Winning stages is stupid

[Snack]

Celebrating individual stage victories is just another sign that the
sport is Dry Humping The Gorilla

http://velonews.com/photo/76771

[GoneBeforeMyTime]

"Geraard Spergen" <GeraardSpergen@spammagnet.net> wrote in message
news:028ad879$0$25015$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> alanstew@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>> On May 29, 9:42 am, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroForums.com> wrote:
>>> Riddle me this, is cycling a individual sport or a team sport?
>>>
>>> Big snip <
>>
>> Axel Merckx pulled for Floyd Landis in the TdF on the big comeback...
>> and a few years before Floyd did the same for Lance.
>>
>> Patton won some battles, but Eisenhower gets credit for winning the
>> war.
>>
>> Winning stages ISN'T stupid, it's just part of a bigger picture.
>> Since they're all there anyway, why not spread around some glory to
>> stage winners?
>>
>> ABS
>
> Hell, winning stages is the only thing that counts. Stage racing is
> stupid except for the fact that every day is a new race. Crossing the
> line first... that's what bike racing was meant to be.

I enjoy cycling much more from a philosophical standpoint then from a
logical standpoint, where helps to me to tolerate all the shortcomings, but
for me, cycling will always be an individual sport.

GBMT

[GoneBeforeMyTime]

"MagillaGorilla" <magilla@zoo.com> wrote in message
news:qKCdnTz4Bp9DEKPVnZ2dnUVZ_ofinZ2d@ptd.net...
>> MagillaGorilla <magilla@zoo.com> wrote:

> That's the mentality that's destroying the sport right there.
>
> Magilla

Riddle me this, is cycling a individual sport or a team sport?



21 winners and U-Boat commander, yeah, I have agreed with friends for years
that stage racing is actually pretty corny, the way its run, and all kinds
of things from presentations to all the competitions, which the women even
have more of these things like most elegant and such, although I have always
admired structure and certain types of rituals which brings things into
context. You can logically argue cycling to be a team sport, but to me, I
have always admired cycling as an individual sport, and indeed many writer
often write about cycling as an individual sport. However only one person
gets to win, gets the lion's share of the glory, gets the prizes, even
though its split with mates sometimes, but also he is the one who gets
written in the history books as the winner. He is the one who will likely
get on the best team the following year and go to the Olympics, etc, etc.
Its winner take all, so then how is this a team sport? If its a team sport,
then the whole team should be awarded the win, but cycling is the only sport
called a team sport I can think of offhand, where the team is not given the
win, but rather only one person gets the win, most of the glory and all the
perks that come with that. In Baseball, Basketball, Football, Hockey, just
about any sport you can think of, the team gets the win in team sports, not
one person only.



How many sports can you name that are team sports where only one person gets
the win?





Cycling as a recreational sport is way cool, but professional bike racing is
full of problems and contradictions like this. There are many things that
don't make sense at all, but road cycling is waning, has been ever since the
creation of the MB bike, and especially the doping scandals. I got one of
the first one every made, a Rock Hopper with a Scott shock, and I quickly
hung up my road bike in favor of off road riding and have been hooked every
sense. Ironically I have no interest in MB and Cross events, mainly I guess
because I am not attracted to mud in general, but also girls with mud caked
to their faces, bikes and clothes. I don't get excited much about the cheap
thrills and technical maneuvers of MB riders flying through the air doing
360's and such, as I rather admire the pure cardio efforts of climbers on a
big mountain stage, but that's not exciting to a public who are constantly
being pumped full of special effects in sports and movies and have been to
addicted to those effects for years like crack addicts.



Road cycling is not exciting to the new generation, when you have a tour
which runs for three weeks and is mostly boring except a few moments that
wakes couch potatoes out of their sleep with a few exciting sprints and a
few exciting moments in the mountains. So race promoters have enhanced races
to make them more exciting in various ways over the years in efforts to keep
an increasing bored public onboard. If you look at what's on TV now, its
mostly all quick cheap tricks and thrills of the latest MB riders flying
through the air while doing a record amount of turns and twists and then
landing on a narrow log briefly while jumping to some other rock over a
cliff or something outrageous.



