Beeping cars... [Archive] - Triangle Cycling

DennisTheBald

01-04-1970, 05:24 AM

On Mar 12, 3:15 pm, "ccar...@new.rr.com" <ccar...@new.rr.com> wrote:
> Hello,
....
> What are your opinions on this. Am I the only one annoyed by it?
>
> Cullen Carter

Motorists in general tend to annoy me, but I'm old and crabby. (you
kids get outta here!)

I wouldn't worry too much about what motorists think, if they had half
a brain they wouldn't be motorists now would they. Yes, they are an
annoying lot.

I remember one morning, at least a decade ago, I was trying a new
route to work and I was going down Campbell for a couple blocks... the
traffic was very heavy, just as I was fixin' to turn right off of the
3-laner onto a more pleasant street some yahoo gives me the horn - to
which I reply with the bird. Then I notice that it is a familiar
looking vehicle, "isn't that Alex' dad?" I ponder all the way down the
hill - it seemed reasonable as I'm only about 4 miles from home. But
that was years ago, back when I just waved my finger at 'em... Now I'm
much more certain of my targets before I let fly, but then again I'm
packing a heavier load too.

I'm sure everyone has had one like this gal out in Plano way back when
I worked at EDS: On a two lane road (two lanes each direction with a
median and yes, I'm taking one of 'em:-) with nobody but her an' me
she comes up behind me and honks, I wave (all the fingers)... she
honks again, I wave again, this cycle repeats like four times, a car
passes us both in the other lane... I slow to a crawl and start to
weave like a drunk in a mustang, finally she moves over and goes
around. She's on something stronger than mother's little helper to
get this whacked out, but ya can't shoot 'em just for honking no
matter how much better society would be without them.

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

01-04-1970, 05:24 AM

Cullen Carter wrote:

> I love it [sarcasm] when a motorist beeps their horn to alert me of
> their presence. I mean, this is a road, I am used to cycling in
> traffic! But thanks for the warning;) !!!

> What are your opinions on this. Am I the only one annoyed by it?

It's condescending and insulting in most events, unless it is truly a
tap on the horn giving a minimal bip rather than the irate rude one
second blast that suggests the bicyclist should evaporate.

I find that most auto horns are sounded when I ride with riders who
insist they have the right to ride in the traffic lane even when there
is an adequate shoulder with a good surface. That behaviors is as
obvious to drivers of motor vehicles as the one second honk is to
bicyclists. It's brash body language that sends unpleasant massages.

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/6.1.html

Jobst Brandt

Bob

01-04-1970, 05:24 AM

On Mar 12, 4:15*pm, "ccar...@new.rr.com" <ccar...@new.rr.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I love it [sarcasm] when a motorist beeps thier horn to alert me of
> thier presence. I mean, this is a road, I am used to cycling in
> traffic! But thanks for the warning;) !!!
>
> What are your opinions on this. Am I the only one annoyed by it?
>
> Cullen Carter

A short beep to alert me to the presence of overtaking traffic never
bothers me. I've beeped like that to warn cyclists when I've been
driving and about to overtake them. It really isn't any different than
a cyclist on a MUP ringing a bell to warn other path users. The long
horn blast that says, "Get out of my way", is another story and would
be akin to a MUP cyclist using an airhorn to clear the path in front
of them- totally unnecessary and downright rude.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

raamman@gmail.com

01-04-1970, 05:24 AM

On Mar 12, 4:28*pm, neil0...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Mar 12, 2:15 pm, "ccar...@new.rr.com" <ccar...@new.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
>
> > I love it [sarcasm] when a motorist beeps thier horn to alert me of
> > thier presence. I mean, this is a road, I am used to cycling in
> > traffic! But thanks for the warning;) !!!
>
> > What are your opinions on this. Am I the only one annoyed by it?
>
> > Cullen Carter
>
> A well meaning "toot" is always okay with me.
>
> An angry "get the F off the road" beep ... never.
>
> Sometimes, it's difficult to differentiate between the two.
>
> And sometimes, it's very simple.

it's probabally better just to raise your hand to wave "thanks" or "go
around" than anything else (including middle finger or fist); bike vs
car, car wins....let it go than provoke an incident that might ruin
your ride or more

EasyCompany

01-04-1970, 05:25 AM

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:32:44 -0500, "Guy Anderson, Sr."
<guyfanderson@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:15:04 -0700 (PDT), "ccarter@new.rr.com"
><ccarter@new.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>I love it [sarcasm] when a motorist beeps thier horn to alert me of
>>thier presence. I mean, this is a road, I am used to cycling in
>>traffic! But thanks for the warning;) !!!
>
>I appreciate a friendly toot from 30 yards behind, just inform me that
>a pass is imminent. I DO NOT appreciate the jerks who deafen and
>startle me blasting their horns right beside me!

Exactly.

Beep, if you must from at least 30 yds. That gives me time to signal
I'm turning (for instance). I hear you, yet am not startled. After
all, I could fall off the bike and if you ran me over, think of the
mess it would make on your tires..

Beep to say 'hi' -after- you've passed me! :-)

Keep the 'beep' as short as possible.

When you do pass me, do it at a normal speed and when it's safe. Don't
continue the 'startle' by revving the motor, and flooring it.

After you pass, you do not need to go to the extreme right to show me
how far you had to travel to go around me.

Obviously, don't turn into your driveway 20 feet in front of me, or
slam on your brakes.

If you are going nowhere in a hurry, just wait a little, okay? We
might be neighbors.

SMS

01-04-1970, 05:25 AM

Michael Baldwin wrote:

> Clear road, _no_ oncoming traffic. Overtaking car/driver approaches
> from rear. I can hear them decelerating to say oh, 20 mph. They then
> make this huge arc around me and resume previous warp command.

Try using a Flash Flag. The arc happens with almost every driver on
every road. Maybe they're terrified of getting their vehicle scratched.

EasyCompany

01-04-1970, 05:32 AM

On 15 Mar 2008 03:32:57 GMT, jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:

>Cullen Carter wrote:
>
>> I love it [sarcasm] when a motorist beeps their horn to alert me of
>> their presence. I mean, this is a road, I am used to cycling in
>> traffic! But thanks for the warning;) !!!
>
>> What are your opinions on this. Am I the only one annoyed by it?
>
>It's condescending and insulting in most events, unless it is truly a
>tap on the horn giving a minimal bip rather than the irate rude one
>second blast that suggests the bicyclist should evaporate.
>
>I find that most auto horns are sounded when I ride with riders who
>insist they have the right to ride in the traffic lane even when there
>is an adequate shoulder with a good surface. That behaviors is as
>obvious to drivers of motor vehicles as the one second honk is to
>bicyclists. It's brash body language that sends unpleasant massages.
>
> http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/6.1.html
>
>Jobst Brandt

I experienced a newer one last week called 'the Left squeeze'.

