either.

I know that 'real' LBSs do that too because my first LBS bike was far
too small. Even with an extra long seatpost I couldn't get enough leg
extension and finally quit riding the bike. The problem there was that
I actually wanted to buy the next size up (that he had in stock), but he
convinced me that I wanted the smaller one! Prior to that I'd only
ridden dept store bikes, one size fits none, so I didn't know any better.

-Rex

--
Work and recreation are not often effected at the same time.
One using a bicycle in business makes an exception to the rule.
- Dr. Edgar H. Earl, Rochester. (~1892)

[Leo Lichtman]

Let me put in a good word for my favorite Performance store, in San Rafael,
CA. They have everything I could possibly want, and it's well displayed, so
you can browse without having to deal with a counter person on each and
every item. When I have needed help, I have found their staff to be
extremely knowledgeable and helpful. They are a few blocks from Recyclery,
a nonprofit which sells used donated stuff--I have had them refer me there
when it was appropriate.

[EasyCompany]

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 13:29:02 -0700, Rex Kerr <rexkerr@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Rex Kerr wrote:
>> My negative outlook on Performance started about six months ago when I
>
>I forgot to write about another incident...
>
>A coworker took his bike there to have the drop bars replaced with tri
>bars with barend shifters on the end of the aero bars. The first time
>that he rode it in to the office I was looking at it and something
>seemed wrong. I noticed that the rear shifter was on the left aero bar.
> I commented that they were on the wrong hands, but you could get used
>to that. Looking closer I noticed that it was much worse (which wasn't
>immediately obvious due to the cables running inside of the frame)...
>The front shifter (the friction one) was controlling the r-der, and the
>rear shifter (the indexed one) was controlling the f-der!! They'd
>installed them completely backwards!
>
>Didn't the installer wonder why he didn't have to trim the der
>adjustment? Why he wasn't getting indexing? Why was the front one
>clicking into positions, but not the rear? How could you miss that?

Sorry to hear that happened to you.

My performance guys have all been great and one of the wrenches is now
my personal friend.

One day I needed my pedal removed and had the bike out by my car in
the parking lot and the wrench came out to the parking lot with the
pedal removal tool and loosened it for me so I didn't even have to
bring it into the store. I brought him a DVD I burned because he did
that.

So while you had a bad experience, not all Performance employees are
like that.

Again, yours are bad, pushy, unknowledgeable and lacking experience.
No excuse for that. I wouldn't let anyone 'push me out of the way'.
That's just rude and more, it's bording on hostile. I'd report him.

Good luck.

[alanstew@sbcglobal.net]

On Mar 10, 12:29*pm, Rex Kerr <rexk...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Didn't the installer wonder why he didn't have to trim the der
> adjustment? *Why he wasn't getting indexing? *Why was the front one
> clicking into positions, but not the rear? *How could you miss that?

Cause he was probably too busy texting his GF or BFF or some such
nonsense.

To me, it's like this:
Want good Mexican food? Go where wife or son must translate, and even
though they can't understand me, they're still nice to me and serve me
really good food. (In other words, LBS)
Want fill belly quickly with many calories, much grease, and half the
flavor and the price? Taco Bell. (In other words, Performance.)

ABS

[Zoot Katz]

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:51:19 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
<l.lichtman@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>Let me put in a good word for my favorite Performance store, in San Rafael,
>CA. They have everything I could possibly want, and it's well displayed, so
>you can browse without having to deal with a counter person on each and
>every item. When I have needed help, I have found their staff to be
>extremely knowledgeable and helpful. They are a few blocks from Recyclery,
>a nonprofit which sells used donated stuff--I have had them refer me there
>when it was appropriate.
>
An independent LBS referred me to our local community bike shop when
I needed a pedal dust cover. That was shortly after I'd got back on
the bike from a 14 year hiatus.

What hooked me is the smell of a real bike shop. The aroma of the
first LBS I'd visited in fourteen years (to buy a Razor kick-scooter
for some crazy inflated price) brought a flood of youthful memories
rushing back to me.

When I went into a second LBS a couple months later looking for Razor
replacement wheels, the smell hit me again.

The fact that the salesperson was a beautiful and knowledgable
mountain-biking woman really brought me into the new century. A few
weeks later, coasting home on the Razor. it dawned on me that I could
be riding a bike.

My two. stored, now classic, Euro-equipped bikes just needed to be
overhauled. When I rode the Witcomb into the shop looking for a
Lyotard dust-cap the owner, who has long since become a personal
friend and fellow "gang member", had never before seen Cam bar-cons.
He recommended OCB! where I fell in love/lust with the lesbian
mechanic manager*. After I'd found one, and only one, complete
Lyotard #23 Marcel Berthet pedal exactly like mine, but with a dust
cap for only $2.50, it became _my_ LBS.

The unmistakable "bike shop aroma" was most prevalent at OCB! and I
was hooked. Its existence has had more to do with my "re-birth" than
any branch of a seemingly impersonal chain store could have had.