That's the mindset of the media and what the masses of TV crack addicts
want to see. The complexities of road racing, and the long hours of boredom
punctuated by a few brief moments of excitement just doesn't fly with most
Americans since they are the most creatively entertained audience in the
world. Add to that, sports like Nascar are spending billions on TV
commercials, and there is no way cycling can compete with that. But all
these sports are arena type sports, Nascar, Baseball, Basketball, Hockey,
Football, Tennis, etc, etc, are all contained in an building or arena where
they can either go round and round in circles, or contained in such a way
that couch potatoes don't have to leave their seats to enjoy, while eating
hot dogs and popcorn.



You can't do that with stage races, in fact its the complete opposite and a
total absurdity in that regard. To follow a stage race, you must drive to
the next city and get a hotel, and then go out to get a brief glimpse of the
race going by or catch the sprint at the finish line. Thereby all that
tremendous amount of trouble just to see a few seconds of glory at the
finish line. Who in their right mind would want to be a fan of a sport which
is such a tremendous hassle to follow, when they can go to a ballgame and
sit there and watch it for a few hours while being waited on hand and foot
by vendors who cater everything to their beckon call at the snap of the
fingers while they watch the game play out in an ballpark or arena? Only
Track cycling really makes any sense to these types of fans, and it was
bigger then baseball in the early years in arenas. The only way one day
classics and stage races will ever be really popular is through superb TV
coverage nationwide, and lots of it. Plus they will have to work really hard
to make it exciting, spending billions like what Nascar are doing. But then
is Nascar a team sport?, you only have one winner, winner takes all,
although again ironically the driver has a team working behind the scenes
and in the pit. While cycling is considered a team sport, its full of
contradictions and problems since really only one person wins, and no one
remembers 2nd place, and never beyond the three top podium positions.



As incredibly sophisticated as cycling is, it also has too many complexities
to really understand how good any one rider is with its UCI rankings, world
cup rankings, and such, since teams are often doing the work while helping
that person win and get to a certain place in the rankings, so since its a
team sport, it screws up individual rankings. If cycling was a truly
individual sport, then we might have a much more accurate system on truly
how good any one individual might be, but the idea of only one winner versus
a whole team like in Baseball makes cycling an absurdity in many ways. The
winner of a cycling event is called the "MAN". Its the same in the World and
the Olympics. Its the winner of the world cup, world cup ranking and UCI
world class ranking is what counts, not the team. Everyone remembers the
"MAN", not the team. Lance won 7 tours, he's the "MAN", but what about his
team Postal? Ah, dud, what about um? Lance won 7 tours, not his team! Yet,
cycling is called a team sport!!



A good example is Marta Bastianelli who won the worlds. Clearly it was her
team who did superb teamwork in that race, but it was Marta who was lucky
enough to be in the winning position, and take the last leg of the relay so
to speak which Vos didn't follow. However clearly, look at who's getting the
glory now? Its Marta who got the big celebration back in Italy, not the
team. It was Marta who getting all the perks and that killer frame posted on
CN. Yes, its the winner take all mentality by default, and often the team
either gets nothing or is not remembered in the history books, not in a big
way! Cycling is an absurdity as a team sport, but that's the way it is.
Doesn't everyone on the winning team in the World Series get a ring, which
means they are all equally winners as a team. Team sports are supposed to be
a statement about the team, equally, fully as a team, but cycling is not in
this regard.



GBMT

[Donald Munro]

GoneBeforeMyTime wrote:
>> Take one of those German sausages and shove it up your butt.

Kyle Legate wrote:
> There are so many to choose from. Which one gives you the best sensations?

Deja Vu II.

[Kyle Legate]

derFahrer@gmail.com wrote:
> On May 31, 4:04 am, Kyle Legate <lega...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Take one of those German sausages and shove it up your butt.
>> There are so many to choose from. Which one gives you the best sensations?
>
> you're in Munich, right? Then Weisswurst, naturally. But only before
> noon, and with a pretzel and mustard. And you have to squeeze it out
> of the casing.

To keep this relatively on topic, you have to wash it all down with a
Weissbier.

