Local race

[joseph.santaniello@gmail.com]

Hi All,

The season's first race was on Sunday. 5 laps of 15km over rolling
terrain with 2 short steep hills. I've posted the profile previously.
There are sharp turns right at the start of each steep hill, so you
can't really carry any speed into the hills. It's tough.

74 starters in 3C (37F) and rain. Winds out of the north at 7 m/s
(15mph) with gusts higher. Not exactly the best weather for a bike
race!

I was in position about 15 at the start, but had trouble getting into
my pedal, so I slipped back to mid-pack immediately. The first few
km's were sort of flat, so I charged up the windward side and put
myself back into about 10th spot. Everyone was doing their best to
find someone to hide behind and some guys were in a bad way. Up the
first hill, I was at the edge of the road, and some guys right in
front of me got a little tangled and I had to jam on the brakes. I
still managed to more or less hold my position and muscle up the hill
without too much trouble. Over the top the road swung around for sort
of a tailwind. We were blazing along at over 60km/h which was rough
for some guys. I was loving it. I was a little nervous about the
cracks in the road and the fact that the road was open for traffic,
but at least we were in farm country with good visibility. Soon we
rolled up at the tight right hander before the steep hill. It's nerve
wracking because it is a chicane over a narrow bridge, and zero
visibility for potential oncoming cars. Add a 60+ km/h approach and
freezing rain, and I choose to apply brakes. This is when I realized
that while I was in about 20th spot, I was near the back. At least
half the guys were already gone. This hill is about 10-12%, but only
about 25m altitude gain. It's short but hard. I was about 20m off the
back at the top. I just couldn't stomp hard enough. At the top we
turned into the wind. I was able to hold the gap to about 50-100m for
almost 10km. Then it started to grow and I was not able to keep up. I
caught a few others off the back, but they couldn't keep up, so I rode
the remaining 70km alone. My finish time was 2:20 for an average of
32km/h. The official results haven't been posted yet, but about 12
guys finished in the "group" and about 8-10 others finished off the
back. The rest quit at one point or another, most in the first lap.

Here are some pics:

http://www.nanset-sykkel.no/bilder/bildearkiv/rondevanberg08/bilder.htm

The photographer must have been taking a leak when I passed.

This is more or less how it goes at most races. Not having categories
makes lots of folks not show up. Only really strong guys and gluttons
for punishment. Some of the guys in the lead group do 10km ITT's at
49-50km/h.

If they had categories, it wouldn't have been 74 racers, but 174, and
a lot more finishers.

Joseph

[Tom Kunich]

Congratulations on your race Joe. Hang in there and race often enough and
you'll find yourself in the front pack.

[Ryan Cousineau]

On Apr 7, 12:56*am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> The season's first race was on Sunday. 5 laps of 15km over rolling
> terrain with 2 short steep hills. I've posted the profile previously.
> There are sharp turns right at the start of each steep hill, so you
> can't really carry any speed into the hills. It's tough.
>
> 74 starters in 3C (37F) and rain. Winds out of the north at 7 m/s
> (15mph) with gusts higher. Not exactly the best weather for a bike
> race!

What would Jens Voight do?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EY7lYRneHc

> I was in position about 15 at the start, but had trouble getting into
> my pedal, so I slipped back to mid-pack immediately. The first few
> km's were sort of flat, so I charged up the windward side and put
> myself back into about 10th spot. Everyone was doing their best to
> find someone to hide behind and some guys were in a bad way. Up the
> first hill, I was at the edge of the road, and some guys right in
> front of me got a little tangled and I had to jam on the brakes. I
> still managed to more or less hold my position and muscle up the hill
> without too much trouble. Over the top the road swung around for sort
> of a tailwind. We were blazing along at over 60km/h which was rough
> for some guys. I was loving it. I was a little nervous about the
> cracks in the road and the fact that the road was open for traffic,
> but at least we were in farm country with good visibility. Soon we
> rolled up at the tight right hander before the steep hill. It's nerve
> wracking because it is a chicane over a narrow bridge, and zero
> visibility for potential oncoming cars. Add a 60+ km/h approach and
> freezing rain, and I choose to apply brakes. This is when I realized
> that while I was in about 20th spot, I was near the back. At least
> half the guys were already gone. This hill is about 10-12%, but only
> about 25m altitude gain. It's short but hard. I was about 20m off the
> back at the top. I just couldn't stomp hard enough. At the top we
> turned into the wind. I was able to hold the gap to about 50-100m for
> almost 10km. Then it started to grow and I was not able to keep up. I
> caught a few others off the back, but they couldn't keep up, so I rode
> the remaining 70km alone. My finish time was 2:20 for an average of
> 32km/h. The official results haven't been posted yet, but about 12
> guys finished in the "group" and about 8-10 others finished off the
> back. The rest quit at one point or another, most in the first lap.

