Wrong-way brake levers

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

Why do so many of the brake levers on these French porteur bikes face
forward instead of backward?

Style? Internal cable routing? Some mechanical advantage?

Is it just a French thing? They look like a different design, not just
a backwards mount.

Page with lots of them:
http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/velos.html

Examples:
http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_grandluxe.jpg

http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_specialparisien.jpg

http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_1950_shift.jpg
http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/singer_1950.jpg
http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/singer_1960.jpg
http://www.blackbirdsf.org/bikes/images/motobecane/motobecane.jpg
http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/porteur_052.jpg
http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/porteur_056.jpg

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

[A Muzi]

carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> Why do so many of the brake levers on these French porteur bikes face
> forward instead of backward?
>
> Style? Internal cable routing? Some mechanical advantage?
>
> Is it just a French thing? They look like a different design, not just
> a backwards mount.
>
> Page with lots of them:
> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/velos.html
>
> Examples:
> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_grandluxe.jpg
>
> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_specialparisien.jpg
>
> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_1950_shift.jpg
> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/singer_1950.jpg
> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/singer_1960.jpg
> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/bikes/images/motobecane/motobecane.jpg
> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/porteur_052.jpg
> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/porteur_056.jpg

Fashion. It's a current product:
http://www.e-cycle.co.jp/goods/detail.php?id=836&genre=1

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Mike Rocket J Squirrel]

On 3/27/2008 2:07 PM carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:

> Why do so many of the brake levers on these French porteur bikes face
> forward instead of backward?

[snip]

> Page with lots of them:
> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/velos.html

Cool bikes. Probably total clunkers to ride, though.

My 19 y/o son likes older bikes. Has an old Raleigh, a-and a "record
player," too.

Ah! 'e would love to 'ave a French porteur bikes! The styling! The
mudguards and chain guards and swept back 'andlebars with big
bullet-shaped chrome headlights! Of course, being 19, 'e 'as no
monee!(shrug), so it cannot be.

He and a friend bought a Flying Pigeon bike, made in China. Thing fell
apart in a couple months. Heap of rusted pipes and galvanized hardware.
Spokes as big around as 12 penny nails.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"

[M-gineering]

carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> Why do so many of the brake levers on these French porteur bikes face
> forward instead of backward?
>
> Style?

of course

Internal cable routing?

yes

Some mechanical advantage?

the stronger fingers have more leverage

>
> Is it just a French thing?

[looks up] Pedersen used them too


--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:09:01 -0600, A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
wrote:

>carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>> Why do so many of the brake levers on these French porteur bikes face
>> forward instead of backward?
>>
>> Style? Internal cable routing? Some mechanical advantage?
>>
>> Is it just a French thing? They look like a different design, not just
>> a backwards mount.
>>
>> Page with lots of them:
>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/velos.html
>>
>> Examples:
>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_grandluxe.jpg
>>
>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_specialparisien.jpg
>>
>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_1950_shift.jpg
>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/singer_1950.jpg
>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/singer_1960.jpg
>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/bikes/images/motobecane/motobecane.jpg
>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/porteur_052.jpg
>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/porteur_056.jpg
>
>Fashion. It's a current product:
>http://www.e-cycle.co.jp/goods/detail.php?id=836&amp;genre=1

Dear Andrew,

Thanks--so they're fashionable brake levers found on French utility
bikes, still available from Japan--that's just plain weird.

There are examples in "The Data Book" from France in 1950 and 1951
on pages 115 and 149.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

[A Muzi]

> On 3/27/2008 2:07 PM carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>> Why do so many of the brake levers on these French porteur bikes face
>> forward instead of backward?
> [snip]
>> Page with lots of them:
>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/velos.html

Mike Rocket J Squirrel wrote:
> Cool bikes. Probably total clunkers to ride, though.
>
> My 19 y/o son likes older bikes. Has an old Raleigh, a-and a "record
> player," too.
>
> Ah! 'e would love to 'ave a French porteur bikes! The styling! The
> mudguards and chain guards and swept back 'andlebars with big
> bullet-shaped chrome headlights! Of course, being 19, 'e 'as no
> monee!(shrug), so it cannot be.
>
> He and a friend bought a Flying Pigeon bike, made in China. Thing fell
> apart in a couple months. Heap of rusted pipes and galvanized hardware.
> Spokes as big around as 12 penny nails.