Entering an old railway tunnel 20 feet long from a stop sign right at
the tunnel entrance (the visibility on approach is poor), I started
into the tunnel.

Approaching me from the other direction was a driver who had already
done a 'rolling stop' at his sign. Instead of hesitating a moment to
let me get through the tunnel he tried to get as close to the wall on
the driver's side as possible without hitting , as if he wanted me to
scrape the wall (to my right) with my elbow or handle bars to get
through.

Fortunately I found a narrow patch closer than he was willing to
squeeze me into and made it through in about 2 seconds before he could
steer into the wall. Must have been frustrating for him in his
suv-truck, since it was hard for him to see how close his high fender
was. Thus he couldn't execute the full squeeze in time..

Most drivers will stop and wait in a pre-tunnel ante way where the
road starts to narrow from two lanes, then in 1-2 seconds, I wave and
being through, they enter from their side.

The city made it worse in this narrow tunnel by building a very high
curbed sidewalk on one side making a nearly 2 lane tunnel into 1.25
lanes. The sidewalk is too tall to jump if you're on the side walk
side on your bike, also. You'd have to do the jump dismount and haul
and hope the driver didn't decide to jump the walk to get at you.
Yikes. :)

Paul M. Hobson

01-04-1970, 05:32 AM

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>
> http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/6.1.html

Thanks for the link. This part, though:

>> What to do? Don't fuel the flames. Don't return the rudeness that is
>> dished out. Take legal action where appropriate (and possible).
>> Don't posture in traffic drawing attention to some undefined
>> superiority to people who sit in cars. Don't balance on your bike or
>> ride in circles in front of cars waiting at a red light. Don't make
>> moves in traffic that are either discourteous, or at best, awkward but
>> legal.

I agree 90%. It's clear that riding circles around a car is a bad
attempt at intimidation, but track standing? Seriously? I don't think
drivers are the least bit upset by my desire and ability to not unclip
at every single stop light.

--
Paul M. Hobson
..:change the f to ph to reply:.

EasyCompany

01-04-1970, 05:35 AM

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 17:41:41 -0700 (PDT), Bob <hunrobe@aol.com> wrote:

>On Mar 12, 4:15*pm, "ccar...@new.rr.com" <ccar...@new.rr.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I love it [sarcasm] when a motorist beeps thier horn to alert me of
>> thier presence. I mean, this is a road, I am used to cycling in
>> traffic! But thanks for the warning;) !!!
>>
>> What are your opinions on this. Am I the only one annoyed by it?
>>
>> Cullen Carter
>
>A short beep to alert me to the presence of overtaking traffic never
>bothers me. I've beeped like that to warn cyclists when I've been
>driving and about to overtake them.

C'mon, Bob, you really don't think they've seen you long before that?
Plus, too close if you're just about to overtake them. I expect more
out ofyou.

> It really isn't any different than
>a cyclist on a MUP ringing a bell to warn other path users.

Well, ring a bicycle bell in your bedroom at 2am and then Ioot the
horn on your car, same place, same time. You can tell me if there's a
difference in 'startle factor' by how quickly your wife hits you with
a shoe. ;p

>Regards,
>Bob Hunt

Tom Sherman

01-04-1970, 05:35 AM

Bob Hunt wrote:
> On Mar 12, 4:15 pm, "ccar...@new.rr.com" <ccar...@new.rr.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I love it [sarcasm] when a motorist beeps thier horn to alert me of
>> thier presence. I mean, this is a road, I am used to cycling in
>> traffic! But thanks for the warning;) !!!
>>
>> What are your opinions on this. Am I the only one annoyed by it?
>>
>> Cullen Carter
>
> A short beep to alert me to the presence of overtaking traffic never
> bothers me. I've beeped like that to warn cyclists when I've been
> driving and about to overtake them. It really isn't any different than
> a cyclist on a MUP ringing a bell to warn other path users. The long
> horn blast that says, "Get out of my way", is another story and would
> be akin to a MUP cyclist using an airhorn to clear the path in front
> of them- totally unnecessary and downright rude.
>
Ever encounter an inline skater with earphones and the noise/music
cranked way up? They can not hear a bell or a voice, but the Air Zound
cuts through.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Pat

01-04-1970, 05:36 AM

>>
>>A short beep to alert me to the presence of overtaking traffic never
>>bothers me. I've beeped like that to warn cyclists when I've been
>>driving and about to overtake them.
>
> C'mon, Bob, you really don't think they've seen you long before that?
> Plus, too close if you're just about to overtake them. I expect more
> out ofyou.

I have to say that I see absolutely no need for any beeps, short or
otherwise. To do a beep indicates you think there is no way the cyclist
could absolutely know you're behind them. I have ears; I know you're there
even if I don't look at you.

Pat in TX

Bob

01-04-1970, 05:36 AM

On Mar 16, 9:03*am, EasyCompany <SgtR...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 17:41:41 -0700 (PDT), Bob <hunr...@aol.com> wrote:

> >A short beep to alert me to the presence of overtaking traffic never
> >bothers me. I've beeped like that to warn cyclists when I've been
> >driving and about to overtake them.
>
> C'mon, Bob, you really don't think they've seen you long before that?
> Plus, too close if you're just about to overtake them. I expect more
> out ofyou.

Sometimes, especially in the case of overtaking two or more cyclists
riding together, I know they really *haven't* seen me just as I know
there have been times when I've failed to notice traffic approaching
me from behind. Wind noise, dodging potholes and debris, watching
cross traffic, or simply just hammering hard are just a few reasons
that can happen. Lacking 360 degree peripheral vision, no one can be
100% aware of everything around them in a 360 deg arc and humans
simply aren't built that way.
BTW, you're misinterpreting what I mean when I say I'm "about to
overtake" if you think that automatically means I'm too close. Proper
overtaking doesn't start when you're on someone's rear wheel (or rear
bumper in the case of a motor vehicle) but well before then. Since
I've never gotten any surprised responses I guess I must not be *that*
close.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Michael Baldwin

01-04-1970, 05:38 AM

The Six Million Dollar Mans says

>I have to say that I see absolutely no need
>for any beeps, short or otherwise. To do a beep
>indicates you think there is no way the cyclist could
>absolutely know you're behind them. I have ears; I know
>you're there even if I don't look at you.
>Pat in TX

DiDiDiDiDiDi......