32 km/h during a 70km solo is quite respectable.

But what the heck is with hanging 50-100m off the pack for 10km? That
is impressive, but an obvious failure of tactics and will.

Lesson to learn: when you are 20m off the pack at the top of the hill,
you sprint back into the pack. No matter how gutted you feel, or how
much it hurts, you sprint full-anaerobic and get back in there. The
fact you could stay dangled but in sight for 10 km means you had the
matches to get into the pack, but you weren't willing to burn them all
at once.

Most new racers have been there, but the lesson remains: always get
back into the back as soon as possible, because you can recover once
you're in, and it never gets easier to get back. If you go all-out and
fail to get back into the pack, well, you're no worse off than before,
but your chances of succeeding during a long slow chase are low. Time
works in favor of the pack.

Also, it's not insane, in retrospect, to attack the pack in advance of
a technical bit like that chicane before the mini-climb. The goal is
not to escape, it's to position yourself so that you're at the front
of the pack at the start of the climb, and so you slip to the back of
the pack (instead of off the back) at the top of the climb. This is
the standard hill-hating-cyclist tactic.

Other than that, congrats!

> This is more or less how it goes at most races. Not having categories
> makes lots of folks not show up. Only really strong guys and gluttons
> for punishment. Some of the guys in the lead group do 10km ITT's at
> 49-50km/h.
>
> If they had categories, it wouldn't have been 74 racers, but 174, and
> a lot more finishers.

This baffles me. Even 74 racers should be enough to run at least three
credible categories, and locally, 174 would be lots for 3 men's races
and 2 women's races. A race with 10 starters is a bit lame, but with
20 starters of similar ability, you can usually get something
resembling a real race going. Are the organizers limited by number of
volunteers (on an open-course race??) or
amount of time they can get the roads for, or sheer apathy, or what?

[Colin Campbell]

Way to go, Joseph!

I hope your next race goes even better.

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

On Apr 7, 12:56*am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> The season's first race was on Sunday. 5 laps of 15km over rolling
> terrain with 2 short steep hills. I've posted the profile previously.
> There are sharp turns right at the start of each steep hill, so you
> can't really carry any speed into the hills. It's tough.
>
> 74 starters in 3C (37F) and rain. Winds out of the north at 7 m/s
> (15mph) with gusts higher. Not exactly the best weather for a bike
> race!
>
> I was in position about 15 at the start, but had trouble getting into
> my pedal, so I slipped back to mid-pack immediately. The first few
> km's were sort of flat, so I charged up the windward side and put
> myself back into about 10th spot. Everyone was doing their best to
> find someone to hide behind and some guys were in a bad way. Up the
> first hill, I was at the edge of the road, and some guys right in
> front of me got a little tangled and I had to jam on the brakes. I
> still managed to more or less hold my position and muscle up the hill
> without too much trouble. Over the top the road swung around for sort
> of a tailwind. We were blazing along at over 60km/h which was rough
> for some guys. I was loving it. I was a little nervous about the
> cracks in the road and the fact that the road was open for traffic,
> but at least we were in farm country with good visibility. Soon we
> rolled up at the tight right hander before the steep hill. It's nerve
> wracking because it is a chicane over a narrow bridge, and zero
> visibility for potential oncoming cars. Add a 60+ km/h approach and
> freezing rain, and I choose to apply brakes. This is when I realized
> that while I was in about 20th spot, I was near the back. At least
> half the guys were already gone. This hill is about 10-12%, but only
> about 25m altitude gain. It's short but hard. I was about 20m off the
> back at the top. I just couldn't stomp hard enough. At the top we
> turned into the wind. I was able to hold the gap to about 50-100m for
> almost 10km.

Dumbass,

Go anaerobic for 5 seconds to get tacked back on. Never wait.

Anyways, nice report and nice job. Keep going.