[alanstew@sbcglobal.net]

On May 28, 10:46*am, Snack <sn...@snackshack.com> wrote:
> Celebrating individual stage victories is just another sign that the
> sport is Dry Humping The Gorilla
>
> http://velonews.com/photo/76771

Ah, but isn't it nice to know that an albino can grow up to win a
stage in the Giro rather than becoming a cold-blooded killer for
Christ?
Yeah, try thinking of it that way.
ABS

[Steve Freides]

"Snack" <snack@snackshack.com> wrote in message
news:HJidnaaXWcKxBqDVnZ2dnUVZ_ozinZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> Celebrating individual stage victories is just another sign that the
> sport is Dry Humping The Gorilla
>
> http://velonews.com/photo/76771

Is there something about riding a bicycle that causes people to write
things like this?

-S-

[MagillaGorilla]

Snack wrote:
> Celebrating individual stage victories is just another sign that the
> sport is Dry Humping The Gorilla
>
> http://velonews.com/photo/76771
>


What the **** is he so happy about - did he win the race or something?
You don't have 21 "winners" in the Giro. There's only 1 winner.

Magilla

[Howard Kveck]

In article <8930f83d-e533-4b79-a592-baf146f08eb6@f24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
alanstew@sbcglobal.net wrote:

> On May 28, 10:46*am, Snack <sn...@snackshack.com> wrote:
> > Celebrating individual stage victories is just another sign that the
> > sport is Dry Humping The Gorilla
> >
> > http://velonews.com/photo/76771
>
> Ah, but isn't it nice to know that an albino can grow up to win a
> stage in the Giro rather than becoming a cold-blooded killer for
> Christ?
> Yeah, try thinking of it that way.
> ABS

I wonder where he gets the sweat-resistant SPF 250.

--
tanx,
Howard

Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an icepick
That made his ears burn.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

[Michael Press]

In article <N82dnV9iz6vHeqDVnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@ptd.net>,
MagillaGorilla <magilla@zoo.com> wrote:

> Snack wrote:
> > Celebrating individual stage victories is just another sign that the
> > sport is Dry Humping The Gorilla
> >
> > http://velonews.com/photo/76771
> >
>
>
> What the **** is he so happy about - did he win the race or something?
> You don't have 21 "winners" in the Giro. There's only 1 winner.

Everybody's a winner. Even you.

--
Michael Press

[Kyle Legate]

GoneBeforeMyTime wrote:
>
> I enjoy cycling much more from a philosophical standpoint then from a
> logical standpoint, where helps to me to tolerate all the shortcomings, but
> for me, cycling will always be an individual sport.
>
Is that because nobody wants to ride with you?

[MagillaGorilla]

GoneBeforeMyTime wrote:

> "Geraard Spergen" <GeraardSpergen@spammagnet.net> wrote in message
> news:028ad879$0$25015$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
>
>>alanstew@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>>
>>>On May 29, 9:42 am, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroForums.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Riddle me this, is cycling a individual sport or a team sport?
>>>>
>>>>Big snip <
>>>
>>>Axel Merckx pulled for Floyd Landis in the TdF on the big comeback...
>>>and a few years before Floyd did the same for Lance.
>>>
>>>Patton won some battles, but Eisenhower gets credit for winning the
>>>war.
>>>
>>>Winning stages ISN'T stupid, it's just part of a bigger picture.
>>>Since they're all there anyway, why not spread around some glory to
>>>stage winners?
>>>
>>>ABS
>>
>>Hell, winning stages is the only thing that counts. Stage racing is
>>stupid except for the fact that every day is a new race. Crossing the
>>line first... that's what bike racing was meant to be.
>
>
> I enjoy cycling much more from a philosophical standpoint then from a
> logical standpoint, where helps to me to tolerate all the shortcomings, but
> for me, cycling will always be an individual sport.
>
> GBMT


Then you may want to tell the riders who win and thank their teammates
"for whom my victory wouldn't have been possible" to stop lying.

Magilla

[alanstew@sbcglobal.net]

On May 29, 9:42*am, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroForums.com> wrote:
> Riddle me this, is cycling a individual sport or a team sport?
>
> Big snip <

Axel Merckx pulled for Floyd Landis in the TdF on the big comeback...
and a few years before Floyd did the same for Lance.

Patton won some battles, but Eisenhower gets credit for winning the
war.

Winning stages ISN'T stupid, it's just part of a bigger picture.
Since they're all there anyway, why not spread around some glory to
stage winners?