Probably most drivers, even in Texas, are unaware of your Bionic
capabilities Pat. To counter your "to do a beep indicates you think
there is no way the cyclist could absolutely know you're behind
them"...I've been "beeped" and have a noted the driver giving a _"thumbs
up"_ approval. I've been "beeped" by drivers with bikes on their roof
mounted racks I've been "beeped" when the wind in my ears was the only
thing I _was_ hearing until I was "beeped".
To have not only an incredible awareness of the surrounding
environment but the ability to know the mindset of approaching motorist
is absolutely phenomenal.
May I ask, do you have night vision as well?

just regards - Mike Baldwin

Bob

01-04-1970, 05:38 AM

On Mar 16, 3:46*pm, "Pat" <in...@tmail.com> wrote:
> >>A short beep to alert me to the presence of overtaking traffic never
> >>bothers me. I've beeped like that to warn cyclists when I've been
> >>driving and about to overtake them.
>
> > C'mon, Bob, you really don't think they've seen you long before that?
> > Plus, too close if you're just about to overtake them. I expect more
> > out ofyou.
>
> I have to say that I see absolutely no need for any beeps, short or
> otherwise. To do a beep indicates you think there is no way the cyclist
> could absolutely know you're behind them. I have ears; I know you're there
> even if I don't look at you.
>
> Pat in TX

I don't beep every cyclist, just those that appear oblivious to my
presence or who seem unaware of the concept of holding a line. I don't
mind if I'm wasting my effort because it really isn't all that
difficult to tap on the horn button.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

neil0502@yahoo.com

01-04-1970, 05:38 AM

On Mar 16, 1:46 pm, "Pat" <in...@tmail.com> wrote:
> >>A short beep to alert me to the presence of overtaking traffic never
> >>bothers me. I've beeped like that to warn cyclists when I've been
> >>driving and about to overtake them.
>
> > C'mon, Bob, you really don't think they've seen you long before that?
> > Plus, too close if you're just about to overtake them. I expect more
> > out ofyou.
>
> I have to say that I see absolutely no need for any beeps, short or
> otherwise. To do a beep indicates you think there is no way the cyclist
> could absolutely know you're behind them. I have ears; I know you're there
> even if I don't look at you.
>
> Pat in TX

Life may be dramatically different where you live. Genuinely.

Around here, you may see a small bunch of people riding on any given
road, side by side (where it's NOT legal to do so), or one passing the
other here and there (in other words, moving into the traffic lane).

If you haven't /seen/ them look back, and you see that they are NOT
using mirrors -- particularly since so many people ride with
headphones on -- then you are not, IMO, safe in assuming that "they
know you're there." They're behavior often indicates that they either
don't know ... or don't care.

A friendly toot (I'm taking the driver perspective, now), can often
say, "hold your line for just a second and we'll both get through this
okay" ;-)

As I say, from the cyclist's perspective, I never mind (and will
acknowledge with a hand gesture that involves ALL five digits!).

Pat

01-04-1970, 05:38 AM

>>I have to say that I see absolutely no need
>>for any beeps, short or otherwise. To do a beep
>>indicates you think there is no way the cyclist could
>>absolutely know you're behind them. I have ears; I know
>>you're there even if I don't look at you.
>>Pat in TX
>
> DiDiDiDiDiDi......
>
> Probably most drivers, even in Texas, are unaware of your Bionic
> capabilities Pat. To counter your "to do a beep indicates you think
> there is no way the cyclist could absolutely know you're behind
> them"...I've been "beeped" and have a noted the driver giving a _"thumbs
> up"_ approval. I've been "beeped" by drivers with bikes on their roof
> mounted racks I've been "beeped" when the wind in my ears was the only
> thing I _was_ hearing until I was "beeped".
> To have not only an incredible awareness of the surrounding
> environment but the ability to know the mindset of approaching motorist
> is absolutely phenomenal.
> May I ask, do you have night vision as well?
>
> just regards - Mike Baldwin

Jeez, aren't you the cute one! When I am riding on a road of several lanes,
nobody beeps at me. It is only when I am riding on a two lane country road
that this happens. As a result, when riding on such a road, I pay attention
to my surroundings. You just might try doing the same. You'd be surprised
how that helps!
>

EasyCompany

01-04-1970, 05:39 AM

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 18:45:13 -0700 (PDT), Bob <hunrobe@aol.com> wrote:

>On Mar 16, 9:03*am, EasyCompany <SgtR...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 17:41:41 -0700 (PDT), Bob <hunr...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> >A short beep to alert me to the presence of overtaking traffic never
>> >bothers me. I've beeped like that to warn cyclists when I've been
>> >driving and about to overtake them.
>>
>> C'mon, Bob, you really don't think they've seen you long before that?
>> Plus, too close if you're just about to overtake them. I expect more
>> out ofyou.
>
>Sometimes, especially in the case of overtaking two or more cyclists
>riding together, I know they really *haven't* seen me just as I know
>there have been times when I've failed to notice traffic approaching
>me from behind. Wind noise, dodging potholes and debris, watching
>cross traffic, or simply just hammering hard are just a few reasons
>that can happen. Lacking 360 degree peripheral vision, no one can be
>100% aware of everything around them in a 360 deg arc and humans
>simply aren't built that way.
>BTW, you're misinterpreting what I mean when I say I'm "about to
>overtake" if you think that automatically means I'm too close. Proper
>overtaking doesn't start when you're on someone's rear wheel (or rear
>bumper in the case of a motor vehicle) but well before then. Since
>I've never gotten any surprised responses I guess I must not be *that*
>close.
>
>Regards,
>Bob Hunt

That's a lot of words, there, buddy.

Categorically, anyone who 'beeps' at a cyclist has some degree of
impatience going on. I just wait until it's impossibly easy to pass
them and then go 'way around.

If the delay is more than a few seconds, I spend the time looking at
their bike bling, or just observing their pedaling, or outfits.

Sometimes I'll just hang back for a while, especially if they're going
up a medium hill to block other overtakers near the top.

Anyway, ymmv. Let's hope we practice what we preach out there. :)

Thanks for the reply.

Pat

01-04-1970, 05:39 AM

> I have to say that I see absolutely no need for any beeps, short or
> otherwise. To do a beep indicates you think there is no way the cyclist
> could absolutely know you're behind them. I have ears; I know you're there
> even if I don't look at you.
>
> Pat in TX

I don't beep every cyclist, just those that appear oblivious to my
presence or who seem unaware of the concept of holding a line. I don't
mind if I'm wasting my effort because it really isn't all that
difficult to tap on the horn button.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Well, that certainly makes sense. And you didn't have to be a cutesy smarmy
wiseass like that other guy to get your point across. Imagine that.