Yep, Roadsters are an acquired taste. Like so many things, many love 'em
and many hate 'em. YMMV
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:50:35 -0700, Mike Rocket J Squirrel
<j.michael.elliott@GOLLYgmail.com> wrote:

>On 3/27/2008 2:07 PM carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>
>> Why do so many of the brake levers on these French porteur bikes face
>> forward instead of backward?
>
>[snip]
>
>> Page with lots of them:
>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/velos.html
>
>Cool bikes. Probably total clunkers to ride, though.
>
>My 19 y/o son likes older bikes. Has an old Raleigh, a-and a "record
>player," too.
>
>Ah! 'e would love to 'ave a French porteur bikes! The styling! The
>mudguards and chain guards and swept back 'andlebars with big
>bullet-shaped chrome headlights! Of course, being 19, 'e 'as no
>monee!(shrug), so it cannot be.
>
>He and a friend bought a Flying Pigeon bike, made in China. Thing fell
>apart in a couple months. Heap of rusted pipes and galvanized hardware.
>Spokes as big around as 12 penny nails.

Dear Mike,

Curious, I looked into Flying Pigeon:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Pigeon

Ominously, clicking on the first external link produces a virus
warning from AVG.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

[DanKMTB@gmail.com]

On Mar 27, 5:50*pm, Mike Rocket J Squirrel
<j.michael.elli...@GOLLYgmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/27/2008 2:07 PM carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > Why do so many of the brake levers on these French porteur bikes face
> > forward instead of backward?
>
> [snip]
>
> > Page with lots of them:
> > *http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/velos.html
>
> Cool bikes. Probably total clunkers to ride, though.
>
> My 19 y/o son likes older bikes. Has an old Raleigh, a-and a "record
> player," too.
>
> Ah! 'e would love to 'ave a French porteur bikes! The styling! The
> mudguards and chain guards and swept back 'andlebars with big
> bullet-shaped chrome headlights! Of course, being 19, 'e 'as no
> monee!(shrug), so it cannot be.
>
> He and a friend bought a Flying Pigeon bike, made in China. Thing fell
> apart in a couple months. Heap of rusted pipes and galvanized hardware.
> Spokes as big around as 12 penny nails.
>
> --
> Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"

I'm with your son. Broke, digging the styling and loving those
fenders. The swept-back bars don't do it for me, but the chrome
fenders molded to the bike and tire size were darn cool!! My townie
has planet bike freddie fenders. I had to cut them up to get the
front to fit, so I figure it's got another year left (I've had it 2).
They're also ok for 26"-700c tires, which just doesn't look good no
matter what size it ends up on. I'd love a set of nice aluminum
fenders made for my bike and that one tire size. I've actually
considering having them fabricated, but my machine shop fabricating
favor pool is a little shallow at the moment with some favors I've
pulled in the last year or so with the motorcycle. I need another
boating/fishing/kayaking/riding season to re-tilt the favor scale my
way. I'm also concerned the partially rusted and wholly abused frame
would quit right as I got the fenders.

[A Muzi]

>> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>> Why do so many of the brake levers on these French porteur bikes face
>>> forward instead of backward?
>>>
>>> Style? Internal cable routing? Some mechanical advantage?
>>>
>>> Is it just a French thing? They look like a different design, not just
>>> a backwards mount.
>>>
>>> Page with lots of them:
>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/velos.html
>>>
>>> Examples:
>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_grandluxe.jpg
>>>
>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_specialparisien.jpg
>>>
>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_1950_shift.jpg
>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/singer_1950.jpg
>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/singer_1960.jpg
>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/bikes/images/motobecane/motobecane.jpg
>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/porteur_052.jpg
>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/porteur_056.jpg

> A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> Fashion. It's a current product:
>> http://www.e-cycle.co.jp/goods/detail.php?id=836&amp;genre=1

carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> Thanks--so they're fashionable brake levers found on French utility
> bikes, still available from Japan--that's just plain weird.
> There are examples in "The Data Book" from France in 1950 and 1951
> on pages 115 and 149.

The trendy youth among us ride fixies with no brakes. Once they wise up,
the second-trendiest style is a time trial handlebar with one of those
levers out at the end.
Triathlon aero bars accept them as well. They've been in constant
production since forever by various makers; the French models you note,
Japanese schoolboy bikes of the sixties and '70s, triathlon '80s to
present, urban fixies, etc.