ABS

[MagillaGorilla]

GoneBeforeMyTime wrote:

> "MagillaGorilla" <magilla@zoo.com> wrote in message
> news:qKCdnTz4Bp9DEKPVnZ2dnUVZ_ofinZ2d@ptd.net...
>
>>> MagillaGorilla <magilla@zoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>That's the mentality that's destroying the sport right there.
>>
>>Magilla
>
>
> Riddle me this, is cycling a individual sport or a team sport?
>
>


Cycling is a team sport.

Magilla

[Geraard Spergen]

alanstew@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> On May 29, 9:42 am, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroForums.com> wrote:
>> Riddle me this, is cycling a individual sport or a team sport?
>>
>> Big snip <
>
> Axel Merckx pulled for Floyd Landis in the TdF on the big comeback...
> and a few years before Floyd did the same for Lance.
>
> Patton won some battles, but Eisenhower gets credit for winning the
> war.
>
> Winning stages ISN'T stupid, it's just part of a bigger picture.
> Since they're all there anyway, why not spread around some glory to
> stage winners?
>
> ABS

Hell, winning stages is the only thing that counts. Stage racing is
stupid except for the fact that every day is a new race. Crossing the
line first... that's what bike racing was meant to be.

[MagillaGorilla]

Geraard Spergen wrote:

> alanstew@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>
>> On May 29, 9:42 am, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroForums.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Riddle me this, is cycling a individual sport or a team sport?
>>>
>>> Big snip <
>>
>>
>> Axel Merckx pulled for Floyd Landis in the TdF on the big comeback...
>> and a few years before Floyd did the same for Lance.
>>
>> Patton won some battles, but Eisenhower gets credit for winning the
>> war.
>>
>> Winning stages ISN'T stupid, it's just part of a bigger picture.
>> Since they're all there anyway, why not spread around some glory to
>> stage winners?
>>
>> ABS
>
>
> Hell, winning stages is the only thing that counts. Stage racing is
> stupid except for the fact that every day is a new race. Crossing the
> line first... that's what bike racing was meant to be.


Hey dumbass,

The best racers in a stage race don't even contend for each stage. So
winning a stage during a stage race is stupid because 50% of the peloton
isn't even going for the win.

So when some guy crosses the line first, why is so happy?

It's the equivalent of a NASCAR driver celebrating every lap he wins
before the final lap. It's stupid, and assinine.

Magilla

[GoneBeforeMyTime]

"Kyle Legate" <legatek@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6a9n55F35uib5U1@mid.individual.net...
> GoneBeforeMyTime wrote:
>>
>> I enjoy cycling much more from a philosophical standpoint then from a
>> logical standpoint, where helps to me to tolerate all the shortcomings,
>> but for me, cycling will always be an individual sport.
>>
> Is that because nobody wants to ride with you?

Take one of those German sausages and shove it up your butt.

[Geraard Spergen]

MagillaGorilla wrote:
> Geraard Spergen wrote:
>

>> Hell, winning stages is the only thing that counts. Stage racing is
>> stupid except for the fact that every day is a new race. Crossing the
>> line first... that's what bike racing was meant to be.
>
>
> Hey dumbass,
>
> The best racers in a stage race don't even contend for each stage. So
> winning a stage during a stage race is stupid because 50% of the peloton
> isn't even going for the win.

Exactly - that's why stage racing is stupid. Pay attention, you might
get a clue...

>
> So when some guy crosses the line first, why is so happy?

Because he won... the copper's ready to drop...

>
> It's the equivalent of a NASCAR driver celebrating every lap he wins
> before the final lap. It's stupid, and assinine.


I'm pretty sure your analogy sucks, but I don't know anything about
NASCAR except that it's stupid.

[GoneBeforeMyTime]