> Then it started to grow and I was not able to keep up. I
> caught a few others off the back, but they couldn't keep up, so I rode
> the remaining 70km alone. My finish time was 2:20 for an average of
> 32km/h. The official results haven't been posted yet, but about 12
> guys finished in the "group" and about 8-10 others finished off the
> back. The rest quit at one point or another, most in the first lap.
>
> Here are some pics:
>
> http://www.nanset-sykkel.no/bilder/bildearkiv/rondevanberg08/bilder.htm
>
> The photographer must have been taking a leak when I passed.
>
> This is more or less how it goes at most races. Not having categories
> makes lots of folks not show up. Only really strong guys and gluttons
> for punishment. Some of the guys in the lead group do 10km ITT's at
> 49-50km/h.
>
> If they had categories, it wouldn't have been 74 racers, but 174, and
> a lot more finishers.
>
> Joseph

[joseph.santaniello@gmail.com]

On Apr 7, 8:41*pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 7, 12:56*am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
>
> <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi All,
>
> > The season's first race was on Sunday. 5 laps of 15km over rolling
> > terrain with 2 short steep hills. I've posted the profile previously.
> > There are sharp turns right at the start of each steep hill, so you
> > can't really carry any speed into the hills. It's tough.
>
> > 74 starters in 3C (37F) and rain. Winds out of the north at 7 m/s
> > (15mph) with gusts higher. Not exactly the best weather for a bike
> > race!
>
> What would Jens Voight do?
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EY7lYRneHc
>
>
>
> > I was in position about 15 at the start, but had trouble getting into
> > my pedal, so I slipped back to mid-pack immediately. The first few
> > km's were sort of flat, so I charged up the windward side and put
> > myself back into about 10th spot. Everyone was doing their best to
> > find someone to hide behind and some guys were in a bad way. Up the
> > first hill, I was at the edge of the road, and some guys right in
> > front of me got a little tangled and I had to jam on the brakes. I
> > still managed to more or less hold my position and muscle up the hill
> > without too much trouble. Over the top the road swung around for sort
> > of a tailwind. We were blazing along at over 60km/h which was rough
> > for some guys. I was loving it. I was a little nervous about the
> > cracks in the road and the fact that the road was open for traffic,
> > but at least we were in farm country with good visibility. Soon we
> > rolled up at the tight right hander before the steep hill. It's nerve
> > wracking because it is a chicane over a narrow bridge, and zero
> > visibility for potential oncoming cars. Add a 60+ km/h approach and
> > freezing rain, and I choose to apply brakes. This is when I realized
> > that while I was in about 20th spot, I was near the back. At least
> > half the guys were already gone. This hill is about 10-12%, but only
> > about 25m altitude gain. It's short but hard. I was about 20m off the
> > back at the top. I just couldn't stomp hard enough. At the top we
> > turned into the wind. I was able to hold the gap to about 50-100m for
> > almost 10km. Then it started to grow and I was not able to keep up. I
> > caught a few others off the back, but they couldn't keep up, so I rode
> > the remaining 70km alone. My finish time was 2:20 for an average of
> > 32km/h. The official results haven't been posted yet, but about 12
> > guys finished in the "group" and about 8-10 others finished off the
> > back. The rest quit at one point or another, most in the first lap.
>
> 32 km/h during a 70km solo is quite respectable.

I was chuffed. I held off a group of 4 behind me, and didn't lose time
on a group of 5 in front.

>
> But what the heck is with hanging 50-100m off the pack for 10km? That
> is impressive, but an obvious failure of tactics and will.
>
> Lesson to learn: when you are 20m off the pack at the top of the hill,
> you sprint back into the pack. No matter how gutted you feel, or how
> much it hurts, you sprint full-anaerobic and get back in there. The
> fact you could stay dangled but in sight for 10 km means you had the
> matches to get into the pack, but you weren't willing to burn them all
> at once.


My legs just wouldn't go faster or harder. It didn't hurt all that
bad, they were just jelly. I tried a monster jump, but it just went
nowhere. But you're right. Rather than focus on trying to reel them
in, I should have kept trying full on attacks, in the hopes one of
them might have worked.

It may be rationalization of sorts, but I think I can keep a
reasonably high power output (for my general fitness level), but turbo-
boosts are lacking in max power. Based on the GPS data from a buddy, I
would have needed to stomp 1000W up the short hill where I got dropped
to keep the pace. That didn't happen. Maybe I managed 900, but then I
didn't have any juice left to grab those 20m before it was too late.


>
> Most new racers have been there, but the lesson remains: always get
> back into the back as soon as possible, because you can recover once
> you're in, and it never gets easier to get back. If you go all-out and
> fail to get back into the pack, well, you're no worse off than before,
> but your chances of succeeding during a long slow chase are low. Time
> works in favor of the pack.
>
> Also, it's not insane, in retrospect, to attack the pack in advance of
> a technical bit like that chicane before the mini-climb. The goal is
> not to escape, it's to position yourself so that you're at the front
> of the pack at the start of the climb, and so you slip to the back of
> the pack (instead of off the back) at the top of the climb. This is
> the standard hill-hating-cyclist tactic.