Here are yet other variants:
http://www.jtekengineering.com/Jtek_Brake_Levers.htm
http://www.slowtwitch.com/images/makeover/makeover11.jpg
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[A Muzi]

>> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>> Why do so many of the brake levers on these French porteur bikes face
>>> forward instead of backward?
>>>
>>> Style? Internal cable routing? Some mechanical advantage?
>>>
>>> Is it just a French thing? They look like a different design, not just
>>> a backwards mount.
>>>
>>> Page with lots of them:
>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/velos.html
>>>
>>> Examples:
>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_grandluxe.jpg
>>>
>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_specialparisien.jpg
>>>
>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_1950_shift.jpg
>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/singer_1950.jpg
>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/singer_1960.jpg
>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/bikes/images/motobecane/motobecane.jpg
>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/porteur_052.jpg
>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/porteur_056.jpg

> A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> Fashion. It's a current product:
>> http://www.e-cycle.co.jp/goods/detail.php?id=836&amp;genre=1

carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> Thanks--so they're fashionable brake levers found on French utility
> bikes, still available from Japan--that's just plain weird.
> There are examples in "The Data Book" from France in 1950 and 1951
> on pages 115 and 149.

This bike just rolled in my door:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/daily.html
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Mike Rocket J Squirrel]

On 3/27/2008 4:16 PM carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:50:35 -0700, Mike Rocket J Squirrel
> <j.michael.elliott@GOLLYgmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 3/27/2008 2:07 PM carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>
>>> Why do so many of the brake levers on these French porteur bikes face
>>> forward instead of backward?
>> [snip]
>>
>>> Page with lots of them:
>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/velos.html
>> Cool bikes. Probably total clunkers to ride, though.
>>
>> My 19 y/o son likes older bikes. Has an old Raleigh, a-and a "record
>> player," too.
>>
>> Ah! 'e would love to 'ave a French porteur bikes! The styling! The
>> mudguards and chain guards and swept back 'andlebars with big
>> bullet-shaped chrome headlights! Of course, being 19, 'e 'as no
>> monee!(shrug), so it cannot be.
>>
>> He and a friend bought a Flying Pigeon bike, made in China. Thing fell
>> apart in a couple months. Heap of rusted pipes and galvanized hardware.
>> Spokes as big around as 12 penny nails.
>
> Dear Mike,
>
> Curious, I looked into Flying Pigeon:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Pigeon
>
> Ominously, clicking on the first external link produces a virus
> warning from AVG.

Best to avoid the whole thing, then.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"

[M-gineering]

carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:

> Curious, I looked into Flying Pigeon:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Pigeon
>
> Ominously, clicking on the first external link produces a virus
> warning from AVG.


Yes, you want to be very carefull with asian birdflu!
--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:20:46 -0600, A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
wrote:

>>> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>>> Why do so many of the brake levers on these French porteur bikes face
>>>> forward instead of backward?
>>>>
>>>> Style? Internal cable routing? Some mechanical advantage?
>>>>
>>>> Is it just a French thing? They look like a different design, not just
>>>> a backwards mount.
>>>>
>>>> Page with lots of them:
>>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/velos.html
>>>>
>>>> Examples:
>>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_grandluxe.jpg
>>>>
>>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_specialparisien.jpg
>>>>
>>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_1950_shift.jpg
>>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/singer_1950.jpg
>>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/singer_1960.jpg
>>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/bikes/images/motobecane/motobecane.jpg
>>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/porteur_052.jpg
>>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/porteur_056.jpg
>
>> A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> Fashion. It's a current product:
>>> http://www.e-cycle.co.jp/goods/detail.php?id=836&amp;genre=1
>
>carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>> Thanks--so they're fashionable brake levers found on French utility
>> bikes, still available from Japan--that's just plain weird.
>> There are examples in "The Data Book" from France in 1950 and 1951
>> on pages 115 and 149.
>
>This bike just rolled in my door:
>http://www.yellowjersey.org/daily.html

Dear Andrew,

Yes, "rolled" seems like the right word.

Sell him some pedals.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

[Bill Sornson]

A Muzi wrote:

> This bike just rolled in my door:
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/daily.html

It's missing a LOT of parts!