"MagillaGorilla" <magilla@zoo.com> wrote in message
news:LLydnTiJrPVkdaLVnZ2dnUVZ_szinZ2d@ptd.net...
> GoneBeforeMyTime wrote:
>
>> "Geraard Spergen" <GeraardSpergen@spammagnet.net> wrote in message
>> news:028ad879$0$25015$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
>>
>>>alanstew@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 29, 9:42 am, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroForums.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Riddle me this, is cycling a individual sport or a team sport?
>>>>>
>>>>>Big snip <
>>>>
>>>>Axel Merckx pulled for Floyd Landis in the TdF on the big comeback...
>>>>and a few years before Floyd did the same for Lance.
>>>>
>>>>Patton won some battles, but Eisenhower gets credit for winning the
>>>>war.
>>>>
>>>>Winning stages ISN'T stupid, it's just part of a bigger picture.
>>>>Since they're all there anyway, why not spread around some glory to
>>>>stage winners?
>>>>
>>>>ABS
>>>
>>>Hell, winning stages is the only thing that counts. Stage racing is
>>>stupid except for the fact that every day is a new race. Crossing the
>>>line first... that's what bike racing was meant to be.
>>
>>
>> I enjoy cycling much more from a philosophical standpoint then from a
>> logical standpoint, where helps to me to tolerate all the shortcomings,
>> but for me, cycling will always be an individual sport.
>>
>> GBMT
>
>
> Then you may want to tell the riders who win and thank their teammates
> "for whom my victory wouldn't have been possible" to stop lying.
>
> Magilla

That's often the problem with race reports, why riders complain about
reports on some of the main cycling sites, often they are furious because
the wrong people are getting credit of who did what on what team, which led
to the outcome of the race. I have heard this directly from a number of
riders about race reports.



Cycling as a team sport has some interesting and intriguing aspects, but the
more sophisticated and integrated it becomes as a team sport, the more
watered down it becomes as an individual sport, and thus rankings and
various types of individual stats become more and more meaningless. I would
of liked to have seen Lance and everyone else in one of the tours he won, to
ride it strictly as a indvidual riders tour without teams, every man for
himself, and then see if Lance still wins, and just as interesting would be
who came out on top in the top ten. There are many instances over many years
where riders have won races without the help of a complete team, for
whatever reasons, bad team, missing or riders who didn't finish or riders
like Longo who rode without a team. My point is if cycling were purely an
individual sport without teams, then the rankings would be a better
measurement of a rider's abilities and cycling would be much more accurate
to those who see it through the lens as an individual sport, as sports
writers often write with glaring headlines that Cycling is an individual
sport! Cycling shouldn't be circus acrobatics or a high wire act where one
rider depends on all the others to stay on the wire. I like the concept of
the pure athletic performance, without too many technical maneuvers or team
science, IE-Science of Lance. I want to know who the best man is on an equal
and fair playing field, and teams destroy that concept.



Since racing is won by an individual winner, bike racing should be run as an
individual sport so that the winner, is truly who the winner should be. The
more and more sophisticated and scientific winning by a team becomes, the
more and more vague and meaningless the individual winner becomes. You can't
even get a true winner in the worlds or the Olympics, since this concept of
teamwork or nationalities comes into play. I would like to see a big one day
race like the worlds run as an individual race, where the winner was really
the best rider on the day, and not some sort of relay race. In track, we
know who the best are, except the relay races, but in cycling we don't
really know. That's why I like what Merckx used to do by dominating from the
front, which is pretty much a statement about the fact that he was the best
rider out there, and no team will overshadow his prowess. I know you don't
like Merckx as the Babe Ruth of cycling, but its just an example of what
riders have done to make such statments about who is really king in the
sport.



Indurain did it too on one stage during the tour, making a statement that
he is the best, and breaking the will of the peloton. Luperini did it in
many races between 95 and 98, riding way off the front solo many times
making the concept of winning by teamwork totally irrelevant. Lemond won
pretty much without the help of a good team in 89. That's what makes racing
exciting, the individual winner is truly the valid hero in this respect, and
fans want to identify with who the true winner is, not the team. There is so
much in cycling that often reflects the amazement of the individual effort,
and the winner should reflect the pure highlights of those individual
efforts. When you have a challenge like Mount Hamilton or Mount Evans, you
get the true winner, but if a team is involved as in a mountain stage, you
get the team nursing the leader close to the finish line, and then he climbs
the last little bit. That's not bike racing to me.



GBMT

[Donald Munro]

Kyle Legate wrote:
>> Is that because nobody wants to ride with you?

GoneBeforeMyTime wrote:
> Take one of those German sausages and shove it up your butt.

Yummy, andouillette.

[Paul G.]

On May 30, 9:38 am, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Kyle Legate wrote:
> >> Is that because nobody wants to ride with you?
> GoneBeforeMyTime wrote:
> > Take one of those German sausages and shove it up your butt.
>
> Yummy, andouillette.

No no no. "Andouillette flavored." Big difference. You've heard of
bratwurst? This would be "worst brat".