I was thinking about it but as there was a tailwind and I was already
spinning my 12, it would have taken balls I don't have to charge the
narrow blind wet corner ahead of these nutters.

> Other than that, congrats!

I'm pleased I was able to keep negative thought out of my head, and I
kept the steam on 99.9% of the time. I still got dropped like the
other times, but my personal performance was much better and more
positive.

>
> > This is more or less how it goes at most races. Not having categories
> > makes lots of folks not show up. Only really strong guys and gluttons
> > for punishment. Some of the guys in the lead group do 10km ITT's at
> > 49-50km/h.
>
> > If they had categories, it wouldn't have been 74 racers, but 174, and
> > a lot more finishers.
>
> This baffles me. Even 74 racers should be enough to run at least three
> credible categories, and locally, 174 would be lots for 3 men's races
> and 2 women's races. A race with 10 starters is a bit lame, but with
> 20 starters of similar ability, you can usually get something
> resembling a real race going. Are the organizers limited by number of
> volunteers (on an open-course race??) or
> amount of time they can get the roads for, or sheer apathy, or what?

In the old days (80's) I heard they had categories. Interest in
cycling dropped hugely for some reason. I guess at some point
categories didn't make sense anymore. It isn't the local organizers
just, but the national association that don't have categories. In th
elast few years interest has risen again, so the feilds have gotten
bigger. Now the time is ripe to bring them back, but it's hard to get
it going.*

Logistically there is no reason not to have 2 classes. Circuit races
on lightly trafficed roads. There is usually 1 lead car, 2-3
motorcycles, and a few follow cars. Usually 1-2 ambulances parked out
on the course. Occasionally volunteers standing at intersections, but
usually that is the job of a motorcycle guy. The local motorcycle
clubs are always ready to help. I guess it's fun for them too. They
take it very serioulsy, and as fellow 2-wheeled folks they know how
best to deal with cars. They do an excellent job. It would pose no
problem to get another lead car for a second group.

Last year I brought this to the attention of the organizers of a local
series, and they tried to get a second group going but they called it
the "tour" group which is the name they give the citizens class with
no timing at charity rides and that sort of thing. And there was no
enforcement, they just asked everyone which race they wanted to be in
at check-in. And everyone chose the fast group, except for like 2 fat
guys. This cemented the fate of the "tour" class, even though 60% of
the riders who chose the fast group got dropped like stones.

* I'd bring this to the attention of the national federation, but they
are in the middle of their own ASO-UCI type argument with th
eorganizers of the popular cyclo-sportive events which are what the
vast majority of competitive cycling is in Norway.

Joseph

[dustoyevsky@mac.com]

On Apr 7, 2:20*pm, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EY7lYRneHc

> My legs just wouldn't go faster or harder. It didn't hurt all that
> bad, they were just jelly. I tried a monster jump, but it just went
> nowhere. But you're right. Rather than focus on trying to reel them
> in, I should have kept trying full on attacks, in the hopes one of
> them might have worked.

Now or never.

> It may be rationalization of sorts, but I think I can keep a
> reasonably high power output (for my general fitness level), but turbo-
> boosts are lacking in max power. Based on the GPS data from a buddy, I
> would have needed to stomp 1000W up the short hill where I got dropped
> to keep the pace. That didn't happen. Maybe I managed 900, but then I
> didn't have any juice left to grab those 20m before it was too late.

Motorpacing, with short sprints and recovery at speed. Some of the
improvement you can gain is physical, but a lot of it is mental-- it's
not a matter of "courage" so much as one of belief <g>.

Congrats, you didn't ride over your head and crash. --D-y

[Howard Kveck]

In article <97a208cd-ef54-4299-ad00-a897e15ec298@a9g2000prl.googlegroups.com>,
"joseph.santaniello@gmail.com" <joseph.santaniello@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Apr 7, 8:41*pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Also, it's not insane, in retrospect, to attack the pack in advance of
> > a technical bit like that chicane before the mini-climb. The goal is
> > not to escape, it's to position yourself so that you're at the front
> > of the pack at the start of the climb, and so you slip to the back of
> > the pack (instead of off the back) at the top of the climb. This is
> > the standard hill-hating-cyclist tactic.
>
> I was thinking about it but as there was a tailwind and I was already
> spinning my 12, it would have taken balls I don't have to charge the
> narrow blind wet corner ahead of these nutters.
>
> > Other than that, congrats!
>
> I'm pleased I was able to keep negative thought out of my head, and I
> kept the steam on 99.9% of the time. I still got dropped like the
> other times, but my personal performance was much better and more
> positive.