[Michael Press]

In article <13uoat849s8640f@corp.supernews.com>,
A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

> >> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> >>> Why do so many of the brake levers on these French porteur bikes face
> >>> forward instead of backward?
> >>>
> >>> Style? Internal cable routing? Some mechanical advantage?
> >>>
> >>> Is it just a French thing? They look like a different design, not just
> >>> a backwards mount.
> >>>
> >>> Page with lots of them:
> >>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/velos.html
> >>>
> >>> Examples:
> >>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_grandluxe.jpg
> >>>
> >>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_specialparisien.jpg
> >>>
> >>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_1950_shift.jpg
> >>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/singer_1950.jpg
> >>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/singer_1960.jpg
> >>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/bikes/images/motobecane/motobecane.jpg
> >>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/porteur_052.jpg
> >>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/porteur_056.jpg
>
> > A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >> Fashion. It's a current product:
> >> http://www.e-cycle.co.jp/goods/detail.php?id=836&amp;genre=1
>
> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> > Thanks--so they're fashionable brake levers found on French utility
> > bikes, still available from Japan--that's just plain weird.
> > There are examples in "The Data Book" from France in 1950 and 1951
> > on pages 115 and 149.
>
> This bike just rolled in my door:
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/daily.html

Most practical townie. Only one change: drop bars.
Love the fork, mud guards and rack.

Is it in for maintenance?

--
Michael Press

[A Muzi]

>>>> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>>>> Why do so many of the brake levers on these French porteur bikes face
>>>>> forward instead of backward?
>>>>>
>>>>> Style? Internal cable routing? Some mechanical advantage?
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it just a French thing? They look like a different design, not just
>>>>> a backwards mount.
>>>>>
>>>>> Page with lots of them:
>>>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/velos.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Examples:
>>>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_grandluxe.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_specialparisien.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/goeland_1950_shift.jpg
>>>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/singer_1950.jpg
>>>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/singer_1960.jpg
>>>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/bikes/images/motobecane/motobecane.jpg
>>>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/porteur_052.jpg
>>>>> http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/images/porteur_056.jpg

>>> A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>> Fashion. It's a current product:
>>>> http://www.e-cycle.co.jp/goods/detail.php?id=836&amp;genre=1

>> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>> Thanks--so they're fashionable brake levers found on French utility
>>> bikes, still available from Japan--that's just plain weird.
>>> There are examples in "The Data Book" from France in 1950 and 1951
>>> on pages 115 and 149.

> A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> This bike just rolled in my door:
>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/daily.html

carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> Yes, "rolled" seems like the right word.
> Sell him some pedals.

Done. Gear cable too.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[A Muzi]

> A Muzi wrote:
>> This bike just rolled in my door:
>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/daily.html

Bill Sornson wrote:
> It's missing a LOT of parts!

Pedals and gear cable were the final bits. Done.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Bill Sornson]

A Muzi wrote:
>> A Muzi wrote:
>>> This bike just rolled in my door:
>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/daily.html
>
> Bill Sornson wrote:
>> It's missing a LOT of parts!
>
> Pedals and gear cable were the final bits. Done.

Ooops, my bad. Thought it was a fixie (or SS). Didn't even see the rear
brake first time.

Bill "gimme gears too big to miss" S.

[DanKMTB@gmail.com]

On Mar 27, 11:51*pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > A Muzi wrote:
> >> This bike just rolled in my door:
> >>http://www.yellowjersey.org/daily.html
> Bill Sornson wrote:
> > It's missing a LOT of parts!
>
> Pedals and gear cable were the final bits. Done.
> --
> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

2 questions, if you don't mind. What size are those tires and what
kind of fenders are those?

[Dave Lehnen]

M-gineering wrote:
> carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>
>> Why do so many of the brake levers on these French porteur bikes face
>> forward instead of backward?
>>
>> Style?
> of course
>
> Internal cable routing?
> yes
>
> Some mechanical advantage?
> the stronger fingers have more leverage
>>
>> Is it just a French thing?
>
> [looks up] Pedersen used them too
>
>

Another slight advantage, aside from better leverage from the stronger
fingers, would be reduced chance of a puncture wound in a crash. Just
don't ride too close to a child swinging a musette bag in a grand tour.