Pat in TX

Michael Baldwin

01-04-1970, 05:39 AM

>I have to say that I see absolutely no need
>for any beeps, short or otherwise. To do a beep
>indicates you think there is no way the cyclist could
>absolutely know you're behind them. I have ears; I know
>you're there even if I don't look at you. Pat
>in TX
>DiDiDiDiDiDi......
>Probably most drivers, even in Texas, are unaware of your
>Bionic capabilities Pat. * * To counter your "to do
>a beep indicates you think there is no way the
>cyclist could absolutely know you're behind them"...I've been "beeped"
and
>have a noted the driver giving a _"thumbs up"_ approval.
>I've been "beeped" by drivers with bikes on their roof
>mounted racks I've been "beeped" when the wind in my
>ears was the only thing I _was_ hearing until I
>was "beeped".
>****To have not only an incredible awareness of the surrounding
>environment but the ability to know the mindset of approaching
>motorist is absolutely phenomenal.
>******May I ask, do you have night vision as well?
>just regards - Mike Baldwin
>Jeez, aren't you the cute one! When I am riding
>on a road of several lanes, nobody beeps at me.
>It is only when I am riding on a two
>lane country road that this happens. As a result, when
>riding on such a road, I pay attention to my
>surroundings. You just might try doing the same. You'd be
>surprised how that helps!

Pat, another of your typical dodge replies. Divert the attention away
from your previous, now obviously indefensible opinion regarding those
who choose to "beep" and focus on the messenger and not the message.
Ah hell. It's late. Just let the paint dry and in the morning you'll
be able to walk away from the corner you've painted _yourself_ into.

just regards - Mike Baldwin

Tom Sherman

01-04-1970, 05:39 AM

Pat ??? wrote:
>>> I have to say that I see absolutely no need
>>> for any beeps, short or otherwise. To do a beep
>>> indicates you think there is no way the cyclist could
>>> absolutely know you're behind them. I have ears; I know
>>> you're there even if I don't look at you.
>>> Pat in TX
>> DiDiDiDiDiDi......
>>
>> Probably most drivers, even in Texas, are unaware of your Bionic
>> capabilities Pat. To counter your "to do a beep indicates you think
>> there is no way the cyclist could absolutely know you're behind
>> them"...I've been "beeped" and have a noted the driver giving a _"thumbs
>> up"_ approval. I've been "beeped" by drivers with bikes on their roof
>> mounted racks I've been "beeped" when the wind in my ears was the only
>> thing I _was_ hearing until I was "beeped".
>> To have not only an incredible awareness of the surrounding
>> environment but the ability to know the mindset of approaching motorist
>> is absolutely phenomenal.
>> May I ask, do you have night vision as well?
>>
>> just regards - Mike Baldwin
>
> Jeez, aren't you the cute one! When I am riding on a road of several lanes,
> nobody beeps at me. It is only when I am riding on a two lane country road
> that this happens. As a result, when riding on such a road, I pay attention
> to my surroundings. You just might try doing the same. You'd be surprised
> how that helps!
>
I have been honked at on a 4-lane street by a moron in a car that chose
to follow me at a distance of ten feet in the right lane instead of
passing in the left lane (there was no other traffic within 2000 feet of
us at the time). I wonder if the driver's SO in the car was impressed by
this, or by his giving me "the finger" when he finally pulled around to
pass?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Pat

01-04-1970, 05:39 AM

>
Pat, another of your typical dodge replies. Divert the attention away
from your previous, now obviously indefensible opinion regarding those
who choose to "beep" and focus on the messenger and not the message.
Ah hell. It's late. Just let the paint dry and in the morning you'll
be able to walk away from the corner you've painted _yourself_ into.

just regards - Mike Baldwin

WTF are you talking about a dodge? Can you not read? Here it is: there is no
reason to drive up on my tail and beep your horn on a two lane road. Did you
not read my previous post about being on the country lane? I cannot help it
if you have an attention deficit disorder--you're the one who made the
smarmy comment about me having "absolutely phenomenal" powers. When I ride,
I pay attention to my surroundings. Don't drive up behind me and start
honking. Is that straight enough for even you?

Pat in TX

frkrygow@gmail.com

01-04-1970, 05:40 AM

On Mar 17, 4:55 am, EasyCompany <SgtR...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> Categorically, anyone who 'beeps' at a cyclist has some degree of
> impatience going on.

??

In some cases, I've gently beeped at a cyclist simply because they
were obviously unaware of my car approaching, and were riding
erratically enough that I thought they needed notice. I think this
has been most common when cyclists are riding together and talking -
for example, when I've driven sag for organized centuries.

I suppose I could have stayed well behind them for, oh, five minutes
or so, hoping they'd notice me on their own. Or is a five minute
limit still showing "some degree of impatience"?

In any case, it doesn't get the job of sagging done.

> Anyway, ymmv. Let's hope we practice what we preach out there. :)

And let's not take offense too easily.

- Frank Krygowski

Bob

01-04-1970, 05:40 AM

On Mar 17, 3:55*am, EasyCompany <SgtR...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 18:45:13 -0700 (PDT), Bob <hunr...@aol.com> wrote:
> >On Mar 16, 9:03*am, EasyCompany <SgtR...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 17:41:41 -0700 (PDT), Bob <hunr...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >> >A short beep to alert me to the presence of overtaking traffic never
> >> >bothers me. I've beeped like that to warn cyclists when I've been
> >> >driving and about to overtake them.
>
> >> C'mon, Bob, you really don't think they've seen you long before that?
> >> Plus, too close if you're just about to overtake them. I expect more
> >> out ofyou.
>
> >Sometimes, especially in the case of overtaking two or more cyclists
> >riding together, I know they really *haven't* seen me just as I know
> >there have been times when I've failed to notice traffic approaching
> >me from behind. Wind noise, dodging potholes and debris, watching
> >cross traffic, or simply just hammering hard are just a few reasons
> >that can happen. Lacking 360 degree peripheral vision, no one can be
> >100% aware of everything around them in a 360 deg arc and humans
> >simply aren't built that way.
> >BTW, you're misinterpreting what I mean when I say I'm "about to
> >overtake" if you think that automatically means I'm too close. Proper
> >overtaking doesn't start when you're on someone's rear wheel (or rear
> >bumper in the case of a motor vehicle) but well before then. Since
> >I've never gotten any surprised responses I guess I must not be *that*
> >close.
>
> >Regards,
> >Bob Hunt
>
> That's a lot of words, there, buddy.
>
> Categorically, anyone who 'beeps' at a cyclist has some degree of
> impatience going on. I just wait until it's impossibly easy to pass
> them and then go 'way around.
>
> If the delay is more than a few seconds, I spend the time looking at
> their bike bling, or just observing their pedaling, or outfits.
>
> Sometimes I'll just hang back for a while, especially if they're going
> up a medium hill to block other overtakers near the top.
>
> Anyway, ymmv. Let's hope we practice what we preach out there. :)
>
> Thanks for the reply.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