I'd say that last phrase is the good one in this. Even if your legs were jelly at
a critical point in the race, you did make it to the end and that's obviously an
achievement in itself. I'd agree with Ryan that getting to the front of the group
just before the short climb would have made getting back on easier, as you might have
not actually gotten dropped at the top. Of course, charging to the front just before
the climb might have precipitated a bump in speed by the stronger riders (who may not
have understood why you were doing it, or who may not have wanted your move to
work...). But the important thing was that it seems like you learned a few things and
came away with a good feeling about how you performed - both can help in the future.

--
tanx,
Howard

Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an icepick
That made his ears burn.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

[Marian]

On Apr 8, 3:20 am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Last year I brought this to the attention of the organizers of a local
> series, and they tried to get a second group going but they called it
> the "tour" group which is the name they give the citizens class with
> no timing at charity rides and that sort of thing. And there was no
> enforcement, they just asked everyone which race they wanted to be in
> at check-in. And everyone chose the fast group, except for like 2 fat
> guys. This cemented the fate of the "tour" class, even though 60% of
> the riders who chose the fast group got dropped like stones.

I'm wondering when classes are going to be introduced for amateur
racers in China.

We had 75 people at time trial two weeks ago (I took 35th place -
yay!), will have well over 100 at next weekend's race, and are hosting
a nationwide Shimano Bikers' Festival in October so it's definitely
starting to be time when people were getting matched against people in
their own skillset.

Age groups don't really work since the same people can be predicted to
always win their age group and with the general dearth of women racers
(though we were up to double digits at the last two races) really
means that Ling, Chunlei, and me ought to be riding against/with men.

The hue and outcry at my first national race was that the winners were
actually the second tier riders for one of the Chinese professional
teams and didn't belong at an amateur race.

The hue and outcry at my third was that the winners had been retired
sufficiently long enough from real international professional racing
(over 20 years) and had deliberately signed up for the fastest race
(which they were already technically disqualified from due to being
something like 15 years over the age limit for) that it was wrong for
the organizers to declare third and fourth place to be first and
second.

-M

[joseph.santaniello@gmail.com]

On Apr 8, 1:51*pm, Marian <marian.rosenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 8, 3:20 am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
>
> <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Last year I brought this to the attention of the organizers of a local
> > series, and they tried to get a second group going but they called it
> > the "tour" group which is the name they give the citizens class with
> > no timing at charity rides and that sort of thing. And there was no
> > enforcement, they just asked everyone which race they wanted to be in
> > at check-in. And everyone chose the fast group, except for like 2 fat
> > guys. This cemented the fate of the "tour" class, even though 60% of
> > the riders who chose the fast group got dropped like stones.
>
> I'm wondering when classes are going to be introduced for amateur
> racers in China.
>
> We had 75 people at time trial two weeks ago (I took 35th place -
> yay!), will have well over 100 at next weekend's race, and are hosting
> a nationwide Shimano Bikers' Festival in October so it's definitely
> starting to be time when people were getting matched against people in
> their own skillset.
>
> Age groups don't really work since the same people can be predicted to
> always win their age group and with the general dearth of women racers
> (though we were up to double digits at the last two races) really
> means that Ling, Chunlei, and me ought to be riding against/with men.
>
> The hue and outcry at my first national race was that the winners were
> actually the second tier riders for one of the Chinese professional
> teams and didn't belong at an amateur race.
>
> The hue and outcry at my third was that the winners had been retired
> sufficiently long enough from real international professional racing
> (over 20 years) and had deliberately signed up for the fastest race
> (which they were already technically disqualified from due to being
> something like 15 years over the age limit for) that it was wrong for
> the organizers to declare third and fourth place to be first and
> second.
>
> -M

I'll bet China gets them before Norway.

Joseph

[joseph.santaniello@gmail.com]

On Apr 8, 4:53*pm, Colin Campbell <cmca...@adelphia.net> wrote:
> Way to go, Joseph!
>
> I hope your next race goes even better.

I'm sure it will. The next one is on April 22 on the same course. This
time it is part of a series. I just spoke with the organizer and they
are going to have 2 categories. It's voluntary which group riders
choose to be in, so we'll see if anyone other than me chooses group 2.
Hopefully the events of last Sunday will be fresh in everyone's mind
so they will choose appropriately.

I heard that a popular similar series in Oslo has just been cancelled.
That means probably even more bad-asses will drive down here to race
in ours. That should help too.

Joseph