Dave Lehnen

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:04:24 +0100, M-gineering
<ikmotgeenspam@m-gineering.nl> wrote:

>carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>> Why do so many of the brake levers on these French porteur bikes face
>> forward instead of backward?
>>
>> Style?
>
>of course
>
>Internal cable routing?
>
>yes
>
>Some mechanical advantage?
>
>the stronger fingers have more leverage
>
>>
>> Is it just a French thing?
>
>[looks up] Pedersen used them too

Dear Marten,

You're right--I never noticed the levers on the early Pedersens:
http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1904_img/handlebar_grip.jpg
http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1905_1_img/lindemann9.jpg
http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1907_2_img/dp3sm.jpg

http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/various_img/1906_1/dursley1906a_big.jpg

Something else must have distracted me when I looked at them. :-)

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

[A Muzi]

>>> A Muzi wrote:
>>>> This bike just rolled in my door:
>>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/daily.html

>> Bill Sornson wrote:
>>> It's missing a LOT of parts!

> A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> Pedals and gear cable were the final bits. Done.

DanKMTB@gmail.com wrote:
> 2 questions, if you don't mind. What size are those tires and what
> kind of fenders are those?

He built his wheels on a Sturmey AW with regular tubular rims and the
mudguards are Honjo aluminum.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Hank]

On Mar 28, 11:30 am, Dave Lehnen <dcleh...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> M-gineering wrote:
> > carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
>
> >> Why do so many of the brake levers on these French porteur bikes face
> >> forward instead of backward?
>
> >> Style?
> > of course
>
> > Internal cable routing?
> > yes
>
> > Some mechanical advantage?
> > the stronger fingers have more leverage
>
> >> Is it just a French thing?
>
> > [looks up] Pedersen used them too
>
> Another slight advantage, aside from better leverage from the stronger
> fingers, would be reduced chance of a puncture wound in a crash. Just
> don't ride too close to a child swinging a musette bag in a grand tour.
>
> Dave Lehnen

Nashbar had a city bike in the mid-80s with reverse levers, claiming
they'd be less likely to snag on stuff and wouldn't engage by bumping
something you passed too close to. Like a pedestrian.

[Mike Elliott]

On 3/28/2008 1:21 PM carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:


> You're right--I never noticed the levers on the early Pedersens:
> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1904_img/handlebar_grip.jpg
> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1905_1_img/lindemann9.jpg
> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1907_2_img/dp3sm.jpg
>
> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/various_img/1906_1/dursley1906a_big.jpg
>
> Something else must have distracted me when I looked at them. :-)
>

Looks all kinda bouncy.

--
Mike RJS

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:56:13 -0700, Mike Elliott
<j.michael.elliott@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 3/28/2008 1:21 PM carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>
>
>> You're right--I never noticed the levers on the early Pedersens:
>> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1904_img/handlebar_grip.jpg
>> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1905_1_img/lindemann9.jpg
>> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1907_2_img/dp3sm.jpg
>>
>> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/various_img/1906_1/dursley1906a_big.jpg
>>
>> Something else must have distracted me when I looked at them. :-)
>>
>
>Looks all kinda bouncy.

Dear Mike,

Please, outside the trampoline world we prefer to say "smoothly
compliant" or "anti-vibratory."

In fact, Pedersen designed his unusual bicycle around his kinda bouncy
seat:

"I resolved to make a cycle frame which would carry the seat without
the necessity of having a special seat frame at all. In ordinary
'safety' I found the frames were so far from perfection that I had to
abandon that system entirely, with the exception of the two tubes
running from the bottom bracket to the rear wheel spindle."
http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/dp_history.html

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

[Mike Elliott]

On 3/28/2008 2:10 PM carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:56:13 -0700, Mike Elliott
> <j.michael.elliott@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 3/28/2008 1:21 PM carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>> You're right--I never noticed the levers on the early Pedersens:
>>> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1904_img/handlebar_grip.jpg
>>> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1905_1_img/lindemann9.jpg
>>> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1907_2_img/dp3sm.jpg
>>>
>>> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/various_img/1906_1/dursley1906a_big.jpg
>>>
>>> Something else must have distracted me when I looked at them. :-)
>>>
>> Looks all kinda bouncy.
>
> Dear Mike,
>
> Please, outside the trampoline world we prefer to say "smoothly
> compliant" or "anti-vibratory."

Call it what you will, I say it's bouncy.

What the heck is going on at the, er, head tube in this picture?
http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1905_1_img/lindemann9.jpg

It is surely one swell machine.