Follow your nose.

*We later danced and drank together a few times. She once even
offered to show me more of her tattoos! I still love her though
she's moved on to a "real job".
--
zk

[Camilo]

> I brought him a DVD I burned because he did that.

You should have stolen him some bike schwag instead.

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

| The unmistakable "bike shop aroma" was most prevalent at OCB! and I
| was hooked. Its existence has had more to do with my "re-birth" than
| any branch of a seemingly impersonal chain store could have had.

Funny thing is, we (IBD/LBS owners) pay $$$ to attend seminars that tell us
we should do what we can to get rid of that smell. Cover it up by having
certain types of coffee brewing with a very strong aroma, that sort of
thing. We're told that "bike shop smell" puts people off.

I gave the idea some thought, maybe 7 or 8 years ago. Then they told us
again, maybe 5 years ago, and I gave it some more thought. But maybe 3 years
ago I decided, after being away from the shop for a couple weeks in France,
I *liked* that smell. It said "bikes" to me. And if that scares off a
certain type of customer, well, maybe that's not the customer we should be
going after in the first place.

There are different types of bike shops, for different types of people.
There isn't a right or wrong style... the best style is one that the owner
and local culture find comfortable and not forced. That could mean a
high-brow Nieman Marcus kind of presentation for one locale, and something
closer to Grand Auto elsewhere. If each is doing its best to take care of
their customers, everything works out in the end.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Zoot Katz" <zootkatz@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:svmbt391abgfc38i80rh3k8t7bv6n6afqe@4ax.com...
| On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:51:19 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
| <l.lichtman@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
|
| >Let me put in a good word for my favorite Performance store, in San
Rafael,
| >CA. They have everything I could possibly want, and it's well displayed,
so
| >you can browse without having to deal with a counter person on each and
| >every item. When I have needed help, I have found their staff to be
| >extremely knowledgeable and helpful. They are a few blocks from
Recyclery,
| >a nonprofit which sells used donated stuff--I have had them refer me
there
| >when it was appropriate.
| >
| An independent LBS referred me to our local community bike shop when
| I needed a pedal dust cover. That was shortly after I'd got back on
| the bike from a 14 year hiatus.
|
| What hooked me is the smell of a real bike shop. The aroma of the
| first LBS I'd visited in fourteen years (to buy a Razor kick-scooter
| for some crazy inflated price) brought a flood of youthful memories
| rushing back to me.
|
| When I went into a second LBS a couple months later looking for Razor
| replacement wheels, the smell hit me again.
|
| The fact that the salesperson was a beautiful and knowledgable
| mountain-biking woman really brought me into the new century. A few
| weeks later, coasting home on the Razor. it dawned on me that I could
| be riding a bike.
|
| My two. stored, now classic, Euro-equipped bikes just needed to be
| overhauled. When I rode the Witcomb into the shop looking for a
| Lyotard dust-cap the owner, who has long since become a personal
| friend and fellow "gang member", had never before seen Cam bar-cons.
| He recommended OCB! where I fell in love/lust with the lesbian
| mechanic manager*. After I'd found one, and only one, complete
| Lyotard #23 Marcel Berthet pedal exactly like mine, but with a dust
| cap for only $2.50, it became _my_ LBS.
|
| The unmistakable "bike shop aroma" was most prevalent at OCB! and I
| was hooked. Its existence has had more to do with my "re-birth" than
| any branch of a seemingly impersonal chain store could have had.
|
| Follow your nose.
|
| *We later danced and drank together a few times. She once even
| offered to show me more of her tattoos! I still love her though
| she's moved on to a "real job".
| --
| zk

[Rex Kerr]

Zoot Katz wrote:
> What hooked me is the smell of a real bike shop. The aroma of the
> first LBS I'd visited in fourteen years (to buy a Razor kick-scooter
> for some crazy inflated price) brought a flood of youthful memories
> rushing back to me.

Thanks for the story... it was interesting.

In the last place I lived there was an LBS that I really liked that I
went to frequently. It was in the downtown area, had nice long hours,
awesome service, a shop cat, the works... About a year before I left
they purchased the building that Safeway had recently moved out of and
expanded greatly (with more non-bike sporting goods). When they moved,
they lost the feeling. I basically stopped shopping there, it just
didn't feel right.

Unfortunately I haven't since found an LBS that I like as much where I
live now. There's one shop that is good, though I just haven't gotten
"into" it like before. It's also inconvenient for me to go by there.

-Rex

--
Work and recreation are not often effected at the same time.
One using a bicycle in business makes an exception to the rule.
- Dr. Edgar H. Earl, Rochester. (~1892)

[ZBicyclist]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
> I gave the idea some thought, maybe 7 or 8 years ago. Then they told
> us again, maybe 5 years ago, and I gave it some more thought. But
> maybe 3 years ago I decided, after being away from the shop for a
> couple weeks in France, I *liked* that smell. It said "bikes" to me.