If the only reason to sound a car horn is impatience then why do USDOT
regulations and the traffic codes of every State *require* cars to be
equipped with horns? Are they trying to save our vocal chords the
strain of shouting? I've always known the gummint has my welfare at
heart. I just never knew they cared quite that much. ;-)

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Michael Baldwin

01-04-1970, 05:40 AM

What are your opinions on this. Am I the only one annoyed by it?
Cullen Carter

Pat's 1st opinion;

There I am, riding solo on this winding country lane with no shoulders.
A car comes up behind me and honks...and honks...and honks...and I am
thinking "What the #$%^ do you want me to do--dive off into ditch?" It
was definitely one of those drivers who thinks bikes have NO right to
the roads at all....
Pat in TX

Pat's 2nd opinion;

I have to say that I see absolutely no need for any beeps, short or
otherwise. To do a beep indicates you think there is no way the cyclist
could absolutely know you're behind them. I have ears; I know you're
there even if I don't look at you.
Pat in TX

Pat's 3rd opinion (irrelevance edited out)

Here it is: there is no reason to drive up on my tail and beep your
horn on a two lane road. When I ride, I pay attention to my
surroundings. Don't drive up behind me and start honking.
Pat in TX

Pat, in opinions #1 & #2 you clearly suggest that you "know" what the
Motorist is thinking.
Maybe the Motorist in this case chose not to _assume_ what you were
thinking.
EG - Motorist "Gee I keep honking and honking and this cyclists has
yet to _acknowledge_ me?" again Motorist "I don't dare pull into the
oncoming lane to pass him since I can't see what's around the next curve
on this _winding_ road with no _shoulders_.
As an astute self-study of your own surroundings, in the future you
may want consider including your fellow man as an equal in those
surroundings instead of a subordinate. Also note, when on a
shoulderless winding road you may have to compromise your
self-righteousness once in awhile.
It's called Bicycle Advocacy for Dummies!

just regards - Mike Baldwin

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

01-04-1970, 05:43 AM

Bob Hunt wrote:

>>>>> A short beep to alert me to the presence of overtaking traffic
>>>>> never bothers me. I've beeped like that to warn cyclists when
>>>>> I've been driving and about to overtake them.

>>>> C'mon, Bob, you really don't think they've seen you long before
>>>> that? Plus, too close if you're just about to overtake them. I
>>>> expect more out of you.

>>> Sometimes, especially in the case of overtaking two or more
>>> cyclists riding together, I know they really *haven't* seen me
>>> just as I know there have been times when I've failed to notice
>>> traffic approaching me from behind. Wind noise, dodging potholes
>>> and debris, watching cross traffic, or simply just hammering hard
>>> are just a few reasons that can happen. Lacking 360 degree
>>> peripheral vision, no one can be 100% aware of everything around
>>> them in a 360 deg arc and humans simply aren't built that way.

>>> BTW, you're misinterpreting what I mean when I say I'm "about to
>>> overtake" if you think that automatically means I'm too close.
>>> Proper overtaking doesn't start when you're on someone's rear
>>> wheel (or rear bumper in the case of a motor vehicle) but well
>>> before then. Since I've never gotten any surprised responses I
>>> guess I must not be *that* close.

>> That's a lot of words, there, buddy.

>> Categorically, anyone who 'beeps' at a cyclist has some degree of
>> impatience going on. I just wait until it's impossibly easy to
>> pass them and then go 'way around.

>> If the delay is more than a few seconds, I spend the time looking
>> at their bike bling, or just observing their pedaling, or outfits.

>> Sometimes I'll just hang back for a while, especially if they're
>> going up a medium hill to block other overtakers near the top.

>> Anyway, YMMV. Let's hope we practice what we preach out there.

>> Thanks for the reply.

> If the only reason to sound a car horn is impatience then why do
> USDOT regulations and the traffic codes of every State *require*
> cars to be equipped with horns? Are they trying to save our vocal
> chords the strain of shouting? I've always known the gummint has my
> welfare at heart. I just never knew they cared quite that much.

I take it you have never been in a car that had an inoperative horn
and needed one. That is the best way to realize how important the
device is and why users are protected by a law requiring and
operational horn to be available.

My experience in that regard was mainly with cars backing into my path
or ones merging with no awareness of oncoming traffic. This occurs
rarely with bicyclists but is imaginable. The time (distance) when
such a signal would help is generally too far for using one's voice.

Jobst Brandt

Bob

01-04-1970, 05:43 AM

On Mar 17, 9:26*pm, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Bob Hunt wrote:
> > If the only reason to sound a car horn is impatience then why do
> > USDOT regulations and the traffic codes of every State *require*
> > cars to be equipped with horns? Are they trying to save our vocal
> > chords the strain of shouting? I've always known the gummint has my
> > welfare at heart. *I just never knew they cared quite that much.
>
> I take it you have never been in a car that had an inoperative horn
> and needed one. *That is the best way to realize how important the
> device is and why users are protected by a law requiring and
> operational horn to be available.
>
> My experience in that regard was mainly with cars backing into my path
> or ones merging with no awareness of oncoming traffic. *This occurs
> rarely with bicyclists but is imaginable. *The time (distance) when
> such a signal would help is generally too far for using one's voice.
>
> Jobst Brandt

That, of course, was exactly my point.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

EasyCompany

01-04-1970, 05:46 AM

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:17:33 -0700 (PDT), Bob <hunrobe@aol.com> wrote:

>On Mar 17, 9:26*pm, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>> Bob Hunt wrote:
>> > If the only reason to sound a car horn is impatience then why do
>> > USDOT regulations and the traffic codes of every State *require*
>> > cars to be equipped with horns? Are they trying to save our vocal
>> > chords the strain of shouting? I've always known the gummint has my
>> > welfare at heart. *I just never knew they cared quite that much.
>>
>> My experience in that regard was mainly with cars backing into my path
>> or ones merging with no awareness of oncoming traffic. *This occurs
>> rarely with bicyclists but is imaginable. *The time (distance) when
>> such a signal would help is generally too far for using one's voice.
>>
>> Jobst Brandt
>
>That, of course, was exactly my point.
>
>Regards,
>Bob Hunt

And, typical of your replies, Bob you left off the operative word. I
said beep at a CYCLIST. You decided to make it sound improper by
talking about cars. Nice try. My point remains, unless you're being
routinely backed into by guys on BICYCLES. Not cars. Bikes.