--
Mike RJS

[carlfogel@comcast.net]

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 13:41:35 -0700, Mike Elliott
<j.michael.elliott@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 3/28/2008 2:10 PM carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:56:13 -0700, Mike Elliott
>> <j.michael.elliott@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/28/2008 1:21 PM carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> You're right--I never noticed the levers on the early Pedersens:
>>>> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1904_img/handlebar_grip.jpg
>>>> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1905_1_img/lindemann9.jpg
>>>> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1907_2_img/dp3sm.jpg
>>>>
>>>> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/various_img/1906_1/dursley1906a_big.jpg
>>>>
>>>> Something else must have distracted me when I looked at them. :-)
>>>>
>>> Looks all kinda bouncy.
>>
>> Dear Mike,
>>
>> Please, outside the trampoline world we prefer to say "smoothly
>> compliant" or "anti-vibratory."
>
>Call it what you will, I say it's bouncy.
>
>What the heck is going on at the, er, head tube in this picture?
>http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1905_1_img/lindemann9.jpg
>
>It is surely one swell machine.

Dear Mike,

It's a bit complicated. Again, the whole idea of the Pedersen frame
was to provide two points, far apart, to sling the long hammock seat.

Here's the lower end of the steering arrangement, where four
front-wheel "fork" tubes bow out around the rectangular brace, which
attaches to the lower swivel point:
http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1905_1_img/lindemann10.jpg

Ignore the shiny rods, which are not frame rods. One is the front
brake, the other is the rear brake. The swivel point is just below the
rear brake rod elbow.

Up at the top, the four front-wheel "fork" tubes meet at the upper
swivel point, which is supported by the four--er, the four "down"
tubes:
http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1905_1_img/lindemann6.jpg

That well-braced upper support can hold a handlebar, or the bars can
be mounted lower on the four "fork" tubes like this:
http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1898_img/stor.jpg

Imagine a normal bike with a handlebar lashed to the fork crown.

This is the kind of suspension seat that Pedersen's frame design
avoided, an early Victor:
http://www.copakeauction.com/bicycles/2004-bicycles/013.jpg

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

[Mike Rocket J Squirrel]

On 3/28/2008 3:24 PM carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 13:41:35 -0700, Mike Elliott
> <j.michael.elliott@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 3/28/2008 2:10 PM carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:56:13 -0700, Mike Elliott
>>> <j.michael.elliott@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/28/2008 1:21 PM carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You're right--I never noticed the levers on the early Pedersens:
>>>>> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1904_img/handlebar_grip.jpg
>>>>> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1905_1_img/lindemann9.jpg
>>>>> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1907_2_img/dp3sm.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/various_img/1906_1/dursley1906a_big.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> Something else must have distracted me when I looked at them. :-)
>>>>>
>>>> Looks all kinda bouncy.
>>> Dear Mike,
>>>
>>> Please, outside the trampoline world we prefer to say "smoothly
>>> compliant" or "anti-vibratory."
>> Call it what you will, I say it's bouncy.
>>
>> What the heck is going on at the, er, head tube in this picture?
>> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1905_1_img/lindemann9.jpg
>>
>> It is surely one swell machine.
>
> Dear Mike,
>
> It's a bit complicated. Again, the whole idea of the Pedersen frame
> was to provide two points, far apart, to sling the long hammock seat.
>
> Here's the lower end of the steering arrangement, where four
> front-wheel "fork" tubes bow out around the rectangular brace, which
> attaches to the lower swivel point:
> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1905_1_img/lindemann10.jpg
>
> Ignore the shiny rods, which are not frame rods. One is the front
> brake, the other is the rear brake. The swivel point is just below the
> rear brake rod elbow.
>
> Up at the top, the four front-wheel "fork" tubes meet at the upper
> swivel point, which is supported by the four--er, the four "down"
> tubes:
> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1905_1_img/lindemann6.jpg
>
> That well-braced upper support can hold a handlebar, or the bars can
> be mounted lower on the four "fork" tubes like this:
> http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/originals/1898_img/stor.jpg
>
> Imagine a normal bike with a handlebar lashed to the fork crown.
>
> This is the kind of suspension seat that Pedersen's frame design
> avoided, an early Victor:
> http://www.copakeauction.com/bicycles/2004-bicycles/013.jpg
>

Amazing stuff. Presumably the rear brake control rod did not rotate with
the "fork", judging by the rear brake rod's termination above the down tube.

The best part, to me? What appears to be heavy nickel plating on many of
the parts. It's a lovely finish.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"