It's not so much that I like the smell, as the fact that I associate that
smell with a shop that does a lot of service work. I would think a shop that
didn't smell that way wasn't doing much service work -- which might mean
they didn't do it well.

[Zoot Katz]

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 04:54:04 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
<mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>| The unmistakable "bike shop aroma" was most prevalent at OCB! and I
>| was hooked. Its existence has had more to do with my "re-birth" than
>| any branch of a seemingly impersonal chain store could have had.
>
>Funny thing is, we (IBD/LBS owners) pay $$$ to attend seminars that tell us
>we should do what we can to get rid of that smell. Cover it up by having
>certain types of coffee brewing with a very strong aroma, that sort of
>thing. We're told that "bike shop smell" puts people off.
>
hmmm, a strong coffee smell is to me a part of the real bike shop
aroma. So is wet dog or hint of cat. I'd stay the hell out of a shop
where I smelled snakes and epoxy or fiberglass resin.

It think it's the fishy component , like tire air, that people find
objectionable.

>I gave the idea some thought, maybe 7 or 8 years ago. Then they told us
>again, maybe 5 years ago, and I gave it some more thought. But maybe 3 years
>ago I decided, after being away from the shop for a couple weeks in France,
>I *liked* that smell. It said "bikes" to me. And if that scares off a
>certain type of customer, well, maybe that's not the customer we should be
>going after in the first place.
>
OCB! smelled "off" for awhile after moving around the corner, in the
same building, to a larger store front on Main St. The new tile,
anti-fatigue mats, varnish and paint stench persisted for almost a
year until its second Halloween beer bath. Now it's back to smelling
like a "real bike shop", coffee an all.

>There are different types of bike shops, for different types of people.
>There isn't a right or wrong style... the best style is one that the owner
>and local culture find comfortable and not forced. That could mean a
>high-brow Nieman Marcus kind of presentation for one locale, and something
>closer to Grand Auto elsewhere. If each is doing its best to take care of
>their customers, everything works out in the end.

Neither Hermes, Canadian Tire, nor Costco smell like a bike shop. Nor
do they employ people who "speak bike", yet many people do buy bikes
at those places despite their inability to have them serviced there
too. Those people are most likely consumers, not cyclists.

There are essential oils that reduce anxiety. Those might be
beneficial on the sales floor to subtly effect clients. But, it
might be regarded like a used car salesman spraying the inside of a
lemon with that unmistakable new-car stench.
--
zk

[Kenny]

When it comes to bike fit I keep my opinions to myself. I always say
if it feels comfortable and you like it, go for it. After all, it
takes time in the saddle and maybe some fiddling with stem lengths and
seat positions to find that comfort zone. One of my riding buddies
rides a 57cm frame with a 120mm stem and he's only 5' 6". He's totally
stretched out, but he likes it that way.

[EasyCompany]

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:44:12 -0700 (PDT), Kenny <Postoasted@gmail.com>
wrote:

>When it comes to bike fit I keep my opinions to myself. I always say
>if it feels comfortable and you like it, go for it. After all, it
>takes time in the saddle and maybe some fiddling with stem lengths and
>seat positions to find that comfort zone. One of my riding buddies
>rides a 57cm frame with a 120mm stem and he's only 5' 6". He's totally
>stretched out, but he likes it that way.

I've thought about that, too. One way might be that if you find a bike
that seems to just fit perfectly, then get out the tape measure and
check some of the parameters...

I test rode a Specialized Carbon (forget which one), and it really
felt nice, and just the test ride around the parking lot was just
different, joyful, and the bike seemed to just 'pop'.

I got lured away by a better deal, but I still think about that bike.
:)

[Tom Sherman]

Zoot Katz wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 04:54:04 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>> | The unmistakable "bike shop aroma" was most prevalent at OCB! and I
>> | was hooked. Its existence has had more to do with my "re-birth" than
>> | any branch of a seemingly impersonal chain store could have had.
>>
>> Funny thing is, we (IBD/LBS owners) pay $$$ to attend seminars that tell us
>> we should do what we can to get rid of that smell. Cover it up by having
>> certain types of coffee brewing with a very strong aroma, that sort of
>> thing. We're told that "bike shop smell" puts people off.
>>
> hmmm, a strong coffee smell is to me a part of the real bike shop
> aroma. So is wet dog or hint of cat. I'd stay the hell out of a shop
> where I smelled snakes and epoxy or fiberglass resin.
> [...]

Maybe they are making velomobile fairings on the side, or repairing
canoes and kayaks on the side. Nothing wrong with those activities.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

[EasyCompany]

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:02:57 -0700 (PDT), Camilo
<campascual@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> I brought him a DVD I burned because he did that.

Mountain stages of the 2004 OLN broadcast of the TdF.

>You should have stolen him some bike schwag instead.
>

Like that gang of hell's angels stole your wife's virginity?