Nor, guys, did I say, imply, assert or suggest that horns be REMOVED
from cars. So I hope this ends the discussion, except for the part
where you dream up something I didn't say. LOL.

HTH :)

Bob

01-04-1970, 05:49 AM

On Mar 19, 8:15*pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
wrote:
> Bob Hunt wrote:
> > On Mar 12, 4:15 pm, "ccar...@new.rr.com" <ccar...@new.rr.com> wrote:
> >> Hello,
>
> >> I love it [sarcasm] when a motorist beeps thier horn to alert me of
> >> thier presence. I mean, this is a road, I am used to cycling in
> >> traffic! But thanks for the warning;) !!!
>
> >> What are your opinions on this. Am I the only one annoyed by it?
>
> >> Cullen Carter
>
> > A short beep to alert me to the presence of overtaking traffic never
> > bothers me. I've beeped like that to warn cyclists when I've been
> > driving and about to overtake them. It really isn't any different than
> > a cyclist on a MUP ringing a bell to warn other path users. The long
> > horn blast that says, "Get out of my way", is another story and would
> > be akin to a MUP cyclist using an airhorn to clear the path in front
> > of them- totally unnecessary and downright rude.
>
> Ever encounter an inline skater with earphones and the noise/music
> cranked way up? They can not hear a bell or a voice, but the Air Zound
> cuts through.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman

Yes I have and they all eventually noticed my call of, "On your left".
I wonder if the I-Pod wearing inline skaters you encounter feel any
differently toward you and your Air Zound than many cyclists feel
about drivers and their car horns.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Zoot Katz

01-04-1970, 05:49 AM

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:15:00 -0500, Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>Ever encounter an inline skater with earphones and the noise/music
>cranked way up? They can not hear a bell or a voice, but the Air Zound
>cuts through.

A poke check to the buttocks with a frame pump gets their attention.

Lined with re-bar it's useful for dogs and bike-jackers too.
--
zk

Tom Sherman

01-04-1970, 05:49 AM

Bob Hunt wrote:
> On Mar 19, 8:15 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> Bob Hunt wrote:
>>> On Mar 12, 4:15 pm, "ccar...@new.rr.com" <ccar...@new.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>> I love it [sarcasm] when a motorist beeps thier horn to alert me of
>>>> thier presence. I mean, this is a road, I am used to cycling in
>>>> traffic! But thanks for the warning;) !!!
>>>> What are your opinions on this. Am I the only one annoyed by it?
>>>> Cullen Carter
>>> A short beep to alert me to the presence of overtaking traffic never
>>> bothers me. I've beeped like that to warn cyclists when I've been
>>> driving and about to overtake them. It really isn't any different than
>>> a cyclist on a MUP ringing a bell to warn other path users. The long
>>> horn blast that says, "Get out of my way", is another story and would
>>> be akin to a MUP cyclist using an airhorn to clear the path in front
>>> of them- totally unnecessary and downright rude.
>> Ever encounter an inline skater with earphones and the noise/music
>> cranked way up? They can not hear a bell or a voice, but the Air Zound
>> cuts through.
>>
>
> Yes I have and they all eventually noticed my call of, "On your left".
> I wonder if the I-Pod wearing inline skaters you encounter feel any
> differently toward you and your Air Zound than many cyclists feel
> about drivers and their car horns.
>
The Air Zound is no louder subjectively to someone with noise blasting
in their ears than the bell is to a normal hominid.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Tom Sherman

01-04-1970, 05:50 AM

Zoot Katz wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:15:00 -0500, Tom Sherman
> <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Ever encounter an inline skater with earphones and the noise/music
>> cranked way up? They can not hear a bell or a voice, but the Air Zound
>> cuts through.
>
> A poke check to the buttocks with a frame pump gets their attention.
>
Having a leading 62T chainring out front could serve the same purpose. ;)

> Lined with re-bar it's useful for dogs and bike-jackers too.

A cattle prod is the best device for aggressive dogs.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Bob

01-04-1970, 05:50 AM

On Mar 20, 2:21*am, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
wrote:
> Bob Hunt wrote:
> > On Mar 19, 8:15 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >> Bob Hunt wrote:
> >>> On Mar 12, 4:15 pm, "ccar...@new.rr.com" <ccar...@new.rr.com> wrote:
> >>>> Hello,
> >>>> I love it [sarcasm] when a motorist beeps thier horn to alert me of
> >>>> thier presence. I mean, this is a road, I am used to cycling in
> >>>> traffic! But thanks for the warning;) !!!
> >>>> What are your opinions on this. Am I the only one annoyed by it?
> >>>> Cullen Carter
> >>> A short beep to alert me to the presence of overtaking traffic never
> >>> bothers me. I've beeped like that to warn cyclists when I've been
> >>> driving and about to overtake them. It really isn't any different than
> >>> a cyclist on a MUP ringing a bell to warn other path users. The long
> >>> horn blast that says, "Get out of my way", is another story and would
> >>> be akin to a MUP cyclist using an airhorn to clear the path in front
> >>> of them- totally unnecessary and downright rude.
> >> Ever encounter an inline skater with earphones and the noise/music
> >> cranked way up? They can not hear a bell or a voice, but the Air Zound
> >> cuts through.
>
> > Yes I have and they all eventually noticed my call of, "On your left".
> > I wonder if the I-Pod wearing inline skaters you encounter feel any
> > differently toward you and your Air Zound than many cyclists feel
> > about drivers and their car horns.
>
> The Air Zound is no louder subjectively to someone with noise blasting
> in their ears than the bell is to a normal hominid.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Judging by your posts in this (and other) threads about the virtues of
air horns, I'd say the only difference between you and the
sterotypical "get the hell off MY street" horn blasting driver is your
choice of vehicle. You may think that choosing a bike over an
automobile turns rude and obnoxious behavior into something else but
it doesn't. Rude and obnoxious is rude and obnoxious no matter the
mode of transport. Perhaps someday you'll see that.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

catzz66

01-04-1970, 06:17 AM

Bob wrote:

>
> Judging by your posts in this (and other) threads about the virtues of
> air horns, I'd say the only difference between you and the
> sterotypical "get the hell off MY street" horn blasting driver is your
> choice of vehicle. You may think that choosing a bike over an
> automobile turns rude and obnoxious behavior into something else but
> it doesn't. Rude and obnoxious is rude and obnoxious no matter the
> mode of transport. Perhaps someday you'll see that.
>
> Regards,
> Bob Hunt

The thing that keeps me from getting too torqued when beeping happens is
that sometimes (quite a lot, actually) the wind blows so hard around
here that it is difficult to hear cars approach in some places on my
regular routes. I try not to have an attitude when I ride or it would
defeat the whole purpose of riding, but it is still irritating when
drivers are rude. For me, it's better to forget it and drive on.

Tom Sherman

01-04-1970, 06:17 AM

Bob Hunt wrote:
> On Mar 20, 2:21 am, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> Bob Hunt wrote:
>>> On Mar 19, 8:15 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Bob Hunt wrote:
>>>>> On Mar 12, 4:15 pm, "ccar...@new.rr.com" <ccar...@new.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> I love it [sarcasm] when a motorist beeps thier horn to alert me of
>>>>>> thier presence. I mean, this is a road, I am used to cycling in
>>>>>> traffic! But thanks for the warning;) !!!
>>>>>> What are your opinions on this. Am I the only one annoyed by it?
>>>>>> Cullen Carter
>>>>> A short beep to alert me to the presence of overtaking traffic never
>>>>> bothers me. I've beeped like that to warn cyclists when I've been
>>>>> driving and about to overtake them. It really isn't any different than
>>>>> a cyclist on a MUP ringing a bell to warn other path users. The long
>>>>> horn blast that says, "Get out of my way", is another story and would
>>>>> be akin to a MUP cyclist using an airhorn to clear the path in front
>>>>> of them- totally unnecessary and downright rude.
>>>> Ever encounter an inline skater with earphones and the noise/music
>>>> cranked way up? They can not hear a bell or a voice, but the Air Zound
>>>> cuts through.
>>> Yes I have and they all eventually noticed my call of, "On your left".
>>> I wonder if the I-Pod wearing inline skaters you encounter feel any
>>> differently toward you and your Air Zound than many cyclists feel
>>> about drivers and their car horns.
>> The Air Zound is no louder subjectively to someone with noise blasting
>> in their ears than the bell is to a normal hominid.
>>
>
> Judging by your posts in this (and other) threads about the virtues of
> air horns, I'd say the only difference between you and the
> sterotypical "get the hell off MY street" horn blasting driver is your
> choice of vehicle. You may think that choosing a bike over an
> automobile turns rude and obnoxious behavior into something else but
> it doesn't. Rude and obnoxious is rude and obnoxious no matter the
> mode of transport. Perhaps someday you'll see that.
>
Methinks Mr. Hunt needs to get his Judgment-O-Meter® re-calibrated.

When an inline skater is weaving side to side, making his/her effective
width 6 to 8 feet and is totally oblivious to what is behind him/her, it
is NOT safe to pass such a person until one makes said inline skater
aware that they are about to be overtaken. When I can hear what is
coming out of the skater's headphones and the skater is non-responsive
to multiple rings of a normal bicycle bell, something louder is required.

Mr. Hunt should also inform himself of the effects of masking. I have
worked in industrial environments with an ambient noise level in excess
of 120 dBA [1], and in that environment one call yell as loud as one can
at a person from 2 feet away and they will not hear a thing.

For Mr. Hunt's information, I do not use an air horn on a regular basis
(accidental discharges while loading a bicycle into a vehicle excluded).

[1] Yes, I measured it myself.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Bob

01-04-1970, 06:18 AM

On Mar 26, 5:34*am, catzz66 <catz...@threeletterservice.com> wrote:

> The thing that keeps me from getting too torqued when beeping happens is
> that sometimes (quite a lot, actually) the wind blows so hard around
> here that it is difficult to hear cars approach in some places on my
> regular routes. *I try not to have an attitude when I ride or it would
> defeat the whole purpose of riding, but it is still irritating when
> drivers are rude. *For me, it's better to forget it and drive on.

Even on calm days, the wind noise generated by riding at speeds much
over 17 mph can drown out many sounds. If you add a headwind the noise
can really muffle the noise of cars approaching from the rear and I
can't recall every being honked at by any *but* cars coming from
behind except once when I was beeped at by friends as they pulled up
next to me. Those beeps were almost drowned out by their shouts out
the window of "Faster! Faster!". <g>

Regards,
Bob Hunt

catzz66

01-04-1970, 06:29 AM

Bob wrote:
> On Mar 26, 5:34 am, catzz66 <catz...@threeletterservice.com> wrote:
>
>
>>The thing that keeps me from getting too torqued when beeping happens is
>>that sometimes (quite a lot, actually) the wind blows so hard around
>>here that it is difficult to hear cars approach in some places on my
>>regular routes. I try not to have an attitude when I ride or it would
>>defeat the whole purpose of riding, but it is still irritating when
>>drivers are rude. For me, it's better to forget it and drive on.
>
>
> Even on calm days, the wind noise generated by riding at speeds much
> over 17 mph can drown out many sounds. If you add a headwind the noise
> can really muffle the noise of cars approaching from the rear and I
> can't recall every being honked at by any *but* cars coming from
> behind except once when I was beeped at by friends as they pulled up
> next to me. Those beeps were almost drowned out by their shouts out
> the window of "Faster! Faster!". <g>
>

Love the story.

Living in Texas, I get to do both rural and city riding, but my city
riding is normally a lot noisier. One of my routes runs next to a
limited access tollway and all the others are near expressways at some
point. Between the road noise and the wind, it can get pretty loud out
there.

Bob

01-04-1970, 06:34 AM

On Mar 29, 5:42*am, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
wrote:
> Bob Hunt wrote:
> > On Mar 20, 2:21 am, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >> Bob Hunt wrote:
> >>> On Mar 19, 8:15 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> Bob Hunt wrote:
> >>>>> On Mar 12, 4:15 pm, "ccar...@new.rr.com" <ccar...@new.rr.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> Hello,
> >>>>>> I love it [sarcasm] when a motorist beeps thier horn to alert me of
> >>>>>> thier presence. I mean, this is a road, I am used to cycling in
> >>>>>> traffic! But thanks for the warning;) !!!
> >>>>>> What are your opinions on this. Am I the only one annoyed by it?
> >>>>>> Cullen Carter
> >>>>> A short beep to alert me to the presence of overtaking traffic never
> >>>>> bothers me. I've beeped like that to warn cyclists when I've been
> >>>>> driving and about to overtake them. It really isn't any different than
> >>>>> a cyclist on a MUP ringing a bell to warn other path users. The long
> >>>>> horn blast that says, "Get out of my way", is another story and would
> >>>>> be akin to a MUP cyclist using an airhorn to clear the path in front
> >>>>> of them- totally unnecessary and downright rude.
> >>>> Ever encounter an inline skater with earphones and the noise/music
> >>>> cranked way up? They can not hear a bell or a voice, but the Air Zound
> >>>> cuts through.
> >>> Yes I have and they all eventually noticed my call of, "On your left".
> >>> I wonder if the I-Pod wearing inline skaters you encounter feel any
> >>> differently toward you and your Air Zound than many cyclists feel
> >>> about drivers and their car horns.
> >> The Air Zound is no louder subjectively to someone with noise blasting
> >> in their ears than the bell is to a normal hominid.
>
> > Judging by your posts in this (and other) threads about the virtues of
> > air horns, I'd say the only difference between you and the
> > sterotypical "get the hell off MY street" horn blasting driver is your
> > choice of vehicle. You may think that choosing a bike over an
> > automobile turns rude and obnoxious behavior into something else but
> > it doesn't. Rude and obnoxious is rude and obnoxious no matter the
> > mode of transport. Perhaps someday you'll see that.
>
> Methinks Mr. Hunt needs to get his Judgment-O-Meter® re-calibrated.
>
> When an inline skater is weaving side to side, making his/her effective
> width 6 to 8 feet and is totally oblivious to what is behind him/her, it
> * is NOT safe to pass such a person until one makes said inline skater
> aware that they are about to be overtaken. When I can hear what is
> coming out of the skater's headphones and the skater is non-responsive
> to multiple rings of a normal bicycle bell, something louder is required.
>
> Mr. Hunt should also inform himself of the effects of masking. I have
> worked in industrial environments with an ambient noise level in excess
> of 120 dBA [1], and in that environment one call yell as loud as one can
> at a person from 2 feet away and they will not hear a thing.
>
> For Mr. Hunt's information, I do not use an air horn on a regular basis
> (accidental discharges while loading a bicycle into a vehicle excluded).
>
> [1] Yes, I measured it myself.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I have never encountered the situation you describe. As I said
earlier, every oblivious skater I've ever encountered eventually
noticed me. The same holds true for joggers, soccer moms pushing
strollers, chattering pedestrians, etcetera. All I can say if your
experience is that much different is that perhaps you should avoid
MUPs. I'd definitely suggest avoiding riding in your "industrial
environments with an ambient noise level in excess
of 120 dBA".
Other than that, congratulations on not being rude and obnoxious on a
regular basis but only occasionally.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Tom Sherman

01-04-1970, 06:42 AM

Bob Hunt wrote:
> On Mar 29, 5:42 am, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> Bob Hunt wrote:
>>> On Mar 20, 2:21 am, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Bob Hunt wrote:
>>>>> On Mar 19, 8:15 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Bob Hunt wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mar 12, 4:15 pm, "ccar...@new.rr.com" <ccar...@new.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>> I love it [sarcasm] when a motorist beeps thier horn to alert me of
>>>>>>>> thier presence. I mean, this is a road, I am used to cycling in
>>>>>>>> traffic! But thanks for the warning;) !!!
>>>>>>>> What are your opinions on this. Am I the only one annoyed by it?
>>>>>>>> Cullen Carter
>>>>>>> A short beep to alert me to the presence of overtaking traffic never
>>>>>>> bothers me. I've beeped like that to warn cyclists when I've been
>>>>>>> driving and about to overtake them. It really isn't any different than
>>>>>>> a cyclist on a MUP ringing a bell to warn other path users. The long
>>>>>>> horn blast that says, "Get out of my way", is another story and would
>>>>>>> be akin to a MUP cyclist using an airhorn to clear the path in front
>>>>>>> of them- totally unnecessary and downright rude.
>>>>>> Ever encounter an inline skater with earphones and the noise/music
>>>>>> cranked way up? They can not hear a bell or a voice, but the Air Zound
>>>>>> cuts through.
>>>>> Yes I have and they all eventually noticed my call of, "On your left".
>>>>> I wonder if the I-Pod wearing inline skaters you encounter feel any
>>>>> differently toward you and your Air Zound than many cyclists feel
>>>>> about drivers and their car horns.
>>>> The Air Zound is no louder subjectively to someone with noise blasting
>>>> in their ears than the bell is to a normal hominid.
>>> Judging by your posts in this (and other) threads about the virtues of
>>> air horns, I'd say the only difference between you and the
>>> sterotypical "get the hell off MY street" horn blasting driver is your
>>> choice of vehicle. You may think that choosing a bike over an
>>> automobile turns rude and obnoxious behavior into something else but
>>> it doesn't. Rude and obnoxious is rude and obnoxious no matter the
>>> mode of transport. Perhaps someday you'll see that.
>> Methinks Mr. Hunt needs to get his Judgment-O-Meter® re-calibrated.
>>
>> When an inline skater is weaving side to side, making his/her effective
>> width 6 to 8 feet and is totally oblivious to what is behind him/her, it
>> is NOT safe to pass such a person until one makes said inline skater
>> aware that they are about to be overtaken. When I can hear what is
>> coming out of the skater's headphones and the skater is non-responsive
>> to multiple rings of a normal bicycle bell, something louder is required.
>>
>> Mr. Hunt should also inform himself of the effects of masking. I have
>> worked in industrial environments with an ambient noise level in excess
>> of 120 dBA [1], and in that environment one call yell as loud as one can
>> at a person from 2 feet away and they will not hear a thing.
>>
>> For Mr. Hunt's information, I do not use an air horn on a regular basis
>> (accidental discharges while loading a bicycle into a vehicle excluded).
>>
>> [1] Yes, I measured it myself.
>>
>
> I have never encountered the situation you describe.

Have you ever ridden much in a college campus area in recent years?

> As I said
> earlier, every oblivious skater I've ever encountered eventually
> noticed me. The same holds true for joggers, soccer moms pushing
> strollers, chattering pedestrians, etcetera.

If they do not have headphones at a ridiculous volume level, a few dings
from the bell when several seconds from closing are certainly adequate.

> All I can say if your
> experience is that much different is that perhaps you should avoid
> MUPs. I'd definitely suggest avoiding riding in your "industrial
> environments with an ambient noise level in excess
> of 120 dBA".

Look up the phenomenon of acoustical masking of sounds.

> Other than that, congratulations on not being rude and obnoxious on a
> regular basis but only occasionally.
>
Mr. Hunt still appears to not understand that if the volume of the
headphones is very loud, the air horn is not nearly as loud subjectively
as it would be to someone without the masking noise in his/her ears.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful